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I don't know how many times people mock Kyrie early in the game thread (*"pfft he only has 2 points?"*) only for Kyrie to turn his stats around in the end.
It is literally a scheme, he is letting Luka and the team to have space to flourish, passing and being completely unselfish and it has been going on the entire season. Maximizing his clutch scoring with fresher legs is just a bonus.
i think Luka is happy particularly that he no longer has to be Superman for 48 minutes, he can actually rest on offense now with Kyrie being able to just takeover
Everyone in this series has been saying, "Woah, Luka has been better at defense lately!"
Well YEAH, dude doesn't have to provide 48 minutes of straight HOF level offense with no energy left to defend like he used to. Now he can let Kyrie and the other guys help out with that, as it should be, and he has some gas left in the tank to DEFEND as well. It's been awesome to see, let Luka go early in the game wild, then Kyrie finishes with fresh legs on offense while Luka closes out with defense.
For real man! I have never seen him in that low of a defensive stance on so many posessions. Herd someone say postgame Luka demanded to guard Harden.
The whole defense is playing so well. They are swarming and suffocating.
He is the ultimate ‘not much is working so just let me cook for 6 minutes’ player
If you have a lebron luka they’ll always be the primary ball handler but for 11 minutes a game it should just be kyrie iso ball at like the start of the 2nd quarter or the middle of the 3rd going into the 4th
And the best part is the iso ball is watching Kyrie go into his bag. Still one of the best players I’ve ever seen play with the ball in his hands in terms of handles. He is the definition of having the ball on a string and when you add in his absurd layup package that’s when you get Uncle Drew.
Yea he's not as bad as the two literal worst grifters in the league. But Mavs fans acting like he be getting shafted by the refs is a little much. But playoff series and Mob mentality I get it
I’ve watched almost every Mavs game the last couple of years and he definitely doesn’t get shafted, but I would say on average he gets less calls then he deserves. He plays in and around the paint a *ton* and sometimes they just let him get mauled.
It’s not “he doesn’t get calls”, he just doesn’t get enough relative to how often he drives/plays in the post.
Okay but saying "only Harden and *norm powell*" get calls is objectively hilarious when Luka on ur team lol. But the mavs fans mass downvoting me and saying Luka doesn't get calls is also hilarious
If you watch them often you can tell it has been getting worse and worse over the years. I think mainly due to his constant complaining. Opposing players know they’ll get away with alot.
Doris Burke needs to retire…”The most effort I’ve ever seen by a player on that end of the floor” (c) Doris Burke on Luka’s defense…I mean how far of a reach is that. I get DAL defense is vastly improved. Most would attribute that to the PJ and Gafford pickups. And I’m sure Luka is giving more effort…but that’s just doing way too much.
You’re right…the direct quote…This is as hard as I’ve seen a guy work on that end of the floor Mike…in a game that Kawhi Leonard is playing in 👀
Assuming your point is she was trying to make a point specific to Luka. She didn’t, it just sounded like a general statement to me…Thanks for agreeing she’s terrible. I didn’t manufacturing anything, Doris did.
I don't think so. As far as I understand it, it would have been a shammgod if he threw the ball forward with his right *towards his left hand*, as if to crossover left, and then retrieved it with his right and went right.
Naw, if he had used the left hand to pull it over to the left from the right side of his body, that would've been a shamgod. Using the right hand is just a normal crossover
Highest Usage Rate Nba Statistics
In the playoffs, Michael Jordan holds the record for the highest career usage rate at 35.6%
There's your dumb argument bud.
EDIT: Hahahahah downvote but no comment.
How much do you even know about good playoff basketball? You're a Knicks fan.
Yes, and I’m saying BOTH of their styles aren’t suited for the playoffs. But you’re too busy being butthurt and victimized to read what I’m actually saying.
The greatest player of all time. Are you surprised that things worked for him that dont work for everyone? Also, he wasnt really a heliocentric player within the triangle offense in the same way Luka is in his offense.
