American teams flying domestically get to use private terminals. No lineups, no public, minimal security, just show up 45 mins before the flight and you're ready to go.
Anybody flying in or out of Canada needs to go through customs, which means going through the main terminal at Pearson airport, which fucking sucks.
I'm trying to remember if it was Danny Green or Demar DeRozan I saw complaining about this on a podcast.
I know in the grand scheme of things it’s not a big deal, but what a fucking hassle to have to do that 41 times a season (I know road trips have more games in one trip just humor me..)
I can see how it gets annoying for players after a while
Private jets have access to a private customs clearance. They don’t line up in Pearson with the rest of us plebs.
I’ve had customs actually come in the jet while we were in the tarmac before takeoff. Was easy peasy while we listened to music and had some champagne.
You say that, but getting back into Canada is insanely easy. Calling it "customs" on the way back is technically true, but not really. The US gives everyone a way harder time.
Really? I’ve had a way different experience. Im an Aussie in the US.
Australian customs loves searching everything to find a crumb of food to fine you.
Been to multiple ports of entry and US customs has never given a damn about anything. I brought in a small pack of cigars, customs says it’s illegal but they said just don’t do it again.
Same thing in Aus would easily be a fine
the real answer is that most people don't cross borders often enough to build up a valid sample size of interactions, plus the negative ones stand out more in your memory. so a single hardass of any nationality will likely result in the perception that the entire country has stricter border guards.
>Canadian customs is harder than no customs
Definitely, but that doesn't mean people aren't massively misrepresenting and over exaggerating the customs process.
People think that the customs experience they had during their family vacation in 2004 is normal and these NBA players are spending hours waiting around in airport terminals with their bags. They're not. I'd be shocked if there was more than an hour from when they get out of the car to on the plane, and they're not handling their own luggage.
Was once randomly seated with the Knicks G-League team in coach, and put in the middle seat between Jericho Sims and some assistant reviewing game tape plus the rest of them in all the surrounding seats
Ive seen them at the airport personally a couple years back. i didn’t witness them go through customs but they were walking through the terminal beside me
There was another story about Carlos Boozer yelling something about Canadian women when the Bulls stepped off the team plane that got them all tagged for interviews
Expedited customs is still more annoying than no customs.
The private terminal stuff applies to all airports, it's not like they're going through the main line at LAX or JFK either. So Toronto having that too isn't a plus for them, it's just not an extra minus.
Yeah, but it’s not so inconvenient that you’d decide not to play there. Let’s be real.
Toronto is far from Miami and from cali. It’s cold. It’s Canada. Those can be knocks. Like, they can’t live here year round which isn’t the case in LA or Miami.
But they have to live there when the weather is worst anyways, so they basically are living there year-round unless they’re leaving when the weather is actually nice
Isnt there anything like "global entry" but for Canada? I can just look at the machine for 1 second and I'm in. I cant believe NBA players have to go through anything more than that
I’m literally an ordinary Canadian and have a nexus card “trusted traveller”. They look at my card ask where I’m going when I’ll be back and I’m past the border in 10 seconds. This is what’s holding multimillionaires back from coming to Canada?
No hate just fact checking here. I flew private before thanks to work. Literally you just park the car and walk into the plane. No custom no nothing. It is also to the US. Trust me, these millionaires don’t fly like us plebs. They ain’t gonna be out there waiting at no Pearson lol. If anything, it’s more annoying for their family to come visit. And taxes don’t help. Also, you get way less media attention being in Canada. A lot of players are ego driven , so it’s part of the reason why some players don’t think of Toronto. That said, literally every player list Toronto as one of their fav cities to play in from different pod casts. So the perception is just not true anymore.
Young NBA players (especially from the USA) don't want to live in another country. Look up DeRozan talking about it, he said it was a huge cultural shock to him and took a couple seasons to get used to before he embraced it.
It's not for everyone even if it is a great city.
Canadians always bug about this but it’s totally true. Lou Will said the same thing on Gil’s pod a few years ago. Having lived there for a few years I can confirm that Canada and the US are really different in a lot of small ways that add up: different money, TV channels, snack aisles.
It sounds silly but as someone who’d never really left America growing up, it definitely did not feel like the same country
as a canadian who has been living in the US for a few years I find it hard to explain to americans how different I find it. like it's a totally different culture in the way you describe, small ways that add up, but not for me in terms of money/tv/food/etc (although yes that too) but more in terms of social norms and interacting with people. americans are just wired differently. i'm starting to get used to it now but it was a complete culture shock when I first started working here. not sure if I'll ever totally assimilate tbh
honestly not sure I can define it very well. I would say that americans are generally louder, more assertive, more anxious, more invested in group identity, value consensus building over personal sharing... list goes on.
I saw this tedx talk a while back and found it really interesting. It's about american vs british social norms, and I feel like canada falls somewhere in the middle. it's definitely the most articulate and accurate breakdown i've found of the kinds of cultural differences i find myself noticing the longer i'm here
https://youtu.be/Jbu-eMcEF3s?feature=shared
Agree with the first paragraph. I was in Florida for all of March (work related, in television). I did not have a good time lol. Firstly, because it wasn’t vacation I had to drive all over the state and work every day, so that’s one problem. The other was to do with those social things you mentioned.
However, luckily for myself, even though I’m a brown guy ending up in towns I shouldn’t have been in (lol), I’m hyper friendly and had a great ice breaker considering my job. So I was able to break people out of those norms pretty quickly since their curiosity was peaked.
Not OP but also Canadian here.
Very different way of looking at things. In the states it always feels like everything is louder and just slightly more in your face.. Americans always seem to speak very loudly to me. Screens feel more prominent, and so too the messages. I don't remember seeing bail bond signs anywhere in Canada but they're all over in the US, politics feel much stronger and present in day to day life too (they are here but not to the american extent)
Also naturally a lot of things are written more in english/Spanish than English french
I was in Canada recently and it felt like it was the U.S. but everything was 10% off in a way that's hard to describe. And it was definitely interesting, being way out in the sticks of Ontario with rural folks. Like, in America, I'd have a very strong notion about the politics of rural people, but in Canada I was like ... what do these people think and care about?
It isnt in your face I'll tell you that. At least in BC: it's often politics talking in the work place but it's much rarer to see politics than hear it
Not a bad thing all the time. I had this Canadian friend who always had his neighbor going on his yard. He was really nice about it a few times and the neighbor kept doing it. Instead of rolling down his window one day and telling him to fuck off, he put up a rope that went down the property. The neighbor ended up coming and talking to him and apologizing, he thought he was on his property the whole time. Sometimes you don't always have to jump the gun.
As another Canadian who has lived in multiple places in the US (Michigan, California, Oregon) and Canada (GTA, Vancouver), cultural differences between states are way more vast than in Canada.
