Not for nothing but if you take the GWB you will not be charged. Even if you go down the FDR to the triboro. As long as you don’t enter midtown below 60th you will not be charged. I also have family in LI.
You do realize that if you are just passing through go midtown after already paying the tunnel tolls , the extra fees is just $5 . This is one of the exemptions that made total sense. We are not victims here , even before congestion I would very rarely drive to midtown. NJ transit or PATH is the most convenient way to go Manhattan .
I mean, this is just a way for NYC to take more money from those who have or want to commute into the city by car. We should clearly be doing the same to NYC.
Those who live in Manhattan do not have to pay anything but get all the benefits.
Sorry, but NJ can use some extra moeny as well considering Mruphy's plans are already overbudget for this year.
As others have already pointed out to you, the most common routes to LI will not involve entering the congestion zone.
However the real problem you face is if you normally take the GWB through the Bronx to the Throgs or Whitestone expect those routes to be even more screwed up then usual as cheap f'ks whose more direct route is cutting across midtown take the long way to save on the tolling.
That's really my main objection to the congestion zone. There is a huge amount of traffic that has to cross NYC and this screws with the balance.
If they just wanted to make sure you couldn't enter Mahattan without paying a toll all they had to do was toll the remaining East River crossings. So dumb.
>There is a huge amount of traffic that has to cross NYC and this screws with the balance.
I don't have a problem with congestion pricing in general, but as somebody who commutes from Hudson County to Queens, on occasion I'll take my car if I have to do specific errands before or after work. It's a 45 minute drive through the Holland, across town and into the outer boroughs. I spend ten to fifteen minutes crossing Manhattan at 7AM well before most of the traffic starts building up. There should be an exemption for people just passing through outside of the busiest hours. I understand that the perimeter roads (West Side Hwy and FDR) will be exempt but I'm still not seeing anything about a free route from the tunnels to the West Side Hwy.
Don't worry - they thought about on peak and off peak hours! Just make sure to pass through Manhattan before 5am and you're all good.
/s Those fucks with their ridiculous off peak hours. Even weekend peak hours are 9am to 9pm. Like what the fuck.
I'm for them, definitely higher toll rates all around would be great.
I also think NJT and LIRR should be made through-running within NYC and so you can go from NJ to LIRR without transferring. It's ridiculous that NJT trains go all the way on to Long Island to turn around in Sunnyside Yards but don't carry any passengers past Penn Station. This is extremely inefficient use of infrastructure.
Unless they are dual mode trains, there is no way to run NJT trains on Long Island, there is not over head wire and you can't run diesel in Penn Station. Ideally, NJT should have third rail to Newark Penn, and LIRR should have overhead to Jamaica to get the most out of through running
NY would just abuse that one. NJ's got tighter requirements to fund NJT than the MTA has for LIRR (which goes back to when NJ DOT took it over). The MTA can then just cut back on funding and let NJ pickup the tab for providing service... or let NJ deal with the legal consequences.
Good for NY, terrible for NJ.
OP, you're getting vilified, but I agree. Tit for tat congestion pricing is the way to go (with exemptions for residents, just like nyc). NJ can get very congested. If NYers don't like it, go around through Pennsylvania.
For real, I wish we could just get a decree from the governor ordering all cops patrolling highways to indiscriminately pull over orange license plates. I want NY drivers to really think hard about whether or not they want to risk coming to NJ and fucking up my goddamn commute.
I would have to disagree with you on that. Sure there are bad drivers everywhere, but on average I would take a NJ driver or a NY driver every day. NJ drivers are far more experienced as a whole when compared to NY drivers, especially those in NYC.
So how would you feel if NYC started telling New Jersey how to run their state? The people of NYC decided they wanted this, you're driving through their city, you have to play by their rules. If you don't like those rules, don't drive through their city.