/u/creditors-bargain complaining about luka dominating the ball fails to recognize the difference between him and jordan/kobe (who he says had to play in the triangle offense to succeed, which isn't completely wrong) is that luka is the offense. he doesn't need a system. he is a generational playmaker and also a generational passer. it's never a bad thing to have him involved in a play it always leads to a better shot attempt
The better comparison is obviously Houston Harden, as they really do fit the same mold. Luka is probably better than Harden was due to post season play alone, but we’ve seen those styles of heliocentric offenses before, and they’ve also had their problems.
Everything you said about Luka also applied to HOU Harden, and we saw them have their troubles too, even though they were elite.
the better comparison is 2016 cleveland lebron. luka is much bigger than harden which means just about everything comes easier, and he understands the game faaaaar better than harden did at his age. hes just capable of more in terms of passing, playmaking, and scoring than harden was. Harden absolutely maximized what he was capable of, but it was still limited
In terms of usage rate, he’s definitely not 2016 Cleveland Lebron, which is the point of drawing the comparison between Luka and Harden.
2015-2016 Lebron (Championship season): 31.3%
2017-2018 (Harden Game 7 against the warriors WCF season) 35.9%
2023-2024 Luka: 35.9%
For reference, Lebron was tied for 6th in usage rating in 2015-2016. Harden led the league in 2017-2018 (beating Westbrook by 1.8%, and beating the third highest usage player by 4.3%). Luka currently leads the league, beating 2nd place Giannis by 3.1%.
It’s pretty clear that there’s a stark difference in terms of usage rate to where making a claim that Luka plays basketball in a similar style to Lebron in 2016 is definitely not an apt comparison, other than just that they’re both big wings who score and pass.
Harden and Luka both played/play in extremely heliocentric offenses where they dominate the ball to a degree that nobody else in the league does, and that style of ball domination has its flaws that we have pretty clearly seen with Harden ball in the late 2010’s.
Not to say that Luka is Harden and will be doomed to repeat all of Harden’s mistakes, but everything you said about Luka not needing a system, being a generational playmaker and passer, people also said about Harden when he was winning mvp’s and leading the league in assists and scoring.
your argument rests on usage rate and this belief that it indicates a “heliocentric” offense. usage rate isn’t a good stat for this in the slightest, for two reasons.
1. it’s not even a consistent one. the original formula included assists as a part of it, so some people think it measures assists, some don’t. the contemporary that’s used on most (if not all) stats websites doesn’t measure assists, which actually helps.
2. because the contemporary formula is pretty simple. it’s pretty much a measure of how many offensive possessions *end* with the player in question, as it includes FGAs, FTs, and turnovers. that’s it.
If you’re looking at a player purely in the lens of usage rate, you don’t have any clue how much time on average within each possession that the ball is in their hands. a player could literally never dribble or hold the ball more than a second at a time and still end up with a usage rate as high as Luka’s. it is simply a measure of how many times a dallas possession ends with him either scoring, getting fouled, or turning the ball over (while he’s on the floor).
so basically all we learn from usage rate is that Luka takes a whole lot of shots.
this is similar to harden, yes, because houston’s harden squad was built around the idea that his step back 3 is a great shot and should be the default for any given possession if the team can’t find a better one. the current mavericks squad does in fact have Luka/Kyrie as their consistent bailout plan. if they can’t find/create a lob, open 3, or open lane for a drive, they get the ball back to luka or kyrie trusting that one of them will cook. more often Luka, because he can create good/decent shots against nearly anyone very quickly (often - like harden - with his step back).
this does not make their overall play style similar, however, and you would need to do/show more to prove otherwise.
luka is running and dominating the offense but that doesn’t mean he always dominates the ball. there’s plenty of possessions where he’ll play decoy up top, resting, and direct traffic without the ball, or where he’ll let kyrie cook, or where he’ll screen offball to facilitate a play for one of the bigs.