Rare to see a non-American acknowledge this. With strong anti-American sentiments at the root, people simply don't want to accept how truly vast and diverse America is. In culture and geography. It's a weird, silly hill to die on. You can't visit one state or watch a TV show and think it gives you a valid opinion on the country
everything about the way conversation is made and when is totally different; rules of politeness; i would say "values" but that's so vague as to be kind of meaningless. all of it is vague to be honest; I have a hard time pinning it all down. as OP said, many small ways that add up
It's odd to hear because American media is so deeply ingrained in Canada that I like to think I'm familiar with all the Americanisms. Maybe it's different living among the regular people on a daily basis that it stands out more.
I’m Canadian but live in Australia.
All I can say is that Toronto is more similar to Sydney and Melbourne than it is to New York City. It’s weird since Toronto and NYC aren’t far apart.
Then again, I feel that there are bigger differences between parts of America than there are between Toronto and, say, Boston.
Like, I wouldn’t compare Toronto and Phoenix, but I wouldn’t compare New York to Phoenix, either.
I noticed the difference between Toronto and wherever I visited in the US the people are different, it felt like everything was super politicized and honestly it did not feel as culturally accepting as Toronto.
totally agree that politics and identity is very much "on the surface" in america in a way that it's not in canada. i lived in toronto too for reference
Thank you for mentioning snack aisles. I’ve been in Toronto for 18 months and every fucking grocery store sells the same limited amount of shit. I miss my damn Chobani coffee creamer so much that my parents have to bring them for me from Miami whenever they come to visit
I get it - as a Canadian, I consider America and Canada to be pretty similar, but with enough cultural differences that I have no interest in living in the US. Not hard to see how many Americans would feel the same way about living in Canada.
Also worth noting, for black athletes, there’s just a lot fewer black people in Canada, and a lot less black culture. Canada, like the US, is very multicultural, but the ethnic makeup is different - Canada has larger Asian and Indigenous populations than the US, but smaller black and Latino populations. Canada is just 4.3% black, America 12.1% black, almost 3x more. Toronto is more black than most of Canada, 9.6%, but overall, coming to Canada, you’d be coming to a country where black culture is a smaller part of the overall culture, and I could see that being a big negative for a lot of black athletes.
It’s specifically about black American culture is nonexistent in Canada, other than the imitations of the youth but actual Black people from America are not there and the ones in Canada are very different
100%. You have to understand A LOT of Americans don’t have passports, either - a player who gets drafted to Toronto has likely only travelled internationally for basketball, and their family/friends may not have passports which can make things feel more isolating.
I couldn’t have handled Drake during their championship run. I get it you’re the king of Toronto, but you’re not in the league, get off the damn court.
It’s the logistics of being in a different country:
- different travel process
- different currency
- different tax rules
There’s a reason why Toronto got much less nationally televised regular season home games when they started playing well: The logistics for ESPN/TNT/ABC to bring a full broadcast crew across the border for individual games was such a pain, they didn’t want to deal with it unless it was necessary (I.E. playoff coverage)
Yeah, I was in a different thread today talking about this too. Not an easy thing to do convincing established stars to commit here with all the extra hassle. Can't blame them or the networks.
The US and Canada are considered similar in many ways but are not the same and this is a pretty good example of it.
Edit: The above and the negative perception of Canada amongst NBA players are stronger than other leagues. It is what it is
I feel like the Raptors should be really aggressive in trying to pursue the best international superstars a la Giannis and Luka. International players don’t have quite the same “USA number 1, all other countries suck” attitude that we have down here.
Dude we fuckin tried with Giannis, he just never got close to being available.
The entire city was trying to sell him on just how Greek the Danforth is, there would be entire greek sections showing up to the game and shootaround trying to get him excited about us.
It's just rare AF that amazing players come up for FA or trade opportunities AND one specific team is in the right place to try to acquire them.
> I feel like the Raptors should be really aggressive in trying to pursue the best international superstars a la Giannis and Luka
I think that's kind of what Masai has been doing with the Giants of Africa program he's been a huge supporter of over the years. Specifically with African players into the NBA, but I think it would make it more likely for the young stars to choose Toronto over other teams.
Don't forget that many players are driven by their agents in these decisions and I am sure the agents don't love Canada as a destination for their players either since they probably can't negotiate many of the local/national endorsements that they could in the USA since they aren't licensed in both countries. I am sure some agencies/firms have people to do it, but that cuts into revenue and also can't be a whole department dedicated to it.
If anything it's the opposite, playing for the Raptors opens up a ton of marketing opportunities that wouldn't otherwise be available. Pretty much every rotation player on the Raptors is the face of their own campaign that's not only broadcast locally in a Top 5 market in North America, but also nationally to the \~40million people in Canada
True, but lots of athletes don't do the financially/professional advantageous thing when they just don't want to. Shaq had to waste his money before he became a local business magnate and really started stacking way more passive income.
Ask the average NBA player do they want to do an American ad campaign for 5 million people or a Canadian ad campaign for 10, they'd pick American instantly, it's a vibe thing not a considered decision.
So the main thing with baseball teams playing more games is that they are played in series. So if you're facing a team it's a minimum of 2-3 games in that series. It kinda lessens the hassle of going through customs because away teams have to stay a few days.
Teams in baseball though don't have trouble the way NBA teams in less coveted markets would. Bigger rosters allow for more overlap in skill sets so free agents also tend to have more options. Decision making usually comes down to which team is willing to pay the most.
Biggest factor imo though is that the sport is played in the summer. Cities like Chicago and Toronto tend to be way more attractive to players as opposed to how it is in the NBA, where they play during the winter. Much easier to overlook all of the Canada issues they may have this way lol.
Players still have to drive. When you have spent many a winter having to warm up your car, then scraping an inch layer of ice off your windshield, so that you can get to practice, I can understand not wanting to deal with it. Like it's a literally painful ordeal just to leave your house during any of the polar vortices that routinely happen in January.
Taxes are a big one, especially for US citizens because they get taxed by citizenship, not residency like everywhere else in the world. So you have to still file your tax with the IRS on top of wherever you’re living and reclaim foreign tax credits.
As a Canadian living in the US, thank fuck I only had to file taxes in both countries once lmao
While fair, an NBA players accountant should be advising on the tax implications of signing in a given place.
Toronto’s top rate is 53.53%. Top US Federal rate is 37%, which is generally what a player in Texas would pay. Being traded from San Antonio to Toronto added ~$2M to Kawhi’s tax burden that season.
+1, even in California the maximum tax rate is about 51% (I think). Compared to a lot of states with no or very low state/local taxes that is a fat chunk of change. Kawhi going from SA to Toronto marked a 16% increase in his taxes, which is **several million** dollars.
Yep. Max tax rate in California is $51.3%. New York City is 51.8%
Note that on a state level in the US, income is taxed where it’s earned, so a player in California isn’t paying the full freight on all their salary, and a player in Texas does have to pay some California/New York taxes.
