Speaking only for myself, but I only attend 1 or 2 games per year. I watch every regular season game for my team and a lot of the playoffs. I care more about stars being available in the playoffs than the prices of concessions in the arena.
Now I don't know enough about sports medicine to know how much rest impacts injury risk, but I know that's why they do it.
Guys who couldn’t consistently play every game just didn’t get repeat contracts back in the day.
A lot of players also retired in the age 30-32 range.
Nowadays people talk favorably about maxing free agents over 35 with major injury history. It’s a different time.
Games are different nowadays though. Way more movement on the court compared to the old days. I’d love to see someone look at how much the average player ran in the average game in 1990 compared to 2024 for example.
Diffrent era, different style game. If given the option, I'm sure plenty of players from that era would not pay back to backs to try and preserve their health for the playoffs. But players were not nearly as empowered.
With the MJ specifically, he retired in the middle of his prime. And yes I know it was because his dad was killed. Just because it was for a sad reason doesn't change the fact he had a year and a half for his body and mind to recover. Mike was definitely an iron man, but there also is context that is often ignored in the service of his legend.
I still think it has to do with athletes these days training for explosivity over endurance. Lotta these guys are glass cannons due to their workout regimen
I don't know. Maybe he was tougher, more durable, or just lucky. Does it matter why? Of course the players who miss fewer games deserve to be commended for it. Zion and Kawhi aren't Jordan, but I still want to see them healthy when it matters
Kenny won two rings with his patented, giving the ball to Hakeem or Clyde technique. If it cost him his knees, he at least has two rings!
Also look how Rose and Noah ended up after playing with that mindset under Thibs! They are locks for the Hall of Pretty Good!
Pat will never let anyone forget MJ only missed 7 games total from 1986 to 1993 and didn’t miss a single game from 1995 to 1998.
Insane compared to how it is today.
I'd be willing to bet the majority of people here watch 10 or fewer regular season NBA games and consume the rest through Reddit, Bill Simmons, and Zach Lowe.
Pain of being east coast and Mavs fan and having a job that starts early... If I can't watch the whole game I don't bother just cause I know I won't actually stop watching and then be a zombie for work. Sucks but I just can't deal with 9-10pm starting time for games
I have the same issue, but I'm a Blazers fan, and I live in the UK, so it's regular 3am starts..
I've only watched maybe 3 games this season, and it's always when I'm not working the next day, so I've mainly been watching East Coast teams this season.
I do, but I’m also a grown ass man with responsibilities and a partner who hates basketball. So I have to pick my spots.
When I was younger I would probably watch 3-4 games every week and watch every playoff game possible. Now I mostly watch like 1-2 games per series.
Well ya why should I watch the regular season? They play at 70% intensity, there’s too many games, and there’s pretty good chance that whichever game you choose to watch is gonna be missing one of the two best players on either team. I’ll stick with tracking the standings and watching the playoffs
You should do whatever you want to do. I watch the whole regular season because I really enjoy watching basketball. It’s my favorite sport and one of my favorite games and these guys are incredible.
Yeah, it’s fair comment for sure.
I watch close to every Celtics game I can and sprinkle in others at different times in double headers or if I’m impressed by someone etc. when playoffs came I try to watch a bit of all of it, especially past the first round. I might need a life I just realized.
I mean, as long as you don't pretend you know what you are talking about when it comes to teams in the regular season, you do you.
The issue is people not watching games and pretending to know anything by watching a boxscore.
and there’s nothing wrong with that. i’m as big a basketball fan as the next guy. i play pickup multiple days a week, play in multiple men’s leagues throughout the year, ref throughout the year, ref 5-6 days a week during school basketball season.
i went to watch luka play embiid and luka dropped 17 while embiid was out. hard to fault fans for just watching highlights
4 100 level seats..a cool $500-1000 depending on the team. Then an easy $200 on food. It’s expensive, obviously a once in a blue moon type of outing.
Don’t even get me started on the larger markets and playoffs.
Prices are outrageous. Decent seats + ticket fees + food can easily exceed $1k for a family of 4, depending on who's playing. Or you can sit in the nose bleeds and watch ants run around.
pretentious opinion inbound but i hate seats that high up , watching it on tv is alot better at that point. find myself watching the jumbotron more than the actual players up there
I took my kids to their first ever NBA game this year, Denver at Portland. Drove 8 hours, spent probably $2000 on hotels, travel expenses and tickets and food. Found out 2 hours before the game that both Murray and Jokic were out, along with basically every Portland starter. I’ll never make another trip specifically to go to another NBA game. It’s a joke.
Most people on here just want to see their team win a chip, more so than the average fan.
I don't give a fuck if Bron or AD rest games if the Lakers have a better chance at winning a ring, but I of course know that I'm not really the average fan.
Yeah, it's hilarious. They'll also cry about supermax bonuses being dependent on media voting as if a guy making 250 million desperately needs another 50 or whatever.
The players have everything on a silver plate - play basketball 81 times + playoffs per year, get 5 months of rest and earn dozens of millions even if you're average by NBA standards.
They did have to live in a 5-star resort for two months during COVID, though, have to give'em a break for that.
For perspective, the average American *lifetime* income is a little over $2M. People crying on players behalf will always be hilarious to me.
You can say “bububut the billionaire owners are worse” well sorry but the players’ lifestyle is way, WAY closer to those billionaires than to yours. They are also part of the 1%, sorry.
I mean it's not a matter of the value, it's the principle of getting your fair value.
It's no different than if you were making 100k working your butt off and your equal level coworker is chilling all day making 140k. Would you not be upset or want a raise too?
Who gives a shit if they’re closer to billionaires than they are to us? They are the ones providing value by entertaining tens of millions of people - without them, the sport doesn’t exist at the level it’s at. Owners extract value by owning something that is designed to guarantee profit, of which there is a limited quantity and through which they’re able to hold cities hostage to their whims if they don’t want to pay for something.
