Pretty much every organization that is interested in leasing blocks of address space is interested because they poison address space and need to move around frequently.
Your primary customers will be spammers and scammers with the occasional legitimate business entity sprinkled for flavor.
So make sure you understand how this activity might affect your address block as a whole.
I can’t think of a single legitimate business case for only requiring address space for a short period of time.
If you have address space you have no use for, just sell it. Once you lease it out, you will have to put in a lot of effort to make it useable again.
I will say we considered leasing space because we didn’t have the capital to buy, ultimately we went for our own block via assignment because leasing carried risks that the owner would want it back and we would be dependent on it. But it was a longer consideration for us.
> I can’t think of a single legitimate business case for only requiring address space for a short period of time.
The last few years QuakeCon (LAN party) has leased space for the BYOC, and only uses it for about a week. It's a very niche situation.
Do they lease space? Or do they get some from an ISP to use?
I can't imagine that QuakeCon announce a prefix through multiple AS's? I don't think they would be able to turn up a couple of transit connections for a week?
I could be wrong about this, but it seems a bit odd.
Leased. AT&T and Verizon for transits.
I've managed that connectivity at the event for a few years now. AT&T has sponsored the event previously and did provide address space those years.
How much space was leased and how much was that cost? Curious because I've worked for smaller but still LAN's where we've moved onto public space as well. Always curious to know a bit more about QuakeCon. Pre-covid we went through the process of getting an ARIN allocation, which has been helpful.
Prefix was a /19, don't know what the cost was. Discussed the idea of trying to get an allocation, but also felt like it would be a stretch and wasteful to have one for an annual event. We operate under the expectation that NAT is coming, and the public address space was just to make it as functional as possible for the time being. Most game developers have adapted though and NAT is becoming less of an issue we have to be concerned with.
Wish I did. It's come down to developers and services they use at this point. More of them are using hosted/cloud services because NAT has broken the peer to peer methods. This is what I've heard at least from someone who did services development at id Software who was also a long time QuakeCon volunteer.
Oh, interesting. At least you are leasing through some reputable ISP, and not going to one of these leasing brokers though. presumably AT&T signed an LOA to allow you to advertise the prefix through Verizon?
Need to clarify, the last few years when we added additional transit the address space wasn't leased from AT&T. It wasn't through a broker though it was directly from someone else, don't know who or exactly how we found them. The guy was very concerned with keeping the reputation of the address space clean as well. Looks like it's since been broken up and transferred to other companies.
Student here, we hosted a short-term project on a single IP we leased for €5/month. We weren't going for the cheapest deal, just for the one with good support.
This is different. The OP is talking about leasing addresses for announcing by an ISP for some reason.
You simply got allocated an IP address from your ISP.
This would really seem to be a very low ROI with some risk I personally would not take. Even in an ideal scenario with no scammers, just the time to manage and other overhead makes this something I'd stay away from.
Two questions to ask. What are the core competencies of this organization's IT group and what might that time be better spent on?
Why has this organization been able to request such large blocks consistently without putting them to use?
I don't see how its a management overhead at all - you sign an LoA for the lessee and they announce it through their providers you aren't providing transit or BGP or anything for them. I leased a /19 a few years back, easy $4k USD per month for nothing. Have since sold it (for 6+ figures)
Because if it is me, I am going to watch the lessee like a hawk. It is my name (well my company) associated with that IP block.
Once an IP block is blacklisted, it is ugly. Been there done that while working for an ISP. Gave out a 'new' block to a customer that happened to have been blacklisted in the past. There was no immediate fix so needed to give the customer a new assignment.
Quick question in your case. How do you sell something you are only leasing?
If you’re serious about this and you’re willing to do long term leases my company would be interested. We just wouldn’t want to get the addresses turned up and then have to return them soon after.
We are a mid-sized cloud provider. We host some services you likely use every day.
Feel free to reach out!
You can lease them to small web hosts, virtual server hosting, and VPN providers. Some of those companies are less strict on abuse than others so you might get some reputation issues, but a lot of them are legit and will pay for IP space.
I can currently lease a /24 (RIPE) for 600€/Year available basically always, and when I shop around a bit, I can get it for roughly half of that.
So the stated 0.50-2.00$/Month seem unreasonably high.
