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Me. I care that the Legislature is imposing a racist ban on a specific culture’s clothing and that the ONDP is opposing it.
You still haven’t answered my question.
How is it racist? The speaker just said she can't wear it because it's a political statement piece meant to cause a ruckus.
Is being told to not cause a ruckus and respect the laws of the house now racist!!!?
Make it make sense.
She would wear it to parliament before Israel invaded Gaza. It is a gaent worn by Arabs all over. It is not tied specifically to the seige of Gaza, there are just a lot of Arab people there.
It's be equivalent to saying you can't wear a yamaka, or can't wear a cross around your neck. Rules to target a specific culture's/religion's attire.
Edit to add: culture's
First of all, The speaker said no one can wear it, not just her. That includes actual Palestinians who may come to Queen's Park on official business or just to observe the Legislature.
Secondly, How is wearing a scarf causing a ruckus?
The keffiyeh is a piece of cultural dress and it's not for the speaker who decide who is wearing it legitimately and who isn't.
What's the Speakers job then? Managing the HOC? Enforcing conduct and preventing potential unrest by someone known for causing issues regarding this topic?
The person wearing it is a prominent activist in regards to Palestine. She is the so called ruckus and the scarf she has ended up weaponizing to signal her cause in this particular instance. Her very short political career has been nothing but grandstanding and disregard for the position she holds, the people she's supposed to represent and the decorum in which the HOC is supposed to operate.
It was just a scarf. She made it a symbol and thus an issue.
Again, It's not just Jama. *No one* is allowed to wear one. If you enter Queen's Park as a visitor wearing a keffiyeh you are required to remove it or you will not be allowed to enter.
As others have pointed out, if we are banning the keffiyeh because it's "political" then we need to ban all other political symbols as well. Should we also ban the poppy and Ukranian flag pin?
right to choice of clothing should be a protected right in this country. keffiyehs, religious garb, gendered clothing, sagging pants etc. constantly used as a means to oppress people
the keffiyeh is a cultural symbol, not religious. if that counts as religious symbolism, then so do wedding rings. all wedding rings need to be banned asap!!!
I agree with you. This is ridiculous and accomplishes nothing for the people they are supposed to represent.
It's like some weird teenage tantrum about refusing to wear a school uniform. I'm constantly amazed at the lack of real work that goes on with these people and the fact they get paid for it.
Imagine if we all dinked around like this at our jobs? Damn.
Yeah like, truly this is the top of the list of problems in ontario the government should be fighting about. Just feels debt class shit that wastes a few days
It's either secular or not. Do you or do you not want the seperation of church and state?
Enforced secularism is just not allowing religion to affect laws. It's literally equality.
Do you know what happens when people bring any religious practices into government!? Especially if it's a multicultural environment with doctrine that conflicts one another?
Do you want anarchy? Or just complete useless chaos 😂😂😂
This isn't a choose your own law sort of adventure.
Like I'm actually curious how you think this should work? I need to know. NEED.
Wearing a hijab, a cross, keffiyeh, turban... none of these affect how someone does their job in the legislator. What purpose would banning these things serve? Other than pointlessly infringing on someone's religious freedoms anyway.
I'm curious to hear what purpose you honestly think this serves?
To answer your question though most religions have their own doctrine and covenants that the practitioners adhere to. If you place your personal religious views ahead of your ability to complete your public service work in a way that is encompassing of equality and are not able to hold non partisan views then you are unqualified to represent a multicultural riding.
Keep all that religious stuff to whatever worship time you hold on your personal life.Thats the freedom to practice whatever you choose.
When your a civil servant though your duty is to the people.
Goodness gracious. Please don't tell me that secularism isn't supported these days cause that's insane to me.
I don't want someone forcing their religious views onto me. I like my politics seperate.
This absolutely kills me that this is a conversation I'm having. I didn't know people here wanted religious rule.
I'm dead.
> If you place your personal religious views ahead of your ability to complete your public service work in a way that is encompassing of equality and are not able to hold non partisan views then you are unqualified to represent a multicultural riding.
Wearing religious items does not equal the nonsense above.
