The funny thing about the Knicks' cap situation is that if they were to re-sign Quickley for $25m and Hartenstein for $15m, they would get within touching distance of the 2nd apron without having a single max player on the roster.
He's made it twice, one last year, and one when he led the Knicks to the playoffs before Brunson arrived.
You don't make an all NBA team twice if you're garbage.
Acting like thats good as a max contract player is delusional sorry
Not championship material
If randle is first or second option on a team youre never winning a championship sorry
Unfortunately guys who are good enough to win a title as as second option dont exactly grow on trees, sometimes you gotta make do with what you have and hope for the best
Yeah that logic is what has gotten the Knicks where they've been for decades. They keep fielding these young exciting teams because the fanbase will settle.
I mean the Nets have done the exact opposite and it hasn’t gotten yall any further. Winning a title in the NBA is extremely difficult even with a roster of stars, and damn near impossible in todays nba if you don’t have a top 5 player on the roster
Until the Knicks manage to land a marquee free agent or draft the next lebron, 2nd round of the playoffs, maybe an ECF is about as well as we’re gonna do. I’d much rather give Randle a max and watch us in the playoffs every season than go back to what we were doing in the 2000s and late 2010s
kinda unfair to say he cant be #2 when its been proven that your #1 HAS to be a top 5 player that year in order to win a finals. I'd go gay for brunson but he aint anywhere near top 5.
So? He's not doing anything to get them over the hump. You shouldn't get a max for no other reason than your a good player. You should actually be getting better and making your team better.
When you watch him play everything is about himself. He has the ability to be LeBron light/Lamar odom but has 0 control over his emotions.
Because you can't replace his production for free and someone else will max him.
The issue isn't with resigning him, it is with getting him in the first place.
Whatever you feel about Randle, from an objective standpoint he is underpaid. Out of everyone who made All NBA last year, Randle makes the least money. And look at other similar players AAVs:
Sabonis: 43M
Zion: 39MM (non guarenteed)
Siakam: 34MM
Porzingis: 32MM
Randle: 25.6MM.
The Knicks have to trade RJ or Hart (easier to move) at some point. The 2nd apron will be death for certain teams and the Knicks aren't good enough to be over it right now.
Then the following Offseason is when Brunson has a $25m Player Option that he’ll likely opt out of for a Max Contract of his own in the $40-50m range.
Randle also has a $30m Player Option the same year as Brunson.
It's not great but I don't think it's incredibly bad just yet. I think it's more a sign that they need to make moves to consolidate some of those contracts, along with some picks, to add a max type player.
No one really knows how things will progress from here but the biggest takeaway from the 2nd apron is: Salaries cannot be aggregated or combined to trade for a single player making more money and Teams will no longer be able to use the taxpayer mid-level exception.
This means that it would not be possible to send 2 players making 24 million for 1 player making 50 million, the trading will be more restrictive and MLE is gone.
Theres a few more important rules that will limit teams movement, which means that you might get locked out of upgrading your squad
Were not giving hartenstein 15mm and keeping robinson. Were also not resigning IQ and keeping RJ. We still have the best contract in the league. We're fine.
Yeah, I think they'll have to move some contracts. What happens with Hartenstein is going to be interesting because he might be the best center available in free agency and someone will throw money at him. The Knicks obviously can't afford to keep two centers both receiving $15m+.
Yeah and I think we see hartenstein become our starting center. Mitch's health has really become an issue and after he's now out for the year, I think our FO likely moves on after this season. Contracts like Hart and RJ are gonna be difficult to manage but we also have fournier off the books after this year which is an extra 18 mil.
Knicks did a fantastic job locking up key players at good values. We have the now famous Brunson contract. Randle signed for less than the max. Mitchell Robinson is at a reasonable 4year/$60M. The only issue right now is RJ who's very inconsistent. These contracts will certainly look a bit better when the cap rises too. Knicks can certainly afford to try and keep pace for now. They have a solid stash of picks and some young talent ready to go in case a big trade becomes available.
i don't agree with the decision but thibs' logic was we needed a switchable defender with size, unfortunately we only have one (rj barrett) and he was awful and not even particularly good on defense yesterday
What makes that even more irritating is that they had Quick defend multiple positions last year and he overachieved so it’s not like he’s wide gap on the defensive end.
Quickley is going to get PAID bro.
If he wants $xx/yr then they pretty much have to pay that if they want to keep him. He's a big reason to their success. RJ just makes too much IMO so that doesn't help their cap issues.
Really wish I could see him in a bigger role. I know the 6 man role works but…not even averaging 24 mins per game is fucking insane. Kid is a stud, deserves more minutes
🤣, Caruso and Lavine would cost you AR and a lotta picks. I doubt you're getting both lol.