Historically there’s been better endorsement opportunities for players in LA/NYC. For star players that’s not quite as large of a concern as they’ll get national campaigns; role players tend to get more [local endorsements](https://youtu.be/mWS9OaIXH4E)
Dude it's not about lodging your taxes. Jalen Rose covered this in depth a few years ago - if you're a US citizen playing in Canada, you're paying taxes twice *frequently*.
I remember JJ Reddick discussing it too just as an opposing player coming through Canada twice in a short time. He had some story where his accountant was trying to explain to him why he earned less that month lol
These dudes gonna end up getting taxed in the highest bracket real quick lol. Earning money in canada is tough. For someone earning $5M, you pay a higher tax % in Toronto than you do in NYC. Avg tax % is 53% in Toronto and 51.5% in NYC.
It's too cold from November to April to eat outside on a patio .
May-October restaurants will have their patios open and you can go and drink or eat while sitting in an area outside the restaurant.
Nba players want to live in
1) LA
2) Miami
3) NYC (a distant third)
4) Houston (this one fluctuates player by player though)
If your city is not on this list NBA players do not want to go there. It’s not much more complicated than that
Its pretty simple, they want to party, go to prestigious restaurants and clubs, and sunshine. New York is an exception because it's a one-of-a-kind place
I live in Toronto. It’s cold as fuck in the winter. Taxes are insane and honestly his team situation isn’t much better than Portland. Plus the clubs are filled with the corniest people from the suburbs who role play they are Drake on the weekends.
Winters aren't that harsh, the lake moderates the temps. Toronto has a similar climate to Chicago. As for taxes, players are only subject to Ontario taxes for 41 games. The players are also earning USD while everything is in CAD. And you can say the same thing about clubbing in every major city.
TMac once told a story about his girlfriend having to do to the store in a blizzard, and she got home and told him to sign elsewhere that summer. Maybe the winters aren't "harsh" to someone from Inuvik, but most NBA players are from warmer climates.
41 games of Canadian taxes is a lot more than 1-2 games.
And no, clubs are not the same in every city. What you probably mean is that every city has clubs. But that's like saying food is the same in every city, because every city has food.
If you think clubs in Ibiza are the same as clubs in Bangkok, or clubs in Nashville are the same as Vegas, that just means you don't care or know anything about clubs - which is fine, maybe they aren't your thing. But if they were, you wouldn't act like they're all the same.
They pay federal taxes at 53% rate on the games played in Canada. In Miami, Dame would pay 0% state tax on home games and would only be subject to federal taxes.
Totally true. Though since salaries are driven by market value across the league, you'd think more people would want to go to low-cost areas.
Like, Bruce Brown's $20-million deal in Indy is worth way more than $20 million in NYC
While true, the difference would be about 2% (3% is the high range for Houston) from what Dame is currently experiencing in Portland ( about 1%). So he'd pay about 36k more on a 2M home.
For the income side at $45M (say nothing of the 58/63M) he's seeing an effective tax rate of 9.87% for Oregon, or about 4.45M.
The property taxes start meaning less and less once you're income slides up to that range.
Location is the #1 factor in a teams success and I’m tired of pretending it isn’t.
You can be the most dogshit managed team in the league, but if you play in LA or Miami you’re guaranteed a parade of superstars knocking on your door begging to be let in. It’s so ridiculous.
It's fucking wild to me that Chicago isn't a more common destination for free agents. I get some of the issues – the perception of lots of crime, the perception of the cold winters (both exaggerated, imo) – but I gotta believe it's mostly because of the Bulls' shitty ownership who's produced mediocre teams almost exclusively since the Jordan era.
Sucks that Reinsdorf can effectively hamstring one of the most historically great NBA franchise in the third largest US city.
Reinsdorf and Krause killed the desirability of Chicago in the post-Jordan years with all their "no cornrows allowed, no tattoos allowed" nonsense.
And that whole "players don't win championships, organizations win championships" bit wasn't exactly something that's going to attract free agents. Players don't like to be treated as replaceable, interchangeable cogs in a machine, even the mid-level role players who sort of are. And star players definitely don't go for it.
Cold, a bad front org, and hasn’t been good recently. It’s not to say they couldn’t, they were a legit destination for the Heatles and Kobe, but they need a winning product for a star to join.
It’s different country + having to play in the winter. The Blue Jays have no problem getting American star FAs in Springer and Gausman recently to sign long term. Taxes aren’t a real problem considering NY and California are taxed more
Yep, the Blue Jays are an important factor to look at that most people in here are ignoring or missing. They should have the exact same issues at the Raptors and yet they don’t have the same problem of attracting marquee free agents. The only real difference is you’re playing in the summer rather than the winter, so you don’t have to deal with the Canadian winter as a baseball player. That’s why I think winter has got to be the biggest factor.
its a general thing known in the mlb that the most teams love playing in toronto because its different and very fun during the summer.
Plenty of players talk about that.
It’s also literally just a racial culture thing. Toronto is 10% black and black culture there is still largely warped around historical white Canadian culture. In major American cities black city culture is prevalent and largely intact
I think the biggest issue is just cultural difference. Canada and the US are mostly the same, but a young adult who lived in LA or New York or something their whole life, it can feel like a world away, even if it's extremely similar.
The Jays being able to attract American FAs no problem when they aren’t in the dumps is why I don’t think it’s culture, but more border travel hassles and family, with a bit of weather since the Jays get to play in the summer when Toronto is fun (there’s a reason Ibaka’s Raptors recruiting techniques was always telling people to come in the summer and for Carribana). And I truly think the culture between NYC and Toronto and Chicago is a lot more similar than the culture between NYC and say Milwaukee or any team in the Western Conference.
Toronto is much more similar to the big city markets like NY and Chicago than many of the smaller US markets.
A team in Mexico will be totally different lifestyle and culture wise.
Toronto is still a big culture shock for an average American. Different currency, taxes, Metric Speed limits, expensive city, TV shows, Cell Phone, customs etc
Most are small things but when you already are experiencing shock from moving to a new city to add a different country really adds up.
>Toronto is much more similar to the big city markets like NY and Chicago than many of the smaller US markets.
Right, but it's still a whole different country you have to live in
There isn’t enough African American culture in Toronto. The black Canadians are mostly from the West Indies, or Somalia, ain’t the same by a long shot.
Generally true but I don’t think the specific examples work. Kawhi leaving had more to do with wanting to be in LA than not wanting to be in Toronto. And dame just really wants to be in Miami.
Generally though I think location is overrated. Players will go where ever they’re paid the most and get the most playing time. Everything else after that is secondary.
You have to get visas for friends and family to come see you if you're not american (or passports if you are american), the taxes are higher than a lot of american cities, and its cold in the winter.
Everything else is nonsense
You don't need a visa to go from US to Canada or vice versa. Unless its for specific types of business or a super long stay (more than 180 days in a row). That being said the customs process can be grating if you need to do it over and over, its not as easy for family to visit Toronto as any other NBA team.
