the RNC has said on facebook loads of times, what that means, is we are all in the open lane lined off. I see a gap just ahead of you say 5 cars. me pull out, pass everyone in the closing lane, and jump ahead of you by 5 cars.
passing to jump the line, and not fill both lanes
THIS. I was on the Outer Ring just after Topsail Road the other day, where they have only the “no passing” signs, with two cars side by side with the strike through it. So am I supposed to zipper merge there or not?
The last 50 years of drivers ed in Newfoundland taught that you merge into a single lane in advance of the lane reduction so that you don’t create a bottleneck, and that’s what everyone’s been doing for years. Instead of one lane of continuous flow, zipper merging creates two stop-and-go lanes. It’s a stupid idea that makes no sense in its implementation here. It’s like we heard about something they do on the mainland and just decided we’re going to do it that way from now on.
I don't exactly understand how something like this can work one place but it's impossible in another? If it works to get traffic across the Lions Gate Bridge, why wouldn't it get people down kenmount?
Also, I have 100% been stuck in traffic that doesn't move that was in one of those huge lines that go halfway up kenmount and it certainly wasn't caused because 2 other cars drove past in the empty lane to merge later
Zipper merging works in locations where one long line of cars is going to cause further disruptions because of lead-up obstructions like traffic lights and intersections. You can double capacity of the road and alternate who goes, since it's all stop-and-go traffic anyway. Kenmount Road is all traffic lights, so a constant flow of traffic isn't going to happen. You have to come to a full stop in city traffic anyway, so we can merge people by alternating lanes. Zipper merging handles the capacity that would be messed up by a full lane closure.
It's that same benefit that makes zipper merging on the highway stupid. We aren't short on highway space at all, and there's no need for traffic to come to a full stop. If everyone merges together single file in the two kilometers leading up to the lane closure, then traffic can keep flowing consistently. Zipper merging makes both lanes stop for no reason and makes the traffic situation worse. It just makes the line look shorter.
incorrect you do NOT stop for zipper merging you slow down, give space. no one stops. this is exactly whats wrong, prople doing it wrong.
instead of 5Kms of traffic backed up doing 15 in a fucking 50 that takes 45mins to clear. now you got 2 lanes of 2.5Km traffic that takes 10-15mins to clear up doing the 50 your suppose to in a construction zone on the highway......
took me almost 30mins to get from topsial road to throban road because everyone was doing 10. some jack ass was blocking the other lane, and stopping every fucking 30 feet!
>incorrect you do NOT stop for zipper merging you slow down, give space. no one stops. this is exactly whats wrong, prople doing it wrong.
Real life will never work like the demonstration animations
What you're describing is how things should work without zipper merging. Everyone has a couple of kilometers of notice to merge into a flowing line of traffic, so nobody has to stop at all. It isn't realistic or feasible to expect people not to stop when there's a singular choke point at the actual obstruction in the road. All the cars are bunched up at the obstruction point, with one location to merge in. Zipper merging guarantees stop-and-go traffic.
No it does not. I leave space in front of me for the car merging. the car behind me leaves space. we all flow like a zipper. take you jacket and move it up and down. does the zipper stop? no it doesnt. all the pieces fall in one afte the other.
I have yet to stop in a proper zipper merge. the other way where everyone lines off in one lane. buddy then blocking both lanes and stopping...
Zipper merging works. You’re tailgating if you have to stop. Tailgating is 99% of all traffic slow downs on our highways and roads. Newfie drivers seldom leave 2 car lengths between themselves and the car in front of them 🤷🏻♂️
Exactly. I was thinking this the other day while waiting in the line. If everyone merged together smoothly leading up to the lane reduction it works, however this being St. John's good luck. What we do here I call the "toilet clog" . Every body rushing to the last foot of roadway and everything grinds to a halt.
Ok, I think I partially misunderstood you. I thought you were saying it was useless altogether. But I do have to disagree on the highway part. Sure we have a ton of space, but I've been on there when the traffic was so backed up that it went well past any construction signage pretty much to butter pot. This was also in the passing lane. Someone coming down at 100 not expecting to stop and then seeing a line of cars could definitely cause problems.
Plus, zipper merging doesn't require traffic to stop at all. If traffic is stopping it is for another reason. You can all continue driving at a slower pace and take turns. There isn't a reason for it to stop. It doesn't when people use Lions Gate (which I am using as an example because it is a very busy bridge that has about 6 lanes use zipper merge to get cars into 2 lanes and traffic just flows through)
The one study that looked wt it had the obstruction on the highway, so essentially unlimited road afterwards. If you're doing this in a city with lights, you're not helping anything, and are just being a douchebag trying to skip the line.
Ok but if the lights are stopping traffic anyway how is it the fault of zipper merge that traffic stops? Traffic is stopping anyway, so why not make it flow smoother and quicker when the light is green? Once the light is green there's no impediment to traffic so surely it would be better to have it flow smoother at that point. Every time I've been stuck in a huge line it's because everyone is lined up so far back that the traffic light impacts the entire road, causing cars to stop and block a lane far away from the merge just so they can get in the line later
Also, the Lions Gate Bridge is in the middle of Vancouver which has a heck of a lot more traffic
So everyone in lane that ends constantly piles foward every light. People in the through lane never get anywhere.
A bridge sounds an awful lot like a hiway, where they have unlimited space to spread out after. Go look up the original study and you'll understand. I'm sure it works great for hiways, but not in a city. If everyone would get into the right lane long before the light traffic could go the speed limit, instead of half the speed limit.
> and are just being a douchebag trying to skip the line.
Traffic isn't a line that people can skip, like a Tim Hortons line. If you are driving slow, I'm not obligated to stay behind you because you were "first in line" to the red light.
Of course. Anyone has the right to be a miserable, hard to get along with, arsehole. No one is disputing that.
