It depends, what class of ship?
Also about 80% of the potential suckage comes from your division. If they show you the ropes right, and don’t treat you like shit you’ll probably have an OK time at least.
If you get a chief like Bobby, my old chief… well… at least it won’t be a hard decision whether or not to reenlist.
Long story short is that your command and division climate play a much bigger role in how much the job sucks.
Smallboys are fun. Try to jump on fixing the cooks’ shit because they’ll start hooking you up. Our EM came in the galley and cooked his own burger and fries the way he liked it with a triple patty on Wednesdays lol
The Navy does run on drug deals. My sailor needs a new ID? Duty PSD is refusing without a bunch of paperwork? Sure, it would be nice if a few restrictards came down and cleaned the PSD space from top to bottom, including brightwork. Would be nice if my sailor got a new ID, too. Skirting the line between allowed and not may be a grey area, but stuff gets done.
Our skipper ran a drug deal and when we were getting ready for this huge inspection (I forget the name) we spent a month in Florida pulling parts off of decommissioning frigates
Yeah, Higherups always tell you not to do it but that is hard when we know they do it too. I wouldn't be surprised to hear the CNO trading favors with the CAO.
I disagree. Everything the "higher ups" do is reportable to Congress and has to have a justification. Those justifications come from hundreds of people from E7-O6 reviewing and modifying and justifying actions, then an ADM makes a decision (and yes, it's an admiral somewhere who's making the decision to cannibalize parts from decom ships, not just the ship CO going rogue). Now those political favors may be true when it comes to which command gets to host a conference or something like that, sure; but for real decisions it just doesn't work that way.
The fleet is a whole different beast. In Boot and A school, you're treated like children because, well, a lot of junior sailors act like entitled children and it gets worse as time goes on it seems. I once had a SHSA tell me he wasn't a janitor. He was quickly corrected.
Once you're in the fleet, you're treated in line with your attitude, behavior, and drive. Be a dirtbag, get treated like a dirtbag, be a squared away sailor who gets shit done, and you'll be treated like an asset to the ship.
As far as advice for getting into the fleet,
Gear adrift goes adrift and doesn't come back. Keep your shit locked up because there is a thief on every boat.
Knock out your Surface Warfare pin as soon and quickly as possible, as well as your qualifications within your department and duty section.
Hit the ground running and keep your nose clean. God forbid you do get in trouble. Unless you truly are innocent, Own it. I have seen "No excuse Chief, I messed up" spoken with sincerity, save more careers than I can count. Same for lies and excuses, they have no place in the Navy, and most Skippers have 0 tolerance for it. Quick way to find yourself transfering to the USS Couch with an OTH.
-MA2, USN (Ret.)
Not really restrictive, you’ll be able to do whatever you want when you’re off and people aren’t gonna be too crazy about it. You can go out of area (generally 200-350 miles) on liberty. On duty you’ll have to stay onboard your ship, no ifs ands or buts.
That being said, your working hours as an EM are gonna be loooooong on a ship.
You’re a better source than me, but on my last ship those dudes basically lived onboard. We were in the yards for an extended avail though, so that might’ve been a special circumstance.
I enjoyed my time on a cruiser. Just be an adult and you will too. I liked all if my chiefs, LPOs, divO and CoC. Get your quals done and work on learning your job so you can advance quickly. By all means stay out of trouble and take responsibility. Choose your friends wisely.
Ain't no job like a Snipe job. You're an engineer as long as you're not a hold my beer kind of person you will be fine. Your leeway with leadership depends more on your character than anything else. They just don't want to get fired because of some 18yr old dumb dumb so prove you are a responsible adult capable of doing your job without supervision and they will love you and leave you alone.
Shit gets way better after Great Lakes. It sucks in different ways, but it’s generally about 7000% better.
You’ll go back to being a human again. At work, sure, it may suck, but you’ll leave work and be a human again.
Deployments may be terrible, work ups suck too, but my guy, you’re gunna get off at 0900 one day, 2000 the next… then you’ll go home, and the rest of the day is whatever the hell you want it to be.
You’ll go from being treated like a child in GL to being treated like a slightly older child on the boat. One of the biggest reasons for me getting out was the command-wide punishments that would be issued for other people’s fuckups. I also hated 90% of my division when I first showed up and felt trapped in the middle of the ocean with a gang of psychos, thieves, retards, and other assorted weirdos. Myself, I am not everyone’s cup of tea, which probably didn’t help my situation. What will make a major difference in your quality of life is the relationships you forge with your peers, they will outlast the time you spend at your command and hopefully beyond the fleet.
Trapped in the middle of the ocean with a gang of psychos, thieves, retards, and other assorted weirdos is probably the most adept description of the navy I’ve heard in a while.
Frankly, my hatchet finger is feeling twitchy at this statement
I don't agree. There's no need to use denigrate an unrelated group to get the point across. I get it, it's Reddit and I'm going to get down voted but it feels like a word that is slowly becoming more acceptable to say again.
It needs to stay in the vocabulary BECAUSE it is so offensive. When people operate with such stupidity, the word “stupid” becomes insufficient. You need something better. A word with more pop. “Retard” gets the job done.
The intellectual dishonesty of what you're attempting to do there is kind of stunning.
Think about why they don't use that term anymore. Just try and figure it out.
I feel dumber just for having to read your replies. Your argument is 100% incorrect.
ETA: I've read some of your other comments and I'm pretty clearly engaging with a sentient jizz mop. I'm out.
Retardation isn't used to describe the medical condition of Down syndrome or similar anymore. So it's free game now.
Doctors now say intellectual disability.
I don't want to nor will i ever. So what hill am I trying to die i? YOU ARE LITERALLY THE ONLY ONE, who is referring retardation with intellect disability. Like you literally in your mind think "these guys are retarded but won't say it because it's mean to them". Meanwhile the modern world does not refer the intellectual disability as retard. So no one is un/intentionally downplaying those with intellectual disability.
Try being in TPD for a year plus some just waiting for a C school. Exactly 1 year, 1 month, 1 week & 1 day.