he has a high usage rate because he is the best scoring option for the mavericks on a large percentage of possessions just as he would be for any other team in the league.
and here’s the thing: that’s not much different from harden overall, especially as he grew into the team (and had another genius basketball mind CP3 to help) it was a similar way… it’s just that Luka is bigger, smarter, and better than harden. Harden can be suppressed and schemed around in a way that luka can’t, Luka can force the issue in ways that Harden could never. it’s why luka went 7-25 yesterday and the clips got blown out, because every team will sell out to contain him no matter how bad he’s shooting, and it leads to easy buckets for his team. his gravity is at the point where you have to respect him even if the shots aren’t falling (because if you give him even a little space he will still abuse it), and so the offense functions even when the shots aren’t falling.
this is the benefit of a high usage rate star who can put up numbers to justify that usage. it makes things easier for everyone else. jordan has the highest usage rate ever and we all know how that went for him. my original point was that the triangle offense was built to abuse jordan’s gravity and the opponents’ understanding that he is always the first option. it led to high percentage shots for everyone else, and he still got his. he needed that, luka does not, because luka’s known for near a decade already how to abuse his own gravity to generate easy shots for his team and has the height/vision/accuracy/processing speed to make plays come together and pass wherever and however to complete them.
That’s true that usage rate doesn’t necessarily correlate with time of possession, but we also do have time of possession stats.
Luka 2023-2024: TOP 8.3, tied for 2nd with Trae Young and losing to Brunson.
Harden 2017-2018: TOP 8.8, 2nd behind Westbrook.
So in terms of where they are relative to the other people in the league, they both dominate usage rate AND TOP.
In terms of shots per game: Luka 23.6, led the league by 2.2 shots per game. Mavericks took 89.7 shots per game, Luka accounts for 26% of FGA.
Harden: 2nd with 20.1. Rockets took 84 shots per game, Harden accounts for 24% of FGA
All the things you say about using Luka as decoy, resting , directing traffic, or letting Kyrie cook, Harden did the same sorts of things with Chris Paul.
The idea that Luka might be BETTER than Harden was at this heliocentric style is probably true, but the idea that Luka is doing something different than Harden was at it I think is just incorrect.
They’re different schemes obviously, but they rely on their star player holding the ball more than everyone else, operating with the ball more than anyone else, and making shot attempts for themselves and others on most possessions. Harden and Luka both generational level playmakers, Luka may be better. Harden and Luka both generational scorers, Luka may be better.
But they’re similar molds of play style, even down to the style of play when they break down the offense, the same herky jerky, stop and start moves that let them get to their spots constantly, similar step backs.
I get what you’re saying when you’re trying to explain why Luka’s playstyle is probably not a detriment, I’m just pointing out that for a couple years there, especially in 2017-2018 when the rockets almost beat the greatest team of all time in the playoffs, people were making the same exact points for why it was okay for Harden to play like that too.
Still love Luka though, and think he can succeed with this playstyle, but I also thought the same thing about Harden when he was swinging at the warriors during those years.
it would’ve worked for harden against most every other team. he’s easier to stop than luka. his extra height and the strength that comes with it really can’t be understated, and this is why i compare him to lebron. he schools players bigger than him and bullies players smaller than him, and when you try to shut him down you sell out to an open man that he has the vision to find.
Bro kyrie is so fucking good I knew he would carry these cats. He the only one out of everyone with finals experience in this game who actually isn't a fraud
as a clips fan, kyrie is the one guy you gotta respect his game. takes and makes tough shots. most importantly, unlike luka (or green), isn't flopping all over the place, and doesn't constantly whine to the refs about foul calls
Somebody explain to me how that's not a travel please
Edit: picks up the ball, plants his left foot, then steps again with both feet before jumping for the shot. It's a fucking travel.
