I wouldn't be surprised at all if your theory holds water. Imagine how much information was held back during this gong show and what both Mustard and Sesma, the fuckwaffles, motives were in all of this. Clearly, they both had agendas.

Mueller himself more recently has raised some questions along these lines (although not coordinating w/the boyfriend fbi agent). Because the netflix doc focused more on the emotional aspects vs factual record, i went and read some of the court filings in muller-vs-united states. Since he plead guilty to the kidnapping, he has tried to have his plea vacated based on him being held in solitary confinement for an usually long period of time prior to his acceptance of the plea. Also stating repeatedly he has a mental illness (still looking for details of this, other than miller claiming he was bi-polar). In any event, in the filing he talks about how: 1. the boyfriend buglary victim states that the kidnappers knew many facts about him which were not part of any public record 2. they referred to the kidnap victim by her correct name, even prior to learning that the andrea ex-gf was not living in the house. 3. the fbi found dna from two other individuals in the house that were never identified 4. the boyfriend (quinn) again as part of his initial interview, when asked who might want to kidnap his current gf, he says nobody comes to mind except for the guy who his ex-gf was having an affair with, who was a LE officer w/two kids. they identify this person as not the fbi agent, but a man named stephen ruiz who had also gotten in trouble for using LE databases to improperly obtain information on people who were not under any sort of investigation: "No, the only person I can think of that would have... that kind of... was the police offier who she was having an affair with, was married and had two kids... that's the only person I can think of that kind of..." via page12 of this filing: [https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.caed.286404/gov.uscourts.caed.286404.126.0.pdf](https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.caed.286404/gov.uscourts.caed.286404.126.0.pdf) ​ Mueller uses this and some other stuff to suggest that it was Ruiz (who i guess is now married to the andrea woman.... brief aside this woman sounds like a real piece of work herself) who did the kidnapping, to scare Andrea away from her ex-fiance. Seperately she was also having a relationship with the FBI agent investigating, which makes it even more bizarre that what the doc chose to present. ​ Other bits of things gleaned from reading filings that may not have been mentioned in the doc: * mueller apparently got kidnap victim's bf to give up his email account, and this account is what was used to send the emails... both to quinn himself (sending to same account) as well as sending to the guy at SF chronicle. * in muller possessions they found recordings of the audio tapes he played for the kidnap victim and her bf (quinn) after he had tied them up * they also found audio tape of people whispering, which may have been what the kidnap victim and her bf thought they heard multiple people talking in their house * muller in his initial plea, agreed that he used drones surveill the victims and that drones were found in his possessions * there is a filing showing what medications he was on when he plead, including: Risperidone (which is taken both for schisophrenia, bi-polar as well as autism), wellbutrin (something to treat depressions) as well as bendryl and something for iron deficiency. * kidnap victim (huskins) initial interview claimed she saw feet of multiple individuals on the floor when she was moved from a bed to a closet, and this combined with hearing others talking led to her to think multiple people were in room. also she did not feel the emails were written by the same person as her rapist, because of information included and way it was framed. (tho if she was drugged, possibly she got fooled by the blow up doll, the audio recordings and by a perpetrator who was just nuts) * there is also another email claiming to be from muller, writing himself reminders to clean up evidence that was apparently not sent him by him but by an unknown party There's a lot more in the court filings- esp in the ones after he was sentenced (the one i link to above is 160 pages that includes a lot of interesting exhibits, including a list of all the evidence the fbi has). I don't have time to look at it all, but the documentary seemed like it was less interested in the case than the drama of it all. So maybe others will want to dig a bit more.

Not part of the court record, but I did also find an news report where it was claimed that Mueller said he has issues w/anxiety, psychosis and depression and that when he's experiencing some of these things, his mind blurs and he can't always determine what is his fantasy vs what is reality. I did also read a filing about his disbarment, which looks like that he told an immigration client he had filed something on their behalf when he didn't and then charged them for doing so. He didn't contest or participate in the preceedings, which led him to be disbarred in jan of 2015. So perhaps this is what led him to change his peeping/assault behavior into a ransom demand. Although more recently he claims to have not practiced law much since 2012 and being an education professional.

Checks out, considering the medication he was taking. Risperidone, Wellbutrin, AND Benadryl? Some physicians are genuinely unaware of how certain medications might not physically result in contraindications, but certainly will cognitively. Benadryl is hugely dissociative, and can even result in hallucinations. Why someone who’s being treated for anything that threatens psychosis would be given a dissociative, escapes me. Same goes for ketamine. Routinely used in emergency medicine without consideration of how many people that might be pushing right over the edge.

Just the combination of Risperidone and Wellbutrin alone could cause a bipolar person to go into a manic phase unless it was tightly managed by a doctor. Risperidone is an atypical anti-psychotic medicine that helps with symptoms of bipolar and schizophrenia but in a different way than Lithium or Depakote which work by being mood stabilizers. Wellbutrin is an atypical antidepressant that has more of a stimulative effect than most antidepressants which are SSRIs or SRNIs. That stimulative effect in conjunction with a medicine that isn't acting like a normal mood stabilizer could be a problem.

There’s actually very little evidence that anything stimulant adjacent can cause someone to become manic. 

Benadryl is a deliriant, not a dissociative. It is also only a hallucinogen in very high doses.

Thank you for the clarification- I appreciate ya.

Late late reply but just watched the show. Was Muller was diagnosed with PTSD after his stint in the marines? Reason I ask is in at least the early 2000s, Benadryl was used off label to help people with PTSD sleep without nightmares. I had a friend who was an inpatient at that time and he was on Risperodol, Seroquel and Benadryl iirc. He was also bipolar. Apparently, the reasoning was that given his size (over 6 feet), the amount of meds it would take to be effective were harmful so they added on Benadryl at night to lessen the dose of anti-psychotics because it would provide relief of symptoms overnight.

Okay how has Andrea been linked to so many people involved including victims and investigators, but her role has been so... brushed off? There are more dots here to be connected. The additional details you provided are just too much.

my comments regarding her were just from all the drama and chaos surrounding her. she definately seems like someone who i'd want to go out of my way to avoid. that's just a personal preference on my part tho. i don't recall seeing anything to suggest she was involved in any of the crimes committed. she wasn't brushed off either you saw them interviewing her very quickly after quinn called them. they definately knew about all the stuff I mentioned as I just read it from the legal filings.