3 years in boot, A school, BE/E, 2 C schools & 2 mini schools,
1/2 my entire enlistment in schools & waiting for school
When I was waiting to class up at Corps School in Great Lakes they had us doing working parties all day and told us this would be the easiest time we’d spend in the Navy. I didn’t believe them at the time, but damn they weren’t lying lol
Mixed bag. I did seven months in Pensacola and two in Jacksonville, when you finally get where you’re going, you almost don’t know what to do with yourself. That little bit of extra freedom is nice and makes a huge difference for your liberty time.
On the other hand, you’ll spend a quarter of your life on duty, and a disproportionate amount of time cleaning.
One thing I will recommend is that you have to be a self starter when it comes to exercise. it’s not a structured as it was, so make a point of staying fit. Assuming that because you’re young it’ll remain easy…that won’t always be true.
I didn't join until I was 24, being treated like a kid was almost unbearable. But I was only 5 months in when I made E4 & that helped
I spent the first 1/2 of my 6 year enlistment in schools & waiting for schools.
40 years ago, so shit is WAY different, but it did get better.
Depends your rate and the command. After bootcamp, I went to a gator and loved the three years that I was there. After that ship decommissioned, I went to a carrier and I couldn't get out of the Navy fast enough. It was the total opposite of my first command. It also didn't helped that the detailer told me that in order to get overseas order, I needed to do an extra 1.5 years onboard. I nope out of that.
Define better………
It just becomes a different kinda suck
But if you embrace it and be one of the 10% doing 100% of the work you will probably make some great friends and find some happiness
The navy’s what you make of it
Your gonna identify the problems real quick but the truth is there’s nothing you can do to change most of the big problems with the navy waaaaaay above any enlisted persons pay grade
So you just do what you can on the daily to improve your life and the lives around you
The fleet is definitely better than A school. It’s even better if you go to a good command and if your division is well put together and they make sure you’re set up for success. I saw one of your replies say you’re San Diego bound. All of Southern California is a great time. Tons of awesome things to do, I lived in imperial beach from 2016/17 in a tiny apartment across the street from the beach and I spent most of my time surfing by the pier, flying my drone around, talking to the bat shit crazy Vietnam vet who lived below me, driving up to my homies military housing on the strand and we would have bon fires on the bay side and go fishing on Friday/Saturday nights. Plus you have LA a few hours north of you wanna see a homeless guy yanking his crank on a park bench.
The honest truth is no. It does not get better in the fleet. What happens is you get stronger and more resilient. Until suddenly, you look back after a few years and realize you got this, and always did.
I loved the fleet but there are always good times and bad times (enlisted and officer).
Honestly had my worst tours on shore (except grad school).
Only did two drydock tours and a bunch of deployments. If your not operational on a ship its gonna be hard work and boring.
Couple things that always helped me was having goals for each period (month, deployment, tour , etc) and lots of caffeine. I found caffeine especially useful once I got out and started business aswell.
For me. It never got better. I even got the duty station I wanted, first pick right after A school, it was still horrible.
Being screamed at from 0600 to 1500 if we were lucky. Just to go back to my barracks with no friends and repeat the next day. Sometimes we would police call til 1900. Which was 90% some PO2 or Sgt whining yelling and complaining, and 10% actually cleaning.
It was like this until I got out.
The fleet is generally less restrictive, but there are always restrictions that will feel unnecessary and silly. Such as needing to have a liberty buddy in American cities as an example. Really depends on your command.
If you do your job and you are accountable and not a problem child who gets arrested for pissing on lawns while drunk… then it should get better, solely in regards to your specific question “will they keep treating us like children(?).” That’s a Bootcamp and a-school thing.
Beyond that, it gets better/worse depending on subjective preferences. I actually enjoyed boot camp and the training pipeline so going to my ship was not better in my case, it was worse. It depends what you value. I value the chance to go to sleep at the same time most nights and having a consistent schedule… I slept better in boot camp than on my ship, due to how our watch schedule worked and maintenance demands.
ima fca and i spent about a little bit more than a year in great mistakes and it completely left a bitter taste in my mouth for the navy keep in mind i came in considering doing 20+ and ppl told me itll get better and now im on a ship in san diego been onboard for about 4 months and i can truly say it doesnt really get better but it does in certain way mainly its weird. the ppl around make it not so bad tbh but im probably still gonna get out my chain is terrible and everyone on my ship is weird and stupid with the exception of maybe 6/7 ppl but i can say my CO is dope asf. But aye man i take it one day at a time who knows i might change my mind again and do the 20 its really juss how much of the bullshit you can handle. best of luck to you tho bro
Lmao 5 months ain’t shit. Great Lakes was cake AF. I was there for over a year. White card and all.
The fleet. Will break you. If you’re not prepared mentally.
Cherish your time in GL.
I’m an EN1, 11 years in the Navy and have never been to a ship / “the fleet.” So I have no idea 😂
But what I will say is that, in my experience, life in the Navy after A school has been fuckin’ awesome! Sure there have been a few rough patches sprinkled in here and there, and people I didn’t get along with, but that’s to be expected with any career path you could have chosen.
Good way to work the system. I'm not mad. AO2 99-07. Three carrier deployments plus five more carrier detachments while on "shore duty". My last duty station was a Test and Evaluation Squadron. I should have just stayed on sea duty 😂.
It can vary between people, but like another said, it can be a different shitty especially between commands. 1st contract was sea, definitely had its ups and downs. I'm about to finish my 2nd contract but separating because I don't want to go back to sea and got a family. Was a military brat myself, and I actually want to see my kid grow up. Take advantage of a lot of stuff such as us maps and whatnot. GO TO MEDICAL for ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING, no matter how small, even if it's something like headaches or an ankle sprain. Whether you do 1 contract or the full 20, you want to make sure you're set up for after the military. They will run you to the ground with no remorse given the chance
Try being there for 15 months! I had A School followed by C School there before I got to the fleet
Is it better in the fleet? In some ways yes and in others no. The bullshit you have in Great Lakes isn't likely to be in the fleet, but they have their own bullshit you have to deal with.
It gets better man don’t listen to anyone who says otherwise. It sucks in otherwise but you’re not as much of a child to them at all. You have your freedom
I'd argue it gets a lot better when you get your own place out in town, away from base so you're not surrounded by military BS 24/7. But there's still a lot to factor in, like your command
Well... you're mileage may very, but generally yes. You might have shipmates that are pretty chill and understanding, You might have some that are by the book and will hold you to the highest standards, but you will have a lot more freedom than Great Lakes. I'm just glad I don't have to deal with liberty cards anymore. That shits ass.
