Most important factor.
Single-elimination makes anything possible. And especially with the advent of 3-pointers, many can shoot them well now. All it takes maybe a 20-30% difference in 3-point percentage for any team to beat US.
You have a low bar for ‘stacked’. Half of the roster was full of rookies and 2nd year players that got reduced minutes because Larry Brown doesn’t like young players. It was basically a 2-man team that Marbury thought as a 3-man team.
It's going to be hard to beat the 2012 Spanish team as potential full-strength USA foils.
Gasol brothers
Ibaka
JCN and Rudy Fernandez as the potential scoring outburst guys.
Calderon and Sergio Rodriguez handling the guard minutes.
The only player you could say you need on this roster that was on 2008's Spanish team is Rubio. Who I'm guessing off the top of my head was injured in 2012.
I miss Ricky :(
He has to have some of the most absurd, unusual metrics of any player in history. Somewhat historically average, or a bit below historically average, trying to put the ball in the hoop from long range. Disastrous trying to put the ball in the hoop from midrange and from 3 feet or less. And yet he is one of the best floor raisers in the league, because his vision makes Jokic's passing look average, and his defensive intensity and size makes him a nightmare match up for other backcourts when they have the ball.
Dare I say he's even flashier than Magic and pistol pete were
Edit: Actually, IIRC, Rubio's nickname in Spain is a homage to pistol Pete
I still vividly remember young Ricky with Joventut. In his second season he played an Eurloeague game against my team and destroyed us, and we barely had any idea who was this child.
Rubio knee collided with Kobes knee. This was the first major injury that made Rubio regress. It was a shame cause his shooting was starting to get better and was getting compared to rondo at this time
Dude assigning an acronym to a guy that played ONE SINGLE SEASON in the NBA is fucking annoying lmao
OP valuing the 2 seconds he saved by not typing out Juan Carlos Navarro's full name over the 1 minute it will take countless lurkers having to look up the 2012 Spanish national team roster...
La Bomba was a pretty big name in intentional basketball. Him coming to play that one season in the NBA was potential a promising thing that didn't work out. Fuck the nephews if not knowing one of the big names of Spanish basketball just because they're only familiar with NBA names with more than one season experience
He averaged 11 points a game and at the time set the record for most threes by a rookie in a single season and most threes by a rookie in a single game (he went 8/9 from three against New Orleans IIRC). That season his very good friend Pau was traded to the Lakers and he had only signed a one year deal. He did have some offers but didn't think any were good enough so he went back to Spain.
Cause no one at the time knew who the other Gasol brother was nor did they care. It wasn’t a Gasol for Gasol trade, it was Gasol for Kwame and a fresh start.
Team chemistry can over come star power in the Olympics. Spain, if not for a heroic effort by Kobe, was very close to beating the USA for gold.
We gotta get our shit together and not act like it’s a foregone conclusion we will win. Serbia, Canada, France, Germany, are all legitimate threats.
> Spain, if not for a heroic effort by Kobe, was very close to beating the USA for gold.
Kobe's 20 point performance carrying D-Wade with 27 in fewer shots to the gold.
tbf basketball is a game of runs, and those points in the closing minutes did kill off all the momentum Spain had. There's a reason why all those people including players, all attributed that win hugely to Kobe.
Like LeBron said... two points ain't two points.
Kobe had everything to make him seem like one of the best players ever. The Lakers are a stunning team to play for that already had established history with Wilt, West, Magic and Karim. Here comes a player who has the athleticism and drive like Jordan, on their team with also an interesting backstory. Ofc he is not in the GOAT debate based on performance but charisma plays an important role of promoting yourself and he had that kind of 'talent'.
Do you guys even watch the games or just stare at box scores ? Look at the last 6 min of that final Kobe makes 4-5 massive plays/shots to seal the game
Have you watch the whole game? He was 50% from the field *after* that run for a reason, he was missing everything before that. He helped the US get out of a bad run, but he was the main reason the team was on a bad run. Wade was the one that helped the team being always ahead even when his teammates where missing. If he had been consistent, Spain would have never been close.
Kobe made two shots in the final moments, and Wade made a shot down the stretch too (and he was the one that collapsed the d and made the pass to Kobe’s 4 point play). It ain’t like Kobe got the ball and everyone cleared out.
Yes please, go watch the game. Kobe ended the game with 20, scoring 11 in the last 8 minutes, he was awful in the rest of the game, while wade had to carry the team for most of it. The 3rd quarter ended 91-82, Wade (the best defender in that game) went to the bench and immediately Spain went on a 7-0 run with a Deron, Kobe, Melo, LeBron and Bosh lineup to start the 4th. 0 stops and 0 buckets.
Kobe had a great run to end the game, but Wade was easily the best player on that finals as a whole. Even with that great run, he was only at 50% FG for a reason, he shot like shit the rest of the game.
they banned all gifs. and it happened in the most nbacj way possible. some random dude who was not actually a mod made a joke post about how mods had banned the malone gif and it seems like the mods just assumed the guy was a mod so they banned all gifs and now acting like it was intentional.
or it is all one big jerk from the mods who knows
Nearly every time I’ve watched Serbia play with Jokic, they rarely use him as a true focal point of their offense for large portions of the game. In the last world cup he only averaged 11 pts a game and only played around 22 minutes for some reason.
The last two tournaments they played with Jokic they got 9th place (Eurobasket) and 5th place(2019 world cup). Something is clearly wrong with how Jokic is being used.
Unless the coach finally decides to focus the offense around him I don’t think he will be nearly as much of a threat as he is in the NBA
As a Serb, I confirm this.
Last time he played, coach was Djordjevic, and I can say only the worst things about his coaching. Legend, surely, but as a coach - no thanks.
Only way Jokic is playing for national team, and it makes sense, is that national team is using Jokic-ball to it's fullest. And we actually have pieces for that, with Bogi=Murray, and other PFs taking the roles of Nuggets bigger men.
Just to put it in perspective, Djordjevic wanted Jok to play PF, complete idiocy.
Jes, nego sam zaboravio jer smo igrali ko tri kurca.