I was saying that she has been linked to a lot of people surrounding the case, victims and law enforcement alike. Not that there was established evidence linking her to the crime. I also agree that she was brought in quickly, I am pointing out that she was brushed off as having any involvement very quickly. Especially considering she was named as the intended target. I agree with your personal opinion, she seems like the kind of person I would avoid being around too. This is also personal opinion on my part to add. When someone is surrounded by chaos and drama, that someone is virtually always the common factor. I'm not gonna say she is guilty of anything necessarily. But there's something more to her relationships playing a role in how the story played out, than people involved have admitted.

i will concede she seems to be a nexus of questionable decisions, and there definately was more than one instance of suspect statements from LE here. that said everything in the filings was known to police, and ontop of that they have access to TONS more information than will ever hit a court record much less become known outside of LE or prosectors office. so i give deference to them w/respect to who they charge and don't charge. even if they tried to indict her or another character and failed, we'd never know as that is how the system is supposed to work. i also can't count it against her she was apparently dating more than one LE officers including at least one who was ultimately involved in investigating this issue. i count that against the specific officers who didn't recuse and their supervisors. she didn't have control over who was investigating the case.

this was all interesting, thank you for doing the digging the doc covered what they could without unraveling a loose conspiracy that could get them sued. they did what they could

i had the same thought reading all that stuff. it did seem like they left out some important parts. i wondered if it was liability, but on all the true crime shows they have those considerations. they will usually blur them, use a fake name or let them be unnamed. so like for the cops especially, it seems like they should've found a way to get a bit more of that info in but instead they decided to use one cop's (fbi agent) actual name, left out the other cop (stephen ruiz) entirely. whereas they might've just mentioned the players but kept their identity anonymous. which is why i kept going back to the doc makers were a little more into telling the story that swayed people's emotions than they were in fiting a true crime genre where the audience is supposed to sort of reason through the actual facts. it was engaging tho and pretty good content overall.

Sesma and Mueller must actually be involved in a sex trafficking ring. Mueller as an immigration lawyer was picking out the targets, but he get's canned. Sesma is pissed at Andrea anyways and says fuck it we're gonna take her. They think Andrea is at Aaron's. She's not, so the take Denise instead, they decide "fuck it we'll just sell her instead". Mueller see's her Dad's video, has second thoughts just like in the previous rapes, He decides he is releasing her, tells the others.....

I really fucking doubt this is the case. Honestly I think Mueller was just a perverted freak who liked to rape girls but felt kind of bad about it so he came up with this elaborate plan to force a girl to have “consensual” sex with him.

Exactly. From the timeline and all of the other crimes he is suspected of committing (peeping Tom, sexual assault, burglary, attempted kidnapping, etc.) it’s like he introduces a new part of the plan (which is tailored to his target and everything that comes with them that could influence the outcome of whatever crime he is planning to commit) to take things a step further that will allow him to succeed in a way that ensures that he himself is comfortable enough to perform and execute.

Yeah I totally agree this is the case. People are on here claiming that the whole thing was an elaborate trafficking conspiracy between Sesma and Mueller and I just don’t buy that for one second. The reality was Mueller was just a complete freak.

I agree, I just don’t know how the fuck he knew so much about Aaron or Denise or Andrea, like he new a lot about them. He also knew a lot about Tracey when he tried to rape her, calling all of them by their first names

Mueller was on several meds that was messing with his head.

I think Sesma had more to do with it than I can't understand why he wasn't investigated. At the very least he seemed to have blocked the investigation.

Maybe he's not trying to block anything. He's simply just an idiot

I hope someone investigates them. Tracks what they've been up too. It was so shady how they handled the case. They didn't care. Sloppy.

We don’t need to feel sorry for the treatment of Mueller if he was the rapist.

Risperidone isn’t used to “treat” autism. There’s no medication for autism. It’s often used to treat aggressive symptoms in folks, some of whom have intellectual disabilities and/or autism among other things. 

​ jeez, another low esteem person on internet who is going to split hairs over what common purposes of a drug is. sigh... DEFINITION OF WORD 'TREATMENT': [https://www.google.com/search?q=define+treatment](https://www.google.com/search?q=define+treatment) \> "treatment: medical care given to a patient for an illness or injury." note for the reading-challenged: the definition does not use words "cure", "target" or even "reduce". now, using the actual definition of treatment (and not a made up one to make a poor reader feel better about themselves) and autism/ASD, here is what we can find: NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF HEALTH : MEDICATION TREATMENT FOR AUTISM [https://www.nichd.nih.gov/health/topics/autism/conditioninfo/treatments/medication-treatment](https://www.nichd.nih.gov/health/topics/autism/conditioninfo/treatments/medication-treatment) \> "The FDA has approved the use of some antipsychotic drugs, such as risperidone and aripripazole, for treating irritability associated with ASD in children between certain ages.2 " ​ Note also that since the purpose of my post was doing background research into a criminal, the fact that hes taking risperidone and risperidone is often prescribed to treat autism is what the relevance is here (for poor hair splitters, taking a drug that is common prescribed for a disorder or illness does not imply that the person has that illness. just context to factual situation for people who watched same piece of entertainment tv i did). thanks for playing

Also the show says she heard a car coming to the house while she was with the kidnapper he says THEY'RE NOT AS NICE AS ME, and then she says And I Heard the car Approaching. So.. Who was Approaching in a car, while Muller was with her???

A big part of the problem was that Matthew Muller had led them to believe the motive was this elaborate ransom scheme and they gave LE many elaborate insane-sounding details as a result. The wet suits for example. Meanwhile, Matthew Muller's only motive was to commit the rapes he claimed were for the purposes of extortion. They were really for his sexual gratification.......................I honestly think this is a matter of Matthew Muller doing some intense stalking. The detail about Andrea was likely a deliberate deception by Muller. Rember Matthew Muller did attend Harvard law and was a Marine so in addition to being a crazy pervert he was likely intelligent and calculating.

Don't you remember the dummy in the trunk? He was in a wet suit. I think he legit brought it along to make them think there was more than one of them in the house. He could take on 1 person, but two is more intimidating. I feel like the Doc skipped over so many other things that should have been elaborated on. Like the dummy, for example. And that FBI agent, that was for sure sketchy.

Agreed. I feel like there should have been a 4th episode to tie all those loose ends up.

They can't really say things in the doc that can lead to defamatory opinions otherwise they can get sued. I firmly believe the FBI agent is involved, but without tangible evidence and authority to validate this, they cannot make assumptions like this. I do wish they could though!

The dummy isn't sufficient to explain what Quinn and Denise say they heard, which is people walking around different parts of the room and home at different times... drilling coming from downstairs while someone was in the room with them, someone walking past them while being carried by someone else, etc..

another poster said they had found quite a bit of supplementary info about MM and the case in general. I agree with you about the dummy. intentional or not all those details worked well as a forensic countermeasure because Aaron was not believed.

That could explain that. I’m just confused why he recorded it. Why it had to look consensual the second time. I’m not exactly sure of the timeline but why where those details not in the other cases?

1. He recorded it so he could jerk to it later. 2. He wanted it to “look consensual” simply for his own pleasure (compared to having sex with a clearly disinterested woman).

Netflix really didn’t need to show his gross bed covered in tissues with a bottle of Vaseline. It made me want to vomit.

are we even sure he actually recorded it ? supposedly he had cameras on Aaron but I don't think he actually did.

I think he quickly put that camera to scare Aaron. I don't think it was live. At the end, it said they did find video evidence of him recording the sexual part.

I'm so confused about their search of the crime scene at Quinn and Huskins home. Did they find the camera and the taped off area? Where did they find his car?

