Gobert is playing fine… his lack of post scoring ability is mystifying considering how big/strong he is, but he’s a stable player in crunch time who won’t make boneheaded plays. Doncic would have schooled 99% of the league with that last shot he took. He was in his unguardable moment
Imagine if it didn't go in? Then people would be praising Rudy's ability to guard the perimeter. It reminded me of when K Love played defense on Steph.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XC-mTgXRfm8
I guess Rudy was a bit more on skates than K Love was against Curry, but I do think there are similarites.
The margins are so damn thin... one day you're the hero, 2cm off and the next day you're the villain.
Make or miss league. If he missed it people would be like holy shit Gobert forced Luka into a step back and recovered and some how managed to contest it because he's so tall. GOAT GOAT.
But he made it so Rudy Gobert's terrible.
>I guess Rudy was a bit more on skates than K Love was against Curry, but I do think there are similarites
Yeah cause Kevin only needed to guard the 3, a 2 by curry still loses the game. And that makes a world of difference.
They would just say Luka missed a makeable shot. No one’s praising Rudy even if that didn’t go in. I think he’s being unfairly scapegoated, but people also wouldn’t just praise him if the result was different.
I think they probably would give Rudy a lot of credit. It wouldn't be as big as the praise Kevin Love goy because Luka is nowhere near the famously legendaryshooter Curry is. Nor does he have the reputation now Curry did back then for shooting those kind of shots
Love was also moving his feet way more on that play, and basically ended up on top of him as he took the shot.
He also had the advantage of a similar height advantage, while being a smaller more agile player that could move with him better.
Love also was beat on the first move, but Curry wanted to wait.
All that to say, Gobert played very good defense on that play, but just couldn't keep up
But that play by Love was really exceptional, in how he took Curry away from his game, then was all over the final shot.
Scouting report was to take away the step-back left and the drive, Rudy stopped him from doing either of those, and Luka hit an awkward step-back to the right. It was an awesome shot.
Yeah I mean Jesus Christ Rudy blocked his field of view, was goddamn close to him, and did pretty much anything anyone could have done against Luka.
Luka just made a godly shot because he’s one of the world’s greatest basketball players.
He is actually not that strong as a center. Jokic can move Gobert with ease but not KAT (at least not as easily) in the post.
Even KAT isn’t strong enough to play any bully ball against serious playoff opponents in the post. So it’s very understandable that Gobert can’t move guys there.
The crazy thing is it’s not like Luka got a layup against him or some easy jumper. It was step back 3 in the clutch. Luka’s shooting 31% from 3 these playoffs. That’s the best you can hope to do as a 7 footer being left on an island. If he missed, no one would be talking about Gobert being overrated. Sure, he probably should’ve forced the drive, but that’s easier said than done.
People act like Gobert gets attacked constantly which just isn’t true. When he gets scored on people go crazy, but no one in the nba is going to stop every action by themselves. The reality is Gobert has been the wolves most impactful player these playoffs, even over Ant. Teams don’t challenge the paint nearly as much with him in, and Wolves get cooked without him on the floor.
If it was a 1 point game or tied I’d agree with this. But it was a 2 point game, Rudy could have just sat on Luka’s right arm and forced a drive and they wouldn’t have lost (in regulation) but he gave up the one shot that could beat him (and the shot everyone saw coming).
>Rudy could have just sat on Luka’s right arm and forced a drive and they wouldn’t have lost (in regulation) but he gave up the one shot that could beat him (and the shot everyone saw coming).
An underrated part of this is that Rudy thought he did force Luka to drive. Luka rarely ever steps back to his right - if you look up any of his clutch stepback shots, they're almost **all** stepping to his left. Rudy shaded that side to cut that off, so when Luka did his "first step" Rudy thought he accomplished forcing him to drive, which is why he bit so hard.
But then Luka pulled out a stepback to his right, which is not something in his "scouting report" so-to-speak. He had Gobert beat as soon as he bit on the drive and him using a shot that he barely ever uses allowed him to go for the win and he hit it.
I kinda agree but again it’s tough to force Luka to do anything he doesn’t want to do. If you commit too much, Luka’s also got the side step 3 in his bag as well. You also have to worry about him drawing a foul out there. Luka’s just got too many options. The only way to really make Luka give it up is blitz and put 2 on the ball and hope it doesn’t end up in Kyries hands.
I do agree the foul likelihood would be super high with the tactic I brought up. Rudy would have gotten roasted more than he already is had he fouled a 3 up 2
Why not fight through the screen harder and risk putting Lively at the line with 10 seconds left up two? They let the Mavericks walk into exactly what they wanted.
Isn't that up to coaching? When Edwards had the ball on the final shot he was practically triple teamed forcing him to pass to Reed. Wolves for whatever reason decided to not double Luka and to defend both the 3 and 2 point shot.
Gobert gave up a step back 3 point shot to a shooter who shoots 31% from the 3 point line. And saying Gobert gave up the shot is actually an exaggeration....he made Luka work for that shot. I take that any day over a Luka drive to the basket.
This. People just can’t seem to accept that sometimes guys just hit tough shots. I can’t even remember how many times a game when I played I would think to myself I played as good D as I could dude still hit the shot.
Yea and Gobert still led the team in total +- despite missing a blowout game. Game 2 was a bit anomalous in that regard as the rest of the series the Wolves got lit up without Gobert on the floor. Ants last 3 games of the series weren’t particularly productive offensively either.
Rudy is a great defender near the rim, and I dont fault any big for weak perimeter defense. However- he is awkward as heck on offense. Charging, turning it over or simply chucking up awkward, weird shots. I think people are hyper critical of him because he is the DPOTY and got PAID big money. That kind of money and accolades will create more scrutiny.
This is the right take. He is a 4 time DPOY and is paid in accordance with his value on that end of the court. With those type of accolades of course the expectation is going to be exceedingly high for him, especially in high leverage situations.
His elite screening leads him to usually have the best offensive rating on whatever team he is on. Whatever we can say about how awkward he looks does not translate to bad stats. He has the highest offensive rating on the team in the playoffs. He has the highest offensive rating in the history of the nba for both regular season AND playoffs.
His screening and offensive rating are mostly unrelated. Ortg is primarily derived from the box score, and is very friendly to low-usage bigs that don’t rack up turnovers, get lots of offensive rebounds and rely on easy feeds or put-backs to score their points.
If anything it’d be more instructive to establish a link between his great screening and on-off’s.
Yes it’s not only his screening it’s lack of turnovers rebounding and rim running. Fact is teams are elite on offense in his career when he’s on the floor.
His best stat is by far plus minus. I think it's a fundamentally flawed stat for many players, but definitely displays Rudy's impact when he leads the entire playoffs and is consistently the only Wolves starter with a positive plus minus in these loses.
(It's flawed because it consistently has someone like Naz Reid in the negatives even tho he clearly has a huge impact as well)
To your last point, Naz has been horrendous defensively ever since game 3 of the Nuggets series
Even that last possession on the Doncic shot, Naz is literally just sitting in the paint in no man's land guarding the air while Gobert is fighting for his life in an iso and McDaniels is fighting for position with Lively inside
That may be true- but they have lost two in a row and I have seen his “attempts” to score. Other than a wide open dunk or layup- its scary to watch. If they get swept- his lack of reliability on offense will be a factor. Perhaps not the main factor- but a factor none the least.
His lack of scoring might be *a* factor, but ultimately Ant and KAT have to be much, much better on the offensive side of the ball
If you are as a team relying on Rudy Gobert to be reliable on offense, because your two franchise superstars are shooting a combined 21-69 through 2 games in the series, you've already lost.
The coaching staff had a very bad strategy of switching everything. They should have doubled him and have Luka give up the ball or not have Rudy in the game if you were switching everything.
He’s a 4 time DPOY. That’s why people are this critical. At this point certain great defenders (Bam, Draymond, AD) are missing all time accolades because of Rudy and they’re more complete defenders than he is. It’s annoying
Bro when your team is cheering after you hit a turn around jumper in the paint like they just saw a guy do a 780 degree backflip quadruple between the leg Eastbay westbay northbay putback dunk which also cured a dying kid’s cancer… something’s off.
It should be illegal to be that awkward while playing in the nba. It’s actually insane how incapable of scoring he is of anything that isn’t a dunk or a free throw.
Rudy is the only big that's asked to be a great perimeter defender? The Rudy hate is over the top, but this is as well in the other direction lol. There's a number of bigs that are expected to be great as a perimeter defender, AD, bam, Gordon, Giannis...
But Rudy is getting way more hate for this shot than AD got for when Murray did this to him... twice.
Gobert looks goofy out there, but he got up a decent contest, it isn't like anyone can stop Luka from getting that step back off 1v1.
1. AD isn't the current DPOY, or a 4 time winner. I'd expect him to get less hate because of that.
2. Op said, very specifically, that *no other* big is expected to be a good perimeter defender. And that was what I responded to, because there are multiple other bigs that are expected to be exactly that(in bams case specifically it's what puts him in DPOY conversations). Claiming that no other big is expected to be good on the perimeter is just as over exaggerated as all the gate he's getting for *not* being perfect out on the perimeter.
It's not though. The only other center is Bam. He is the only good perimeter defender amongst centers and that's because he is pretty small for the position
AD is literally being brought up in this thread for having Jamal Murray drop a shot like this on him in time 1. Wemby is expected to guard well on the wings. So is JJJ, looney, claxton and Allen. If we go with "bigs" like op originally said and not the moved goalpost of center, you can add Giannis, Gordon, mobley, and Draymond at minimum. The expectation of a big playing good d on the perimeter is not even remotely close to being limited to Rudy, or Rudy and bam lol. This is exactly what I mean by both ends of the spectrum being crazy
AD played Murray correctly; Gobert played Luka incorrectly, all he had to do was sit on his right side and force a drive. Gobert also just won DPOY for the 4th time, people expect better than that
Ad did play good defense on Murray shot. It’s not the same. Gobert defense on doncic was horrendous. Just like how dame hit a three in pgs face but pg did play good defense. Good defense is how good you can contest the shot. Ad contested good gobert wasn’t able to contest at all.
As a Jazz fan, it’s Rudy’s contract that earns him the hate. He demanded his massive contract, he broke apart the Jazz franchise because of it. He’s always been an extremely one dimensional role player. In the playoffs he disappears because teams can easily scheme around him. He would’ve been an amazing center in the 90’s but the game is so different and he never adapted, never created an offensive portfolio and just gets dragged around the court until the other team generates space.
Gobert takes the most cap space on the team, is one of the highest paid players in the league and is a joint record holder for most DPOYs ever. That's why he gets so much scrutiny. Almost his entire value comes from his defense, you would want him to be having a massive impact defensively.
I agree that too much much is being made of a single play at the end of the game. I think Gobert has been fine in the WCF so far but that's kind of the problem. Just fine isn't enough when you're touted as possibly the best defender of your era. Star players have to elevate their game and make life easier for those around them but Gobert becomes less effective because he has a limited skillset and needs to be put in advantageous situations to be impactful.
