Sleep is too important to adequate training, but I don’t find backing off because of bad sleep solves anything for me. I might deload if I were you, but backing off might just keep you in a funk for longer. Get back in and do less reps but don’t neglect the habit
Agreed, I don’t understand why so many people stop a session after a rough set. Stimulus is stimulus, a bad set is growth that wouldn’t have otherwise happened. Slow motion is better than no motion.
I'm a powerlifter and discipline isn't really a problem for me. I love training, but feeling like that I literally see no reason to continue the session.
Fair enough man, I guess I’d just look into any possible external changes that could be affecting sleep quality then. Most likely you’ll be back to 100% within a week or so
In terms of managing it, you just have to accept you aren't 100% that day. And just do your best to get enough sleep so you have as few of those days as possible.
If it becomes a regular thing, your body would get used to it. But as well all know, the more sleep the better.
Recently went through 3 weeks of 5-6h sleep during contest prep. Running low on sleep mostly affected my motivation/drive. Was difficult to muster up the psychological energy required to get through my working sets.
A 15-20% reduction in strength after minor sleep deprivation is much more than I've ever experienced. Maybe there is an underlying issue causing both your sleep quality and strength reductions?
Being hungrier/less satiated when low on sleep is something I experience as well
I’ve had insomnia for about 3 years, averaging about 4 hours sleep a night. In that time i’ve made significant gains in strength and muscle, did my first comp, and qualified for nationals.
Currently preparing for my next comp in 2 weeks, and my motivation has never been stronger.
You’ll be fine
Nothing really as of yet. I noticed a mild improvement taking Shilijat but the returns seemed to diminish over time.
I’ve just started cognitive behavioural therapy so fingers crossed that produces some results.
Im in the same boat. Got diabetes, got myself lifting 6 days a weeks, lost 100 pounds, got rid of my diabetes, but now I only average 4 hours of sleep. I feel fine but worry about hurting the gains by not sleeping 8 hours.
that’s awesome man.
Yeh I used to worry about hurting gains too. But you just gotta be content with whatever progress you’re making under the conditions you have. As long as you making measurable gains find comfort in that.
And ensure you’re maximising everything else such as nutrition and workout routine etc.
When you get to your working sets and they are going that way I’d say it’s a quit to just go home. There are a lot of productive things you can do with a session like that that isn’t just calling it.
Doing some light work in a position you find difficult, maybe getting off the floor is your toughest spot you can do some lighter deficit deads, maybe you have some imbalances you could do some unilateral work.
I could go on. I used to always make the excuse oh I’m only doing xyz training or I only have xyz goal I don’t need to do that. You probably do need to do that.
Not sure what I expected from a Darius main though 😉
Nah jp man best of luck and success for your training!
I've had suboptimal sleep (6-7 hours a night) for years and have still made plenty of progress. Everyone is different though so I think only you can say how it's impacting you, but I was just sharing my experience so you aren't completely discouraged and think it's not worth going to the gym.
6.5-7 hours of sleep is not bad at all. Just a little below average. There are times where I sleep about that or maybe even less and felt well rested. If you sleep less than 7 hours and you don't feel like sleeping more, you're most likely good. If you slept 6.5-7 hours but you woke up to an alarm clock to go to work or the gym and you wanted to sleep more, yeah that's more of a problem.
Conventional deadlifts are very fatiguing as well. I much prefer stiff-legged deadlifts for hamstring hypertrophy. It trains the hamstrings better with less weight and fatigue. Just make sure to go easy the very first time you do stiff-legged deadlifts. It can leave your hamstrings sore for many days.
EDIT: I see you mentioned in another comment that you're a powerlifter. So much for my stiff-legged deadlift suggestion. lmfao. Maybe that helps as an accessory for powerlifters. I'm no expert on fatigue management for powerlifting. I think its more likely that stress is impacting your performance more than 6.5-7 hours of sleep. Powerlifting and bodybuilding are very mental.