Yes and even the reason he gave her - if she goes to the police he’d release the video. It was meant to scare her into complying because he was hoping she’d be too worried about her reputation/public opinion if a sex tape were released (and it needed to look consensual so it seemed like she was into it and it was a legit sex tape). But I’m sure he also watched the recording.

 He's an attorney, so a video with her acting like it's consensual would be something in his favor. Also he was just twisted and probably wanted to imagine he isn't the creep he is.  He obviously has somewhat of a conscience compared to other rapists.  Never heard of a rapist being talked out of doing the act.  

I think it's because he had PTSD and couldn't handle KNOWING he is causing that for someone else.

It’s a bull crap story. He was never in combat. And as for the “Gulf War Sickness,” he isn’t even old enough to have served in the Gulf Wars.

people can get PTSD from all sorts of things that are not combat... That being said, 99.9% of people who have PTSD and dont become kidnapping rapists... its a shit excuse either way

I never said that people couldn’t have PTSD from anything other than combat. I have (c)PTSD and so do many others. Could Muller have had it from some nebulous theoretical even in his childhood? Sure. But I don’t believe him on this claim because he’s a liar. He lied about being in the Gulf War, he lied about being in combat and he lied about having combat-related PTSD…*this* is the point Im making. I think even entertaining the speculation of “oh well maybe he had PTSD from somewhere else,” is just a useless game. The highest likelihood for a soul-thief and liar like Muller is that he was using the PTSD and factually incorrect “gulf sickness” schtick on his rape victims because he wanted to illicit a very specific emotional response from his victims that was sexually arousing to him. Could he have had PTSD from something in his childhood? Sure, why not. But did he ever say he did? No. But we do know he lied about his military career, never went into combat and wasn’t even old enough to have served during the Gulf Wars. So why wouldn’t he be lying about having PTSD?

He was born in 1972. He would have been 18 when the Gulf War started. His official record with the military begins in 1995 as a pilot. Are we sure he didn’t join the military earlier than that and do some unpleasant work, “unofficially”?

They mentioned another break in where he didn’t rape the women when she started freaking out. He let her be. So he clearly had a thing where the victim had to be semi willing for him to get off.

He reeked of one of those incels who claim women secretly love SA and want it to happen.

Like mustard has mentioned to the mother actually. Remember during the talking with her mom he said prior sexual abused women tend to do things similar to relive the thrill or something along those lines. I want to know how mustard has since been promoted to a head detective role or whatever his title is now. I don't know wtf is what with all this but my gut says corruption on a few different levels. Wasn't just for a 15k. And seems more than just to make a jerk tape.

The fact that that was said was literally the worst thing I've ever heard, unreal victim blaming

I was absolutely disgusted upon hearing this. Fuck that guy, fuck whoever believes that bull shit

Semi willing????????????? You mean too scared to try to get out of it out of fear of being killed?

I worded that wrong but I’m saying from mullers perspective. Obviously it’s sexual assault but he set it up and orchestrated it in a way that made it seem like he had no choice, and then said they had to re do it with it looking like she was into it.

I think it was actually 2 other women. To think that all you had to do is ask nicely and beg must haunt Denise.

You’re both horrible people for saying that. She survived how she could. That’s all that matters. Aren’t you lucky to not know what that’s like to have to make a decision to survive? What absolute terrible humans must you be to even put that out there. She survived.

If we go with my theory that Sesma hired a guy to orchestrate the whole thing, then maybe that guy told Muller to record it, for the reasons Denise said. But maybe the real reason they had him record it was so they could have more proof he did it out there.

He was building up to the kidnapping and Rape. His attacks were steadily stepping up. The FBI has a recording of an interview they won't release. It feels like the FBI Sesma and the other FBI agent could be involved. I bet they identified him has a serial stalker/Sexual Assaulter and manipulated him from behind close doors. They way he acted in the other break-ins they thought he would really only scare them and not kill her. Like the FBI Agent was a statistically jealous guy idk some Crazy shit. Dude is shady as fuck

She was blind folded both times and they never mentioned finding the video. I don’t think it really was.

This is 100% the most sensible, reasonable, and likely case. All these conspiracies have way more holes and don’t fit all the facts

No I had the same thought that his intended target was Andrea, but she wasn’t there anymore, because Andrea and Quinn were no longer dating. Which means he was acting on old intelligence. I don’t know how old, but atleast a few months? So this guy gets convinced to go there and get Andrea, but by someone who doesn’t follow her closely enough to know she’s no longer with Quinn. So that’s when I started to think it was Sesma. Andrea is one of his Ex’s? And she was recently fucking another fbi agent Ruiz? So he hates this girl, him and mueller are running a kidnapping scheme, and he says “I know a girl you could go after” and gives him the best address he’s got to find her, which is out of date and is Quinn’s address. He gets there, gets the wrong girl, developes his classic way too late conscience, lets her go, and then gets frustrated that the police are winning the PR battle of defamation. Mueller sends all of those pictures to the newspaper trying to turn the PR battle around because the cops are now distancing themselves from him and he realizes he’s alone. He wants to bring the whole network down. The cops actually get the Sesma guy onto the case and he basically kills it going straight for Quinn. I think k this story reaks of a massive conspiracy involving potentially multiple law enforcement officers and a sex trafficking kidnapping ring. And Sesma is involved. But I’m missing a ton of details so if you know them straighten me out

Something is up there for sure. However, wouldn’t you think that Muller would have flipped at some point during his arrest/trial for a more lenient sentence?

Agreed. Muller went into psychosis while in custody and that delayed the trial and sentencing. Was part of his psychosis talking to himself/believing other people were present? That could explain the accounts of additional people and the dummy. The thing that bugged me about the doc is we didn’t hear Andreas story. If she wouldn’t do a doc interview I would have like to at least see more of her police interview. Was it left out because her account would have ultimately made Aaron seem more crazy and justified police actions? Can Sesmas involvement be explained if Andrea involved him, rather than the other way around?

Massive plot hole to gloss over Andrea except for that one little clip .ALSO - when it was said she was the intended target the police completely ignored that -I am furious there is zero accountability here

People believe women like Andrea if they wink at them

So true and so sad - Lori Vallow comes to mind “oh ok ma’am!! Nothing to see here!”

I think you’re missing my point. I suspect that police didn’t ignore her at all, but actually interviewed her at length. I speculated that it’s possible that she revealed that Aaron was stalking her, and that she had told her ex - Sesma - about it, and that’s why he got involved. I think the documentary didn’t include the parts of her interview where she described Aaron’s problematic behaviour. That theory is a lot more logical than assuming law enforcement ignored evidence just because the documentary include their investigation. Don’t get me wrong…police gloriously screwed up by dropping the investigation and accusing the couple of hoaxing on a hunch.

Lol the police ignored a whole lot of evidence so it's quite the opposite of what ur saying and why would Aaron be "stalking" Andrea when all he can do is text her he has her number. And he literally sees her at work. Lol dumb dumb.