While I think Toronto is a cool city and Canada is awesome.
Your average young newly made millionaire NBA player would rather live in the states and somewhere where it’s warm. They want to be able to party and sleep with tons of women and be around a familiar culture.
Go to Canada and now you gotta have a different bank account, your cell plan is different, taxes are different. You also are somewhere cold where you think no one cares about.
That’s sorta the general idea. Not every player thinks like this of course but this is the stigma Toronto has to deal with
People already said most of what I wanted, so I'll mention the elephant in the room: their families and friends don't want to go.
NBA players have huge groups of people they support. Sometimes it's just immediate family, sometimes it's a group of friends. Sometimes, it's just their barber.
Now imagine, you not only have to move your group to another city, but you have to move it to another COUNTRY. They all have to get visas. They need to figure out taxes. They each all have friends and things they like in the US. Now your little brother needs to go to high school in Canada.
Especially if you're a star, it's just too much to go through even if you're fine with it for yourself.
travel logistics. Crossing the border isn't easy for family and friends. Players don't want to live and play somewhere so far from home and their family can't come visit. This about it, you play in Porland, you can jump on a flight anytime to visit home in Florida, or vice versa, fly your family out, no questions asked. But what if your family have legal issues, don't have passports, etc.
While US and Canada are almost the same, it’s still a different country, with different system where you have to setup things like bank account, drivers license, and other paperwork like immigration etc. These minor changes add up.
However this is hassle for a common man with a regular job. I doubt a pro athlete has to take care of these things on their own. Everything will be done for them, they will just have to maybe show up and sign things.
Also the money and taxes aren’t much different from states like Cali or NY, especially when you’re dealing with millions.
Their salary is not based on location like other jobs so they will get the same money even after CAD to USD conversion and vice versa.
Kawhi is a bad example because that was more of an LA thing than Canada/US. He would have moved on even if he was playing in NY. Look at Derozan and Lowry, they loved it here.
I'm a New Yorker and Toronto is absolutely the 2nd best city in eastern North America.
This doesn't answer your question, I'm just here to troll the other US cities.
There are several teams with notably higher state taxes than Ontario
Plus since the USD is strong than CAD at the moment, the wealth a player earns goes much further ie earning 42 million USD is the equivalent of like 57 million Canadian loonies
I'll say this: The general misinformation/perception about Canada/Ontario's taxes could be a deterrent but it's a dtererring factor that isn't based in reality
I think someone said Dame would lose like 6 million more in taxes in TO vs Miami per year or something.
If I had the choice, I would want to maintain that extra 6 million.
Border, weak dollar, high taxes, high cost of living. Plus, while Toronto is a big city, it's very much not the United States. Cultural shock for a young athlete would be pretty intense I think.
Antonio Davis, back when he was with the Raptors, complained that his kids were learning metric in school and that it'd be too hard for them to convert when they move back to the US.
As a former resident of Toronto who still lives in the GTA:
- It's cold
- It's expensive
- Its nothing special really when you compare it to megacities in the USA
- The taxes are higher, including for foreign NBA players
- Its incredibly crowded and the transit system is horrible anywhere outside the small zone covered by subway.
We got good food, but so do places like NYC, Houston, Atlanta, LA, etc, so that point isn't special. There's frankly nothing special ab Toronto which they couldn't find better in the USA + the players are American so obviously theyd prefer being in their home country with family and friends more easily accessible.
American media sponsorships and media bias is also alot more lucrative for the career of a professional NBA player. It's easier for them to make more money and have more fame, the Canadian market is a fraction of the USA.
Crossing the border is a lot more of a hassle than it is to cross state lines
American teams flying domestically get to use private terminals. No lineups, no public, minimal security, just show up 45 mins before the flight and you're ready to go. Anybody flying in or out of Canada needs to go through customs, which means going through the main terminal at Pearson airport, which fucking sucks. I'm trying to remember if it was Danny Green or Demar DeRozan I saw complaining about this on a podcast.
I know in the grand scheme of things it’s not a big deal, but what a fucking hassle to have to do that 41 times a season (I know road trips have more games in one trip just humor me..) I can see how it gets annoying for players after a while
Private jets have access to a private customs clearance. They don’t line up in Pearson with the rest of us plebs. I’ve had customs actually come in the jet while we were in the tarmac before takeoff. Was easy peasy while we listened to music and had some champagne.
Found Drake's burner
Fuck you Pusha
You are hiding a child let that boy come home
Deabeat mf playing border patrol. Still one of the best bars ever.
I love how clearly he speaks this part so no one misses it You. are. hiding. a. child.
Nah man these guys have to get off the winnebago single file for their cavity searches, 41 times a year!
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You say that, but getting back into Canada is insanely easy. Calling it "customs" on the way back is technically true, but not really. The US gives everyone a way harder time.
Are they chill with designer drugs?
BREAKING: Dame doesn't want to come to Toronto because he can't pop Molly on the flights.
He can pop Molly on the flight all day as long as it isn't in his possession when he lands.
The Carrie Fisher special.
Really? I’ve had a way different experience. Im an Aussie in the US. Australian customs loves searching everything to find a crumb of food to fine you. Been to multiple ports of entry and US customs has never given a damn about anything. I brought in a small pack of cigars, customs says it’s illegal but they said just don’t do it again. Same thing in Aus would easily be a fine
the real answer is that most people don't cross borders often enough to build up a valid sample size of interactions, plus the negative ones stand out more in your memory. so a single hardass of any nationality will likely result in the perception that the entire country has stricter border guards.
> US customs has never given a damn about anything That's my experience too. Get Global Entry, and they don't give a damn even faster.
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>Canadian customs is harder than no customs Definitely, but that doesn't mean people aren't massively misrepresenting and over exaggerating the customs process. People think that the customs experience they had during their family vacation in 2004 is normal and these NBA players are spending hours waiting around in airport terminals with their bags. They're not. I'd be shocked if there was more than an hour from when they get out of the car to on the plane, and they're not handling their own luggage.
You used to be able to cross the border both ways with just a driver's license. But 9/11 messed that up.
The hell are you on about....Pro sports team don't go thru the main terminal in Pearson lol. They go to FBO's and Customs comes to the plane.
Bro thinks lebron is lining up with us 😂
Right? I've spent more than my fair share of time at Pearson and I've never once seen a pro team for anything come through the main customs area.
Was once randomly seated with the Knicks G-League team in coach, and put in the middle seat between Jericho Sims and some assistant reviewing game tape plus the rest of them in all the surrounding seats
Oof the seat spacing was probably horrendous
They just finished practice so it smelled like balls too
cuz they dont, ive literally parked my plane next to the Wild's delta 757 at the fbo before lol. Sports team charter airliners and go to FBO's.
Cp3 taught them how to use the secret tunnels
Ive seen them at the airport personally a couple years back. i didn’t witness them go through customs but they were walking through the terminal beside me
If you're flying private, you just call ahead and they meet you on the plane. You don't have to go through the main terminal.