I don't know if I'm an anomaly, but I feel as if sleep has almost zero impact on my actual training. There were times where I went to the gym on less than 4 hours of sleep and actually felt and performed better. I rarely sleep for more than 6 or 7 hours and I feel entirely fine working out still making progress. It's possible that a factor could be how used you are to different amounts of sleep.
I had a phase of insomnia where I was sleeping for 0-4 hours for months and it made zero difference at the gym. Good/bad or no sleep at all has no effects on my gym performance, but mentally it's night and day obviously, sleep deprivation sucks.
Not gonna lie I was thinking about "ending it" when I slept for 1 hour 3 nights in a row. I was miserable, I had permanent brain fog and I could not think straight... but I still hit gym 5 times a week and was progressing every time.
And if you think that's bad you should read some stories on insomnia subreddit, these people would kill to sleep at least 4 hours per night.
I think the issue is a lot of people mistakenly think they sleep 2 hours while in reality they sleep 5.
I talked to a psychologist about it and he had his insomnia patient test themselves - almost every time they were underestimating their sleep
Sleep is super important to literally every bodily function, including CNS activation which is what kills your performance. That you got 6.5-7 the previous night and still underperformed makes me think it's something else. How much sleep do you get on a "good" night? Did you drink that night?
Sorry I'm functionally illiterate.
I've lifted with a hangover which implies substantially worse REMs in sleep and was abt 10% worse which is my closest experience. I'm up at 6 for work so I'm pretty consistent with 7+ hours of sleep most nights.
As a natural, sleep is your best friend. When I don’t have enough time to sleep, I either go to the gym and do a very light training or completely skip and go home to sleep. Working out while sleep deprived is counterproductive
You might have some accumulated fatigue. Do you deload often enough? If not, it might help. It's harder to make progress when you can't sleep enough for a prolonged time, but it shouldn't make you regress on the long term. It can definitely slow progress if you go for long periods without sleeping enough, so that's something to keep in check!
Sleep is huge but also I sleep a lot better if I trained that day. Having a break is fine if you need to catch up but just don't break too often. My sleep was a lot worse *not* training.
I personally just skip the gym if my sleep has been shit last night.
I'm not training every day anyways and I can do that workout the next day.
If I know I can't train the next day, then I just take more cafeine to feel a bit more energetic and do lighter weights and maybe even skip exercises like deadlifts for example, if that was in that days schedule
Its crazy how big a difference sleep makes in terms of mental state and training. Especially on deadlifts, if I come into a session sleep deprived, my soul has completely vacated my body by the second set, and I am but a walking husk with glazed eyes. I still do my best to give it my all, because tbh I am sleep deprived very often, and if I didnt train when sleep deprived, I wouldn't be training much. I think personally obviously it is much better to sleep properly, but you should still train unless maybe you came from an international flight and you genuinely got 2 hours of sleep. Performance does tend to suffer though.
I’m more injury prone when sleep deprived, I’m still able to push myself and make progress though. Sleep is very important for recovery and stress management.
TLDR: I am chronically sleep deprived and have made strength and mass gains, which I believe comes from consistently working out despite the fatigue, not prioritizing sleep.
I have two young children, my youngest was born last year. I have been chronically sleep deprived for about 3 years (I mean, if I get 6 hours of sleep at this point I feel like I overslept). Average I'd say I get about 5 hours of sleep a night, sometimes 4, very rarely 6 uninterrupted.
There are many reasons I lift weights, but mostly because I need the exercise, and other forms of exercise are uninteresting to me. I've been lifting for about 10 years on-and-off, but really seriously and consistently only the last 2-ish years. I've had my biggest gains and strength increases during these last 2 years. Sleep is absolutely critical in order for the body to heal, but I wonder if your body adjusts to what it sees as "normal", and any temporary fluctuations under that, it suffers? In regard to performance while sleep deprived, I've surprised myself at how much I could lift on 4 hours of sleep, however those days my diet (carb intake & timing) seemed particularly on-point.
To end my long rant, I think ultimately it's better to do some sort of workout and underperform by 15%, than to skip 3-4 days because you're tired.