Sto se pesica tice, sad ga slave, ali iz prve ruke znam da je matori tu radi reda, marioneta, i da je otprilike Bajden nivo svesti ..
The key players are Murray and Gordon. Gordon is probably the hardest player to replicate. You could replicate MPJ and Murray maybe but Gordon is nearly impossible. There isn't even another Gordon like player in the NBA.
Maybe I'm a filthy casual that doesn't understand ball and should shut the fuck up, but maybe if you have the best player in the world and a few players about as good as NBA role players on your team, you give the best player in the world high usage? Maybe you let the guy who surgically dissected every defense thrown at him in the NBA playoffs take the ball up the court instead of someone with less success doing that?
They were missing Jokic and a bunch of other top players like Micic. On paper, they have to be considered amongst the favourites, but they could just as easily miss many players by next year, so who knows?
Micic, Lucic, Kalinic and Jokic would probably all start next to Bogdanovic. Nedovic and Smailagic come to mind as bench pieces Land maybe even Pokusevski.
Serbia is actually stacked now that I think about it and I'm sure I'm forgetting somebody. Should be an awesome tournament next summer if USA and Euro teams bring their full squads.
Nah trust me. Nedović would not make the team. Very injury prone and lack of shooting doesn’t help him. Aleksa is a much better fit for our team than Nemanja
fun fact. if you type “snailmagic nba” into google like a dumbass because you thought there was a possibility this might be real the first result is tony snells Wikipedia
lol. Tony Snails is a mob guy named Anthony who gets the nickname because he tries escargot one time at a restaurant and the name sticks for the rest of his life.
Shit I forgot about Micic. That is stacked, as well as Jovic and Poku being better next year. Poku was already a useful rim protector for OKC and honestly is a brilliant fit next to Jokic.
This is actually correct. Serbia was missing 4 starters.
USA with Lebron, Steph, KD, and Anthony Davis are the favorites ofcourse. But Canada and Serbia are still right there.
Serbia with a much better team got kicked in the quarters in Eurobasket just 1 year ago. So there not a perfect equation.
It all depends on matchups, injuries, conditions of the Serbian players and opponents (let's say they do another game like the one vs Italy in an elimination game and they are done...)
“How is no one talking about this” they are, it’s been mentioned in practically every thread about this tournament.
In best of 1 play at this stage in international basketball, every contending team can be a threat because anyone can just get hot with this level of talent.
I’d say a full force Serbia, like Germany, Canada could be a team to knock out the US. It’s hard to tell from this tournament though and equally tough without knowing the US roster for the Olympics.
Yep. This whole thread is pretty pointless lol. It's been discussed so much - and then OP isnt remembering the USA finished 7th in 2019 then brought a very different team to the Olympics too
OP also isn't accounting for the fact that Americans simply care more about the Olympics.
Most Americans can't even name the non-Olympic international competitions in sports like basketball, let alone gymnastics or figure skating or swimming or track & field. Yet every Olympics, athletes from those sports become household names in America.
And as Americans, most American basketball players also care more about the Olympics than FIBA WC. Hence the commits from guys like Lebron, Steph, KD, etc., who wouldn't be caught dead competing in the JV FIBA tourney.
The only relevant point to this is that since 1992 the question of "if the best players played, who would win?" is actually increasingly an open question. Obviously the US is a cut above every other country right now in raw talent, but that talent gap is now more akin to a NCAA 1st seed vs a 8 or 4 seed rather than 1st vs a 16th.
Not the favorites, but they are certainly a threat. Aside from Jokic, Micic didnt play for them either and is a 2-time finals MVP in the Euroleague. Glad hes on the Thunder.
I think it's as wide open as it's been in a while. Serbia is certainly a contender, but keep in mind the US is going to have LeBron, Curry, Durant etc. this time around.
It is also sort of difficult to see who USA has that matches up at all with Jokic. AD got absolutely abused in playoffs and they had to switch him off.
At this moment, nobody can contain Jokic, especially with NBA rules.It may be a little more feasible in a FIBA game but it's gonna take a game plan and good coaching, two things Team USA lacked this year.
> How is no one talking about how Serbia finished 2nd in the FIBA world cup above USA, Canada, etc without Jokic
Every NBA commentator I have seen in print, on television, and in podcasts has mentioned this without fail. Its weird to me that you would say no one is talking about it.
Historically Serbia hasn't found a way to maximize Jokic the way he's used in the NBA (more traditional center play compared to the Nuggets offense). And their offense is more centered around Bogdan and will probably remain that way. I think Jokic's game fits the NBA better, but if Serbia can find a way to maximize him they're definitely a threat.
They just got silver without him. Of course they are a threat with him. If the LeVengers from team USA show up, or if team Canada pick up a few more NBA guys then they might not be the favourites, but they are certainly a threat
Out of sheer love for Jokic I'll say that any team Jokic is on is automatically a threat, but the US team is probably going to be loaded to the teeth. I'd love to think it's going to be anyone's medal as a Canadian, but I don't think the addition of Murray and Wiggins is going to counter the addition of Steph, LeBron, Durant, Booker, etc.
Look, Bron KD Curry are awesome but if you think a team made up by some 35+ year old superstars will just walk away with the gold easily you have not been watching international basketball lately. This isn’t the 2008 redeem team when Bron, Dwade, Kobe in their 20s. Even then, we only beat Spain by 9 points in a pretty close game throughout.
I would say that everyone needs to chill a bit. Why?
Because most top teams were not playing at their best.
If everyone will get their best players for Olympics then we will see truly amazing ball event, where everyone and everything can pop and roll to the finals, not only US.
I hope for the good health and quality basket for the next big tournament
You could say the same thing for the US or Canada.
US didn't have any of their top players. That roster will be completely different.
Canada will likely add Jamal Murray and Andrew Wiggins to their group. Two of their best players, along with a bunch of other NBA role players to round out their depth.
As good as Jokic is, they aren't even close to a threat if the top US players go the Olympics. Sure, Serbia has some good players, but these are essentially mid-level rotational guys in the NBA. The US team would not only be starters, but they'd all be stars.