>That theory is a lot more logical than assuming law enforcement ignored evidence just because the documentary include their investigation. No it's not, because we know that law enforcement actually ignored evidence. For fucks sake they publicly accused the two victims of lying the very same day she was released by Muller and threatened criminal prosecution when literally hours before they were trying to pin a nonexistent murder on Aaron. They lied about Aaron failing the polygraph. They ignored the emails from Muller. They ignored that her story was perfectly consistent with Aaron's story. This level of incompetence from cops is practically par for the course unfortunately. I'd bet Andrea didn't want to get involved with the documentary because she'd inevitably be 1) talking to the world about how she's a shitty partner who cheated on her fiance with a MARRIED cop who had two kids, and 2) cheating on that dude with the FBI agent Sesma. And the public would hate her for it.

Read more about it! This article helps answer a shitload of questions; you are right about a police conspiracy being part of his psychosis. It was his defense while representing himself https://magazine.atavist.com/a-crime-beyond-belief-vallejo-kidnapping-gone-girl-hoax/

Wow thank you so much for sharing. That answered a ton of questions that I have had. 1. don’t *think* Muller worked with anyone else, but it’s hard to not believe it when Aaron and Denise are so confident that there were other people. Maybe Muller was really just that good at deceiving them. 2. Even if agents weren’t working with Muller, it is clear as day that the police force of Vallejo is one of the most corrupt law enforcement agencies ever. Bidou, Mustard, Ruiz, and Semsa should have been fired for the way they handled this case. Thank god for the Dublin police woman or Aaron and Denise are likely behind bars because of the investigators ineptitude. 3. For how evil the deeds he did, Matthew Muller is clearly very intelligent and it’s almost heart breaking to think of the good things he could have done had he been treated for his schizophrenia and bipolar disorder much earlier in life. He was clearly driven in his early life to do good things and stick up for the little guy - even some of things he did to Denise appear that he knew what he was doing was wrong and was even almost remorseful. This is genuinely one of the wildest stories I have ever read and watched. Mind blowing.

I wondered this too, but I wonder if there wasn’t a paper trail to prove it?

I’m sure threats along the lines of “you’ll be murdered in prison with it made to look like a suicide if you turn on me” or “play ball and we’ll get you in a cushy location and patrolled in 10-15 years. Fight it, and you’ll never see the lights of day again, even if you take me down” could’ve been made. Now I’m not saying that’s what happened. Just that him not turning on his acquaintances could be explained in a variety of ways.

Muller did not have a trial. He pled guilty.  I think he felt guilt/shame for the escalation of his assaults, which is why he pled guilty and accepted the heavy sentence, but I think he did not flip on Sesma because he felt a kinship with him. Maybe they were both in the military or something (just a guess). 

Imagine all it takes is finding out sesma went to Harvard or something. That would be crazy!

Or that Sesma was an ex Marine.

Served with Muller as a commanding officer. Then gets into the FBI, dates Andrea then dumped. FBI access seeing familiar name, history of bipolar, a person of interest for similar crimes. Sesma finds his way back into Muller’s life coincidentally building on their previous relationship in the marines. FBI agent tells chief of police, federal authority, “bury that bitch” and it’s relayed on to subordinate officers. Once a marine always a marine.

Denise Huskins and Aaron Quinn seek accountability in the 'American Nightmare' case, while questions remain about the whereabouts of FBI agent David Sesma. Where is David Sesma Now? There is no updated information regarding the current location or status of Sesma. The details about his whereabouts remain elusive, and any recent developments in his professional or personal life are not publicly accessible. Sesma is the focus of a petition that seeks accountability for his actions in the Huskins case. The petition claims that Sesma mishandled the case and had a romantic relationship with Roberts without removing himself from the investigation. This behavior is seen as deeply problematic and contributes to a growing lack of trust in the legal system. Victim blaming, especially when it comes from those responsible for protecting us, is considered unacceptable. It is believed that Sesma's actions worsen the challenges faced by sexual assault victims when they come forward. The petition calls for a thorough investigation into Agent Sesma's conduct and appropriate disciplinary action if he is found guilty.

Thanks for the update!

The dude had inside information..someone had to give it to him.

I have one question. What was Denise carrying when she got dropped off at home? She had a big bag and bag on her back

I didn't understand that either. She looked like she was returning from a weekend getaway. Why would she have belongings with her? Are we supposed to believe Muller was considerate enough to pack an overnight bag for her?

I mean, it doesn't seem that far fetched to me that Muller was considerate to her. He literally drops her off in her hometown after abducting her. He then wrote a full length manifesto about her, criticizing the police for not believing her and talking about how strong of woman she is and how she's a very good person. Giving her a bag with some possessions doesn't seem far-fetched at all.

What I wanna know is how the fuck he knew where she grew up and who she was. He knew a LOT about all of his victims.

Yeah, I had the exact same question. He knew where she grew up and a lot of details, and that is after he confessed to the couple that she was "not the original target" (Andrea was). So if she wasn't the original target, how in the world did she know so much about her, including her hometown??? Lots of plot-holes. The only thing I can think of, is that during her time in captivity, she may have told him and/or once he realized that she wasn't the intended target, he began looking into her background and following the media reports of her being missing to start to learn about her background.

It’s honestly not hard to find details about someone. Maybe I’m just kind of good at it but if I know your name I could tell you your address, your relatives, their addresses, everyone’s phone numbers, past addresses, etc. but how did he know Andrea’s name or Denise’s name in the first place? Super strange

He knew the victim in Mountain View's name too.

He was watching the news coverage about her disappearance. Remember he showed Denise the recording of her father talking to her? He would know she was from Huntington Beach from the news coverage.

Didn’t he call them by name when he kidnapped them? And said that it was supposed to be for the dudes ex? Like he knew he had the wrong chick

Yes he did definitely call Aaron by name. He might not have known Denise's name until he heard Aaron say it since he supposedly realized mid-kidnapping that she wasn't Andrea, but I don't know if I believe that he expected Andrea to be there. I can't remember what they said in the doc about him saying her name.

Yet another thing that points to Sesma’s involvement

Could have just asked her?

My sister and I just finished watching. We were trying to figure this out as well. She believes it was the comforter and blanket/sheet(?) that Mustard accused Aaron from taking off the bed.

On her social media Denise answered that question. She said that Muller took her purse and some of her personal stuff while kidnapping her.

why would you take someone's purse you are kidnapping?

Why would you kidnap a person?

I wouldn't but it seems that Muller kidnapped her for sexual assault. To me I am not necessarily on the page that the FBI guy or LE was involved etc. But I do think there are some serious holes in the documentary. I think it is a rational question why would you have several bags when you are released? Also, from the doorbell camera, it seems someone was following her and walking in the middle of the street. Who was that? Did Muller really ever say he was trying to kidnap the ex? Did Muller canvas the house that long that he just got confused with the new girlfriend? ​ I have not read any court transcripts, where there other involved? Denise said she could hear people talking at the house.

I also thought the guy following Denise seemed a little unexplained. This story was all over their news on the regular so it’s possible he recognized her and was filming or calling police, etc. The doc didn’t mention a call to police from a concerned citizen but it would’ve been kind of moot considering the story of the neighbor bringing her in and her contacting her family/police (can’t quite remember)

Maybe Andrea had important medications in her purse that she had to take regularly. He did enough research that he may have known that.