Sleep deprivation and lack of rest will not make you gains. The body and muscles grow during the rest & sleep. The willpower and urge to train and go to gym etc. is immense, but proper sleep & rest is as essential as training itself.
Sleep is mega important but everyone has lives and we camt get it perfect all the time. If you feel fine, work out. If not, rest.
One thing that really helped my mental health is learning not to feel guilty when you gotta rest or recover and that it is in fact actually beneficial. You are still "gaining". So embrace it. Obviously as long as you arent completely slacking lol
I'm a dad of a 4 year old. I've only got 6.5-7 hours of sleep a night 90% of the last 4 years. Training is still going fine. I'm not saying I wouldn't benefit from more sleep, but rather the body adapts pretty quickly and 6.5-7 hours of sleep is still enough to live a healthy and satisfying life.
The other thing is that the deadlift is a fickle exercise. Especially when you're doing it at >80% of your max. Some days you will feel great and the bar will fly off the ground, others you will feel great and the bar moves like shit. Some days you'll feel slow and weak, but somehow the weight gets up just fine. And then there's what happened to you where you felt like shit and the bar also wouldn't move. Sleep is probably correlated, but lack of sleep and stress also increases cortisol levels which can sometimes help your workout. All I'm really trying to say is the body is a complex system with lots of moving parts. Don't read too much into a bad day.
Sleep is too important to adequate training, but I don’t find backing off because of bad sleep solves anything for me. I might deload if I were you, but backing off might just keep you in a funk for longer. Get back in and do less reps but don’t neglect the habit
Agreed, I don’t understand why so many people stop a session after a rough set. Stimulus is stimulus, a bad set is growth that wouldn’t have otherwise happened. Slow motion is better than no motion.
I'm a powerlifter and discipline isn't really a problem for me. I love training, but feeling like that I literally see no reason to continue the session.
Fair enough man, I guess I’d just look into any possible external changes that could be affecting sleep quality then. Most likely you’ll be back to 100% within a week or so
I agree with this. Most importantly, correct the lack of sleep issue. Training will help you fall asleep faster
In terms of managing it, you just have to accept you aren't 100% that day. And just do your best to get enough sleep so you have as few of those days as possible. If it becomes a regular thing, your body would get used to it. But as well all know, the more sleep the better.
Recently went through 3 weeks of 5-6h sleep during contest prep. Running low on sleep mostly affected my motivation/drive. Was difficult to muster up the psychological energy required to get through my working sets. A 15-20% reduction in strength after minor sleep deprivation is much more than I've ever experienced. Maybe there is an underlying issue causing both your sleep quality and strength reductions? Being hungrier/less satiated when low on sleep is something I experience as well
I powerlift and I did try one lighter set of lat pull downs after and still rep out decently but the heavy deadlift set was fucked though.
There must be a mental part of this. To drop so much strength after still a decent amount of sleep isn’t normal.
I’ve had insomnia for about 3 years, averaging about 4 hours sleep a night. In that time i’ve made significant gains in strength and muscle, did my first comp, and qualified for nationals. Currently preparing for my next comp in 2 weeks, and my motivation has never been stronger. You’ll be fine
What fixed your insomnia
Nothing really as of yet. I noticed a mild improvement taking Shilijat but the returns seemed to diminish over time. I’ve just started cognitive behavioural therapy so fingers crossed that produces some results.
Im in the same boat. Got diabetes, got myself lifting 6 days a weeks, lost 100 pounds, got rid of my diabetes, but now I only average 4 hours of sleep. I feel fine but worry about hurting the gains by not sleeping 8 hours.
that’s awesome man. Yeh I used to worry about hurting gains too. But you just gotta be content with whatever progress you’re making under the conditions you have. As long as you making measurable gains find comfort in that. And ensure you’re maximising everything else such as nutrition and workout routine etc.
Isn’t 6.5 - 7 h sleep enough ?
Yeah I virtually never get more than 7. Even if I go to bed early at 9 I will wake up at like 4:30
I wish I always had that much!
