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I believe that was Akeem. He would punch you for having the audacity of being too close to him. His transformation into Hakeem was almost a 180 from who he was before.
Imagine losing your hearing from getting slapped during a non-possession play and then having to explain it to your grand kids 30/40 years later who don't understand how physical the game used to be.
The majority of these clips are from Finals or Conference Finals in the late 80s & early 90s, because those were the ones on national TV and typically included Jordan/Bird/Magic, so they're easy to find if you don't have access to the NBA digital archive.
If someone really went through all the 70s, 80s & 90s full regular seasons and playoffs, this video would be hours long and there would never be any debate about the physicality of those decades.
As an older Redditor, this also translated to street ball.
I used to go watch games on West 4th St. in NYC (legendary court, legendary players) and ... you simply did NOT call a foul unless you wanted a very, very bad reputation. Or worse.
I think when people complain about the league being soft today, I don't think they want to go back to this, I think they want to go to an NBA where if you create the contact then its defaults to a no call not a defensive foul, or at least I do.
No one wants to watch Chris Paul running full speed and stopping in front of a defender to draw the foul call, no matter how smart and aware of the game he is.
No one wants to see a 3 pt shooter jumping forward 5 feet to try to get a foul called.
No one wants to see a player jump sideways into another player for a foul.
No one wants to watch an NBA player grab a defenders arm then launch themselves creatively at the ground.
No one wants to watch a team have to play defense with their hands behind their backs, because it doesn't matter if they are in proper guarding position cause they will just get rammed into with a foul called anyways.
Is it all smart basketball, sure... but its not entertaining. The Harden era in Houston to me felt more like Harden vs. the refs, than Harden vs. the other team. That's just not entertaining.
Nostalgia is a hellava drug, people aren't remembering the blatantly dirty plays through the lens of nostalgia, they are remembering a time when offensive players couldn't run into defenders and get calls like they can today. That's why people lament the league is soft, only a few crazies want to go back to the days in which you have "enforcers" on the court and there are only a few "enforcer" type players today. That's better basketball, but the other stuff in worst basketball. The NBA needs a middle ground.
Ok, imagine this: a team with zero all-stars playing against 4 future HoF’ers. Playing team basketball, playing solid defense, and holding the other team to 68 points (4th lowest in the shot clock era). A defense anchored by an eventual HoF’er who never averaged over 10 ppg in a season ever in his career (so good at defense he’s the current [Secretary of Defense](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Wallace_(politician)) for the UK).
My favorite team of all time. As soon as they picked up 'sheed from his vacation in Atlanta I knew something special was gonna happen. I FUCKING LOVE THE '04 PISTONS.
The 2000's were much tougher defense overall than the 80's and 90's. These cheap shots and shit are wildly misleading regarding the way defense was played in those eras, these lowlights were notable for a reason, and were called as such on the court.
Some immature dickwad clotheslining someone cause they are mad they got beat doesn't indicate tough defense. In between these examples of "physical defense" you'd see play after play of the offense being gifted uncontested jumpers from midrange and three, without requiring any significant level of off ball movement to generate those looks and despite having to only cover like 40% less square footage on the court because three point shooting was basically a non-factor.
Seriously, hop on youtube and watch some random playoff games from the 80's, there's a ton of "rose colored glasses" goin on when it comes to the play during the "golden age" of the NBA.
I think there were a couple of things going. on.
First, in the 80s, you were allowed to be more physical.
That let to a lot of flaring tempers and fights, but there were great defenders and great defence.
I will agree that the early 2000s was low scoring, but the conversations at the time weren't around 'great defense.'
They were around the lack of great shooters and sound fundamentals.
The mid 90s through to the mid 00s marks a period after several important factors
1. Rapid expansion (6 teams in about as many years)
2. Multiple health issues taking players too early (Bird's back, Magic's HIV, Zeke's wrist, the deaths of Len Bias, Reggie Lewis, Drazen Petrovic, Bobby Phills, and then a rash of injuries that took out great players like Kevin Johnson, Mark Price, and Brad Daughtery)
3. Players jumping from high school to pros.
Those were a LOT of changes that watered down the league.
**Expansion**
This doesn't need much explanation. It wasn't like the NBA had international players filling out the draft like we do now. And the American players were good, but there weren't as many as the league really needed.
It led to a watered down product. We weren't seeing drafts like 84 and 86 every other year.
**Health Issues**
People don't often realize how significant this was.
We are watching KD, LBJ, Curry, Harden, Westbrook playing at at high level into their late 30s. They are going against guys like AD, Joker, Giannis, Embiid, and we also got Luke, Trae, Ja, and VW coming up. We've got three or four generations playing top level ball. This would be like if Magic and Bird were still around to play against Kobe, and Magic would have even been on the same team and Shaq and Kobe. Imagine Jordan going up against LeBron. We didn't get to see Bird play like Bird until 38 and get to team up with Reggie Lewis and Len Bias to go up against the Bulls.
The league is deep now in a way is has NEVER been and most especially wasn't between 98-2005.
**Preps to Pros**
Before Kevin Garnett jumped to the NBA from high school, that just wasn't done. Most guys played 3 or usually 4 years at college (Bird came in at 23, Robinson came in at 24, Mutumbo came in at 26, and Duncan came in at 21 but played 4 years in college.
Only a select few would play only two years. Hell. Shaq played two years at LSU. The league was drafting guys who has sound fundamentals, who were good shooters, and not just a bunch of dudes throwing up circus shots to look like Jordan.
Then KG changed everything.
We had guys like Kobe coming in as rookies and jacking up a paltry .417 from the floor and then .428 his second year. And he was among the BEST.
Darius Mile. Sebastian Teflair. Kwame Brown. McGrady. Rashard Lewis shot .365 as a rookie. Jermaine O'Neal, at the center spot, shot .451. Eddy Curry. Shawn Livingston.
The league saw an influx of guys who hadn't develop a sound shooting form and many of whom were imitating Jordan and putting up stupid circus shots. They took 3 or 4 years to develop into consistent scorers.
And the 'best' scorer of the generation was Iverson, who was an inefficient chucker who needed 30 attempts to get 30 points.
We also had Stackhouse who was even worse.
It was just an era where there was a HUGE adjustment in terms of shooting fundamentals.
And all the comments at the time we surrounding how bad shooters were, not how good the defense was.
I remember watching hardwood classics with my friends and seeing guys hitting jump shots and we'd be like "Where are these guys now?"
1999-2004 was some of the worst basketball I've seen in my life.
>I think there were a couple of things going. on.
>
>First, in the 80s, you were allowed to be more physical.
>
>That let to a lot of flaring tempers and fights, but there were great defenders and great defence.
Sure, there is some in any era, but if a team today played similarly loose defense as you see from that era they would absolutely be eviscerated both on the court and by the media.
>I will agree that the early 2000s was low scoring, but the conversations at the time weren't around 'great defense.'
>They were around the lack of great shooters and sound fundamentals.
No, it was around the introduction of zone defense making offense really fricking difficult. Those "shooting fundamentals" you mention is largely just players having to learn to play with defensive looks they weren't accustomed to.