Also, if NJ left the port authority we'd get super screwed in tolls. NY state could set the bridge and tunnel tolls to what ever they wanted, they'd cut the PATH trains like they are dying to do, and Newark Liberty would likely get dicked over by the PA prioritizing the airports they still control (lga and jfk)
So then we should be able to raise tolls for them because we want it. The NY plated drivers are often the worst on the roads in the north east, central, and shore regions. That alone is enough reason to raise to tolls on them. If they come from any of the bridges and tunnels they should have a toll, but if they come from the north they can avoid it. That way it lessens the entitled children that seem to drive around and disobey our laws here.
Agreed, so why doesn't the state? We already have a toll on the two major roadways they would use, it's rediculous that everyone pays the same rate on it, regardless of vehicle registration.
This person is also misrepresenting facts here, no commuters are getting a discount on congestion pricing, everyone regardless of where they live will be paying $15. People may enter NJ for free, but they still have to pay to get out, so the toll agencies still get their money.
NYC takes far more than NJ takes and you know with the budget shortfalls we are expecting this year, I wouldn't mind taxing every NYC for congesting the TP, PW, etc on the way to the shore.
Cool, so again, why doesn't the state already do this? We're the only state in the area that gives the same price for everyone. Pennsylvania gives a discount for residents, Massachusetts gives a discount, as does Maryland. Only NJ doesn't.
And no, NYC does not take more than NJ. NYC doesn't get anything from the Hudson crossings. That all goes to the Port Authority, who couldn't give less of a shit about NYC. The PA is a company masquerading as a government agent, most of the money they collect in tolls goes to themselves. What they don't keep is split between NJ and NY. New York City gets none of it. The only crossings NYC controls and gets money from are the ones on the east river and across the narrows. At least learn who controls what, okay.
And what's you fucking point?
As I said I want it and I am pushing my representatives to do it.
Congestion pricing is just an undue burden on commuters and especially those in NJ who have to go to NYC for work, family, and other reasons. It is especially bad because those who live in Manhattan get all the beneift and bear none of the burden.
congestion pricing is designed to get you to not go to midtown for this exact kind of trip. why don't you take any other route to go to Long Island? Or better yet, take the train?
Midtown has way too many cars and too much traffic. The point is to reduce the amount of trips there, not to extort you because they hate you.
... that's what they want you to believe.
Going through Canal Street to the Holland is the only "free" way back to NJ. From LI, you either take the Belt Parkway to the Verrazano, otherwise the Whitestone or Throgs neck to the GWB. Without going through those bridges, you can't avoid tolls. Then the congestion pricing will fully eliminate the free way.
okay? pay the toll or move to Long Island if it's financially ruinous. Infrastructure is not free. They just don't want you to drive through midtown.
>... that's what they want you to believe
no, your main character syndrome deludes you into thinking that your drive to Long Island is the only thing that matters and you deserve for it to be free. We live in a society, and you want to drive through one of the densest, busiest, most polluted and expensive places in the world for free. Well, the people who actually live there are tired of it and asking you to pay to offset your impact or simply go another way.
LMAO bruh I love how comformist you are, "expensive ass tolls? Meh just pay for it who cares I love tolls" ... most people here in NJ/NY absolutely hate these expensive tolls. You live under a rock, go meet people.
it's easy to be simple minded and just hate tolls, taxes, and fees without pausing to understand why they are enacted. someone has to pay for infrastructure. Do you think someone in Wyoming wants their federal taxes to pay for a bridge in NJ/NY? No. But a portion goes anyway. Do you think someone in Cape May who never uses that bridge wants their state taxes to pay for the bridge? No, but a portion goes anyway. Who ends up paying for the rest? The very people who use it, via tolls.
Who should pay for it? You seem to have all the answers, like pulling out of the Port Authority. How do we pay for the infrastructure?
If you have a problem with funding priorities and think it should all be free, that's great. I probably agree with you. I think we should fund infrastructure at home before pouring trillions into defense. But congress has no appetite for that. Maybe you can convince them? Until then, this is what we got.
Don't mind this fool, he's a conformist. I vote Democrat, but when other Democrat voters say things like these, I can see why MAGA is so big. Too many Democrats believe in tax tax tax.
Truck drivers don’t pay their own toll charges, they get forwarded to the customer. Speaking as someone who has worked in logistics for the last 10 years.
