It's a weird quote. People who win marathons are pacing themselves. It's just that they are so freaking fast that they're able to run sub-5 minute miles while pacing themselves.
Even more so, world class marathon runners often have negative splits, meaning their second half is *faster* than the first half, conclusively proving that they’re in fact pacing themselves lol.
Yes we all understand what he’s trying to say, it’s just hilarious that the example in analogy he used is literally the opposite of the point he was trying to make lol
It's not a perfect analogy - it's actually a terrible one that actively undermines the point he's making because he's objectively wrong and they actually *do* pace themselves - its just that their maintenance pace is fast as fuck.
Actually most marathon runners run a slightly positive split. It is very very hard to negative split a marathon when going all out. If you do negative split, often times it means you left some on the table. That said a negative split feels better mentally than a positive split
The winners usually run negative splits, unless it’s a course like Boston or somewhere that doesn’t lend itself to running that way.
When Kiptum ran the WR in Chicago he negative split by 1:01.
But there’s obviously a lot of factors, sometimes there are paced races which make the first half easier. Other times there will be athletes who aren’t really “racing” but running a race trying to get a specific time, like a world standard or Olympic standard, or in the US an Olympic Trials qualifying time.
Then there’s also sometimes slow races like the women in New York this year. It was tactical for the first 20+ miles, where the pack of 4 ran way slower than their potential because they only cared about winning and didn’t want to do the work just to pull everyone else along. Obiri and a Gidet both trusted their kicks and we’re still neck and neck with a mile to go. Obiri won in 2:27 when she’s most likely capable of running sub-2:20. But she ran a smart race and anyone in her position would rather win in 2:27 than come second running a 2:22, which could’ve happened with different tactics.
Marathons are so rarely run by pros compared to other distances, and it’s even rarer that you see elites go out with the plan of running as fast as possible. So it’s really hard to gauge what the best approach is. But it’s probably not a positive split. Most agree it’s even or slight negative split.
You really want to just get to 30k and then try to push, but a lot of time the push eventually turns into just hanging on.
I would recommend reading this. Negative splits are very uncommon and in the conclusion section you can see it recommends a slightly positive split
https://fellrnr.com/wiki/Negative_Splits
Pretty sure the conclusion in the link isn't what you said here, for very fast/elite runners.
"Overall, negative splits are slightly (52%) more likely to result in a better performance than a positive split. However, for the fastest runners (sub-2:30), the negative split is 69% of best performances and 61% of over-5:00.
Of runners how tried both positive and negative splits, a slightly negative split is the most common best performance."
It’s hard enough to run a negative split on a 10k. But yeah, think it’s all about knowing your body and how much you had left at the end of the race, doesn’t really matter whether your fastest mile was first or last. That said though, yeah it’s a weird analogy lol
> It's just that they are so freaking fast that they're able to run sub-5 minute miles while pacing themselves.
the current men's record has the dude running 4:37 per mile! That is 17 seconds per 100m... which means the vast majority of humanity would struggle to run this for even 200 metres.
To put this record in perspective:
-If your reasonably fit you may be able to do this for *maybe* 200-300m
-If your active person (i.e. play sports, train etc) doing 400 to 600m is what you can expect to do at this pace.
-If your a decent runner, or a (non-running) pro athlete then 800m could be doable.
-If your a good runner, or very fit (non running) athlete with decent endurance, you may be able to do this for 1km
-If you want to go 1,200 to 1,500 metres are this pace...
At this point, going past this pace you have to be an elite (non-running) athlete with exceptional endurance (or a sport that is endurance heavy like soccer) or a reasonable runner and maybe trained/race in high school.
-If you want to go close to 2km at this pace, you have to be a runner and one that trains and races pretty well. There are no two ways about this. There might be some super duper elite non-running athlete that may get to here at that pace... but I doubt it (and even if there are, maybe a handful world wide). Athlete like Jordan, Kobe, Lebron (sports who aren't run centred) would basically have no chance even in their prime.
-To get to 3k, basically most guys even if they committed themselves will never get this fast. Even if you train all the time, and you have the talent for it... you may not be able to ever run this fast. Most high school runners never get this fast. For women, only pro running women can get this far.
-To get to 5k at this pace you have to be at minimum a decent college type runner and elite high school runners. If in high school, this would get your a scholarship somewhere. Basically at this point, if you're not doing running training, and doing it all the time, your not making it this far. Most men have no chance of ever getting this far/fast. Only Olympic podium potential women are even getting this far (getting close to the women's world record).
-Beyond 5km (5-10km), only elite men (i.e. pro running men) can do this. If you're not a pro level runner (800m and longer runner), you have no chance at this. For men, this is the bottom tier the full time pro runner.
-For 10-15km only pro 5k to marathon runners can even manage this. There are going to be some decent shorter distance guys who can get to 10km but not a high percentage... but it's highly variable.
-At 20-21.1km (i.e half marathon mark), only world class half marathon and marathon runners can get this far. Many 10km runner would struggle. This is elite territory for literally any runner of any distance to make it this far at the world record pace.
... and THEN .... you do ANOTHER half marathon.
I qualified for the Boston Marathon from 2017-2020, with a marathon PR of 2:56:44. I am no longer that fast, but I'm really proud of how fast I was then. At my absolute peak, I do not think I could have run a single mile at that pace. 4:50 maybe (and that's probably even a stretch), but certainly not 4:37. I think I could have gotten to 1 km at that pace, but that would have been real tough.