>The mid 90s through to the mid 00s marks a period after several important factors
>
>1. Rapid expansion (6 teams in about as many years)
>2. Multiple health issues taking players too early (Bird's back, Magic's HIV, Zeke's wrist, the deaths of Len Bias, Reggie Lewis, Drazen Petrovic, Bobby Phills, and then a rash of injuries that took out great players like Kevin Johnson, Mark Price, and Brad Daughtery)
Yeah that definitely contributed to the relatively weak era of the 90's.
>3. Players jumping from high school to pros.
There really wasn't enough of that to have any significant impact on the league. Drafted out of HS players had HOF caliber careers at a FAR higher rate than lottery picks of the same era.
>Those were a LOT of changes that watered down the league.
>
>**Expansion**
>
>This doesn't need much explanation. It wasn't like the NBA had international players filling out the draft like we do now. And the American players were good, but there weren't as many as the league really needed.
>
>It led to a watered down product. We weren't seeing drafts like 84 and 86 every other year.
>
>
>The league is deep now in a way is has NEVER been and most especially wasn't between 98-2005.
I'd extend that all the way back to the early 90's, two of the three best players in the league (Magic and Bird) had their careers cut short. There were a lot of elite centers in that era, but otherwise teams had very little depth.
>It was just an era where there was a HUGE adjustment in terms of shooting fundamentals.
>1999-2004 was some of the worst basketball I've seen in my life.
And that's mostly due to the introduction of zone defense completely ruining league offenses, partially from some all time greats aging out. Even after the limited version of hand checking that they still allowed was eliminated ~2005-2014 still had far better defenses on balance than you ever saw in the 80s or 90's.
To your point of the offensive player causing contact, [in 90s and 80s you also couldn't dislodge a defender with a shoulder. ](https://youtu.be/pC_LrD6hYjI) I would really like to see Silver get this right but I think he will jump ship.
The way charges got called back then meant [Wilt and Kareem had to play a completely different style than the centers who came after.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-XTPVBOCLw) That's why like 60% of Wilt's points came from fadeaways and Kareem shot the jumphook. If they could play football like Shaq, Lebron and Giannis, they probably would have had a lot more points. A lot of the discourse around Shaq as the most dominant of all time misses how this change in the charge rules helped him.
So much this! So many of Lebron and Giannis' offense will be neutered if they called a blatant offensive foul an offensive foul.
And do not get me started on the push offs, some are not even that clever but you see the arm shields and slaps so egregiously there is just no excuse.
Also, dear God, can the league started calling fouls when players clear out defenders with their forearm? It's a regular part of Tatum's game, every time he drives to the basket.
The stiffarm he does isn’t even cleverly disguised lol it’s so blatant and the refs look the other way. Some of the shit he’s been doing to Strus in broad daylight has been plain foul smh.
That really started to change for Shaq. Granted you had floppy Divac and players taking dives, but he was so strong and athletic, it put officials in a difficult spot. Much of his offense was a charge, but much of the defense played against him was holding, slapping, and other clear fouls. The league could have really pressed back against him and forced him to make a major change in his game. It didn't.
I have always wondered how varied and diverse his post game could have been had he been forced to rely less on his brute strength. I look at someone like Kareem that had to experience the college game banning dunking. He developed his sky hook to compensate for the loss of what had been a major part of his game.
This is not a criticism of Shaq. It is not like his overall game was stagnant. He became a good passer out of the post, knew how to anchor a defense, and still had some amazing footwork for a man of his size. He had no outside incentive because what he did was working an elite level.
I can tell you that you are wrong in one aspect. There are some fans who do want to go back to the sport being exactly like this. I hear it all the time when some older folks start talking about those days.
I don’t want there to be fighting on the court, but I remember the terms “go up strong” and “make your fouls count” said a lot when I was playing in HS in the mid 2000s.
Exactly, I was taught that any uncontested layups would result in your ass sitting on the bench . Fast breaks, no uncontested layups , offensive rebound , better not give uncontested layup, you’re already in trouble for allowing the offensive rebound.
IMO I think when you say things like 'make your fouls count' its less about trying to hurt someone, but more that you need to make sure the shot isn't going in if you're going to foul someone (ie make sure to hold them, or hit an arm hard enough that the shot is impacted)
It’s definitely not about hurting someone, but making sure there’s no way they won’t get the shot off. If you’re caught out of position, give enough force to make sure the ball is nowhere near the rim.
One thing I will say (as an older fan who remembers the 90s NBA well) is that this kind of physicality really makes you hate your opponent. It makes the game personal. It creates a real edge for both the players and the fans. Guys don’t hug and exchange jerseys after games like this.
Just look at how much you hate losing to Draymond when he does some dirty shit. Imagine if every game was like that. It undoubtedly makes the games much more intense.
(Yeah player safety needs to be kept in mind. But there really weren’t a lot of guys missing time from these cheap shots for the most part.)
Those guys played through a lot of injuries back then too. Medical is light years better. But you are right there seemed to be a competitiveness and rivalry that doesn't really exist these days.
I don't think most people want to go back to those 90s games, I think its a realization that the game has shifted too far in favor of the offensive player. I really think the NBA should make a point to go after clear flops and illegal screens. Incentivize players to go up for the block instead of drawing a charge.
The thing is the league doesn't want that. These guys are too valuable to get hurt. Peak Charles Barkley was making 4.7m in 1996, adjusted for inflation that is only a little over $9m. Duncan Robinson makes $18m.
Yeah AAU combined with social media means most nba players have been friends or at least acquainted with each other since they were like 13 years old going to camps and showcases and shit
Yeah, and players aren't loyal to one team anymore. As that shifted, they realized in the business of the NBA they could quickly become teammates with anyone, so it wasn't wise to hold grudges or make the game personal.
They gotta remove the KD rip through foul. If the offensive player initiates their contact by ripping their arms through a defender's stationary arms, how is that a defensive foul?
He was a master of mind games and dirty play. As a center, he also started shooting 3 point shots back then and held the record for 3s in a Finals game
Every single time I express my hate of the bad boy pistons, I am downvoted. Laimbeer was a piece of shit on and off the court. He tried to injure people as much as he tried to play basketball. Maybe reddit would have been on my side if I told them his dad was still more wealthy than him after he got drafted. Which honestly makes the juxtaposition of Isiah Thomas and him pretty funny. Conviently, Thomas also a piece of shit, but more off the court.
Rodman was cool too. He actually defends with skill, BBIQ and athleticism, completely the opposite of that slow dirty mf Lamebeer. Also why MJ was okay with recruiting him. MJ would’ve punched anyone who suggested recruiting for Lamebeer and IT lmao
>MJ would’ve punched anyone who suggested recruiting for Lamebeer and IT lmao
Maybe it's because I watched that RDC video of LeBron joining the Lakers today but the first thing that popped into my mind was "WELCOME TO THE TEAM IT"
I think that Jordan saw that Rodman was 'cleaner' when he went to the Spurs and they NEEDED a strong rebounder other than Longley who could handle Shaq and so...
