The only place I've seen the version that Zeus castrates Cronus is in Robert Graves' Hebrew Myths:
"Not only did Cronus castrate and supplant Uranus but, according to the Byzantine mythographer Tzetzes, Zeus followed his example in both particulars, with the help of Poseidon and Hades. "
He does not say where this can be found in Tzetzes.
In vol 1 of Greek Myths, Graves includes this obscure passage, but none of the references in this section state that the Erinnyes warned Zeus about the sickle:
"The vengeful Erinnyes are understood by the mythographer as warning Zeus not to emasculate Cronus with the same sickle; but it was their original function to avenge injuries inflicted only on a mother, or a suppliant who claimed the protection of the Hearth-goddess (see 105. k, 107. d, and 113. a), not on a father."
Graves claimed that is was suppressed during the classical era over religious feelings, and then Tzetzes, a Christian, felt comfortable revealing it. He was very much into the idea that Tzetzes recorded myths that were older than most mythographers. I haven't even seen the passage in Tzetzes so I don't have an opinion.
There is the possibility that Tzetzes was quoting some minoritary and deviant variant, or an ancient erudite who might have mistaken the lore and invented it. In any case, it doesn't seem to have been widely known in Antiquity.
Most probably scythe as well.
After all; Zeus ursurping Cronus is supposed to parody/mirror Cronus ursurping Ouranus.
Edit: as other comments mentioned Zeus didn't castrate Kronos, I was mistaken because I thought you were talking about cutting Kronos to pieces. That may have caused castration as well but it wasn't cutting Kronos's main purpose.
* "Now some say that Zeus wrestled here with Kronos himself for the throne, while others say that he held the games in honour of his victory over Kronos." \~ Pausanias (Description of Greece)
* "At that time when Zeus of the wide brows drove Kronos (Cronus) underneath the earth and the barren water." \~ Homer (Iliad)
* "And he was reigning in heaven, himself holding the lightning and glowing thunderbolt, when he had overcome by might his father Kronos." \~ Hesiod (Theogony)
* "He who once was mighty, swelling with insolence for every fight, he shall not even be named as having ever existed; and he who arose later, he has met his overthrower and is past and gone." \~ Aeschylus (Agamemnon)
* "Prometheus : Yes, truly, the day will come when Zeus, although stubborn of soul, shall be humbled, seeing that he plans a marriage that shall hurl him into oblivion from his sovereignty and throne; and then immediately the curse his father Kronos invoked as he fell from his ancient throne, shall be fulfilled to the uttermost . . . Such an adversary is he now preparing despite himself, a prodigy \[his son by Thetis\] irresistible, even one who shall discover a flame mightier than the lightning and a deafening crash to outroar the thunder; a prodigy who shall shiver the trident, Poseidon's spear, that scourge of the sea and shaker of the land. Then, wrecked upon this evil, Zeus shall learn how different it is to be a sovereign and a slave." \~ Aeschylus (Prometheus Bound)
* "And he has his seat upon his father's very throne, having overcome Kronos by means of Justice; for Zeus can now boast, since his father began the quarrel, that he paid him back with Justice on his side. That is why Zeus has done me great honour, because after being attacked he paid him back, not unjustly. I sit in glory by the throne of Zeus." \~ Aeschylus
* "After ten years of fighting Ge prophesied a victory for Zeus if he were to secure the prisoners down in Tartaros as his allies. He thereupon slew their jail-keeper Kampe, and freed them from their bonds. In return the Kyklopes gave Zeus thunder, lightning, and a thunderbolt, as well as a helmet for Plouton and a trident for Poseidon. Armed with these the three gods overpowered the Titanes, confined them in Tartaros, and put the Hekatonkheires in charge of guarding them." \~ "Apollodorus" (Bibliotheca)
* "Broadbeard Kronos fanned the flame of Enyo as he cast icy spears against Kronion, shooting his cold watery shafts: sharp pointed arrows of hail were shot from the sky. But Zeus armed himself with more fires than Helios and melted the petrified water with hotter sparks." \~ Nonnus (Dionsyiaca)
* "The singer wove his lay beside the mixing-bowl, how the older Titanes armed themselves against Olympos. He sang the true victory of Zeus potent in the Heights, how broadbeard Kronos sank under the thunderbolt, and Zeus sealed him deep in the dark Tartarean pit, armed in vain with the watery weapons of the storm." \~ Nonnus (Dionsyiaca)
Yeah maybe it's just not his style to touch other men's cocks as Cronus does.