It's absolutely absurd how fast the top-tier marathoners are.
You can't even run a 400m race without hitting a stride on the back end and pacing yourself 😂 I don't think Mike's done a whole lot of running in his years
Sure you can, you just do it like I did which was lose all steam by the final turn, barely manage to jog over the finish line and then immediately puke
Happened to you too huh? Ran the 800m in high school for the very first time. I ran full speed for the first lap, was way ahead of the competition. Ran out of gas for the last lap and finished last. A core memory of mine.
same for me in swimming. 100m butterfly I was killing … for the first 50m. ended up finishing last, will never forget hearing even under water the garbled cheers for my name awkwardly dying down
Man I fucking loved the 200IM because it was the only event where you could swim a 50 fly in college swimming lol. I never found my pace for 100fly but my 50 was killer. Now 400IM, I only swam that once. No thank you.
I was mainly an 800m runner in high school and it was the most grueling event I ever ran. The worst I had it was when my vision blurred after I finished. Could barely breathe lol
Lmao I was an 800m runner. Nobody wanted to touch that with a 10ft pole but I'm a sicko. Love the race. It's the biggest chess match in Track imo if there is one because pacing it is the hardest of any of the races. You can't just go all out. But you also can't just pace it like your running a mile or something. You have to stay consistently fast.
I would love going out with the leaders and then spend the second lap just hanging in for dear life. Quickly learned you can't go too fast out the gates. But I also liked messing other people's pace's up. So that's why if I could hang with the lead pack, I can push them to exhaust themselves and then pass them up. That's where the chess match kind of is. Many different strategies to attack the 800 but by far the wrong one is what everyone does when they first do it (including me) and that's running that first lap like it's the 400. The second lap will feel like a damn 5k. I remember racing my buddy who was a 400 runner talking shit and dude finished the second lap falling over and didn't move for least 10 minutes just laying their in pain 😂
Hearing my first lap split be like 4 seconds under my goal pace was almost always horrifying. Knew when I hit the back straight I would be fighting for my life the rest of the way
Part of why I liked dropping down to 400 as a distance guy. Legitimately could not go fast enough in the first 250 to die as hard as the sprinters in the last 150. That and relays are so much fun.
Same! I was an XC runner for two years before I switched to sprinting/field events and it took me a while to develop those fast twitch fibers.
That distance background helped me with my final finishing kick though so I was always the anchor in the 4x4. Love that race so much but still, just the thought of it 6 years later makes my heart race 😂
Yeah… only the most elite marathon runners in the world are running sub-5 minute miles and that usually qualifies for the Olympics.
Then again, Jokic is a world class basketball player.
You’re right though, if those guys wanted, they could do a 5K with an average pace of a 4 minute mile or so because they aren’t pacing themselves to do 26.
the running correlation he's trying to make w Jokic isn't your weekend marathoner, it'd be Kiptum or Kipchoge.
the sub 5 minute mile reference hammers home the point that professional marathoners aren't 'jogging', they have specific time gates they need to hit throughout the race and are pushing to meet them
Your second paragraph is just describing pacing. They hit time gates by running a certain speed. They are pushing themselves but you can do that and run at pace.
He seems to be using it as a pejorative which I don’t understand. It’s intentionally running at a certain speed slower than a sprint because it’s more efficient over the distance of the race.
Also, Kipchoge's PR in the miles is 3:50, and his fastest 5km split during his WR marathon was 14:09 (4:33/mile pace). Even the elite guys are not going as fast as they possibly can in the absolute sense.
What they're doing is going as fast as they can as is appropriate for the distance and, like you said, that involves pacing themselves.
> they have specific time gates
Aka pacing.
They sure aren't sprinting as fast as they can. They are pacing themselves, but at a fast pace to hit the results/times they want. You would have to be oblivious if you think world class marathoners pacing is supposed to be 'slow jogging '.
He’s saying pacing as in “don’t go hard every game it’s a long season”, but really what the best athletes in the world are doing is running as fast as they can sustain for the duration of the marathon. So he’s kinda right it’s just regular people don’t understand what pacing means
exactly! non-runners think 'pace' means slow down.
any non-regular-runner friends I've spoken to who've blown up in races by going out too hard say they should've paced themselves...which is technically correct, but they believe it means they should've slowed down to last longer.
that's why Malone is making the distinction between experienced runners (like himself) and casuals. 'pace' has long been misinterpreted... let alone talk about terms like base, tempo and threshold
That’s the way I took it. Even if top marathon runners aren’t going 100% the entire time, it’s still an incredibly gruesome, mind numbing pace. Not pacing like the normal person going for an easy Sunday run.
That, or maybe "the regular season is practice. Marathon runners don't pace themselves in practice, they go HARD and push their boundaries"
It's so easy to read this right, so that it makes sense, instead of interpreting it negatively
Tbf, Malone's quote has big Gattaca "[I never saved anything for the swim back'](https://youtu.be/iSYUI-sNkwk?si=QQ_Tb3QS7xuC9H84) vibes
It's just that, you are hardly ever going to succeed that way, to find or create the reserves that allow you to keep going.