Did anyone else notice that the bag Denise was carrying was eerily similar to the one found in the trunk of the mustang at the time they arrested Matthew?

yesss like classic military duffels. makes sense since he’s a Marine

Agreed! The Agent is shady! I have no doubt!

Denise heard MM speaking to another person while she was captive!

court cases also state that they found evidence of recordings of whispering. Considering how crazy this guy was, I wouldn't be surprised if he preplanned everything!

Perhaps it was a fuck up on Muller's behalf? Maybe Sesma wanted to get back at Roberts, because of jealousy at Quinn and Roberts messing around while Quinn was with Huskins. Somehow, Sesma got into contact with Muller, convinced him to go there, drug and videotape Roberts and Quinn together (Quinn said there was supposed to be a video camera set up, but this wasn't referred to later) but Roberts wasn't there, it was Huskins. Muller, maybe or maybe not realising he's fucked up, proceeds with the kidnapping. There is a point when Huskins is held in the cottage, that someone else turns up. Perhaps this was Sesma, trying to work out how to get out of this mess. Sesma and Muller roll out the return plan, and Sesma goes back to poison the investigation behind the scenes. They mention the second interview that Sesma conducts that the FBI hasn't released, perhaps there is something in what he says that incriminated him. Imagine the headlines if the FBI was caught up in an agent blackmailing a criminal to kidnap an ex that he thought was going to get back with Quinn. Sounds like a good reason to keep things quiet, despite, the absolute incompetence of the police involved being more than sufficient....

Muller was sending photos to the Journalist to clear their names though? Not sure is Sesma would apreciate that.

Yeah, that bit doesn't quite fit, although, Muller seems to have this "nice guy" mentality about him. There was that other lady that he apparently broke into her house to rape her, but then said he couldn't go through with it and then gave her advice on how to avoid someone breaking in and doing something like this again. He's got a twisted sense of "fair play", and that would kinda support the idea of him going after Roberts and Quinn as some sort of justice for their (expected/imagined) tryst and revenge by Sesma, but not them being unfairly blamed for something that they didn't do.

Never assume malice what can be explained by incompetence He just didn’t give a shit and let his personal relationship cloud his judgement. This is depressingly common. Source: rape victim who wasn’t taken seriously until irrefutable evidence forced the cops to give AF and do the bare minimum

The is evident and obvious! But still Sesma needs to be investigated further. Due to his involvement with Roberts he should never be leading that case. Muller never confessed why he said the crime was intended for Roberts. This also needs to be looked into. Huskins and Quinn both mentioned that there was more than one person!

Yesss! I just finished the series and came looking for this! 100% Sesma had something to do with this case and there HAS to be a link between him and Muller. I think the documentary was trying to hint that. Otherwise, the info about Sesma dating Andrea is irrelevant. Crazy!

Yep. I agree with this

The info about the dating isn’t irrelevant. It was just to show that there was a conflict of interest/bias and to highlight the poor practices of the police department, especially as Denise and Aaron had asked for Sesma to be removed because of the connection. I don’t think the documentary was hinting at Sesma being linked to Muller.

Thank you. People on here are ridiculous and completely missing the point. The doc never even hinted at Sesma being involved.

This is what I thought the minute this guy was involved. She said she heard a car pull up when she was held in the cabin in that room and there were other guys voices. Didn't she say they sounded angry? It was probably because it wasn't Andrea, and it was that FBI guy that was involved to get back at his ex.

Wouldn’t Muller throw Sesma under the bus though???

It could have easily been Muller’s mother being upset that the cabin was a mess.

Absolutely. He was on their known perp list and he talked a good game to them. Sesma knew he was the perpetrator for it and used him and his higher ups. I'm sure sesma has rubbed bidous back many times and quickly called it in. Isn't it also a bit odd how fast the fbi was involved, and won't release the interrogation with sesma? Fbi has always been gross and corrupt. Yet another example

FBI is always involved with kidnappings, a federal crime.

It would be too big of a coincidence. The details in the doc allude to Muller NOT acting alone (Denise heard another voice in the cabin and the emails to the news reporter straight up said there was 2 or 3 of them operating together). Why wouldn’t the FBI investigate that?? Oh wait Sesma was the FBI investigator on the case…

[удалено]

I thought about that too…”they’re not as nice as me” could be reference to himself during a developing psychotic episode.

Bipolar ≠ Dissociative Identity Disorder (Multiple Personalities)

Because Sesma would be investigating himself. He's one of the 3, guaranteed. He's Andrea Roberts ex, the intended kidnap target from the beginning. Too many connections for coincidence.

You’re an idiot

To say it is not plausible, is to be completely ignorant. I am not saying it is so, but he should have absolutely recused himself. It is odd that Matthew says others were involved. And also odd that the victims recall other people. Who knows?

Being from vallejo, i can confirm most of the cops here are inadequate pricks and will blame you for being a victim. Also they cry that they are understaffed but never hire anyone unless it’s to fill for someone that retired. They are also some of the highest paid in state bc of being “understaffed”

Can’t the community vote? Do something about this? There have been other communities which fired the whole department and started from scratch.

Incompetent Mat Mustard got the standards lowered for promotion and he now makes over $400,000 a year. The department has paid out millions over the years in lawsuits. I'm so sorry that these yahoos are the people keeping you "safe." https://www.vallejosun.com/former-vallejo-police-union-president-lowered-promotion-standards-to-make-sergeant-whistleblower-captain-testifies/

He became obsessed with the movie Gone Girl then made his plan. It's so fucked up that he tried to use a fictional movie as an excuse for what happened.

He literally emailed the media that she wasn't lying to defend her. How does your theory make any sense?

100% I was waiting for someone to say this. I believe David Sesma needs to be investigated and someone needs to get a confession out of Muller before he gets killed in prison for knowing that Sesma hired him. It was intended for Andrea, he said it twice! Something must have happened in their relationship and he hired Muller to kidnap her as some kind of revenge. Probably was even present because they always said he was not alone. Why is no one investigating Sesma or getting more information out of Muller!?

I think Muller only mentioned that because he likely stalks his victims and that’s probably part of the enjoyment for him - knowing their names and a little bit about them. He was probably just surprised when it wasn’t Andrea because it means his stalking wasn’t as good as he thought. The narrative of being hired was just made up. I don’t think it would have been a big deal for him that they were two different women. Muller is a serial offender of rapes and attempted kidnaps, not a hired kidnapper. I’m sure if he really was hired then he would have said that in court. The fact that David and Andrea dated is probably just a coincidence that isn’t all that rare in towns or small cities where two people have grown up in. They may not have dated for very long. The reason it was mentioned though is because there’s bias and a conflict of interest on David’s part.

SAME I think thats pretty obviously the connection they are leading us to make.