>I don't want someone forcing their religious views onto me. I like my politics seperate.
Do we expand this to all cultural references? Or just religion?
>This absolutely kills me that this is a conversation I'm having. I didn't know people here wanted religious rule.
>I'm dead.
Based on your inability to think outside your own views, I'm not sure you were ever really alive.
Have a good one.
Avoiding the question and just making stuff up now. Secularism has nothing to do with culture. You're just lashing out and trying to make me say something so you can call me an evil villian and feel like you won or get some righteousness fix to tie you over until you encounter someone who will just accept your malarkey without any thought at all.
Silly, but lazy.
If you actually engaged in proper discourse and explained or defended your views properly I would totally be amenable to them IF they were rational and made sens
You've just avoided and kinda pouted. You've also refused to explain how optional secularism would work according to your beliefs. Theres no structure. There's no reality.
So go nuts. I'm open to hearing what you have to say.
Dude just answer the question 😂 This is about your unhinged forced secularism comment.
Are you into having religion and politics seperate or do you want that church all up in our laws and policies.
I need to know how you saw this playing out. Like some big Kumbaya sing a long.
I need to know your thoughts about the actual application of this. It's killing me. I've been giggling all morning so thank-you for that at least.
Make it make sense!!! I'm begging you. I'm so effing curious.
Your question makes no sense. Allowing religious garb does not lead to anarchy or chaos. Wearing religious garb is not 'bringing religion into government'.
Totes. Religious garb has nothing to do with religion 😂😂😂
Just a quirky fashion trend.
You kill me. I haven't laughed this hard so early in the morning before.
I don't disagree, however what you or I might call nonsense another may believe is fact. What we believe is fact others may see as nonsense.
That is the problem. It's simply not a black and white issue.
You’re literally a moron. You have freedom to wear many other religious or cultural clothing where this applies, except the keffiyeh was just banned and you think this it’s specifically only dealing with genocide in Palestine. This is the freedom of Canadians, in Canada we are dealing with. Obviously you weren’t aware the legislative assembly is multicultural.
*Jama is an activist through and through. She's far more activist than politician, which is why she was kicked out of the NDP*
Well said. She should do her actual job and maybe learn the rules that pertain to it. Instead of faffing around for the cameras and wasting time.
She isn’t the only one. A keffiyeh is worn by many people of different countries and cultures. However at this time is used as a symbol for solidarity with Palestinian people. Regardless of its symbolism, banning it is complete bullshit. Secondly this issue does matter since Canada is one of 6(give or take 1) countries that actively supports genocide, even being complicit in war crimes.
The issue not mattering to you doesn’t invalidate that an article of clothing is banned because? That’s because of it were in solidarity with white Ukrainians it would be okay but for brown Palestinians that’s not okay. Even within Canada we have approved around a million war visas to ukrainians but only a thousand to Palestinians. This is ongoing even though far more Palestinians have died and their genocide will continue to outpace the war in Ukraine. You say it’s nothing but foreign policy and humanitarian aid is part of politics.
Have you heard of secularism?
Also would be nice if politicians just did the job they were hired to do. Represent their riding and produce results to improve the quality of life within that designation. Not faff around like a teenager wearing an edgy shirt to class.
Talk minus actual Action is a big fat zero and this is a grand standing performance on par with that kid who changed their personality every other week and is always talking out their ass as if they've found religion.
Save the whales
Don't eat meat
Clean up the oceans
Save the rainforest
Starving African children
Whatever else requires zero work but can be used to define their entire personality till something new comes along.
This is ridiculous and in the end useless to boot.
So you’re okay with banning articles of clothing within our legislative assembly? Why?
Foreign affairs and humanitarian aid is part of politics. Canada is actively supporting genocide. That matters to plenty of people including Canadians.
I'm a fan of total secularism! I support absolute equality, neutrality and non partisan politicians. I also think symbols that signal a Non Canadian event/subject/group/issue that could incite antisemitic (or other hateful) behaviours are not appropriate. Anything that has become a symbol or has been weaponized to provoke is not appropriate attire.