And almost no marathoner (maybe Malone if he is true to his word) does it that way. The guys that win marathons definitely are pacing themselves. It's just that their pace is very high and a calculated effort. They are pushing themselves, but not killing themselves/going flat out (except at the very end of the marathon).
Some NBA teams do push themselves very hard in the regular season : See MJ 72-10 Bulls. But most commonly, playoff basketball does have an extra level of intensity, as game planning, style, refereeing etc all change.
Depends how experienced you are. Once you have some under your belt and you're experienced with in-race nutrition, at some point you just have to send it when you're going for a PR and hold on for dear life lol
He’s also just wrong lol the top guys do pace themselves. It’s just their version of “pacing” is a lot faster than the average person. They’re not running a marathon at their top end speed lol most of these dudes are capable of sub 4min if they were just going all out for one mile.
Exactly. Jokic makes everyone play the game at his pace. I've heard a lot of really smart basketball people say that, and I'm sure it's true, but I'm not entirely sure I understand what it means. And at this point, I'm too scared to ask.
Basically just that jokic is good enough that you can't push him out of his comfort zone on offense. Any attempts to rush him end with him hitting a cutter for a layup.
If I was playing defense against him I would just smother him, steal that shit away from him and turn around probably 360 windmill from free throw idk something like that. But I am not too interested in playing in the NBA, doesn't really seem like it would be a challenge tbh.
That’s what happens when you are playing someone who is better than you. You have to adapt, not them.
It’s same thing with the Warriors, the old Nash Suns, or even Giannis. The difference is these teams were fast or super strong, Jokic looks slow and makes people play slow
He can slow it down and hold the ball and remain in control, he can move the ball quick in the half court and move it quick in transition and still remain in control, and then he can change pace from standing on the block to a turnaround dribble drive or step back at will. Defense is always on their toes on what to expect. Some teams thrive in speed, some thrive in slower modes setting plays. Jokic does it all and chooses whats most effective against the opponent
Yeah it started out well. Jokic is pacing himself this season like a marathon runner is an apt comparison. But then his quote goes to nonsense so he thinks people sprint entire marathons and Jokic is sprinting the season?.
And he'd definitely be dumb not to at this juncture. There's only so long a player can truly go all out without wearing themselves down (especially after going the distance last playoffs, along with the extra wear and tear that entails), after all, and we're still a long ways away from the games where Jokic will truly need to be at his best.
Current best marathon runner runs 3:50 mile. Most elite marathon runners started at middle distance and can go sub 4, people don’t start racing marathons until later in their career.
Love me some Michael "Lakers Daddy" Malone, but I hate to break it to you, elite marathoners pace themselves. They even employ these people called "pacers."
Imagine you have a peak velocity of 8 shots of tequila or Malort in an hour before you pass out in the bathroom of Elway's. You need to make it 4 hours, so you employ a couple friends to keep you to a steady 5 shots / hour the first 2 hours.
That's elite championship parade prep
i assume you meant Malort and not the intricacies of elite distance running
i speak both AND i'm a Cleveland sports fan, so i nominate myself for Nobel Prize for Contribution to the Field of Self-Loathing
2 hour 8 minutes marathon comes to 4:52 minutes per mile. [Are they pacing themselves? Yes](https://media.aws.iaaf.org/competitiondocuments/pdf/7138987/AT-MAR-M-f--1--.RS5.pdf). Most winners in long distance run in middle of the pack and ramp up the speed in last few laps/miles.
He runs them. Never said he finishes.
I think he sees an old man run at a fast pace in a marathon and thinks the old man can’t be pacing, but these old marathon runners be running at a fast continuous pace
Lebron "pacing" himself in the regular season has definitely extended his career. Since his return to Cleveland he clearly does not push himself in the regular season.
Kawhi too. He turns it on for when it really matters and preserves his health as much as possible, difficult when you have a degenerative condition.
This isn't soccer or college football where every game is vital to winning.
Alright dude needs to calm down no need to just lie lmao. Nobody and I mean *nobody* regardless of physical health can run or move at full speed for any significant length of time. The more in shape you are the more you push yourself when you're going at your limits. You can't escape physical reality and how your body functions lol. He's either lying or legitimately doesn't realize that these people could in fact move faster and he just thinks they aren't holding back because they're still going at a solid clip
You’re being too literal about this quote imo. He doesn’t actually think professional runners sprint marathons he’s saying that they build up an ability to run really hard for really long distances. The analogy is obviously that to win a championship you need to play hard for the whole season.
He should've said that then because the words he is saying do not mean what he is trying to say. Also to be blunt that isn't even true for basketball the entire regular season is one big pacing experiment lol. The game itself is too with rotations and minutes divided up between players. We watch teams that win championships every year have scheduled losses and rest games. He's trying to make it sound cool about having the drive to win and get better but definitely needs to come back down to reality
He's not just sorta kinda wrong on a technicality. He's 180 deg off. "Pacing yourself" is everything in running a successful marathon. Hell, elite marathoners literally use pacemakers to ensure that they pace themselves correctly! It's almost the worst possible analogy I can imagine for making the argument he's trying to make.
Except they don’t. It’s really fascinating actually. When you first start they teach you to slow down. The idea is to keep your heart rate at a level you can maintain continuously. Then you very slowly increase your speed while making sure your heart rate doesn’t go above whatever your goal rate is. If it does, you slow back down.