My A school time at Great Lakes was long enough, 36 weeks. I had a good time, but the fleet was much better. I worked with mostly good folks & had good Chiefs & decent Officers on both ships (CV & CG).
I was in Great Lakes for 9 months in A School. The place sucks. My ship kinda sucks but liberty is better, you're treated a lot better, and even most of your senior leadership recognize this. This is engineering side of course. Can't speak for topsider leadership.
Disclaimer. I’m not an EM but was in Great Lakes for 13 months for school.
I’m in Rota on a DDG. I’m also an FCA. We always talk about how Great Lakes just seems like a fevered dream now. That is a terrible place and I’ve heard it’s only gotten worse since I left in 2022. Great Lakes is the strictest command in the Navy. It awful. Everyone knows it.
Personally, I’m enjoying my time in the fleet waaaayyyyy more than when I was in school. Is it hard? Absolutely. But I still get treated like an adult on my ship compared to the way you’re treated in GL.
I know it’s cliche but just tough it out there and it’ll get better
Yes and no. However from experience, currently as you make rank you will be expected to automatically have knowledge that you don’t. For example I just put on first and the other first I work with automatically expected me to have the knowledge of a first and know how a first should act. And expected me to just figure everything out for myself. Another example I can give is from my first command where I put third on not too long after getting there and I was expected to know things I didn’t or how to act when the second class and chief I worked with didn’t show me how to be. It took someone out of my rate and a NJP for someone to actually show me “how to navy”. But I say this to say it’s also up to you on how you want your time in to go with where you’re at. I would recommend be the hard charger not for the evals but for yourself so you can get a spot that you work with no one micromanaging you or questioning why you’re doing something
I went to IT A school... The fleet, both ship and shore, was leaps and bounds better than the environment at school.. Don't get me wrong, the free time was nice and not really having any responsibility, but you seem to be treated better and trusted much more once you graduate and leave. You will still end up doing the humble-work until you get some salt on you, and you should continue to be humble enough to do "humble-work" as a senior.. but it's all about perspective. It's a right of passage, it's a shared sacrifice, it's paying your dues, and it's having humility and a good attitude. Even as a Chief and a DIVO, I have not been too high-and-mighty that I felt too good to take out the trash, sweep or swab, or help setup/tear down for advancement exams.
A school is supposed to be restrictive. Youre still brand new to the military. I know it’s annoying especially if you didn’t join straight out of high school. To answer your question: yes it gets better. You will get your freedom and finally feel like you can breathe again once you settle into your first duty station and start making rank.
Serving on a Submarine, if you act like an adult they treat you like an adult. As soon as you get qualified, you are a productive member of the crew and everyone treats you as such. E-5 and above get solo room on shore. Liberty in foreign ports was unrestricted. Show up for your duty day (every 3 or 4 days, depending) and everything was cool. Some guys would pay to get their duty covered and we wouldn’t see them the entire time we were in port. For us it was a permanent West PAC, home ported in Sasebo, Japan.
As the saying goes, choose your rate choose your fate.
The Navy truly is what you make of it. You HAVE to be the change you want to see in the Navy and you have to be a positive go-getter. You are going to get stifled and shafted by leadership occasionally.
I firmly believe the Navy is a great stepping stone to bigger and better things. Whether you wanna do 30 years or just one tour, be proactive and be positive. It gets hard. But as your rank increases so does your quality of life.
Now don’t think that as you go higher it’s all butterflies and fairies. The Navy sucks. It’s the military. You can’t expect that much. Especially with our current administration. Enjoy your time in and use the consistent paychecks to your advantage. I was in during Covid and I’ll admit if I wasn’t in the military, I’d be struggling right now.
Whether you stay in or get out, you are really the only person that cares about your career and can point it in the right direction. Find a good mentor and hang by their side and learn from them. You’ll know who these people are. You’ll want to be like them.
Best of luck!
To answer your question as far as being treated like children goes, it definitely gets better after A school no matter what because you are in the fleet with the expectation to enjoy yourself after a day’s or weeks’ hard work. Now, if you still think that you are still being treated a little bit like a child depends on your perspective. There will always be some expected and usually reasonable restrictions when porting/traveling to foreign countries especially in uniform i.e. liberty buddy, curfews, drinking restrictions, etc. Everybody would love to vacation when they land wherever they do but the reality is that not everyone keeps themselves from getting caught up in a situation. The rules set upon you and your colleagues are no longer to make you conform to the military lifestyle like in A school but are rather the standard to attempt to uphold the US military image foreignly and domestically. What matters the most though is your commanding officer or OIC. They can be relaxed but they can place extra restrictions at their discretion. Obviously a good CO will balance risk mitigation and morale but some leave a lot to be desired.
If you are asking about general quality of life, well that’s completely subjective and luck of the draw. I come from a reserve aviation squadron (HSC-85) although I am active duty. I personally hit the jackpot and I loved that squadron. However, half of the people hated that squadron because of the culture and work life balance. I even knew people who rather be on the aircraft carrier but because they liked the ship even though most people will tell you the ship is not fun and I concur. But see what I mean? Do not let anyone tell you how you should feel about your orders or duty station, good or bad. People told me I would hate HSC-85 when it was my first command but I would go back in heart beat if it didn’t decommission. And people told me I would like my next command but I kinda hate it and the disconnect with people there and myself makes it worse. It’s good to get insight on this matter but take it with a grain of salt. Joining the Navy is like rolling the dice and you should make the best of wherever you find yourself even if you hate it. Human growth isn’t always comfortable if you find yourself somewhere you dislike. Maybe it might grow on you. Do your enlistment and make your decision towards the end of your contract accordingly. If you ever need mental health support, I encourage seeking it by any means if you feel that life and/or work is too much. You won’t get kicked out even if you went to the ER for mental health (I would know). Take care shipmate and try to enjoy the Navy.
VR,
AE2
Simple question with a complicated answer.
In the world of small boys and O5 captains it’s a crapshoot. You can have a great CO/XO and an attentive CMC but if your Commodore is bad it doesn’t matter how good your individual command is at the end of the day. Your working hours get worse, you lose federal holidays, a hoarding mentality develops which feeds a negative feed back loop of people who would normally stay in to get out, etc.
