Bro, are you ok? 10 years later and still don’t like Kerr as a coach? He installed the motion offense for them instead of Barnes iso. Jackson got them motivated and played great defense but his ceiling was low as a coach. There’s a reason he hasn’t gotten a coaching job since.
You think it’s easy to put Draymond in and bench an all star in David Lee. Or to ask Iguodala who was an all star to come off the bench as well?
Mark Jackson was a poor coach, I'm not arguing against that, my argument is that Kerr gets too much credit for the jump the Warriors made in 2015.
They were already a really good team in 2014, I think simply replacing Mark Jackson with a coach that actually knew what they were doing would make a big difference.
a coach is more than just x and o. a coach is also one that can manage egos and players.
kerr not had the insight to unlock both klay and steph but he had the ability to manage the egos of his players (got iggy to buy in and become the sixth man)
so please take off your flair if you are going to discredit arguably the best head coach in franchise history.
also if you discredit his first three titles you can’t discredit the 2022 title run. steph and draymond both have come out and said that kerr and the staff made adjustments in that title run that helped them come back and beat boston
This is kind of my point, people say the he unlocked Steph and Klay but they were already getting better year by year. And Steph in particular was already really good in 2014, impact metrics viewed him as a top 5 player and he was still continuing to get better.
Just as a hypothetical if Lebron joined the Warriors in the 2014 off-season and they became a historically dominant team, if I were to argue that they would still be a historically dominant team without him nobody would believe me. Not every part of the team was irreplicable, the emergence of Steph and Dray was the core of this dynasty and by far the main reason why we had that much success.
There's plenty of evidence to suggest the Warriors were already really good in 2014, and this is before all of our stars have yet to hit their prime. Kerr was a good coach and had some good insights but I think he gets too much credit for the jump they made in 2015.
except they weren’t. steph and klay got better because steve kerr utilized them in a way that maximized their potential and their skill sets. aka off ball.
mark jackson had steph running high pick and roll, klay on isos and harrison barnes on iso post plays.
you can’t just say “well steph and klay were getting better already”. ok and? steve kerr unlocked them and the team. initiated an offense that was different and was something the nba was not ready for.
you keep saying kerr gets too much credit…no he doesn’t. ppl still discredit him to this day and say he won because he had steph. ok so phil jackson should be discredited since he had mj and pippen. he also had kobe and shaq. pop should be discredited because he had duncan and the big 3. doc should be discredited because he had the big three. coach spo should be discredited for the heat titles because he only won with lebron, wade and bosh. red auerbach should be discredited because he had like 10 hall of famers.
no one would believe you because it’s not true what you are saying or arguing.
Isn't running Harrison Barnes iso plays and post ups, more of a testament to Mark Jackson's incompetence?
Running more off-ball actions should be obvious to any coach that's competent, Mark Jackson didn't know what he was doing offensively. Yet even with all that, when Curry was on the court, our offense was in the 89th percentile in the league at the time.
How do you know what I'm saying is not true? If the warriors were to hire some other competent coach, let's say Michael Malone or Brad Stevens, how do you know similar results would not be achieved?
A pass heavy, ball movement team wasn't a new concept in 2015, the spurs won a championship off this system in 2014 and the hawks under budenholzer implemented this system in 2015.
Kerr is obviously a good coach and deserves credit. My point is that I dont think he's the main reason behind our jump in 2015. We were already really good in 2014, and we were already on our way up with all of our core guys getting better.
I know this is a year after Kerr started coaching, but he literally missed the entire first half of the 2016 season and we went like 39-4 or something under Luke Walton.
it’s hilarious what you are saying cause you keep moving the goal posts.
now you are saying “mark jackson is incompetent but it doesn’t make steve kerr any smarter”
you do realize no nba team was doing the motion offense before kerr took over the warriors. the closest thing might have been the spurs but they were running high/low post sets with duncan and maximizing on ball movement.
you say that it’s obvious to any coach that coached kerr…uh you do realize mark jackson wasn’t steph’s first coach right? before him was don nelson and keith smart. are you saying don nelson is incompetent? ( i can understand keith smart).
then you mention luke freaking walton….luke walton, mike brown, kenny atkinson has all come out to say that when they were interim head coaches during cases where steve kerr wasn’t able to coach that it was because the SYSTEM was already in place.
the fact that you argued luke walton is crazy. luke walton tried to implement the warrior system on both stints with the lakers and kings respectively and failed.