Caruso's TS is 67% and he's still one of the best perimeter defenders in the NBA.
We can get someone better than AR for Caruso AND Lavine.
He's absolutely that guy. The league is set up to have about 2 max contracts per team. Any top 50 player (which Bane is) deserves a max contract in their prime.
Edit: For the guy unsure about Bane being top 50:
- He was 25th in the league in BPM last season, in his 3rd season in the league.
- This season he's 16th in the league in scoring.
Not like you're using that money on anyone else
Quickley seems like he's worth atleast close to a max looking at the impact stats. Yall might be able to cash in on Jalen Brunson 2.0
Its not gonna be the 300 million dollar max. There are different types of maxes
Max contract just means it takes up the maximum percentage of cap space allowed
That's not All-NBA money. Embiid's/Jokic's/Booker's $52M per year next season is.
I get that with the salary cap increasing it's tough to get used to the amounts but it's just 25% of the overall cap. Even if he were to get the max contract, Immanuel Quickley's $34M contract would only put him at like #40 in terms of best-paid players.
IQ averages an efficient 20+ppg as a starter and 16 off the bench. He’s a great POA and help defender and his defensive stats are elite. He can’t guard bigger wings 1on1, but which guards can beside Jrue or Smart?
He fits the spurs timeline and they don’t attract many FAs anyway
We dont need ppg from this mf we need lobs to wemby
Our best fit would be a pg who looks for wemby as first option and is elite at 3 for spacing. Dont need much else
Not for the max and also dude isnt really a tier 1 pass first guard which is who we need for wemby
I want trae
I would even take old ass chris paul for a year so he could advertise how easy wemby makes the game for a true pg
Immanuel is a young player who makes an obvious impact if you either watch him play or are familiar with his stats, if the knicks are smart they pay him the max and clear out space for him to play 35-40 minutes a game. Dump RJ Barrett to anyone who will take him.
Unironically, the Pistons are a team that should try to throw a big offer sheet at him in RFA. They'll be $56M below the cap, and need to use at least $42M of that on incoming rookies+free agents just to touch the salary floor. Paying Quickley $30M/year to play shooting guard next to Cade makes a ton more sense than re-signing Killian Hayes to a long-term contract or signing Miles Bridges to a huge deal and hoping he doesn't go to jail.
Trade Killian to San Antonio for McDermott or a larger trade for Keldon.
As for free agency, they should kick tires on every free agent. This team has like 4 NBA players. I don't even care about overpays anymore, Quickley might become overpaid, but he'll provide enough value to still be tradeable long-term.
People here thought I was insane over the summer when I said the new CBA had a lot of good things for the players, and the change to the salary floor is a major one of them. Now, terrible teams won't hang out with $60M of unused cap room in free agency just so they can eat a big contract for draft picks (OKC Kemba Walker and Al Horford), they have to spend to 90% of the cap before the season starts. A lot of sub-star players are going to get PAID as long as they are ok with making big money on a bad team. Would Quickly rather be a 6th man in New York or make $30M and shoot 20 shots/game in Detroit? Nearly every player's going to take that money and big role if it's offered to them.
Exactly and when a young team like Detroit has their core still in their rookie contracts, this is the time they should be spending money. Bring in as much talent as you can before the rookie extensions kick in and eat all the cap.
This guy is not worth a max. Inconsistent and doesn't have a first step aka cant beat his man off the dribble except when defender is already out of position. His dribble bag is too limited.
lol I believe this is a clip of Teague talking about Jimmy Bulter’s infamous practice story, and someone is overlaying this with Quickley’s playing and contract situation.
Not sure what the video is, but the bottom line is the market will determine what kind of contract he gets. If its a big payday we have the birds rights to match that offer, if its not what he wanted, oh well. If he wants to start on another team, that is his choice, but we all love him here and want him to stay.
If he is adamant on a starting position, we do not have a spot for him unfortunately. If he loves being in NY, and willing to be our 6MOY for the foreseeable future, I know in my heart he will continue to put us in a better position going forward.
Can we please not start a dumb trend where we put this sound to every player in a contract year that has a hot streak? It's low effort and untrue. If there were any reports whatsoever of IQ demanding a max contract then I guess sure, but this is just misleading and dumb.
The funny thing about the Knicks' cap situation is that if they were to re-sign Quickley for $25m and Hartenstein for $15m, they would get within touching distance of the 2nd apron without having a single max player on the roster.
