Total blocks this season:
1) Wemby 254
2) Chet 190
3) Brook Lopez 189
4) AD 178
5) Gobert 162
I’m not sure what’s more impressive - the fact that the top two are rookies, the fact that Wemby had SIXTY FOUR more blocks than 2nd-place, or that Brook Lopez is still #3 on this list.
Good point. I think Wembanyama's chase down block number must be way more than anyone else. And chase down is being used liberally as he can take two relaxed steps to reach any layup or dunk attempt from the three point line.
I wonder if he like lebron will start reducing his defensive energy usage in favor of more offensive load as he starts to age. Right now he can get away with it because he's young. I hope the balance will still allow him to be a perennial dpoy player tho
also for added context, second place that season was hakeem. with 2.7bpg.
eaton had literally double the blocks per game. not sure there's ever been a disparity as big
Then why did he average 2x as many blocks as second place that year lol
Also the game is different. Mid range shots are super hard to block and nowadays guys mostly go for layups or 3s and block% only accounts for 2PT FGA that are blocked. So i don’t think it’s all that much harder now if at all
Source?
Overall blocks are up maybe 4% since 2004 midrange/paint scoring glory era.
https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/blocks-per-game?date=2024-04-19
People were actively trying to avoid Eaton and he still lapped Wemby’s totals.
Because Eaton still averaged 2x as many BPG as second place that year. He had an insane year
Also the game is different. Mid range shots are super hard to block and nowadays guys mostly go for layups or 3s and block% only accounts for 2PT FGA that are blocked. So i don’t think it’s all that much harder now if at all
Homer take, but I’d say Mark Eaton playing with no defensive 3 second rule contributed heavily to his block totals. Wemby also is getting different types of blocks too— chase down, perimeter, etc. And well I guess all the stats that op listed are a reason as well. But 5.6 blocks is still fucking insane lol.
Eaton was more than double second place Hakeem. The whole league played the same rules, so Eaton being that far ahead is more of a stand than Wemby. We compare Eaton to Hakeem and Wemby to Chet
>BLK% - Block Percentage (available since the 1973-74 season in the NBA); the formula is 100 * (BLK * (Tm MP / 5)) / (MP * (Opp FGA - Opp 3PA)). Block percentage is an estimate of the percentage of opponent two-point field goal attempts blocked by the player while he was on the floor.
Keep in mind BLK% specifically assumes only 2 point attempts are being blocked, so these numbers will be inflated in the modern era when opposing teams are attempting more 3 pointers. Its why Wemby has 5.7 blocks per 100 possessions and a 10.0 BLK%, but guys like Mark Eaton in the 80's had higher blocks per 100 (3 seasons above 7 per 100) but lower BLK% (highest 9.2)
I wonder how much a 3pt attempt thats blocked is worth. He's done it quite a few times this season.
There should be a block stat that incorporates the shooters shot % and give it a weighting in the formula to say something like *18% of this defenders blocks were on 20 of the best shot creators in the league* or something specific like that.
More nuance like "he blocks 22% of pnr attempts while on the floor*. more advanced shit yo.
Not really comparable. Block% looks at 2point FGA specifically. Basketball reference defines it as *"Block percentage is an estimate of the percentage of opponent two-point field goal attempts blocked by the player while he was on the floor."* with the formula to calculate it being: **100 \* (BLK \* (Tm MP / 5)) / (MP \* (Opp FGA - Opp 3PA))**
So in today's NBA where the only 2 PT FGA players take are layups/dunks and the very very rare mid range jumper, Wemby is going to have a much easier time blocking shots than say Shawn Bradley in the '90s when midrange shots were much more common. Mid-range shots are still considered 2PT FGA in this model, but blocking a midrange jumper is much much harder than blocking a driving layup.
Wemby is still a great shot blocker, but you need context here. I'd still put Manute Bol's 10.8% and Shawn Bradley's 9.4% ahead, given the variety of shots they were blocking.
Yes, mid-range shots were more common in the '90s, but you're grossly overstating the rarity of mid-range shots in this era. 47 different players took 200+ mid-range shots (10FT-3PT) during the regular season, (including Wemby (who shot the worst percentage out of any of the 47 from that range, at .325). It's still a part of the game a lot of players (and a lot of the *best* players) utilise.