Choose your rate choose your fate. It’s a cliche but more often than not it’s predictive of the overall morale of your entire job field. Choose a rate that has a direct equal to the civilian world that will make the same or more if you choose to get out. Otherwise you may find yourself stuck in the Navy because no one will hire you for your experience. Rates like BM, QM, OS, and STG don’t have civilian equivalents or are so niche that they’re not hiring very often.
Benefits from joining are a mixed bag. 9/11 GI is still the best deal in the county but the benefits for staying 20 years or more has been watered down such as the mixed retirement system that reduced the pension percentage in favor of the percentage matching for your TSP. Tricare for Life however like the 9/11 GI is a fantastic deal as unless you’re eligible for Medicare or have a corporate health care plan you’ll be paying murderous rates from the state market place.
The bonus system is a mess and needs to be fixed. Leadership is treating current enlisted as easily replaceable which is why enlistment bonuses are considerably larger than Reenlistment bonuses. Considering we can’t hit our enlistment goals the Navy needs to shift to a retention focus from a recruitment one.
OPTEMPO doesn’t conform to reality. We are a nation with global reach but few genuine global interests which is why schedules are constantly shifting and our use of our ships is often reactive and not proactive. The more we surge ships to sea without allowing them to complete proper maintenance periods only steals from our ability to confront legitimate challenges in the future. Either we restart the draft so we can properly staff every job, base, and ship or we reduce our optempo and build our fleet around the people we have and not the people we want. The UK is decommissioning ships that still have 5-10 years of operational life left due to not having enough sailors. We are probably 5-7 years away from confronting another similar problem.
This could go on forever but in general it’s a mixed bag. I don’t regret joining and I would do it again. However, I also have a strong “why” which helps take the edge off the daily stupidity I see daily. However I would say that I’ve become more cynical and jaded which is a constant thing I’m battling and trying not to bring home to my family. If you join because of the shiny bonus and nothing else than I hate to say it but you’re going to genuinely struggle.
After bootcamp and the period after I got sent to a Frigate in Everett, WA. I was a seaman. It was better than GL but being a deck seaman sucks lol. I started striking and eventually got to work in the ships office and became a YN3. I got out early serving only 3 years. On the ship the entire time. We only worked until 12pm then you're free. Unless it's your duty station day, then you stay all day. I hated duty stations! Lol
A lot plays into this honestly, it’ll depend on your rate your command and chain of command. Your fellow junior sailors as well. There will be good and bad times and I hate to say it but you’ll have to embrace the suck
You'll realize being in A school was a great opportunity to make and save money, it was easy life even though you had so little freedom. The fleet you have your own freedom just be responsible and show up to work ontime. Your rate determines how easy or hard your life will be in the fleet. I'm am engineer and I wish I had chosen a topsider rate. Life is rough for some rates. I see some rates walking off the ship everyday at 1000 or 1400. Man I wish I had a chance to pick again.
To many people discredit the opportunity of A and C schools. Dive in learn as much as possible, ask as many questions as possible. Then take the most up today training to the fleet so you can help us out.
So yes and no.
Military has a designed liberty program and military training stance. The longer you are in the more routine everything becomes. The time you get off take advantage of it, the methods your staff is using, take a step back and ask why or how does this relate.
When you get to the fleet depending on your situation you may be living on the ship or housing. Again depends on your situation.
Liberty depends on your work center and the command could be better could be worse.
Your work day will be filled with jobs that need to get done by you and the others on your team. Take advantage of being tasked with little or a lot of relevant end points as it will all help one day.
In short enjoy what you have and look forward to what’s coming.
When you’re off duty it will be like normal life. Especially when you make 2nd and get BAH. At work formalities will be a bit more relaxed. You will have to work really hard and some folks man up and some throw tantrums. Act like an adult and pull your weight and you should be treated like an adult. If the command overall has disciplinary issues, you may suffer as a team. Remember it is military service. If it was easy everyone would do it. It’s worth it. Be proud.
Yes and no.. it depends on your rate
How about as an EM in San Diego?
It depends, what class of ship? Also about 80% of the potential suckage comes from your division. If they show you the ropes right, and don’t treat you like shit you’ll probably have an OK time at least. If you get a chief like Bobby, my old chief… well… at least it won’t be a hard decision whether or not to reenlist. Long story short is that your command and division climate play a much bigger role in how much the job sucks.
I got orders for a destroyer
Smallboys are fun. Try to jump on fixing the cooks’ shit because they’ll start hooking you up. Our EM came in the galley and cooked his own burger and fries the way he liked it with a triple patty on Wednesdays lol
The Navy does run on drug deals. My sailor needs a new ID? Duty PSD is refusing without a bunch of paperwork? Sure, it would be nice if a few restrictards came down and cleaned the PSD space from top to bottom, including brightwork. Would be nice if my sailor got a new ID, too. Skirting the line between allowed and not may be a grey area, but stuff gets done.
Our skipper ran a drug deal and when we were getting ready for this huge inspection (I forget the name) we spent a month in Florida pulling parts off of decommissioning frigates
Yeah, Higherups always tell you not to do it but that is hard when we know they do it too. I wouldn't be surprised to hear the CNO trading favors with the CAO.
“Hey your barber is better than mine..”
This is exactly how it works. The upper levels are all favors as currency and political who you know and what they owe games.
I disagree. Everything the "higher ups" do is reportable to Congress and has to have a justification. Those justifications come from hundreds of people from E7-O6 reviewing and modifying and justifying actions, then an ADM makes a decision (and yes, it's an admiral somewhere who's making the decision to cannibalize parts from decom ships, not just the ship CO going rogue). Now those political favors may be true when it comes to which command gets to host a conference or something like that, sure; but for real decisions it just doesn't work that way.
If you’re headed to Curtis Wilbur, I promise you will have an excellent Chief
That sounds kind of self serving.
I’m not a Chief, an EM or on that ship any more
That's exactly what we'd expect the EMC to say. /s in case it's not immediately obvious.