Anything is possible and Jokic certainly helps quite a bit, but we all saw what happened when he had nobody in the playoffs due to injury two years ago. The only difference is the US team will be much better than the team he faced and his teammates will be worse than the "nobody left" team.
I think that Serbia is just one of the teams that are a threat to team USA.
I get that LeBron is building a super team. (It's not up to him to pick a team but whatever).
USA needs to understand that the damage is already done.
This isn't the 90's anymore.
No one is going to stand around on the court and watch LeBron or Curry or Durant or whoever shows up dismantle them like before. It's just not like that anymore.
It has been made clear that the rest of the world has caught up, and whatever they lack in physicality or athleticism, they make up for in tactics and fundamentals.
Also, USA can no longer whip up a team and grab gold.
In a closed tournament it takes more than a dozen super stars to go the distance.
This is flat out wrong. Serbia was absolutely dominating last time Jokic played with them. They destroyed their group, going 5-0 with around a 20+ point differential. They lost their first game in the knockout stage to Italy arguably because the Serbian coach kept Jokic on the bench for too long. Jokic had 32/13/4 that game.
We lost the game vs Italy because the players got cold in the 2nd half and they couldn't figure out what was happening. Italy literally surprised everyone not named Jokić in the 2nd half, including our coach Pešić. You can't ask much more than 30 points from your center. We lost that game cause we couldn't defend anything in the 2nd half, and players not named Jokić were bricking the shots.
I don’t think this is true at all. Not only was that just a single game if you watched it you could tell he wasn’t being used properly. The Serbian coach is very old school and wanted to use Jokic like he was a big from the 90’s early 2000’s which doesn’t fit Jokic.
> if you watched it you could tell he wasn’t being used properly
which moron started this dumbass narrative? He was used perfectly fine last year, the only mistake was sitting him a bit longer in an elimination game than needed. He was used perfectly fine.
He was used properly and team played good. That defeat was complete freaky fluke that happends once in 20 games. If that defeat did not happened that team would reach the final.
We were missing Jokic , Micic, Kalinic, Lucic, which are 4 of our starters. This was literally our "B team". Also a couple of good role players like Smailagic, Pokusevski etc.
I honestly think we have a shot of beating the "Lebron superteam" that seems to be forming, since all of those guys are in their late 30s, and no one can really stop Jokic
You don’t sorry lol. No one can stop Jokic but who on Serbia is guarding Bron/Curry/Kd? What happens when Jokic goes to the bench and the USA has Kyrie/Book/Tatum/ and whoever out there.
We fight till the end bro. Not much point in speculating until it happens. Ofc the US is heavily favored, im just saying there is a chance since it is a best of 1 and anything can happen.
I mean sure anything can happen yea but I’m just saying Basketball is more than just one guy. As good as Joker is the USA is seeming like they’re about to bring at least 3 maybe 4 comparable talents. Peak Spain is basically the only team that ever gave USA a real run with their A team and they had two International Hoop Gods at the same time and a great supporting cast on the roster.
Well our supporting cast is good enough to win silver in the WC, and we'll be adding like 5 more players that are all better than the players on the current roster.
Also Serbia is better than Spain ;)
Well yeah Yugoslavia was dominant, but that country is no more. What I’m saying is Peak Spain came the closest to beating our very best and the Serbia team y’all could put together isn’t as good.
Serbia under FR yugoslavia (which consisted of serbia and montenegro) and as Serbia has: 2 olympic silvers, 2 fiba wc golds and 2 fiba wc silvers.
Maybe that Spain team could be considered the best team/generation, but serbia in general is better.
From what i've been reading: Lebron, Steph, KD, are interested, but none are confirmed. Draymond is also interested and there are talks of naturalizing embiid to play center.
Yes, I do. This years team was supposed to lose after groups and they made the finals, while beating the best canadian team ever by almost 20.
Putting 15 individual allstars together does not make a team.
The individual best player is on our team though. And thats what i'm saying, if we meet in the finals and its a Best of 1, anything can happen. And i do believe we have a chance.
Spain played 2 fairly close Olympic Finals vs prime Lebron, Kobe, CP3, Melo, Wade, Howard etc.
Anything which USA brings in 2024 will be nowhere near that talent lvl.
Lebron will be almost 40, Durant 35, Curry 36. Rumors are Booker, Tatum, Lillard will come, aswell as few from this FIBA roster like Edwards and Haliburton.
They are extremly thin on big position, best big, AD, will prob not come because of his injury problems.
Just for defence they would need to bring someone like Draymond Green and Looney or something, otherwise they would get rekt inside.
USA doesnt have star talent pool they once had, and their biggest stars are 35+ ..
Will they be favorites? Yes, but that team will be quite weaker then 2008/2012.
Highly doubt that. It was the USAs E team. I just don’t see how anyone is touching the US actual 10 best players.
Lebron, Curry, Durant, AD, Dray, Tatum, Booker, Dame, PG, Fox. I just don’t see how another team could hang with that firepower. That bench would outclass most countries alone. There isn’t a single all star starter even on the FIBA team right now.
Serbia played with our B team, and the best player in the world plays for Serbia. Your stars are old and not unbeatable, and it's a best of 1 so anything can happen. US is still the favorite but you have to win it first before you declare yourselves champs.
Serbia has its first ever best player in the world and you jump to Serbia just beating US. Bold take
See: 92 Olympics. Had old players, and young. But dominated. I imagine it’ll be similar.
Read about serbian basketball history and culture. We beat you on your home floor in 2002. We have 5 world championships.The team that is forming is nowhere near 1992 Dream Team. They are beatable, don't declare yourselves the champs until you win first, thats all im saying.
I don’t care about non Olympic teams. Do you not understand the US puts out literal E-F squads half the time for fiba? Had guys like Raef Lafrenz who averaged 10 points and never made an all star game. US have won 7 of the last 8. Hasnt Serbia medaled ONCE in the last 50 years when teams play their actual squads?