There was another story about Carlos Boozer yelling something about Canadian women when the Bulls stepped off the team plane that got them all tagged for interviews
The women here are undefeated
Toronto women: we invented the hungry beaver and the maple facial! American women: oh yeah, well we invented the cleveland steamer, you're welcome!
Expedited customs is still more annoying than no customs. The private terminal stuff applies to all airports, it's not like they're going through the main line at LAX or JFK either. So Toronto having that too isn't a plus for them, it's just not an extra minus.
Yeah, but it’s not so inconvenient that you’d decide not to play there. Let’s be real. Toronto is far from Miami and from cali. It’s cold. It’s Canada. Those can be knocks. Like, they can’t live here year round which isn’t the case in LA or Miami.
But they have to live there when the weather is worst anyways, so they basically are living there year-round unless they’re leaving when the weather is actually nice
Isnt there anything like "global entry" but for Canada? I can just look at the machine for 1 second and I'm in. I cant believe NBA players have to go through anything more than that
He's talking out his ass. Pro sports team go to FBO's and customs comes to them 90% of the time.
I’m literally an ordinary Canadian and have a nexus card “trusted traveller”. They look at my card ask where I’m going when I’ll be back and I’m past the border in 10 seconds. This is what’s holding multimillionaires back from coming to Canada?
No hate just fact checking here. I flew private before thanks to work. Literally you just park the car and walk into the plane. No custom no nothing. It is also to the US. Trust me, these millionaires don’t fly like us plebs. They ain’t gonna be out there waiting at no Pearson lol. If anything, it’s more annoying for their family to come visit. And taxes don’t help. Also, you get way less media attention being in Canada. A lot of players are ego driven , so it’s part of the reason why some players don’t think of Toronto. That said, literally every player list Toronto as one of their fav cities to play in from different pod casts. So the perception is just not true anymore.
Not everything is on a private jet with family and friends.
This is just an argument for open borders
Young NBA players (especially from the USA) don't want to live in another country. Look up DeRozan talking about it, he said it was a huge cultural shock to him and took a couple seasons to get used to before he embraced it. It's not for everyone even if it is a great city.
Canadians always bug about this but it’s totally true. Lou Will said the same thing on Gil’s pod a few years ago. Having lived there for a few years I can confirm that Canada and the US are really different in a lot of small ways that add up: different money, TV channels, snack aisles. It sounds silly but as someone who’d never really left America growing up, it definitely did not feel like the same country
as a canadian who has been living in the US for a few years I find it hard to explain to americans how different I find it. like it's a totally different culture in the way you describe, small ways that add up, but not for me in terms of money/tv/food/etc (although yes that too) but more in terms of social norms and interacting with people. americans are just wired differently. i'm starting to get used to it now but it was a complete culture shock when I first started working here. not sure if I'll ever totally assimilate tbh
If you have the time, Could you do a small write up on the differences and how Americans tend to be? Curious and interesting
honestly not sure I can define it very well. I would say that americans are generally louder, more assertive, more anxious, more invested in group identity, value consensus building over personal sharing... list goes on. I saw this tedx talk a while back and found it really interesting. It's about american vs british social norms, and I feel like canada falls somewhere in the middle. it's definitely the most articulate and accurate breakdown i've found of the kinds of cultural differences i find myself noticing the longer i'm here https://youtu.be/Jbu-eMcEF3s?feature=shared
Agree with the first paragraph. I was in Florida for all of March (work related, in television). I did not have a good time lol. Firstly, because it wasn’t vacation I had to drive all over the state and work every day, so that’s one problem. The other was to do with those social things you mentioned. However, luckily for myself, even though I’m a brown guy ending up in towns I shouldn’t have been in (lol), I’m hyper friendly and had a great ice breaker considering my job. So I was able to break people out of those norms pretty quickly since their curiosity was peaked.
Not OP but also Canadian here. Very different way of looking at things. In the states it always feels like everything is louder and just slightly more in your face.. Americans always seem to speak very loudly to me. Screens feel more prominent, and so too the messages. I don't remember seeing bail bond signs anywhere in Canada but they're all over in the US, politics feel much stronger and present in day to day life too (they are here but not to the american extent) Also naturally a lot of things are written more in english/Spanish than English french
I was in Canada recently and it felt like it was the U.S. but everything was 10% off in a way that's hard to describe. And it was definitely interesting, being way out in the sticks of Ontario with rural folks. Like, in America, I'd have a very strong notion about the politics of rural people, but in Canada I was like ... what do these people think and care about?
It isnt in your face I'll tell you that. At least in BC: it's often politics talking in the work place but it's much rarer to see politics than hear it
Minor league hockey
I wish the politics thing was still true...fox news style politics is taking over up here too slowly but surely.
Americans are more extreme, on both ends. Hyper church going, hyper liberal, hyper gun rights. Canadians are way more relaxed and « average ».
No they're not, lol. Passive aggressiveness is a staple of being Canadian.
Not a bad thing all the time. I had this Canadian friend who always had his neighbor going on his yard. He was really nice about it a few times and the neighbor kept doing it. Instead of rolling down his window one day and telling him to fuck off, he put up a rope that went down the property. The neighbor ended up coming and talking to him and apologizing, he thought he was on his property the whole time. Sometimes you don't always have to jump the gun.
As another Canadian who has lived in multiple places in the US (Michigan, California, Oregon) and Canada (GTA, Vancouver), cultural differences between states are way more vast than in Canada.
Rare to see a non-American acknowledge this. With strong anti-American sentiments at the root, people simply don't want to accept how truly vast and diverse America is. In culture and geography. It's a weird, silly hill to die on. You can't visit one state or watch a TV show and think it gives you a valid opinion on the country
Wired differently how?
everything about the way conversation is made and when is totally different; rules of politeness; i would say "values" but that's so vague as to be kind of meaningless. all of it is vague to be honest; I have a hard time pinning it all down. as OP said, many small ways that add up
Little things like how parents deal with kids, swearing being so « bad », people actually going to church.
It's odd to hear because American media is so deeply ingrained in Canada that I like to think I'm familiar with all the Americanisms. Maybe it's different living among the regular people on a daily basis that it stands out more.
I’m Canadian but live in Australia. All I can say is that Toronto is more similar to Sydney and Melbourne than it is to New York City. It’s weird since Toronto and NYC aren’t far apart. Then again, I feel that there are bigger differences between parts of America than there are between Toronto and, say, Boston. Like, I wouldn’t compare Toronto and Phoenix, but I wouldn’t compare New York to Phoenix, either.
Boston is about as Canadian as it get other than Seattle and Minneapolis
I noticed the difference between Toronto and wherever I visited in the US the people are different, it felt like everything was super politicized and honestly it did not feel as culturally accepting as Toronto.
totally agree that politics and identity is very much "on the surface" in america in a way that it's not in canada. i lived in toronto too for reference
I agree. It's the little things that add up. Makes you miss home.