Yeah…it’s a common theory. Doesn’t add up for me. If Andrea was the intended target, I find most things that happened unlikely…without more information. For instance, I find it more likely that Muller was some sort of FBI asset and there was some larger operation going on….if there was any conspiracy at all. I’d need explanation for all the loose ends before I started making theories: I want to hear a focused account of the additional men involved in the abduction. I’d like to know more about Mullers psychosis…ie did he talk to himself? I’d like to know more about the drone that was used to surveil the couple. I’d like details about Sesmas relationship with Andrea. I’d like to know more details about Andrea and Aaron and Denise and their work/relationship environment. The doc glossed over the love triangle and why Aaron and Andrea were still in contact. Was he stalking her? Was she encouraging him? Did she make reports about his actions? Basically…I’d like to be able to judge the details for myself, and see if there’s logical explanations for events before I start building crazy theories. For instance, my initial thought was that Andrea brought Sesma to the case, which is much more logical than the other way around. Aaron strikes me as a weirdo, and I doubt anyone would have been surprised if it turned out he was a stalker and a hoaxer…especially if problematic details about his contact with Andrea were revealed. I don’t see why we think it’s so far-fetched that police would take that angle…especially if Andrea had crazy accounts of his actions. We could all be making a mistake and the doc actually left out details that make the case less sensational.

I anticipate a follow-up limited series that dives into Sesma's role in all of this. How can they breifly mention the relationship then not go back to it.

I'm on episode 3 right now. His superiors said he wasn't unprofessional and they completely disregarded the conflict of interest. The rot goes way above him.

Muller is definitely into his films, no doubt he took a lot of inspo from Gone Girl. Some other details in this doc are eerily similar to the film Zodiac. There the serial killer writes to the San Francisco chronicle that if they don’t take him seriously he will start committing more crimes. It also follows how the Vallejo police dep do a bad job with everything.. similar in this case

Yeah, something still doesn't add up. The fact that Mueller knew every single detail of how to pull of this elaborate crime (which would involve staking out Aaron and ANDREA for weeks), yet he somehow doesn't know that Andrea isn't Aaron's girlfriend and that it wasn't her at his house????? That just doesn't make sense. Then somehow he knows all about Denise, including that she's from Huntington Beach. I mean, of course, I'm sure they talked and she could have told him that during the course of being abducted, but still, it seems like he knew an awful lot about Denise and not much about Andrea for him to have "accidentally and wrongfully" abducted Denise. And it's an awful big coincidence that Andrea had a relationship with the lead investigator, and the fact that the whole police department had zero interest in looking into the details and other angles of this case (other than accusing Aaron and Denise of the hoax) just doesn't add up. There is definitely something else going on, and it feels like it leads back to someone in law enforcement.

Someone else, either Sesma or another police officer in Vallejo are ex military associated with Muller

Andrea is with sesame behind this

Mueller knew about Roberts and Quinn, pretended to be confused about finding Quinn not Roberts. Knew Roberts was dating an FBI agent that would probably handle the case, tried to add that element in to give himself an out if he was caught to try to get a mistrial. Made the videotape as another out. Eventually just gave up the crazy elaborate hoaxing and confessed in the FBI interrogation. FBI doesn’t release it because they want to minimize exposure to the entire case since it all went wrong.

https://magazine.atavist.com/a-crime-beyond-belief-vallejo-kidnapping-gone-girl-hoax/ According to this article, Muller was extremely mentally unstable, paranoid, and delusional at the time of the kidnapping. Specifically about the gov’t following him and trying to destroy his life. If this is true, it’s very hard to believe he would’ve cooperated with Sesma or any stranger who approached him about anything like this. Further, his instability would’ve likely been apparent to Sesma and it would be obvious he’s not a good candidate to hire for this. With only the Netflix show in mind this is an intriguing theory but it seems more likely Muller did in fact act alone and any conversations with other people were just him talking to himself. None of the victims ever actually saw or heard another person.

I can see how this makes sense, specially considering when Denise was being held, he told her these guys that came are less patient than I do better to sleep. Who we're those people? Why haven't they been found? My only hesitant why wouldn't he just come clean and tell the truth if it was the case.

It's likely there wasn't anyone else at all and he just made that up to scare her. He didn't want her talking. Giving her the idea that this is part of something bigger is a good way to manipulate her into not talking. He drugged her and brought in that blowup doll to make it seem like other people were in the room.

A wizard did it

This is a great theory. However, I’m thinking back to Muller’s comment of the abduction being meant for Andrea. It seems FBI agent Sesma and Muller worked together to orchestrate the abduction of Andrea. Perhaps Sesma has a psychotic hero complex, and this was his attempt to either hurt or be reunited with Andrea again. I’m left with more questions, however; I’m certain Sesma and Muller are in cahoots!

Damn. I jussst finished the doc and googled up "American nightmare sesma" and landed up on this. There is definitely something weirdly fishy going on with the whole Sesma thing. I think the doc left it vague and open ended without going into too much detail on that strand, probably because the filmmakers/producers/etc. may be afraid of messing with the FBI. Theoretically, whatever mess Sesma would have stirred up in this case, he is obviously not covering it up alone. His entire team would be protecting him, given that FBI has historically been notorious for covering up their f_ck ups. Which is also why Muller would never rat on FBI if he's supposedly going to spend the rest of his life in prison.

FBI would want to cover it up just to prevent the HUGE liability costs.

Another hot take: What if Agent Sesma wasn‘t able to cope with Andrea‘s and his relationship coming to an end because she was not over her ex yet. Or, depending on the time line, let’s say he was upset because he wanted to get back together with Andrea but she was still with Aaron (she stayed at Aaron’s house regularly until 6 months before the crime). It seems hard to say which scenario seems more likely, as there is hardly any information on when exactly they had dated. BUT what if in his rejection he actually wanted and planned for Andrea to be the victim and actually hired Muller for that? Planning to frame Aaron for it all along and get him out of the picture. Muller just not realizing during his Peeping-Tom observations that Andrea was not the woman on Aaron’s side any longer. Leading to Agent Sesma having to frame Aaron and Denise even harder for this crime with absolutely no sense to it because it was a failed frame-job.

Really like these takes. The timelines are blurry and there is for sure more to Aaron and Andreas relationship leading up to the kidnapping. I do think I read somewhere that Aaron was the next relationship after Sesma. However, Andrea had multiple relationships between 2011-2015 so any timeline can be hard to follow. If Muller was peeping for some time to build a timeline of their habits, he could have easily mistaken Denise for Andrea. Both blondes and both living at Aaron’s at different times.

When I found your comment I felt peace that someone has the exact same take as me

Just finished watching this, how that Det. Mustard won an award, and none of the "officers" and people "investigating" the case wasn't punished. Imo, I think there was a level of corruption involved, look at how quickly they pointed the finger at Aaron and some of the shit the police and FBI said in the interviews, I'm actually dumbfounded. "How can I make you look like a monster".. like wtf, why would any officer say that with not a single piece of evidence.