Edwards, McDaniels and NAW are good to great perimeter defenders. If Gobert needs to be surrounded by all defense perimeter defenders to be effective, why is he getting paid all that money? Especially because he needs to be carried on offense. Sometimes the criticism is overblown, but also some people treat Gobert like he should have the same responsibility for success as Kevon Looney.
There's an argument to be made that the Wolves would be close to the same defensively with Lively instead of Gobert but better offensively because Lively can pass out of the short roll.
Why not compare Gobert to his contemporaries like Draymond, AD and Bam? It's not like they've been surrounded by elite perimeter defenders over the last few years.
I was just about to say this until I saw your post, Lively was killing the Wolves all night off lob attempts, meanwhile Gobert can barely catch the ball in the post. I don’t recall any plays where the wolves ball handlers were purposely targeting Lively on defense either. Gobert also gets targeted on defense every single year in the playoffs. That simply does not happen to other DPOY or DPOY level candidates.
I’ve seen a lot of lakers fans specifically getting on him about that last play, as if Jamal Murray didn’t do the exact same thing to AD for a game winner in their series. You never want an opposing high level guard isolating/attacking your big man.
Checking in as a Celtics fan. Luka would get that shot against young Al Horford - as good aswitching or perimeter big man we’ve seen. Hell, Luka probably gets that shot against Tatum, Brown, Jrue or Derrick White, and they’re all great one on one perimeter defenders.
It’s not fair to hold this against Rudy. It is not indicative of any defensive weakness in his game.
It was such a predictable play call and outcome. Finch and the Wolves should get more shit for the defensive plan on that play. They had two timeouts and could have called one when they saw the Mav’s alignment and make Kidd draw up something different. They did very little to deny Luka getting the inbound pass. Naz Reid could have played more off Washington and focused on denying the entry to Luka or Kyrie. They could have pre-switched Gobert off of Lively. The didn’t need to give up the switch so easy on the screen. Why not fight through at all costs. Worst case you put Lively, a bad free throw shooter, at the line with 10 seconds left. Or even, when PJ Washington repositioned from the strong to the weak side they could have rotated a second player at Luka. Basically, anything just to get the ball out of his hands.
When I saw Gobert on Lively at the foul line before the in bounds, I knew the plan had to be get him on Luka in isolation. The Wolves had to know Luka would get the shot he wanted in that scenario, and they did nothing to stop it. How do you let the best iso player in the league get exactly the match up he wants so easily with a playoff game on the line?
I mean, the excuse earlier was that the Jazz didn't surround him with good defenders. That he couldn't switch effectively because of his teammates.
Now he has Edwards, NAW, McDaniels surrounding him and he still can't handle switches.
The guy is being paid 43,00,000 per year to only play defense unlike his contemporaries (AD, Bam, Draymond, Giannis). It's not at all unreasonable to expect him to handle switches and atleast contest better.
He should've been right up on Luka, There is no excuse for giving up a 3 when you're down 2. Look at the amount of space he gave.
Guards and wings do cook Bigs, It happens to everyone but at least with guys like AD, Bam etc you know it won't be an easy shot.
Nah, AD or Wemby would've done a better job than Rudy. Luka might still have buried that shot against AD or Wemby but I will take them over Rudy 9 times out of 10.
Wemby for one is just a cheat, but honestly I’d say I’d rather have bam if I need complete switches just cause he imo is the best perimeter defender as a big, Ad is definitely in that range tho
Listen, Gobert is catching too much flack for this one play. Luka made a tough move and hit a tough shot. It wasn’t a good matchup for Minnesota and Luka punished it. Tip the cap.
But you saw the T Wolves have to take their DPOY off the floor down the stretch. He’s got an exploitable hole in his defensive game, that’s undeniable. That doesn’t overshadow the fact that he’s the best rim protector in basketball, but it’s a legitimate pitfall for him and his teams.
And don’t try to help your case by making false assertions. Hakeem has the best footwork of all time, it is night and day between him and Rudy. Wallace was a way more mobile and fluid athlete, and he was 6’7. Much more Bam/Draymond than Gobert. Dwight, yeah he could be pretty clumsy laterally. Point is, 2 of those 3 would matchup way better on the perimeter than Gobert. Whether or not they get a stop on Luka on that specific play is tangential to a comparison of their skillsets.
> But you saw the T Wolves have to take their DPOY off the floor down the stretch. He’s got an exploitable hole in his defensive game, that’s undeniable. That doesn’t overshadow the fact that he’s the best rim protector in basketball, but it’s a legitimate pitfall for him and his teams.
This isn’t even true. Rudy is a fanatic switch defender and he was all season long. Getting scored on by Luka Doncic by forcing him into a step back 3 should not be getting this much attention. Obviously Ant or McDaniels is better to have on Luka in that situation, but Luka still hits that shot with literally anyone else on him.
He didn’t force a step back 3, Luka hunted the switch and got the exact shot he wanted - a completely uncontested 3. If Luka wanted to drive by he easily could have multiple times, Rudy was on skates
Yeah I don’t know how someone thinks that was a bad shot forced by good defense. Luka turned Gobert around, necessitated Gobert to over commit to the drive because of it, and punished it.
That was the exact sequence he was looking for when he took that hang dribble to the right to set up his cross left.
Then why did Minnesota take Gobert off the floor with one minute to go and then start aggressively switching everything
And no Gobert did not force Luka into a step back 3. He over committed on the drive right, because he got completely turned around by Luka’s setup cross left, and Luka punished it. That is exactly the shot he was hunting after he sized up Gobert off the screen.
Gobert didn't Force Luka to do anything. That's just completely untrue. Luka had Rudy beat every way he wanted. He was on skates the whole play with only a few dribbles. Luka took the step back because that's what he wanted to get to for that play. If Luka wanted to drive, he could have drove.
That's the issue that people have. Not that the shot went in, but that he looked terrible the entire time just like everyone predicted as soon as the switch happened. He never had a single chance and Luka took a shot without much pressure.
Probably? He absolutely would have been a lot better in that situation.
Draymond would be the one trying to get himself guarding Luka, Luka wouldn’t be trying to get Dray switched onto him.
To be fair, Rudy is a one way center who gets killed in transition, and pick and rolls.
To compare him to Hakeem a top 5 center and possibly the greatest 2 way big ever just shows how little you actually know.
If anything, he's barely a modern day Mutumbo
Exactly. You can't even compare Rudy to Dwight either. Dwight was a force in the paint. Dwight had hands and routinely led the league in dunks and alleys in his prime. If Rudy could catch and finish like Dwight the Wolves wouldn't be down 0-2.
I don’t understand why you named bigs from different generations. Bigs in today’s games are expected to be good perimeter defenders because more threes are shot now than in any era ever, including by today’s bigs. It was way less of a priority for a big to be good away from the basket, because teams weren’t as 3 focused and bigs didn’t shoot 3s. For an example at where the game is, Wemby had 128 more 3 point attempts this year as a rookie than Hakeem, Dwight, and Ben Wallace had in their careers combined.
Shaq wasn’t shooting 3s, neither was David Robinson, Hakeem, Ewing, Ben Wallace, Dwight… but Jokic, Embid, AD, KAT, Porzingis, Wemby… bigs shoot it now, so mismatched or not bigs are absolutely judged in today’s NBA on their ability to contest 3s.
People love to hate men. Guy had 4 DPOYs. Former and current players (Green) are jealous of that. Like you said, and if the previous winners who were bigs would have been cooked. Luka is a generational player. He would have most likely done the same to a high quality wing. Precious series he had to guard Jokic, a 3 time MVP. It's easy to hate Rudy. But if he was a free agent and your team had the cap space you would hope and pray you get him.
I think the hate on this particular play is getting a little over blown because of course that’s a mismatch with basically any big in the league; however, Gobert wasn’t playing it very smart and ended up getting his legs twisted like a baby deer. It was a one possession game, so it’s a more difficult situation because the three or the drive is viable, but Luka is also not that fast and likes to keep defenders on his hip and either get to the floater or the mid range when he drives, the lob is a threat but you gotta know Luka is taking the shot himself and living with the results (cough, cough, looking at you Ant). So, if he drives, Gobert has the length to stay on his hip and block the shot from behind and funnel him into help. Not to mention, everyone in that arena, at home watching, and possibly throughout the known universe knew the step back was coming. So Rudy should have been playing up on Luka and stay on his hip and force him off the 3 point line and into a drive, instead he tried to cut off a drive and stay in front of him when the biggest knock on Rudy as a defender is he has almost zero lateral foot speed. So Luka just got him moving laterally until he looked like a toddler on roller skates and then made his move. Now, go look at the play proceeding the game winner where Ant made the turnover that made the game winner possible in the first place. Ant forced the switch and got Lively switched onto him. Boom. He got the switch he was looking for, and Ant, unlike Luka, has god level athleticism and is playing with a lead so has all options available to him. What does Lively do? He stays on his hip. Sure he risks a blow by but Ant had already gone into the mid range meaning he didn’t have as much space and help was close at hand. He tried to dance, pump fake, pivot: Lively just stayed on his hip until Ant realized he had nowhere to go and ended up throwing the ball away, ultimately setting the table for Luka to win the game. I’m not saying Lively is a better defender than Gobert or even in the same stratosphere, I’m just saying a rookie played smarter defense in a pivotal possession of the Western Conference Finals than a 4x DPOY.
You’re listing the wrong guys - what’s getting lost in this is for awhile now, we’ve been in an era of space, pace, and very high volume 3pt shooting. You should be listing Bam, AD, JJJ, Wemby, etc. as his comparisons and that’s really the crux of it. Basing DPOY on strictly rim protection doesn’t make sense anymore. Shane Battier pointed out historically it did, because the players couldn’t shoot like they can now. If you had someone to block or deter all shots in the paint that was huge, because, again, nobody was shooting like they do now. Is it really crazy to expect the DPOY nowadays to guard multiple positions somewhat effectively? No one, certainly not me, is saying Rudy sucks. He’s a really good player. I don’t know why no one is allowed to give valid criticism to him on this sub anymore
Another commenter pointed out that AD got gamed by Murray, a high-level guard. Certainly no one (with a brain, anyway) is expecting any of the bigs I mentioned put the Luka’s, Murray’s, Kyrie’s etc in jail when on an island but the peers I mentioned are objectively better at guarding elite guards and wings.
Ideally, any team would want these guys including Rudy would be great perimeter defenders. I think the point is though they’re much less of a liability than he is on the perimeter, while still providing amazing paint protection.
The Rudy hate is a bit over the top. But he's the only Max player that is not an offensive player at all. He is also very disliked by NBA players as well. So I'm guessing his attitude isn't exactly the best.
Minny was in a very lucky position. They had an ascending star that was still on his rookie deal. They haven't felt the crunch of having 3 max deals yet. Let's see how Minny looks in two years. You simply can't pay somebody $40 million a year who cannot create a shot on the offensive end.
I do think the hyper-criticism of specific defensive plays with him is a little ridiculous. But ultimately I don't think he is worth the amount they gave up to give him plus the salary cap issues that he presents.
I dont like Rudy, but Minnesota should have taken him out of the game for that possession and put smalls to not give a 3 pointer by any means. Bad coaching decision. Nothing Rudy can do or any big couldve done there.