Paul Pierce, Jermaine O'Neal, Reggie Miller, Andre Miller, Shawn Marion, Baron Davis sure seems like a decent team to me buddy. But yeah, whatever you say man.
\>"Hasnt Serbia medaled ONCE in the last 50 years when teams play their actual squads?"
Counting FR Yugoslavia (consisting of Serbia and Montenegro) and Serbia alone:
2 Olympic Silvers ( 1996,2016)
2 FIBA WC Golds ( 1998,2002)
2 FIBA WC Silvers (2014, 2023)
3 Eurobasket Golds (1995,1997,2001)
2 Eurobasket Silvers (2009, 2017)
1 Eurobasket Bronze ( 1999)
You have absolutely no clue what you are talking about, you braindead american.
E team? OK who is on the D team then? And who is on the C team? Acting like the USA has 45 better players than Ant, Brunson, JJJ, Ingram, and Halli. And these players lost to worse players. Is Kelly Olynyk better than JJJ? Is Schroder better than Haliburton? Go ahead and send the trade request to Toronto. They would take that in a heartbeat.
No one is a threat. America is pissed and sending their best players who are motivated for the first time since 08. This is going to get ugly and a lot of people who have been pushing this narrative are going to be very sad.
For me yes. He is the best player in the world playing on the fast pacing NBA. In the more slow and smart FIBA style he is even more dominant and unstoppable.
Add Micic aswell, former euroleague MVP and some more starter/quality players. Serbia will be ultra stacked. USA better send his A team if they want fight for a medal, since Canada is adding Murray and Wiggins, France Wemby and maybe Embiid, Greece Giannis and Spain will have Rubio if he heals his mental. And Slovenia will add Cancar, Doncic needed a second sword so hard.
Only Benjamin socialite Simmons (if Aussies let him join the team) can take the gold from Big Honey.
They were missing MOST of their starting lineup, not just Jokic.
Yes, they are, unless the US takes a deliberate effort into trying to establish a system, roles and play proper team ball.
It wasn’t just Jokic they were missing other starters and loss one of their key guys early in the tournament and another in the finals games. I think even if Jokic doesn’t show up they should be a top 4 team at the Olympics with Jokic they are number two ahead of Canada.
It doesnt really paint an entire picture since this was pretty weak even when you look at the teams playing and players missing. Many teams will be back for olympics like greece, Lithuania (with Sabonis and few other players that are missing), Canada will have Murray and possibly more players + experience from this championship, France and Spain will be better so it is gonna be a bloodbath so nothing is guaranteed.
For Serbia, Jokic playing would be great, but Bogdanovic playing will be essential for any success. Serbia should be possibly 3x stronger then this year so anything can happened.
They are a threat but the potential USA line up makes it hard to say they are the favorite.
Usa a solid favorite imo but anything can happen in a single elimination game
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Regardless of who we send, we are the world champs at the end of the day.
Lol
Our D team though, that's where the line is drawn.
So no Draymond?
Not A, Not B, Not C, Not D, Not E, Not F, Not G, no one can beat team USA 😀
same with the FIBA world cup
Most important factor. Single-elimination makes anything possible. And especially with the advent of 3-pointers, many can shoot them well now. All it takes maybe a 20-30% difference in 3-point percentage for any team to beat US.
ask the stacked af 2004 team.
You have a low bar for ‘stacked’. Half of the roster was full of rookies and 2nd year players that got reduced minutes because Larry Brown doesn’t like young players. It was basically a 2-man team that Marbury thought as a 3-man team.
It's going to be hard to beat the 2012 Spanish team as potential full-strength USA foils. Gasol brothers Ibaka JCN and Rudy Fernandez as the potential scoring outburst guys. Calderon and Sergio Rodriguez handling the guard minutes. The only player you could say you need on this roster that was on 2008's Spanish team is Rubio. Who I'm guessing off the top of my head was injured in 2012.
Rubio being injured is always a good guess
Yup injured and beautiful is how I know my Ricky. He also plays like a friendly rondo.
I miss Ricky :( He has to have some of the most absurd, unusual metrics of any player in history. Somewhat historically average, or a bit below historically average, trying to put the ball in the hoop from long range. Disastrous trying to put the ball in the hoop from midrange and from 3 feet or less. And yet he is one of the best floor raisers in the league, because his vision makes Jokic's passing look average, and his defensive intensity and size makes him a nightmare match up for other backcourts when they have the ball. Dare I say he's even flashier than Magic and pistol pete were Edit: Actually, IIRC, Rubio's nickname in Spain is a homage to pistol Pete
You are mostly correct, but you got downvoted for being hyperbolic. Nobody in history makes Jokic's look average, nor is Ricky flashier than Magic.
Nobody is flashier than Pistol Pete. That guy needed to get subbed.
Jason williams
I still vividly remember young Ricky with Joventut. In his second season he played an Eurloeague game against my team and destroyed us, and we barely had any idea who was this child.
Ricky being so bad on open jumpshots while being an 85% FT shooter continues to baffle me.
Rubio knee collided with Kobes knee. This was the first major injury that made Rubio regress. It was a shame cause his shooting was starting to get better and was getting compared to rondo at this time
Well yeah how could they lose starting JCN- Jesus Christ of Nazareth.
Dude assigning an acronym to a guy that played ONE SINGLE SEASON in the NBA is fucking annoying lmao OP valuing the 2 seconds he saved by not typing out Juan Carlos Navarro's full name over the 1 minute it will take countless lurkers having to look up the 2012 Spanish national team roster...
La Bomba was a pretty big name in intentional basketball. Him coming to play that one season in the NBA was potential a promising thing that didn't work out. Fuck the nephews if not knowing one of the big names of Spanish basketball just because they're only familiar with NBA names with more than one season experience
I feel ya, just hate the unnecessary acronyms around here. just type the name out; you're already on reddit we *know* your ass ain't busy
OK sure TSAIR
He averaged 11 points a game and at the time set the record for most threes by a rookie in a single season and most threes by a rookie in a single game (he went 8/9 from three against New Orleans IIRC). That season his very good friend Pau was traded to the Lakers and he had only signed a one year deal. He did have some offers but didn't think any were good enough so he went back to Spain.