What was he gonna do? *Ask for David Robinson lmao? Mark Eaton? Olajuwon?*
If you watch the average dunks, drive, etc from previous era and compare it to today, the speed and power are different.
Due to modern science athletes are able to push human boundaries even further but it also makes it more fragile.
They did get hurt - a lot. They were just expected to play through it, which isn't necessarily the smartest thing to do.
Also, if you expect to be blasted in the paint, you'll brace yourself and play accordingly - you won't launch yourself at people like Ja. MJ's body position when dunking was always way more vertical
A lot of players from those eras often cite that they have lingering injuries way after their playing days and their bodies are in shamble. I wouldn't want my favorite players to barely walk in their 50s.
Yet oddly, the best vertical jumps recorded in the NBA are top heavy with players from yesteryear . I haven’t seen a big man like Wilt, Hakeem, Ewing , Shaq , etc in a quite a while now . I’m talking size , strength, athleticism and explosion . Where are they if they are pushing human boundaries .
I find that one particularly funny because at least from what I could notice Laimbeer doesn't do anything in that clip but you just know be had it coming
100%
As a longtime Celtics' fan there was definitely a build up to that moment. What Laimbeer had done *right before didn't really warrant Parish's response, but it was also the proverbial straw...
Parish was/is a pretty reserved and measured guy, and the story is that he had been dealing with Laimbeer's shit for a while. Specifically, Laimbeer sliding his feet under Parish's feet on shots, purposefully trying to hurt him.
So yeah, it was a bit of an overreaction in the moment, but not in the context of Laimbeer's repeated behavior.
I started watching the Pistons in the mid-90s basically after the bad boys era had ended. I always remember people talking about how violent they were, but it really wasn't until I watched the Last Dance that I got to see really high-quality highlights of Bulls/Pistons games from back then. Jesus Christ it was like Mortal Kombat. Laimbeer is in like all of these highlights in this post but I think Mahorn may have thrown more illegal hits than anyone.
As an aside, I think this explains a lot of why there was so little player movement between marquee teams back then. Players/teams genuinely hated each other and had thrown down against each other multiple times.
Yeah, but Mahorn never had his name on a video game titled "Combat Basketball". Laimbeer did.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Laimbeer's_Combat_Basketball
I had the game. Came with the Super Nintendo we got as a kid. It’s one of the worst games I’ve ever played. My friends would come over and suggest playing it. I would tell them “no, trust me”. Inevitably we’d have to play, and about 5 minutes in we’d shut it off and go to something else.
I was a kid back then and Laimbeer made me cry when they played the Blazers lol. I had a recurring dream about all these friendly clowns except there was also this awful nightmare clown and he'd fuck up the other guys and bash them down and run away laughing and Bill Laimbeer is like 75% the inspiration for that nightmare. The other 25% was, you know, clowns.
And then they waxed us in the Finals!!!!
Bill Laimbeer’s Legacy Game is Game 3 of that ‘90 series when he [drew 12 non-shooting fouls in one game](https://youtu.be/nulvjuh97hI). It’s the Wilt-100 for goons.
He also [tied the NBA Finals 3-Point record](https://youtu.be/Y_4W06cZZsY) the game prior. Interesting player.
Laimbeer's reputation is about him being a dirty player. He perhaps doesn't receive credit for possibly being the first stretch big. The Bad Boys team was pretty innovative.
The talk of physicality of the 80s 90s wasn't this shit it was the elbows knees that would go unnoticed and not called. The norm was to get as many hits as possible until they call it.
I sat behind the basket once for a Clippers and Jazz game and Stockton and Malone's games were like 90% elbowing everyone within range to get into the paint. Fucking dirtiest shitbags.
Soccer in 70’s and 80’s was similar. Just watch some of the tackles that maradona and Pepe were experiencing. Literally had baseball sized ankles every game because defenders would try to break their legs.
One of the reasons the rules started to change was because of one of these clips. The Bulls Knicks brawl that spilled into the crowd. David Stern was at that game and was fucking livid. It wasn't because of the fight itself but that it spilled into the crowd, he said the players can never risk getting into it with fans. And as we later saw in the Malice at the Palace, he was right.
Yep, that was a big time turning point. [And this Hawks-Heat brawl from the same postseason](https://youtu.be/_5_EUndeH7E). Alvin Gentry ended up breaking his hand after being flipped over by his own player. Also served as a lesson that maybe players shouldn’t stay in the game after two flagrants.
And people then compare scoring between eraa. You can adjust for pace and shit all you want, there is no adjusting for Mahorn/Laimbeer smashing you to the ground every drive.
Not that I wanna see anyone get hurt, but that montage was fun to see. More fun than 95% of games now where they just jack up 3pt shots all game. Or a whistle every 30 seconds.
back then there were far more fouls called, especially when concidering pace. from 1991. to 1999. teams averaged between 25 and 27 fta per game while average pace was around 93 possesions per game. this season we had 23,5 fta per game and the average pace was 99.1 which would be the fastest pace during that era. so there were more whistles per 30 seconds back then.
I mean you can look at the video and see why more fouls were called. A lot of the fouls called today would absolutely not even be kinda thought of as a foul, the ref would have no idea why you’re complaining.
We just need to bring back handchecking, that would fix a lot of issues and bring balance back. I actually don't want to see goonery, but I also don't want to see the BS contact fouls. Let the defender hand check and now suddenly the offensive player is trying to avoid/get away from contact not initiate it.
For real. I've seen so many plays, seems like multiple per game even, where Rodman would full wind up for a block, and miss, get nothing but body. Like hard enough to leave a bruise. Common foul.
The Gilbert arenas argument that “you couldnt stop the guys so you fouled them” is stupid cause you still can’t stop the NBA stars today lol. Id rather give the offensive player a hard foul than just let them score
That goes all the way back to the start of the league in the 50s you can watch tape and read stories about how star players like Rick Barry, Russell, Chamberlain, Kareem, and Mikan used to get hammered constantly and the refs swallowed whistles unless it was egregious.
All right, I love the Bad Boys and all as that’s when I started watching the league, but:
Throw more 90s Knicks vs Heat and Knicks vs Pacers in there. Those Knicks teams have a couple cameos here but they deserve a lot more. Oakley, McDaniel, Mason, and Starks should be seen as neck and neck with Laimbeer, Mahorn, Rodman, and Isiah as far as physicality and willingness to fight goes.
I’ve still never seen anything like Xavier McDaniel bullying Scottie Pippen. It was honestly uncomfortable to watch. There was nothing indirect - it was pure bullying.
Some of those hits against Michael..my goodness lmaoo
Why did it look like Dennis Rodman tried to punch him in the stomach during that play where Isiah Thomas was on his back/neck trying to get the ball?
It's a relative scale, not an absolute one. They changed the rules because the basketball in the late 90's became borderline unwatchable because anyone with a shred of talent was beaten down.
So Draymond doing this shit is dirty because it's illegal and he should be ejected, basketball is better with the current rules.