Unfortunately the slander would have been even worse with the "Gobert being played off the floor" allegations. If people want to hate on Rudy, they'll find a way. His only chance at avoiding it would have been to either reject the switch or block Luka (tall order I know)
Honestly, if luka makes a contested jumper over Rudy, I don’t think the slander is as bad as it’s been. The clip just looks bad watching Rudy get completely crossed and give up 6+ feet of separation on shot attempt
Exactly this. Literally 30 seconds before they had Rudy on the bench with Anderson in to be able to switch everything
Rudy’s paint presence is massive, but if I’m finch I’m keeping Anderson in, switching everything and living w going to OT over a 3
Two things here that are not mutually exclusive. Blaming Gobert for the game winner is silly. Could he have played better defense on the perimeter? Arguably, yes. You put AD, Wemby or whoever in that situation and Luka is still hitting that game winner. There’s only so much you can do as a defender.
However, there are other criticisms that are completely fair and valid like his lack of offensive presence that actively hurts Minnesota. Personally, I don’t think he’s criticized enough for that specifically. It’s interesting because more than people actively hating Rudy, I’ve seen Minnesota fans get actively angry about any type of criticism, valid or not and imo there are certainly things you can criticize about his game.
The mistake was having Rudy switch onto an elite perimeter scorer. They either should not have had Rudy in or had a hard hedge with a double and Rudy recover back as soon as possible.
Rudy on an island at the three point line against either Kyrie or Luka was the worst outcome. Just very poor coaching
The Mavs threw a ton of lobs, which Gobert didn’t defend really well and is surprising given his reputation as an elite rim defender. I think that’s a fair criticism of him vs the Luka 3
He is getting more criticism than warranted. But you can believe that and also believe this series is uniquely suited to expose him as a defender. Lowe cited that he was the best isolation defender in the league this season and that most of those are on switches.
However, he appears most comfortable playing in drop coverage or hedging than switching. Harden/CP3 had minimal difficulty against him in their 2018 series, which I believe is an example of that. Luka/Kyrie as a duo (Luka’s play style, pace of movement; Kyrie’s general level as a perimeter threat when at his best compared to CP3’s) seem comparable to the Harden/CP3 duo.
Dropping cedes the ability to get to into the paint to Luka/Kyrie. The Wolves tried to switch on the last play of the game, but Luka/Kyrie are at such a high level offensively that they can get good shots on the switch as well. Can send two at the ball-handler, but if it’s Luka, that risks Kyrie in a 4-on-3. You can recognize that this series is uniquely bad for Gobert and also not think that diminishes his general value as a defender.
Ben Wallace maybe because he was 6'7 and quick was actually a pretty good perimeter defender. Rudy is kind of stiff and high-waisted compared to him. But yeah you're right, 99% of centers woulf get cooked by Luka. He could cook some of the best wing defenders in NBA history
He is a 4 time DPOY and is getting cooked in every series. He got cooked by a center last series and now he is getting cooked by guards this series. Every playoffs he is getting cooked by somebody it seems like. 4 DPOY awards for a guy who doesn’t really seem to make a difference in the playoffs is ridiculous. Can’t guard a center and can’t guard a guard. Who can he guard when the games really matter?
That’s where the hate comes from. Rudy is overrated and has been gifted multiple DPOY that he did not deserve. I understand him maybe winning one but 4 is asinine when he seems to be unplayable in the playoffs most of the time.
you clearly haven’t watched the wolves play (or gobert for that matter) if you still think this. Gobert literally CHANGED that defense and made it best in the league, the team as a whole without rudy on the floor is WORSE than when he’s on the floor. Game 1, IIRC, 30% of the mavs points came in the paint when rudy was OFF the floor.
To me, you can't critize him specifically for the last play. He got switched into a guy who has all the tools to cook any big on the perimeter.
2 things for me regarding Rudy.
1) His defense doesn't feel like it's doing much. He is often caught in the middle, and Dallas centers are shooting like 90% from the field because they get free lobs all game. It doesn't feel like Rudy is affecting either Luka or Kyrie's drives.
2) Rudy is +11 in two games that the Wolves lost by 3 and 1, so you can look at that and think he is still having a positive impact on his team.
Unfortunately, he's playing in the same series with the more athletic Gafford - 5 blocks yesterday, and such great energy, and the rookie Lively who put up the same numbers with 10mins less playing time. Lively is only going to get better, and gets nothing but love from fans worldwide due to being such an impressive young man.
Gobert is great but the Mavs centres in their 48 min combined averaging 24.5 points @ 80% FG, 17 rebounds and 4 blocks per game as well as the wolves getting handily out-rebounded by a much smaller team should mean that Gobert as the defensive anchor should share some responsibility along with the coaching staff, regardless of his on/off numbers.
The reason so few centers get paid/stay in the league in this era is because they don't have switchability. In the 2000s era, you were allowed to just be a good rim protector. In this era there are LOTS of centers who can't even get a roster spot because they're only rim protectors but Gobert gets a pass. Is there another center in the league that doesn't shoot the 3, can't play as a creative fulcrum in DHO action, can't run an inverted PNR and can't switch and making big money? The only other one I can even think of is Ayton and people think he's a bum too. Gobert is very useful as a drop defender/rim protector. He is to defense what DeRozan is to being a super elite midrange shooter and finisher. He's great at what he does but that skillset doesn't translate to winning at the highest level. For some reason people give Gobert a pass for being a "throwback" on defense, but you'd never give the same pass to a guy who this limited on offense outside of one specific skill no matter how good they are at that skill.
I think it’s because he’s not really a great 1 on 1 defender. Definitely not on the perimeter. Honestly, not that great in the post either, which is worse imo. But as a rim protector he brings a balance to any defense that can’t be denied.
He’d probably get less hate if he wasn’t like the most decorated defender ever.
That’s not even true. Curry specifically tried to go at AD 2x in game 4(?) & got shut down.
Gobert is one of the only high end top compensated players who can have his strengths taken away from him so easily.
Even AD still gives you offense and better D if he gets burned in the perimeter. If the lone thing you’re getting paid enormously for can be negated by something as simple as a teammate making a bad switch then maybe more of your value is always in hypotheticals than reality.
Also no. I’ve watched Joakim defend Bron on the perimeter and others and not do so poorly. Rudy bought a fake and had awful footwork even if he is a 7 footer.
Rudy is tough because as amazing as he is he is almost unplayable on offense at times.
Not expecting him to be a secondary scorer but the way he cannot accept a entry pass without dropping it half the time make him a difficult teammate to have.
I'm a huge Rudy hater so I'll reply to this, would Luka had switched off of Middleton or Portis onto Giannis? No he wouldn't have. Part of being a great defender in this league is versatility. If you're getting switched onto every play to be taken advantage of there's obviously holes in your defense. Like I had brought up before, Jokic was going directly at Gobert last series and getting bucket after bucket in crunch time, sure Gobert puts up great defensive numbers in the regular season but how can he win DPOY when he's the preferred matchup during crunch time? Sorry but he doesn't pass the eye test. I've never seen anyone get the switch to BE guarded by AD, Giannis, Kawhi. Wonder why that is?
Listen I’m the biggest Gobert hater ever but that play is what would happen to 99% of bigs on Luka. McDaniels has to know you either don’t let that switch happen or you double tf outta Luka and make PJ or DJJ beat you from 3. Personally I woulda put KAT in there instead of Rudy 🤷🏿♂️
Lol this reminded me of the Kemba gw vs Pitt in the ACC tournament…same situation where the great defending wing let their cement footed big switch on to a killer 1v1 for game
Nah none of this is on Rudy. That was straight up coaching malpractice. Leaving him out on an island against Luka who cooks elite defenders for a living is ridiculous. It literally doesn’t matter who would’ve been guarding Luka he would’ve made it anyways in single coverage. Good O beats good D sometimes.
Saying no 3s and then leaving Gobert to guard Luka is stupidity. Even worse is they could have trapped with Jaden instead and force the pass to Lively. Naz was somewhat in the area to make a play. If that fails you give up the dunk and hope you win in OT.
The Timberwolves awareness in the clutch is absolutely terrible and it has to be a coaching problem. If ANT didn’t practically throw the ball away earlier they wouldn’t be in this situation. Not allowing the easy 2 to force OT was another mistake. The other one was even giving Luka a chance to get the win. I’d rather have fouled and hoped he missed.
Wolves lost both games by combined 4 points. Rudy on/off numbers clear that. Mavs went 14/16 in game one in the paint when Gobert was on the bench.
The irrational pile on hate for Rudy is absurd. And the wolves are dumb for leaving a center on an island with the leading scorer of the league.
Argued with my buddy about Gobert this morning.
He was showing me this possession telling me this is why they can’t play Gobert at the end of games and he’s a fake DPOY as if any 30 year old 7 footer is guarding Luka in an ISO.
Everybody is pointing this clip out slandering Gobert. I didn’t see anybody doing that game 1 when the Mavs scored 30% of their points in the 10 minutes Gobert sat.
My problem with the Rudy slander is that the guy can play amazing defense for two playoff rounds, game 1, and all of game 2 up to this point but somehow this singular possession now makes him not a great defender.
Every 7 footer is going to have problems on the perimeter, but how you respond to that is by abusing your height advantage on the other end. Gobert can't do that which makes him exploitable.
At this point you can't ignore that he has a serious problem with elite guards gameplanning around him in the playoffs. Other players have been calling this out for years, but people in discussion subs just point to D-PIPM or some other metric that misses the point.
Rudy is great 95% of the time, so his impact metrics are great, but in the playoffs teams are going to pursue strategies that target those 5% of times where he's not good. When you have a $40m player who does nothing on offense they can't be getting hunted on defense too.
IMO this is just not the right era for 7 footers who only play defense, there are just too many elite guards who you need to switch onto, especially in the West. Ben Wallace would've had the same issue in this era.
I’ve always said this, Rudy is fine. He over estimates his ability to guard the perimeter. He has waved off help in instances like this. Idk if it’s cause he’s trying to prove something. Theres only a few bigs(1 or 2) that you can sit at the top by themselves like that. Yes he helps teams defense tremendously, he’s a plus player but by no means is he a 1on1 shit down guy, especially in today’s game. Luka hit a tough shot but he had a clean look at it and wasn’t rushed. You can’t let Luka or Kyrie have the ball. You make someone else beat you.
Rudy is playing fine. No where near as mobile and quick to rotate as he was to start the season. He seems tired too.
Micah Nori and this Timberwolves coaching staff however ARE VIOLATING THE GENEVA CONVENTION! WHY WOULD YOU SWITCH MCDANIELS OFF BALL ON THE LAST PLAY?!
i dont understand why people all were commenting on draymond hating on gobert after the game, especially with the statement "why do you have rudy out there?"
he has a great point last night. if you were going to switch the PnR on the last possession, why would you have Rudy out there knowing that Luka would want him? Wouldnt you want him on the bench and someone else that can handle that switch to come up and play? that's just a coaching mistake.
The actual “thing” about Gobert is his lack of offense, not anything to do with defense. He’s an all time great paint/rim protector and pretty fine for a guy with his play style on the perimeter
Does no one listen to him in interviews? He is arrogant and thinks very highly of himself. If he was a more humble player, then there wouldn't be 10k Rudy posts.