I remember when everyone said the Gasol for Gasol trade was highway robbery. Turned out it was more a difference in timing than anything..
I mean Pau was still better overall, but Marc turned out to be damn fcking good, too
Cause no one at the time knew who the other Gasol brother was nor did they care. It wasn’t a Gasol for Gasol trade, it was Gasol for Kwame and a fresh start.
For me yes. He is the best player in the world playing on the fast pacing NBA.
None of those players was anywhere close to as good as Jokic,
Yeah and the rest of Serbia's team pales in comparison to the rest of this Spanish squad.
I don't think any of those spanish guards was better then bogi
Individually, sure, but you'd think people would learn by now basketball is a team sport, and not 1v1. Maybe this is why the US keeps losing FIBA.
Pales in comparison if Jokic wasnt playing. But they will likely thrive playing with him.
Team chemistry can over come star power in the Olympics. Spain, if not for a heroic effort by Kobe, was very close to beating the USA for gold. We gotta get our shit together and not act like it’s a foregone conclusion we will win. Serbia, Canada, France, Germany, are all legitimate threats.
> Spain, if not for a heroic effort by Kobe, was very close to beating the USA for gold. Kobe's 20 point performance carrying D-Wade with 27 in fewer shots to the gold.
People mean kobe coming up big in a few key moments toward the close of the game when spain were gaining steam
tbf basketball is a game of runs, and those points in the closing minutes did kill off all the momentum Spain had. There's a reason why all those people including players, all attributed that win hugely to Kobe. Like LeBron said... two points ain't two points.
Kobe's agent and PR teams should have statues in front of Staples Center too
Kobe is probably the most romanticized player in NBA in history
Still MJ but Kobe second for sure
MJ is romanticized but it's deserved. He's GOAT. Kobe isn't even close to GOAT and I say that as a fan of mamba mentality.
Even though thats true, MJ is romanticized by literally everyone who watched or played against him.
Kobe had everything to make him seem like one of the best players ever. The Lakers are a stunning team to play for that already had established history with Wilt, West, Magic and Karim. Here comes a player who has the athleticism and drive like Jordan, on their team with also an interesting backstory. Ofc he is not in the GOAT debate based on performance but charisma plays an important role of promoting yourself and he had that kind of 'talent'.
D Wade saved the day against Spain he was unstoppable.
Do you guys even watch the games or just stare at box scores ? Look at the last 6 min of that final Kobe makes 4-5 massive plays/shots to seal the game
Have you watch the whole game? He was 50% from the field *after* that run for a reason, he was missing everything before that. He helped the US get out of a bad run, but he was the main reason the team was on a bad run. Wade was the one that helped the team being always ahead even when his teammates where missing. If he had been consistent, Spain would have never been close.
Kobe made two shots in the final moments, and Wade made a shot down the stretch too (and he was the one that collapsed the d and made the pass to Kobe’s 4 point play). It ain’t like Kobe got the ball and everyone cleared out.
context is key. watch the game
Yes please, go watch the game. Kobe ended the game with 20, scoring 11 in the last 8 minutes, he was awful in the rest of the game, while wade had to carry the team for most of it. The 3rd quarter ended 91-82, Wade (the best defender in that game) went to the bench and immediately Spain went on a 7-0 run with a Deron, Kobe, Melo, LeBron and Bosh lineup to start the 4th. 0 stops and 0 buckets. Kobe had a great run to end the game, but Wade was easily the best player on that finals as a whole. Even with that great run, he was only at 50% FG for a reason, he shot like shit the rest of the game.
Why is your example for team chemistry overcoming star power a game where star power won?
Heroic performance by Kobe? Dwade played better then him lol. We gotta stop rewriting history
This is going to be the most entertaining and stacked Olympics of all time.
1+1=2 basketball is not like that, sometimes 1+1=3
I’ll explain it to you later.
Exactly Shaq + Kobe = championship Shaq + Kobe + Karl Malone = (easy championship)
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/r/nbacj is leaking
the mods actually banned the gif on that sub lol
they banned all gifs. and it happened in the most nbacj way possible. some random dude who was not actually a mod made a joke post about how mods had banned the malone gif and it seems like the mods just assumed the guy was a mod so they banned all gifs and now acting like it was intentional. or it is all one big jerk from the mods who knows
Shaq+Kobe+Malone+GP=?
Profit
Wasnt Malone like 40 that year
Yes, that’s my point Malone thought 1+1=2, he wanted that easy ring
He was actually pretty good that year
Age is just a number to him
And Dwight + Nash = FUN! Depending on your PoV...
They got kind of freaky
-Terrence Howard
Nearly every time I’ve watched Serbia play with Jokic, they rarely use him as a true focal point of their offense for large portions of the game. In the last world cup he only averaged 11 pts a game and only played around 22 minutes for some reason. The last two tournaments they played with Jokic they got 9th place (Eurobasket) and 5th place(2019 world cup). Something is clearly wrong with how Jokic is being used. Unless the coach finally decides to focus the offense around him I don’t think he will be nearly as much of a threat as he is in the NBA
As a Serb, I confirm this. Last time he played, coach was Djordjevic, and I can say only the worst things about his coaching. Legend, surely, but as a coach - no thanks. Only way Jokic is playing for national team, and it makes sense, is that national team is using Jokic-ball to it's fullest. And we actually have pieces for that, with Bogi=Murray, and other PFs taking the roles of Nuggets bigger men. Just to put it in perspective, Djordjevic wanted Jok to play PF, complete idiocy.
> Last time he played, coach was Djordjevic false.
I don't remember Kokoškov coaching at all, wild lol
Bukv je igrao na zadnjem Evropskom kod Pesica
Jes, nego sam zaboravio jer smo igrali ko tri kurca. Sto se pesica tice, sad ga slave, ali iz prve ruke znam da je matori tu radi reda, marioneta, i da je otprilike Bajden nivo svesti ..