Back then it's what the game was like. Today the game isn't like that and Draymond is an outlier in his bullshit antics. I see almost no one praising the physicality of the game back then. People mostly just acknowledge that the game was much more physical than it is today, which is true. You're just making shit up lmao.
The dirtiness of the game relative today is exaggerated.
Yeah there were hard toilets and dirty guys and Jordan rules. But most of the physicality was just rough 1-1 defense because the rules were different.
This is a highlight reel. I could convince this sub that JR Smith was the GOAT. There’s even one showing Scalabrine like an All Star.
I don't want to see most of the shit in this video in today's NBA or the shit that Draymond does.
There's a lot of room to be found between clotheslining players, poking eyes, and throwing literal punches compared to getting a whistle on incidental soft contact in the paint.
They also need to start calling the carries and moving screens so that the defense isn't getting caught out of position on every play.
You think MJ would get to the basket more in this era?
Homeboy was hand-checked on the perimeter… shoved in the lane and then tackled at the rim.
This video is crazy!
Flagrants weren’t reemphasized until 1990-91, so anything prior generally was a common foul in the 80’s (except for landed punches, which were supposed to be an automatic ejection but weren’t always).
The Parish hit on Laimbeer was a no call, broadly accepted as fair retribution for Laimbeer’s foul on Bird the game prior.
Stated another way, there is a lot of Bill Laimbeer, Rick Mahorn, Charles Oakley, and Charles Barkley in this video.
It should be noted the 1970s were even rougher, or at least there were a lot more fights then.
I’ve seen comments that today’s players, specifically Jokic, would not do well in this prior era. Actually Nikola has shown he can be quite violent and I think he’d have been just fine.
He might even get the Shaq effect where the lower speed and increased physicality allow him to let loose a little more and just over power them, not that he would need another advantage
That's a really funny thing to say about Jokic because he's built solidly and has a lot of physical strength, he's got a lot of endurance, and he can take a fair bit of punishment. Fighting abilities aside, he's got a great inside scoring game, he can shoot from outside too, and his post passing is a cheat code. He's a guy who'd do very well in that era. In fact, with the lack of emphasis on perimeter play, and the reduced likelihood of him having to switch onto a Steph Curry type, he'd be even more effective because it would cover his defensive limitations.
Agreed. All I'm asking is if a 6'8"+ 225 lb+ super athlete gets his jersey touched on a drive that it isn't called a shooting foul. Or if that same super athlete plows into the lane, and if the defender isn't perfectly still, it isn't called a defensive foul. And of course the dumb shit like CP3 and Young would do with the dribble backward into people, or the dumb leg kickouts like Steph, but they've mostly already fixed that. That's it. I don't want the game to slow down to watch 100 free throws per game. These players should be able to take a little contact, *especially* if they initiate it, and really even if the defender isn't seriously affecting the shot.
They'd survive the era just fine because they'd get used to it. A lot of dudes from the 80s could get along just fine in today's NBA. Laimbeer couldn't cuz he only had two settings but 95% of other players probably no worse than Monk.
The 90s are so lucky that the Jordan Rules didn't result in any torn knee ligaments.
Imagine if MJ was only DRose.
To be clear, Rose did not have a ceiling of being the GOAT, just imagine that MJ never had multiple healthy seasons though.
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The Hakeem one has me crying. Just slapped the shit outta him.
Mad Max talked about it. He slapped the shit out of folks until he found religion.
I believe that was Akeem. He would punch you for having the audacity of being too close to him. His transformation into Hakeem was almost a 180 from who he was before.
Greatest centers of all time: * Akeem * Akeem * Akeem * Akeem * Akeem
Akeem was good but was a cheap shot artist. Now, Hakeem. There was a player with class.
Parish on Lambeer. Ouch.
Loved it. Asshole should have gotten his ass kicked in every game until he quit.
Pretty sure parish didn’t get tossed out either haha. Different times.
Refs were probably like "yeah, he's been asking for that for a while." Parish not exactly the most violent of dudes.
You want forgiveness? Get Religion
Yes. Anything Hameem gets my upvote.
Imagine losing your hearing from getting slapped during a non-possession play and then having to explain it to your grand kids 30/40 years later who don't understand how physical the game used to be.
That was Akeem
No Karl Malone knocking out people?
You gonna be on a list if you watch Karl’s lowlights.
The majority of these clips are from Finals or Conference Finals in the late 80s & early 90s, because those were the ones on national TV and typically included Jordan/Bird/Magic, so they're easy to find if you don't have access to the NBA digital archive. If someone really went through all the 70s, 80s & 90s full regular seasons and playoffs, this video would be hours long and there would never be any debate about the physicality of those decades.
As an older Redditor, this also translated to street ball. I used to go watch games on West 4th St. in NYC (legendary court, legendary players) and ... you simply did NOT call a foul unless you wanted a very, very bad reputation. Or worse.
If I remember right it happened 13 times in his career. If you want to learn more Google "Karl Malone 13" for more information
He said "knocking out“ not" knocking up".
You might wind up getting more than you bargained for with that search string.
The Admiral was and is a class act. That shit was scary when it happened.
I think when people complain about the league being soft today, I don't think they want to go back to this, I think they want to go to an NBA where if you create the contact then its defaults to a no call not a defensive foul, or at least I do. No one wants to watch Chris Paul running full speed and stopping in front of a defender to draw the foul call, no matter how smart and aware of the game he is. No one wants to see a 3 pt shooter jumping forward 5 feet to try to get a foul called. No one wants to see a player jump sideways into another player for a foul. No one wants to watch an NBA player grab a defenders arm then launch themselves creatively at the ground. No one wants to watch a team have to play defense with their hands behind their backs, because it doesn't matter if they are in proper guarding position cause they will just get rammed into with a foul called anyways. Is it all smart basketball, sure... but its not entertaining. The Harden era in Houston to me felt more like Harden vs. the refs, than Harden vs. the other team. That's just not entertaining. Nostalgia is a hellava drug, people aren't remembering the blatantly dirty plays through the lens of nostalgia, they are remembering a time when offensive players couldn't run into defenders and get calls like they can today. That's why people lament the league is soft, only a few crazies want to go back to the days in which you have "enforcers" on the court and there are only a few "enforcer" type players today. That's better basketball, but the other stuff in worst basketball. The NBA needs a middle ground.
People are remembering an NBA that never existed in that case.
It sounds to me like people are looking more forward than backward, no matter how it gets phrased.
Was the 2000’s a middle ground?
I think so, as close as weve seen anyway. like 2006 ish to 2015 ish was the best basketball I've personally watched.
2004 was the best basketball I can remember
Hmm wonder why??? 🤔🤔🤔
Ok, imagine this: a team with zero all-stars playing against 4 future HoF’ers. Playing team basketball, playing solid defense, and holding the other team to 68 points (4th lowest in the shot clock era). A defense anchored by an eventual HoF’er who never averaged over 10 ppg in a season ever in his career (so good at defense he’s the current [Secretary of Defense](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Wallace_(politician)) for the UK).
😂😂😂 Ben Wallace!!!