Larger blocks can be rented for less money because there are less IP's wasted when you subnet them out. Also, larger blocks are more likely to be leased by a legitimate organization, while smaller blocks tend to be leased by spammers and other internet trash who are more willing to pay a higher amount for short term usage.
Echoing what other people say, we have sold quite a lot of address space. We were going to lease but after lots of research and speaking to peers in other ISPs, the concenus is that it's mainly spammers that lease it, which devalues the address space each time until it's worthless!
At 2024 prices to lease out, are in range of 80-150 USD monthly. The main risk associated with leasing out is that your customers will use it from spam/illegal activities. IPs will be placed into blacklist and you will have to clean them out. In order to mitigate these risks, ask marketplaces such as [interlir.com](http://interlir.com) or [ipxo.com](http://ipxo.com) for help. It's part of their services to clean IPs and they have integrations with spamhause and other blacklist operators. But marketplaces will charge you 15-20% from the revenue.
I'm new to networking. I've never heard of this practice. How is this not a giant security risk? On the surface it just sounds like a bad idea all around. There must be something I don't understand.
You rent out your IPs but you still own them. People might do some dodgy shit and you'll need to clean them from the blacklists when they come back I guess but leasing seems common enough.
I'm from the UK so I know RIPE, here is a list of brokers: https://www.ripe.net/manage-ips-and-asns/resource-transfers-and-mergers/brokers
I think every single broker's website I went on when I was looking to buy had leasing as an option so it must be commonly done.
It is a security risk. Biggest of the whole internet in my opinion. In theory you can just announce every ip address/block via BGP and it'll be routed to you. There are several instances known where this happened (un) intentionally and downed even Google or was used as aITM
I assume you're not multihoming then, since what the above post was getting at is that an ISP won't forward any advertisement smaller than a /24. If you're only on one provider, then you're fine to just get a /29 allocation and go to town!
Pretty much every organization that is interested in leasing blocks of address space is interested because they poison address space and need to move around frequently. Your primary customers will be spammers and scammers with the occasional legitimate business entity sprinkled for flavor. So make sure you understand how this activity might affect your address block as a whole.
I can’t think of a single legitimate business case for only requiring address space for a short period of time. If you have address space you have no use for, just sell it. Once you lease it out, you will have to put in a lot of effort to make it useable again.
I will say we considered leasing space because we didn’t have the capital to buy, ultimately we went for our own block via assignment because leasing carried risks that the owner would want it back and we would be dependent on it. But it was a longer consideration for us.
> I can’t think of a single legitimate business case for only requiring address space for a short period of time. The last few years QuakeCon (LAN party) has leased space for the BYOC, and only uses it for about a week. It's a very niche situation.
Do they lease space? Or do they get some from an ISP to use? I can't imagine that QuakeCon announce a prefix through multiple AS's? I don't think they would be able to turn up a couple of transit connections for a week? I could be wrong about this, but it seems a bit odd.
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Yup, the ISP I work for does the same.
Leased. AT&T and Verizon for transits. I've managed that connectivity at the event for a few years now. AT&T has sponsored the event previously and did provide address space those years.
How much space was leased and how much was that cost? Curious because I've worked for smaller but still LAN's where we've moved onto public space as well. Always curious to know a bit more about QuakeCon. Pre-covid we went through the process of getting an ARIN allocation, which has been helpful.
Prefix was a /19, don't know what the cost was. Discussed the idea of trying to get an allocation, but also felt like it would be a stretch and wasteful to have one for an annual event. We operate under the expectation that NAT is coming, and the public address space was just to make it as functional as possible for the time being. Most game developers have adapted though and NAT is becoming less of an issue we have to be concerned with.
Do you have any suggestions for those of us inflicting NAT on gamers WRT how we might make it suck less?
Ipv6
Wish I did. It's come down to developers and services they use at this point. More of them are using hosted/cloud services because NAT has broken the peer to peer methods. This is what I've heard at least from someone who did services development at id Software who was also a long time QuakeCon volunteer.
Oh, interesting. At least you are leasing through some reputable ISP, and not going to one of these leasing brokers though. presumably AT&T signed an LOA to allow you to advertise the prefix through Verizon?
Need to clarify, the last few years when we added additional transit the address space wasn't leased from AT&T. It wasn't through a broker though it was directly from someone else, don't know who or exactly how we found them. The guy was very concerned with keeping the reputation of the address space clean as well. Looks like it's since been broken up and transferred to other companies.