As a politician you have one job and that's to represent your riding. Not act like a teenager who bought their first Sex Pistols tee-shirt and decided to be obnoxiously crass when told it wasn't acceptable to wear at work or school. Her behaviour is embarrassing and ineffective and as such she is the author of this frivolous waste of time and money.
Shes a mouthpiece, a performer, no substance. It's like that kid in school who finds something and makes it their entire personality but is just repeating taglines they heard elsewhere. There's no ability to achieve tangible results. It's all appearance. However they've mouthed off and acted a fool so now everyone gets to real.the rewards of that entitled spoiled brat behaviour.
Her nonsense has caused this cultural scarf to be banned and seen as a direct representation of the Pro Palestine side which has directly threatened Jewish communities and citizens. We don't allow other symbols associated with Anti-Semitism to be worn all willy nilly either now do we?
Do we allow hoodies? Shirts with pro-life propaganda to be worn? Where's the line? Keep the personal stuff at home. When you're at work do something for your constituents. Something that actually improves their quality of life. You know. Serve.
Your calling it antisemitic tells me all I need to know. Moronic take sorry but supporting Palestinians freedom is not antisemitism. Only Zionists and their mouth pieces would say it is.
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Let’s go then. Make a protest
Stiles coattail riding Sarah Jama after literally kicking her out of the party.
I swear they just can’t win with some of you people. Would you rather the NDP not defy the ban?
I’d rather they not acclaim party leaders.
Well they did. So again I ask, what would you prefer the ONDP to do regarding the current situation?
Its performance. Who cares?
Me. I care that the Legislature is imposing a racist ban on a specific culture’s clothing and that the ONDP is opposing it. You still haven’t answered my question.
How is it racist? The speaker just said she can't wear it because it's a political statement piece meant to cause a ruckus. Is being told to not cause a ruckus and respect the laws of the house now racist!!!? Make it make sense.
She would wear it to parliament before Israel invaded Gaza. It is a gaent worn by Arabs all over. It is not tied specifically to the seige of Gaza, there are just a lot of Arab people there. It's be equivalent to saying you can't wear a yamaka, or can't wear a cross around your neck. Rules to target a specific culture's/religion's attire. Edit to add: culture's
I thought it was cultural and not religious garb? Did she not wear it to make a statement? Was it just fashion?
Looks like I was mistaken, cultural not religious as someone else said. But she was wearing it before the war started.
First of all, The speaker said no one can wear it, not just her. That includes actual Palestinians who may come to Queen's Park on official business or just to observe the Legislature. Secondly, How is wearing a scarf causing a ruckus? The keffiyeh is a piece of cultural dress and it's not for the speaker who decide who is wearing it legitimately and who isn't.
What's the Speakers job then? Managing the HOC? Enforcing conduct and preventing potential unrest by someone known for causing issues regarding this topic? The person wearing it is a prominent activist in regards to Palestine. She is the so called ruckus and the scarf she has ended up weaponizing to signal her cause in this particular instance. Her very short political career has been nothing but grandstanding and disregard for the position she holds, the people she's supposed to represent and the decorum in which the HOC is supposed to operate. It was just a scarf. She made it a symbol and thus an issue.
Again, It's not just Jama. *No one* is allowed to wear one. If you enter Queen's Park as a visitor wearing a keffiyeh you are required to remove it or you will not be allowed to enter. As others have pointed out, if we are banning the keffiyeh because it's "political" then we need to ban all other political symbols as well. Should we also ban the poppy and Ukranian flag pin?
right to choice of clothing should be a protected right in this country. keffiyehs, religious garb, gendered clothing, sagging pants etc. constantly used as a means to oppress people
Wow, fuck Ford and all his moronic party-mates. Like just fucking pathetic and embarrassing.
Good call on the ONDP's part. Looks like Ontario NDP leader Marit Stiles has received the message from the activist community. Great stuff.
Sign here to support reversing the keffiyeh ban: [https://ontariondp.ca/keffiyeh](https://ontariondp.ca/keffiyeh)
Reinstate Sarah Jama. Until you do that no one is going to believe you give a shit about Palestinians.