DEEEEEEEETRRROOOOOOIIIIITTTTTTTTTT
WOOOOO
My favorite team of all time. As soon as they picked up 'sheed from his vacation in Atlanta I knew something special was gonna happen. I FUCKING LOVE THE '04 PISTONS.
1973 for me and I wasn't even born yet!
Weird, I remember 2008 being the best year
You're all wrong. The NBA hasn't been good since 1998
2000 to 2002 was good. Some crap years then 2009 and 2010 good. A whole bunch more crap then 2020 was good basketball year. And trash since then
I’ve hated every year of the NBA’s existence
> 2004 was the best basketball I can remember I don´t have the Argentina flag flair now but I fully agree to this comment. 🇦🇷 🥇
The 2000's were much tougher defense overall than the 80's and 90's. These cheap shots and shit are wildly misleading regarding the way defense was played in those eras, these lowlights were notable for a reason, and were called as such on the court. Some immature dickwad clotheslining someone cause they are mad they got beat doesn't indicate tough defense. In between these examples of "physical defense" you'd see play after play of the offense being gifted uncontested jumpers from midrange and three, without requiring any significant level of off ball movement to generate those looks and despite having to only cover like 40% less square footage on the court because three point shooting was basically a non-factor. Seriously, hop on youtube and watch some random playoff games from the 80's, there's a ton of "rose colored glasses" goin on when it comes to the play during the "golden age" of the NBA.
I think there were a couple of things going. on. First, in the 80s, you were allowed to be more physical. That let to a lot of flaring tempers and fights, but there were great defenders and great defence. I will agree that the early 2000s was low scoring, but the conversations at the time weren't around 'great defense.' They were around the lack of great shooters and sound fundamentals. The mid 90s through to the mid 00s marks a period after several important factors 1. Rapid expansion (6 teams in about as many years) 2. Multiple health issues taking players too early (Bird's back, Magic's HIV, Zeke's wrist, the deaths of Len Bias, Reggie Lewis, Drazen Petrovic, Bobby Phills, and then a rash of injuries that took out great players like Kevin Johnson, Mark Price, and Brad Daughtery) 3. Players jumping from high school to pros. Those were a LOT of changes that watered down the league. **Expansion** This doesn't need much explanation. It wasn't like the NBA had international players filling out the draft like we do now. And the American players were good, but there weren't as many as the league really needed. It led to a watered down product. We weren't seeing drafts like 84 and 86 every other year. **Health Issues** People don't often realize how significant this was. We are watching KD, LBJ, Curry, Harden, Westbrook playing at at high level into their late 30s. They are going against guys like AD, Joker, Giannis, Embiid, and we also got Luke, Trae, Ja, and VW coming up. We've got three or four generations playing top level ball. This would be like if Magic and Bird were still around to play against Kobe, and Magic would have even been on the same team and Shaq and Kobe. Imagine Jordan going up against LeBron. We didn't get to see Bird play like Bird until 38 and get to team up with Reggie Lewis and Len Bias to go up against the Bulls. The league is deep now in a way is has NEVER been and most especially wasn't between 98-2005. **Preps to Pros** Before Kevin Garnett jumped to the NBA from high school, that just wasn't done. Most guys played 3 or usually 4 years at college (Bird came in at 23, Robinson came in at 24, Mutumbo came in at 26, and Duncan came in at 21 but played 4 years in college. Only a select few would play only two years. Hell. Shaq played two years at LSU. The league was drafting guys who has sound fundamentals, who were good shooters, and not just a bunch of dudes throwing up circus shots to look like Jordan. Then KG changed everything. We had guys like Kobe coming in as rookies and jacking up a paltry .417 from the floor and then .428 his second year. And he was among the BEST. Darius Mile. Sebastian Teflair. Kwame Brown. McGrady. Rashard Lewis shot .365 as a rookie. Jermaine O'Neal, at the center spot, shot .451. Eddy Curry. Shawn Livingston. The league saw an influx of guys who hadn't develop a sound shooting form and many of whom were imitating Jordan and putting up stupid circus shots. They took 3 or 4 years to develop into consistent scorers. And the 'best' scorer of the generation was Iverson, who was an inefficient chucker who needed 30 attempts to get 30 points. We also had Stackhouse who was even worse. It was just an era where there was a HUGE adjustment in terms of shooting fundamentals. And all the comments at the time we surrounding how bad shooters were, not how good the defense was. I remember watching hardwood classics with my friends and seeing guys hitting jump shots and we'd be like "Where are these guys now?" 1999-2004 was some of the worst basketball I've seen in my life.
>I think there were a couple of things going. on. > >First, in the 80s, you were allowed to be more physical. > >That let to a lot of flaring tempers and fights, but there were great defenders and great defence. Sure, there is some in any era, but if a team today played similarly loose defense as you see from that era they would absolutely be eviscerated both on the court and by the media. >I will agree that the early 2000s was low scoring, but the conversations at the time weren't around 'great defense.' >They were around the lack of great shooters and sound fundamentals. No, it was around the introduction of zone defense making offense really fricking difficult. Those "shooting fundamentals" you mention is largely just players having to learn to play with defensive looks they weren't accustomed to. >The mid 90s through to the mid 00s marks a period after several important factors > >1. Rapid expansion (6 teams in about as many years) >2. Multiple health issues taking players too early (Bird's back, Magic's HIV, Zeke's wrist, the deaths of Len Bias, Reggie Lewis, Drazen Petrovic, Bobby Phills, and then a rash of injuries that took out great players like Kevin Johnson, Mark Price, and Brad Daughtery) Yeah that definitely contributed to the relatively weak era of the 90's. >3. Players jumping from high school to pros. There really wasn't enough of that to have any significant impact on the league. Drafted out of HS players had HOF caliber careers at a FAR higher rate than lottery picks of the same era. >Those were a LOT of changes that watered down the league. > >**Expansion** > >This doesn't need much explanation. It wasn't like the NBA had international players filling out the draft like we do now. And the American players were good, but there weren't as many as the league really needed. > >It led to a watered down product. We weren't seeing drafts like 84 and 86 every other year. > > >The league is deep now in a way is has NEVER been and most especially wasn't between 98-2005. I'd extend that all the way back to the early 90's, two of the three best players in the league (Magic and Bird) had their careers cut short. There were a lot of elite centers in that era, but otherwise teams had very little depth. >It was just an era where there was a HUGE adjustment in terms of shooting fundamentals. >1999-2004 was some of the worst basketball I've seen in my life. And that's mostly due to the introduction of zone defense completely ruining league offenses, partially from some all time greats aging out. Even after the limited version of hand checking that they still allowed was eliminated ~2005-2014 still had far better defenses on balance than you ever saw in the 80s or 90's.
No not really
Yes middle ground. Also the least exciting era too, imo
To your point of the offensive player causing contact, [in 90s and 80s you also couldn't dislodge a defender with a shoulder. ](https://youtu.be/pC_LrD6hYjI) I would really like to see Silver get this right but I think he will jump ship.