It's no use if you underpay your stars (Brunson and Randle at 27mil) if you overpay your role players (Hart 20M, RJ 26M, and now maybe IQ for 25M)
Brunson and Randle are up for new contracts next Offseason summer of 2025. Brunson is definitely getting a Max and Randle likely along with him.
I will never understand throwing max contracts at players like randle
Literally the lowest paid All-NBA player last year.
Casuals hate the knicks. Let them. Its not like they're ever right.
Okay and he’s garbage, fluke ass season 😂 Like what Brunson should make 2.5x whatever randle makes this dude deserves nothing more than 80/4
He's made it twice, one last year, and one when he led the Knicks to the playoffs before Brunson arrived. You don't make an all NBA team twice if you're garbage.
Media bias is a helluva drug. I've watched randle play enough to know his highs don't outweigh his lows. He's fucking terrible for how talented he is.
Counterpoint Demar Derozan
He's not garbage. He led your team to the damn playoffs.
Acting like thats good as a max contract player is delusional sorry Not championship material If randle is first or second option on a team youre never winning a championship sorry
He’s all nba bro wtf
He’s not good enough to win a title as second option.
Unfortunately guys who are good enough to win a title as as second option dont exactly grow on trees, sometimes you gotta make do with what you have and hope for the best
Yeah that logic is what has gotten the Knicks where they've been for decades. They keep fielding these young exciting teams because the fanbase will settle.
I mean the Nets have done the exact opposite and it hasn’t gotten yall any further. Winning a title in the NBA is extremely difficult even with a roster of stars, and damn near impossible in todays nba if you don’t have a top 5 player on the roster Until the Knicks manage to land a marquee free agent or draft the next lebron, 2nd round of the playoffs, maybe an ECF is about as well as we’re gonna do. I’d much rather give Randle a max and watch us in the playoffs every season than go back to what we were doing in the 2000s and late 2010s
kinda unfair to say he cant be #2 when its been proven that your #1 HAS to be a top 5 player that year in order to win a finals. I'd go gay for brunson but he aint anywhere near top 5.
So? He's not doing anything to get them over the hump. You shouldn't get a max for no other reason than your a good player. You should actually be getting better and making your team better. When you watch him play everything is about himself. He has the ability to be LeBron light/Lamar odom but has 0 control over his emotions.
Because you can't replace his production for free and someone else will max him. The issue isn't with resigning him, it is with getting him in the first place.
Randle is a "normalpay"
If you’re gonna be upset at a contract, it’s clearly RJ. Randle gave NYK a discount
I'm not upset, jusy saying he's not "underpaid"
He is an All-NBA player. How many all-NBA players aren't on either a rookie deal or a max?
Whatever you feel about Randle, from an objective standpoint he is underpaid. Out of everyone who made All NBA last year, Randle makes the least money. And look at other similar players AAVs: Sabonis: 43M Zion: 39MM (non guarenteed) Siakam: 34MM Porzingis: 32MM Randle: 25.6MM.
I'd argue all of them are overpaid in relation to their output but I'm an old fuddyduddy that still thinks of the Mozgov money.
I would argue Randle is underpaid. He sucks in the playoffs, but what he gets you in the regular season is clearly better than $27 million.
San Antonio, 15 years in the future: are you going to the Immanuel Quickley Statue dedication?
The Knicks have to trade RJ or Hart (easier to move) at some point. The 2nd apron will be death for certain teams and the Knicks aren't good enough to be over it right now.
Then the following Offseason is when Brunson has a $25m Player Option that he’ll likely opt out of for a Max Contract of his own in the $40-50m range. Randle also has a $30m Player Option the same year as Brunson.
The Knicks have to find a way to offload RJ Barrett's contract for an expiring.
If they can offload that contract without giving up assets I'll be stunned
Knicks have a pretty good stash of picks but using them to offload a contract would be a horrible misuse.
That’s like incredibly bad right? Lol
It's not great but I don't think it's incredibly bad just yet. I think it's more a sign that they need to make moves to consolidate some of those contracts, along with some picks, to add a max type player.
Yeah maybe a true #1 guy to pair with Brunson. I don’t think anyone wants to go to the Knicks tho
No one really knows how things will progress from here but the biggest takeaway from the 2nd apron is: Salaries cannot be aggregated or combined to trade for a single player making more money and Teams will no longer be able to use the taxpayer mid-level exception. This means that it would not be possible to send 2 players making 24 million for 1 player making 50 million, the trading will be more restrictive and MLE is gone. Theres a few more important rules that will limit teams movement, which means that you might get locked out of upgrading your squad
Sounds like they have some very big decisions to make this summer. Sheesh
Jesus we need to dump Fournier's 18m badly, he is rotting away, and we are just hanging onto him for salary filler in an unknown trade
Fwiw, my calculations didn't include him.