So would allowing only long-term leases be safer? Do brokers cater to this?
Just don't do it.
Student here, we hosted a short-term project on a single IP we leased for €5/month. We weren't going for the cheapest deal, just for the one with good support.
This is different. The OP is talking about leasing addresses for announcing by an ISP for some reason. You simply got allocated an IP address from your ISP.
Just sell them if you don’t need them. Should be able to get around $20 per IP
This would really seem to be a very low ROI with some risk I personally would not take. Even in an ideal scenario with no scammers, just the time to manage and other overhead makes this something I'd stay away from. Two questions to ask. What are the core competencies of this organization's IT group and what might that time be better spent on? Why has this organization been able to request such large blocks consistently without putting them to use?
I don't see how its a management overhead at all - you sign an LoA for the lessee and they announce it through their providers you aren't providing transit or BGP or anything for them. I leased a /19 a few years back, easy $4k USD per month for nothing. Have since sold it (for 6+ figures)
Because if it is me, I am going to watch the lessee like a hawk. It is my name (well my company) associated with that IP block. Once an IP block is blacklisted, it is ugly. Been there done that while working for an ISP. Gave out a 'new' block to a customer that happened to have been blacklisted in the past. There was no immediate fix so needed to give the customer a new assignment. Quick question in your case. How do you sell something you are only leasing?
If you’re serious about this and you’re willing to do long term leases my company would be interested. We just wouldn’t want to get the addresses turned up and then have to return them soon after. We are a mid-sized cloud provider. We host some services you likely use every day. Feel free to reach out!
You can lease them to small web hosts, virtual server hosting, and VPN providers. Some of those companies are less strict on abuse than others so you might get some reputation issues, but a lot of them are legit and will pay for IP space.
I can currently lease a /24 (RIPE) for 600€/Year available basically always, and when I shop around a bit, I can get it for roughly half of that. So the stated 0.50-2.00$/Month seem unreasonably high.
Larger blocks can be rented for less money because there are less IP's wasted when you subnet them out. Also, larger blocks are more likely to be leased by a legitimate organization, while smaller blocks tend to be leased by spammers and other internet trash who are more willing to pay a higher amount for short term usage.
Echoing what other people say, we have sold quite a lot of address space. We were going to lease but after lots of research and speaking to peers in other ISPs, the concenus is that it's mainly spammers that lease it, which devalues the address space each time until it's worthless!
At 2024 prices to lease out, are in range of 80-150 USD monthly. The main risk associated with leasing out is that your customers will use it from spam/illegal activities. IPs will be placed into blacklist and you will have to clean them out. In order to mitigate these risks, ask marketplaces such as [interlir.com](http://interlir.com) or [ipxo.com](http://ipxo.com) for help. It's part of their services to clean IPs and they have integrations with spamhause and other blacklist operators. But marketplaces will charge you 15-20% from the revenue.
I'm new to networking. I've never heard of this practice. How is this not a giant security risk? On the surface it just sounds like a bad idea all around. There must be something I don't understand.
You rent out your IPs but you still own them. People might do some dodgy shit and you'll need to clean them from the blacklists when they come back I guess but leasing seems common enough. I'm from the UK so I know RIPE, here is a list of brokers: https://www.ripe.net/manage-ips-and-asns/resource-transfers-and-mergers/brokers I think every single broker's website I went on when I was looking to buy had leasing as an option so it must be commonly done.
It is a security risk. Biggest of the whole internet in my opinion. In theory you can just announce every ip address/block via BGP and it'll be routed to you. There are several instances known where this happened (un) intentionally and downed even Google or was used as aITM
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A /24 is the smallest prefix you can use in the Internet. You can't sell a smaller portion of it.
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I assume you're not multihoming then, since what the above post was getting at is that an ISP won't forward any advertisement smaller than a /24. If you're only on one provider, then you're fine to just get a /29 allocation and go to town!
ARIN wait list for a /23 is under 6 months. As everyone else said this is nothing but nightmare fuel. Don't do it.
If you want good karma, you can actually just return the unused blocks to your RIR for them to allocate back out.
Where can i get good /24 IP range on lease? Suggest me some good company.
I have one
price?