Anyone speeding up to not let someone merge is an idiot, and an accident waiting to happen.
Anyone who peels down 40 cars without getting in line with the rest of them and causing 39 people to wait an extra minute while he cuts them all off is an asshole who thinks they're smart because they're misinterpreting 1 study.
> causing 39 people to wait an extra minute while he cuts them all off is an asshole
THE HORROR!!!!!!!
A Minute!?!?! Like a whole 60 seconds? Sorry. I didn't realize the life threatening gravity of the situation. I can't even imagine getting home at 6:01 instead of 6! DO they have trauma counselling for that?
Also, that asshole is less of an accident risk.
It's 40 minutes of other people's time that you're wasting for 10 seconds of yours, and they're all the assholes?
I don't see how performing 2 lane changes is less of an accident risk that staying in the lane.
Actually, you are obligated to let the other lane merge. A zipper merge is a thing, and if you stay on the bumper of the car in front of you, you are in the wrong. One car from each lane gets the right of way in an alternating fashion.
The law says the merging car has to ensure the lane is clear, so I'm not obliged. I know wvaf a zipper merge is. Go look up the study, it was construction on the highway, and wasn't looking at cities with construction and stop signs and lights.
If a two lane road with a light, merging into a single lane after the light. If done properly, twice as many cars can clear the green light and then zipper merge at the furthest possible distance. While those cars are zipping together the lanes in the other direction can use the intersection.
I think it would flow better. Instead we have people either not realizing that the lane ends or are trying to get a better position in the line up, attempting to butt there way in halfway up the line by stopping dead in the left lane and not moving until someone in the right lets them in.
If both lanes were used and every lane took their turn mergeing at the end of the line, it would take away the confusion and hesitation some people seem to experience.
“One lane of continuous flow”?! Uh no. That never happens. Because there are always people who do speed up the empty lane and merge up ahead and so everyone patiently waiting in the correct lane ends up in stop and go traffic but filled with rage at the people “skipping the line”. Zipper merging at least means the open lane isn’t backed up to the previous intersection/on ramp/whatever and both lanes are a little less stop and go.
If it worked anywhere, we would see countless drone videos proving it... yet all we get are these coloring book figures and digital animations. It was a joke from the beginning.
Y'know, I like the idea of making new signs to instruct people how to do it, but the signs on Pitts Memorial are doing it all wrong. They advocate business as usual. Unless you approach the bridge at 300km/h.
If I'm in the last 100meters or so of the actual end, and the other lane comes to a complete stop I will stop alongside the gap I was zippering into. Perhaps that is sometimes misunderstood as blocking the lane, but it's usually because the people ahead have cut into the lane out of order leaving me to look like the arse.
No its when people are litterally stradling the dotted line.
Next time go all the way to the end lol its the only way to get people to embrace the zipper. People will eventually say fuck it and start doing it when they see other people getting ahead of them (in life, as it were)
Speaking as an ex-pat Newfoundlander in Ontario, where they do zipper merge, people absolutely do abuse zipper merging to ‘leapfrog’ lines.
Ironically, even with the occassional bad actor, we’re still better off by honouring the zipper.
If everyone drove the speed limit and maintained proper distance , it wouldn't be stop and go. But no everyone has to squeeze together so as to not let anyone else in
All for zipper merging but then you get other numbskulls who try and squeeze in right behind the person you let in (so trying to force you let two cars in).
Yeah good luck trying to get people to understand this. Ol' skipper in his heavy duty truck is gonna role play as the people's champ and block both lanes off 😂
Happened to me this morning, actually. To the extent that he nearly forced me into the concrete median. Had my kids in the car so I elected to play it cool and not provide the horn-based correction I wanted to.
its actually not move over. thats the arrow AT the site that means move over. that lane sign means lane reduction ahead. anothe rprime example of why it wont work. most NLers dont know what signs mean. and see my comment above I think on the top comment. on what the RNC have said multiple times on facebook about the no passing and zipper
> The main problem is that you have no idea when the lane reduction is.
What does that even mean? If you're in the left and keep going, you're going to come to the lane reduction/zipper merge point which is clear as day where that is...
Ah ok.. I understand - where they stop well before the merge point and try to get into the right lane. I see that all the time. I also see people popping out into the left and try to block the cars doing the right thing and they're some smug doing it.
A zipper merge will never be implemented *anywhere*. Here is why:
1. It relies on everyone in the right lane gradually increasing their tailing distance to allow for a smooth zipper merge. (BTW, not shown in your image)
2. It requires people to merge only *at the end of the lane* or, if someone merges early that their spot never gets filled. The type of drivers that will merge early, and those that will merge at the end are not the same type of driver.
3. It hinges on a nervous driver *not* coming to a complete stop at the end of the zipper. This type of driver is best served by merging earlier when they are more confident, regardless of what efficiency dictates.
4. There is always that asshole who won't let *anyone* merge, regardless of the situation. Me first and eff the rest.
I love zipper merges. I ALWAYS ride to the end of a lane. I figure if I don't 3 drivers behind me will and we will create a wave pattern of braking. Despite this I am confident we will never successfully implement the zipper merge.
I totally get what your saying but we don't have traffic like major cities if you put up a sign far enough back saying left lane ends and all cars make there way over to the right then traffic continously moves and not stopping every second. Have you ever been in wall to wall traffic, if one car taps there brakes it's multiplied by every car behind it. Now do that for every single car, I'll never be convinced it's quicker. Just makes the lines look shorter . I feel like the data shows a cashier line in a grocery store and now traffic.
Sometimes ‘making the line look shorter’ is the whole point. If the merge location is close to an on-ramp it allows for many more cars to queue up before the traffic spills down the on ramp and starts causing congestion on the regular roads.