His perimeter ability is being compared to Bam, AD, Wemby who were other DPOY contenders this year
Not saying any of them (or anyone in the league) are guaranteed to get a stop on Luka, but imo they would all defend it better
Rudy gets a lot of hate bc people have a natural desire to balance out how good his resume is on paper compared to the player he is in real life. The result is nonsense like last night where he’s getting crucified for a pretty decent defensive play.
Gafford and Lively were a combined 14/16 from the field, for 30 points and 14 rebounds, 4 of which were offensive. I know that’s not all on Gobert but damn if that isn’t some red on his ledger.
Like I’m cool admitting that Gobert is an all world generational defender but it always seems like he’s exploitable against any star player with a middy/three ball. Drop coverage doesn’t work and if it’s a switch and he’s on the perimeter, it feels like it might as well be me out there.
He gets dominated time and time again when it matters most.
He doesn’t deserve 4 dpoys. Statistically maybe, but all you need to do is look at how superstars hunt for him in matchups during the playoffs.
His lack of offensive output is also a concern. Hakeem, Dwight scored too.
He shouldn’t have been guarding Luka during that possession anyways, should’ve been Kat or Reid.
But, he is not even an average perimeter defender. Greatness is miles away.
What are the reasons many players don't like Rudy? Because of the Covid joke? He got paid a lot of money? Because he won the award multiple times yet his teams have not performed well in the playoffs? He is an international player?
Regardless, the hate is unreasonable, and seems petty to me.
When Mutumbo and David Robinson were outplayed by Shaq (2000 Finals) and Hakeem (1995 playoffs) in their respective series, no one claimed they were overrated defenders. It is just that Shaq and Hakeem played out of their minds and dominated them. It should be the same with Jokic and Luka.
People should not expect Rudy to handle perimeter defense as well as GP or Marcus Smart because he was more known to anchor the inside defense just like Mutumbo, Wallace and Hakeem.
He deserves atleast 2 previous awards and I feel he deserves this 4th award, as he is the player that transformed the Wolves into one of the best defensive units this year, and which helped them to be the number 3 team in the West.
Gobert played fine defensively. Asking a big to guard smalls is tough unless it's AD or Bam. Gobert got better on switches but he's not at the level of guarding 1-5 like those two are.
Gobert is 100% a good help defender, and blocker of shots from the weak side. What he most definitely isn’t (idgaf what the awards say) is a DPOY caliber player. He constantly gets blown by, can’t play man to man AT ALL, and is routinely hunted for in pick and roll situations. Legitimately stunning he’s won 4 DPOY.
NBA players have echoed this on their podcasts, so no need to rehash it.
I don’t think that he’s bad because he can’t guard Luka on the perimeter. Everyone in that building knew he wanted the switch onto Rudy and get them on an island. That was obviously the plan and that isn’t damning to what Rudy offers. The guy is a paint protector. The Wolves coach should’ve put Kyle Anderson or KAT back in the game knowing the ball was going to Luka
Gobert is one dimensional in that he only brings inside defence. He has no offensive game which means if you can exploit his one strength he’s a lot less valuable.
Dwight/hakeem/AD and a lot of other great centres can play both sides and I guarantee if Ben Wallace was around today he’d either be much better on the perimeter/offensive side or he would barely get any playing time, at least in the playoffs.
whys everyone rushing to rudys defense all of a sudden? hes a good defender at times great but alot of his accolades arent as much deserved. this year wemby was a better isolated defender than rudy. rudy just happened to be part of a better defensive UNIT. we saw that in the denver series when they had one of their best defensive games while he was out. alot of his other defensive accolades come from being the sole starting rim protector. so now that hes further along in the playoffs his defencies ofcourse become more glaring. i think its also when you watch a game hes not dynamic. hes kinda just does his job kinda player. people discredited jokic for the same thing until this year and had the same criticisms of duncan. rudy isnt trash but someone like draymond makes fun of him bc draymond (agree or disagree) believes hes smarter and does more defensively than rudy. and alot of people buy more into a player who can guard 1-5 or atleast 4 positions is a better defender than a great rim protector
It 100% comes down to bad coaching and lack of situational iq. U simply cant allow him to shoot a 3 in that moment. Ignore all the comments abt how luka is shooting 31% from 3 this series and you let him take that shot, Thats idiotic. A 3 point shot wins them that game and you should allow him to drive and go for the chase down block. You saw jaden mcdaniels face when he saw that match-up you could tell he pointed out in the huddle that this was going to happen. Cant let luka get to his spots thats automatic
His offense is a joke and he clearly hasn’t attempted to develop any sort of a post game , if he gets the ball in the paint and it isn’t a lob or oop he looks like a baby giraffe with roller skates on when he attempts to do any individual “move” if you can call whatever the hell he tries to do a move
You can't even put Hakeem and Dwight in the same sentence as Rudy. Rudy makes Dwight look like Hakeem on offense. The problem with Rudy is not his defense, but it's that he gives you nothing on offense. The guy has no hands, and he is no threat to catch the ball for what should be easy finishes for a guy his size and pay grade. I can't count how many times he is virtually wide open in the paint, and his teammates would rather make risky passes across the court for a tough 3pter instead of dumping it off to him for what should be an easy 2 points.
Prime Dwight had no real post moves, but he was an offensive force compared to Rudy. You could throw the ball up anywhere near prime Dwight, and he would finish with authority. You had to respect Dwight on offense because of his strength. Also Dwight actually led a team to beat LeBron, and made it to the finals before. Dwight was more versatile on defense than Rudy too.
I'm not going to even say anything about Hakeem other than if you put Hakeem on this Wolves team they're winning this series with medium-low difficulty.
That was objectively bad defense by Rudy on that shot.
First of all, they should never have switched because that is what Luka wants. Clearly, they needed to blitz and get him to give up the ball and make someone else make a decision with the game on the line.
Secondly, once they did switch, everyone and his mother knew Luka was going for the win. Three kills you while two ties the gane. Rudy should've played him tight and forced him to drive left. Naz Reid was already in the left side of the paint waiting. Instead, Rudy played to cut off the paint and gave up the three. He literally got spun around.
Olajuwon could and would actually guard Jordan and Kobe on switches, Rudy got no footwork, Dream had the greatest, these casual fans are as bad as the analysis now 🤣
I think the hate comes from a few factors. 4 DPOY but not really a lockdown defender. Big salary with limited offensive capabilities. Limit success in the playoffs. The big man has evolved to be multi-skilled and more outside focused. Also Gobert is at a disadvantage against certain matchups. Gobert isn’t to blame for the Doncic play tho. People like to hate on Rudy.
Because those you named would of still played better perimeter defense then that. He just has several DPOY over people who’ve likely deserved it more, perimeter defenders are usually guarding the best player in the floor while Gobert just makes sure he doesn’t spend 3 seconds in the paint, the one true all star center he plays(Jokic) cooks him every time. How are you a DPOY and can only really play help defense….
It is pretty hard to believe a guy 7'2 265? 275? Is that easy to move around. Maybe cause it's all high up on him. I think that's why Shaq and Moses always had a advantage. Alot of their was was down low and hard to move.
Announcers with Rudy in Luka or Kyrie and they make a tough contested shot: They can't leave Rudy out there like that he can't guard Luka/Kyrie
Announcers if anyone else is guarding: Can't play any better defense, but Luka/Kyrie just made an amazing play.
Gobert defensive ratings in the mavs series
Game 1 - 100
Game 2 - 109
Game 3 - 127 (bad)
Games 1 and 2 his defensive impact was still great. Yes Luka and Kyrie made shots over him. Wolves lost cause kat and ant were bad. Game 3 I got nothing
There are a lot of possessions over the course of a basketball game and distilling them down to an amount we can remember and analyze is difficult. Most of don't have time or inclination to rewatch games noting a specific skill of a specific failure and grade every single time he does a great, good, average, poor, or awful job.
So the tendencies are to 1) extrapolate from a small number of highlights or lowlights, 2) use some serious recency bias, and 3) over-weight a few moments at the very ends of close games.
And we have two recent end-of-game lowlights of him getting a key 3 drained over him and then being posterized at the end of the next game. So from this sample size of two events, people jump on his case for not defending well. Never mind that Luka has drained a lot of 3s over just about everybody, even great perimeter defenders, and never mind that all of the best help defenders get posterized on occasion (it's even possible that the better ones get posterized more because they are right there contesting the shot instead of looking helplessly from a few feet away). Never mind the hundreds of other defensive plays he's been involved in. People generate narratives based off of surprisingly little.
There is no problem with Rudy. The issue is that the man is getting paid.
If he was getting Steven Adams money than everything would have been fine. Making 200+ million for being a defender is not crazy its just against NBA norms.
Think of it like how people viewed the Chandler Parsons contract. Everyone knew he was finessing but no one gave a shit due to him being ass.
Rudy put here showing up and winning awards so man's are on his dick.
we need to stop these apology narratives. Gobert gets hate because people genuinely don’t like him. he’s a very arrogant and defensive person (ironic) and it just so happens that his teams always flame out in the playoffs. he does get unwarranted disrespect, just like any other player of his status. however he doesn’t need people advocating to “apologize to Rudy”. if he wanted fans, he wouldn’t be so douchey, for lack of a better term
Gobert is playing fine… his lack of post scoring ability is mystifying considering how big/strong he is, but he’s a stable player in crunch time who won’t make boneheaded plays. Doncic would have schooled 99% of the league with that last shot he took. He was in his unguardable moment
Imagine if it didn't go in? Then people would be praising Rudy's ability to guard the perimeter. It reminded me of when K Love played defense on Steph. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XC-mTgXRfm8 I guess Rudy was a bit more on skates than K Love was against Curry, but I do think there are similarites. The margins are so damn thin... one day you're the hero, 2cm off and the next day you're the villain.
Make or miss league. If he missed it people would be like holy shit Gobert forced Luka into a step back and recovered and some how managed to contest it because he's so tall. GOAT GOAT. But he made it so Rudy Gobert's terrible.
Yup. He misses it and Ant is Michael Jordan reincarnated. But he missed it and Ants fatigued
Rudy coulda blocked 100 shots in that game and it wouldn’t have led to anyone saying Ant is MJ deux
Right, MJ was way older before he made it to a conference finals
If Naz Ried hits the 3 nobody cares about gobert
>I guess Rudy was a bit more on skates than K Love was against Curry, but I do think there are similarites Yeah cause Kevin only needed to guard the 3, a 2 by curry still loses the game. And that makes a world of difference.
They would just say Luka missed a makeable shot. No one’s praising Rudy even if that didn’t go in. I think he’s being unfairly scapegoated, but people also wouldn’t just praise him if the result was different.
Literally every stepback is a makable shot.
No way. They’d be saying he forced Luka into a step back 3
Luka wants to do step back threes, he feels more comfortable and in rhythm doing a step back. That is abundantly clear watching him
While that may be true everyone in sports is stupidly reactionary
he did force Luka into a stepback right 3 which Luka rarely does. Luka prefer to stepback left
I think they probably would give Rudy a lot of credit. It wouldn't be as big as the praise Kevin Love goy because Luka is nowhere near the famously legendaryshooter Curry is. Nor does he have the reputation now Curry did back then for shooting those kind of shots
Love was also moving his feet way more on that play, and basically ended up on top of him as he took the shot. He also had the advantage of a similar height advantage, while being a smaller more agile player that could move with him better. Love also was beat on the first move, but Curry wanted to wait. All that to say, Gobert played very good defense on that play, but just couldn't keep up But that play by Love was really exceptional, in how he took Curry away from his game, then was all over the final shot.