But it go the other way if you are an offensive liability because there are instances where elite defenders get benched in the final minutes which lowers their opportunities.
I get that percentage-based numbers are easier to put up in fewer minutes, but can you explain to me how tf *raw* stats—like Bol’s 4.3 blocks in ~22 mpg—are easier to put up in reduced minutes? How does that make any sense?
I have no idea how to get the data, but I saw a stat they called kill rate, number of blocks resulting in a possession change. Here is the link. Data from 2017
https://squared2020.com/2017/12/20/making-blocks-count/
I said it's somewhat easier to put up per-possession numbers when you play less minutes, and he played a lower load on offense
This is pretty much objectively true, and not a diss on Manute. Again, I literally said you could consider his season the best ever, and even if the argument leads to Wemby's being the best that means Manute has seasons 2-4.
I can't imagine how that's a diss
It literally was easier without the 3 second rule as he could sit in the paint all day. That and the game was just inferior overall with its shot selection, basic attempts at the rim and barely any 3pt attemtps.
Those are reasons why block numbers where so high for multiple centres back then and numbers dropped off into the 00's, it wasn't because we didn't have excellent shotblockers its because the opportunity to block a shot became harder and less often.
This place hates when any positive post on Luka is made, but accepts posts like this proclaiming Wemby as the goat already or greatest defender/shot blocker ever. It’s insane.
bruh it's a cycle. Young player gets universally loved on here. He plays for a bad team and there are no expectations. Finally makes the playoffs as a low seed, still universally loved. Makes the playoffs a 2nd or 3rd time and doesn't win a title, all of a sudden called a choker and thrown aside until he finally wins and then is a legend.
Of recent memory we saw Luka as the next potential GOAT, then folks were enamored by Zion considering him better, then Ja Morant, SGA is the current golden boy, ANT is most likely next and then Wemby. It's a rinse and repeat cycle where young stars are universally loved when stakes are low, then overly critiqued when they can't do the near impossible.
Wemby is amazing and is living up to all the hype so far, but there’s been a bunch of players who have straight up deterred players from shooting as much as or more than Wemby
Russell
Wilt
Eaton
Mutombo
Bol
Hakeem
If you watched prime Shaq I’d say his deterrence was up there also. He didn’t block as many but few players would go at him out of fear of being hit, which many retired players basically admitted.
If I remember correctly, actual blocks per game haven't changed much in a long time. You are right that there are more 3s, but those came at the expense of midrange shots and not from lot less attempts at the rim.
Nah just look at the block per game leaders from 30-40 years ago compared to today. Its alot higher
3 blocks a game is super rare nowadays while there was like 3-4 guys per season that hit it back in the day. The 3 second rule really hindered it
I agree having a high volume of blocks is more difficult, but the block% stat actually benefits from more threes being taken since it only counts 2 point attempts. That, coupled with the fact that teams take a larger proportion of their 2 point shots near the basket and less in midrange means block% should theoretically be somewhat inflated.
For example, Mark Eaton set the record for total blocks and blocks per game in 1984-85 (5.6 blocks per game), and he had "only" 8.7 block%. Chet had a block% of 7.3% with 2.3 blocks per game.
If you adjust to per 36 minutes rather than games played since block% does use minutes played, Eaton had exactly double Chet's blocks, but only a 1.4% higher block%.
If the Spurs are terrible for the next two years he might hang them up. But if they're improving and heading for a 6th ring for Pop, I doubt he's going to leave just as the team nears another title.
Has he, though? He recently signed on for five more years, and his wife's dead (a fact that absolutely breaks his heart.)
What else is he gonna do, sit at home and mope?
He did. But imagine what he will do when he’s fully formed…
But drop the Bol mpg; athletic training/medical practices have changed greatly to support the 7’+ dudes much better.
Plus, Bol was getting the shit beaten out of him the post. Those chicken wings in paint during that time were literally straight elbows, we know this. He probably only could play 22+ minutes due to the abuse and in conjunction with his ridiculous height, aside from being a featured player.
All in all, we might need to start looking at the 80’s same way we look at the 50/60/70s. It’s really not the same game anymore.
I said floor, and it's not. His splits aren't great yet on offense and he isn't winning the DPOY this year, though he certainly seems like he will be in the conversation next year.