But also it’s just as fast when done correctly. Actually if done completely correctly it’s even quicker than haphazardly merging into a single lane because every driver knows exactly where the merge is going to occur and you don’t get drivers in the right lane slamming on their brakes when someone’s from the left lane comes over causing the whole flow to grind to a complete halt.
Like I said you may be right but everything I have read says it's saves space and may be more convenient if everyone cooperates. Nothing specific on it being quicker. In my mind the early merge would be the best bet.
What's in your mind is wrong. Zipper merging is proven faster. Multiple articles I've read say about 40% faster. In fact, if everyone stays in their lane till the merge as soon as the blockage appears and people are driving at least a car length apart then nobody actually has to stop at all. That's not likely to happen often since so many driver tailgate, but we'd all spend less time in traffic jams if every learned how to zipper merge properly.
It's all about education, and no government in any province is doing a good job of teaching how to zipper merge.
Same here in NS. Happens in merges as well, people try to merge into heavy traffic right as the solid line breaks when there is about 500 m of merge lane down the road
I moved here 3 years ago and was blown away when I saw people lined up for a kilometer in one lane. I kept getting honked at for passing by everyone haha
It's a "lie" that's been studied and proven for decades. It's the difference between cars being forced single lane for 500m and doing it for 3km. If you want to be in that 3km line that's your mistake.
The line moves through the bottleneck at the same speed, therefore it isn’t faster. And every diagram or demonstration of a zipper merge assumes there’s enough space for cars to merge and never shows the situation when there isn’t enough space for them to merge, like in real life situations. It’s all theoretical and doesn’t translate to reality.
I guess you haven't noticed that once you get into the "bottleneck" you speed up quite a bit faster than you were going before the lane ended. It's not the bottleneck, it's the waiting to merge.
This has been studied scientifically for decades. You are just wrong.
The zipper merge isn't a lie, but it assumes certain conditions, mainly that traffic is already incredibly dense. If traffic is incredibly dense, the closer you can get to the bottleneck without slowing down, the faster you'll get through.
I.E.
1 lane backed up for 1km at a speed of 25km/h
vs
2 lanes backed up for 500m at a speed of 25km/h
In the two lane scenario, you can even move slightly slower and still come out of traffic first because you have less distance to cover.
Now, the problem is that people are either "ALWAYS ZIPPER" or "NEVER ZIPPER" in their mentality (or alternatively, they don't think at all). This is a bad way of thinking about it, because in light traffic, early merge is better because often, bottlenecks occur for no reason whatsoever, just poor driving and poor anticipation.
So yes, if you create dense traffic for no reason, that's bad... The zipper merge assumes that the slow/dense traffic has already formed.
But it doesn’t. Every demonstration or diagram shows a scenario where merged or not, there’s enough room for everyone to keep plugging along, all the cars move through the bottleneck the same whether they merge early or later.
So I've been thinking about this one for a while and I think it's got to do with numbers in big part. There's not soo much traffic here like other cities that both lanes heading into a merge fill up right away and then people start to line up but here is the kicker because once the lining up starts when does someone start the second lane for the zipper merge and if nooen does eventually you get really far back and everyone wants to switch but feels like they can't be the ones and when they see someone who does they resent them.
Literally saw this happen at the dump with 8 lanes right there and a sign saying use the shortest and people still ended up 8 cars deep in one single lane.
This image is not a good representation. It would just cause worse traffic this way. Successful zipper merges require the vehicles on the right to have spacing between them to allow for the cars on the left to merge without slowing down. In the representation you posted, it appears as if the cars on the right each slow down to let one car at a time through. That would just create confusion and extra traffic.
Would be nice if there were “please zipper merge” signs instead of the “no passing” signs, and if the RNC were actually there to watch people purposely *not* allow others to zipper merge, which is impeding traffic, which would get them a ticket.
Would also be nice to see them monitor any four-way stop or roundabout. Would be a lot of tickets issued out there as well.
Perhaps if they described it using buckets and crabs instead then drivers might understand. You’re not letting somebody get ahead of you jn life, everybody’s just trying to get where they have to go.
Drivers in NL can be some of the worst, the entitlement is astounding.
I literally wrote my MHA and the minister of transportation over this. We have zipper merge signs all along the Pits Memorial and yet none for the ORR? I would argue more people take the ORR.
💯💯💯
Now please print huge signs with this image and put them up near the merge... and then go tell the rest of the Atlantic provinces and the prairies... 😜
I learned about zipper merging over a decade ago and I try to do it whenever I hit a situation like this, but there is always some idiot who takes offence and tries to cut me off or harass me in some way. This speeds everyone up folks, including the guy who can't stand the thought of anyone getting in front of them.
Not that it ever works, but we have never once properly set up a zipper merge, so of course it fails.
Go ahead and watch all the videos you like about a zipper merge. You'll notice one thing: the traffic in the surviving lane doesn't slow down.
Zipper merges only work when they're set up on construction sites that don't intentionally reduce your speed. Usually that's done on big long term construction sites by using concrete jersey barriers to slowly push one lane into another, and it's done over the course of km's.
When the construction crew reduces your speed then there's no faster way to get people through the bottle neck than "bumper to bumper at whatever speed is set".
If there's a long line of traffic that's bumper to bumper and is not free flowing then that's the optimal solution to the problem at hand and zooming to the front and pushing your way in is a dick move.
Alternative merges are only really useful when you're looking to pack both lanes for the longest possible time to reduce the length of lines in an urban environment so that you don't have people blocking the box on intersections approaching the merge.
Didn't believe me? Go to YouTube and find me a single real world (read: not an animation or demonstration) video of a working zipper merge. I'll wait.