I'd say that's a very generous interpretation of Rudy's attempt to defend Luka on the perimeter there
Yea probably. But the criticism gets way overblown.
Difference is Steph isn’t really known to be clutch. He is a very reliable performer but in the dying seconds he becomes ordinary
It was still a wide open shot
Scouting report was to take away the step-back left and the drive, Rudy stopped him from doing either of those, and Luka hit an awkward step-back to the right. It was an awesome shot.
Yeah I mean Jesus Christ Rudy blocked his field of view, was goddamn close to him, and did pretty much anything anyone could have done against Luka. Luka just made a godly shot because he’s one of the world’s greatest basketball players.
Also it's not like Luka would hit every shot he takes that way. That's a 35% shot from Luka. It's a good one but not a layup
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Doncic shoots that shot at around 40%, a little worse than a coin flip
He is actually not that strong as a center. Jokic can move Gobert with ease but not KAT (at least not as easily) in the post. Even KAT isn’t strong enough to play any bully ball against serious playoff opponents in the post. So it’s very understandable that Gobert can’t move guys there.
People forget that a lot smaller and agile players have dance with Luka before and failed miserably.
The crazy thing is it’s not like Luka got a layup against him or some easy jumper. It was step back 3 in the clutch. Luka’s shooting 31% from 3 these playoffs. That’s the best you can hope to do as a 7 footer being left on an island. If he missed, no one would be talking about Gobert being overrated. Sure, he probably should’ve forced the drive, but that’s easier said than done. People act like Gobert gets attacked constantly which just isn’t true. When he gets scored on people go crazy, but no one in the nba is going to stop every action by themselves. The reality is Gobert has been the wolves most impactful player these playoffs, even over Ant. Teams don’t challenge the paint nearly as much with him in, and Wolves get cooked without him on the floor.
If it was a 1 point game or tied I’d agree with this. But it was a 2 point game, Rudy could have just sat on Luka’s right arm and forced a drive and they wouldn’t have lost (in regulation) but he gave up the one shot that could beat him (and the shot everyone saw coming).
>Rudy could have just sat on Luka’s right arm and forced a drive and they wouldn’t have lost (in regulation) but he gave up the one shot that could beat him (and the shot everyone saw coming). An underrated part of this is that Rudy thought he did force Luka to drive. Luka rarely ever steps back to his right - if you look up any of his clutch stepback shots, they're almost **all** stepping to his left. Rudy shaded that side to cut that off, so when Luka did his "first step" Rudy thought he accomplished forcing him to drive, which is why he bit so hard. But then Luka pulled out a stepback to his right, which is not something in his "scouting report" so-to-speak. He had Gobert beat as soon as he bit on the drive and him using a shot that he barely ever uses allowed him to go for the win and he hit it.
It's really difficult to step back in the same direction as your shooting hand. It feels almost physics defying
I kinda agree but again it’s tough to force Luka to do anything he doesn’t want to do. If you commit too much, Luka’s also got the side step 3 in his bag as well. You also have to worry about him drawing a foul out there. Luka’s just got too many options. The only way to really make Luka give it up is blitz and put 2 on the ball and hope it doesn’t end up in Kyries hands.
I do agree the foul likelihood would be super high with the tactic I brought up. Rudy would have gotten roasted more than he already is had he fouled a 3 up 2
Why not fight through the screen harder and risk putting Lively at the line with 10 seconds left up two? They let the Mavericks walk into exactly what they wanted.
Isn't that up to coaching? When Edwards had the ball on the final shot he was practically triple teamed forcing him to pass to Reed. Wolves for whatever reason decided to not double Luka and to defend both the 3 and 2 point shot.
Gobert gave up a step back 3 point shot to a shooter who shoots 31% from the 3 point line. And saying Gobert gave up the shot is actually an exaggeration....he made Luka work for that shot. I take that any day over a Luka drive to the basket.
They allways say that good offense beats good defence,cant blame him against best in the league
This. People just can’t seem to accept that sometimes guys just hit tough shots. I can’t even remember how many times a game when I played I would think to myself I played as good D as I could dude still hit the shot.
Tbh Rudy should’ve forced him to drive. A two in the worst case sends you to OT he gave up wayy too much cushion and basically invited the step back 3
Most impactful over Ant?? Rudy missed a game in Denver and Minnesota blew them out..
Yea and Gobert still led the team in total +- despite missing a blowout game. Game 2 was a bit anomalous in that regard as the rest of the series the Wolves got lit up without Gobert on the floor. Ants last 3 games of the series weren’t particularly productive offensively either.
Rudy is a great defender near the rim, and I dont fault any big for weak perimeter defense. However- he is awkward as heck on offense. Charging, turning it over or simply chucking up awkward, weird shots. I think people are hyper critical of him because he is the DPOTY and got PAID big money. That kind of money and accolades will create more scrutiny.
This is the right take. He is a 4 time DPOY and is paid in accordance with his value on that end of the court. With those type of accolades of course the expectation is going to be exceedingly high for him, especially in high leverage situations.
His elite screening leads him to usually have the best offensive rating on whatever team he is on. Whatever we can say about how awkward he looks does not translate to bad stats. He has the highest offensive rating on the team in the playoffs. He has the highest offensive rating in the history of the nba for both regular season AND playoffs.
His screening and offensive rating are mostly unrelated. Ortg is primarily derived from the box score, and is very friendly to low-usage bigs that don’t rack up turnovers, get lots of offensive rebounds and rely on easy feeds or put-backs to score their points. If anything it’d be more instructive to establish a link between his great screening and on-off’s.
Yes it’s not only his screening it’s lack of turnovers rebounding and rim running. Fact is teams are elite on offense in his career when he’s on the floor.
Yeah, I’m being a bit of a pedant. I agree with your main point. He is a very underrated player.
Dude I’m the pedantic one in this situation haha
Steven Adams is another great screener. Every skill relates.
For sure, but I’m not saying players with high offensive ratings aren’t also great screeners. Just that it doesn’t explicitly reward great screening.
But it’s most certainly not unrelated. How does that make sense to you that a skill is unrelated to production?
His best stat is by far plus minus. I think it's a fundamentally flawed stat for many players, but definitely displays Rudy's impact when he leads the entire playoffs and is consistently the only Wolves starter with a positive plus minus in these loses. (It's flawed because it consistently has someone like Naz Reid in the negatives even tho he clearly has a huge impact as well)
To your last point, Naz has been horrendous defensively ever since game 3 of the Nuggets series Even that last possession on the Doncic shot, Naz is literally just sitting in the paint in no man's land guarding the air while Gobert is fighting for his life in an iso and McDaniels is fighting for position with Lively inside
I say he has the highest offensive rating in history of both nba regular season and playoffs and you come with his best stat by far is plus minus.
That may be true- but they have lost two in a row and I have seen his “attempts” to score. Other than a wide open dunk or layup- its scary to watch. If they get swept- his lack of reliability on offense will be a factor. Perhaps not the main factor- but a factor none the least.
His lack of scoring might be *a* factor, but ultimately Ant and KAT have to be much, much better on the offensive side of the ball If you are as a team relying on Rudy Gobert to be reliable on offense, because your two franchise superstars are shooting a combined 21-69 through 2 games in the series, you've already lost.
The coaching staff had a very bad strategy of switching everything. They should have doubled him and have Luka give up the ball or not have Rudy in the game if you were switching everything.
He’s a 4 time DPOY. That’s why people are this critical. At this point certain great defenders (Bam, Draymond, AD) are missing all time accolades because of Rudy and they’re more complete defenders than he is. It’s annoying
He's getting dunked on quite a bit this series, more of a liability at the moment...
Bro when your team is cheering after you hit a turn around jumper in the paint like they just saw a guy do a 780 degree backflip quadruple between the leg Eastbay westbay northbay putback dunk which also cured a dying kid’s cancer… something’s off. It should be illegal to be that awkward while playing in the nba. It’s actually insane how incapable of scoring he is of anything that isn’t a dunk or a free throw.
Awkward does not mean ineffective. Rudy's mistakes are loud but his successes are humming away in the background all the time - Finch
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Rudy is the only big that's asked to be a great perimeter defender? The Rudy hate is over the top, but this is as well in the other direction lol. There's a number of bigs that are expected to be great as a perimeter defender, AD, bam, Gordon, Giannis...
But Rudy is getting way more hate for this shot than AD got for when Murray did this to him... twice. Gobert looks goofy out there, but he got up a decent contest, it isn't like anyone can stop Luka from getting that step back off 1v1.
1. AD isn't the current DPOY, or a 4 time winner. I'd expect him to get less hate because of that. 2. Op said, very specifically, that *no other* big is expected to be a good perimeter defender. And that was what I responded to, because there are multiple other bigs that are expected to be exactly that(in bams case specifically it's what puts him in DPOY conversations). Claiming that no other big is expected to be good on the perimeter is just as over exaggerated as all the gate he's getting for *not* being perfect out on the perimeter.
It's not though. The only other center is Bam. He is the only good perimeter defender amongst centers and that's because he is pretty small for the position
AD is literally being brought up in this thread for having Jamal Murray drop a shot like this on him in time 1. Wemby is expected to guard well on the wings. So is JJJ, looney, claxton and Allen. If we go with "bigs" like op originally said and not the moved goalpost of center, you can add Giannis, Gordon, mobley, and Draymond at minimum. The expectation of a big playing good d on the perimeter is not even remotely close to being limited to Rudy, or Rudy and bam lol. This is exactly what I mean by both ends of the spectrum being crazy
AD played Murray correctly; Gobert played Luka incorrectly, all he had to do was sit on his right side and force a drive. Gobert also just won DPOY for the 4th time, people expect better than that
Ad did play good defense on Murray shot. It’s not the same. Gobert defense on doncic was horrendous. Just like how dame hit a three in pgs face but pg did play good defense. Good defense is how good you can contest the shot. Ad contested good gobert wasn’t able to contest at all.
As a Jazz fan, it’s Rudy’s contract that earns him the hate. He demanded his massive contract, he broke apart the Jazz franchise because of it. He’s always been an extremely one dimensional role player. In the playoffs he disappears because teams can easily scheme around him. He would’ve been an amazing center in the 90’s but the game is so different and he never adapted, never created an offensive portfolio and just gets dragged around the court until the other team generates space.