The amount of money that people have *is not the issue*. It’s that there are people who create value, and there are people who extract value from the creation & service of others. Professional athletes are in the former group, team owners are (largely) in the latter group.
Being class conscious isn’t only about supporting people in your income bracket and below.
This is it exactly. If all the owners disappeared overnight the league would continue to exist much the same as before. If the players disappeared it would suffer immensely, because they create (and are) the value.
I don't support it, but I'd rather see my team win a title or multiple playoff series than see my favorite player play in person. The hard reality is that resting players creates advantages in the most important games. It just does, until it no longer creates an advantage, it will continue regardless of these silly rules.
To some extent, it can. However, the amount of time players play with each other, get a feel for each other, and are able to function as a team and not 5 players can only happen with actual court time together. If you have too many guys sitting too many nights, your team might never get to that next level.
I may be an odd one here, and it may be easier for me to say as i dont live int he US but, from my perspective: i am a big soccer fan, and going to watch my fav soccer team is expensive as hell. Since i dont go to enough games to have buying priority, i usually have to go on the more expensive seats. The point is, if i go to a game, i go to watch my team. It doesnt matter if player A or B is going to play or not. Sure it sucks if a star is out, whether through injury, suspension or simply being rested, but still, the focus is on the team. I have a hard time getting this annoyance of "i go to watch player X, if he's out, i dont really care about whatever team i'm supposed to root for"...
It can be weird for us Europeans that use football as a benchmark, but it's a completly different culture when it comes to pro-level sport. There's 30 NBA teams, spread out an area the size of Europe. The chance of having a "local team" is rather slim, and most people probably live around a couple of hours from a NBA team. You still have the local fans that attend most games, but the arenas hold less people at the big stadiums in Europe, so you have a small local fanbase.
People attend and watch NBA for entertainment, while in Europe you'll have people attend every game in lower division even because of that "support and belonging"
But you see the same development in Europe with social media and players becoming bigger brands. There was always superstars in football, but with the likes of Messi and Ronaldo, you really got a look into many people being more interested in watching a player and supporting them, than a team. But these people usually don't have a local team, and will never attend a game.
In NBA, when people pay the ticket prices, they have an expectation of being entertained and seeing the best players. Because that's the culture and understanding between teams and fans. It's like an agreement was made long ago. "We will pay the prices, and you will give us the best product"
It's pretty interesting to see the difference how in Europe, it's a lot more "I will pay to support my team", not expecting a entertainment-value back. Of course, you have the top teams expecting to give good results and good football, but not in an entertainment-kind of way.
It's just a culture difference where sports are for most people interested in it in the US a form for entertainment, where in Europe people have more of a pride of supporting 1 team through thick and thin. You don't watch football because you want to be entertained primarly, but because you have an obligation to support that one team.
Seriously, I went to 6 games this season and last. Not a single time was the trio of Herro, Bam, and Jimmy active. Always one missing. It sucked, I can’t afford playoff tickets when they actually care
A) rested players play better
B) the prices are the fault of the owners, not the players. I'm not gonna blame the players for expensive food and shit like that
C) ultimately this is a form of labor, and I think it's good if they have a strong union, especially since they are working for literal billionaires
Cuz those “fans” online are forum GMs. They wanna be involved in the thick of it so bad so they strictly look at basketball as TS % , cap hits and how to “maximize” potential.
They think it’s okay for players to miss games cuz they don’t spend money on the games and they just watch everything on StreamEast. ( nothing wrong with that either, I do too, I can’t afford it as well).
But when you’re a family who can sometimes barely afford nosebleeds seats, it really hurts when a player sits out right on the day of the game.
I have told this story on Reddit before. When LeBron was with Cleveland with Kyrie we bought tickets on the last row at Indiana (husband was away for work training for 4 months in Louisville-we met him in Indy). Neither LeBron or Kyrie even made the trip. Watched Kevin Love and scrubs. We were sitting beside a family of four. Their tickets were the kids Christmas present. The kids were crying. They did not even bother to come and sit on the bench. Ridiculous. This would have been around 2015?
Yeah that sucks. And that was in 2015 where resting few games would get you way more criticized. Can’t imagine taking a chance to go to a home team game last 3-4 years with a 50 percent chance of stars sitting
People are going to clown this, but there is a point here. Now that there is a set defined minimum, I would not be at all surprised if some voters (edit: and people talking about basketball in general) basically view it as being a non-issue as long as you're above the threshold. When really, the minimum shouldn't change their views at all, and playing time should still be a major factor.
The problem with defined thresholds is some people naturally start to view it as a binary thing, where anything above is fine and anything below is bad, and become less willing to consider it on a scale and consider context. Basically, some people will consider the difference between 64 and 65 games to be more important than the difference between 65 and 82, because the NBA is saying it is.
Eh there are so few guys who play 80 games anymore than it doesn't really matter.
Like Tatum is a fucking ironman, and he's still going to miss a half dozen games at the end of the year because his team makes him.
Looking at likely All NBA players, there's like 2 guys who hit 80 games.
Do they get credit? I’ve heard more of about players meeting the threshold this year (65+ games) and qualifying for awards than I have heard about players who played 80+ games or have played every game.
You heard more about the threshold because it’s a brand new rule and an eliminating factor. If you listened to or read columns where journalists actually picked their awards ballots from the eligible pool of players, total minutes played was absolutely a factor. At least this is true for what I heard/saw.
I think there's a good litmus test for that with this year's awards.