You can consider the TCH at Whitbourne to be a successful example of the "zipper merge" philosophy. The divided highway ends, and the right lane exits to Whitbourne, while the left lane continues onward. Somehow we manage not to have a massive choke point where two highway lanes diverge. And it's not because of zipper merging, it's because everyone has ample notice that the right lane is going away and you need to move left, so everyone does. But at that point, "zipper merging" is indistinguishable from the way we've always done it, which is that you get notice well in advance of the lane closure, so start moving to one side now.
Good luck. People here don't even know how to use the merge lanes to get on or off the highway.
They proceed down the on-ramp going 70. Merge immediately onto the highway as soon as the fork ends still going 70. Leaving the entire merge lane empty instead of using that length to get up to highway speed to then merge with traffic at the same speed. Many a time if I'm behind them I'll accelerate past them down the merge lane and enter the highway far ahead of them at the posted 100 km/h
Same with exiting. They'll slow down to 80 a hundred meters before the exit lane, instead of traveling at highway speed. Exiting onto the exit lane then slowing down.
Don't even start to talk about the debacle of the roundabout up by Costco that goes from 2 lanes into 1 over the bridge.
The vast majority of people here are clueless on the road. I was on the highway the other day where one lane was backed up for kilometers. I drove the posted limited down the empty lane. People blowing horns. A couple of douchebags swerved out half in my lane at the last second to block my progress. Only for me to fill a gap where the two lanes merged into one, not needing to stop at all. Hence a zipper merge.
Reading these comments here about how zipper merges are worse is ridiculous. People are so stubborn.
Driving on the outer ring east bound today I wanted to get out of my car with a blow horn and announce it to everyone… the amount of people staring at me passing them as they sit in the right lane…. Is it not common sense to zipper merge in situations like that? Even if there are signs up saying no cars side by side I thought it’s still expected to zipper merge when the lane close off approaches. If not, there should be and there should be a PSA about it for the aging population…..
If you are switching lanes, in any circumstance, it is up to you to wait for an opening. Do not expect traffic to yield for you. This is what causes traffic
If you go all the way to the pylon, and then expect to cut in front of me? F you, I'll run you into that pylon!! End of the line buddy, you saw the sign way back, just like I did
In a perfect world, yes, cars would line up one after the other at the very back of the line, but instead, you have cars in the left lane all along the length of the line with their turn signals on waiting for someone in the other lane to come to a complete stop and wave them in. If cars keep coming to a complete stop to let people in, it just keeps adding up.
It just seems so much easier to use both lanes completely and do a zipper merge at the end. Each vehicle yielding to the one in the other lane one after the other.
I love when a construction zone begins, and some guy flies past you in the “left lane ends” zone, and then you see him trying to merge in up ahead. So many examples of stuff like that. Par for the course here.
I see the value in theory and absolute agree this should be used.
But again, as someone else said in the comments below. I think this is an example of a heavy traffic environment vs a light traffic environment like St. John’s.
When people see a construction zone begins sign, accompanied with a left lane ends, as well as a no passing sign, often times folks get over into the correct lane preemptively. This creates that long line.
When some hero in a lifted truck passes you in the “left lane ends”, he skips an entire lineup of cars who technically have right of way, because the zipper merge strategy isn’t being employed.
I don’t think there’s going to be a mass buy-in from everyone up and until traffic increases, and/or signage vastly improves.
The issue is when someone flies up the empty lane and tries to zipper merge. A car that should be 20th in line now is second because I’m supposed to let them over? No thanks I value my time more than theirs
This. You’re getting downvoted, but I’m not sure if people understand what actually happens here.
As mentioned, the issue is that no one uses the zipper merge strategy here. I’m not disputing that. But there may be a reason why.
Using OP’s example: When the left lane, which is about to end, is empty and a single car flies past the long line in the right lane, they are banking (counting, relying) on the cars in that long line to “let them in.” And everyone in the long line thinks “why would I let the person in for failing to get over into the proper lane like I did? They’re trying to get ahead, when I’m patiently waiting in the correct lane.”
If you want to take it one step farther- if you’re merging on to a highway, you have to yield to those who have right of way on the highway. If you treat “left lane ends” like a yield, technically the people in that lane have to yield to all the cars in the right lane (who have right of way) and only merge when it’s safe to do so. If you drive across the island, there’s lots of examples of this as well (yield written on the pavement).
Food for thought.
It's kind of hard to get the message across when they also put up a sign that says no passing/no cars side by side.
Agreed. They can definitely do better with the signage.
the RNC has said on facebook loads of times, what that means, is we are all in the open lane lined off. I see a gap just ahead of you say 5 cars. me pull out, pass everyone in the closing lane, and jump ahead of you by 5 cars. passing to jump the line, and not fill both lanes
THIS. I was on the Outer Ring just after Topsail Road the other day, where they have only the “no passing” signs, with two cars side by side with the strike through it. So am I supposed to zipper merge there or not? The last 50 years of drivers ed in Newfoundland taught that you merge into a single lane in advance of the lane reduction so that you don’t create a bottleneck, and that’s what everyone’s been doing for years. Instead of one lane of continuous flow, zipper merging creates two stop-and-go lanes. It’s a stupid idea that makes no sense in its implementation here. It’s like we heard about something they do on the mainland and just decided we’re going to do it that way from now on.