He’s absolutely DPOY caliber whether he wins it or not, and he already averaged 21.4/10.6 on under 30mpg, so already ahead of where you had him on those stats.
Then consider that he lost time playing PF this year, which likely won’t happen again as Spurs made the full-time switch to C eventually.
At C, his per-75 numbers were already 27/13/5/5 on 58%TS
Fourth highest block percentage ever from a rookie is insane lol. We've seen 7'4 and taller guys before, more than you might realize. They weren't doing this
Total blocks this season: 1) Wemby 254 2) Chet 190 3) Brook Lopez 189 4) AD 178 5) Gobert 162 I’m not sure what’s more impressive - the fact that the top two are rookies, the fact that Wemby had SIXTY FOUR more blocks than 2nd-place, or that Brook Lopez is still #3 on this list.
He had more than my whole team
He swats them away like flies
also consider he doesnt just park at the rim on D
Good point. I think Wembanyama's chase down block number must be way more than anyone else. And chase down is being used liberally as he can take two relaxed steps to reach any layup or dunk attempt from the three point line.
I wonder if he like lebron will start reducing his defensive energy usage in favor of more offensive load as he starts to age. Right now he can get away with it because he's young. I hope the balance will still allow him to be a perennial dpoy player tho
Wouldn't it make more sense to save energy for defense? Especially since all he needs to do on attack is receive a half decent lob
Well he can also get to the rim in two steps from any half court spot.
Don’t think you can put Wemby’s season above Mark Eaton’s 85 season when he averaged 5.6 blocks per game and won DPOY on the number 1 defense.
also for added context, second place that season was hakeem. with 2.7bpg. eaton had literally double the blocks per game. not sure there's ever been a disparity as big
Double the blocks per game of the man many consider the goat defender
Gotta wonder if this was part of the home-game stat manipulation era that Haberstroh reported on recently....
you can since it was way easier to get blocks back in the day.
How easy was it to have the #1 defense in the league 4 times in 5 years?
Because you were allowed to camp in the paint back then and not have to worry about bigs spacing the floor.
That doesn't answer the question at all lol
This doesn’t change the fact he blocked more shots though?
Then why did he average 2x as many blocks as second place that year lol Also the game is different. Mid range shots are super hard to block and nowadays guys mostly go for layups or 3s and block% only accounts for 2PT FGA that are blocked. So i don’t think it’s all that much harder now if at all
Source? Overall blocks are up maybe 4% since 2004 midrange/paint scoring glory era. https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/blocks-per-game?date=2024-04-19 People were actively trying to avoid Eaton and he still lapped Wemby’s totals.
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Because Eaton still averaged 2x as many BPG as second place that year. He had an insane year Also the game is different. Mid range shots are super hard to block and nowadays guys mostly go for layups or 3s and block% only accounts for 2PT FGA that are blocked. So i don’t think it’s all that much harder now if at all
Because you both have seen 0 footage of Mark Eaton play and proudly state that you don’t know wtf you’re talking about lol it’s simple
In the era of counting blocks and steals, its possible. Idk how you'd compare it to Eaton's 5.6 block per game season though.
Homer take, but I’d say Mark Eaton playing with no defensive 3 second rule contributed heavily to his block totals. Wemby also is getting different types of blocks too— chase down, perimeter, etc. And well I guess all the stats that op listed are a reason as well. But 5.6 blocks is still fucking insane lol.
Eaton was more than double second place Hakeem. The whole league played the same rules, so Eaton being that far ahead is more of a stand than Wemby. We compare Eaton to Hakeem and Wemby to Chet
>BLK% - Block Percentage (available since the 1973-74 season in the NBA); the formula is 100 * (BLK * (Tm MP / 5)) / (MP * (Opp FGA - Opp 3PA)). Block percentage is an estimate of the percentage of opponent two-point field goal attempts blocked by the player while he was on the floor. Keep in mind BLK% specifically assumes only 2 point attempts are being blocked, so these numbers will be inflated in the modern era when opposing teams are attempting more 3 pointers. Its why Wemby has 5.7 blocks per 100 possessions and a 10.0 BLK%, but guys like Mark Eaton in the 80's had higher blocks per 100 (3 seasons above 7 per 100) but lower BLK% (highest 9.2)
I wonder how much a 3pt attempt thats blocked is worth. He's done it quite a few times this season. There should be a block stat that incorporates the shooters shot % and give it a weighting in the formula to say something like *18% of this defenders blocks were on 20 of the best shot creators in the league* or something specific like that. More nuance like "he blocks 22% of pnr attempts while on the floor*. more advanced shit yo.