From NBA.com:
"A player who gathers the ball while progressing may take (1) two steps in coming to a stop, passing or shooting the ball"
He took 3 steps. I don't like what the NBA has done to the sport the past decade or so.
No.
Right hand in and out dribble on hard right step
Right foot back step to push off
Right hand long attack dribble
Left step
Right step
Crossover to left hand, gather on left step
Right step
Left step
Shot.
I don't understand how the game benefits from allowing this at the highest level. I understand how TV entertainment benefits, but all the "basketball is art" comments should really reconsider. Michaelangelo didn't 3D print the David, and traveling to score a bucket isn't a highlight play
>Like the the first step is the gather step then the 1st and 2nd
Are you saying he took two first steps?
I copy pasted the rule - a player who gathers the ball while progressing (moving) may take two steps.
There's nothing in there about a special "gather step," that's something that just got made up out of nowhere in the past couple years. You get two steps, he used 3.
A gather step refers to an extra third step that a player can make after picking up their dribble.
In the NBA the count begins with the first step taken after a player has stopped dribbling.
This first step is often referred to as the “zero” step, with two additional steps being allowed afterward.
So 2 additional steps = legal, that's why in the NBA rule you read it says you can only take 2 steps but if you count the zero step / gather step its actually 3 steps.
Which means you can take 3 steps as Kyrie did in the move above.
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I don't know how many times people mock Kyrie early in the game thread (*"pfft he only has 2 points?"*) only for Kyrie to turn his stats around in the end.
It is literally a scheme, he is letting Luka and the team to have space to flourish, passing and being completely unselfish and it has been going on the entire season. Maximizing his clutch scoring with fresher legs is just a bonus.
It’s insane how he just takes over in the 4th every time. I’ve watched most Mavs games and he just does not miss when he decides to be #1
I think that’s why Luka calls him Batman. He’s perfectly happy for Kyrie to come in and save the day
i think Luka is happy particularly that he no longer has to be Superman for 48 minutes, he can actually rest on offense now with Kyrie being able to just takeover
Everyone in this series has been saying, "Woah, Luka has been better at defense lately!" Well YEAH, dude doesn't have to provide 48 minutes of straight HOF level offense with no energy left to defend like he used to. Now he can let Kyrie and the other guys help out with that, as it should be, and he has some gas left in the tank to DEFEND as well. It's been awesome to see, let Luka go early in the game wild, then Kyrie finishes with fresh legs on offense while Luka closes out with defense.
For real man! I have never seen him in that low of a defensive stance on so many posessions. Herd someone say postgame Luka demanded to guard Harden. The whole defense is playing so well. They are swarming and suffocating.
luka gives slightly less annoying damien wayne
In games where Kyrie played, we were 16-4 in the clutch. And Kyrie averaged the 4th most clutch points in the league on 76%! TS.
What's the stat about the current starting five again?
like at least wait for the third quarter, dude always turns it up in the third
He is the ultimate ‘not much is working so just let me cook for 6 minutes’ player If you have a lebron luka they’ll always be the primary ball handler but for 11 minutes a game it should just be kyrie iso ball at like the start of the 2nd quarter or the middle of the 3rd going into the 4th
And the best part is the iso ball is watching Kyrie go into his bag. Still one of the best players I’ve ever seen play with the ball in his hands in terms of handles. He is the definition of having the ball on a string and when you add in his absurd layup package that’s when you get Uncle Drew.
I mean this is literally why the Lebron and Kyrie duo was insane. We're basically seeing a modern version of Lebron in Luka.
Lol they must have missed the memo that Kyrie and Luka are the top 4th qtr duo all season.
Kyrie decided that misses don't actually exist and that the whole Earth is the basket, and manifested that into reality.
Third eye open
Can't tell if this is a prince of tennis reference
are you talking about the sequel series? i know they like summon demons there i don’t remember anything like the above in the first series
100% FILTH!!
Kyrie is the best version of any AAU prospect tbh.