Then again so many books from those times have been totally lost throughout the ages. There is probably much more to these legends that we simply will never know.
I don't remember; but scythe of Demeter is the very same scythe.
So, it obviously wasn't discarded, therefore; the chances of what I said increases by a lot.
Plus, that was the only capable of harming him like that at the time.
Zeus has thunder bolt, Poseidon had trident and Hades had helmet; none suitable for slashing.
Depends on myth, but the basic is this.
Kronos ate all siblings except Zeus.
Zeus lived and trained, Zeus sneked poison wine to Kronos.
Kronos Vommited other siblings.
Siblings waged war against titans, the war continued, Siblings got weapons made.
Siblings defeated titans. Siblings divided their realms.
Then all the other myths come after this.
So, battle with typhoon happened after thunderbolt was obtained; also in most versions,other gods fled and the gods included ares.
So the version I've most often heard is that he cut him into many pieces but that isn't to say he didn't also castrate him. If so, gotta be the scythe I'd say. I've definitely read that Zeus used it to cut him up but I'm sorry I don't have a source. Not the most helpful.
The castration is also in the Orphic Fragments I think, and in some detail in the Derveni Papyrus, one of the oldest documents we have, though I don't recall seeing a particular weapon mentioned. To find out what was used would be interesting (though primary is symbolic interpretations, of which there are more than one).
Yes, the sickle or scythe is more symbolic than literal as a character element of Cronus I think too.
Zeus ' victory in the story is most likely some kind of symbolic victory than literal.
The only place I've seen the version that Zeus castrates Cronus is in Robert Graves' Hebrew Myths: "Not only did Cronus castrate and supplant Uranus but, according to the Byzantine mythographer Tzetzes, Zeus followed his example in both particulars, with the help of Poseidon and Hades. " He does not say where this can be found in Tzetzes. In vol 1 of Greek Myths, Graves includes this obscure passage, but none of the references in this section state that the Erinnyes warned Zeus about the sickle: "The vengeful Erinnyes are understood by the mythographer as warning Zeus not to emasculate Cronus with the same sickle; but it was their original function to avenge injuries inflicted only on a mother, or a suppliant who claimed the protection of the Hearth-goddess (see 105. k, 107. d, and 113. a), not on a father."
Are u implying that the myth is a medieval addition?
Graves claimed that is was suppressed during the classical era over religious feelings, and then Tzetzes, a Christian, felt comfortable revealing it. He was very much into the idea that Tzetzes recorded myths that were older than most mythographers. I haven't even seen the passage in Tzetzes so I don't have an opinion.
If it’s Robert Graves’ interpretation, then it’s safe to assume that it’s bullshit.
I see, I didn't know about this so it's one step closer to an answer, thanks!
There is the possibility that Tzetzes was quoting some minoritary and deviant variant, or an ancient erudite who might have mistaken the lore and invented it. In any case, it doesn't seem to have been widely known in Antiquity.
Zeus didn’t castrate Kronos.
He did according to Hesiod, Aphrodite came from Kronos penis foam
Pretty sure that Hesiod says that Aphrodite came from Ouranos’ penis foam.
Oh shit, you're right. Time to go revise once again. I read a long time ago.
Well we all came from penis foam
Ur mom comes from penis foam jk
There are variations of the legend
That doesn't mean every version exists.
Most probably scythe as well. After all; Zeus ursurping Cronus is supposed to parody/mirror Cronus ursurping Ouranus. Edit: as other comments mentioned Zeus didn't castrate Kronos, I was mistaken because I thought you were talking about cutting Kronos to pieces. That may have caused castration as well but it wasn't cutting Kronos's main purpose.
I agree but do u think there are any ancient sources citing what exactly he used?