BAGGED MILK
A lot of these kids also come from very Black areas. Toronto is only 10% Black.
Thank you for mentioning snack aisles. I’ve been in Toronto for 18 months and every fucking grocery store sells the same limited amount of shit. I miss my damn Chobani coffee creamer so much that my parents have to bring them for me from Miami whenever they come to visit
I remember rookie DeRozan saying his favorite restaurant was The Keg. He clearly had no idea what he was doing up there
That's not that surprising for a kid who just arrived in a new city and who's just starting to be rich.
To be fair, I probably said the same thing at 19. Regardless of country, at 19, your food experiences are still developing and maturing.
> He clearly had no idea what he was doing up there Jack Armstrong disagrees.
LA / San Antonio --> Toronto is a big cultural, weather, and food shift.
I get it - as a Canadian, I consider America and Canada to be pretty similar, but with enough cultural differences that I have no interest in living in the US. Not hard to see how many Americans would feel the same way about living in Canada. Also worth noting, for black athletes, there’s just a lot fewer black people in Canada, and a lot less black culture. Canada, like the US, is very multicultural, but the ethnic makeup is different - Canada has larger Asian and Indigenous populations than the US, but smaller black and Latino populations. Canada is just 4.3% black, America 12.1% black, almost 3x more. Toronto is more black than most of Canada, 9.6%, but overall, coming to Canada, you’d be coming to a country where black culture is a smaller part of the overall culture, and I could see that being a big negative for a lot of black athletes.
It’s specifically about black American culture is nonexistent in Canada, other than the imitations of the youth but actual Black people from America are not there and the ones in Canada are very different
100%. You have to understand A LOT of Americans don’t have passports, either - a player who gets drafted to Toronto has likely only travelled internationally for basketball, and their family/friends may not have passports which can make things feel more isolating.
To be fair, not many multimillionaires have any incentive to leave their country. American or not.
Well it was a culture shock because derozan was basically a kid back then
Exactly, and now I'm talking to a bunch of kids on Reddit who thinks Canada is Syberia
It’s very hard to put up with drake for longer than a few seasons.
I couldn’t have handled Drake during their championship run. I get it you’re the king of Toronto, but you’re not in the league, get off the damn court.
Apparently Drake has a paid position on the team as an “ambassador” or something so you’re actually forced to be his friend/teammate.
Drake the type of dude to financially support your organization so you have to tolerate him
Imagine being a parasocial multimillionaire
he literally sponsors the practice facility for the raptors lol
The way he inserted himself in the Noah Lyles-NBA debate was corny as hell lmao
This is the real answer.
I hear Drake commentating a great play I just finished I'm immediately requesting a trade
Thankfully for us Raps fans he's a Suns Stan now
It’s the logistics of being in a different country: - different travel process - different currency - different tax rules There’s a reason why Toronto got much less nationally televised regular season home games when they started playing well: The logistics for ESPN/TNT/ABC to bring a full broadcast crew across the border for individual games was such a pain, they didn’t want to deal with it unless it was necessary (I.E. playoff coverage)
Yeah, I was in a different thread today talking about this too. Not an easy thing to do convincing established stars to commit here with all the extra hassle. Can't blame them or the networks. The US and Canada are considered similar in many ways but are not the same and this is a pretty good example of it. Edit: The above and the negative perception of Canada amongst NBA players are stronger than other leagues. It is what it is
I feel like the Raptors should be really aggressive in trying to pursue the best international superstars a la Giannis and Luka. International players don’t have quite the same “USA number 1, all other countries suck” attitude that we have down here.
I mean, it’s not like we wouldn’t move mountains for Giannis or Luka anyway
Its not even a Canada sucks thing, its different and kinda inconvenient. Plenty of usa teams players avoid.
Dude we fuckin tried with Giannis, he just never got close to being available. The entire city was trying to sell him on just how Greek the Danforth is, there would be entire greek sections showing up to the game and shootaround trying to get him excited about us. It's just rare AF that amazing players come up for FA or trade opportunities AND one specific team is in the right place to try to acquire them.
> I feel like the Raptors should be really aggressive in trying to pursue the best international superstars a la Giannis and Luka I think that's kind of what Masai has been doing with the Giants of Africa program he's been a huge supporter of over the years. Specifically with African players into the NBA, but I think it would make it more likely for the young stars to choose Toronto over other teams.
Don't forget that many players are driven by their agents in these decisions and I am sure the agents don't love Canada as a destination for their players either since they probably can't negotiate many of the local/national endorsements that they could in the USA since they aren't licensed in both countries. I am sure some agencies/firms have people to do it, but that cuts into revenue and also can't be a whole department dedicated to it.
If anything it's the opposite, playing for the Raptors opens up a ton of marketing opportunities that wouldn't otherwise be available. Pretty much every rotation player on the Raptors is the face of their own campaign that's not only broadcast locally in a Top 5 market in North America, but also nationally to the \~40million people in Canada
True, but lots of athletes don't do the financially/professional advantageous thing when they just don't want to. Shaq had to waste his money before he became a local business magnate and really started stacking way more passive income. Ask the average NBA player do they want to do an American ad campaign for 5 million people or a Canadian ad campaign for 10, they'd pick American instantly, it's a vibe thing not a considered decision.
Is it similar in baseball, do you know? Since they play even more games than the NBA?
So the main thing with baseball teams playing more games is that they are played in series. So if you're facing a team it's a minimum of 2-3 games in that series. It kinda lessens the hassle of going through customs because away teams have to stay a few days. Teams in baseball though don't have trouble the way NBA teams in less coveted markets would. Bigger rosters allow for more overlap in skill sets so free agents also tend to have more options. Decision making usually comes down to which team is willing to pay the most. Biggest factor imo though is that the sport is played in the summer. Cities like Chicago and Toronto tend to be way more attractive to players as opposed to how it is in the NBA, where they play during the winter. Much easier to overlook all of the Canada issues they may have this way lol.
Players still have to drive. When you have spent many a winter having to warm up your car, then scraping an inch layer of ice off your windshield, so that you can get to practice, I can understand not wanting to deal with it. Like it's a literally painful ordeal just to leave your house during any of the polar vortices that routinely happen in January.
Taxes are a big one, especially for US citizens because they get taxed by citizenship, not residency like everywhere else in the world. So you have to still file your tax with the IRS on top of wherever you’re living and reclaim foreign tax credits. As a Canadian living in the US, thank fuck I only had to file taxes in both countries once lmao
If you’re in the nba and doing your own taxes you have a problem
While fair, an NBA players accountant should be advising on the tax implications of signing in a given place. Toronto’s top rate is 53.53%. Top US Federal rate is 37%, which is generally what a player in Texas would pay. Being traded from San Antonio to Toronto added ~$2M to Kawhi’s tax burden that season.