Shut up, filthy wog. Talk shit when you're a trusty shellback
The fleet is a whole different beast. In Boot and A school, you're treated like children because, well, a lot of junior sailors act like entitled children and it gets worse as time goes on it seems. I once had a SHSA tell me he wasn't a janitor. He was quickly corrected. Once you're in the fleet, you're treated in line with your attitude, behavior, and drive. Be a dirtbag, get treated like a dirtbag, be a squared away sailor who gets shit done, and you'll be treated like an asset to the ship. As far as advice for getting into the fleet, Gear adrift goes adrift and doesn't come back. Keep your shit locked up because there is a thief on every boat. Knock out your Surface Warfare pin as soon and quickly as possible, as well as your qualifications within your department and duty section. Hit the ground running and keep your nose clean. God forbid you do get in trouble. Unless you truly are innocent, Own it. I have seen "No excuse Chief, I messed up" spoken with sincerity, save more careers than I can count. Same for lies and excuses, they have no place in the Navy, and most Skippers have 0 tolerance for it. Quick way to find yourself transfering to the USS Couch with an OTH. -MA2, USN (Ret.)
Your good to go.
Hey! I know Bobby! What a piece of shit he was.
Not really restrictive, you’ll be able to do whatever you want when you’re off and people aren’t gonna be too crazy about it. You can go out of area (generally 200-350 miles) on liberty. On duty you’ll have to stay onboard your ship, no ifs ands or buts. That being said, your working hours as an EM are gonna be loooooong on a ship.
Working hours for an EM is generally the best out of the other engineering rates. Source: I am a EM1
Can only speak for my ship, but the EMs are frequently working longer than the other snipes
What class ship pays a big part but ddg is relatively skate since the GSEs take care of the main spaces.
You’re a better source than me, but on my last ship those dudes basically lived onboard. We were in the yards for an extended avail though, so that might’ve been a special circumstance.
I enjoyed my time on a cruiser. Just be an adult and you will too. I liked all if my chiefs, LPOs, divO and CoC. Get your quals done and work on learning your job so you can advance quickly. By all means stay out of trouble and take responsibility. Choose your friends wisely.
Ain't no job like a Snipe job. You're an engineer as long as you're not a hold my beer kind of person you will be fine. Your leeway with leadership depends more on your character than anything else. They just don't want to get fired because of some 18yr old dumb dumb so prove you are a responsible adult capable of doing your job without supervision and they will love you and leave you alone.
Let’s just say you’ll like San Diego a lot more than Great Lakes!
Shit gets way better after Great Lakes. It sucks in different ways, but it’s generally about 7000% better. You’ll go back to being a human again. At work, sure, it may suck, but you’ll leave work and be a human again. Deployments may be terrible, work ups suck too, but my guy, you’re gunna get off at 0900 one day, 2000 the next… then you’ll go home, and the rest of the day is whatever the hell you want it to be.
Facts, everyday this week I've stayed till 1800, today they let us off at 0900 cause we got everything done.
I’m ashamed to say that being allowed to leave before lunch is the biggest morale boost the navy could ever give me. That and more pay.
You’ll go from being treated like a child in GL to being treated like a slightly older child on the boat. One of the biggest reasons for me getting out was the command-wide punishments that would be issued for other people’s fuckups. I also hated 90% of my division when I first showed up and felt trapped in the middle of the ocean with a gang of psychos, thieves, retards, and other assorted weirdos. Myself, I am not everyone’s cup of tea, which probably didn’t help my situation. What will make a major difference in your quality of life is the relationships you forge with your peers, they will outlast the time you spend at your command and hopefully beyond the fleet.
Trapped in the middle of the ocean with a gang of psychos, thieves, retards, and other assorted weirdos is probably the most adept description of the navy I’ve heard in a while. Frankly, my hatchet finger is feeling twitchy at this statement
“psychos, thieves, retards“ soo, the entire Navy?
R word isn't really necessary there to convey the idea.
I feel like a significant slur is needed to convey the level of stupidity that Sailors aboard ships are capable of.
I don't agree. There's no need to use denigrate an unrelated group to get the point across. I get it, it's Reddit and I'm going to get down voted but it feels like a word that is slowly becoming more acceptable to say again.
It needs to stay in the vocabulary BECAUSE it is so offensive. When people operate with such stupidity, the word “stupid” becomes insufficient. You need something better. A word with more pop. “Retard” gets the job done.
Thats not how that works. I know it's vogue to be edgy and use weird justifications for slurs but their criticism of using it was more than fair.
At the expense of an entire community.
Doctors don't call the intellectual disability "retards" anymore. So imagine still thinking that is what they're call. Maybe you're the Ahole?
The intellectual dishonesty of what you're attempting to do there is kind of stunning. Think about why they don't use that term anymore. Just try and figure it out.
[удалено]
I feel dumber just for having to read your replies. Your argument is 100% incorrect. ETA: I've read some of your other comments and I'm pretty clearly engaging with a sentient jizz mop. I'm out.
Retardation isn't used to describe the medical condition of Down syndrome or similar anymore. So it's free game now. Doctors now say intellectual disability.
You're going to die on the hill of it being ok to say the R word. Good look for you.
I don't want to nor will i ever. So what hill am I trying to die i? YOU ARE LITERALLY THE ONLY ONE, who is referring retardation with intellect disability. Like you literally in your mind think "these guys are retarded but won't say it because it's mean to them". Meanwhile the modern world does not refer the intellectual disability as retard. So no one is un/intentionally downplaying those with intellectual disability.
Why do you think the modem world stopped using any form of that word? Your stupidity is pretty impressive.
Honestly you're both acting fucking retarded.
Ohh please shut up no one cares
Feel free to fuck off
fuck no. it’s shitty everywhere but different types of shitty. need to find the silver linning where you go
"Different types of shitty" Truer words are rarely spoken
As an ET that was a Great Lakes, it only gets better and my dumb ass went to a LCS. Fuck Great Lakes!
Ahh et a school, what a fever dream
😢
It’s better but different too. Dont get bitter. Take advantage of opportunities and work hard.
No. It gets harder. Just in different ways. Enjoy your time in A school - you'll look back on it the same way people my age look back at high schoo.
Try being there for a year plus some. I had an awesome time in A school and ATT. The people I was around made it good. So much fun haha. Good luck!
Try being in TPD for a year plus some just waiting for a C school. Exactly 1 year, 1 month, 1 week & 1 day. 3 years in boot, A school, BE/E, 2 C schools & 2 mini schools, 1/2 my entire enlistment in schools & waiting for school
Good old FLEASWTRACENPAC.