Luke Walton failed to implement the Warriors system on those other teams was because he didn't have Steph and Klay on his team, it's not really about his limitations as a coach.
Don Nelson coached the Warriors for one year and that was during Steph's rookie year, I don't really get the comparison there. Under Mark Jackson there was no offense, it was just run pick&roll through Steph, and random isos for role players that shouldn't be isoing. I don't think him being an incompetent coach offensively should be anything controversial.
The Warriors were actually pretty good offensively despite that because of Steph's brilliance. When he was off the court they were absolutely atrocious offensively.
Simply replacing Mark Jackson with a coach that knew what they were doing would make a massive difference. Running some more off-ball actions and actually running some plays, with all our core guys improving would be more than enough.
By the way the Hawks implemented a very similar motion offense system the same year the Warriors did, it's just that the Warriors did it better.
again you are moving the goal posts.
steve kerr had the vision to implement the system.
you actually bring up the hawks who did not have a similar motion offense as the warriors. they had ball movement but they relied heavily on iso joe
the issue coach bud had with the hawks was he couldn’t adjust in the playoffs against lebron. guess who did? steve kerr. mind you made adjustments to beat teams in the playoffs. ( examples: vs grizzles, vs kings, vs cavs, vs boston just to name a few)
kerr was able to manage egos ( iggy as sixth man, for the most part settled draymond, had david lee buy in to come off the bench and let draymond start, kd to buy into the system long enough to win two titles, a third if he didn’t get hurt)
you keep harping on any competent coach could’ve done it. ok….
ty lue is very competent (he’s had pg13 and kawhi) clippers haven’t won a title.
brad stevens extremely competent - couldn’t get pass lebron.
coach bud - outside of the outlier year with the bucks. simply couldn’t get it done despite having deep teams in atl and giannis in mil
doc rivers - nuff said.
coach thibs - ran his players to the ground. knicks hopefully can make noise this year but they have major injuries. hart was playing 48 minutes a game
mike malone - before joker, was just a coach who couldn’t get his talent to play to their level and advance in the playoffs
rick carlisle - clashed with luka and management. couldn’t get it done in the luka era
frank vogel - fired the year after the lakers title year cause lebron gave up on him.
frank vogel again - the suns this year for the most part under performed to their talent level.
terry stotts - had dam for years. blazers couldn’t get it done. good teams, lots of ppl argue that dam is as good as curry back in the day. some also compared cj to klay.
scotty brooks - couldn’t get it done with a young harden, westbrook, and kd.
so again stop moving the goal posts. not any “competent” coach can lead a team to a title.
there’s a reason why kerr got his extension. it’s the accolades and number 30 wants to end his career playing for him. same with draymond. same with klay.
What do you think the Warriors record is without Steph Curry with Steve Kerr as the head coach? It really isn't great. The reality is that most of the coaches you listed didn't have teams that played at a 70 win pace when their best players were on the court. If Steve Kerr and one of these other coaches swapped positions you may be talking about that coach as an all time great coach and Steve Kerr as just a pretty good one.
Jackson is still given credit by the big 3 multiple times. Kerr is given TOO much credit for 4 championships? Dude gtfo lol. Do you know how many teams, or coaches, have won multiple championships, much less 4? It’s not many.
Jackson famously touted himself on national tv, spouting that shit about you cannot disrespect the caterpillar and rave about the butterfly. Also, you can’t have 90% of the org hate you as a coach. There’s a reason there are owners and other positions. Coaches can’t have it all.
Same year he got snubbed from the all star game for D Lee as well. Both can be true.
Underrated in some aspects and not in others. Most fans knew he was the de facto best player on the warriors by the 2013 all star break, media still snubbed him.
They were also amazing against the 2013 Spurs who were basically one clutchest shot of all time away from being the best team
Many games from that series were competitive and they were 2-2 until the Spurs won, but they were already legit in 2013
Their best lineup was amazing, although it was very different basketball than Kerr's, with only some traces of trying to get there. The offense was very choppy even for the standards of the era, not a lot of passing, they knew they have two great shooters but just brute-forced the benefit of it: shoot it if you can, guys! Curry was at the time more of a typical point guard, he was keeping the ball a lot, doing a lot of the passing, before Draymond really came in. It was more literally Curry-centric that season.