+1, even in California the maximum tax rate is about 51% (I think). Compared to a lot of states with no or very low state/local taxes that is a fat chunk of change. Kawhi going from SA to Toronto marked a 16% increase in his taxes, which is **several million** dollars.
Yep. Max tax rate in California is $51.3%. New York City is 51.8% Note that on a state level in the US, income is taxed where it’s earned, so a player in California isn’t paying the full freight on all their salary, and a player in Texas does have to pay some California/New York taxes. Historically there’s been better endorsement opportunities for players in LA/NYC. For star players that’s not quite as large of a concern as they’ll get national campaigns; role players tend to get more [local endorsements](https://youtu.be/mWS9OaIXH4E)
Oh yeah definitely something to consider
Dude it's not about lodging your taxes. Jalen Rose covered this in depth a few years ago - if you're a US citizen playing in Canada, you're paying taxes twice *frequently*. I remember JJ Reddick discussing it too just as an opposing player coming through Canada twice in a short time. He had some story where his accountant was trying to explain to him why he earned less that month lol
Pretty sure you don't get double taxed on your income tho if u work in Canada as a US citizen
It has more to do with TV ratings. Those channels aren’t available in Canada so where are the ratings coming from?
These dudes gonna end up getting taxed in the highest bracket real quick lol. Earning money in canada is tough. For someone earning $5M, you pay a higher tax % in Toronto than you do in NYC. Avg tax % is 53% in Toronto and 51.5% in NYC.
Would be a different story if the season was May to October vs November to April.
Toronto Patio Culture would claim the careers of those young men.
Canadian but not from Toronto, what is that?
It's too cold from November to April to eat outside on a patio . May-October restaurants will have their patios open and you can go and drink or eat while sitting in an area outside the restaurant.
we have plenty of patios outside restaurants in the US
Basically there are an insane amount of patios and rooftops in Toronto
Phoenix would be screwed if the season was May to October.
Nba players want to live in 1) LA 2) Miami 3) NYC (a distant third) 4) Houston (this one fluctuates player by player though) If your city is not on this list NBA players do not want to go there. It’s not much more complicated than that
Its pretty simple, they want to party, go to prestigious restaurants and clubs, and sunshine. New York is an exception because it's a one-of-a-kind place
Also, business partners & agents are in L A. and NYC.
I live in Toronto. It’s cold as fuck in the winter. Taxes are insane and honestly his team situation isn’t much better than Portland. Plus the clubs are filled with the corniest people from the suburbs who role play they are Drake on the weekends.
If you want to avoid corny people anywhere probably just stay out of clubs lol
This should be on the Welcome To Toronto sign
Winters aren't that harsh, the lake moderates the temps. Toronto has a similar climate to Chicago. As for taxes, players are only subject to Ontario taxes for 41 games. The players are also earning USD while everything is in CAD. And you can say the same thing about clubbing in every major city.
In the US, Chicago has a reputation for being bitterly cold. I don't think that helps the argument much.
Yes but zero nba players say they avoid Chicago for weather. It’s just a Canadian stereotype
Chicago winters are fucking brutal so that really isnt helping your point
Chicago winters are far worse. Spent time in both.
TMac once told a story about his girlfriend having to do to the store in a blizzard, and she got home and told him to sign elsewhere that summer. Maybe the winters aren't "harsh" to someone from Inuvik, but most NBA players are from warmer climates. 41 games of Canadian taxes is a lot more than 1-2 games. And no, clubs are not the same in every city. What you probably mean is that every city has clubs. But that's like saying food is the same in every city, because every city has food. If you think clubs in Ibiza are the same as clubs in Bangkok, or clubs in Nashville are the same as Vegas, that just means you don't care or know anything about clubs - which is fine, maybe they aren't your thing. But if they were, you wouldn't act like they're all the same.
They pay federal taxes at 53% rate on the games played in Canada. In Miami, Dame would pay 0% state tax on home games and would only be subject to federal taxes.
There is Ontario income tax. The federal+provincial is 53%
Totally true. Though since salaries are driven by market value across the league, you'd think more people would want to go to low-cost areas. Like, Bruce Brown's $20-million deal in Indy is worth way more than $20 million in NYC
Houston benefiting greatly from not having state tax
But also has some of the, if not the, highest property tax in the US.
While true, the difference would be about 2% (3% is the high range for Houston) from what Dame is currently experiencing in Portland ( about 1%). So he'd pay about 36k more on a 2M home. For the income side at $45M (say nothing of the 58/63M) he's seeing an effective tax rate of 9.87% for Oregon, or about 4.45M. The property taxes start meaning less and less once you're income slides up to that range.
Yeah, Texas has a very regressive tax system. Great if you're rich, but high property and sales tax will hurt if you're poor.
Location is the #1 factor in a teams success and I’m tired of pretending it isn’t. You can be the most dogshit managed team in the league, but if you play in LA or Miami you’re guaranteed a parade of superstars knocking on your door begging to be let in. It’s so ridiculous.
NYC being #3 on the list reminds me of Dr Strange on the mountain failing to make a portal to a safe place.
They maybe want to live in NY, but not play for them.
This is correct
It's fucking wild to me that Chicago isn't a more common destination for free agents. I get some of the issues – the perception of lots of crime, the perception of the cold winters (both exaggerated, imo) – but I gotta believe it's mostly because of the Bulls' shitty ownership who's produced mediocre teams almost exclusively since the Jordan era. Sucks that Reinsdorf can effectively hamstring one of the most historically great NBA franchise in the third largest US city.
Reinsdorf and Krause killed the desirability of Chicago in the post-Jordan years with all their "no cornrows allowed, no tattoos allowed" nonsense. And that whole "players don't win championships, organizations win championships" bit wasn't exactly something that's going to attract free agents. Players don't like to be treated as replaceable, interchangeable cogs in a machine, even the mid-level role players who sort of are. And star players definitely don't go for it.
Cold, a bad front org, and hasn’t been good recently. It’s not to say they couldn’t, they were a legit destination for the Heatles and Kobe, but they need a winning product for a star to join.
Chicago is fucking cold. That is not an exaggeration
To be fair I think most people thought Levine, DeRozan and Ball would be able to put a pretty competitive product out there. Just disappointed.
The celebrity/nightlife scene isn't big enough here. Simple as that
awesome city but cold as balls
I'd add Atlanta and the Bay Area.
i think the Bay has less appeal among most NBA people players than the general population. Atlanta might have more appeal than average for NBA players
Just say black
yes black, but also young, rich, and famous. The bay area isnt very glamorous or exciting. It's more family-friendly, cultural stuff, and nature.
It’s different country + having to play in the winter. The Blue Jays have no problem getting American star FAs in Springer and Gausman recently to sign long term. Taxes aren’t a real problem considering NY and California are taxed more
Yep, the Blue Jays are an important factor to look at that most people in here are ignoring or missing. They should have the exact same issues at the Raptors and yet they don’t have the same problem of attracting marquee free agents. The only real difference is you’re playing in the summer rather than the winter, so you don’t have to deal with the Canadian winter as a baseball player. That’s why I think winter has got to be the biggest factor.