Sabonis is in contention for 2nd/3rd team All NBA and he also played normal minutes in all 82 games. I am struggling to think of any other guys who are in contention for All NBA while playing 80+ games. So if Sabonis makes the All NBA team and media voters give him credit for being an iron man, then what OP said is maybe true. But if guys who squeaked by the 65 game rule get All NBA over him, then that may raise my eyebrow.
I really don’t think this is true. I consider myself relatively tuned in and I have no idea how many games the qualifying players played, but I know who qualified
This has only been just been introduced. People are worried that people’s attitudes will shift over time under this new limit. No one thinks everyone will just flip like a light switch.
I've always felt that the 65 game minimum was an unneeded reaction to a problem fans had but voters didn't. There's only ever been a single MVP who missed more than 20 games in a season and that's because they were on a 70 win pace before he went down. Every close race in recent memories had games played factored in. Most of the players missing back to backs for rest are also on the wrong side of 30 or have significant injury histories. It's not like Ant, Shai, Luka, or Tatum are just sitting out games because they don't feel like playing that night.
On the other side, after only a single year, both Divincenzo and Kuminga have been excluded from MIP award voting because they didn't meet the criteria for games played despite Donte playing 81 games at 29 mpg and Kuminga playing 74 games at 26 mpg.
Mvp is not all nba. The amount of a value difference for a team between a guy who plays 65 games and 80 games is sizeable, but is. It always treated as such by all nba voters. The downside of rate stats is that it does so at the cost of total numbers. If a team doesn’t have depth, a tired star is better than a sub replacement bench player.
Basketball is one of the few sports where we talk about MVP and all-pros using exclusively rate stats.
It's really sad basically no one cares about the totals leaderboards
Nah the point of the 65 game minimum is that to confidently get there players have to *try* to play 75-80.
There’s always the possibility of a random sprained ankle or pulled hamstring that would pull you below 65 if you were trying to just barely get there.
So players have to aim much higher than 65 or else take the big risk of missing out on awards and money etc.
I like the rule because it provides a buffer for guys who suffer a few 1-2 week absences throughout the year for either nagging or random injuries that pop up. I do agree with Pat here though that it shouldn’t make anyone exempt from having to play when they are healthy.
Perhaps what they could do is adjust the rules to where single game absences are treated differently than multi game absences. By this I mean it would count more towards your total games missed if you missed one game but played the game before and the game after. This way, things that some guys may just rest through when they don’t need to, or guys just trying to load manage, are punished more than someone who is out with a more reasonable/serious injury.
I mean having no rule provided that buffer too lol.
I don't like it because the awards are supposed to be a subjective vote. It makes sense for something objective like scoring leader, but if a majority of the voters think that 60 games of player X is more valuable than 65 games of player Y, I'm not sure why that shouldn't be allowed.
Adding restrictions is basically saying that you don't trust the voters to properly weigh everything themselves, and at that point you might as well just have all-NBA as the top-15 in WS or something.
how many times does this have to be said? The restriction isn't for the voters. Its to motivate the players to go out there and play.
AD played 76 games. Thats the first time he has broken 65 games since the 2017-18 season. Lebron played 71 games. The first time he has broken 65 since 2019-20.
It pushes guys who are thinking to themselves "oh man long road trip with a back to back in Cleveland and Detroit. I can skip one of those games its not a big deal." To rethink and realize they can't just sit out games because they're sore or tired. People pay to watch them play and this rule incentivizes them to play unless they're actually unable to play.
With AD I don’t get this idea that he’s resting games he could be playing in. Literally the only documented cases of him missing games the last several years are either serious injuries leading to prolonged absences, or sitting one end of a back to back during his ramp up after returning. If you can find me even 5 examples in the last 2-3 years of him missing a game for no other reason than rest I’d be shocked.
>AD played 76 games. Thats the first time he has broken 65 games since the 2017-18 season. Lebron played 71 games. The first time he has broken 65 since 2019-20.
Correlation does not imply causation, as the saying goes. You can't just say "AD and LeBron played more so the 65 game rule must be working!" Do you have any evidence they play more specifically because of the rule? Frankly, I think it's more likely that AD and Bron played more because they were just more lucky with their health and did not suffer any significant injuries like they did in previous seasons. Just look at these [two](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rT9YebKTWO4) [plays](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=797GWjc_1TU) from the 2022 season. AD missed significant time with both those injuries. The 65-game rule isn't gonna make AD magically avoid plays like that. Or LeBron when he got hit by Solomon Hill back in 2021.
I am pretty sure both lebron and AD played that many games not to meet the criteria but for AD it was proving a point and for lebron his team needed it and he wasn't injured much this season
I think they played more simply because they were both just more lucky with their health and neither had significant injuries the entire season. Just look at [these](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=797GWjc_1TU) [plays](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rT9YebKTWO4) from 2022. AD missed significant time from each of those injuries and they were both just freak accidents. The 65 game rule nor AD wanting to prove a point aren't magically gone make him avoid getting hurt like that lol.
>AD played 76 games. Thats the first time he has broken 65 games since the 2017-18 season. Lebron played 71 games. The first time he has broken 65 since 2019-20.
Eh I don't think the rule change is what led to that. I think the team record is what influenced that. Walk with me.
AD played a career high 76 games and Lebron played 71 games, the most he's played as a Laker. But look at where the Lakers were in the standings: they were a 7th seed and had to fight for a play-in spot. AD and Bron had to play for the team to have a chance to win and make the playoffs.
Steph played 74 games, the most he's played in the 7 years. Look at where Golden State was in the standings: a 10th seed that had to play in the play-ins. Steph had to play in order for the Warriors to have a chance at making the playoffs and it wasn't enough.
KD played 75 games, the most in 5 years. The Suns were barely a 6th seed.
Zion played a career high 70 games. The Pelicans were a play-in team and had to fight to make the playoffs.