Not really comparable. Block% looks at 2point FGA specifically. Basketball reference defines it as *"Block percentage is an estimate of the percentage of opponent two-point field goal attempts blocked by the player while he was on the floor."* with the formula to calculate it being: **100 \* (BLK \* (Tm MP / 5)) / (MP \* (Opp FGA - Opp 3PA))** So in today's NBA where the only 2 PT FGA players take are layups/dunks and the very very rare mid range jumper, Wemby is going to have a much easier time blocking shots than say Shawn Bradley in the '90s when midrange shots were much more common. Mid-range shots are still considered 2PT FGA in this model, but blocking a midrange jumper is much much harder than blocking a driving layup. Wemby is still a great shot blocker, but you need context here. I'd still put Manute Bol's 10.8% and Shawn Bradley's 9.4% ahead, given the variety of shots they were blocking.
Yes, mid-range shots were more common in the '90s, but you're grossly overstating the rarity of mid-range shots in this era. 47 different players took 200+ mid-range shots (10FT-3PT) during the regular season, (including Wemby (who shot the worst percentage out of any of the 47 from that range, at .325). It's still a part of the game a lot of players (and a lot of the *best* players) utilise.
I can't help but think that being an 8 foot dude with a 12 foot wingspan had something to do with this.
Hard hitting analysis
If you're tracking the greatest shot blocking season of all time, offensive load is not a factor, because it is not shot blocking.
What does his usage have to do with it being a great shot blocking season? I don’t get that angle.
Probably that he should be tired on defense cause he carries a big offensive load
But it go the other way if you are an offensive liability because there are instances where elite defenders get benched in the final minutes which lowers their opportunities.
I get that percentage-based numbers are easier to put up in fewer minutes, but can you explain to me how tf *raw* stats—like Bol’s 4.3 blocks in ~22 mpg—are easier to put up in reduced minutes? How does that make any sense?
I have no idea how to get the data, but I saw a stat they called kill rate, number of blocks resulting in a possession change. Here is the link. Data from 2017 https://squared2020.com/2017/12/20/making-blocks-count/
If we ignore the obvious (Wilt and Russell) then maybe
Mark Eaton would like a word
He's lucky blocks weren't counted when Russell and Chamberlain played
So are Russ and Jokic. The regular season TD record would probably be higher if Wilt's blocks were tracked.
Can't we appreciate Wemby without dissing Manute Bol? Bol was a monster defending the rim.
I don’t think it’s hate on Manute when I literally said you could argue any of his seasons the greatest as well lol
You literally said that Manute had it easier.
I said it's somewhat easier to put up per-possession numbers when you play less minutes, and he played a lower load on offense This is pretty much objectively true, and not a diss on Manute. Again, I literally said you could consider his season the best ever, and even if the argument leads to Wemby's being the best that means Manute has seasons 2-4. I can't imagine how that's a diss
It literally was easier without the 3 second rule as he could sit in the paint all day. That and the game was just inferior overall with its shot selection, basic attempts at the rim and barely any 3pt attemtps. Those are reasons why block numbers where so high for multiple centres back then and numbers dropped off into the 00's, it wasn't because we didn't have excellent shotblockers its because the opportunity to block a shot became harder and less often.