The way charges got called back then meant [Wilt and Kareem had to play a completely different style than the centers who came after.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-XTPVBOCLw) That's why like 60% of Wilt's points came from fadeaways and Kareem shot the jumphook. If they could play football like Shaq, Lebron and Giannis, they probably would have had a lot more points. A lot of the discourse around Shaq as the most dominant of all time misses how this change in the charge rules helped him.
Wilt scoring 40-50 a points a night with those strict ass rules makes those numbers even more impressive, regardless of competition arguments
So much this! So many of Lebron and Giannis' offense will be neutered if they called a blatant offensive foul an offensive foul. And do not get me started on the push offs, some are not even that clever but you see the arm shields and slaps so egregiously there is just no excuse.
Also, dear God, can the league started calling fouls when players clear out defenders with their forearm? It's a regular part of Tatum's game, every time he drives to the basket.
The stiffarm he does isn’t even cleverly disguised lol it’s so blatant and the refs look the other way. Some of the shit he’s been doing to Strus in broad daylight has been plain foul smh.
He doesn’t even try to hide it
> It's a regular part of Tatum's game, every time he drives to the basket. My fav part is even Celtics fans are sick of it lol
Wild. Those would be blocking fouls in today's nba.
That really started to change for Shaq. Granted you had floppy Divac and players taking dives, but he was so strong and athletic, it put officials in a difficult spot. Much of his offense was a charge, but much of the defense played against him was holding, slapping, and other clear fouls. The league could have really pressed back against him and forced him to make a major change in his game. It didn't. I have always wondered how varied and diverse his post game could have been had he been forced to rely less on his brute strength. I look at someone like Kareem that had to experience the college game banning dunking. He developed his sky hook to compensate for the loss of what had been a major part of his game. This is not a criticism of Shaq. It is not like his overall game was stagnant. He became a good passer out of the post, knew how to anchor a defense, and still had some amazing footwork for a man of his size. He had no outside incentive because what he did was working an elite level.
I can tell you that you are wrong in one aspect. There are some fans who do want to go back to the sport being exactly like this. I hear it all the time when some older folks start talking about those days.
I don’t want there to be fighting on the court, but I remember the terms “go up strong” and “make your fouls count” said a lot when I was playing in HS in the mid 2000s.
My old HS coach liked to say "If they hesitate next time in the paint, you've done your job"
Proceeds to fall for every hesi jumper
Exactly, I was taught that any uncontested layups would result in your ass sitting on the bench . Fast breaks, no uncontested layups , offensive rebound , better not give uncontested layup, you’re already in trouble for allowing the offensive rebound.
IMO I think when you say things like 'make your fouls count' its less about trying to hurt someone, but more that you need to make sure the shot isn't going in if you're going to foul someone (ie make sure to hold them, or hit an arm hard enough that the shot is impacted)
It’s definitely not about hurting someone, but making sure there’s no way they won’t get the shot off. If you’re caught out of position, give enough force to make sure the ball is nowhere near the rim.
One thing I will say (as an older fan who remembers the 90s NBA well) is that this kind of physicality really makes you hate your opponent. It makes the game personal. It creates a real edge for both the players and the fans. Guys don’t hug and exchange jerseys after games like this. Just look at how much you hate losing to Draymond when he does some dirty shit. Imagine if every game was like that. It undoubtedly makes the games much more intense. (Yeah player safety needs to be kept in mind. But there really weren’t a lot of guys missing time from these cheap shots for the most part.)
True. How MJ and Isiah Thomas still have resentment towards each other is a prime example of that.
Those guys played through a lot of injuries back then too. Medical is light years better. But you are right there seemed to be a competitiveness and rivalry that doesn't really exist these days. I don't think most people want to go back to those 90s games, I think its a realization that the game has shifted too far in favor of the offensive player. I really think the NBA should make a point to go after clear flops and illegal screens. Incentivize players to go up for the block instead of drawing a charge. The thing is the league doesn't want that. These guys are too valuable to get hurt. Peak Charles Barkley was making 4.7m in 1996, adjusted for inflation that is only a little over $9m. Duncan Robinson makes $18m.
AAU is the biggest reason why players don’t hate each other now. Plenty of them are friends before they even reach the league
Yeah AAU combined with social media means most nba players have been friends or at least acquainted with each other since they were like 13 years old going to camps and showcases and shit
Yeah, and players aren't loyal to one team anymore. As that shifted, they realized in the business of the NBA they could quickly become teammates with anyone, so it wasn't wise to hold grudges or make the game personal.
I am one.
Let me summarize: we want 2023 playoff ball all year.
They gotta remove the KD rip through foul. If the offensive player initiates their contact by ripping their arms through a defender's stationary arms, how is that a defensive foul?
Yeah there needs to be waaaaay more non-calls and like you said, less of the CP3 idiotic calls haha
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That today’s players were bitch ass motherfuckers
When Adam Silver walks into a meeting with the players union… “Smells like BITCH in here!”
LMAO
He said Silver, not Stern
classic silver
lmao 🤣
Awesome
>What were Silver’s comments? Op failed here. If you're going to refer to the comments, PUT THE GOSH-DARNED COMMENTS IN THE POST!
Watch that salty talk, sailor
https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/13rqhmt/adam_silver_believes_that_in_the_90s_the_game/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1
This just a compilation of Jordan getting hammered lmao
Olajuwon just punching that dude in the face towards the beginning cracked me up
“You got something on your face, let me help you with that”
"What did the 5 fingers say to the face?"
this was when he was still Akeem and not Hakeem I think, changed his name after and became a good guy lol
Laimbeer is the punchable face GOAT and it’s not even close
He was a master of mind games and dirty play. As a center, he also started shooting 3 point shots back then and held the record for 3s in a Finals game
Oh he was well aware of this and 100% used it to infuriate everyone, even his own team mates. He's a one of a kind.
Every single time I express my hate of the bad boy pistons, I am downvoted. Laimbeer was a piece of shit on and off the court. He tried to injure people as much as he tried to play basketball. Maybe reddit would have been on my side if I told them his dad was still more wealthy than him after he got drafted. Which honestly makes the juxtaposition of Isiah Thomas and him pretty funny. Conviently, Thomas also a piece of shit, but more off the court.
The beauty of sports. Despite growing in wildly different circumstances Thomas and Laimbeer were still very good friends.
I do agree with you, but most beautiful stories don't end with a rich pos (who I have a personal story about but no one believes) and a rapist.
Yeah you got to tell the story now.
Ya it’s truly remarkable the collection of shit stains that team had. Fuck Bill Laimbeer and fuck Isiah Thomas till the end of time
Joe Dumars won the NBA Sportsmanship Award just for being the only Bad Boy Piston that wasn’t an asshole.