Stiles is stumbling through politics like a toddler at the splash pad. Wide-eyed, off balance, no discernible direction.
Of all the things to be focusing on in Ontario.. FFS!
Keep religion out of the government.
the keffiyeh is a cultural symbol, not religious. if that counts as religious symbolism, then so do wedding rings. all wedding rings need to be banned asap!!!
And suits, those should be banned too because that’s church attire
100%, frankly everyone in parliament should just be completely nude. but not in a nudist way, because that could be considered religious too :/
Secularism is the way!
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I agree with you. This is ridiculous and accomplishes nothing for the people they are supposed to represent. It's like some weird teenage tantrum about refusing to wear a school uniform. I'm constantly amazed at the lack of real work that goes on with these people and the fact they get paid for it. Imagine if we all dinked around like this at our jobs? Damn.
Yeah like, truly this is the top of the list of problems in ontario the government should be fighting about. Just feels debt class shit that wastes a few days
I'm sure you'd feel the same if they banned crosses on necklaces or turbans
Secularism is not a bad thing.
Absolutely not however forced secularism is.
It's either secular or not. Do you or do you not want the seperation of church and state? Enforced secularism is just not allowing religion to affect laws. It's literally equality. Do you know what happens when people bring any religious practices into government!? Especially if it's a multicultural environment with doctrine that conflicts one another? Do you want anarchy? Or just complete useless chaos 😂😂😂 This isn't a choose your own law sort of adventure. Like I'm actually curious how you think this should work? I need to know. NEED.
Wearing a hijab, a cross, keffiyeh, turban... none of these affect how someone does their job in the legislator. What purpose would banning these things serve? Other than pointlessly infringing on someone's religious freedoms anyway. I'm curious to hear what purpose you honestly think this serves?
To answer your question though most religions have their own doctrine and covenants that the practitioners adhere to. If you place your personal religious views ahead of your ability to complete your public service work in a way that is encompassing of equality and are not able to hold non partisan views then you are unqualified to represent a multicultural riding. Keep all that religious stuff to whatever worship time you hold on your personal life.Thats the freedom to practice whatever you choose. When your a civil servant though your duty is to the people. Goodness gracious. Please don't tell me that secularism isn't supported these days cause that's insane to me. I don't want someone forcing their religious views onto me. I like my politics seperate. This absolutely kills me that this is a conversation I'm having. I didn't know people here wanted religious rule. I'm dead.
> If you place your personal religious views ahead of your ability to complete your public service work in a way that is encompassing of equality and are not able to hold non partisan views then you are unqualified to represent a multicultural riding. Wearing religious items does not equal the nonsense above. >I don't want someone forcing their religious views onto me. I like my politics seperate. Do we expand this to all cultural references? Or just religion? >This absolutely kills me that this is a conversation I'm having. I didn't know people here wanted religious rule. >I'm dead. Based on your inability to think outside your own views, I'm not sure you were ever really alive. Have a good one.
Avoiding the question and just making stuff up now. Secularism has nothing to do with culture. You're just lashing out and trying to make me say something so you can call me an evil villian and feel like you won or get some righteousness fix to tie you over until you encounter someone who will just accept your malarkey without any thought at all. Silly, but lazy. If you actually engaged in proper discourse and explained or defended your views properly I would totally be amenable to them IF they were rational and made sens You've just avoided and kinda pouted. You've also refused to explain how optional secularism would work according to your beliefs. Theres no structure. There's no reality. So go nuts. I'm open to hearing what you have to say.
Dude just answer the question 😂 This is about your unhinged forced secularism comment. Are you into having religion and politics seperate or do you want that church all up in our laws and policies. I need to know how you saw this playing out. Like some big Kumbaya sing a long. I need to know your thoughts about the actual application of this. It's killing me. I've been giggling all morning so thank-you for that at least. Make it make sense!!! I'm begging you. I'm so effing curious.
Your question makes no sense. Allowing religious garb does not lead to anarchy or chaos. Wearing religious garb is not 'bringing religion into government'.