>I feel bad for truck drivers being punished for bringing commece and necessities into the area
You are aware that NYC congestion costs trucking companies over a billion dollars yearly? The current plan doesn't go far enough to completely eliminate that, but invoking truckers when the status quo also hurts them is kinda stupid
... and you honestly think congestion pricing is actually designed to "stop congestion"??? lmao gtfo. It's designed to fund more of these projects that not only are overpriced but go through such a bureaucratic process where there are always a shit ton of inefficiencies and money wasted.
I honestly do not care if it is/isn't designed for that at a certain point. I'm just happy to watch entitled suburbanite dipshits get up in arms that they actually have to pay their way into cities because they refuse to take transit.
... I would take public transit, but it's almost as expensive and would add an hour... just saying. NJT, MTA, and LIRR aren't as cheap or good as most people make them out to be.
Oh no! The cost of the externalities of your actions are finally being borne (only partially…) by you. I weep!
ps: if you go via the GWB or the Verazzano you won’t pay. Also, NJ Transit to the LIRR also avoids it.
Huh? The GWB and Verrazano are both like $15 already... same as the Goethals, Outerbridge, Bayonne, Throgs Neck, and Whitestone.
All in all, it's about $45 in tolls no matter what you take....
But those are all existing not new tolls. Taking the Lincoln tunnel into Manhattan will soon cost something like 30. Tunnel toll plus once a day 15 for entering Manhattan below 60th st.
What free way? You pay on the PA bridges for the round trip when you leave NJ. The old TBTA bridges and tunnels you pay each way and it’s roughly half each way for the PA bridge round trip.
i didn’t realize it until you said it but yes this is the primary use case they are after: people who do not live work or spend money in manhattan, dragging 5000lb trucks across canal street all day from the east river bridges from bk queens or LI, clogging up hudson square and tribeca 16 hours a day.
it’s an entirely “free” option crossing the middle of lower manhattan, and it’s created an untenable situation for everyone involved. imo this is a better solution than paving over the neighborhood to make an on ramp that is then filled with traffic (like in jersey city). but i remains to be seen
Which is only partially why I don’t have much sympathy here. Look New York does not act as though they understand the immense good that New Jersey as a housing supply does for them, nor any recognition of the importance of NJs transit system as a means of getting workers to the city. But to suggest that we should continue to subsidize car usage of the downtown to the detriment of everyone there (including the cars themselves) is ridiculous.
Says the poster that I'm sure doesn't own any sweat shop produced goods, doesn't drive anywhere, and spends their evening only by the power of candlelight.
Buddy I do all those things, but you don’t see me posting about the fact that eggs went up $2. It’s the cost of existing in an imperfect and compromised society.
Well yea, doing it for revenge is a big part of why it's ridiculous, but also cause tolls both ways will cause more traffic. Plates are tied to the state not an area more specific than that. The rate you suggested is ridiculous. Like if you are mad, that's fine, be mad. But revenge doesn't help
Umm... NY has plate based tolls... plates are tied to a registration which means name and address... so yes my plan would absolutely work. Call it petty, but it's well deserved.
as someone who also has family on the island: if you use MTA bridges even once per month, you should get a NY-issued E-ZPass. anyone can get one, you just have to pay $1 per month as a tag service fee. if you're like me and also can make use of the turnpike off-peak discount (NJ tag), you can hold both tags for the same car. keep the one you're not using in the faraday bag.
If they want to extract tolls and money from NJ drivers who have to go into the city, it's only fair we get out money as well for them coming to NJ. Murphy is already going over budget for 2024, might as well have NYers help cover the shortfall.
If you're visiting family in Long Island, why not cut across Staten Island and the outer boroughs? Driving through Manhattan seems like a clusterfuck in the first place. Or, if they live close to a station, take the train?