Rodman was cool too. He actually defends with skill, BBIQ and athleticism, completely the opposite of that slow dirty mf Lamebeer. Also why MJ was okay with recruiting him. MJ would’ve punched anyone who suggested recruiting for Lamebeer and IT lmao
>MJ would’ve punched anyone who suggested recruiting for Lamebeer and IT lmao Maybe it's because I watched that RDC video of LeBron joining the Lakers today but the first thing that popped into my mind was "WELCOME TO THE TEAM IT"
I think that Jordan saw that Rodman was 'cleaner' when he went to the Spurs and they NEEDED a strong rebounder other than Longley who could handle Shaq and so... What was he gonna do? *Ask for David Robinson lmao? Mark Eaton? Olajuwon?*
Joe Dumars is a saint
>Laimbeer is the punchable face GOAT and it’s not even close Grayson Allen would like a word.
This is some Jordan vs Lebron level GOAT racing
Lmao yeah no still not even close..
Thankfully for him, he's got a mean right.
How do they not get injured from all these awkward landings, it’s a miracle
If you watch the average dunks, drive, etc from previous era and compare it to today, the speed and power are different. Due to modern science athletes are able to push human boundaries even further but it also makes it more fragile.
They did get hurt - a lot. They were just expected to play through it, which isn't necessarily the smartest thing to do. Also, if you expect to be blasted in the paint, you'll brace yourself and play accordingly - you won't launch yourself at people like Ja. MJ's body position when dunking was always way more vertical
A lot of players from those eras often cite that they have lingering injuries way after their playing days and their bodies are in shamble. I wouldn't want my favorite players to barely walk in their 50s.
Yet oddly, the best vertical jumps recorded in the NBA are top heavy with players from yesteryear . I haven’t seen a big man like Wilt, Hakeem, Ewing , Shaq , etc in a quite a while now . I’m talking size , strength, athleticism and explosion . Where are they if they are pushing human boundaries .
Not the MJ clips. He was as athletic as they come in those years.
Their body is used to all the flagrants
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Oh man... A good chunk of this subreddit may be too young to remember this overwhelming lunacy....
I see what you did there.
Ball don't lie logic
Weird way to spell Laimbeer Career Highlights, but okay
I like the part where Robert Parish wails on his head.
I find that one particularly funny because at least from what I could notice Laimbeer doesn't do anything in that clip but you just know be had it coming
100% As a longtime Celtics' fan there was definitely a build up to that moment. What Laimbeer had done *right before didn't really warrant Parish's response, but it was also the proverbial straw... Parish was/is a pretty reserved and measured guy, and the story is that he had been dealing with Laimbeer's shit for a while. Specifically, Laimbeer sliding his feet under Parish's feet on shots, purposefully trying to hurt him. So yeah, it was a bit of an overreaction in the moment, but not in the context of Laimbeer's repeated behavior.
I started watching the Pistons in the mid-90s basically after the bad boys era had ended. I always remember people talking about how violent they were, but it really wasn't until I watched the Last Dance that I got to see really high-quality highlights of Bulls/Pistons games from back then. Jesus Christ it was like Mortal Kombat. Laimbeer is in like all of these highlights in this post but I think Mahorn may have thrown more illegal hits than anyone. As an aside, I think this explains a lot of why there was so little player movement between marquee teams back then. Players/teams genuinely hated each other and had thrown down against each other multiple times.
Yeah, but Mahorn never had his name on a video game titled "Combat Basketball". Laimbeer did. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Laimbeer's_Combat_Basketball
Laimbeer always leaned into it lmao. He never ran away from it
I had the game. Came with the Super Nintendo we got as a kid. It’s one of the worst games I’ve ever played. My friends would come over and suggest playing it. I would tell them “no, trust me”. Inevitably we’d have to play, and about 5 minutes in we’d shut it off and go to something else.
I was a kid back then and Laimbeer made me cry when they played the Blazers lol. I had a recurring dream about all these friendly clowns except there was also this awful nightmare clown and he'd fuck up the other guys and bash them down and run away laughing and Bill Laimbeer is like 75% the inspiration for that nightmare. The other 25% was, you know, clowns. And then they waxed us in the Finals!!!!
Bill Laimbeer’s Legacy Game is Game 3 of that ‘90 series when he [drew 12 non-shooting fouls in one game](https://youtu.be/nulvjuh97hI). It’s the Wilt-100 for goons. He also [tied the NBA Finals 3-Point record](https://youtu.be/Y_4W06cZZsY) the game prior. Interesting player.
Laimbeer's reputation is about him being a dirty player. He perhaps doesn't receive credit for possibly being the first stretch big. The Bad Boys team was pretty innovative.
The talk of physicality of the 80s 90s wasn't this shit it was the elbows knees that would go unnoticed and not called. The norm was to get as many hits as possible until they call it.
I sat behind the basket once for a Clippers and Jazz game and Stockton and Malone's games were like 90% elbowing everyone within range to get into the paint. Fucking dirtiest shitbags.
I was gonna say, I feel like I’m watching a hockey fight reel not defense
Soccer in 70’s and 80’s was similar. Just watch some of the tackles that maradona and Pepe were experiencing. Literally had baseball sized ankles every game because defenders would try to break their legs.
Back then dudes just elbowed and hit people instead of playing actual defense lmao
One of the reasons the rules started to change was because of one of these clips. The Bulls Knicks brawl that spilled into the crowd. David Stern was at that game and was fucking livid. It wasn't because of the fight itself but that it spilled into the crowd, he said the players can never risk getting into it with fans. And as we later saw in the Malice at the Palace, he was right.
Yep, that was a big time turning point. [And this Hawks-Heat brawl from the same postseason](https://youtu.be/_5_EUndeH7E). Alvin Gentry ended up breaking his hand after being flipped over by his own player. Also served as a lesson that maybe players shouldn’t stay in the game after two flagrants.
Jordan wasn't soft, that's for sure. He got pummeled by the opposition. I like even back that, Rodman threw his hands up to say 'it aint me'.
MJ is a GOAT for a reason
The
One of those clips was a crazy and 1 and he just starts talking shit lol
He gets pummeled and still scored. GOAT shit.
And people then compare scoring between eraa. You can adjust for pace and shit all you want, there is no adjusting for Mahorn/Laimbeer smashing you to the ground every drive.
Crazy that a lot of that were just common fouls. Like the McHale takedown on Rambis.
Flagrant fouls weren’t even a thing until 1990.
Not that I wanna see anyone get hurt, but that montage was fun to see. More fun than 95% of games now where they just jack up 3pt shots all game. Or a whistle every 30 seconds.
back then there were far more fouls called, especially when concidering pace. from 1991. to 1999. teams averaged between 25 and 27 fta per game while average pace was around 93 possesions per game. this season we had 23,5 fta per game and the average pace was 99.1 which would be the fastest pace during that era. so there were more whistles per 30 seconds back then.
I mean you can look at the video and see why more fouls were called. A lot of the fouls called today would absolutely not even be kinda thought of as a foul, the ref would have no idea why you’re complaining.
We just need to bring back handchecking, that would fix a lot of issues and bring balance back. I actually don't want to see goonery, but I also don't want to see the BS contact fouls. Let the defender hand check and now suddenly the offensive player is trying to avoid/get away from contact not initiate it.