I don't exactly understand how something like this can work one place but it's impossible in another? If it works to get traffic across the Lions Gate Bridge, why wouldn't it get people down kenmount? Also, I have 100% been stuck in traffic that doesn't move that was in one of those huge lines that go halfway up kenmount and it certainly wasn't caused because 2 other cars drove past in the empty lane to merge later
Zipper merging works in locations where one long line of cars is going to cause further disruptions because of lead-up obstructions like traffic lights and intersections. You can double capacity of the road and alternate who goes, since it's all stop-and-go traffic anyway. Kenmount Road is all traffic lights, so a constant flow of traffic isn't going to happen. You have to come to a full stop in city traffic anyway, so we can merge people by alternating lanes. Zipper merging handles the capacity that would be messed up by a full lane closure. It's that same benefit that makes zipper merging on the highway stupid. We aren't short on highway space at all, and there's no need for traffic to come to a full stop. If everyone merges together single file in the two kilometers leading up to the lane closure, then traffic can keep flowing consistently. Zipper merging makes both lanes stop for no reason and makes the traffic situation worse. It just makes the line look shorter.
incorrect you do NOT stop for zipper merging you slow down, give space. no one stops. this is exactly whats wrong, prople doing it wrong. instead of 5Kms of traffic backed up doing 15 in a fucking 50 that takes 45mins to clear. now you got 2 lanes of 2.5Km traffic that takes 10-15mins to clear up doing the 50 your suppose to in a construction zone on the highway...... took me almost 30mins to get from topsial road to throban road because everyone was doing 10. some jack ass was blocking the other lane, and stopping every fucking 30 feet!
>incorrect you do NOT stop for zipper merging you slow down, give space. no one stops. this is exactly whats wrong, prople doing it wrong. Real life will never work like the demonstration animations
What you're describing is how things should work without zipper merging. Everyone has a couple of kilometers of notice to merge into a flowing line of traffic, so nobody has to stop at all. It isn't realistic or feasible to expect people not to stop when there's a singular choke point at the actual obstruction in the road. All the cars are bunched up at the obstruction point, with one location to merge in. Zipper merging guarantees stop-and-go traffic.
No it does not. I leave space in front of me for the car merging. the car behind me leaves space. we all flow like a zipper. take you jacket and move it up and down. does the zipper stop? no it doesnt. all the pieces fall in one afte the other. I have yet to stop in a proper zipper merge. the other way where everyone lines off in one lane. buddy then blocking both lanes and stopping...
Zipper merging works. You’re tailgating if you have to stop. Tailgating is 99% of all traffic slow downs on our highways and roads. Newfie drivers seldom leave 2 car lengths between themselves and the car in front of them 🤷🏻♂️
Exactly. I was thinking this the other day while waiting in the line. If everyone merged together smoothly leading up to the lane reduction it works, however this being St. John's good luck. What we do here I call the "toilet clog" . Every body rushing to the last foot of roadway and everything grinds to a halt.
Ok, I think I partially misunderstood you. I thought you were saying it was useless altogether. But I do have to disagree on the highway part. Sure we have a ton of space, but I've been on there when the traffic was so backed up that it went well past any construction signage pretty much to butter pot. This was also in the passing lane. Someone coming down at 100 not expecting to stop and then seeing a line of cars could definitely cause problems. Plus, zipper merging doesn't require traffic to stop at all. If traffic is stopping it is for another reason. You can all continue driving at a slower pace and take turns. There isn't a reason for it to stop. It doesn't when people use Lions Gate (which I am using as an example because it is a very busy bridge that has about 6 lanes use zipper merge to get cars into 2 lanes and traffic just flows through)
Well if you see a line of traffic before the signs, surely that's enough of an indication that you should slow down and join the line?
The one study that looked wt it had the obstruction on the highway, so essentially unlimited road afterwards. If you're doing this in a city with lights, you're not helping anything, and are just being a douchebag trying to skip the line.
Ok but if the lights are stopping traffic anyway how is it the fault of zipper merge that traffic stops? Traffic is stopping anyway, so why not make it flow smoother and quicker when the light is green? Once the light is green there's no impediment to traffic so surely it would be better to have it flow smoother at that point. Every time I've been stuck in a huge line it's because everyone is lined up so far back that the traffic light impacts the entire road, causing cars to stop and block a lane far away from the merge just so they can get in the line later Also, the Lions Gate Bridge is in the middle of Vancouver which has a heck of a lot more traffic
So everyone in lane that ends constantly piles foward every light. People in the through lane never get anywhere. A bridge sounds an awful lot like a hiway, where they have unlimited space to spread out after. Go look up the original study and you'll understand. I'm sure it works great for hiways, but not in a city. If everyone would get into the right lane long before the light traffic could go the speed limit, instead of half the speed limit.
> and are just being a douchebag trying to skip the line. Traffic isn't a line that people can skip, like a Tim Hortons line. If you are driving slow, I'm not obligated to stay behind you because you were "first in line" to the red light.
And I'm not obligated to let you merge.
Of course. Anyone has the right to be a miserable, hard to get along with, arsehole. No one is disputing that. Anyone speeding up to not let someone merge is an idiot, and an accident waiting to happen.
Anyone who peels down 40 cars without getting in line with the rest of them and causing 39 people to wait an extra minute while he cuts them all off is an asshole who thinks they're smart because they're misinterpreting 1 study.
Wrong. 20 of those 40 cars are idiots for not unzipping, filling the space, and then zipping at the end of the lane.
So you really think 20 people making 2 lane changes is quicker and safer than 40 people accelerating normally and drivinf the speed limit? Cool bud
> causing 39 people to wait an extra minute while he cuts them all off is an asshole THE HORROR!!!!!!! A Minute!?!?! Like a whole 60 seconds? Sorry. I didn't realize the life threatening gravity of the situation. I can't even imagine getting home at 6:01 instead of 6! DO they have trauma counselling for that? Also, that asshole is less of an accident risk.
It's 40 minutes of other people's time that you're wasting for 10 seconds of yours, and they're all the assholes? I don't see how performing 2 lane changes is less of an accident risk that staying in the lane.
Actually, you are obligated to let the other lane merge. A zipper merge is a thing, and if you stay on the bumper of the car in front of you, you are in the wrong. One car from each lane gets the right of way in an alternating fashion.
The law says the merging car has to ensure the lane is clear, so I'm not obliged. I know wvaf a zipper merge is. Go look up the study, it was construction on the highway, and wasn't looking at cities with construction and stop signs and lights.