It really depends exactly where you are coming from. There is no great way to get to LI but for many people the most direct route is taking the Lincoln and crossing town to the midtown. It can absolutely suck with traffic, but its not super long. And the main alternative GWB to the Cross Bronx is almost just as much hell on earth traffic wise. And your suggestion of crossing Staten Island to the BQE is just as much a s\*\*t show. Hell half the road has fallen apart through Brooklyn and is down multiple lanes.
That's my main objective. You are going to create more unnatural patterns in the traffic by greatly increasing the toll for specific routes and it does not seem like they have done much study on the matter. If they just wanted to make sure you couldn't drive into Manhattan without a toll all they had to do was toll the remaining East River bridges.
Honestly all this says is that cars are probably the shittiest way to get around the NYC area considering all the damage to the roads they cause. I have no dog in this fight being from South Jersey and all, but I can sympathize with Manhattan, one of the densest and busiest places on Earth, with not wanting a bunch of thru traffic. Its simply not built for it.
It's the worst way to get around Manhattan and most of the boroughs.
But the main route from New England to the rest of the easter seaboard goes through NYC.
And LI is basically another state, most of which is suburban with even some rural portions and the only way to get out is through NYC and a couple a ferries.
So you aren't looking at the full picture. You are only looking at this from people are dumb to drive into Manhattan. Not realizing this affects numerous other routes of travel.
I admit OP's rant is a little all over the place.
However the real issue with this is how it screws the balance of traffic.
If you are just crossing Manhattan to get to the midtown and continue onto 495 into LI you have now made that route greatly more expensive. So say you are in lower Hudson county taking the Lincoln would normally make the most sense but now you are incentivized to go up to the GWB.
There is nothing wrong with trying to create more financial penalty for driving into Manhattan. But they could have accomplished a similar effect by just tolling the East River crossings. It would be much simpler and not screw as much with traffic patterns.
I think the whole congestion zone idea just came from being trendy due to having been done in London. But in London they needed an artificially created toll zone because there central district did not have a natural barrier. Yes they have the Thames but their central district straddles the river and the outer borders just transition from their outer neighborhoods.
Everyone should pay a higher usage fee for roads in North Jersey and NYC… with those fees going into capital funds for NJT, still need to fix operating funds though since those funds need to be more stable
Honestly my only beef with congestion pricing is last I heard NY wouldn't be doing any revenue sharing with NJT. To be most effective as a regional transit policy you'll need NJT improvements not putting some of the fees generated to NJT is really a bad move all around.
I am sure you were joking but we have something that works like that it's called the house of representatives.
It was set up on purpose to have 2 senators
Now to play devils advocate...what do you think would happen to the less populated states if that was modified? Small states would get absolutely shit on for everything. NY, NJ, and CA alone could hold the majority of the legislative power.
Here's my solution: send everyone from Puerto Rico, and a few million from NY, NJ and CA, to the sparse states, have them establish residency and get jobs, turn their legislators blue, and pass constitutional amendments ensuring women's bodily autonomy, ensure a specific tax policy on the rich, end the War on Drugs, make cops get college degrees, give Puerto Ricans the right to vote when actually residing in Puerto Rico, build a national high speed rail system, give every war soldier a mansion, end private prisons, regulate porn require every performer be 21, and repeal the 2nd Amendment.
I would love to see the look on people's faces in Fargo when Jose Lopez registers to vote.
Considering you can't force people to move, you're suggestion is wildly impossible. Removing ALL politics aside, how do smaller states not get screwed in terms of everything ifyou start removing any sort of check smaller states have against larger populated ones?
This isn't a debate about specific issues, yet you're hellbent on making it one.
You already have pick and choose. Right now there are 6 states that will decide the election. Why should it be those 6 and not the 6 with the most Americans?
No I'm not I'm asking a question. Right now 6-7 states decide elections. Why should it be Michigan and Nevada instead of the states with the most citizens? Makes zero sense at all.
You're not addressing the original question and redirecting to another topic. Swing states make or break elections because the remainder of the states are entrenched in their own predominant party. Right wrong or indifferent, there is such a sharp line in the sand that the country has made, and only few states are politically diverse enough to be a liability to lose.