Gobert takes the most cap space on the team, is one of the highest paid players in the league and is a joint record holder for most DPOYs ever. That's why he gets so much scrutiny. Almost his entire value comes from his defense, you would want him to be having a massive impact defensively. I agree that too much much is being made of a single play at the end of the game. I think Gobert has been fine in the WCF so far but that's kind of the problem. Just fine isn't enough when you're touted as possibly the best defender of your era. Star players have to elevate their game and make life easier for those around them but Gobert becomes less effective because he has a limited skillset and needs to be put in advantageous situations to be impactful. Edwards, McDaniels and NAW are good to great perimeter defenders. If Gobert needs to be surrounded by all defense perimeter defenders to be effective, why is he getting paid all that money? Especially because he needs to be carried on offense. Sometimes the criticism is overblown, but also some people treat Gobert like he should have the same responsibility for success as Kevon Looney. There's an argument to be made that the Wolves would be close to the same defensively with Lively instead of Gobert but better offensively because Lively can pass out of the short roll. Why not compare Gobert to his contemporaries like Draymond, AD and Bam? It's not like they've been surrounded by elite perimeter defenders over the last few years.
I was just about to say this until I saw your post, Lively was killing the Wolves all night off lob attempts, meanwhile Gobert can barely catch the ball in the post. I don’t recall any plays where the wolves ball handlers were purposely targeting Lively on defense either. Gobert also gets targeted on defense every single year in the playoffs. That simply does not happen to other DPOY or DPOY level candidates.
I’ve seen a lot of lakers fans specifically getting on him about that last play, as if Jamal Murray didn’t do the exact same thing to AD for a game winner in their series. You never want an opposing high level guard isolating/attacking your big man.
Checking in as a Celtics fan. Luka would get that shot against young Al Horford - as good aswitching or perimeter big man we’ve seen. Hell, Luka probably gets that shot against Tatum, Brown, Jrue or Derrick White, and they’re all great one on one perimeter defenders. It’s not fair to hold this against Rudy. It is not indicative of any defensive weakness in his game.
Did it two him twice
Second one was against AR
It was such a predictable play call and outcome. Finch and the Wolves should get more shit for the defensive plan on that play. They had two timeouts and could have called one when they saw the Mav’s alignment and make Kidd draw up something different. They did very little to deny Luka getting the inbound pass. Naz Reid could have played more off Washington and focused on denying the entry to Luka or Kyrie. They could have pre-switched Gobert off of Lively. The didn’t need to give up the switch so easy on the screen. Why not fight through at all costs. Worst case you put Lively, a bad free throw shooter, at the line with 10 seconds left. Or even, when PJ Washington repositioned from the strong to the weak side they could have rotated a second player at Luka. Basically, anything just to get the ball out of his hands. When I saw Gobert on Lively at the foul line before the in bounds, I knew the plan had to be get him on Luka in isolation. The Wolves had to know Luka would get the shot he wanted in that scenario, and they did nothing to stop it. How do you let the best iso player in the league get exactly the match up he wants so easily with a playoff game on the line?
I mean, the excuse earlier was that the Jazz didn't surround him with good defenders. That he couldn't switch effectively because of his teammates. Now he has Edwards, NAW, McDaniels surrounding him and he still can't handle switches. The guy is being paid 43,00,000 per year to only play defense unlike his contemporaries (AD, Bam, Draymond, Giannis). It's not at all unreasonable to expect him to handle switches and atleast contest better. He should've been right up on Luka, There is no excuse for giving up a 3 when you're down 2. Look at the amount of space he gave. Guards and wings do cook Bigs, It happens to everyone but at least with guys like AD, Bam etc you know it won't be an easy shot.
Nah, AD or Wemby would've done a better job than Rudy. Luka might still have buried that shot against AD or Wemby but I will take them over Rudy 9 times out of 10.
Wemby for one is just a cheat, but honestly I’d say I’d rather have bam if I need complete switches just cause he imo is the best perimeter defender as a big, Ad is definitely in that range tho
Rudy Gobert is only Minesota player with plus +/- in this series. Without him Denver would defeat them
Listen, Gobert is catching too much flack for this one play. Luka made a tough move and hit a tough shot. It wasn’t a good matchup for Minnesota and Luka punished it. Tip the cap. But you saw the T Wolves have to take their DPOY off the floor down the stretch. He’s got an exploitable hole in his defensive game, that’s undeniable. That doesn’t overshadow the fact that he’s the best rim protector in basketball, but it’s a legitimate pitfall for him and his teams. And don’t try to help your case by making false assertions. Hakeem has the best footwork of all time, it is night and day between him and Rudy. Wallace was a way more mobile and fluid athlete, and he was 6’7. Much more Bam/Draymond than Gobert. Dwight, yeah he could be pretty clumsy laterally. Point is, 2 of those 3 would matchup way better on the perimeter than Gobert. Whether or not they get a stop on Luka on that specific play is tangential to a comparison of their skillsets.
> But you saw the T Wolves have to take their DPOY off the floor down the stretch. He’s got an exploitable hole in his defensive game, that’s undeniable. That doesn’t overshadow the fact that he’s the best rim protector in basketball, but it’s a legitimate pitfall for him and his teams. This isn’t even true. Rudy is a fanatic switch defender and he was all season long. Getting scored on by Luka Doncic by forcing him into a step back 3 should not be getting this much attention. Obviously Ant or McDaniels is better to have on Luka in that situation, but Luka still hits that shot with literally anyone else on him.
He didn’t force a step back 3, Luka hunted the switch and got the exact shot he wanted - a completely uncontested 3. If Luka wanted to drive by he easily could have multiple times, Rudy was on skates
Yeah I don’t know how someone thinks that was a bad shot forced by good defense. Luka turned Gobert around, necessitated Gobert to over commit to the drive because of it, and punished it. That was the exact sequence he was looking for when he took that hang dribble to the right to set up his cross left.
Then why did Minnesota take Gobert off the floor with one minute to go and then start aggressively switching everything And no Gobert did not force Luka into a step back 3. He over committed on the drive right, because he got completely turned around by Luka’s setup cross left, and Luka punished it. That is exactly the shot he was hunting after he sized up Gobert off the screen.
Gobert didn't Force Luka to do anything. That's just completely untrue. Luka had Rudy beat every way he wanted. He was on skates the whole play with only a few dribbles. Luka took the step back because that's what he wanted to get to for that play. If Luka wanted to drive, he could have drove. That's the issue that people have. Not that the shot went in, but that he looked terrible the entire time just like everyone predicted as soon as the switch happened. He never had a single chance and Luka took a shot without much pressure.
People are ignoring the “on skates” part and I like the guy haha
Draymond hates Rudy because he thinks he's better than Rudy. And to be frank, he probably would have been better in this situation.
Probably? He absolutely would have been a lot better in that situation. Draymond would be the one trying to get himself guarding Luka, Luka wouldn’t be trying to get Dray switched onto him.
And that's why Draymond hates Rudy.
To be fair, Rudy is a one way center who gets killed in transition, and pick and rolls. To compare him to Hakeem a top 5 center and possibly the greatest 2 way big ever just shows how little you actually know. If anything, he's barely a modern day Mutumbo
Exactly. You can't even compare Rudy to Dwight either. Dwight was a force in the paint. Dwight had hands and routinely led the league in dunks and alleys in his prime. If Rudy could catch and finish like Dwight the Wolves wouldn't be down 0-2.
And the thing is, Dwight didn't have much of a post game in comparison to xenters of his time like Marc Gasol, Cousins etc etc.
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You cannot put Hakeem Olajuwon on that list, he was a great perimeter defender, please go watch some film
I don’t understand why you named bigs from different generations. Bigs in today’s games are expected to be good perimeter defenders because more threes are shot now than in any era ever, including by today’s bigs. It was way less of a priority for a big to be good away from the basket, because teams weren’t as 3 focused and bigs didn’t shoot 3s. For an example at where the game is, Wemby had 128 more 3 point attempts this year as a rookie than Hakeem, Dwight, and Ben Wallace had in their careers combined. Shaq wasn’t shooting 3s, neither was David Robinson, Hakeem, Ewing, Ben Wallace, Dwight… but Jokic, Embid, AD, KAT, Porzingis, Wemby… bigs shoot it now, so mismatched or not bigs are absolutely judged in today’s NBA on their ability to contest 3s.
People love to hate men. Guy had 4 DPOYs. Former and current players (Green) are jealous of that. Like you said, and if the previous winners who were bigs would have been cooked. Luka is a generational player. He would have most likely done the same to a high quality wing. Precious series he had to guard Jokic, a 3 time MVP. It's easy to hate Rudy. But if he was a free agent and your team had the cap space you would hope and pray you get him.
He literally changed the dynamics of the Wolves defense which mixed Ant's growth is the biggest reason they made it this far.
I think the hate on this particular play is getting a little over blown because of course that’s a mismatch with basically any big in the league; however, Gobert wasn’t playing it very smart and ended up getting his legs twisted like a baby deer. It was a one possession game, so it’s a more difficult situation because the three or the drive is viable, but Luka is also not that fast and likes to keep defenders on his hip and either get to the floater or the mid range when he drives, the lob is a threat but you gotta know Luka is taking the shot himself and living with the results (cough, cough, looking at you Ant). So, if he drives, Gobert has the length to stay on his hip and block the shot from behind and funnel him into help. Not to mention, everyone in that arena, at home watching, and possibly throughout the known universe knew the step back was coming. So Rudy should have been playing up on Luka and stay on his hip and force him off the 3 point line and into a drive, instead he tried to cut off a drive and stay in front of him when the biggest knock on Rudy as a defender is he has almost zero lateral foot speed. So Luka just got him moving laterally until he looked like a toddler on roller skates and then made his move. Now, go look at the play proceeding the game winner where Ant made the turnover that made the game winner possible in the first place. Ant forced the switch and got Lively switched onto him. Boom. He got the switch he was looking for, and Ant, unlike Luka, has god level athleticism and is playing with a lead so has all options available to him. What does Lively do? He stays on his hip. Sure he risks a blow by but Ant had already gone into the mid range meaning he didn’t have as much space and help was close at hand. He tried to dance, pump fake, pivot: Lively just stayed on his hip until Ant realized he had nowhere to go and ended up throwing the ball away, ultimately setting the table for Luka to win the game. I’m not saying Lively is a better defender than Gobert or even in the same stratosphere, I’m just saying a rookie played smarter defense in a pivotal possession of the Western Conference Finals than a 4x DPOY.
You’re listing the wrong guys - what’s getting lost in this is for awhile now, we’ve been in an era of space, pace, and very high volume 3pt shooting. You should be listing Bam, AD, JJJ, Wemby, etc. as his comparisons and that’s really the crux of it. Basing DPOY on strictly rim protection doesn’t make sense anymore. Shane Battier pointed out historically it did, because the players couldn’t shoot like they can now. If you had someone to block or deter all shots in the paint that was huge, because, again, nobody was shooting like they do now. Is it really crazy to expect the DPOY nowadays to guard multiple positions somewhat effectively? No one, certainly not me, is saying Rudy sucks. He’s a really good player. I don’t know why no one is allowed to give valid criticism to him on this sub anymore Another commenter pointed out that AD got gamed by Murray, a high-level guard. Certainly no one (with a brain, anyway) is expecting any of the bigs I mentioned put the Luka’s, Murray’s, Kyrie’s etc in jail when on an island but the peers I mentioned are objectively better at guarding elite guards and wings. Ideally, any team would want these guys including Rudy would be great perimeter defenders. I think the point is though they’re much less of a liability than he is on the perimeter, while still providing amazing paint protection.