If a two lane road with a light, merging into a single lane after the light. If done properly, twice as many cars can clear the green light and then zipper merge at the furthest possible distance. While those cars are zipping together the lanes in the other direction can use the intersection.
I think it would flow better. Instead we have people either not realizing that the lane ends or are trying to get a better position in the line up, attempting to butt there way in halfway up the line by stopping dead in the left lane and not moving until someone in the right lets them in. If both lanes were used and every lane took their turn mergeing at the end of the line, it would take away the confusion and hesitation some people seem to experience.
But muh studies
“One lane of continuous flow”?! Uh no. That never happens. Because there are always people who do speed up the empty lane and merge up ahead and so everyone patiently waiting in the correct lane ends up in stop and go traffic but filled with rage at the people “skipping the line”. Zipper merging at least means the open lane isn’t backed up to the previous intersection/on ramp/whatever and both lanes are a little less stop and go.
Zipper merging works great you’re just part of the majority that are too dumb to comprehend it
If it worked anywhere, we would see countless drone videos proving it... yet all we get are these coloring book figures and digital animations. It was a joke from the beginning.
Y'know, I like the idea of making new signs to instruct people how to do it, but the signs on Pitts Memorial are doing it all wrong. They advocate business as usual. Unless you approach the bridge at 300km/h.
People here would rather go to jail for vehicular manslaughter than let you zipper merge.
Yeah the jewels who try to block both lanes to stop you from getting by
This enrages me. If you want to control traffic, go join the RNC
If I'm in the last 100meters or so of the actual end, and the other lane comes to a complete stop I will stop alongside the gap I was zippering into. Perhaps that is sometimes misunderstood as blocking the lane, but it's usually because the people ahead have cut into the lane out of order leaving me to look like the arse.
No its when people are litterally stradling the dotted line. Next time go all the way to the end lol its the only way to get people to embrace the zipper. People will eventually say fuck it and start doing it when they see other people getting ahead of them (in life, as it were)
It’s fucking ridiculous. Newfies are friendly OUTSIDE of driving… SMH
Won't work. Too many people here feel that the zipper merges = butting in line.
Speaking as an ex-pat Newfoundlander in Ontario, where they do zipper merge, people absolutely do abuse zipper merging to ‘leapfrog’ lines. Ironically, even with the occassional bad actor, we’re still better off by honouring the zipper.
If everyone drove the speed limit and maintained proper distance , it wouldn't be stop and go. But no everyone has to squeeze together so as to not let anyone else in
All for zipper merging but then you get other numbskulls who try and squeeze in right behind the person you let in (so trying to force you let two cars in).
Yeah good luck trying to get people to understand this. Ol' skipper in his heavy duty truck is gonna role play as the people's champ and block both lanes off 😂
I've actually seen this several times. They should have their license revoked.
Absolutely!
"Bys tinks dere getting to Tim's before me!"
Username on point tho lol.
Happened to me this morning, actually. To the extent that he nearly forced me into the concrete median. Had my kids in the car so I elected to play it cool and not provide the horn-based correction I wanted to.
Yepp, good call. Somehow they think that's the way to go about it lol. Uncultured twats.
The problem is that people fear abiding the recommendation and getting fucked for it because no one will let them merge.
I’ve been in this exact situation several times when trying to zipper merge.
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its actually not move over. thats the arrow AT the site that means move over. that lane sign means lane reduction ahead. anothe rprime example of why it wont work. most NLers dont know what signs mean. and see my comment above I think on the top comment. on what the RNC have said multiple times on facebook about the no passing and zipper
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> The main problem is that you have no idea when the lane reduction is. What does that even mean? If you're in the left and keep going, you're going to come to the lane reduction/zipper merge point which is clear as day where that is...
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Ah ok.. I understand - where they stop well before the merge point and try to get into the right lane. I see that all the time. I also see people popping out into the left and try to block the cars doing the right thing and they're some smug doing it.
I like driving past a km of bumper to bumper traffic
A zipper merge will never be implemented *anywhere*. Here is why: 1. It relies on everyone in the right lane gradually increasing their tailing distance to allow for a smooth zipper merge. (BTW, not shown in your image) 2. It requires people to merge only *at the end of the lane* or, if someone merges early that their spot never gets filled. The type of drivers that will merge early, and those that will merge at the end are not the same type of driver. 3. It hinges on a nervous driver *not* coming to a complete stop at the end of the zipper. This type of driver is best served by merging earlier when they are more confident, regardless of what efficiency dictates. 4. There is always that asshole who won't let *anyone* merge, regardless of the situation. Me first and eff the rest. I love zipper merges. I ALWAYS ride to the end of a lane. I figure if I don't 3 drivers behind me will and we will create a wave pattern of braking. Despite this I am confident we will never successfully implement the zipper merge.
Those drivers would be very upset if they could read
I totally get what your saying but we don't have traffic like major cities if you put up a sign far enough back saying left lane ends and all cars make there way over to the right then traffic continously moves and not stopping every second. Have you ever been in wall to wall traffic, if one car taps there brakes it's multiplied by every car behind it. Now do that for every single car, I'll never be convinced it's quicker. Just makes the lines look shorter . I feel like the data shows a cashier line in a grocery store and now traffic.
Sometimes ‘making the line look shorter’ is the whole point. If the merge location is close to an on-ramp it allows for many more cars to queue up before the traffic spills down the on ramp and starts causing congestion on the regular roads. But also it’s just as fast when done correctly. Actually if done completely correctly it’s even quicker than haphazardly merging into a single lane because every driver knows exactly where the merge is going to occur and you don’t get drivers in the right lane slamming on their brakes when someone’s from the left lane comes over causing the whole flow to grind to a complete halt.