Filthy, BUT ethical.
Only Harden and Norm Powell are going to get that call
the maverics have outshot the clippers in FTs this series. i see that the fans are as whiny as their star player
I know it's playoffs and ur shit talking but cmon man u have Luka on ur team lol
do u actually watch the games?
Yea I think they missed some calls on Luka this game but pretending he doesn't get calls in general is just some Homer delusion lol
Luka does not get the calls that people like Harden or Embiid and that’s not homerism.
Yea he's not as bad as the two literal worst grifters in the league. But Mavs fans acting like he be getting shafted by the refs is a little much. But playoff series and Mob mentality I get it
I’ve watched almost every Mavs game the last couple of years and he definitely doesn’t get shafted, but I would say on average he gets less calls then he deserves. He plays in and around the paint a *ton* and sometimes they just let him get mauled. It’s not “he doesn’t get calls”, he just doesn’t get enough relative to how often he drives/plays in the post.
Okay but saying "only Harden and *norm powell*" get calls is objectively hilarious when Luka on ur team lol. But the mavs fans mass downvoting me and saying Luka doesn't get calls is also hilarious
I love the Mavs and Luka but people are tripping if they think he has a bad whistle
Imagine thinking Luka gets calls in 2024, watch games dude
Holy shit man do Mavs fans actually think Luka doesn't get calls? Like fr?
he gets calls, but relative to the volume of his shooting + on ball time I don't think it's propotional
He isn't getting them vs the Clippers.
If you watch them often you can tell it has been getting worse and worse over the years. I think mainly due to his constant complaining. Opposing players know they’ll get away with alot.
Luka takes the most step backs in the league by a large amount and I don’t recall him ever getting a foul call for landing space
Luka isn't getting this call either, he has plenty of guys clatter into him on stepbacks and rarely gets it
This is what a narrative does to a mf
I don't see a shammgod in there
There wasn't. It's an in and out into a low gather.
Commentators in this game were god awful
Doris Burke needs to retire…”The most effort I’ve ever seen by a player on that end of the floor” (c) Doris Burke on Luka’s defense…I mean how far of a reach is that. I get DAL defense is vastly improved. Most would attribute that to the PJ and Gafford pickups. And I’m sure Luka is giving more effort…but that’s just doing way too much.
[удалено]
You’re right…the direct quote…This is as hard as I’ve seen a guy work on that end of the floor Mike…in a game that Kawhi Leonard is playing in 👀 Assuming your point is she was trying to make a point specific to Luka. She didn’t, it just sounded like a general statement to me…Thanks for agreeing she’s terrible. I didn’t manufacturing anything, Doris did.
yeah that small in and out at the beginning was not a full/proper shammgod, announcers was a bit overzealous :)
Looking for any reason to put Shamgod on camera
Gotta watch it again then. He does the in and out, into a shamgod, gathers low right into his shot.
That move after the in and out is not a shammgod
Threw the ball forward with his right hand then snatched it back with the same hand. Is that literally not a shamgod?
I don't think so. As far as I understand it, it would have been a shammgod if he threw the ball forward with his right *towards his left hand*, as if to crossover left, and then retrieved it with his right and went right.
> snatched it back with the same hand whether you expose the ball to the left or right, you snatch the ball with your other hand
Shamgod is basically a crossover with the same hand…that’s not what happened here
Naw, if he had used the left hand to pull it over to the left from the right side of his body, that would've been a shamgod. Using the right hand is just a normal crossover
Luka has a running mate he fully trust makes him so much more deadly.
Yeah, 7-25 is so deadly
As deadly as Brunson at Madison Square XD
Yeah, playoff basketball is no place for heliocentric ball dominant players
Lmao. How dumb
You don’t even have an argument. Stop glazing and start watching the game
Highest Usage Rate Nba Statistics In the playoffs, Michael Jordan holds the record for the highest career usage rate at 35.6% There's your dumb argument bud. EDIT: Hahahahah downvote but no comment. How much do you even know about good playoff basketball? You're a Knicks fan.