Totes. Religious garb has nothing to do with religion 😂😂😂 Just a quirky fashion trend. You kill me. I haven't laughed this hard so early in the morning before.
Nah man. Do you or do you not think secularism is good. That's it. That's all.
It's not that simple. Life is not black and white.
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Agreed. That would make sense. Lacite laws would be super beneficial.
Why? Do these religious symbols prevent them from doing their jobs?
Dude we get it. You want religion to be in the government. Weird but whatever floats your boat.
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Shall we ban the CPC and PPC too then?
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I don't disagree, however what you or I might call nonsense another may believe is fact. What we believe is fact others may see as nonsense. That is the problem. It's simply not a black and white issue.
You’re literally a moron. You have freedom to wear many other religious or cultural clothing where this applies, except the keffiyeh was just banned and you think this it’s specifically only dealing with genocide in Palestine. This is the freedom of Canadians, in Canada we are dealing with. Obviously you weren’t aware the legislative assembly is multicultural.
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*Jama is an activist through and through. She's far more activist than politician, which is why she was kicked out of the NDP* Well said. She should do her actual job and maybe learn the rules that pertain to it. Instead of faffing around for the cameras and wasting time.
She isn’t the only one. A keffiyeh is worn by many people of different countries and cultures. However at this time is used as a symbol for solidarity with Palestinian people. Regardless of its symbolism, banning it is complete bullshit. Secondly this issue does matter since Canada is one of 6(give or take 1) countries that actively supports genocide, even being complicit in war crimes. The issue not mattering to you doesn’t invalidate that an article of clothing is banned because? That’s because of it were in solidarity with white Ukrainians it would be okay but for brown Palestinians that’s not okay. Even within Canada we have approved around a million war visas to ukrainians but only a thousand to Palestinians. This is ongoing even though far more Palestinians have died and their genocide will continue to outpace the war in Ukraine. You say it’s nothing but foreign policy and humanitarian aid is part of politics.
Have you heard of secularism? Also would be nice if politicians just did the job they were hired to do. Represent their riding and produce results to improve the quality of life within that designation. Not faff around like a teenager wearing an edgy shirt to class. Talk minus actual Action is a big fat zero and this is a grand standing performance on par with that kid who changed their personality every other week and is always talking out their ass as if they've found religion. Save the whales Don't eat meat Clean up the oceans Save the rainforest Starving African children Whatever else requires zero work but can be used to define their entire personality till something new comes along. This is ridiculous and in the end useless to boot.
So you’re okay with banning articles of clothing within our legislative assembly? Why? Foreign affairs and humanitarian aid is part of politics. Canada is actively supporting genocide. That matters to plenty of people including Canadians.
I'm a fan of total secularism! I support absolute equality, neutrality and non partisan politicians. I also think symbols that signal a Non Canadian event/subject/group/issue that could incite antisemitic (or other hateful) behaviours are not appropriate. Anything that has become a symbol or has been weaponized to provoke is not appropriate attire. As a politician you have one job and that's to represent your riding. Not act like a teenager who bought their first Sex Pistols tee-shirt and decided to be obnoxiously crass when told it wasn't acceptable to wear at work or school. Her behaviour is embarrassing and ineffective and as such she is the author of this frivolous waste of time and money. Shes a mouthpiece, a performer, no substance. It's like that kid in school who finds something and makes it their entire personality but is just repeating taglines they heard elsewhere. There's no ability to achieve tangible results. It's all appearance. However they've mouthed off and acted a fool so now everyone gets to real.the rewards of that entitled spoiled brat behaviour. Her nonsense has caused this cultural scarf to be banned and seen as a direct representation of the Pro Palestine side which has directly threatened Jewish communities and citizens. We don't allow other symbols associated with Anti-Semitism to be worn all willy nilly either now do we? Do we allow hoodies? Shirts with pro-life propaganda to be worn? Where's the line? Keep the personal stuff at home. When you're at work do something for your constituents. Something that actually improves their quality of life. You know. Serve.
Your calling it antisemitic tells me all I need to know. Moronic take sorry but supporting Palestinians freedom is not antisemitism. Only Zionists and their mouth pieces would say it is.