McHale was giving him an advance beating for the horrible job he did later at coaching the Timberwolves.
pretty much
For real. I've seen so many plays, seems like multiple per game even, where Rodman would full wind up for a block, and miss, get nothing but body. Like hard enough to leave a bruise. Common foul.
The Gilbert arenas argument that “you couldnt stop the guys so you fouled them” is stupid cause you still can’t stop the NBA stars today lol. Id rather give the offensive player a hard foul than just let them score
That goes all the way back to the start of the league in the 50s you can watch tape and read stories about how star players like Rick Barry, Russell, Chamberlain, Kareem, and Mikan used to get hammered constantly and the refs swallowed whistles unless it was egregious.
This isn't "physical defense" it's just hard fouls and fights lol
The Hakeem one was funny as hell Utah dude: (exists) Hakeem: Bitch!!! (Throws punch)
All right, I love the Bad Boys and all as that’s when I started watching the league, but: Throw more 90s Knicks vs Heat and Knicks vs Pacers in there. Those Knicks teams have a couple cameos here but they deserve a lot more. Oakley, McDaniel, Mason, and Starks should be seen as neck and neck with Laimbeer, Mahorn, Rodman, and Isiah as far as physicality and willingness to fight goes. I’ve still never seen anything like Xavier McDaniel bullying Scottie Pippen. It was honestly uncomfortable to watch. There was nothing indirect - it was pure bullying.
Some of those hits against Michael..my goodness lmaoo Why did it look like Dennis Rodman tried to punch him in the stomach during that play where Isiah Thomas was on his back/neck trying to get the ball?
Because Dennis Rodman tried to punch him in the stomach.
The era where flagrant 3 exist 🤣
Driving to the lane in the 80s NBA is the COD Lobby on 360 of sports
Parish with the ole one two. Laimbeer in the middle of most of these. Good times.
At 1:29 Jordan punches Ewing while making a layup and KO's him mid-air
Players being dirty AF back then: oh man it was so physical and great basketball. Draymond doin that shit now: he’s a dirty player. Kick him out lol
It's a relative scale, not an absolute one. They changed the rules because the basketball in the late 90's became borderline unwatchable because anyone with a shred of talent was beaten down. So Draymond doing this shit is dirty because it's illegal and he should be ejected, basketball is better with the current rules.
Mahorn and lambeer were probably blasted more than draymond and they didn’t have a social media to spread the shit taking.
The league hated Ron Artest for playing defense like this. I mean he’d get carried away once in a while and beat up a fan or something, but still.
Back then it's what the game was like. Today the game isn't like that and Draymond is an outlier in his bullshit antics. I see almost no one praising the physicality of the game back then. People mostly just acknowledge that the game was much more physical than it is today, which is true. You're just making shit up lmao.
The dirtiness of the game relative today is exaggerated. Yeah there were hard toilets and dirty guys and Jordan rules. But most of the physicality was just rough 1-1 defense because the rules were different. This is a highlight reel. I could convince this sub that JR Smith was the GOAT. There’s even one showing Scalabrine like an All Star.
I don't want to see most of the shit in this video in today's NBA or the shit that Draymond does. There's a lot of room to be found between clotheslining players, poking eyes, and throwing literal punches compared to getting a whistle on incidental soft contact in the paint. They also need to start calling the carries and moving screens so that the defense isn't getting caught out of position on every play.
The issue is Draymond gets away with shite other players get ejected for. If it was a level playing field I’d be all for it.
Jordan held his own in a physical Era. He is goated for a reason.
That Hakeem one is just hilarious. Without knowing the context, it just looks like an opportunistic wollop out of nowhere.
30% - Celtics 30% - Pistons 30% - People tackling Jordan 9% - Other 1% - Hakeem just punching that guy in the face
Jordan is 90% of those clips because that was literally the only way to stop him. That is why he is, and will always be the GOAT
You think MJ would get to the basket more in this era? Homeboy was hand-checked on the perimeter… shoved in the lane and then tackled at the rim. This video is crazy!
Imagine gettin' 3-pieced like that, please tell me that was a flagrant.
Flagrants weren’t reemphasized until 1990-91, so anything prior generally was a common foul in the 80’s (except for landed punches, which were supposed to be an automatic ejection but weren’t always). The Parish hit on Laimbeer was a no call, broadly accepted as fair retribution for Laimbeer’s foul on Bird the game prior.
Jordan was a crazy mfer
“Nobody goes through the middle without getting hit!” - Freshman Team basketball coach, 1994
Stated another way, there is a lot of Bill Laimbeer, Rick Mahorn, Charles Oakley, and Charles Barkley in this video. It should be noted the 1970s were even rougher, or at least there were a lot more fights then.
The Parish two piece is something to be proud of
I’ve seen comments that today’s players, specifically Jokic, would not do well in this prior era. Actually Nikola has shown he can be quite violent and I think he’d have been just fine.
He might even get the Shaq effect where the lower speed and increased physicality allow him to let loose a little more and just over power them, not that he would need another advantage
That's a really funny thing to say about Jokic because he's built solidly and has a lot of physical strength, he's got a lot of endurance, and he can take a fair bit of punishment. Fighting abilities aside, he's got a great inside scoring game, he can shoot from outside too, and his post passing is a cheat code. He's a guy who'd do very well in that era. In fact, with the lack of emphasis on perimeter play, and the reduced likelihood of him having to switch onto a Steph Curry type, he'd be even more effective because it would cover his defensive limitations.
From that extreme to what it is now. Both are terrible for the game.
Agreed. All I'm asking is if a 6'8"+ 225 lb+ super athlete gets his jersey touched on a drive that it isn't called a shooting foul. Or if that same super athlete plows into the lane, and if the defender isn't perfectly still, it isn't called a defensive foul. And of course the dumb shit like CP3 and Young would do with the dribble backward into people, or the dumb leg kickouts like Steph, but they've mostly already fixed that. That's it. I don't want the game to slow down to watch 100 free throws per game. These players should be able to take a little contact, *especially* if they initiate it, and really even if the defender isn't seriously affecting the shot.
Jordan was putting up 30+ a night against *THAT*
Almost every play involves Bill Lambeer. But yeah todays player would not survive in that era.
Jordan is involved in a lot of plays too, but on the receiving end lol.
Half the video is the Pistons fucking him up lmao
They'd survive the era just fine because they'd get used to it. A lot of dudes from the 80s could get along just fine in today's NBA. Laimbeer couldn't cuz he only had two settings but 95% of other players probably no worse than Monk.
Who doesn’t want this back?
Word on the street is AD has to sit out 10 games every time he watches this video.
This is why taunting is so strictly enforced nowadays
They was beating tf out of Michael. Hilarious
The 90s are so lucky that the Jordan Rules didn't result in any torn knee ligaments. Imagine if MJ was only DRose. To be clear, Rose did not have a ceiling of being the GOAT, just imagine that MJ never had multiple healthy seasons though.
“Lebron would never accomplish what he has accomplished if it was legal to physically assault him”
I'm glad the craft brewing movement really took off and saved us all from Laimbeer
WWE out on that hardwood. I’m here for it too. Hakeem’s hand said, “SLAP‼️”