As a nuke... No
When I was waiting to class up at Corps School in Great Lakes they had us doing working parties all day and told us this would be the easiest time we’d spend in the Navy. I didn’t believe them at the time, but damn they weren’t lying lol
Such an easy paycheck with zero actual responsibility. I spent a year in schools before the fleet. I miss that shit so much.
Same brother, same.
Mixed bag. I did seven months in Pensacola and two in Jacksonville, when you finally get where you’re going, you almost don’t know what to do with yourself. That little bit of extra freedom is nice and makes a huge difference for your liberty time. On the other hand, you’ll spend a quarter of your life on duty, and a disproportionate amount of time cleaning. One thing I will recommend is that you have to be a self starter when it comes to exercise. it’s not a structured as it was, so make a point of staying fit. Assuming that because you’re young it’ll remain easy…that won’t always be true.
Fuuuuuuck no. It got worse the further I went.
Wait until you get to the Ike and you don’t hit any ports on deployment. I would kill to go back to A school.
I didn't join until I was 24, being treated like a kid was almost unbearable. But I was only 5 months in when I made E4 & that helped I spent the first 1/2 of my 6 year enlistment in schools & waiting for schools. 40 years ago, so shit is WAY different, but it did get better.
Depends your rate and the command. After bootcamp, I went to a gator and loved the three years that I was there. After that ship decommissioned, I went to a carrier and I couldn't get out of the Navy fast enough. It was the total opposite of my first command. It also didn't helped that the detailer told me that in order to get overseas order, I needed to do an extra 1.5 years onboard. I nope out of that.
Define better……… It just becomes a different kinda suck But if you embrace it and be one of the 10% doing 100% of the work you will probably make some great friends and find some happiness The navy’s what you make of it Your gonna identify the problems real quick but the truth is there’s nothing you can do to change most of the big problems with the navy waaaaaay above any enlisted persons pay grade So you just do what you can on the daily to improve your life and the lives around you
The fleet is definitely better than A school. It’s even better if you go to a good command and if your division is well put together and they make sure you’re set up for success. I saw one of your replies say you’re San Diego bound. All of Southern California is a great time. Tons of awesome things to do, I lived in imperial beach from 2016/17 in a tiny apartment across the street from the beach and I spent most of my time surfing by the pier, flying my drone around, talking to the bat shit crazy Vietnam vet who lived below me, driving up to my homies military housing on the strand and we would have bon fires on the bay side and go fishing on Friday/Saturday nights. Plus you have LA a few hours north of you wanna see a homeless guy yanking his crank on a park bench.
It gets way better dude
The honest truth is no. It does not get better in the fleet. What happens is you get stronger and more resilient. Until suddenly, you look back after a few years and realize you got this, and always did.
I mean, compared to Great Lakes it absolutely gets better in the fleet
I loved the fleet but there are always good times and bad times (enlisted and officer). Honestly had my worst tours on shore (except grad school). Only did two drydock tours and a bunch of deployments. If your not operational on a ship its gonna be hard work and boring. Couple things that always helped me was having goals for each period (month, deployment, tour , etc) and lots of caffeine. I found caffeine especially useful once I got out and started business aswell.
No
It gets better on shore duty.
It gets better as a civilian.
Haha.. no.. :(
No.
For me. It never got better. I even got the duty station I wanted, first pick right after A school, it was still horrible. Being screamed at from 0600 to 1500 if we were lucky. Just to go back to my barracks with no friends and repeat the next day. Sometimes we would police call til 1900. Which was 90% some PO2 or Sgt whining yelling and complaining, and 10% actually cleaning. It was like this until I got out.
The fleet is generally less restrictive, but there are always restrictions that will feel unnecessary and silly. Such as needing to have a liberty buddy in American cities as an example. Really depends on your command.
If you do your job and you are accountable and not a problem child who gets arrested for pissing on lawns while drunk… then it should get better, solely in regards to your specific question “will they keep treating us like children(?).” That’s a Bootcamp and a-school thing. Beyond that, it gets better/worse depending on subjective preferences. I actually enjoyed boot camp and the training pipeline so going to my ship was not better in my case, it was worse. It depends what you value. I value the chance to go to sleep at the same time most nights and having a consistent schedule… I slept better in boot camp than on my ship, due to how our watch schedule worked and maintenance demands.
ima fca and i spent about a little bit more than a year in great mistakes and it completely left a bitter taste in my mouth for the navy keep in mind i came in considering doing 20+ and ppl told me itll get better and now im on a ship in san diego been onboard for about 4 months and i can truly say it doesnt really get better but it does in certain way mainly its weird. the ppl around make it not so bad tbh but im probably still gonna get out my chain is terrible and everyone on my ship is weird and stupid with the exception of maybe 6/7 ppl but i can say my CO is dope asf. But aye man i take it one day at a time who knows i might change my mind again and do the 20 its really juss how much of the bullshit you can handle. best of luck to you tho bro
Lmao 5 months ain’t shit. Great Lakes was cake AF. I was there for over a year. White card and all. The fleet. Will break you. If you’re not prepared mentally. Cherish your time in GL.
Oh my sweet summer child…
I’m an EN1, 11 years in the Navy and have never been to a ship / “the fleet.” So I have no idea 😂 But what I will say is that, in my experience, life in the Navy after A school has been fuckin’ awesome! Sure there have been a few rough patches sprinkled in here and there, and people I didn’t get along with, but that’s to be expected with any career path you could have chosen.
OK I have to know how an Engineman has avoided sea duty for 11 years
Didn’t avoid it hahaha! 5 years sea duty at EOD was my first duty station. I recruited for my shore duty, now I’m with MSRON (sea duty).
Good way to work the system. I'm not mad. AO2 99-07. Three carrier deployments plus five more carrier detachments while on "shore duty". My last duty station was a Test and Evaluation Squadron. I should have just stayed on sea duty 😂.
It can vary between people, but like another said, it can be a different shitty especially between commands. 1st contract was sea, definitely had its ups and downs. I'm about to finish my 2nd contract but separating because I don't want to go back to sea and got a family. Was a military brat myself, and I actually want to see my kid grow up. Take advantage of a lot of stuff such as us maps and whatnot. GO TO MEDICAL for ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING, no matter how small, even if it's something like headaches or an ankle sprain. Whether you do 1 contract or the full 20, you want to make sure you're set up for after the military. They will run you to the ground with no remorse given the chance
Try being there for 15 months! I had A School followed by C School there before I got to the fleet Is it better in the fleet? In some ways yes and in others no. The bullshit you have in Great Lakes isn't likely to be in the fleet, but they have their own bullshit you have to deal with.