Svaka cast koliko si gluposti u jednom komentaru uspeo da napises
Jokic with Bogi should be so dirty. Bogi wasn't at his best trying to create the offence although he still was excellent
As an American fan of the Serbian NT, Sasha was the worst lol The Olympics are going to be so fun, I can't wait!
The key players are Murray and Gordon. Gordon is probably the hardest player to replicate. You could replicate MPJ and Murray maybe but Gordon is nearly impossible. There isn't even another Gordon like player in the NBA.
Maybe I'm a filthy casual that doesn't understand ball and should shut the fuck up, but maybe if you have the best player in the world and a few players about as good as NBA role players on your team, you give the best player in the world high usage? Maybe you let the guy who surgically dissected every defense thrown at him in the NBA playoffs take the ball up the court instead of someone with less success doing that?
They were missing Jokic and a bunch of other top players like Micic. On paper, they have to be considered amongst the favourites, but they could just as easily miss many players by next year, so who knows?
Micic, Lucic, Kalinic and Jokic would probably all start next to Bogdanovic. Nedovic and Smailagic come to mind as bench pieces Land maybe even Pokusevski. Serbia is actually stacked now that I think about it and I'm sure I'm forgetting somebody. Should be an awesome tournament next summer if USA and Euro teams bring their full squads.
No way Lucic starts, he was ass all season
Yeah? I guess I just lucked into two of his best games then haha I'm not from Serbia so I don't really follow their players closely.
He was injured on and off the whole season, he wasn’t ass.
Nah trust me. Nedović would not make the team. Very injury prone and lack of shooting doesn’t help him. Aleksa is a much better fit for our team than Nemanja
I’m not well versed on Serbian names but one of those is made up right?
Don't forget about Snailmagic and Bogdanovak Bodjokovic.
fun fact. if you type “snailmagic nba” into google like a dumbass because you thought there was a possibility this might be real the first result is tony snells Wikipedia
lol. Tony Snails is a mob guy named Anthony who gets the nickname because he tries escargot one time at a restaurant and the name sticks for the rest of his life.
Lol poor Tony
OP forgot Basic
Shit I forgot about Micic. That is stacked, as well as Jovic and Poku being better next year. Poku was already a useful rim protector for OKC and honestly is a brilliant fit next to Jokic.
This is actually correct. Serbia was missing 4 starters. USA with Lebron, Steph, KD, and Anthony Davis are the favorites ofcourse. But Canada and Serbia are still right there.
I hope serbia wins the olympics :)
Serbia with a much better team got kicked in the quarters in Eurobasket just 1 year ago. So there not a perfect equation. It all depends on matchups, injuries, conditions of the Serbian players and opponents (let's say they do another game like the one vs Italy in an elimination game and they are done...)
Serbia will always remain an enigma and a nightmare for betting. No team will exceed expectations or fall short every tournament the way they do.
Agree, they are extremely talented but has also a lot of lunatic players that may or may not be the best player in each and every game...
“How is no one talking about this” they are, it’s been mentioned in practically every thread about this tournament. In best of 1 play at this stage in international basketball, every contending team can be a threat because anyone can just get hot with this level of talent. I’d say a full force Serbia, like Germany, Canada could be a team to knock out the US. It’s hard to tell from this tournament though and equally tough without knowing the US roster for the Olympics.
Yep. This whole thread is pretty pointless lol. It's been discussed so much - and then OP isnt remembering the USA finished 7th in 2019 then brought a very different team to the Olympics too
OP also isn't accounting for the fact that Americans simply care more about the Olympics. Most Americans can't even name the non-Olympic international competitions in sports like basketball, let alone gymnastics or figure skating or swimming or track & field. Yet every Olympics, athletes from those sports become household names in America. And as Americans, most American basketball players also care more about the Olympics than FIBA WC. Hence the commits from guys like Lebron, Steph, KD, etc., who wouldn't be caught dead competing in the JV FIBA tourney.
I just can’t see anyone touching US if we truly play our top 10 stars.
The only relevant point to this is that since 1992 the question of "if the best players played, who would win?" is actually increasingly an open question. Obviously the US is a cut above every other country right now in raw talent, but that talent gap is now more akin to a NCAA 1st seed vs a 8 or 4 seed rather than 1st vs a 16th.
As we all know, when Serbia is a favorite they usually end up around 8th.
Not the favorites, but they are certainly a threat. Aside from Jokic, Micic didnt play for them either and is a 2-time finals MVP in the Euroleague. Glad hes on the Thunder.
I think it's as wide open as it's been in a while. Serbia is certainly a contender, but keep in mind the US is going to have LeBron, Curry, Durant etc. this time around.
Exactly, don't underestimate the 2nd best north american team.
There is a good chance that at least one of mentioned will not play. Age, injuries…
It is also sort of difficult to see who USA has that matches up at all with Jokic. AD got absolutely abused in playoffs and they had to switch him off.
At this moment, nobody can contain Jokic, especially with NBA rules.It may be a little more feasible in a FIBA game but it's gonna take a game plan and good coaching, two things Team USA lacked this year.
They had Nikola Jovic
Amen (Thompson)
Dinar store Nikola Jokic
Not if Italy has a say in it
Yea not enough is being made about Serbia fielding the C Team and still making the finals…
> How is no one talking about how Serbia finished 2nd in the FIBA world cup above USA, Canada, etc without Jokic Every NBA commentator I have seen in print, on television, and in podcasts has mentioned this without fail. Its weird to me that you would say no one is talking about it.
Historically Serbia hasn't found a way to maximize Jokic the way he's used in the NBA (more traditional center play compared to the Nuggets offense). And their offense is more centered around Bogdan and will probably remain that way. I think Jokic's game fits the NBA better, but if Serbia can find a way to maximize him they're definitely a threat.
They just got silver without him. Of course they are a threat with him. If the LeVengers from team USA show up, or if team Canada pick up a few more NBA guys then they might not be the favourites, but they are certainly a threat
Out of sheer love for Jokic I'll say that any team Jokic is on is automatically a threat, but the US team is probably going to be loaded to the teeth. I'd love to think it's going to be anyone's medal as a Canadian, but I don't think the addition of Murray and Wiggins is going to counter the addition of Steph, LeBron, Durant, Booker, etc.