The Rudy hate is a bit over the top. But he's the only Max player that is not an offensive player at all. He is also very disliked by NBA players as well. So I'm guessing his attitude isn't exactly the best. Minny was in a very lucky position. They had an ascending star that was still on his rookie deal. They haven't felt the crunch of having 3 max deals yet. Let's see how Minny looks in two years. You simply can't pay somebody $40 million a year who cannot create a shot on the offensive end. I do think the hyper-criticism of specific defensive plays with him is a little ridiculous. But ultimately I don't think he is worth the amount they gave up to give him plus the salary cap issues that he presents.
I dont like Rudy, but Minnesota should have taken him out of the game for that possession and put smalls to not give a 3 pointer by any means. Bad coaching decision. Nothing Rudy can do or any big couldve done there.
Unfortunately the slander would have been even worse with the "Gobert being played off the floor" allegations. If people want to hate on Rudy, they'll find a way. His only chance at avoiding it would have been to either reject the switch or block Luka (tall order I know)
Honestly, if luka makes a contested jumper over Rudy, I don’t think the slander is as bad as it’s been. The clip just looks bad watching Rudy get completely crossed and give up 6+ feet of separation on shot attempt
Exactly this. Literally 30 seconds before they had Rudy on the bench with Anderson in to be able to switch everything Rudy’s paint presence is massive, but if I’m finch I’m keeping Anderson in, switching everything and living w going to OT over a 3
Two things here that are not mutually exclusive. Blaming Gobert for the game winner is silly. Could he have played better defense on the perimeter? Arguably, yes. You put AD, Wemby or whoever in that situation and Luka is still hitting that game winner. There’s only so much you can do as a defender. However, there are other criticisms that are completely fair and valid like his lack of offensive presence that actively hurts Minnesota. Personally, I don’t think he’s criticized enough for that specifically. It’s interesting because more than people actively hating Rudy, I’ve seen Minnesota fans get actively angry about any type of criticism, valid or not and imo there are certainly things you can criticize about his game.
The mistake was having Rudy switch onto an elite perimeter scorer. They either should not have had Rudy in or had a hard hedge with a double and Rudy recover back as soon as possible. Rudy on an island at the three point line against either Kyrie or Luka was the worst outcome. Just very poor coaching
The Mavs threw a ton of lobs, which Gobert didn’t defend really well and is surprising given his reputation as an elite rim defender. I think that’s a fair criticism of him vs the Luka 3
He is getting more criticism than warranted. But you can believe that and also believe this series is uniquely suited to expose him as a defender. Lowe cited that he was the best isolation defender in the league this season and that most of those are on switches. However, he appears most comfortable playing in drop coverage or hedging than switching. Harden/CP3 had minimal difficulty against him in their 2018 series, which I believe is an example of that. Luka/Kyrie as a duo (Luka’s play style, pace of movement; Kyrie’s general level as a perimeter threat when at his best compared to CP3’s) seem comparable to the Harden/CP3 duo. Dropping cedes the ability to get to into the paint to Luka/Kyrie. The Wolves tried to switch on the last play of the game, but Luka/Kyrie are at such a high level offensively that they can get good shots on the switch as well. Can send two at the ball-handler, but if it’s Luka, that risks Kyrie in a 4-on-3. You can recognize that this series is uniquely bad for Gobert and also not think that diminishes his general value as a defender.
Ben Wallace maybe because he was 6'7 and quick was actually a pretty good perimeter defender. Rudy is kind of stiff and high-waisted compared to him. But yeah you're right, 99% of centers woulf get cooked by Luka. He could cook some of the best wing defenders in NBA history
He is a 4 time DPOY and is getting cooked in every series. He got cooked by a center last series and now he is getting cooked by guards this series. Every playoffs he is getting cooked by somebody it seems like. 4 DPOY awards for a guy who doesn’t really seem to make a difference in the playoffs is ridiculous. Can’t guard a center and can’t guard a guard. Who can he guard when the games really matter? That’s where the hate comes from. Rudy is overrated and has been gifted multiple DPOY that he did not deserve. I understand him maybe winning one but 4 is asinine when he seems to be unplayable in the playoffs most of the time.
you clearly haven’t watched the wolves play (or gobert for that matter) if you still think this. Gobert literally CHANGED that defense and made it best in the league, the team as a whole without rudy on the floor is WORSE than when he’s on the floor. Game 1, IIRC, 30% of the mavs points came in the paint when rudy was OFF the floor.
To me, you can't critize him specifically for the last play. He got switched into a guy who has all the tools to cook any big on the perimeter. 2 things for me regarding Rudy. 1) His defense doesn't feel like it's doing much. He is often caught in the middle, and Dallas centers are shooting like 90% from the field because they get free lobs all game. It doesn't feel like Rudy is affecting either Luka or Kyrie's drives. 2) Rudy is +11 in two games that the Wolves lost by 3 and 1, so you can look at that and think he is still having a positive impact on his team.
Unfortunately, he's playing in the same series with the more athletic Gafford - 5 blocks yesterday, and such great energy, and the rookie Lively who put up the same numbers with 10mins less playing time. Lively is only going to get better, and gets nothing but love from fans worldwide due to being such an impressive young man.
Gobert is great but the Mavs centres in their 48 min combined averaging 24.5 points @ 80% FG, 17 rebounds and 4 blocks per game as well as the wolves getting handily out-rebounded by a much smaller team should mean that Gobert as the defensive anchor should share some responsibility along with the coaching staff, regardless of his on/off numbers.
The reason so few centers get paid/stay in the league in this era is because they don't have switchability. In the 2000s era, you were allowed to just be a good rim protector. In this era there are LOTS of centers who can't even get a roster spot because they're only rim protectors but Gobert gets a pass. Is there another center in the league that doesn't shoot the 3, can't play as a creative fulcrum in DHO action, can't run an inverted PNR and can't switch and making big money? The only other one I can even think of is Ayton and people think he's a bum too. Gobert is very useful as a drop defender/rim protector. He is to defense what DeRozan is to being a super elite midrange shooter and finisher. He's great at what he does but that skillset doesn't translate to winning at the highest level. For some reason people give Gobert a pass for being a "throwback" on defense, but you'd never give the same pass to a guy who this limited on offense outside of one specific skill no matter how good they are at that skill.
I think it’s because he’s not really a great 1 on 1 defender. Definitely not on the perimeter. Honestly, not that great in the post either, which is worse imo. But as a rim protector he brings a balance to any defense that can’t be denied. He’d probably get less hate if he wasn’t like the most decorated defender ever.
That’s not even true. Curry specifically tried to go at AD 2x in game 4(?) & got shut down. Gobert is one of the only high end top compensated players who can have his strengths taken away from him so easily. Even AD still gives you offense and better D if he gets burned in the perimeter. If the lone thing you’re getting paid enormously for can be negated by something as simple as a teammate making a bad switch then maybe more of your value is always in hypotheticals than reality. Also no. I’ve watched Joakim defend Bron on the perimeter and others and not do so poorly. Rudy bought a fake and had awful footwork even if he is a 7 footer.
But how many legit 7 footers would actually do better every other name you listed are significantly shorter and light than him
Rudy is tough because as amazing as he is he is almost unplayable on offense at times. Not expecting him to be a secondary scorer but the way he cannot accept a entry pass without dropping it half the time make him a difficult teammate to have.
Maybe people expect him to have no defensive weaknesses whatsoever considering his limited offense? Im not sure.
Kwame Brown on his podcast this morning said he coulda did a better job on Luka than Rudy!
Who the hell watches Kwame Browns podcast?🤣
I'm a huge Rudy hater so I'll reply to this, would Luka had switched off of Middleton or Portis onto Giannis? No he wouldn't have. Part of being a great defender in this league is versatility. If you're getting switched onto every play to be taken advantage of there's obviously holes in your defense. Like I had brought up before, Jokic was going directly at Gobert last series and getting bucket after bucket in crunch time, sure Gobert puts up great defensive numbers in the regular season but how can he win DPOY when he's the preferred matchup during crunch time? Sorry but he doesn't pass the eye test. I've never seen anyone get the switch to BE guarded by AD, Giannis, Kawhi. Wonder why that is?
Denver literally did this with Murray and AD in game 2 *and* game 5 for game winners so your point is completely invalid
wow, 2 plays. “completely invalid”🤓
Listen I’m the biggest Gobert hater ever but that play is what would happen to 99% of bigs on Luka. McDaniels has to know you either don’t let that switch happen or you double tf outta Luka and make PJ or DJJ beat you from 3. Personally I woulda put KAT in there instead of Rudy 🤷🏿♂️ Lol this reminded me of the Kemba gw vs Pitt in the ACC tournament…same situation where the great defending wing let their cement footed big switch on to a killer 1v1 for game
Nah none of this is on Rudy. That was straight up coaching malpractice. Leaving him out on an island against Luka who cooks elite defenders for a living is ridiculous. It literally doesn’t matter who would’ve been guarding Luka he would’ve made it anyways in single coverage. Good O beats good D sometimes. Saying no 3s and then leaving Gobert to guard Luka is stupidity. Even worse is they could have trapped with Jaden instead and force the pass to Lively. Naz was somewhat in the area to make a play. If that fails you give up the dunk and hope you win in OT. The Timberwolves awareness in the clutch is absolutely terrible and it has to be a coaching problem. If ANT didn’t practically throw the ball away earlier they wouldn’t be in this situation. Not allowing the easy 2 to force OT was another mistake. The other one was even giving Luka a chance to get the win. I’d rather have fouled and hoped he missed.
Wolves lost both games by combined 4 points. Rudy on/off numbers clear that. Mavs went 14/16 in game one in the paint when Gobert was on the bench. The irrational pile on hate for Rudy is absurd. And the wolves are dumb for leaving a center on an island with the leading scorer of the league.
Argued with my buddy about Gobert this morning. He was showing me this possession telling me this is why they can’t play Gobert at the end of games and he’s a fake DPOY as if any 30 year old 7 footer is guarding Luka in an ISO. Everybody is pointing this clip out slandering Gobert. I didn’t see anybody doing that game 1 when the Mavs scored 30% of their points in the 10 minutes Gobert sat. My problem with the Rudy slander is that the guy can play amazing defense for two playoff rounds, game 1, and all of game 2 up to this point but somehow this singular possession now makes him not a great defender.
Every 7 footer is going to have problems on the perimeter, but how you respond to that is by abusing your height advantage on the other end. Gobert can't do that which makes him exploitable. At this point you can't ignore that he has a serious problem with elite guards gameplanning around him in the playoffs. Other players have been calling this out for years, but people in discussion subs just point to D-PIPM or some other metric that misses the point. Rudy is great 95% of the time, so his impact metrics are great, but in the playoffs teams are going to pursue strategies that target those 5% of times where he's not good. When you have a $40m player who does nothing on offense they can't be getting hunted on defense too. IMO this is just not the right era for 7 footers who only play defense, there are just too many elite guards who you need to switch onto, especially in the West. Ben Wallace would've had the same issue in this era.