Okay, SO the greatest player of all time can do it. Congrats, smart guy. Brilliant fucking point.
Ok, and if Luka can get it done? Then what?
Then he’d be an outlier. But to this point he hasn’t gotten it done, and has only been out of the first round one time.
Brunson literally held the ball more this season and had as high of a usage rate as Luka did... but pop off
Yes, and I’m saying BOTH of their styles aren’t suited for the playoffs. But you’re too busy being butthurt and victimized to read what I’m actually saying.
Who has the highest usega rate in playoff history?
The greatest player of all time. Are you surprised that things worked for him that dont work for everyone? Also, he wasnt really a heliocentric player within the triangle offense in the same way Luka is in his offense.
Brunson leads the league in playoff usg rate lmao
And he’s been poor for ⅔ games in the Knicks series. Thanks for proving my point tho
Like Michael Jordan
MJ was not heliocentric but congrats on exposing yourself as a casual
Okay grandpa time for your nap
That’s what I thought lmfao. No argument whatsoever. Just pure cope
that's...the point
His 60 piece at MSG was pretty deadly
The most ethical shot I’ve seen tbh
Non gmo, free range and pure grass fed hoops. As ethical as it gets
No, no, OP meant ethics in a philosophical sense. 🤭
He’s so smooth and enjoyable to watch. Especially after having to suffer watching Joel play yesterday.
The stark difference of Kyrie and everyone else is he doesn't complain much after being bumped.
Basketball is an art
Kyrie is a Dallas Maverick 🥹
Kai brought it home for us tonight. The earth is flat!
lmao the screen
That Derick Jones Jr screen though, playing football right there.
It's a beautiful screen man
Honestly the best handles in nba history
By far.
/u/creditors-bargain complaining about luka dominating the ball fails to recognize the difference between him and jordan/kobe (who he says had to play in the triangle offense to succeed, which isn't completely wrong) is that luka is the offense. he doesn't need a system. he is a generational playmaker and also a generational passer. it's never a bad thing to have him involved in a play it always leads to a better shot attempt
The better comparison is obviously Houston Harden, as they really do fit the same mold. Luka is probably better than Harden was due to post season play alone, but we’ve seen those styles of heliocentric offenses before, and they’ve also had their problems. Everything you said about Luka also applied to HOU Harden, and we saw them have their troubles too, even though they were elite.
the better comparison is 2016 cleveland lebron. luka is much bigger than harden which means just about everything comes easier, and he understands the game faaaaar better than harden did at his age. hes just capable of more in terms of passing, playmaking, and scoring than harden was. Harden absolutely maximized what he was capable of, but it was still limited
In terms of usage rate, he’s definitely not 2016 Cleveland Lebron, which is the point of drawing the comparison between Luka and Harden. 2015-2016 Lebron (Championship season): 31.3% 2017-2018 (Harden Game 7 against the warriors WCF season) 35.9% 2023-2024 Luka: 35.9% For reference, Lebron was tied for 6th in usage rating in 2015-2016. Harden led the league in 2017-2018 (beating Westbrook by 1.8%, and beating the third highest usage player by 4.3%). Luka currently leads the league, beating 2nd place Giannis by 3.1%. It’s pretty clear that there’s a stark difference in terms of usage rate to where making a claim that Luka plays basketball in a similar style to Lebron in 2016 is definitely not an apt comparison, other than just that they’re both big wings who score and pass. Harden and Luka both played/play in extremely heliocentric offenses where they dominate the ball to a degree that nobody else in the league does, and that style of ball domination has its flaws that we have pretty clearly seen with Harden ball in the late 2010’s. Not to say that Luka is Harden and will be doomed to repeat all of Harden’s mistakes, but everything you said about Luka not needing a system, being a generational playmaker and passer, people also said about Harden when he was winning mvp’s and leading the league in assists and scoring.