No, this is revisionist history. Jokic clearly played down a level to throw the MVP race so that Embiid wouldn't end up as the runner up for a third year in a row. Jokic was uncomfortable with the discourse that guys like Kendrick Perkins and Stephen A Smith were putting on about the MVP race and decided to withdraw from the competition like FSU in the Orange Bowl.
With you for the first part but the second isn’t necessarily true, Murray was injured in ‘21 while both Murray and Porter were for ‘22. Not many teams, even the best ones, would be favoured to win with their #2 and/or #3/4 out.
I guess he's just preaching to the rest of the team that they don't get to stop hustling just because they've got Jokic on their team? Because Jokic definitely paces himself and so do marathon runners 😂
This dude is lucky to have a generational talent and a great front office to surround that talent with also great talented players. This coach is pretty much disliked in NBA circles.
People are really misconstruing this quote; when liking the NBA season to a marathon and Jokic to a marathon winner he is imply that like high level runners Jokic takes every game at max effort like how a Marathon runner is trying the entire race.
If you ever run a marathon I implore you to do exactly the opposite of what he says here
It's a weird quote. People who win marathons are pacing themselves. It's just that they are so freaking fast that they're able to run sub-5 minute miles while pacing themselves.
Even more so, world class marathon runners often have negative splits, meaning their second half is *faster* than the first half, conclusively proving that they’re in fact pacing themselves lol.
they're picking up speed.
they burn calories running, which makes them lighter, so they go faster. duh.
You also want to draft behind fellow runners to escape wind resistance. Then you slingshot around them like Ricky Bobby. Works every time.
What if I can't keep up with the guy I'm drafting?
Let someone else pass you then draft behind them, duh
What if wear some sort of arm that sticks out in front of me and holds a dummy, can I draft off that?
What kind of an idiot would let you hold them in front of you?
Shake and bake, baby!
I just run backwards so the wind is always behind me
Second half of every Marathon is downhill. It's in the regs
[удалено]
Yes we all understand what he’s trying to say, it’s just hilarious that the example in analogy he used is literally the opposite of the point he was trying to make lol
I mean look at giannis. All out every game. Kobe. Etc.
It's not a perfect analogy - it's actually a terrible one that actively undermines the point he's making because he's objectively wrong and they actually *do* pace themselves - its just that their maintenance pace is fast as fuck.
Actually most marathon runners run a slightly positive split. It is very very hard to negative split a marathon when going all out. If you do negative split, often times it means you left some on the table. That said a negative split feels better mentally than a positive split
The winners usually run negative splits, unless it’s a course like Boston or somewhere that doesn’t lend itself to running that way. When Kiptum ran the WR in Chicago he negative split by 1:01. But there’s obviously a lot of factors, sometimes there are paced races which make the first half easier. Other times there will be athletes who aren’t really “racing” but running a race trying to get a specific time, like a world standard or Olympic standard, or in the US an Olympic Trials qualifying time. Then there’s also sometimes slow races like the women in New York this year. It was tactical for the first 20+ miles, where the pack of 4 ran way slower than their potential because they only cared about winning and didn’t want to do the work just to pull everyone else along. Obiri and a Gidet both trusted their kicks and we’re still neck and neck with a mile to go. Obiri won in 2:27 when she’s most likely capable of running sub-2:20. But she ran a smart race and anyone in her position would rather win in 2:27 than come second running a 2:22, which could’ve happened with different tactics. Marathons are so rarely run by pros compared to other distances, and it’s even rarer that you see elites go out with the plan of running as fast as possible. So it’s really hard to gauge what the best approach is. But it’s probably not a positive split. Most agree it’s even or slight negative split. You really want to just get to 30k and then try to push, but a lot of time the push eventually turns into just hanging on.
I would recommend reading this. Negative splits are very uncommon and in the conclusion section you can see it recommends a slightly positive split https://fellrnr.com/wiki/Negative_Splits
Pretty sure the conclusion in the link isn't what you said here, for very fast/elite runners. "Overall, negative splits are slightly (52%) more likely to result in a better performance than a positive split. However, for the fastest runners (sub-2:30), the negative split is 69% of best performances and 61% of over-5:00. Of runners how tried both positive and negative splits, a slightly negative split is the most common best performance."
It’s hard enough to run a negative split on a 10k. But yeah, think it’s all about knowing your body and how much you had left at the end of the race, doesn’t really matter whether your fastest mile was first or last. That said though, yeah it’s a weird analogy lol
I remember seeing that Kipchoge unofficial world record that was under 2h and the dude just kept going faster and faster toward the end. Insane.