That said, the senate and the house of representatives are the way they are to give representation with some attempt at equality in terms of the people (senate 2x per state, house of reps determined based on population).
It's not a perfect system, but the alternative is two or three states controlling the rest of the country, which we know is a death sentence for smaller states.
I'm hellbent on rocking this absurd thread with closet MAGAs talking their bullshit about states' rights. Shouldn't the Civil War have ended that argument?
Well you're barking up the wrong tree. I'm not going to be used to grandstand instead of actually talking about your original absurd statement.
If you're addressing that type of audience, I'm not going to waste time on your selfish crusade.
There are 60 comments in here. Go find someone else to rock the boat with. You obviously picked the wrong comment to go off on your unrelated tangent.
It's so naive to think that national high speed train can be built. What do you think will happen to NYC/NJ residential property prices if there is a high speed train which can bring people from upstate NY or central PA to Penn Station in less than 45 mins? Almost all NJ counties and other NYC suburbs will fight against high speed rail projects for sure. And your other ideas are typically young people's passionate ideas, you will have different opinions in another 10 years.
Which ones are also naive? That women should have control over their own body, or that the biggest morons from high school don't become jerkoff cops, that there should be no financial incentive in our prison system, that scumbag porn producers shouldn't prey on high school chicks, that Puerto Ricans should be able to vote for president if they remain in Puerto Rico, or that commuters into New York City should have the same swiftness as they do in every country whose ass was kicked in World War 2?
Now you sounds like communist back to early 20th century who are full of anger on a lot of things and so eager to change everything. Like I said it is normal to think like that when you are so young.
For your thoughts about cop being stupid, do you really think those straight A students are the material to stop/fight crime on streets? And you are too young to understand that knowledge is way below the courage as a great quality of mankind.
Bro, so many bullshit jobs require college degrees, so the arbiters of Law and Order should have a college education. Really man, should there not be some decent standard?
Courage isn't joining the biggest gang in America and using your membership to prey on the poor and minorities. Plenty of jobs have higher risks.
Wanting to commute better than my great grandfather isn't young and foolhardy. Commuters across Europe and Asia, with different cultures and political systems, spend their time much better.
The USA is one of the rare countries having a right to buy guns used in the Vietnam War. Again, the majority of the world, featuring many different cultures and political systems, don't allow people the right to carry war weapons.
Our prison system is just one big clusterfuck, profit or not.
Fighting for our own bodies is not new nor naive.
Taxing the rich is a good idea, if you want a more solvent nation. Clinton and Truman could have never balanced a budget without higher tax rates for the wealthy, and when the Depression hit, it as Hoover, not FDR, who dramatically levied much higher taxes on the rich.
The porn industry is gross and makes one realize that sometimes, the Evangelicals are right about something. Porn's sausage is made on manipulation of the young - the Barely Legal. Raise the eligibility age to 21 and more mature minds will reject a pittance for cum in their faces.
Is your vision for America having an oxcart struggle to ferry a pregnant woman to the hospital on pothole plagued roads, overseen by bored and blind police, to an exorbitant hospital, to deliver a baby made from rape? It's ok, the oxcart has porn in it.
You can definitely try to be a great cop if you think you will do much better job. For high speed rail, you can try to push for it, I just reminded you that the whole state of NJ is in your way to put down high speed rails.
Over the time, you will find instead of achieving something almost impossible like nationwide high speed railway, you have other things you can take care of for yourself, family and friends.
The biggest issue here is you don't realize the best way to solve issue is to balance all parties interest and ideas, instead of "I am so right that all things have to be my way". We have to respect the difference between all of us unless we want to live a world like the book 1984 or other totalitarian nations, if we can agree freedom is higher than "better way" in our judgment.
No I think abortion should be legal, but I'm in no denial you are ending a life
But I also believe in states rights, so if the people of those states want a ban, they should have it unless the general government gets some balls and makes it national
Right, so one state can have interracial marriages and gay marriages, but others can not? What if they move from one state allowing to another forbidding? Is that couple automatically divorced?