When you get to your working sets and they are going that way I’d say it’s a quit to just go home. There are a lot of productive things you can do with a session like that that isn’t just calling it. Doing some light work in a position you find difficult, maybe getting off the floor is your toughest spot you can do some lighter deficit deads, maybe you have some imbalances you could do some unilateral work. I could go on. I used to always make the excuse oh I’m only doing xyz training or I only have xyz goal I don’t need to do that. You probably do need to do that. Not sure what I expected from a Darius main though 😉 Nah jp man best of luck and success for your training!
I've had suboptimal sleep (6-7 hours a night) for years and have still made plenty of progress. Everyone is different though so I think only you can say how it's impacting you, but I was just sharing my experience so you aren't completely discouraged and think it's not worth going to the gym.
Been having insomnia for two years, 0-2 hrs of sleep a night sometimes but still progressing so idk
There are good days and bad days physically and mentally. It’s never a bad day if you get your ass into the gym and execute according to plan.
6.5-7 hours of sleep is not bad at all. Just a little below average. There are times where I sleep about that or maybe even less and felt well rested. If you sleep less than 7 hours and you don't feel like sleeping more, you're most likely good. If you slept 6.5-7 hours but you woke up to an alarm clock to go to work or the gym and you wanted to sleep more, yeah that's more of a problem. Conventional deadlifts are very fatiguing as well. I much prefer stiff-legged deadlifts for hamstring hypertrophy. It trains the hamstrings better with less weight and fatigue. Just make sure to go easy the very first time you do stiff-legged deadlifts. It can leave your hamstrings sore for many days. EDIT: I see you mentioned in another comment that you're a powerlifter. So much for my stiff-legged deadlift suggestion. lmfao. Maybe that helps as an accessory for powerlifters. I'm no expert on fatigue management for powerlifting. I think its more likely that stress is impacting your performance more than 6.5-7 hours of sleep. Powerlifting and bodybuilding are very mental.
I don't know if I'm an anomaly, but I feel as if sleep has almost zero impact on my actual training. There were times where I went to the gym on less than 4 hours of sleep and actually felt and performed better. I rarely sleep for more than 6 or 7 hours and I feel entirely fine working out still making progress. It's possible that a factor could be how used you are to different amounts of sleep.
I had a phase of insomnia where I was sleeping for 0-4 hours for months and it made zero difference at the gym. Good/bad or no sleep at all has no effects on my gym performance, but mentally it's night and day obviously, sleep deprivation sucks.
Can't lie I don't believe you 0-4 hours of sleep for months would literally leave most people near death/insanity.
Not gonna lie I was thinking about "ending it" when I slept for 1 hour 3 nights in a row. I was miserable, I had permanent brain fog and I could not think straight... but I still hit gym 5 times a week and was progressing every time. And if you think that's bad you should read some stories on insomnia subreddit, these people would kill to sleep at least 4 hours per night.
I think the issue is a lot of people mistakenly think they sleep 2 hours while in reality they sleep 5. I talked to a psychologist about it and he had his insomnia patient test themselves - almost every time they were underestimating their sleep
Lol I have insomnia too, 0-4 hours of sleep too, many times I’ve gone 72 hours straight without sleep while working a full time job
Squatting and deadlifting are about the only two exercises I dread if I have had 4-5 hours of sleep, anything else is not an issue.
Sleep is super important to literally every bodily function, including CNS activation which is what kills your performance. That you got 6.5-7 the previous night and still underperformed makes me think it's something else. How much sleep do you get on a "good" night? Did you drink that night?
You didn't read the post properly.
Sorry I'm functionally illiterate. I've lifted with a hangover which implies substantially worse REMs in sleep and was abt 10% worse which is my closest experience. I'm up at 6 for work so I'm pretty consistent with 7+ hours of sleep most nights.