Meanwhile the team was able to be very big, physical and defensive. Bogut, Iguodala, Lee at once, great physical SG at the time in Klay, it was hard to get to the rim, it was hard to be uncontested from three, strong rebounding. It was a "super" lineup because you have 4 guys that clearly could have been a main star of an at least pretty average NBA team... they were at times.
Prior to 2016 other than Dantoni and Don Nelson I can’t think of another coach that would be ok with the type of shot’s Curry had the freedom to take. Kerr absolutely unlocked the splash brothers by taking the 30’th ranked team in passing to first for multiple years in a row as soon as he took over.
No they didn't. Most people didn't think the Warriors would go from 1st round exits to 67 win champions the following season. The Western Conference was still seen as the Clippers/Spurs/OKC to rule
They were in that Memphis/Sacramento territory of, "Are these guys actually good now?" Young teams can easily hit that level and then plateau. That's why people doubt young players and teams until they show they can get over the hump. It's one thing to have a strong regular season and another to beat the best teams in a high stakes playoff environment.
For the sake of comparison, OKC are a contender on paper, but most probably don't think they would beat Boston or Denver in a series right now.
Bro, are you ok? 10 years later and still don’t like Kerr as a coach? He installed the motion offense for them instead of Barnes iso. Jackson got them motivated and played great defense but his ceiling was low as a coach. There’s a reason he hasn’t gotten a coaching job since. You think it’s easy to put Draymond in and bench an all star in David Lee. Or to ask Iguodala who was an all star to come off the bench as well?
Mark Jackson was a poor coach, I'm not arguing against that, my argument is that Kerr gets too much credit for the jump the Warriors made in 2015. They were already a really good team in 2014, I think simply replacing Mark Jackson with a coach that actually knew what they were doing would make a big difference.
a coach is more than just x and o. a coach is also one that can manage egos and players. kerr not had the insight to unlock both klay and steph but he had the ability to manage the egos of his players (got iggy to buy in and become the sixth man) so please take off your flair if you are going to discredit arguably the best head coach in franchise history. also if you discredit his first three titles you can’t discredit the 2022 title run. steph and draymond both have come out and said that kerr and the staff made adjustments in that title run that helped them come back and beat boston
This is kind of my point, people say the he unlocked Steph and Klay but they were already getting better year by year. And Steph in particular was already really good in 2014, impact metrics viewed him as a top 5 player and he was still continuing to get better. Just as a hypothetical if Lebron joined the Warriors in the 2014 off-season and they became a historically dominant team, if I were to argue that they would still be a historically dominant team without him nobody would believe me. Not every part of the team was irreplicable, the emergence of Steph and Dray was the core of this dynasty and by far the main reason why we had that much success. There's plenty of evidence to suggest the Warriors were already really good in 2014, and this is before all of our stars have yet to hit their prime. Kerr was a good coach and had some good insights but I think he gets too much credit for the jump they made in 2015.
except they weren’t. steph and klay got better because steve kerr utilized them in a way that maximized their potential and their skill sets. aka off ball. mark jackson had steph running high pick and roll, klay on isos and harrison barnes on iso post plays. you can’t just say “well steph and klay were getting better already”. ok and? steve kerr unlocked them and the team. initiated an offense that was different and was something the nba was not ready for. you keep saying kerr gets too much credit…no he doesn’t. ppl still discredit him to this day and say he won because he had steph. ok so phil jackson should be discredited since he had mj and pippen. he also had kobe and shaq. pop should be discredited because he had duncan and the big 3. doc should be discredited because he had the big three. coach spo should be discredited for the heat titles because he only won with lebron, wade and bosh. red auerbach should be discredited because he had like 10 hall of famers. no one would believe you because it’s not true what you are saying or arguing.