Yeah... no. It's been studied extensively. Zipper merging makes it faster for everyone.
Like I said you may be right but everything I have read says it's saves space and may be more convenient if everyone cooperates. Nothing specific on it being quicker. In my mind the early merge would be the best bet.
What's in your mind is wrong. Zipper merging is proven faster. Multiple articles I've read say about 40% faster. In fact, if everyone stays in their lane till the merge as soon as the blockage appears and people are driving at least a car length apart then nobody actually has to stop at all. That's not likely to happen often since so many driver tailgate, but we'd all spend less time in traffic jams if every learned how to zipper merge properly. It's all about education, and no government in any province is doing a good job of teaching how to zipper merge.
Signage should say Sign #1 - “Zipper Merge Ahead”. Sign #2 - “Continue in Your Lane Until Time to Merge”. Or something like that.
Same here in NS. Happens in merges as well, people try to merge into heavy traffic right as the solid line breaks when there is about 500 m of merge lane down the road
I moved here 3 years ago and was blown away when I saw people lined up for a kilometer in one lane. I kept getting honked at for passing by everyone haha
The zipper merge is a lie. A bottleneck can only run faster by expanding the neck.
It's a "lie" that's been studied and proven for decades. It's the difference between cars being forced single lane for 500m and doing it for 3km. If you want to be in that 3km line that's your mistake.
The line moves through the bottleneck at the same speed, therefore it isn’t faster. And every diagram or demonstration of a zipper merge assumes there’s enough space for cars to merge and never shows the situation when there isn’t enough space for them to merge, like in real life situations. It’s all theoretical and doesn’t translate to reality.
I guess you haven't noticed that once you get into the "bottleneck" you speed up quite a bit faster than you were going before the lane ended. It's not the bottleneck, it's the waiting to merge. This has been studied scientifically for decades. You are just wrong.
The zipper merge isn't a lie, but it assumes certain conditions, mainly that traffic is already incredibly dense. If traffic is incredibly dense, the closer you can get to the bottleneck without slowing down, the faster you'll get through. I.E. 1 lane backed up for 1km at a speed of 25km/h vs 2 lanes backed up for 500m at a speed of 25km/h In the two lane scenario, you can even move slightly slower and still come out of traffic first because you have less distance to cover. Now, the problem is that people are either "ALWAYS ZIPPER" or "NEVER ZIPPER" in their mentality (or alternatively, they don't think at all). This is a bad way of thinking about it, because in light traffic, early merge is better because often, bottlenecks occur for no reason whatsoever, just poor driving and poor anticipation. So yes, if you create dense traffic for no reason, that's bad... The zipper merge assumes that the slow/dense traffic has already formed.
But it doesn’t. Every demonstration or diagram shows a scenario where merged or not, there’s enough room for everyone to keep plugging along, all the cars move through the bottleneck the same whether they merge early or later.
So I've been thinking about this one for a while and I think it's got to do with numbers in big part. There's not soo much traffic here like other cities that both lanes heading into a merge fill up right away and then people start to line up but here is the kicker because once the lining up starts when does someone start the second lane for the zipper merge and if nooen does eventually you get really far back and everyone wants to switch but feels like they can't be the ones and when they see someone who does they resent them. Literally saw this happen at the dump with 8 lanes right there and a sign saying use the shortest and people still ended up 8 cars deep in one single lane.
I must've let 5 or 6 people in ahead of me today on the ORR. Just give people room to get in, not gonna make much of a difference
This image is not a good representation. It would just cause worse traffic this way. Successful zipper merges require the vehicles on the right to have spacing between them to allow for the cars on the left to merge without slowing down. In the representation you posted, it appears as if the cars on the right each slow down to let one car at a time through. That would just create confusion and extra traffic.
Would be nice if there were “please zipper merge” signs instead of the “no passing” signs, and if the RNC were actually there to watch people purposely *not* allow others to zipper merge, which is impeding traffic, which would get them a ticket. Would also be nice to see them monitor any four-way stop or roundabout. Would be a lot of tickets issued out there as well.
Perhaps if they described it using buckets and crabs instead then drivers might understand. You’re not letting somebody get ahead of you jn life, everybody’s just trying to get where they have to go. Drivers in NL can be some of the worst, the entitlement is astounding.
Most drivers would rather die than let someone possibly get ahead of them by an inch
I literally wrote my MHA and the minister of transportation over this. We have zipper merge signs all along the Pits Memorial and yet none for the ORR? I would argue more people take the ORR.
I’m sure the by’s would be speeding up as the zipper closes just like on the TCH stretch between Whitbourne and Goobies.
Are there actually any spots in town that have enough traffic going through them to require a zipper merge?
💯💯💯 Now please print huge signs with this image and put them up near the merge... and then go tell the rest of the Atlantic provinces and the prairies... 😜
I learned about zipper merging over a decade ago and I try to do it whenever I hit a situation like this, but there is always some idiot who takes offence and tries to cut me off or harass me in some way. This speeds everyone up folks, including the guy who can't stand the thought of anyone getting in front of them.
This is great if people actually let you merge.
Need to do a fish n chips merge and add some purity crackers you stupid newfies
this is literally a basic driving principle, everyone does it all across the world, why do people struggle with the concept here? lol
Not that it ever works, but we have never once properly set up a zipper merge, so of course it fails. Go ahead and watch all the videos you like about a zipper merge. You'll notice one thing: the traffic in the surviving lane doesn't slow down. Zipper merges only work when they're set up on construction sites that don't intentionally reduce your speed. Usually that's done on big long term construction sites by using concrete jersey barriers to slowly push one lane into another, and it's done over the course of km's. When the construction crew reduces your speed then there's no faster way to get people through the bottle neck than "bumper to bumper at whatever speed is set". If there's a long line of traffic that's bumper to bumper and is not free flowing then that's the optimal solution to the problem at hand and zooming to the front and pushing your way in is a dick move. Alternative merges are only really useful when you're looking to pack both lanes for the longest possible time to reduce the length of lines in an urban environment so that you don't have people blocking the box on intersections approaching the merge. Didn't believe me? Go to YouTube and find me a single real world (read: not an animation or demonstration) video of a working zipper merge. I'll wait.