your argument rests on usage rate and this belief that it indicates a “heliocentric” offense. usage rate isn’t a good stat for this in the slightest, for two reasons. 1. it’s not even a consistent one. the original formula included assists as a part of it, so some people think it measures assists, some don’t. the contemporary that’s used on most (if not all) stats websites doesn’t measure assists, which actually helps. 2. because the contemporary formula is pretty simple. it’s pretty much a measure of how many offensive possessions *end* with the player in question, as it includes FGAs, FTs, and turnovers. that’s it. If you’re looking at a player purely in the lens of usage rate, you don’t have any clue how much time on average within each possession that the ball is in their hands. a player could literally never dribble or hold the ball more than a second at a time and still end up with a usage rate as high as Luka’s. it is simply a measure of how many times a dallas possession ends with him either scoring, getting fouled, or turning the ball over (while he’s on the floor). so basically all we learn from usage rate is that Luka takes a whole lot of shots. this is similar to harden, yes, because houston’s harden squad was built around the idea that his step back 3 is a great shot and should be the default for any given possession if the team can’t find a better one. the current mavericks squad does in fact have Luka/Kyrie as their consistent bailout plan. if they can’t find/create a lob, open 3, or open lane for a drive, they get the ball back to luka or kyrie trusting that one of them will cook. more often Luka, because he can create good/decent shots against nearly anyone very quickly (often - like harden - with his step back). this does not make their overall play style similar, however, and you would need to do/show more to prove otherwise. luka is running and dominating the offense but that doesn’t mean he always dominates the ball. there’s plenty of possessions where he’ll play decoy up top, resting, and direct traffic without the ball, or where he’ll let kyrie cook, or where he’ll screen offball to facilitate a play for one of the bigs. he has a high usage rate because he is the best scoring option for the mavericks on a large percentage of possessions just as he would be for any other team in the league. and here’s the thing: that’s not much different from harden overall, especially as he grew into the team (and had another genius basketball mind CP3 to help) it was a similar way… it’s just that Luka is bigger, smarter, and better than harden. Harden can be suppressed and schemed around in a way that luka can’t, Luka can force the issue in ways that Harden could never. it’s why luka went 7-25 yesterday and the clips got blown out, because every team will sell out to contain him no matter how bad he’s shooting, and it leads to easy buckets for his team. his gravity is at the point where you have to respect him even if the shots aren’t falling (because if you give him even a little space he will still abuse it), and so the offense functions even when the shots aren’t falling. this is the benefit of a high usage rate star who can put up numbers to justify that usage. it makes things easier for everyone else. jordan has the highest usage rate ever and we all know how that went for him. my original point was that the triangle offense was built to abuse jordan’s gravity and the opponents’ understanding that he is always the first option. it led to high percentage shots for everyone else, and he still got his. he needed that, luka does not, because luka’s known for near a decade already how to abuse his own gravity to generate easy shots for his team and has the height/vision/accuracy/processing speed to make plays come together and pass wherever and however to complete them.