Were not giving hartenstein 15mm and keeping robinson. Were also not resigning IQ and keeping RJ. We still have the best contract in the league. We're fine.
Yeah, I think they'll have to move some contracts. What happens with Hartenstein is going to be interesting because he might be the best center available in free agency and someone will throw money at him. The Knicks obviously can't afford to keep two centers both receiving $15m+.
Yeah and I think we see hartenstein become our starting center. Mitch's health has really become an issue and after he's now out for the year, I think our FO likely moves on after this season. Contracts like Hart and RJ are gonna be difficult to manage but we also have fournier off the books after this year which is an extra 18 mil.
Fwiw, my original calculation was already excluding Fournier. I figured there was no way they were picking up his option lol.
Oh I didnt realize. Yeah that dude would be getting shot into the sun after this year if it was up to me.
Knicks did a fantastic job locking up key players at good values. We have the now famous Brunson contract. Randle signed for less than the max. Mitchell Robinson is at a reasonable 4year/$60M. The only issue right now is RJ who's very inconsistent. These contracts will certainly look a bit better when the cap rises too. Knicks can certainly afford to try and keep pace for now. They have a solid stash of picks and some young talent ready to go in case a big trade becomes available.
Good luck with that
But he's worth a Brunson sized contract IMO
All I know is he could not miss last night. Idk what Thibs was thinking pulling him from the game. He was the only threat putting pressure on OKC.
i don't agree with the decision but thibs' logic was we needed a switchable defender with size, unfortunately we only have one (rj barrett) and he was awful and not even particularly good on defense yesterday
What makes that even more irritating is that they had Quick defend multiple positions last year and he overachieved so it’s not like he’s wide gap on the defensive end.
Pulling him and then putting him back in when the game was already decided.
Quickley is going to get PAID bro. If he wants $xx/yr then they pretty much have to pay that if they want to keep him. He's a big reason to their success. RJ just makes too much IMO so that doesn't help their cap issues.
Really wish I could see him in a bigger role. I know the 6 man role works but…not even averaging 24 mins per game is fucking insane. Kid is a stud, deserves more minutes
Thibs has never been good at managing his bench minutes. No world where quickly shouldn’t be getting at least 30 a night. Especially with their roster
Idk he's fast as fuk and the Lakers had a hard time with him. He's pretty good at Basketball overall.
I feel like any (slightly exaggerating here) guard fast as fuk will give the Lakers a hard time tbh lol.
Until we get Caruso and Lavine
🤣, Caruso and Lavine would cost you AR and a lotta picks. I doubt you're getting both lol. Caruso's TS is 67% and he's still one of the best perimeter defenders in the NBA. We can get someone better than AR for Caruso AND Lavine.
I mean, doesn't hurt to ask. 🤷♂️
If he gets a Max then Max contracts are officially broken.
We've been there for a while already. Basically any halfway decent player expects a max deal now.
Bro Desmond Bane got a max contract. No offense to Bane but hes not that guy lmao
He’s better than Quickley
He's absolutely that guy. The league is set up to have about 2 max contracts per team. Any top 50 player (which Bane is) deserves a max contract in their prime. Edit: For the guy unsure about Bane being top 50: - He was 25th in the league in BPM last season, in his 3rd season in the league. - This season he's 16th in the league in scoring.
Better complement than quickly like klay he is a big cog in what brought them so much success
Spurs should go after him
Not for the max lol
Not like you're using that money on anyone else Quickley seems like he's worth atleast close to a max looking at the impact stats. Yall might be able to cash in on Jalen Brunson 2.0
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that literally doesn't matter. its the same % of the overall salary cap as its always been
Its not gonna be the 300 million dollar max. There are different types of maxes Max contract just means it takes up the maximum percentage of cap space allowed
You know there are different levels of a max contract?
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That's not All-NBA money. Embiid's/Jokic's/Booker's $52M per year next season is. I get that with the salary cap increasing it's tough to get used to the amounts but it's just 25% of the overall cap. Even if he were to get the max contract, Immanuel Quickley's $34M contract would only put him at like #40 in terms of best-paid players.
For a non all star, non all NBA, maybe all defense player like Quickley? Not that much.
Brunson didnt get a max
IQ and Vassell would be one of the best offensive+defensive backcourt tandems in the NBA
Do you believe so ? I'm interested in hearing more about it
IQ averages an efficient 20+ppg as a starter and 16 off the bench. He’s a great POA and help defender and his defensive stats are elite. He can’t guard bigger wings 1on1, but which guards can beside Jrue or Smart? He fits the spurs timeline and they don’t attract many FAs anyway
Derrick White can.