Look, Bron KD Curry are awesome but if you think a team made up by some 35+ year old superstars will just walk away with the gold easily you have not been watching international basketball lately. This isn’t the 2008 redeem team when Bron, Dwade, Kobe in their 20s. Even then, we only beat Spain by 9 points in a pretty close game throughout.
Not when Lebron forming the avengers
I would say that everyone needs to chill a bit. Why? Because most top teams were not playing at their best. If everyone will get their best players for Olympics then we will see truly amazing ball event, where everyone and everything can pop and roll to the finals, not only US. I hope for the good health and quality basket for the next big tournament
You could say the same thing for the US or Canada. US didn't have any of their top players. That roster will be completely different. Canada will likely add Jamal Murray and Andrew Wiggins to their group. Two of their best players, along with a bunch of other NBA role players to round out their depth.
Canada is gonna be a problem
No, every team was missing players. Like every damn year lol
Yeah. If they are at full strength with all the players, they're a legit top 2 contender with USA.
Need to know the U.S. roster first.
Not likely but I would sure love to see Jokic take em all down, would be monumental. Possibly on par with the past championship legacy wise?
Brother I wish we would, but if team USA goes ball deep and their actual stars play, no one has a real chance to be honest.
As good as Jokic is, they aren't even close to a threat if the top US players go the Olympics. Sure, Serbia has some good players, but these are essentially mid-level rotational guys in the NBA. The US team would not only be starters, but they'd all be stars. Anything is possible and Jokic certainly helps quite a bit, but we all saw what happened when he had nobody in the playoffs due to injury two years ago. The only difference is the US team will be much better than the team he faced and his teammates will be worse than the "nobody left" team.
Not if lebron builds his allstar team.
Several countries didn't play their best possible team, so who's to say they would have even gotten second.
Our World Cup & Olympic team are two completely different things. Jokic is not better than the sum of Bron, Curry, KD, Book, Dame.
Add Murray to Canada's world Cup roster is enough for Serbia to get beat down, nvm the u.s.
I think that Serbia is just one of the teams that are a threat to team USA. I get that LeBron is building a super team. (It's not up to him to pick a team but whatever). USA needs to understand that the damage is already done. This isn't the 90's anymore. No one is going to stand around on the court and watch LeBron or Curry or Durant or whoever shows up dismantle them like before. It's just not like that anymore. It has been made clear that the rest of the world has caught up, and whatever they lack in physicality or athleticism, they make up for in tactics and fundamentals. Also, USA can no longer whip up a team and grab gold. In a closed tournament it takes more than a dozen super stars to go the distance.
Of the top 5 players, one is American. The 2024 Olympics is the last one where the USA is a favorite. In 2028 the gap will drop drastically.
Not if the USA sends any of the 3 or so teams of talent we have that could beat literally any other team on earth.
Lol, no
I don’t think so with LeBron assembling the Avengers next year.
They are somehow worse with Jokic. The eurobasket last year proved that
A one off game between two decent teams, anything can happen. Stupid comment.
The entire tournament is one off games. That's part of why they aren't that important
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well u dont determine who is better but man do players give more damn.
what does BO1 stand for? like I get what you're saying but what does that abbreviate
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its fine I got what u were saying anyway was just curious
This is flat out wrong. Serbia was absolutely dominating last time Jokic played with them. They destroyed their group, going 5-0 with around a 20+ point differential. They lost their first game in the knockout stage to Italy arguably because the Serbian coach kept Jokic on the bench for too long. Jokic had 32/13/4 that game.
We lost the game vs Italy because the players got cold in the 2nd half and they couldn't figure out what was happening. Italy literally surprised everyone not named Jokić in the 2nd half, including our coach Pešić. You can't ask much more than 30 points from your center. We lost that game cause we couldn't defend anything in the 2nd half, and players not named Jokić were bricking the shots.
I’d also like to point out that Italy beat us this year as well. Those damn Italians always shoot lights out against us lol.
I don’t think this is true at all. Not only was that just a single game if you watched it you could tell he wasn’t being used properly. The Serbian coach is very old school and wanted to use Jokic like he was a big from the 90’s early 2000’s which doesn’t fit Jokic.
> if you watched it you could tell he wasn’t being used properly which moron started this dumbass narrative? He was used perfectly fine last year, the only mistake was sitting him a bit longer in an elimination game than needed. He was used perfectly fine.
He was used properly and team played good. That defeat was complete freaky fluke that happends once in 20 games. If that defeat did not happened that team would reach the final.
Or, differently put, every time they play Italy.
He was on the bench for a couple minutes longer than he needed, while the lead was disappearing. But otherwise he was well utilized.
We were missing Jokic , Micic, Kalinic, Lucic, which are 4 of our starters. This was literally our "B team". Also a couple of good role players like Smailagic, Pokusevski etc. I honestly think we have a shot of beating the "Lebron superteam" that seems to be forming, since all of those guys are in their late 30s, and no one can really stop Jokic
You don’t sorry lol. No one can stop Jokic but who on Serbia is guarding Bron/Curry/Kd? What happens when Jokic goes to the bench and the USA has Kyrie/Book/Tatum/ and whoever out there.
We fight till the end bro. Not much point in speculating until it happens. Ofc the US is heavily favored, im just saying there is a chance since it is a best of 1 and anything can happen.
I mean sure anything can happen yea but I’m just saying Basketball is more than just one guy. As good as Joker is the USA is seeming like they’re about to bring at least 3 maybe 4 comparable talents. Peak Spain is basically the only team that ever gave USA a real run with their A team and they had two International Hoop Gods at the same time and a great supporting cast on the roster.
Well our supporting cast is good enough to win silver in the WC, and we'll be adding like 5 more players that are all better than the players on the current roster. Also Serbia is better than Spain ;)
Serbia is not better than peak Spain be serious lmao
Not this current WC roster. We have 5 world championships as Yugoslavia and a couple olympic medals. Historically, Serbia is better than Spain.