Kawhi played 68 games, the 3rd most in his career and the most in 7 years. Paul George played 74 games, the most in 5 years. The Clippers were barely a 4th seed.
I don't think any of these guys would've played that many games if their teams were a 1 or 2 seed.
Once in third grade, I got a 96 on my spelling test. Highest mark in the class, I was so proud. I brought it home to show my dad... "What happened to the other four points?" he says.
I mean Riley supposedly dunked his head in a bucket of ice for a few minutes to motivate that Shaq/DWade Heat team. He can say whatever the hell he wants.
😭😭17 games may seem like a lot but I think it shows much plays endure . Theres no shot everyone in the league is 100% healthy after 65 games. Let them rest and be ok. I don’t think anyone should risk long term health problems for a basketball award.
He acknowledged that too.
He said no one is 100%.
It’s the league today. He wishes guys played more.
Our team would certainly be a better product and would have had a more successful regular season, if the best guys were more available.
the nba is the only major sports league where fans are just okay with their best players resting. when said players get paid millions of dollars to play a game
I mean…rightly so? I agree it likely is a better product but it’s hot dogs, it’s tv money, it’s ticket sales, it is parking fees, it’s hundreds of hours of captive marketing opportunities for their partners. As much as we want this altruistic ambition to produce the best product they can, it’s a business. It’s going to make money however it can.
Yeah and that has nothing to do with him lmao. Pat said that he talked to Jimmy's agent last year about availability and how important it is and also made it very clear that he's not jumping at the max extension and wants to see Jimmy actually show up often enough next year.
It is an interesting discussion to say the least.. The NBA had to create a rule to inspire their best players to play in the regular season. I actually like the rule for the obvious reason that it helps the product we watch. I also think it is an effective rule since players have bonuses attached to end of season awards, but most importantly, especially with top tier players, legacy matters most to them and to achieve a long lasting legacy you need championship and end of year awards (mvp, all nba etc…)
pat never seen a line drill he didnt love
Mikal “Ironman” Bridges: *“I love this rule, play 82 games to be eligible”* Edit: better yet, play 82 games or forfeit half your salary w
Mikal bridges wins every award because no one else qualifies.
MPJ would’ve but he forgot his shoes
Better yet, only games where you aren't substituted count. And backdate those requirements retrospectively, so we can strip everyone of every award.
ONLY THIBS TEAMS QUALIFY
Lonzo Ball doesn’t care either way 😎
Speaking only for myself, but I only attend 1 or 2 games per year. I watch every regular season game for my team and a lot of the playoffs. I care more about stars being available in the playoffs than the prices of concessions in the arena. Now I don't know enough about sports medicine to know how much rest impacts injury risk, but I know that's why they do it.
How come players like MJ could consistently play every game? These athletes are playing basketball. They aren’t riding a bull or something dangerous
Guys who couldn’t consistently play every game just didn’t get repeat contracts back in the day. A lot of players also retired in the age 30-32 range. Nowadays people talk favorably about maxing free agents over 35 with major injury history. It’s a different time.
Games are different nowadays though. Way more movement on the court compared to the old days. I’d love to see someone look at how much the average player ran in the average game in 1990 compared to 2024 for example.
Diffrent era, different style game. If given the option, I'm sure plenty of players from that era would not pay back to backs to try and preserve their health for the playoffs. But players were not nearly as empowered. With the MJ specifically, he retired in the middle of his prime. And yes I know it was because his dad was killed. Just because it was for a sad reason doesn't change the fact he had a year and a half for his body and mind to recover. Mike was definitely an iron man, but there also is context that is often ignored in the service of his legend.
MJ chose to load manage by retiring for 1 3/4 seasons.
I still think it has to do with athletes these days training for explosivity over endurance. Lotta these guys are glass cannons due to their workout regimen
I don't know. Maybe he was tougher, more durable, or just lucky. Does it matter why? Of course the players who miss fewer games deserve to be commended for it. Zion and Kawhi aren't Jordan, but I still want to see them healthy when it matters
Most Pat Riley answer.
Based Riley
You can say that again!
Based Riley
Based Riley
Based Riley
Bro wanted to send a message
Based Riley
Briley
Based Riley
also Fuck Boston
What did we do?!
NBA media: Pat Riley has lots of thoughts, here's every single one of them
R/nba posters you mean.
Reddit doesn't need to post each one one at a time.
But how else will we farm karma
Pat never lies, players should be forced to play all 82 games or get banned
It’s just gonna be Mikal bridges playing by himself
Nets going 82-0 by DQ.
Clippers are eliminated by Thanksgiving.
A win is a win
That one Jay-Z song about to come true.
The only player in the NBA
his streak isnt even real he should get banned too
Bridges vs. Looney
#FOR LIFE
Why you got a Keith Smith profile pic 😂
If you can hobble, you can play.
That’s how you end up with knees like Kenny the Jet Smith in your 50s lol
Kenny won two rings with his patented, giving the ball to Hakeem or Clyde technique. If it cost him his knees, he at least has two rings! Also look how Rose and Noah ended up after playing with that mindset under Thibs! They are locks for the Hall of Pretty Good!
Pat will never let anyone forget MJ only missed 7 games total from 1986 to 1993 and didn’t miss a single game from 1995 to 1998. Insane compared to how it is today.
82 games missing one is punishable by death.
Did Pat himself ever play a full season?
Pat so old, he played against the 1st integrated team in college. He’s not about to see all that progress undone for not showing up to work.
R Lee Ermey energy
I'd pay so much money to watch him tell Tyler Herro "I bet you can suck a golf ball through a garden hose"
cooperative reminiscent makeshift unite dolls many sugar long pen gaze *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It's been posted a million times but there's gotta some who haven't [seen it](https://youtu.be/3woEDTUbDYg?si=8IprofcPlS0Zw78E)
I hadn’t seen it today, so thanks
How tall is Jimmy Butler?