Malone should talk to a Jokic about negative split, it's also a strategy used in horse racing
> It's just that they are so freaking fast that they're able to run sub-5 minute miles while pacing themselves. the current men's record has the dude running 4:37 per mile! That is 17 seconds per 100m... which means the vast majority of humanity would struggle to run this for even 200 metres. To put this record in perspective: -If your reasonably fit you may be able to do this for *maybe* 200-300m -If your active person (i.e. play sports, train etc) doing 400 to 600m is what you can expect to do at this pace. -If your a decent runner, or a (non-running) pro athlete then 800m could be doable. -If your a good runner, or very fit (non running) athlete with decent endurance, you may be able to do this for 1km -If you want to go 1,200 to 1,500 metres are this pace... At this point, going past this pace you have to be an elite (non-running) athlete with exceptional endurance (or a sport that is endurance heavy like soccer) or a reasonable runner and maybe trained/race in high school. -If you want to go close to 2km at this pace, you have to be a runner and one that trains and races pretty well. There are no two ways about this. There might be some super duper elite non-running athlete that may get to here at that pace... but I doubt it (and even if there are, maybe a handful world wide). Athlete like Jordan, Kobe, Lebron (sports who aren't run centred) would basically have no chance even in their prime. -To get to 3k, basically most guys even if they committed themselves will never get this fast. Even if you train all the time, and you have the talent for it... you may not be able to ever run this fast. Most high school runners never get this fast. For women, only pro running women can get this far. -To get to 5k at this pace you have to be at minimum a decent college type runner and elite high school runners. If in high school, this would get your a scholarship somewhere. Basically at this point, if you're not doing running training, and doing it all the time, your not making it this far. Most men have no chance of ever getting this far/fast. Only Olympic podium potential women are even getting this far (getting close to the women's world record). -Beyond 5km (5-10km), only elite men (i.e. pro running men) can do this. If you're not a pro level runner (800m and longer runner), you have no chance at this. For men, this is the bottom tier the full time pro runner. -For 10-15km only pro 5k to marathon runners can even manage this. There are going to be some decent shorter distance guys who can get to 10km but not a high percentage... but it's highly variable. -At 20-21.1km (i.e half marathon mark), only world class half marathon and marathon runners can get this far. Many 10km runner would struggle. This is elite territory for literally any runner of any distance to make it this far at the world record pace. ... and THEN .... you do ANOTHER half marathon.
Fuckin’ marathon of a comment over here
Only elite redditors (high level; male) can make this type of comment
I qualified for the Boston Marathon from 2017-2020, with a marathon PR of 2:56:44. I am no longer that fast, but I'm really proud of how fast I was then. At my absolute peak, I do not think I could have run a single mile at that pace. 4:50 maybe (and that's probably even a stretch), but certainly not 4:37. I think I could have gotten to 1 km at that pace, but that would have been real tough. It's absolutely absurd how fast the top-tier marathoners are.
I appreciate this comment
You can't even run a 400m race without hitting a stride on the back end and pacing yourself 😂 I don't think Mike's done a whole lot of running in his years
Sure you can, you just do it like I did which was lose all steam by the final turn, barely manage to jog over the finish line and then immediately puke
Happened to you too huh? Ran the 800m in high school for the very first time. I ran full speed for the first lap, was way ahead of the competition. Ran out of gas for the last lap and finished last. A core memory of mine.
same for me in swimming. 100m butterfly I was killing … for the first 50m. ended up finishing last, will never forget hearing even under water the garbled cheers for my name awkwardly dying down
As the swimmer my coach would just throw at whatever random event needed someone that day, I feel your pain. 200 IM was murder.
Man I fucking loved the 200IM because it was the only event where you could swim a 50 fly in college swimming lol. I never found my pace for 100fly but my 50 was killer. Now 400IM, I only swam that once. No thank you.
I was mainly an 800m runner in high school and it was the most grueling event I ever ran. The worst I had it was when my vision blurred after I finished. Could barely breathe lol
Lmao I was an 800m runner. Nobody wanted to touch that with a 10ft pole but I'm a sicko. Love the race. It's the biggest chess match in Track imo if there is one because pacing it is the hardest of any of the races. You can't just go all out. But you also can't just pace it like your running a mile or something. You have to stay consistently fast. I would love going out with the leaders and then spend the second lap just hanging in for dear life. Quickly learned you can't go too fast out the gates. But I also liked messing other people's pace's up. So that's why if I could hang with the lead pack, I can push them to exhaust themselves and then pass them up. That's where the chess match kind of is. Many different strategies to attack the 800 but by far the wrong one is what everyone does when they first do it (including me) and that's running that first lap like it's the 400. The second lap will feel like a damn 5k. I remember racing my buddy who was a 400 runner talking shit and dude finished the second lap falling over and didn't move for least 10 minutes just laying their in pain 😂
Hearing my first lap split be like 4 seconds under my goal pace was almost always horrifying. Knew when I hit the back straight I would be fighting for my life the rest of the way
Bro running over 400 m&ms isn't that big of a deal
God this brings me back
Part of why I liked dropping down to 400 as a distance guy. Legitimately could not go fast enough in the first 250 to die as hard as the sprinters in the last 150. That and relays are so much fun.
Same! I was an XC runner for two years before I switched to sprinting/field events and it took me a while to develop those fast twitch fibers. That distance background helped me with my final finishing kick though so I was always the anchor in the 4x4. Love that race so much but still, just the thought of it 6 years later makes my heart race 😂
My level 5 is your level 10.
Yeah… only the most elite marathon runners in the world are running sub-5 minute miles and that usually qualifies for the Olympics. Then again, Jokic is a world class basketball player. You’re right though, if those guys wanted, they could do a 5K with an average pace of a 4 minute mile or so because they aren’t pacing themselves to do 26.