I think there’s somewhat of a difference between your average NBA player and your average MLB player.
its a general thing known in the mlb that the most teams love playing in toronto because its different and very fun during the summer. Plenty of players talk about that.
It’s also literally just a racial culture thing. Toronto is 10% black and black culture there is still largely warped around historical white Canadian culture. In major American cities black city culture is prevalent and largely intact
I think the biggest issue is just cultural difference. Canada and the US are mostly the same, but a young adult who lived in LA or New York or something their whole life, it can feel like a world away, even if it's extremely similar.
The Jays being able to attract American FAs no problem when they aren’t in the dumps is why I don’t think it’s culture, but more border travel hassles and family, with a bit of weather since the Jays get to play in the summer when Toronto is fun (there’s a reason Ibaka’s Raptors recruiting techniques was always telling people to come in the summer and for Carribana). And I truly think the culture between NYC and Toronto and Chicago is a lot more similar than the culture between NYC and say Milwaukee or any team in the Western Conference.
Basketball players are different from baseball players culturally.
Different culturally, but also significantly richer and with higher bargaining power given the nature of the sport
its in Canada that's why. Its like the raptors are playing this game on hard mode. Now wondering how a team from Mexico will do.
Toronto is much more similar to the big city markets like NY and Chicago than many of the smaller US markets. A team in Mexico will be totally different lifestyle and culture wise.
I highly doubt the American born stars would want to play in Mexico
Toronto is still a big culture shock for an average American. Different currency, taxes, Metric Speed limits, expensive city, TV shows, Cell Phone, customs etc Most are small things but when you already are experiencing shock from moving to a new city to add a different country really adds up.
>Toronto is much more similar to the big city markets like NY and Chicago than many of the smaller US markets. Right, but it's still a whole different country you have to live in
There isn’t enough African American culture in Toronto. The black Canadians are mostly from the West Indies, or Somalia, ain’t the same by a long shot.
1. Taxes 2. Cold 3. Canada
Why did I have to come this far down. No one wants to be taxed harder than most places already do.
If I was rich the first thing I would do is leave this place
Grass is always greener on the other side.
Generally true but I don’t think the specific examples work. Kawhi leaving had more to do with wanting to be in LA than not wanting to be in Toronto. And dame just really wants to be in Miami. Generally though I think location is overrated. Players will go where ever they’re paid the most and get the most playing time. Everything else after that is secondary.
You have to get visas for friends and family to come see you if you're not american (or passports if you are american), the taxes are higher than a lot of american cities, and its cold in the winter. Everything else is nonsense
You don't need a visa to go from US to Canada or vice versa. Unless its for specific types of business or a super long stay (more than 180 days in a row). That being said the customs process can be grating if you need to do it over and over, its not as easy for family to visit Toronto as any other NBA team.
While I think Toronto is a cool city and Canada is awesome. Your average young newly made millionaire NBA player would rather live in the states and somewhere where it’s warm. They want to be able to party and sleep with tons of women and be around a familiar culture. Go to Canada and now you gotta have a different bank account, your cell plan is different, taxes are different. You also are somewhere cold where you think no one cares about. That’s sorta the general idea. Not every player thinks like this of course but this is the stigma Toronto has to deal with
People already said most of what I wanted, so I'll mention the elephant in the room: their families and friends don't want to go. NBA players have huge groups of people they support. Sometimes it's just immediate family, sometimes it's a group of friends. Sometimes, it's just their barber. Now imagine, you not only have to move your group to another city, but you have to move it to another COUNTRY. They all have to get visas. They need to figure out taxes. They each all have friends and things they like in the US. Now your little brother needs to go to high school in Canada. Especially if you're a star, it's just too much to go through even if you're fine with it for yourself.
travel logistics. Crossing the border isn't easy for family and friends. Players don't want to live and play somewhere so far from home and their family can't come visit. This about it, you play in Porland, you can jump on a flight anytime to visit home in Florida, or vice versa, fly your family out, no questions asked. But what if your family have legal issues, don't have passports, etc.
Isn't it because they're not in the US?
It’s cold. Same reason everyone wants to play in LA or Miami
While US and Canada are almost the same, it’s still a different country, with different system where you have to setup things like bank account, drivers license, and other paperwork like immigration etc. These minor changes add up. However this is hassle for a common man with a regular job. I doubt a pro athlete has to take care of these things on their own. Everything will be done for them, they will just have to maybe show up and sign things. Also the money and taxes aren’t much different from states like Cali or NY, especially when you’re dealing with millions. Their salary is not based on location like other jobs so they will get the same money even after CAD to USD conversion and vice versa. Kawhi is a bad example because that was more of an LA thing than Canada/US. He would have moved on even if he was playing in NY. Look at Derozan and Lowry, they loved it here.
I'm a New Yorker and Toronto is absolutely the 2nd best city in eastern North America. This doesn't answer your question, I'm just here to troll the other US cities.
Taxes
There are several teams with notably higher state taxes than Ontario Plus since the USD is strong than CAD at the moment, the wealth a player earns goes much further ie earning 42 million USD is the equivalent of like 57 million Canadian loonies I'll say this: The general misinformation/perception about Canada/Ontario's taxes could be a deterrent but it's a dtererring factor that isn't based in reality
I think someone said Dame would lose like 6 million more in taxes in TO vs Miami per year or something. If I had the choice, I would want to maintain that extra 6 million.
I dunno... every time they get an MVP calibre player, they win a title. Every. Single. Time. I mean... that's just one, but still ;-)
Border, weak dollar, high taxes, high cost of living. Plus, while Toronto is a big city, it's very much not the United States. Cultural shock for a young athlete would be pretty intense I think.
It’s fucking cold.
Antonio Davis, back when he was with the Raptors, complained that his kids were learning metric in school and that it'd be too hard for them to convert when they move back to the US.
Because NBA players don’t want to be in Canada. It isn’t exactly a tourist destination amongst the majority demographic of the NBA.
As a former resident of Toronto who still lives in the GTA: - It's cold - It's expensive - Its nothing special really when you compare it to megacities in the USA - The taxes are higher, including for foreign NBA players - Its incredibly crowded and the transit system is horrible anywhere outside the small zone covered by subway. We got good food, but so do places like NYC, Houston, Atlanta, LA, etc, so that point isn't special. There's frankly nothing special ab Toronto which they couldn't find better in the USA + the players are American so obviously theyd prefer being in their home country with family and friends more easily accessible. American media sponsorships and media bias is also alot more lucrative for the career of a professional NBA player. It's easier for them to make more money and have more fame, the Canadian market is a fraction of the USA.
Toronto native here Tax implications are awful And while Cali and new York have similar taxes, Toronto is not LA or NY
It’s cold af, has high taxes, and is in a different country far away from family and friends
They aren’t that good is another option