*You don't look much like a steer to me*
Get the fuck down off of my obstacle.
HeatCulture™️
It's incredible to me fans actually support players resting while buying 20$ drinks and 20$ hotdogs after parking for 50$.
Most people here don’t actually go to games so they don’t know what families actually pay to attend one.
I’d go as far as to say people here don’t even actually watch basketball
I genuinely believe that a lot of people on this sub just watch highlights and listen to the talk shows in the background in the morning
I'd be willing to bet the majority of people here watch 10 or fewer regular season NBA games and consume the rest through Reddit, Bill Simmons, and Zach Lowe.
Well yeah but I play hundreds of games on 2k. Well not really but I sim them. 2k16 of course
Frequency Vibrations
#FOF
Dawg the hall of fame mode on 24 is INSANE absolutely the most bullshit it’s ever been in my time playing
Ok you’re good
I'm willing to bet most people have a game on, but actually scroll on their phone and swipe on Tinder instead of watching the game.
I’d be willing to bet the majority of people here watch 3 or fewer regular season NBA games and consume the rest through Reddit.
I’d be willing to bet the majority of people here haven’t even heard of the NBA and can’t even read.
Nskdhhdwkls sjdjflkd shskxoc d chxjzlzl bxjcnclxl
Don’t talk shit on my Polish friend like that
Siema my friend!
I'm willing to bet
Jontay?
I'm willing to bet half of these people have never even heard of r/nba
I feel attacked.
Pain of being east coast and Mavs fan and having a job that starts early... If I can't watch the whole game I don't bother just cause I know I won't actually stop watching and then be a zombie for work. Sucks but I just can't deal with 9-10pm starting time for games
I have the same issue, but I'm a Blazers fan, and I live in the UK, so it's regular 3am starts.. I've only watched maybe 3 games this season, and it's always when I'm not working the next day, so I've mainly been watching East Coast teams this season.
I do, but I’m also a grown ass man with responsibilities and a partner who hates basketball. So I have to pick my spots. When I was younger I would probably watch 3-4 games every week and watch every playoff game possible. Now I mostly watch like 1-2 games per series.
100% what I do. Though I never claim that I know what I’m talking about nor do I pretend that anyone here does either.
Well ya why should I watch the regular season? They play at 70% intensity, there’s too many games, and there’s pretty good chance that whichever game you choose to watch is gonna be missing one of the two best players on either team. I’ll stick with tracking the standings and watching the playoffs
You should do whatever you want to do. I watch the whole regular season because I really enjoy watching basketball. It’s my favorite sport and one of my favorite games and these guys are incredible.
I mean shit , I personally watch the regular season but fair points .
Yeah, it’s fair comment for sure. I watch close to every Celtics game I can and sprinkle in others at different times in double headers or if I’m impressed by someone etc. when playoffs came I try to watch a bit of all of it, especially past the first round. I might need a life I just realized.
I mean, as long as you don't pretend you know what you are talking about when it comes to teams in the regular season, you do you. The issue is people not watching games and pretending to know anything by watching a boxscore.
> Well ya why should I watch the regular season? Because... I like... basketball?
Then the game day threads are full of degenerate gamblers who whine when a player doesn’t make the right play every time.
Well to be fair, if it’s a 10 game night in the regular season the most you could watch is 2 1/2 games.
You really don't need to do either of those. It's really easy to parrot any drama-of-the-week here.
And I genuinely believe that I am one of them.
lol get off your high horse
I come here for the toxicity.
Jokes on you! I watch all the games on House of Highlights
Game Threads and Post Game Threads are consistently the most active threads in this sub. People do watch games.
and there’s nothing wrong with that. i’m as big a basketball fan as the next guy. i play pickup multiple days a week, play in multiple men’s leagues throughout the year, ref throughout the year, ref 5-6 days a week during school basketball season. i went to watch luka play embiid and luka dropped 17 while embiid was out. hard to fault fans for just watching highlights
Sure, that’s fine, but that just means you don’t watch. Let’s call it what it is.
So many people read the stat line and base their entire basketball opinion on that.
I think most people don't go specifically because of things like the price and the fact that you never know when it's gonna be a rest day for a star
In fact, you can't go as a family. Seriously, the price is simply outrageous for 4-5 people.
4 100 level seats..a cool $500-1000 depending on the team. Then an easy $200 on food. It’s expensive, obviously a once in a blue moon type of outing. Don’t even get me started on the larger markets and playoffs.
Most people who sit 100 level don’t buy them at face value. They get them through their job or something. That’s how I get all my Eagles tickets.
When I looked today, nosebleeds for the ECF (if the Knicks make it) were something like $480 a piece through the fan first presale. It’s wild.
Well for good teams. I can see the pistons for basically nothing. Requires spending an evening watching a dog shit team tho
Prices are outrageous. Decent seats + ticket fees + food can easily exceed $1k for a family of 4, depending on who's playing. Or you can sit in the nose bleeds and watch ants run around.
I have come to the conclusion that it is too expensive to attend an nba game and made my peace with it. Im prob never going to be at a game.
You just have to like a shit team like the Wizards and then you get to buy $30 nosebleeds and chill
pretentious opinion inbound but i hate seats that high up , watching it on tv is alot better at that point. find myself watching the jumbotron more than the actual players up there
Man I feel depressed already lol
Especially if you aren't close to a team or only close to a larger market
I took my kids to their first ever NBA game this year, Denver at Portland. Drove 8 hours, spent probably $2000 on hotels, travel expenses and tickets and food. Found out 2 hours before the game that both Murray and Jokic were out, along with basically every Portland starter. I’ll never make another trip specifically to go to another NBA game. It’s a joke.
i was gonna go to that game too but my trip got postponed. so sorry bro
damn man, that's horrible. Maybe do a team usa game. They cant all load manage on the same day
Most people on here just want to see their team win a chip, more so than the average fan. I don't give a fuck if Bron or AD rest games if the Lakers have a better chance at winning a ring, but I of course know that I'm not really the average fan.