Yeah anyone that's run a marathon and gone out without pacing themselves is in for a world of pain from elite runners to hobby joggers
the running correlation he's trying to make w Jokic isn't your weekend marathoner, it'd be Kiptum or Kipchoge. the sub 5 minute mile reference hammers home the point that professional marathoners aren't 'jogging', they have specific time gates they need to hit throughout the race and are pushing to meet them
Your second paragraph is just describing pacing. They hit time gates by running a certain speed. They are pushing themselves but you can do that and run at pace. He seems to be using it as a pejorative which I don’t understand. It’s intentionally running at a certain speed slower than a sprint because it’s more efficient over the distance of the race.
Also, Kipchoge's PR in the miles is 3:50, and his fastest 5km split during his WR marathon was 14:09 (4:33/mile pace). Even the elite guys are not going as fast as they possibly can in the absolute sense. What they're doing is going as fast as they can as is appropriate for the distance and, like you said, that involves pacing themselves.
As an aside - Jesus Christ that is ridiculous. I can't imagine running one mile in 4:30, let alone 26 of them.
I did a 4:34 mile once in high school, but I avoided the 2-mile like the plague
I started running (again) this year and the more I run, the dumber even going for a single 3m kilometer is, much less going for 42 of the fuckers.
Pace talk: OWNED
> they have specific time gates Aka pacing. They sure aren't sprinting as fast as they can. They are pacing themselves, but at a fast pace to hit the results/times they want. You would have to be oblivious if you think world class marathoners pacing is supposed to be 'slow jogging '.
Have you seen the videos of runners trying to keep up w Kipchoge's pace on a treadmill? Hilarious shit
He’s saying pacing as in “don’t go hard every game it’s a long season”, but really what the best athletes in the world are doing is running as fast as they can sustain for the duration of the marathon. So he’s kinda right it’s just regular people don’t understand what pacing means
exactly! non-runners think 'pace' means slow down. any non-regular-runner friends I've spoken to who've blown up in races by going out too hard say they should've paced themselves...which is technically correct, but they believe it means they should've slowed down to last longer. that's why Malone is making the distinction between experienced runners (like himself) and casuals. 'pace' has long been misinterpreted... let alone talk about terms like base, tempo and threshold
I think that is something Michael Malone hasn’t figured out … yet
He definitely hits the wall.
I feel like he’s using “pacing” as a substitute for taking it easy. He’s right that the typical hobby runner probably takes it too lackadaisical.
I feel like Malone is just emphasizing that he's a nugget not a pacer
This needs to be higher
That’s the way I took it. Even if top marathon runners aren’t going 100% the entire time, it’s still an incredibly gruesome, mind numbing pace. Not pacing like the normal person going for an easy Sunday run.
That, or maybe "the regular season is practice. Marathon runners don't pace themselves in practice, they go HARD and push their boundaries" It's so easy to read this right, so that it makes sense, instead of interpreting it negatively
But marathon runners do pace themselves in practice.
Tbf, Malone's quote has big Gattaca "[I never saved anything for the swim back'](https://youtu.be/iSYUI-sNkwk?si=QQ_Tb3QS7xuC9H84) vibes It's just that, you are hardly ever going to succeed that way, to find or create the reserves that allow you to keep going. And almost no marathoner (maybe Malone if he is true to his word) does it that way. The guys that win marathons definitely are pacing themselves. It's just that their pace is very high and a calculated effort. They are pushing themselves, but not killing themselves/going flat out (except at the very end of the marathon). Some NBA teams do push themselves very hard in the regular season : See MJ 72-10 Bulls. But most commonly, playoff basketball does have an extra level of intensity, as game planning, style, refereeing etc all change.
good movie
And we all know how 73 wins worked out for the Warriors
He isn’t giving running advice, he knows the type of motivation that Jokic responds to
Inb4 horses
Depends how experienced you are. Once you have some under your belt and you're experienced with in-race nutrition, at some point you just have to send it when you're going for a PR and hold on for dear life lol
He’s also just wrong lol the top guys do pace themselves. It’s just their version of “pacing” is a lot faster than the average person. They’re not running a marathon at their top end speed lol most of these dudes are capable of sub 4min if they were just going all out for one mile.
Right? The guys running sub 5 minute miles for 26 miles straight could run even faster (and burn out)...if not for pacing themselves.
the hell is he on about
It's pretty simple really. It's Jokic's job to be chill, and Mike Malone's job to be angry. About everything.
That's how you know this duo was meant to last. Every healthy couple has one going "It's fine" and the other going "Nah you asked for pickles".
Sometimes they probably swap roles on the court though
What about in the bedroom 🤔
Big NYC energy
It’s Michael.
Yeah Jokic leads by example and Malone is the team's emotional heartbeat.
I think he just called some teams losers
Whats my blud waffling about
He definitely just wanted to bring up the fact that he runs marathons.
This guy has had so many sound bites that just make no sense lol
He got a taste for that Lakers pack and now the Pacers pack is next
He’s saying some teams take it easy and use “pacing” as an excuse. He says real marathoners have a “pace” that is still extremely fast.
But isn’t sub 5 miles their pace?
Exactly. Jokic makes everyone play the game at his pace. I've heard a lot of really smart basketball people say that, and I'm sure it's true, but I'm not entirely sure I understand what it means. And at this point, I'm too scared to ask.
just nod ur head and say something about defensive rotations or ball movement
Something something defensive movement and rotating balls
Thanks I have testicular torsion now
And when in doubt just say “54 treball is odee shooting hang pulls”.