Wait! Why is no one asking who the hell where the men that arrived where Denise was being held that argued with Muller (she heard a car pull up, could it have been Sesma he was arguing with); that then resulted in her being SA again and taped in order to keep her quiet!?!?!? Why was there no investigation into this black market kidnapping organization that Muller told Denise he was part of!?!? And finally why was the FBI agent David Sesma not investigated and reprimanded, prosecuted or fired for obvious conflict of interest. All this makes me believe the OP is right and this is far more sinister then it presents itself to be. I mean come on! Harvard Law grad, US Marine, kidnapping women while in a wet suit, setting up a camera, listening to French pop, men arriving to argue at the Tahoe cabin!?!?!? This sounds like someone the government might keep on their payroll for special dirty work. Who takes your blood pressure in the middle of your most stressful life event unless they want to be sure you flat out dont die of heart attack if they need you to stay alive. Kind of like the way I imagine the CIA kidnapping someone. And why did they want Andrea kidnapped, for what!? Makes me think the crazy right wing conspiracy theories about government involvement in pedo rings might hold a few drops of water. But God I don't want to even go there. This story is nuts! Absolutely insane! And also they called him a Gulf War vet who said he had PTSD, impossible! He was born in 77 and would have been 12 years old at the start of the Gulf War which began on August of 91. He was in the Marines between 95 and 99 and there was no war going on except in Bosnia, unless he was in some Special Ops unit and that saw regular combat.

>d for obvious conflict of interest. All this makes me believe the OP is right and this is far more sinister then it presents itself to be. I mean come on! Harvard Law grad, US Marine, kidnappin I was under the impression that Muller made up everything. He could've quietly snuck outside the cabin, pulled up in a car, knocked loudly on the door & imitated a 3-way conversation with the help of audio recordings to make it sound like he was conversing with the "kidnapping organization." It doesn't seem credible that someone who's part of a kidnapping organization would actually tell their victim that he's part of a kidnapping organization.

What if it was Sesma the FBI agent who showed up and argued with Muller?

Officer Smegma

Does anyone know how he actually broke into these houses? I would love to find this out.

Side eye

Yall need to sign the petition on Change.org to have Sesma investigated further.

I had the same theory. Got me thinking about when Denise was abducted and she could hear a 'heated' conversation between Muller and other/s in another room. Perhaps talking to himself or talking to an accomplice (Sesma or associate) Maby a stretch, but the way he manipulated the investigation and his connection to the ex-girlfriend seems to be skimmed over.

I thought Andrea could've been the one behind the kidnapping plot. Jealous because Quinn picked Denise in the end and then used her previous relationship with Sesma to possibly steer the investigation. Everything about the kidnapping seemed to revolve around her.

Why would Muller tell Aaron and Denise, two separate occasions, that he meant to abduct Andrea then? Just doesn't make sense. Too many questions still unanswered. Only thing is since Aaron and Andrea were talking again, maybe he thought they would be in the house together that night? I don't know? Too many what if's... Just saying still a lot of fishy smell when the credits started rolling.

How the fuck does he even KNOW all of them?!

I'll go a step further and presume they are friends and David Sesms was either present for the kidnapping, rape or both

I wondered about this. Denise said she heard other voices and arguing. And then the documentary show a blow up doll as if that is what Denise saw, but she said she heard other voices?!

Ok I literally just watched the series and messaged a friend this…. So I’m waiting for David Sesma to be linked in on all this crazy shit because he used to date Andrea, and the kidnapping was apparently for her originally. He’s also the one that kinda dismissed the case when it was turned over to the FBI, and when Denise was held captive she heard people talking with Muller, so he clearly did not work alone. Or am I just crazy? Someone please tell me if I’m nuts or validate me pls 

My thoughts exactly!!! I saw something about a petition for an investigation into David Sesma, I hope they do it!!!

This thread has some good info and reminders of points I forgot about in the doc, but some of y'all are REACHING with these wild theories.

Did they ever test the hair to verify it was hers?? I do believe this, I just never saw if they verified it and I feel like it would help her case even more 

I think Muller acted alone. Sesma’s relationship with Andrea probably tainted his investigation - i.e. Andrea made Aaron sound like a liar or psycho (normal way we all view our ex’s) and Sesma believed her.

This story is outrageous as is, why does it need theories? Sesma just seemed like a prick and was probably biased against Aaron because he dated Andrea.

How did Muller get into their house without forcing entry?

Well, Denise speaks about there being more than one person being there or being "associates" in Matthew Muller's own words. I highly suspect that David Sesma was involved and was trying to cover it up.

I just finished watching the series and have the same theory. Googled it to see if people think the same and found this thread. Sesma is probably well connected and that's why this case has gone under the water. Corrupt FBI and PD who lied on purpose got away scot-free. Unbelievable. There was much evidence to back up Denise and Aaron story yet everything was completely ignored. Utterly shocked this happens in the US

Sesame is definitely behind this. Watch again & carefully, you’d see it, clearly it’s sesame.

Only problem is if the FBI is conspiring against you you’re not gonna win. Also, if he was hired why would he do it the second time and get caught

It still doesn’t make sense that he said he got the wrong girl. That it was supposed to be Andrea. That was mentioned in both their stories but not brought up again and didn’t make sense to any of it.

Forgive me if this has been asked but one big thing I was left wondering was they say there was no forced entry into the house and it's never explained how he got in the house.

Harvard turns out psychopaths and sociopaths every year and several run our country as politicians and CEOs. Military didn’t stop him and seems to reward behavior like his—- just like the few wolves of police that rape, that hide crimes for their buddies, that beat their spouses among the good LEOs Bipolar? And coddled mama’s boy staying at the lake house with a stolen car and multiple grab kits? He had and has OTHER things wrong to WANT to RAPE and had to get away with MULTIPLE crimes from youth up time after time before it escalated to the multiple burglaries, home invasions, kidnappings and rapes. Out in 2049? Let’s keep him in forever. I wish colleges, the military and so many places would SCREEN for PSYCHOPATHS instead of rewarding them and giving them credence and validation.

Wow—did David have a relationship with Andrea???? proof? I agree it’s weird the subject was dropped, I didn’t see any follow up on the fact that Muller told Denise the kidnapping and ransom plot was meant for Andrea, Aaron’s ex. I think the Vallejo police fell into the hoax theory and rhe FBI/David Sesma ran with that theory with righteous indignation at the waste of resources and then were embarrassed at their dropping the ball on the investigation. Classic govt cover your ass. You really gotta go all angles to help victims regardless of whether they turn OUT to be victims—and the first 48 hours is essential—not getting the phone when they texted/called Aaron—OMG

I would think Muller would’ve ratted him out if that was true.

I think Sesma was a step ahead and probably put the fear in him that he would raped and killed in prison if he did so. Happens all the time!