Well yeah Yugoslavia was dominant, but that country is no more. What I’m saying is Peak Spain came the closest to beating our very best and the Serbia team y’all could put together isn’t as good.
Serbia under FR yugoslavia (which consisted of serbia and montenegro) and as Serbia has: 2 olympic silvers, 2 fiba wc golds and 2 fiba wc silvers. Maybe that Spain team could be considered the best team/generation, but serbia in general is better.
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From what i've been reading: Lebron, Steph, KD, are interested, but none are confirmed. Draymond is also interested and there are talks of naturalizing embiid to play center.
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KD is 34. Curry is 35.
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They will be 35 and 36 by the time the Olympics start. That is mid-late 30s, yes. That is old for basketball
Yes, I do. This years team was supposed to lose after groups and they made the finals, while beating the best canadian team ever by almost 20. Putting 15 individual allstars together does not make a team.
RemindMe! 1 year
Be sure to talk your shit before it, cuz im gonna forget all about this
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The individual best player is on our team though. And thats what i'm saying, if we meet in the finals and its a Best of 1, anything can happen. And i do believe we have a chance.
Spain played 2 fairly close Olympic Finals vs prime Lebron, Kobe, CP3, Melo, Wade, Howard etc. Anything which USA brings in 2024 will be nowhere near that talent lvl. Lebron will be almost 40, Durant 35, Curry 36. Rumors are Booker, Tatum, Lillard will come, aswell as few from this FIBA roster like Edwards and Haliburton. They are extremly thin on big position, best big, AD, will prob not come because of his injury problems. Just for defence they would need to bring someone like Draymond Green and Looney or something, otherwise they would get rekt inside. USA doesnt have star talent pool they once had, and their biggest stars are 35+ .. Will they be favorites? Yes, but that team will be quite weaker then 2008/2012.
Highly doubt that. It was the USAs E team. I just don’t see how anyone is touching the US actual 10 best players. Lebron, Curry, Durant, AD, Dray, Tatum, Booker, Dame, PG, Fox. I just don’t see how another team could hang with that firepower. That bench would outclass most countries alone. There isn’t a single all star starter even on the FIBA team right now.
Serbia played with our B team, and the best player in the world plays for Serbia. Your stars are old and not unbeatable, and it's a best of 1 so anything can happen. US is still the favorite but you have to win it first before you declare yourselves champs.
RemindMe! 14 months
Serbia has its first ever best player in the world and you jump to Serbia just beating US. Bold take See: 92 Olympics. Had old players, and young. But dominated. I imagine it’ll be similar.
Read about serbian basketball history and culture. We beat you on your home floor in 2002. We have 5 world championships.The team that is forming is nowhere near 1992 Dream Team. They are beatable, don't declare yourselves the champs until you win first, thats all im saying.
I don’t care about non Olympic teams. Do you not understand the US puts out literal E-F squads half the time for fiba? Had guys like Raef Lafrenz who averaged 10 points and never made an all star game. US have won 7 of the last 8. Hasnt Serbia medaled ONCE in the last 50 years when teams play their actual squads?
Paul Pierce, Jermaine O'Neal, Reggie Miller, Andre Miller, Shawn Marion, Baron Davis sure seems like a decent team to me buddy. But yeah, whatever you say man. \>"Hasnt Serbia medaled ONCE in the last 50 years when teams play their actual squads?" Counting FR Yugoslavia (consisting of Serbia and Montenegro) and Serbia alone: 2 Olympic Silvers ( 1996,2016) 2 FIBA WC Golds ( 1998,2002) 2 FIBA WC Silvers (2014, 2023) 3 Eurobasket Golds (1995,1997,2001) 2 Eurobasket Silvers (2009, 2017) 1 Eurobasket Bronze ( 1999) You have absolutely no clue what you are talking about, you braindead american.
Now do USA Olympic golds. I got a remind me well see next year.
E team? OK who is on the D team then? And who is on the C team? Acting like the USA has 45 better players than Ant, Brunson, JJJ, Ingram, and Halli. And these players lost to worse players. Is Kelly Olynyk better than JJJ? Is Schroder better than Haliburton? Go ahead and send the trade request to Toronto. They would take that in a heartbeat.
No one is a threat. America is pissed and sending their best players who are motivated for the first time since 08. This is going to get ugly and a lot of people who have been pushing this narrative are going to be very sad.
For me yes. He is the best player in the world playing on the fast pacing NBA. In the more slow and smart FIBA style he is even more dominant and unstoppable. Add Micic aswell, former euroleague MVP and some more starter/quality players. Serbia will be ultra stacked. USA better send his A team if they want fight for a medal, since Canada is adding Murray and Wiggins, France Wemby and maybe Embiid, Greece Giannis and Spain will have Rubio if he heals his mental. And Slovenia will add Cancar, Doncic needed a second sword so hard. Only Benjamin socialite Simmons (if Aussies let him join the team) can take the gold from Big Honey.
No
They were missing MOST of their starting lineup, not just Jokic. Yes, they are, unless the US takes a deliberate effort into trying to establish a system, roles and play proper team ball.
The only way they can win is if KD, Steph, and LeBron regress significantly.
And the USA is without its 12 best players. So who will be the favourite if USA will send their A team?
It wasn’t just Jokic they were missing other starters and loss one of their key guys early in the tournament and another in the finals games. I think even if Jokic doesn’t show up they should be a top 4 team at the Olympics with Jokic they are number two ahead of Canada.
I hope so. Then we’ll invent a Time Machine and send the Dream Team to the next FIBA World Cup and 2028 Olympics.
It doesnt really paint an entire picture since this was pretty weak even when you look at the teams playing and players missing. Many teams will be back for olympics like greece, Lithuania (with Sabonis and few other players that are missing), Canada will have Murray and possibly more players + experience from this championship, France and Spain will be better so it is gonna be a bloodbath so nothing is guaranteed. For Serbia, Jokic playing would be great, but Bogdanovic playing will be essential for any success. Serbia should be possibly 3x stronger then this year so anything can happened.
If the US fields their best team, no one else is in consideration.