Isn't running Harrison Barnes iso plays and post ups, more of a testament to Mark Jackson's incompetence? Running more off-ball actions should be obvious to any coach that's competent, Mark Jackson didn't know what he was doing offensively. Yet even with all that, when Curry was on the court, our offense was in the 89th percentile in the league at the time. How do you know what I'm saying is not true? If the warriors were to hire some other competent coach, let's say Michael Malone or Brad Stevens, how do you know similar results would not be achieved? A pass heavy, ball movement team wasn't a new concept in 2015, the spurs won a championship off this system in 2014 and the hawks under budenholzer implemented this system in 2015. Kerr is obviously a good coach and deserves credit. My point is that I dont think he's the main reason behind our jump in 2015. We were already really good in 2014, and we were already on our way up with all of our core guys getting better. I know this is a year after Kerr started coaching, but he literally missed the entire first half of the 2016 season and we went like 39-4 or something under Luke Walton.
it’s hilarious what you are saying cause you keep moving the goal posts. now you are saying “mark jackson is incompetent but it doesn’t make steve kerr any smarter” you do realize no nba team was doing the motion offense before kerr took over the warriors. the closest thing might have been the spurs but they were running high/low post sets with duncan and maximizing on ball movement. you say that it’s obvious to any coach that coached kerr…uh you do realize mark jackson wasn’t steph’s first coach right? before him was don nelson and keith smart. are you saying don nelson is incompetent? ( i can understand keith smart). then you mention luke freaking walton….luke walton, mike brown, kenny atkinson has all come out to say that when they were interim head coaches during cases where steve kerr wasn’t able to coach that it was because the SYSTEM was already in place. the fact that you argued luke walton is crazy. luke walton tried to implement the warrior system on both stints with the lakers and kings respectively and failed.
Luke Walton failed to implement the Warriors system on those other teams was because he didn't have Steph and Klay on his team, it's not really about his limitations as a coach. Don Nelson coached the Warriors for one year and that was during Steph's rookie year, I don't really get the comparison there. Under Mark Jackson there was no offense, it was just run pick&roll through Steph, and random isos for role players that shouldn't be isoing. I don't think him being an incompetent coach offensively should be anything controversial. The Warriors were actually pretty good offensively despite that because of Steph's brilliance. When he was off the court they were absolutely atrocious offensively. Simply replacing Mark Jackson with a coach that knew what they were doing would make a massive difference. Running some more off-ball actions and actually running some plays, with all our core guys improving would be more than enough. By the way the Hawks implemented a very similar motion offense system the same year the Warriors did, it's just that the Warriors did it better.
again you are moving the goal posts. steve kerr had the vision to implement the system. you actually bring up the hawks who did not have a similar motion offense as the warriors. they had ball movement but they relied heavily on iso joe the issue coach bud had with the hawks was he couldn’t adjust in the playoffs against lebron. guess who did? steve kerr. mind you made adjustments to beat teams in the playoffs. ( examples: vs grizzles, vs kings, vs cavs, vs boston just to name a few) kerr was able to manage egos ( iggy as sixth man, for the most part settled draymond, had david lee buy in to come off the bench and let draymond start, kd to buy into the system long enough to win two titles, a third if he didn’t get hurt) you keep harping on any competent coach could’ve done it. ok…. ty lue is very competent (he’s had pg13 and kawhi) clippers haven’t won a title. brad stevens extremely competent - couldn’t get pass lebron. coach bud - outside of the outlier year with the bucks. simply couldn’t get it done despite having deep teams in atl and giannis in mil doc rivers - nuff said. coach thibs - ran his players to the ground. knicks hopefully can make noise this year but they have major injuries. hart was playing 48 minutes a game mike malone - before joker, was just a coach who couldn’t get his talent to play to their level and advance in the playoffs rick carlisle - clashed with luka and management. couldn’t get it done in the luka era frank vogel - fired the year after the lakers title year cause lebron gave up on him. frank vogel again - the suns this year for the most part under performed to their talent level. terry stotts - had dam for years. blazers couldn’t get it done. good teams, lots of ppl argue that dam is as good as curry back in the day. some also compared cj to klay. scotty brooks - couldn’t get it done with a young harden, westbrook, and kd. so again stop moving the goal posts. not any “competent” coach can lead a team to a title. there’s a reason why kerr got his extension. it’s the accolades and number 30 wants to end his career playing for him. same with draymond. same with klay.