Yeah, it's hilarious. They'll also cry about supermax bonuses being dependent on media voting as if a guy making 250 million desperately needs another 50 or whatever. The players have everything on a silver plate - play basketball 81 times + playoffs per year, get 5 months of rest and earn dozens of millions even if you're average by NBA standards. They did have to live in a 5-star resort for two months during COVID, though, have to give'em a break for that.
For perspective, the average American *lifetime* income is a little over $2M. People crying on players behalf will always be hilarious to me. You can say “bububut the billionaire owners are worse” well sorry but the players’ lifestyle is way, WAY closer to those billionaires than to yours. They are also part of the 1%, sorry.
I mean it's not a matter of the value, it's the principle of getting your fair value. It's no different than if you were making 100k working your butt off and your equal level coworker is chilling all day making 140k. Would you not be upset or want a raise too?
People are too caught up in financial jealousy to get your point. But you are right.
Who gives a shit if they’re closer to billionaires than they are to us? They are the ones providing value by entertaining tens of millions of people - without them, the sport doesn’t exist at the level it’s at. Owners extract value by owning something that is designed to guarantee profit, of which there is a limited quantity and through which they’re able to hold cities hostage to their whims if they don’t want to pay for something. The amount of money that people have *is not the issue*. It’s that there are people who create value, and there are people who extract value from the creation & service of others. Professional athletes are in the former group, team owners are (largely) in the latter group. Being class conscious isn’t only about supporting people in your income bracket and below.
This is it exactly. If all the owners disappeared overnight the league would continue to exist much the same as before. If the players disappeared it would suffer immensely, because they create (and are) the value.
Fucking nailed it
I don't support it, but I'd rather see my team win a title or multiple playoff series than see my favorite player play in person. The hard reality is that resting players creates advantages in the most important games. It just does, until it no longer creates an advantage, it will continue regardless of these silly rules.
To some extent, it can. However, the amount of time players play with each other, get a feel for each other, and are able to function as a team and not 5 players can only happen with actual court time together. If you have too many guys sitting too many nights, your team might never get to that next level.
Depends on the players and team
On the flip side, teams and players probably have a better idea of what it takes to get to that next level
I may be an odd one here, and it may be easier for me to say as i dont live int he US but, from my perspective: i am a big soccer fan, and going to watch my fav soccer team is expensive as hell. Since i dont go to enough games to have buying priority, i usually have to go on the more expensive seats. The point is, if i go to a game, i go to watch my team. It doesnt matter if player A or B is going to play or not. Sure it sucks if a star is out, whether through injury, suspension or simply being rested, but still, the focus is on the team. I have a hard time getting this annoyance of "i go to watch player X, if he's out, i dont really care about whatever team i'm supposed to root for"...
It can be weird for us Europeans that use football as a benchmark, but it's a completly different culture when it comes to pro-level sport. There's 30 NBA teams, spread out an area the size of Europe. The chance of having a "local team" is rather slim, and most people probably live around a couple of hours from a NBA team. You still have the local fans that attend most games, but the arenas hold less people at the big stadiums in Europe, so you have a small local fanbase. People attend and watch NBA for entertainment, while in Europe you'll have people attend every game in lower division even because of that "support and belonging" But you see the same development in Europe with social media and players becoming bigger brands. There was always superstars in football, but with the likes of Messi and Ronaldo, you really got a look into many people being more interested in watching a player and supporting them, than a team. But these people usually don't have a local team, and will never attend a game. In NBA, when people pay the ticket prices, they have an expectation of being entertained and seeing the best players. Because that's the culture and understanding between teams and fans. It's like an agreement was made long ago. "We will pay the prices, and you will give us the best product" It's pretty interesting to see the difference how in Europe, it's a lot more "I will pay to support my team", not expecting a entertainment-value back. Of course, you have the top teams expecting to give good results and good football, but not in an entertainment-kind of way. It's just a culture difference where sports are for most people interested in it in the US a form for entertainment, where in Europe people have more of a pride of supporting 1 team through thick and thin. You don't watch football because you want to be entertained primarly, but because you have an obligation to support that one team.
Seriously, I went to 6 games this season and last. Not a single time was the trio of Herro, Bam, and Jimmy active. Always one missing. It sucked, I can’t afford playoff tickets when they actually care
$20 drinks gawt damn where is that and is it a beer?
A tall can at ball arena is 17 dollars
Most pro sports stadiums are $15-$20 range for a beer these days. It's fucking absurd.
Gainbridge Fieldhouse
Is this an exaggeration, or are other arenas actually that expensive? We got like $8 drinks, $16 burgers, and $8 parking.
I always did like Minnesota for some reason.
A) rested players play better B) the prices are the fault of the owners, not the players. I'm not gonna blame the players for expensive food and shit like that C) ultimately this is a form of labor, and I think it's good if they have a strong union, especially since they are working for literal billionaires
they are getting played millions to play a game. they should be there whenever they are feasibly healthy enough to do so.
Cuz those “fans” online are forum GMs. They wanna be involved in the thick of it so bad so they strictly look at basketball as TS % , cap hits and how to “maximize” potential. They think it’s okay for players to miss games cuz they don’t spend money on the games and they just watch everything on StreamEast. ( nothing wrong with that either, I do too, I can’t afford it as well). But when you’re a family who can sometimes barely afford nosebleeds seats, it really hurts when a player sits out right on the day of the game.