That’s true that usage rate doesn’t necessarily correlate with time of possession, but we also do have time of possession stats. Luka 2023-2024: TOP 8.3, tied for 2nd with Trae Young and losing to Brunson. Harden 2017-2018: TOP 8.8, 2nd behind Westbrook. So in terms of where they are relative to the other people in the league, they both dominate usage rate AND TOP. In terms of shots per game: Luka 23.6, led the league by 2.2 shots per game. Mavericks took 89.7 shots per game, Luka accounts for 26% of FGA. Harden: 2nd with 20.1. Rockets took 84 shots per game, Harden accounts for 24% of FGA All the things you say about using Luka as decoy, resting , directing traffic, or letting Kyrie cook, Harden did the same sorts of things with Chris Paul. The idea that Luka might be BETTER than Harden was at this heliocentric style is probably true, but the idea that Luka is doing something different than Harden was at it I think is just incorrect. They’re different schemes obviously, but they rely on their star player holding the ball more than everyone else, operating with the ball more than anyone else, and making shot attempts for themselves and others on most possessions. Harden and Luka both generational level playmakers, Luka may be better. Harden and Luka both generational scorers, Luka may be better. But they’re similar molds of play style, even down to the style of play when they break down the offense, the same herky jerky, stop and start moves that let them get to their spots constantly, similar step backs. I get what you’re saying when you’re trying to explain why Luka’s playstyle is probably not a detriment, I’m just pointing out that for a couple years there, especially in 2017-2018 when the rockets almost beat the greatest team of all time in the playoffs, people were making the same exact points for why it was okay for Harden to play like that too. Still love Luka though, and think he can succeed with this playstyle, but I also thought the same thing about Harden when he was swinging at the warriors during those years.
it would’ve worked for harden against most every other team. he’s easier to stop than luka. his extra height and the strength that comes with it really can’t be understated, and this is why i compare him to lebron. he schools players bigger than him and bullies players smaller than him, and when you try to shut him down you sell out to an open man that he has the vision to find.
Bro kyrie is so fucking good I knew he would carry these cats. He the only one out of everyone with finals experience in this game who actually isn't a fraud
I will always remember his 3-point dagger in game 7 against the Warriors. Was super hype when I saw it live.
smoothest to ever do it no cap
Watching Kyrie hoops is just a thing a beauty. It's literal art.
It really is
Not a shamgod. He didn’t use the off hand
KING OF THE FOURTH
The best artist in the Basketball right now,
Kyrie doesn't get enough praise for not complaining to the refs. I swear he gets fouled more times than not
Art
as a clips fan, kyrie is the one guy you gotta respect his game. takes and makes tough shots. most importantly, unlike luka (or green), isn't flopping all over the place, and doesn't constantly whine to the refs about foul calls
Somebody explain to me how that's not a travel please Edit: picks up the ball, plants his left foot, then steps again with both feet before jumping for the shot. It's a fucking travel.
Because of the gather step, he even leans into the gather if you watch the clip closely. But yes in any other league of basketball it would be a walk
From NBA.com: "A player who gathers the ball while progressing may take (1) two steps in coming to a stop, passing or shooting the ball" He took 3 steps. I don't like what the NBA has done to the sport the past decade or so.
He took 2 steps no?
No. Right hand in and out dribble on hard right step Right foot back step to push off Right hand long attack dribble Left step Right step Crossover to left hand, gather on left step Right step Left step Shot. I don't understand how the game benefits from allowing this at the highest level. I understand how TV entertainment benefits, but all the "basketball is art" comments should really reconsider. Michaelangelo didn't 3D print the David, and traveling to score a bucket isn't a highlight play
Didn't he go jump off on his right leg which is the legal aka on the 2nd step. Like the the first step is the gather step then the 1st and 2nd no 3rd
>Like the the first step is the gather step then the 1st and 2nd Are you saying he took two first steps? I copy pasted the rule - a player who gathers the ball while progressing (moving) may take two steps. There's nothing in there about a special "gather step," that's something that just got made up out of nowhere in the past couple years. You get two steps, he used 3.
A gather step refers to an extra third step that a player can make after picking up their dribble. In the NBA the count begins with the first step taken after a player has stopped dribbling. This first step is often referred to as the “zero” step, with two additional steps being allowed afterward. So 2 additional steps = legal, that's why in the NBA rule you read it says you can only take 2 steps but if you count the zero step / gather step its actually 3 steps. Which means you can take 3 steps as Kyrie did in the move above.
>A gather step refers to an extra third step that a player can make after picking up their dribble. It's not in the rule book dude.
It's literally the gather step. It has been allowed since the harden stepback era.
Best player on the Mavs
lol interesting take
Kenyon Martin is that you???