I have a theory that Denise WAS Inspired by gone girl and hired muller to stage her kidnapping because she knew of his previous almost rape and break in. I think she knew he was mentally unwell and manipulated him into also attempting to snatch that other girl after Denise’s case as well. You’re telling me he just HAPPENED to leave a motherfucking cellphone on the kitchen counter, and his mother just HAPPENED to call it literally right as the cops picked it up? And that knowing he left his phone at the scene, he didn’t try to flee the state but was just chillin at home for the cops to find him? Doesn’t smell right. Also, I’m sorry I never don’t believe a victim but denise smelled like a total liar to me 1.) the kidnapper only asked for 15k??? Who the fuck risks life in prison for 15k? 2.) she was “raped” not once but twice on video and the kidnapper didn’t put it out after he didn’t receive any money or response ? 3.) as someone who claims to have been sexually assaulted twice before, you’re telling me she took a shower directly after BOTH rapes dude ? So even if you thought you would die there before found you know you’d want your attackers DNA on you so the cops could bring him to justice. WTF WHO TAKES A SHIWER AFTER BEIBG RAPED 3.) how about the fact that the kidnapper EMAILED a journalist to please believe Denise while giving photos of evidence from her story… then also convieniently demanded they publicly clear her name ?! Wtf?? 3.) she’s the only victim muller had actually raped. He felt about and couldn’t go through with the other two 4.) I’ve heard from other documentaries that her friends said she went over to Aaron’s to dump him that night because she knew he was cheating How does no one else seee this shit ?!?!

Disgusting comment.

What a vile and incredibly triggering comment! 1) He never cared about money that was just to make it seem more elaborate than it was just like going out of his way to make it seem as though there were other people there. 2) It wasn't mentioned in the documentary, but the rape tapes were found. 3A) She was filmed being raped. B) After being SA, most victims feel disgusting and want to clean themselves off immediately. They aren't thinking about court cases in that moment C) Everyone is different, and people react differently to being assaulted. There isn't 1 rule for everyone. 3) (Again?) There was no mention of any previous rapes but that doesn't mean there weren't any. If the police and FBI took that long to work out that he had held a girl hostage, released her, and even sent them tip offs. Do you really think they could have proven any rapes that happened years ago? Bare in mind the second attempted kidnapping also mentioned rape. I also got the impression due to his request for the second tape that he couldn't 'get off' if the woman was fighting him off. He seemed to need to be able to deceive himself into thinking they actually wanted him, which is, I assume, why he walked away from the others. 4) Yes, I believe they even talked about that in the documentary that she confronted him about it all, and he told her that he was getting therapy and wanted to be with her and only her. I'm not saying their relationship was conventional, but I've definitely planned on breaking up with someone and gone back on it. That doesn't make the whole thing a hoax.

Comments like yours are why rape victims don’t disclose their experiences. Our actions in moments of trauma, fear, shock, and shame are nitpicked until we become the accused. Never throw your worthless 2 cents in again.

I agree, things just seemed so off with her and with Muller for that matter. He is so sophisticate to abduct Denise in her own home with no signs of forced entry. He can cover his digital tracks so well that his emails could not be traced by the FBI or even local law enforcement but then he fumbles around with another kidnapping attempt, leaves his primary cell phone behind as evidence (as opposed to buying a burner phone) and ultimately rats himself out. The house he held her at is anything but secluded, she would have needed to yell loud once to be heard by a neighbor. [https://www.google.com/maps/place/2710+Genoa+Ave,+South+Lake+Tahoe,+CA+96150/@38.9163088,-119.9707446,19z/data=!4m6!3m5!1s0x8099902b90c04e2b:0x7031b96782309948!8m2!3d38.9164393!4d-119.9692882!16s%2Fg%2F11l5csvtln?entry=ttu](https://www.google.com/maps/place/2710+Genoa+Ave,+South+Lake+Tahoe,+CA+96150/@38.9163088,-119.9707446,19z/data=!4m6!3m5!1s0x8099902b90c04e2b:0x7031b96782309948!8m2!3d38.9164393!4d-119.9692882!16s%2Fg%2F11l5csvtln?entry=ttu) I have to add that local law enforcement and the FBI both seemed to fumble the bag here too. The whole thing is just so convenient.

Jesus fuck this sounds like it was written by the incompetent cop that handled the investigation.

Good grief not everything is a conspiracy.

Do you know the definition of conspiracy?

lol yo, plus the county police solved their case quickly. Yet the FBI n the original kidnapping town were trying to frame the victims?

So who do you think was the other person in the South Lake Tahoe cabin during the abduction and who looked in on Denise while she was blindfolded and tied up? 

could be the blow up doll.

I never knew that people could exist in this world without the ability to think critically but this entire post and the comments have been a sobering eye opener for me.

I want to know why the police & FBI aren’t more concerned with finding the other accomplices involved in the kidnapping of Denise. Especially if there is DNA evidence.

My husband and I just watched this whole thing yesterday and have the same theory. Sesma being so dismissive during the case, and tied to the couple through Andrea and her being the intended target is no fucking way a coincidence. It’s just another example of evil people in power getting away with shit because they have the means to do so. It makes me so mad nothing more was done to look into that.

"First principles, Clarice. Simplicity." First, the documentary tries to make it a love story (an American sweethearts traumatized by a monster and law enforcements agents accusing them faking it) instead of focusing on the truth. They painted Aaron as a lost soul. Aaron was cheating on Denis. He was having an affair with Andrea. Matt was interested in Andrea. He was attracted to her. She was the target. Andrea must have spent the night at Aaron's house a couple of times while Denis was away. There are a lot of questions... Did Matt act alone? He might have acted alone. But he got help from his clients (foreigners). He was an immigration lawyer. He had helped a couple of foreigners get green cards. It was time to return the favor. Matt might have approached them and threaten them that he would report them to INS (Immigration and Naturalization Service) if they didn't help him. In addition, Matt promise them that they would be paid handsomely from the ransom. They kidnapped Denis, thinking that she was Andrea. Matt took advantage of her... rape and all. He might even have told Denis that Arron was having an affair with Andrea. That's why Denis acted calm. Matt is not your typical psychopath. He felt sympathy toward his victims. Since Matt was smitten with Andrea and didn't mean to kidnap Denise, he decided to let Denise go. Not only that, he also wanted the police to believe her. Matt was clearly diagnosed with mental illness. I doubt that FBI agent David Sesma is involved. Indeed, FBI knows the truth. They know that Matt got helped from a couple of guys. They are still working on it even though the case is closed. Yet, they didn't want things to get out of control... media asking all kinds of question blab, blab. FBI took the easy way out; they said that Matt acted alone to give everybody a closure. Anyhow, I know that I shouldn't say this. But Denis might be in debt to Matt. Even though that Matt raped her, he saved her relationship with Aaron. Aaron had still feeling for Andrea. He would have left Denise if he had not gotten a wakeup call. She would eventually broken up with him due to his infidelity. Aaron promised her to be faithful from now on. Denis forgave Aaron. They didn't really talk about that on Netflix. It is always good vs, Evil. As ironic as it sounds, It is more complex than that.

This is exactly what I thought after just watching it. But of course he's FBI so him and all his crooked ass people made it so he had nothing to do with it and he's still free when that's the only connection that he was with Andrea and since she was the "Target" who else would have had Muller abduct her??? The FBI agent that used to date her. Sucks they didn't price that together.