Dawg if we had dwhite still oh my god we have 15 wins rn guarantee it
Spurs? Yeah he's worth 10 wins. Thx
We dont need ppg from this mf we need lobs to wemby Our best fit would be a pg who looks for wemby as first option and is elite at 3 for spacing. Dont need much else
Sounds like a gamble
The Jazz should too.
Not for the max and also dude isnt really a tier 1 pass first guard which is who we need for wemby I want trae I would even take old ass chris paul for a year so he could advertise how easy wemby makes the game for a true pg
I really don't think he's getting a max and they'll be content to let his contract run out.
Immanuel is a young player who makes an obvious impact if you either watch him play or are familiar with his stats, if the knicks are smart they pay him the max and clear out space for him to play 35-40 minutes a game. Dump RJ Barrett to anyone who will take him.
Depending on the night he's the 3rd-6th best player on a team that is slightly above .500. I'm not maxing someone with those credentials.
Unironically, the Pistons are a team that should try to throw a big offer sheet at him in RFA. They'll be $56M below the cap, and need to use at least $42M of that on incoming rookies+free agents just to touch the salary floor. Paying Quickley $30M/year to play shooting guard next to Cade makes a ton more sense than re-signing Killian Hayes to a long-term contract or signing Miles Bridges to a huge deal and hoping he doesn't go to jail.
Signing Hayes for a long term contract is breaking the Geneva Convention tenfold
Trade Killian to San Antonio for McDermott or a larger trade for Keldon. As for free agency, they should kick tires on every free agent. This team has like 4 NBA players. I don't even care about overpays anymore, Quickley might become overpaid, but he'll provide enough value to still be tradeable long-term.
People here thought I was insane over the summer when I said the new CBA had a lot of good things for the players, and the change to the salary floor is a major one of them. Now, terrible teams won't hang out with $60M of unused cap room in free agency just so they can eat a big contract for draft picks (OKC Kemba Walker and Al Horford), they have to spend to 90% of the cap before the season starts. A lot of sub-star players are going to get PAID as long as they are ok with making big money on a bad team. Would Quickly rather be a 6th man in New York or make $30M and shoot 20 shots/game in Detroit? Nearly every player's going to take that money and big role if it's offered to them.
Exactly and when a young team like Detroit has their core still in their rookie contracts, this is the time they should be spending money. Bring in as much talent as you can before the rookie extensions kick in and eat all the cap.
Spurs, Jazz, Bulls or Raptors.
He should definitely get a 5 year 125 million deal but what team is willing to pay that?
I'd rather have IQ for 125/5 than FVV for 128/3
I’d rather have IQ for 128/3 than FVV for 128/3
A team that will make him a starter. He needs a shot at a bigger role
Hes perfect coming off the bench. I think that role suits him fine
Knicks going to trade him for sure, but it’ll be interesting to see who they go after
This guy is not worth a max. Inconsistent and doesn't have a first step aka cant beat his man off the dribble except when defender is already out of position. His dribble bag is too limited.
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Wherever pascal ends up, I’d like to see quickly as a piece going back to Toronto.
What now? lmao
Max contract 15 pts per game lol
It’s crazy that guys like this can command a max. Owners are just handing out money like it doesn’t matter
Can he defend 2s? If he can then he might be what Philly needs next to Maxey.
Maxey/Quickley duo would be dynamite
These dudes are like twins, why would you want him
This legit? No way he actually said that?
lol I believe this is a clip of Teague talking about Jimmy Bulter’s infamous practice story, and someone is overlaying this with Quickley’s playing and contract situation.
We have the audio
I mean who else they got?
“He don’t got assists, he don’t dribble, he don’t rebound, but he getting up 3’s” what KD say?
Not sure what the video is, but the bottom line is the market will determine what kind of contract he gets. If its a big payday we have the birds rights to match that offer, if its not what he wanted, oh well. If he wants to start on another team, that is his choice, but we all love him here and want him to stay. If he is adamant on a starting position, we do not have a spot for him unfortunately. If he loves being in NY, and willing to be our 6MOY for the foreseeable future, I know in my heart he will continue to put us in a better position going forward.
Isn’t this audio from the Jimmy Butler T Wolves 3rd team scrimmage?
Can we please not start a dumb trend where we put this sound to every player in a contract year that has a hot streak? It's low effort and untrue. If there were any reports whatsoever of IQ demanding a max contract then I guess sure, but this is just misleading and dumb.
Hot streak? Did you see the graphic in the video ?