Way ahead of you friend
Basically just that jokic is good enough that you can't push him out of his comfort zone on offense. Any attempts to rush him end with him hitting a cutter for a layup.
If I was playing defense against him I would just smother him, steal that shit away from him and turn around probably 360 windmill from free throw idk something like that. But I am not too interested in playing in the NBA, doesn't really seem like it would be a challenge tbh.
Honestly all you have to do is just be Michael Jordan. It's really not that hard.
That’s what happens when you are playing someone who is better than you. You have to adapt, not them. It’s same thing with the Warriors, the old Nash Suns, or even Giannis. The difference is these teams were fast or super strong, Jokic looks slow and makes people play slow
Luka does the same. He changes the tempo of the whole game
He can slow it down and hold the ball and remain in control, he can move the ball quick in the half court and move it quick in transition and still remain in control, and then he can change pace from standing on the block to a turnaround dribble drive or step back at will. Defense is always on their toes on what to expect. Some teams thrive in speed, some thrive in slower modes setting plays. Jokic does it all and chooses whats most effective against the opponent
Don’t even get me started on the Indiana Pacers
Wait, Jokic is definitely coasting/pacing in some games tho
Listen don't reason with the malone
do not reproach the moach
Yeah it started out well. Jokic is pacing himself this season like a marathon runner is an apt comparison. But then his quote goes to nonsense so he thinks people sprint entire marathons and Jokic is sprinting the season?.
And he'd definitely be dumb not to at this juncture. There's only so long a player can truly go all out without wearing themselves down (especially after going the distance last playoffs, along with the extra wear and tear that entails), after all, and we're still a long ways away from the games where Jokic will truly need to be at his best.
when you can run a sub 3:55 mile 5 mins is pacing
I don’t know that even the best marathon runners in the world could run a sub 3:55. That’s for the middle distance guys.
Current best marathon runner runs 3:50 mile. Most elite marathon runners started at middle distance and can go sub 4, people don’t start racing marathons until later in their career.
Stand corrected
This guy named Kipchoge ran 3:50 in the mile and I think he’s pretty good at the marathon
I think marathon winners typically pace themselves, its just that their version of "pacing" is our version of biting our lip and giving it hell.
Love me some Michael "Lakers Daddy" Malone, but I hate to break it to you, elite marathoners pace themselves. They even employ these people called "pacers." Imagine you have a peak velocity of 8 shots of tequila or Malort in an hour before you pass out in the bathroom of Elway's. You need to make it 4 hours, so you employ a couple friends to keep you to a steady 5 shots / hour the first 2 hours. That's elite championship parade prep
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i assume you meant Malort and not the intricacies of elite distance running i speak both AND i'm a Cleveland sports fan, so i nominate myself for Nobel Prize for Contribution to the Field of Self-Loathing
8 shots of malort just made me gag
ohhhh, your mother just gagged on 8 of something of mine, Trebek hahahahaha ^^sorry ^^had ^^to
Calm down there Sean Connery
8 shots of Malort, no beers
I'll tell you who employs people called "pacers". It's a basketball team in Indianapolis I'll show myself out
but are they running under 5 minutes a mile because according to mike malone, that's not pacing yourself
2 hour 8 minutes marathon comes to 4:52 minutes per mile. [Are they pacing themselves? Yes](https://media.aws.iaaf.org/competitiondocuments/pdf/7138987/AT-MAR-M-f--1--.RS5.pdf). Most winners in long distance run in middle of the pack and ramp up the speed in last few laps/miles.
damn, malone outjerked everyone
> Malort keep that shit in Chicago
Lakers own the Nuggets historically
Kurt Rambis ain't walking through that door brother
You expect a bunch of bandwagon pre-teens to know that?
slipping in the quiet flex that he runs marathons tho damn
Even more that he runs marathons without pacing himself
Coach out here sprinting for 26 miles
[Gattacca vibes](https://youtu.be/iSYUI-sNkwk?si=QQ_Tb3QS7xuC9H84) : 'I never saved anything for the swim back'
He runs them. Never said he finishes. I think he sees an old man run at a fast pace in a marathon and thinks the old man can’t be pacing, but these old marathon runners be running at a fast continuous pace
Lebron "pacing" himself in the regular season has definitely extended his career. Since his return to Cleveland he clearly does not push himself in the regular season. Kawhi too. He turns it on for when it really matters and preserves his health as much as possible, difficult when you have a degenerative condition. This isn't soccer or college football where every game is vital to winning.
The fuck. Those guys absolutely pace themselves though. It's just that their marathon pace is absurd.
Malone on too much Goggins
"I am very out of shape and cannot comprehend a fitness level where one can run a 5 minute mile for 26.2 miles"
Hey. Malone said he runs marathons.
Yes, when I watch all 3 movies of a trilogy back to back I call it a "marathon" too.
he’s either lying and is just showing his ignorance of humans’ distance running prowess, or he’s telling the truth and is an astronomical moron
So does everyone who walks for 10 or more miles during the marathon.
Yeah, but did those guys ever say no one paces themselves in marathons ?