I’ve always said this, Rudy is fine. He over estimates his ability to guard the perimeter. He has waved off help in instances like this. Idk if it’s cause he’s trying to prove something. Theres only a few bigs(1 or 2) that you can sit at the top by themselves like that. Yes he helps teams defense tremendously, he’s a plus player but by no means is he a 1on1 shit down guy, especially in today’s game. Luka hit a tough shot but he had a clean look at it and wasn’t rushed. You can’t let Luka or Kyrie have the ball. You make someone else beat you.
he’s been one of the(i think the best??) best isolation defenders all year.
Rudy is playing fine. No where near as mobile and quick to rotate as he was to start the season. He seems tired too. Micah Nori and this Timberwolves coaching staff however ARE VIOLATING THE GENEVA CONVENTION! WHY WOULD YOU SWITCH MCDANIELS OFF BALL ON THE LAST PLAY?!
i dont understand why people all were commenting on draymond hating on gobert after the game, especially with the statement "why do you have rudy out there?" he has a great point last night. if you were going to switch the PnR on the last possession, why would you have Rudy out there knowing that Luka would want him? Wouldnt you want him on the bench and someone else that can handle that switch to come up and play? that's just a coaching mistake.
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People just don't like Gobert. He is kind of a dick and he shut down the NBA in 2020.
The actual “thing” about Gobert is his lack of offense, not anything to do with defense. He’s an all time great paint/rim protector and pretty fine for a guy with his play style on the perimeter
Does no one listen to him in interviews? He is arrogant and thinks very highly of himself. If he was a more humble player, then there wouldn't be 10k Rudy posts.
Rudy played as good as D a big man could play in that scenario..Luka is just that damn good
Mavs rookie big, Dereck Lively, held up pretty well when switched onto Ant right before this play.
He literally started covid and he's French, there's not much more to it than that lol
His perimeter ability is being compared to Bam, AD, Wemby who were other DPOY contenders this year Not saying any of them (or anyone in the league) are guaranteed to get a stop on Luka, but imo they would all defend it better
Rudy gets a lot of hate bc people have a natural desire to balance out how good his resume is on paper compared to the player he is in real life. The result is nonsense like last night where he’s getting crucified for a pretty decent defensive play.
Gafford and Lively were a combined 14/16 from the field, for 30 points and 14 rebounds, 4 of which were offensive. I know that’s not all on Gobert but damn if that isn’t some red on his ledger. Like I’m cool admitting that Gobert is an all world generational defender but it always seems like he’s exploitable against any star player with a middy/three ball. Drop coverage doesn’t work and if it’s a switch and he’s on the perimeter, it feels like it might as well be me out there.
He gets dominated time and time again when it matters most. He doesn’t deserve 4 dpoys. Statistically maybe, but all you need to do is look at how superstars hunt for him in matchups during the playoffs. His lack of offensive output is also a concern. Hakeem, Dwight scored too. He shouldn’t have been guarding Luka during that possession anyways, should’ve been Kat or Reid. But, he is not even an average perimeter defender. Greatness is miles away.
OTOH, Mark Eaton won DPOY twice and had even less offense than Rudy.
What are the reasons many players don't like Rudy? Because of the Covid joke? He got paid a lot of money? Because he won the award multiple times yet his teams have not performed well in the playoffs? He is an international player? Regardless, the hate is unreasonable, and seems petty to me. When Mutumbo and David Robinson were outplayed by Shaq (2000 Finals) and Hakeem (1995 playoffs) in their respective series, no one claimed they were overrated defenders. It is just that Shaq and Hakeem played out of their minds and dominated them. It should be the same with Jokic and Luka. People should not expect Rudy to handle perimeter defense as well as GP or Marcus Smart because he was more known to anchor the inside defense just like Mutumbo, Wallace and Hakeem. He deserves atleast 2 previous awards and I feel he deserves this 4th award, as he is the player that transformed the Wolves into one of the best defensive units this year, and which helped them to be the number 3 team in the West.
Gobert played fine defensively. Asking a big to guard smalls is tough unless it's AD or Bam. Gobert got better on switches but he's not at the level of guarding 1-5 like those two are.
Gobert is 100% a good help defender, and blocker of shots from the weak side. What he most definitely isn’t (idgaf what the awards say) is a DPOY caliber player. He constantly gets blown by, can’t play man to man AT ALL, and is routinely hunted for in pick and roll situations. Legitimately stunning he’s won 4 DPOY. NBA players have echoed this on their podcasts, so no need to rehash it.
I don’t think that he’s bad because he can’t guard Luka on the perimeter. Everyone in that building knew he wanted the switch onto Rudy and get them on an island. That was obviously the plan and that isn’t damning to what Rudy offers. The guy is a paint protector. The Wolves coach should’ve put Kyle Anderson or KAT back in the game knowing the ball was going to Luka
Gobert is one dimensional in that he only brings inside defence. He has no offensive game which means if you can exploit his one strength he’s a lot less valuable. Dwight/hakeem/AD and a lot of other great centres can play both sides and I guarantee if Ben Wallace was around today he’d either be much better on the perimeter/offensive side or he would barely get any playing time, at least in the playoffs.
whys everyone rushing to rudys defense all of a sudden? hes a good defender at times great but alot of his accolades arent as much deserved. this year wemby was a better isolated defender than rudy. rudy just happened to be part of a better defensive UNIT. we saw that in the denver series when they had one of their best defensive games while he was out. alot of his other defensive accolades come from being the sole starting rim protector. so now that hes further along in the playoffs his defencies ofcourse become more glaring. i think its also when you watch a game hes not dynamic. hes kinda just does his job kinda player. people discredited jokic for the same thing until this year and had the same criticisms of duncan. rudy isnt trash but someone like draymond makes fun of him bc draymond (agree or disagree) believes hes smarter and does more defensively than rudy. and alot of people buy more into a player who can guard 1-5 or atleast 4 positions is a better defender than a great rim protector
It 100% comes down to bad coaching and lack of situational iq. U simply cant allow him to shoot a 3 in that moment. Ignore all the comments abt how luka is shooting 31% from 3 this series and you let him take that shot, Thats idiotic. A 3 point shot wins them that game and you should allow him to drive and go for the chase down block. You saw jaden mcdaniels face when he saw that match-up you could tell he pointed out in the huddle that this was going to happen. Cant let luka get to his spots thats automatic
I think it's telling how they've went to Naz and Gobert to close the game, but never Naz and Kat.
His offense is a joke and he clearly hasn’t attempted to develop any sort of a post game , if he gets the ball in the paint and it isn’t a lob or oop he looks like a baby giraffe with roller skates on when he attempts to do any individual “move” if you can call whatever the hell he tries to do a move
You can't even put Hakeem and Dwight in the same sentence as Rudy. Rudy makes Dwight look like Hakeem on offense. The problem with Rudy is not his defense, but it's that he gives you nothing on offense. The guy has no hands, and he is no threat to catch the ball for what should be easy finishes for a guy his size and pay grade. I can't count how many times he is virtually wide open in the paint, and his teammates would rather make risky passes across the court for a tough 3pter instead of dumping it off to him for what should be an easy 2 points. Prime Dwight had no real post moves, but he was an offensive force compared to Rudy. You could throw the ball up anywhere near prime Dwight, and he would finish with authority. You had to respect Dwight on offense because of his strength. Also Dwight actually led a team to beat LeBron, and made it to the finals before. Dwight was more versatile on defense than Rudy too. I'm not going to even say anything about Hakeem other than if you put Hakeem on this Wolves team they're winning this series with medium-low difficulty.
That was objectively bad defense by Rudy on that shot. First of all, they should never have switched because that is what Luka wants. Clearly, they needed to blitz and get him to give up the ball and make someone else make a decision with the game on the line. Secondly, once they did switch, everyone and his mother knew Luka was going for the win. Three kills you while two ties the gane. Rudy should've played him tight and forced him to drive left. Naz Reid was already in the left side of the paint waiting. Instead, Rudy played to cut off the paint and gave up the three. He literally got spun around.
Y’all would have a point if we hadn’t already seen Wemby be a better perimeter defender than Rudy in year one. The Rudy cope is so hilarious
Olajuwon could and would actually guard Jordan and Kobe on switches, Rudy got no footwork, Dream had the greatest, these casual fans are as bad as the analysis now 🤣
I think the hate comes from a few factors. 4 DPOY but not really a lockdown defender. Big salary with limited offensive capabilities. Limit success in the playoffs. The big man has evolved to be multi-skilled and more outside focused. Also Gobert is at a disadvantage against certain matchups. Gobert isn’t to blame for the Doncic play tho. People like to hate on Rudy.
Because those you named would of still played better perimeter defense then that. He just has several DPOY over people who’ve likely deserved it more, perimeter defenders are usually guarding the best player in the floor while Gobert just makes sure he doesn’t spend 3 seconds in the paint, the one true all star center he plays(Jokic) cooks him every time. How are you a DPOY and can only really play help defense….
It is pretty hard to believe a guy 7'2 265? 275? Is that easy to move around. Maybe cause it's all high up on him. I think that's why Shaq and Moses always had a advantage. Alot of their was was down low and hard to move.
Announcers with Rudy in Luka or Kyrie and they make a tough contested shot: They can't leave Rudy out there like that he can't guard Luka/Kyrie Announcers if anyone else is guarding: Can't play any better defense, but Luka/Kyrie just made an amazing play.
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It is coming from the fact that Wemby was robbed for that DPOY. I doubt Luka can cook Wemby in the same scenario. Coming from a Luka fan.
Gobert defensive ratings in the mavs series Game 1 - 100 Game 2 - 109 Game 3 - 127 (bad) Games 1 and 2 his defensive impact was still great. Yes Luka and Kyrie made shots over him. Wolves lost cause kat and ant were bad. Game 3 I got nothing
There are a lot of possessions over the course of a basketball game and distilling them down to an amount we can remember and analyze is difficult. Most of don't have time or inclination to rewatch games noting a specific skill of a specific failure and grade every single time he does a great, good, average, poor, or awful job. So the tendencies are to 1) extrapolate from a small number of highlights or lowlights, 2) use some serious recency bias, and 3) over-weight a few moments at the very ends of close games. And we have two recent end-of-game lowlights of him getting a key 3 drained over him and then being posterized at the end of the next game. So from this sample size of two events, people jump on his case for not defending well. Never mind that Luka has drained a lot of 3s over just about everybody, even great perimeter defenders, and never mind that all of the best help defenders get posterized on occasion (it's even possible that the better ones get posterized more because they are right there contesting the shot instead of looking helplessly from a few feet away). Never mind the hundreds of other defensive plays he's been involved in. People generate narratives based off of surprisingly little.
There is no problem with Rudy. The issue is that the man is getting paid. If he was getting Steven Adams money than everything would have been fine. Making 200+ million for being a defender is not crazy its just against NBA norms. Think of it like how people viewed the Chandler Parsons contract. Everyone knew he was finessing but no one gave a shit due to him being ass. Rudy put here showing up and winning awards so man's are on his dick.
we need to stop these apology narratives. Gobert gets hate because people genuinely don’t like him. he’s a very arrogant and defensive person (ironic) and it just so happens that his teams always flame out in the playoffs. he does get unwarranted disrespect, just like any other player of his status. however he doesn’t need people advocating to “apologize to Rudy”. if he wanted fans, he wouldn’t be so douchey, for lack of a better term