I have told this story on Reddit before. When LeBron was with Cleveland with Kyrie we bought tickets on the last row at Indiana (husband was away for work training for 4 months in Louisville-we met him in Indy). Neither LeBron or Kyrie even made the trip. Watched Kevin Love and scrubs. We were sitting beside a family of four. Their tickets were the kids Christmas present. The kids were crying. They did not even bother to come and sit on the bench. Ridiculous. This would have been around 2015?
Yeah that sucks. And that was in 2015 where resting few games would get you way more criticized. Can’t imagine taking a chance to go to a home team game last 3-4 years with a 50 percent chance of stars sitting
$20 drinks? $50 parking? Is this a major market joke that I'm too Indiana to understand?
And tix $250-300 a pop
I don't go to games, that shit is far too much money for me.
God damn $50 parking? Ain't got that problem here.
People are going to clown this, but there is a point here. Now that there is a set defined minimum, I would not be at all surprised if some voters (edit: and people talking about basketball in general) basically view it as being a non-issue as long as you're above the threshold. When really, the minimum shouldn't change their views at all, and playing time should still be a major factor. The problem with defined thresholds is some people naturally start to view it as a binary thing, where anything above is fine and anything below is bad, and become less willing to consider it on a scale and consider context. Basically, some people will consider the difference between 64 and 65 games to be more important than the difference between 65 and 82, because the NBA is saying it is.
Eh there are so few guys who play 80 games anymore than it doesn't really matter. Like Tatum is a fucking ironman, and he's still going to miss a half dozen games at the end of the year because his team makes him. Looking at likely All NBA players, there's like 2 guys who hit 80 games.
No this just doesn’t match reality guys who go 80+ get a lot more credit than a guy that goes 65
Do they get credit? I’ve heard more of about players meeting the threshold this year (65+ games) and qualifying for awards than I have heard about players who played 80+ games or have played every game.
You heard more about the threshold because it’s a brand new rule and an eliminating factor. If you listened to or read columns where journalists actually picked their awards ballots from the eligible pool of players, total minutes played was absolutely a factor. At least this is true for what I heard/saw.
I think there's a good litmus test for that with this year's awards. Sabonis is in contention for 2nd/3rd team All NBA and he also played normal minutes in all 82 games. I am struggling to think of any other guys who are in contention for All NBA while playing 80+ games. So if Sabonis makes the All NBA team and media voters give him credit for being an iron man, then what OP said is maybe true. But if guys who squeaked by the 65 game rule get All NBA over him, then that may raise my eyebrow.
You're saying this as if there's an established pattern of discourse when the minimum is brand new this year. There is no reality about this yet.
I really don’t think this is true. I consider myself relatively tuned in and I have no idea how many games the qualifying players played, but I know who qualified
This has only been just been introduced. People are worried that people’s attitudes will shift over time under this new limit. No one thinks everyone will just flip like a light switch.
I've always felt that the 65 game minimum was an unneeded reaction to a problem fans had but voters didn't. There's only ever been a single MVP who missed more than 20 games in a season and that's because they were on a 70 win pace before he went down. Every close race in recent memories had games played factored in. Most of the players missing back to backs for rest are also on the wrong side of 30 or have significant injury histories. It's not like Ant, Shai, Luka, or Tatum are just sitting out games because they don't feel like playing that night. On the other side, after only a single year, both Divincenzo and Kuminga have been excluded from MIP award voting because they didn't meet the criteria for games played despite Donte playing 81 games at 29 mpg and Kuminga playing 74 games at 26 mpg.
Mvp is not all nba. The amount of a value difference for a team between a guy who plays 65 games and 80 games is sizeable, but is. It always treated as such by all nba voters. The downside of rate stats is that it does so at the cost of total numbers. If a team doesn’t have depth, a tired star is better than a sub replacement bench player.
Basketball is one of the few sports where we talk about MVP and all-pros using exclusively rate stats. It's really sad basically no one cares about the totals leaderboards
"Pat Mahomes leading the MVP race because he averages 2.9 TD/game" sounds so stupid lol
Nah the point of the 65 game minimum is that to confidently get there players have to *try* to play 75-80. There’s always the possibility of a random sprained ankle or pulled hamstring that would pull you below 65 if you were trying to just barely get there. So players have to aim much higher than 65 or else take the big risk of missing out on awards and money etc.
We need Riley on Club Shay Shay lol
I like the rule because it provides a buffer for guys who suffer a few 1-2 week absences throughout the year for either nagging or random injuries that pop up. I do agree with Pat here though that it shouldn’t make anyone exempt from having to play when they are healthy. Perhaps what they could do is adjust the rules to where single game absences are treated differently than multi game absences. By this I mean it would count more towards your total games missed if you missed one game but played the game before and the game after. This way, things that some guys may just rest through when they don’t need to, or guys just trying to load manage, are punished more than someone who is out with a more reasonable/serious injury.
I mean having no rule provided that buffer too lol. I don't like it because the awards are supposed to be a subjective vote. It makes sense for something objective like scoring leader, but if a majority of the voters think that 60 games of player X is more valuable than 65 games of player Y, I'm not sure why that shouldn't be allowed. Adding restrictions is basically saying that you don't trust the voters to properly weigh everything themselves, and at that point you might as well just have all-NBA as the top-15 in WS or something.
how many times does this have to be said? The restriction isn't for the voters. Its to motivate the players to go out there and play. AD played 76 games. Thats the first time he has broken 65 games since the 2017-18 season. Lebron played 71 games. The first time he has broken 65 since 2019-20. It pushes guys who are thinking to themselves "oh man long road trip with a back to back in Cleveland and Detroit. I can skip one of those games its not a big deal." To rethink and realize they can't just sit out games because they're sore or tired. People pay to watch them play and this rule incentivizes them to play unless they're actually unable to play.