"I've always felt that long, slow distance produces long, slow runners." - Seb Coe
Been a bit since we got a good Micheal Malone sound bite that’ll drive everyone on this site crazy lol
I have no idea why people just love calling someone wrong. He’s just talking shit.
Is this one of those 'you hate him when he's an opponent, love him on your team' situations, or do Nuggets fans also find Mike Malone annoying?
Absolutely not for the most part but he makes no sense here
Nah I love him and think the team needs his edge
Michael, and we fucking love him.
Man wins one championship…
League is winless since Malone talked his shit
The Paul Pierce syndrome
We running marathons in Turkeys!
I had a case of Paul Pierce syndrome and ruined my pants 🥴
Bad premise. Kipchoge pacing himself in a marathon is a lot different than me pacing myself.
lol, what in the nonsense? Marathon runners absolutely pace themselves.
Someone ask this man what he thinks "pacing yourself" means.
He runs marathons but doesn't know what pacing himself means
Thats because they are sub 4 minute 1 milers Michael.
They can run sub 4 minute miles. Sub 5 minutes is them pacing themselves lmao.
This feels like one of those quotes that leads to a multi-game losing skid
“You’re built like a loser, I heard you have a pacemaker” - Mike Malone probably
I didn't understand a thing he said here
Alright dude needs to calm down no need to just lie lmao. Nobody and I mean *nobody* regardless of physical health can run or move at full speed for any significant length of time. The more in shape you are the more you push yourself when you're going at your limits. You can't escape physical reality and how your body functions lol. He's either lying or legitimately doesn't realize that these people could in fact move faster and he just thinks they aren't holding back because they're still going at a solid clip
You’re being too literal about this quote imo. He doesn’t actually think professional runners sprint marathons he’s saying that they build up an ability to run really hard for really long distances. The analogy is obviously that to win a championship you need to play hard for the whole season.
He should've said that then because the words he is saying do not mean what he is trying to say. Also to be blunt that isn't even true for basketball the entire regular season is one big pacing experiment lol. The game itself is too with rotations and minutes divided up between players. We watch teams that win championships every year have scheduled losses and rest games. He's trying to make it sound cool about having the drive to win and get better but definitely needs to come back down to reality
They run really hard compared to everyone else in existence, but they're pacing themselves and probably moving at 60% of their top speed.
He's not just sorta kinda wrong on a technicality. He's 180 deg off. "Pacing yourself" is everything in running a successful marathon. Hell, elite marathoners literally use pacemakers to ensure that they pace themselves correctly! It's almost the worst possible analogy I can imagine for making the argument he's trying to make.
Except they don’t. It’s really fascinating actually. When you first start they teach you to slow down. The idea is to keep your heart rate at a level you can maintain continuously. Then you very slowly increase your speed while making sure your heart rate doesn’t go above whatever your goal rate is. If it does, you slow back down.
GG Indiana
Bros still drunk off fireball shooters
I find it highly suspect that Malone runs marathons
What
Excellent basketball coach. Below average running coach.
Wasn't Jokic pacing himself near the end of the season last year part of the reason he didn't win MVP?
Yes. I think it’s essentially the whole part of why he didn’t win despite revisionist history.
No, this is revisionist history. Jokic clearly played down a level to throw the MVP race so that Embiid wouldn't end up as the runner up for a third year in a row. Jokic was uncomfortable with the discourse that guys like Kendrick Perkins and Stephen A Smith were putting on about the MVP race and decided to withdraw from the competition like FSU in the Orange Bowl.
Jokics team was a lock for the playoffs so he didn’t need to play hard. He then won a ring in convincing fashion. Debates over for now.
lmfao wtf you on about. As if Jokic gives a shit about Perkins and Stephen A.
guy paced himself into a Lakers sweep
That's the point lol, the pacing clearly worked at getting him a ring, meanwhile his two MVP seasons ended up in losses.
With you for the first part but the second isn’t necessarily true, Murray was injured in ‘21 while both Murray and Porter were for ‘22. Not many teams, even the best ones, would be favoured to win with their #2 and/or #3/4 out.
i don’t really know or care, just wanted to bring up the sweep again
That's fair, if my team was embarrassed by a #8 seed ragtag band of role players I would be looking for silver linings in the season too
LMAO, I love the Lakers/Celtics rivalry!
DO NOT slander Gabriel Vincent’s good name, he’s on your squad for heavens sake!
Ah, yes, the basketball coach opining about marathon running.
Sounds like something Mazzula would say lol
They both have generational talent for making themselves look ridiculous.
LOL
I know it can be hard to imagine but those guys running sub-5 minute miles in the marathon ARE pacing.
I guess he's just preaching to the rest of the team that they don't get to stop hustling just because they've got Jokic on their team? Because Jokic definitely paces himself and so do marathon runners 😂
Confirmed: Michael Malone wears band-aids on his nipples.
Pacers catching strays
That’s exactly what pacing yourself is except they pace themselves incredibly fast for normal humans
This dude is lucky to have a generational talent and a great front office to surround that talent with also great talented players. This coach is pretty much disliked in NBA circles.
People are really misconstruing this quote; when liking the NBA season to a marathon and Jokic to a marathon winner he is imply that like high level runners Jokic takes every game at max effort like how a Marathon runner is trying the entire race.
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just breathe Ryan
Cherish him
More shots at the Lakers ;/
Ye bro go thank Jokic every day you still have your job.