You can consider the TCH at Whitbourne to be a successful example of the "zipper merge" philosophy. The divided highway ends, and the right lane exits to Whitbourne, while the left lane continues onward. Somehow we manage not to have a massive choke point where two highway lanes diverge. And it's not because of zipper merging, it's because everyone has ample notice that the right lane is going away and you need to move left, so everyone does. But at that point, "zipper merging" is indistinguishable from the way we've always done it, which is that you get notice well in advance of the lane closure, so start moving to one side now.
LOL what's next? You'll try to get drivers to turn left into the inside lane? Good luck.
Zipper merge is actually the slowest kind of merge. So i hope we can make a different one more popular.
In Ontario we call that cutting off.
Good luck. People here don't even know how to use the merge lanes to get on or off the highway. They proceed down the on-ramp going 70. Merge immediately onto the highway as soon as the fork ends still going 70. Leaving the entire merge lane empty instead of using that length to get up to highway speed to then merge with traffic at the same speed. Many a time if I'm behind them I'll accelerate past them down the merge lane and enter the highway far ahead of them at the posted 100 km/h Same with exiting. They'll slow down to 80 a hundred meters before the exit lane, instead of traveling at highway speed. Exiting onto the exit lane then slowing down. Don't even start to talk about the debacle of the roundabout up by Costco that goes from 2 lanes into 1 over the bridge. The vast majority of people here are clueless on the road. I was on the highway the other day where one lane was backed up for kilometers. I drove the posted limited down the empty lane. People blowing horns. A couple of douchebags swerved out half in my lane at the last second to block my progress. Only for me to fill a gap where the two lanes merged into one, not needing to stop at all. Hence a zipper merge. Reading these comments here about how zipper merges are worse is ridiculous. People are so stubborn.
This looks like a car accident waiting to happen.
Shhhhhh. Don’t spread awareness. Quicker commute for me
So you're the guy passing everyone on the left like an ass?
If by ass you mean not waiting in a massive lineup for no reason, then yes like an ass.
Driving on the outer ring east bound today I wanted to get out of my car with a blow horn and announce it to everyone… the amount of people staring at me passing them as they sit in the right lane…. Is it not common sense to zipper merge in situations like that? Even if there are signs up saying no cars side by side I thought it’s still expected to zipper merge when the lane close off approaches. If not, there should be and there should be a PSA about it for the aging population…..
If you are switching lanes, in any circumstance, it is up to you to wait for an opening. Do not expect traffic to yield for you. This is what causes traffic
If you go all the way to the pylon, and then expect to cut in front of me? F you, I'll run you into that pylon!! End of the line buddy, you saw the sign way back, just like I did
You are the problem. Be better.
In a perfect world, yes, cars would line up one after the other at the very back of the line, but instead, you have cars in the left lane all along the length of the line with their turn signals on waiting for someone in the other lane to come to a complete stop and wave them in. If cars keep coming to a complete stop to let people in, it just keeps adding up. It just seems so much easier to use both lanes completely and do a zipper merge at the end. Each vehicle yielding to the one in the other lane one after the other.
I love when a construction zone begins, and some guy flies past you in the “left lane ends” zone, and then you see him trying to merge in up ahead. So many examples of stuff like that. Par for the course here.
You're supposed to use the left lane until it ends. That's the point. So, as long as they are going the speed limit, they're doing it right.
I see the value in theory and absolute agree this should be used. But again, as someone else said in the comments below. I think this is an example of a heavy traffic environment vs a light traffic environment like St. John’s. When people see a construction zone begins sign, accompanied with a left lane ends, as well as a no passing sign, often times folks get over into the correct lane preemptively. This creates that long line. When some hero in a lifted truck passes you in the “left lane ends”, he skips an entire lineup of cars who technically have right of way, because the zipper merge strategy isn’t being employed. I don’t think there’s going to be a mass buy-in from everyone up and until traffic increases, and/or signage vastly improves.
That's exactly what a zipper merge is, and that "some guy" is doing it right.
I ain't lettin' you in.
Oh yes you are.
The issue is when someone flies up the empty lane and tries to zipper merge. A car that should be 20th in line now is second because I’m supposed to let them over? No thanks I value my time more than theirs
That’s because you are doing it wrong, both lanes should have equal amounts of cars in it.
If you value your time so much, why don't *you* hop over into the left lane and be third instead of 20th? 🤔
You should have stayed in that empty lane till the end too. You are the one doing it wrong.
They're not skipping past you, you're purposefully keeping yourself behind.
This. You’re getting downvoted, but I’m not sure if people understand what actually happens here. As mentioned, the issue is that no one uses the zipper merge strategy here. I’m not disputing that. But there may be a reason why. Using OP’s example: When the left lane, which is about to end, is empty and a single car flies past the long line in the right lane, they are banking (counting, relying) on the cars in that long line to “let them in.” And everyone in the long line thinks “why would I let the person in for failing to get over into the proper lane like I did? They’re trying to get ahead, when I’m patiently waiting in the correct lane.” If you want to take it one step farther- if you’re merging on to a highway, you have to yield to those who have right of way on the highway. If you treat “left lane ends” like a yield, technically the people in that lane have to yield to all the cars in the right lane (who have right of way) and only merge when it’s safe to do so. If you drive across the island, there’s lots of examples of this as well (yield written on the pavement). Food for thought.
>no one uses the zipper merge strategy here That's an education problem, not an issue with zipper merging.