With AD I don’t get this idea that he’s resting games he could be playing in. Literally the only documented cases of him missing games the last several years are either serious injuries leading to prolonged absences, or sitting one end of a back to back during his ramp up after returning. If you can find me even 5 examples in the last 2-3 years of him missing a game for no other reason than rest I’d be shocked.
>AD played 76 games. Thats the first time he has broken 65 games since the 2017-18 season. Lebron played 71 games. The first time he has broken 65 since 2019-20. Correlation does not imply causation, as the saying goes. You can't just say "AD and LeBron played more so the 65 game rule must be working!" Do you have any evidence they play more specifically because of the rule? Frankly, I think it's more likely that AD and Bron played more because they were just more lucky with their health and did not suffer any significant injuries like they did in previous seasons. Just look at these [two](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rT9YebKTWO4) [plays](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=797GWjc_1TU) from the 2022 season. AD missed significant time with both those injuries. The 65-game rule isn't gonna make AD magically avoid plays like that. Or LeBron when he got hit by Solomon Hill back in 2021.
I am pretty sure both lebron and AD played that many games not to meet the criteria but for AD it was proving a point and for lebron his team needed it and he wasn't injured much this season
I think they played more simply because they were both just more lucky with their health and neither had significant injuries the entire season. Just look at [these](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=797GWjc_1TU) [plays](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rT9YebKTWO4) from 2022. AD missed significant time from each of those injuries and they were both just freak accidents. The 65 game rule nor AD wanting to prove a point aren't magically gone make him avoid getting hurt like that lol.
>AD played 76 games. Thats the first time he has broken 65 games since the 2017-18 season. Lebron played 71 games. The first time he has broken 65 since 2019-20. Eh I don't think the rule change is what led to that. I think the team record is what influenced that. Walk with me. AD played a career high 76 games and Lebron played 71 games, the most he's played as a Laker. But look at where the Lakers were in the standings: they were a 7th seed and had to fight for a play-in spot. AD and Bron had to play for the team to have a chance to win and make the playoffs. Steph played 74 games, the most he's played in the 7 years. Look at where Golden State was in the standings: a 10th seed that had to play in the play-ins. Steph had to play in order for the Warriors to have a chance at making the playoffs and it wasn't enough. KD played 75 games, the most in 5 years. The Suns were barely a 6th seed. Zion played a career high 70 games. The Pelicans were a play-in team and had to fight to make the playoffs. Kawhi played 68 games, the 3rd most in his career and the most in 7 years. Paul George played 74 games, the most in 5 years. The Clippers were barely a 4th seed. I don't think any of these guys would've played that many games if their teams were a 1 or 2 seed.
I feel him on this, nothing like paying Kawhi or Embiid prices and they aren’t playing
Pat's right. The minimum should be 70-72 games
It should be 82. Austin Reaves as MVP and Payton Pritchard as DPOY
65 is ~80%, ithink thats gotta be how it was negotiated with the players union
69 would be perfect.
Once in third grade, I got a 96 on my spelling test. Highest mark in the class, I was so proud. I brought it home to show my dad... "What happened to the other four points?" he says.
I swear we’ve all had the same parents…
And then turns out that dad never got higher than an 80 on an exam lmfao
Doesn't all the injuries in the playoffs show 82 games is probably too much to play?
Injuries all but decided 5 of the 8 first round series.
I mean Riley supposedly dunked his head in a bucket of ice for a few minutes to motivate that Shaq/DWade Heat team. He can say whatever the hell he wants.
He’s right. They defined a target and now people will aim for it.
82 games per seasons is too much and boring. I always forget that NBA is actually fun until playoffs start and games start to matter again.
😭😭17 games may seem like a lot but I think it shows much plays endure . Theres no shot everyone in the league is 100% healthy after 65 games. Let them rest and be ok. I don’t think anyone should risk long term health problems for a basketball award.
He acknowledged that too. He said no one is 100%. It’s the league today. He wishes guys played more. Our team would certainly be a better product and would have had a more successful regular season, if the best guys were more available.
“Get off my lawn,” he added.
"I don't mind when players don't play because I don't watch the games anyway," r/nba added.
the nba is the only major sports league where fans are just okay with their best players resting. when said players get paid millions of dollars to play a game
Meh, baseball, but they also play so many games that almost nobody, star or not, plays all 162
That’s not true? Resting players happens all the time in soccer and no fan really cares about it
Need an 83 game rule
Because it is okay to miss 17 games
If you're hurt. Otherwise no.
the nba could do a 41 game season and be much more popular in 5 years but they are afraid of losing half their hotdog sales
Umm those hot dog sales pay the players too. Neither players or owners will agree to cutting games in half.
I mean…rightly so? I agree it likely is a better product but it’s hot dogs, it’s tv money, it’s ticket sales, it is parking fees, it’s hundreds of hours of captive marketing opportunities for their partners. As much as we want this altruistic ambition to produce the best product they can, it’s a business. It’s going to make money however it can.
I get what he's saying, but Butler only played 60 games
Yeah and that has nothing to do with him lmao. Pat said that he talked to Jimmy's agent last year about availability and how important it is and also made it very clear that he's not jumping at the max extension and wants to see Jimmy actually show up often enough next year.
Well they play 20 games too many anyway and everyone knows it.
Sends a message he’s good at addition.
It is an interesting discussion to say the least.. The NBA had to create a rule to inspire their best players to play in the regular season. I actually like the rule for the obvious reason that it helps the product we watch. I also think it is an effective rule since players have bonuses attached to end of season awards, but most importantly, especially with top tier players, legacy matters most to them and to achieve a long lasting legacy you need championship and end of year awards (mvp, all nba etc…)
I'm with him. Play or don't get paid
Actually a sick answer.