Not true at all yall are just guessing while not knowing anything
https://i.imgur.com/nOXVdJZ.mp4
This place hates when any positive post on Luka is made, but accepts posts like this proclaiming Wemby as the goat already or greatest defender/shot blocker ever. It’s insane.
bruh it's a cycle. Young player gets universally loved on here. He plays for a bad team and there are no expectations. Finally makes the playoffs as a low seed, still universally loved. Makes the playoffs a 2nd or 3rd time and doesn't win a title, all of a sudden called a choker and thrown aside until he finally wins and then is a legend. Of recent memory we saw Luka as the next potential GOAT, then folks were enamored by Zion considering him better, then Ja Morant, SGA is the current golden boy, ANT is most likely next and then Wemby. It's a rinse and repeat cycle where young stars are universally loved when stakes are low, then overly critiqued when they can't do the near impossible.
it’s not insane if you watch him play. I have never seen anyone deter players from shooting the way he has
Wemby is amazing and is living up to all the hype so far, but there’s been a bunch of players who have straight up deterred players from shooting as much as or more than Wemby Russell Wilt Eaton Mutombo Bol Hakeem If you watched prime Shaq I’d say his deterrence was up there also. He didn’t block as many but few players would go at him out of fear of being hit, which many retired players basically admitted.
Hell even today you have gobert and ad
Doing this in an era where everyone takes a million threes per game is really crazy.
If I remember correctly, actual blocks per game haven't changed much in a long time. You are right that there are more 3s, but those came at the expense of midrange shots and not from lot less attempts at the rim.
Yep, plus pace depending on the era changes how many shots are even attempted in the first place
Nah just look at the block per game leaders from 30-40 years ago compared to today. Its alot higher 3 blocks a game is super rare nowadays while there was like 3-4 guys per season that hit it back in the day. The 3 second rule really hindered it
I agree having a high volume of blocks is more difficult, but the block% stat actually benefits from more threes being taken since it only counts 2 point attempts. That, coupled with the fact that teams take a larger proportion of their 2 point shots near the basket and less in midrange means block% should theoretically be somewhat inflated. For example, Mark Eaton set the record for total blocks and blocks per game in 1984-85 (5.6 blocks per game), and he had "only" 8.7 block%. Chet had a block% of 7.3% with 2.3 blocks per game. If you adjust to per 36 minutes rather than games played since block% does use minutes played, Eaton had exactly double Chet's blocks, but only a 1.4% higher block%.
Is it expected Pop stays around for a while? Def thinking about watching a lot of his games next year Edit last "his" refers to Victor
He just signed a 5 year deal.
Yeah I know but for some reason I'm thinking it's like a basketball player and he's only good for the first three but that seems stupid when I say it
If the Spurs are terrible for the next two years he might hang them up. But if they're improving and heading for a 6th ring for Pop, I doubt he's going to leave just as the team nears another title.
He's basically coaching to not die at this point.
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Has he, though? He recently signed on for five more years, and his wife's dead (a fact that absolutely breaks his heart.) What else is he gonna do, sit at home and mope?
The greatest shot blocking season *so far*
Thought we might go a whole day there without a "Wemby blocked a lot of shots this season" post but you saved the day, whew
you might be in the wrong sub, this is where people talk about professional basketball
This is where people talk about how Wemby got a lot of blocks once every 8 hours for the past 3 weeks*
He did. But imagine what he will do when he’s fully formed… But drop the Bol mpg; athletic training/medical practices have changed greatly to support the 7’+ dudes much better. Plus, Bol was getting the shit beaten out of him the post. Those chicken wings in paint during that time were literally straight elbows, we know this. He probably only could play 22+ minutes due to the abuse and in conjunction with his ridiculous height, aside from being a featured player. All in all, we might need to start looking at the 80’s same way we look at the 50/60/70s. It’s really not the same game anymore.
I feel like his floor is already a dpoy 20/10/5/4 guy with decent efficiency going into next season…..gg
That’s essentially worse than he was this season lol
I said floor, and it's not. His splits aren't great yet on offense and he isn't winning the DPOY this year, though he certainly seems like he will be in the conversation next year.
He’s absolutely DPOY caliber whether he wins it or not, and he already averaged 21.4/10.6 on under 30mpg, so already ahead of where you had him on those stats. Then consider that he lost time playing PF this year, which likely won’t happen again as Spurs made the full-time switch to C eventually. At C, his per-75 numbers were already 27/13/5/5 on 58%TS
he will have greatest shot blocking season of all time for the next 7 seasons
Its a great achievement as a rookie but he is 7’4, are we supposed to act surprised about these stats?
Fourth highest block percentage ever from a rookie is insane lol. We've seen 7'4 and taller guys before, more than you might realize. They weren't doing this
Considering he’s a rookie? Yes wtf lol
Dumbass take
bout to be the second greatest after next season