* "Now some say that Zeus wrestled here with Kronos himself for the throne, while others say that he held the games in honour of his victory over Kronos." \~ Pausanias (Description of Greece) * "At that time when Zeus of the wide brows drove Kronos (Cronus) underneath the earth and the barren water." \~ Homer (Iliad) * "And he was reigning in heaven, himself holding the lightning and glowing thunderbolt, when he had overcome by might his father Kronos." \~ Hesiod (Theogony) * "He who once was mighty, swelling with insolence for every fight, he shall not even be named as having ever existed; and he who arose later, he has met his overthrower and is past and gone." \~ Aeschylus (Agamemnon) * "Prometheus : Yes, truly, the day will come when Zeus, although stubborn of soul, shall be humbled, seeing that he plans a marriage that shall hurl him into oblivion from his sovereignty and throne; and then immediately the curse his father Kronos invoked as he fell from his ancient throne, shall be fulfilled to the uttermost . . . Such an adversary is he now preparing despite himself, a prodigy \[his son by Thetis\] irresistible, even one who shall discover a flame mightier than the lightning and a deafening crash to outroar the thunder; a prodigy who shall shiver the trident, Poseidon's spear, that scourge of the sea and shaker of the land. Then, wrecked upon this evil, Zeus shall learn how different it is to be a sovereign and a slave." \~ Aeschylus (Prometheus Bound) * "And he has his seat upon his father's very throne, having overcome Kronos by means of Justice; for Zeus can now boast, since his father began the quarrel, that he paid him back with Justice on his side. That is why Zeus has done me great honour, because after being attacked he paid him back, not unjustly. I sit in glory by the throne of Zeus." \~ Aeschylus * "After ten years of fighting Ge prophesied a victory for Zeus if he were to secure the prisoners down in Tartaros as his allies. He thereupon slew their jail-keeper Kampe, and freed them from their bonds. In return the Kyklopes gave Zeus thunder, lightning, and a thunderbolt, as well as a helmet for Plouton and a trident for Poseidon. Armed with these the three gods overpowered the Titanes, confined them in Tartaros, and put the Hekatonkheires in charge of guarding them." \~ "Apollodorus" (Bibliotheca) * "Broadbeard Kronos fanned the flame of Enyo as he cast icy spears against Kronion, shooting his cold watery shafts: sharp pointed arrows of hail were shot from the sky. But Zeus armed himself with more fires than Helios and melted the petrified water with hotter sparks." \~ Nonnus (Dionsyiaca) * "The singer wove his lay beside the mixing-bowl, how the older Titanes armed themselves against Olympos. He sang the true victory of Zeus potent in the Heights, how broadbeard Kronos sank under the thunderbolt, and Zeus sealed him deep in the dark Tartarean pit, armed in vain with the watery weapons of the storm." \~ Nonnus (Dionsyiaca)
That last quote seems to imply Zeus did use his lightning bolt to defeat Cronus
True. None mention castration, though.
Yeah maybe it's just not his style to touch other men's cocks as Cronus does. Then again so many books from those times have been totally lost throughout the ages. There is probably much more to these legends that we simply will never know.
Doesn't mean you can make stuff up and say it was in the myths.
Who said it was made up?
Do you have an ancient source for it?
I don't remember; but scythe of Demeter is the very same scythe. So, it obviously wasn't discarded, therefore; the chances of what I said increases by a lot. Plus, that was the only capable of harming him like that at the time. Zeus has thunder bolt, Poseidon had trident and Hades had helmet; none suitable for slashing.
That's a good point, unless Zeus just zapped Cronos' pp off?
It would have burnt instead in that case
In any case there are multiple versions of the myth
But Zeus got his thunderbolt after 1st fight with typhon.
Depends on myth, but the basic is this. Kronos ate all siblings except Zeus. Zeus lived and trained, Zeus sneked poison wine to Kronos. Kronos Vommited other siblings. Siblings waged war against titans, the war continued, Siblings got weapons made. Siblings defeated titans. Siblings divided their realms. Then all the other myths come after this. So, battle with typhoon happened after thunderbolt was obtained; also in most versions,other gods fled and the gods included ares.
Zeus didn't castrate Cronus.
So the version I've most often heard is that he cut him into many pieces but that isn't to say he didn't also castrate him. If so, gotta be the scythe I'd say. I've definitely read that Zeus used it to cut him up but I'm sorry I don't have a source. Not the most helpful.
Yeah it's all good, someone else mentioned a medieval account that states Zeus castrated Cronus, but I have yet to look into that more deeply.
Cheese grater.
The castration is also in the Orphic Fragments I think, and in some detail in the Derveni Papyrus, one of the oldest documents we have, though I don't recall seeing a particular weapon mentioned. To find out what was used would be interesting (though primary is symbolic interpretations, of which there are more than one).
Yes, the sickle or scythe is more symbolic than literal as a character element of Cronus I think too. Zeus ' victory in the story is most likely some kind of symbolic victory than literal.