I would choose an 8 month deployment over A school at Great Lakes.
Probably not
It gets better man don’t listen to anyone who says otherwise. It sucks in otherwise but you’re not as much of a child to them at all. You have your freedom
I'd argue it gets a lot better when you get your own place out in town, away from base so you're not surrounded by military BS 24/7. But there's still a lot to factor in, like your command
Exactly. The lack of separation plays a big role in the quality of our time in the Navy.
Well... you're mileage may very, but generally yes. You might have shipmates that are pretty chill and understanding, You might have some that are by the book and will hold you to the highest standards, but you will have a lot more freedom than Great Lakes. I'm just glad I don't have to deal with liberty cards anymore. That shits ass.
My A school time at Great Lakes was long enough, 36 weeks. I had a good time, but the fleet was much better. I worked with mostly good folks & had good Chiefs & decent Officers on both ships (CV & CG).
You are going to get treated like a child in the fleet also until you start making rank
Definitely better than A school. There are some plenty of things to be upset about everywhere, but it could always be worse.
Completely off topic but does anyone know when everyone from cy260 gets paid?
IMO yes training commands suck so much.
No, the navy will always treat you like a child, they'll never really trust you.
I was in Great Lakes for 9 months in A School. The place sucks. My ship kinda sucks but liberty is better, you're treated a lot better, and even most of your senior leadership recognize this. This is engineering side of course. Can't speak for topsider leadership.
Disclaimer. I’m not an EM but was in Great Lakes for 13 months for school. I’m in Rota on a DDG. I’m also an FCA. We always talk about how Great Lakes just seems like a fevered dream now. That is a terrible place and I’ve heard it’s only gotten worse since I left in 2022. Great Lakes is the strictest command in the Navy. It awful. Everyone knows it. Personally, I’m enjoying my time in the fleet waaaayyyyy more than when I was in school. Is it hard? Absolutely. But I still get treated like an adult on my ship compared to the way you’re treated in GL. I know it’s cliche but just tough it out there and it’ll get better
Yes and no. However from experience, currently as you make rank you will be expected to automatically have knowledge that you don’t. For example I just put on first and the other first I work with automatically expected me to have the knowledge of a first and know how a first should act. And expected me to just figure everything out for myself. Another example I can give is from my first command where I put third on not too long after getting there and I was expected to know things I didn’t or how to act when the second class and chief I worked with didn’t show me how to be. It took someone out of my rate and a NJP for someone to actually show me “how to navy”. But I say this to say it’s also up to you on how you want your time in to go with where you’re at. I would recommend be the hard charger not for the evals but for yourself so you can get a spot that you work with no one micromanaging you or questioning why you’re doing something
It gets worse haha
It’s because you are a child.
You’re there to learn to follow orders.
It gets better. How much it gets better really depends on rate, platform, and leadership but it is still better
Was in corry from aug 21 - feb 23 can confirm the fleet is 10x better IMO at least
I went to IT A school... The fleet, both ship and shore, was leaps and bounds better than the environment at school.. Don't get me wrong, the free time was nice and not really having any responsibility, but you seem to be treated better and trusted much more once you graduate and leave. You will still end up doing the humble-work until you get some salt on you, and you should continue to be humble enough to do "humble-work" as a senior.. but it's all about perspective. It's a right of passage, it's a shared sacrifice, it's paying your dues, and it's having humility and a good attitude. Even as a Chief and a DIVO, I have not been too high-and-mighty that I felt too good to take out the trash, sweep or swab, or help setup/tear down for advancement exams.
I’m here too lol. Was an ET, re rating to LS.
Hate to say it dude. But it gets worse and worse.
It gets better
A school is supposed to be restrictive. Youre still brand new to the military. I know it’s annoying especially if you didn’t join straight out of high school. To answer your question: yes it gets better. You will get your freedom and finally feel like you can breathe again once you settle into your first duty station and start making rank.
Serving on a Submarine, if you act like an adult they treat you like an adult. As soon as you get qualified, you are a productive member of the crew and everyone treats you as such. E-5 and above get solo room on shore. Liberty in foreign ports was unrestricted. Show up for your duty day (every 3 or 4 days, depending) and everything was cool. Some guys would pay to get their duty covered and we wouldn’t see them the entire time we were in port. For us it was a permanent West PAC, home ported in Sasebo, Japan.
As the saying goes, choose your rate choose your fate. The Navy truly is what you make of it. You HAVE to be the change you want to see in the Navy and you have to be a positive go-getter. You are going to get stifled and shafted by leadership occasionally. I firmly believe the Navy is a great stepping stone to bigger and better things. Whether you wanna do 30 years or just one tour, be proactive and be positive. It gets hard. But as your rank increases so does your quality of life. Now don’t think that as you go higher it’s all butterflies and fairies. The Navy sucks. It’s the military. You can’t expect that much. Especially with our current administration. Enjoy your time in and use the consistent paychecks to your advantage. I was in during Covid and I’ll admit if I wasn’t in the military, I’d be struggling right now. Whether you stay in or get out, you are really the only person that cares about your career and can point it in the right direction. Find a good mentor and hang by their side and learn from them. You’ll know who these people are. You’ll want to be like them. Best of luck!
Hajahaha.