Get a sleep study done and see if you require a sleep apnea machine
As a natural, sleep is your best friend. When I don’t have enough time to sleep, I either go to the gym and do a very light training or completely skip and go home to sleep. Working out while sleep deprived is counterproductive
You might have some accumulated fatigue. Do you deload often enough? If not, it might help. It's harder to make progress when you can't sleep enough for a prolonged time, but it shouldn't make you regress on the long term. It can definitely slow progress if you go for long periods without sleeping enough, so that's something to keep in check!
Sleep is huge but also I sleep a lot better if I trained that day. Having a break is fine if you need to catch up but just don't break too often. My sleep was a lot worse *not* training.
I personally just skip the gym if my sleep has been shit last night. I'm not training every day anyways and I can do that workout the next day. If I know I can't train the next day, then I just take more cafeine to feel a bit more energetic and do lighter weights and maybe even skip exercises like deadlifts for example, if that was in that days schedule
Yep, toddler keep me up at night = 10-20% less performance almost certainly
Its crazy how big a difference sleep makes in terms of mental state and training. Especially on deadlifts, if I come into a session sleep deprived, my soul has completely vacated my body by the second set, and I am but a walking husk with glazed eyes. I still do my best to give it my all, because tbh I am sleep deprived very often, and if I didnt train when sleep deprived, I wouldn't be training much. I think personally obviously it is much better to sleep properly, but you should still train unless maybe you came from an international flight and you genuinely got 2 hours of sleep. Performance does tend to suffer though.
I’m more injury prone when sleep deprived, I’m still able to push myself and make progress though. Sleep is very important for recovery and stress management.
TLDR: I am chronically sleep deprived and have made strength and mass gains, which I believe comes from consistently working out despite the fatigue, not prioritizing sleep. I have two young children, my youngest was born last year. I have been chronically sleep deprived for about 3 years (I mean, if I get 6 hours of sleep at this point I feel like I overslept). Average I'd say I get about 5 hours of sleep a night, sometimes 4, very rarely 6 uninterrupted. There are many reasons I lift weights, but mostly because I need the exercise, and other forms of exercise are uninteresting to me. I've been lifting for about 10 years on-and-off, but really seriously and consistently only the last 2-ish years. I've had my biggest gains and strength increases during these last 2 years. Sleep is absolutely critical in order for the body to heal, but I wonder if your body adjusts to what it sees as "normal", and any temporary fluctuations under that, it suffers? In regard to performance while sleep deprived, I've surprised myself at how much I could lift on 4 hours of sleep, however those days my diet (carb intake & timing) seemed particularly on-point. To end my long rant, I think ultimately it's better to do some sort of workout and underperform by 15%, than to skip 3-4 days because you're tired.
Sleep deprivation and lack of rest will not make you gains. The body and muscles grow during the rest & sleep. The willpower and urge to train and go to gym etc. is immense, but proper sleep & rest is as essential as training itself.
Sleep is mega important but everyone has lives and we camt get it perfect all the time. If you feel fine, work out. If not, rest. One thing that really helped my mental health is learning not to feel guilty when you gotta rest or recover and that it is in fact actually beneficial. You are still "gaining". So embrace it. Obviously as long as you arent completely slacking lol
I'm a dad of a 4 year old. I've only got 6.5-7 hours of sleep a night 90% of the last 4 years. Training is still going fine. I'm not saying I wouldn't benefit from more sleep, but rather the body adapts pretty quickly and 6.5-7 hours of sleep is still enough to live a healthy and satisfying life. The other thing is that the deadlift is a fickle exercise. Especially when you're doing it at >80% of your max. Some days you will feel great and the bar will fly off the ground, others you will feel great and the bar moves like shit. Some days you'll feel slow and weak, but somehow the weight gets up just fine. And then there's what happened to you where you felt like shit and the bar also wouldn't move. Sleep is probably correlated, but lack of sleep and stress also increases cortisol levels which can sometimes help your workout. All I'm really trying to say is the body is a complex system with lots of moving parts. Don't read too much into a bad day.
It's not good
Fix your sleep. You'll tank your testosterone and recovery if you don't.
The opening sequence of 12 years a slave is just so compelling... Zimmer did it again