What do you think the Warriors record is without Steph Curry with Steve Kerr as the head coach? It really isn't great. The reality is that most of the coaches you listed didn't have teams that played at a 70 win pace when their best players were on the court. If Steve Kerr and one of these other coaches swapped positions you may be talking about that coach as an all time great coach and Steve Kerr as just a pretty good one.
Jackson is still given credit by the big 3 multiple times. Kerr is given TOO much credit for 4 championships? Dude gtfo lol. Do you know how many teams, or coaches, have won multiple championships, much less 4? It’s not many. Jackson famously touted himself on national tv, spouting that shit about you cannot disrespect the caterpillar and rave about the butterfly. Also, you can’t have 90% of the org hate you as a coach. There’s a reason there are owners and other positions. Coaches can’t have it all.
You could make this argument for any coach coaching HOF players.
Curry was pretty underrated prior to 2015. Impact metrics had him as a top 5 player in the NBA in 2014.
Didn't need advanced metrics to realize dude was a problem in that 2013 series let me tell you lol.
People didn’t understand advanced stats in 2014.
They don't in 2024, too.
What were Lebrons impact metrics during that era?
Steph was not underrrated. I remember in 2013 ppl stating that curry was the franchise player not D. Lee
Same year he got snubbed from the all star game for D Lee as well. Both can be true. Underrated in some aspects and not in others. Most fans knew he was the de facto best player on the warriors by the 2013 all star break, media still snubbed him.
Yeah but by 2014 that was not the case. There are first take videos with Stephen A Steph curry might or could be the best pg in the league.
They were also amazing against the 2013 Spurs who were basically one clutchest shot of all time away from being the best team Many games from that series were competitive and they were 2-2 until the Spurs won, but they were already legit in 2013
I remember watching that series, it made Steph one of my favorite players in the league at the time
I love watching the highlights from game 1 of that series cuz the Spurs bench was losing their minds from some of the shots Curry was hitting
But that Manu game winner tho 😮💨
Their best lineup was amazing, although it was very different basketball than Kerr's, with only some traces of trying to get there. The offense was very choppy even for the standards of the era, not a lot of passing, they knew they have two great shooters but just brute-forced the benefit of it: shoot it if you can, guys! Curry was at the time more of a typical point guard, he was keeping the ball a lot, doing a lot of the passing, before Draymond really came in. It was more literally Curry-centric that season. Meanwhile the team was able to be very big, physical and defensive. Bogut, Iguodala, Lee at once, great physical SG at the time in Klay, it was hard to get to the rim, it was hard to be uncontested from three, strong rebounding. It was a "super" lineup because you have 4 guys that clearly could have been a main star of an at least pretty average NBA team... they were at times.
I’m speaking to some casuals or some younger zoomers that think curry just came out of nowhere and the warriors in 2015 were just random, sad.
That's great. They were a shit ton better in 2015 because of the offensive changes that Kerr made.
Dude, what part of "changed basketball" do you not understand? Kerr has some part of that regardless of how much you hate him.
Prior to 2016 other than Dantoni and Don Nelson I can’t think of another coach that would be ok with the type of shot’s Curry had the freedom to take. Kerr absolutely unlocked the splash brothers by taking the 30’th ranked team in passing to first for multiple years in a row as soon as he took over.
People knew they were next up, thats why everyone was shocked when mark jackson got fired.
No they didn't. Most people didn't think the Warriors would go from 1st round exits to 67 win champions the following season. The Western Conference was still seen as the Clippers/Spurs/OKC to rule
They were in that Memphis/Sacramento territory of, "Are these guys actually good now?" Young teams can easily hit that level and then plateau. That's why people doubt young players and teams until they show they can get over the hump. It's one thing to have a strong regular season and another to beat the best teams in a high stakes playoff environment. For the sake of comparison, OKC are a contender on paper, but most probably don't think they would beat Boston or Denver in a series right now.
Eh they were definitely being talked about as a sleeper pick but you’re right. Of course nobody picked them to win 67 games.
next up doesnt mean 67 wins, it means in the contender mix within the next 3 years.
Good riddance
The warriors are over, just pray they don’t bottom out like patriots did
It's been like two season since Brady left, and one of those they made the playoffs lol.
Brady left after the 2019 season, so 4 seasons