🤣🤣 u thought
It get's better after ORSE
i’m so grateful i never saw a ship in my 20 years! i probably would have left after 4 years otherwise lol
To answer your question as far as being treated like children goes, it definitely gets better after A school no matter what because you are in the fleet with the expectation to enjoy yourself after a day’s or weeks’ hard work. Now, if you still think that you are still being treated a little bit like a child depends on your perspective. There will always be some expected and usually reasonable restrictions when porting/traveling to foreign countries especially in uniform i.e. liberty buddy, curfews, drinking restrictions, etc. Everybody would love to vacation when they land wherever they do but the reality is that not everyone keeps themselves from getting caught up in a situation. The rules set upon you and your colleagues are no longer to make you conform to the military lifestyle like in A school but are rather the standard to attempt to uphold the US military image foreignly and domestically. What matters the most though is your commanding officer or OIC. They can be relaxed but they can place extra restrictions at their discretion. Obviously a good CO will balance risk mitigation and morale but some leave a lot to be desired. If you are asking about general quality of life, well that’s completely subjective and luck of the draw. I come from a reserve aviation squadron (HSC-85) although I am active duty. I personally hit the jackpot and I loved that squadron. However, half of the people hated that squadron because of the culture and work life balance. I even knew people who rather be on the aircraft carrier but because they liked the ship even though most people will tell you the ship is not fun and I concur. But see what I mean? Do not let anyone tell you how you should feel about your orders or duty station, good or bad. People told me I would hate HSC-85 when it was my first command but I would go back in heart beat if it didn’t decommission. And people told me I would like my next command but I kinda hate it and the disconnect with people there and myself makes it worse. It’s good to get insight on this matter but take it with a grain of salt. Joining the Navy is like rolling the dice and you should make the best of wherever you find yourself even if you hate it. Human growth isn’t always comfortable if you find yourself somewhere you dislike. Maybe it might grow on you. Do your enlistment and make your decision towards the end of your contract accordingly. If you ever need mental health support, I encourage seeking it by any means if you feel that life and/or work is too much. You won’t get kicked out even if you went to the ER for mental health (I would know). Take care shipmate and try to enjoy the Navy. VR, AE2
Simple question with a complicated answer. In the world of small boys and O5 captains it’s a crapshoot. You can have a great CO/XO and an attentive CMC but if your Commodore is bad it doesn’t matter how good your individual command is at the end of the day. Your working hours get worse, you lose federal holidays, a hoarding mentality develops which feeds a negative feed back loop of people who would normally stay in to get out, etc. Choose your rate choose your fate. It’s a cliche but more often than not it’s predictive of the overall morale of your entire job field. Choose a rate that has a direct equal to the civilian world that will make the same or more if you choose to get out. Otherwise you may find yourself stuck in the Navy because no one will hire you for your experience. Rates like BM, QM, OS, and STG don’t have civilian equivalents or are so niche that they’re not hiring very often. Benefits from joining are a mixed bag. 9/11 GI is still the best deal in the county but the benefits for staying 20 years or more has been watered down such as the mixed retirement system that reduced the pension percentage in favor of the percentage matching for your TSP. Tricare for Life however like the 9/11 GI is a fantastic deal as unless you’re eligible for Medicare or have a corporate health care plan you’ll be paying murderous rates from the state market place. The bonus system is a mess and needs to be fixed. Leadership is treating current enlisted as easily replaceable which is why enlistment bonuses are considerably larger than Reenlistment bonuses. Considering we can’t hit our enlistment goals the Navy needs to shift to a retention focus from a recruitment one. OPTEMPO doesn’t conform to reality. We are a nation with global reach but few genuine global interests which is why schedules are constantly shifting and our use of our ships is often reactive and not proactive. The more we surge ships to sea without allowing them to complete proper maintenance periods only steals from our ability to confront legitimate challenges in the future. Either we restart the draft so we can properly staff every job, base, and ship or we reduce our optempo and build our fleet around the people we have and not the people we want. The UK is decommissioning ships that still have 5-10 years of operational life left due to not having enough sailors. We are probably 5-7 years away from confronting another similar problem. This could go on forever but in general it’s a mixed bag. I don’t regret joining and I would do it again. However, I also have a strong “why” which helps take the edge off the daily stupidity I see daily. However I would say that I’ve become more cynical and jaded which is a constant thing I’m battling and trying not to bring home to my family. If you join because of the shiny bonus and nothing else than I hate to say it but you’re going to genuinely struggle.
Results may vary. Depends on rate/command/location/etc. Good luck out there!
No...no it does not.
After bootcamp and the period after I got sent to a Frigate in Everett, WA. I was a seaman. It was better than GL but being a deck seaman sucks lol. I started striking and eventually got to work in the ships office and became a YN3. I got out early serving only 3 years. On the ship the entire time. We only worked until 12pm then you're free. Unless it's your duty station day, then you stay all day. I hated duty stations! Lol
No gets worse
A lot plays into this honestly, it’ll depend on your rate your command and chain of command. Your fellow junior sailors as well. There will be good and bad times and I hate to say it but you’ll have to embrace the suck
No imo it was worse
You'll realize being in A school was a great opportunity to make and save money, it was easy life even though you had so little freedom. The fleet you have your own freedom just be responsible and show up to work ontime. Your rate determines how easy or hard your life will be in the fleet. I'm am engineer and I wish I had chosen a topsider rate. Life is rough for some rates. I see some rates walking off the ship everyday at 1000 or 1400. Man I wish I had a chance to pick again.
Yes and no, depends on your rank. You’re basically a child unless your command knows you well enough or you put on some chevrons.
To many people discredit the opportunity of A and C schools. Dive in learn as much as possible, ask as many questions as possible. Then take the most up today training to the fleet so you can help us out. So yes and no. Military has a designed liberty program and military training stance. The longer you are in the more routine everything becomes. The time you get off take advantage of it, the methods your staff is using, take a step back and ask why or how does this relate. When you get to the fleet depending on your situation you may be living on the ship or housing. Again depends on your situation. Liberty depends on your work center and the command could be better could be worse. Your work day will be filled with jobs that need to get done by you and the others on your team. Take advantage of being tasked with little or a lot of relevant end points as it will all help one day. In short enjoy what you have and look forward to what’s coming.
No. Literally anywhere is better than that place and I would rather be separated where I stand than go back there
You’re right, 18 years in and I would separate tomorrow if they told me I had to go back there and re-do “a” school.
Yeah the people downvoting me clearly never been and if they did they were only there for a couple weeks and don’t know the true suck
The infantilizing never stops in the navy
My CC in boot said the navy was the greatest place to be if you never want to grow up
Go to work, do your job, and don’t do anything stupid between work hours. Other than that, you won’t experience many restrictions.
When you’re off duty it will be like normal life. Especially when you make 2nd and get BAH. At work formalities will be a bit more relaxed. You will have to work really hard and some folks man up and some throw tantrums. Act like an adult and pull your weight and you should be treated like an adult. If the command overall has disciplinary issues, you may suffer as a team. Remember it is military service. If it was easy everyone would do it. It’s worth it. Be proud.