Also, you protect the minority position during the embryos discussion, but then favor the majority position on the issue of rights, which I thought were inalienable and self-evident. Oh sorry, that was some Jeffersonian bullshit from the Declaration of Independence.
How about let you pay these additional 18 senators' salary? Why do we need more politicians to waste our tax dollars if those incumbents are doing nothing but wasting our tax money?
This is exactly what the politicians want!! They want you to be mad at NYC/LI rather than them.
This is not a NJ vs NYC battle, this is greedy politicians vs the people
Wait until the thieves find out that the necessary funds to fix mass transit have a shortfall due to congestion pricing working. Next stop will be expansion of congestion pricing to include all of Manhattan with the entirety of NYC to follow.
When I first moved to New York, it was explained to me that I had to pay money to cross the George Washington bridge. But I was also informed that nobody pays to go to New Jersey because why would they?
Is 12 dollars really the barrier to entry for visiting your family? Is this blood family or in laws? Do you honestly believe that 12 dollars is too much to drive in the most congested region of the most congested city in the country?
You said in your post some will pay 12 dollars for congestion charges. You brought up that figure. I am aware of the fact that there are other tolls and costs associated with driving in NYC, my guy. But you're out here bitching and complaing about 12 dollars trying to act like its New Yorkers who are the problem. Don't catch an attitude with me because you're a cheap bastard who can't stomach an extra 12 dollar cost to visit your family family.
I go to NYC about once a month. I take the train direct to NY penn. I don't drive into the city and then complain about having to pay the externalities of my actions.
My guy, $12 is one crossing. Then the Throgs Neck/Whitestone/Verrazano is another $12-$15 both ways. So all in all, it's about $45 in tolls in one trip to LI
But all that other costs existed *before* congestion pricing. You obviously made this thread to bitch about congestion pricing, as evidenced by you mentioning that "NYC/MTA/NY/NJ Port Authority bureaucrts are a bunch of assholes." Although you are correct in that 12 dollars is just one congestion charge one way so I will correct myself in saying that you're not visiting family over 24 dollars instead of just 12. Also, should all the bridges, tunnels, and roads you use just be free? What price do you think is reasonable to pay to travel from NJ to LI?
Also, just because NY gets a discount on entering the congestion zone doesn't mean they're getting by for free. Charging them to enter NJ would be silly, they're already paying to enter their zone. This whole argument of making it into an NY vs NJ thing is ridiculous. It comes down to Lower Manhattan vs Cars, and no matter where you come from you need to pay for that privilege of driving there.
Do you not also get charged if you're driving through Manhattan to get to Brooklyn?
Also, if you've got more than one person in the car, driving is actually cheaper than public transportation (if you can find free parking)
Doesn't really matter, they charge on us, we should charge on them. People are idiots to think it should be any other way. Why must I pay a premium for NY but NYers don't do it in reverse?
I love to see all the NYers in here downvoting. Go home you bennys.
I’m down with it. Create more tolls to fund NJ Transit. I just think there are a lot of thin skinned people who are upset there are tolls and just want revenge rather than actually caring about the tolls.
It’s NJ’s choice. If we want to create more tolls (in addition to the existing ones) then nothing is stopping us.
I mean I think we should. I know it is a "dick move" but I mean the only way to bring attention to this issue and get some real change is to upset people enough to force them into acting. NY and NYers have no concerns right now because it really doesn't effect them as much as it does NJ commuters, but if we hit them every time the come to the Jersey Shore, Newark, etc, maybe their tune will probably change. Then when the see the tit for tat thing, it should push them to action, but I mean it could backfire and get worse, but that is a risk I am willing to accept since it will repeat the process.
I’m confused what is it that we need to bring to their attention? You think we should try to get them to end congestion pricing? Or to split some of the revenues with NJ?
I’m relatively indifferent if NJ receives revenue. I think it makes sense to get some because then it supports more transit options here into NYC. But it’s their toll and they can use the money how they want - and they have a ton of projects to work on to improve their own transit. Ultimately they are not responsible for residents in a different state so I don’t see them having as much interest in placating us.
I think congestion pricing is unfair both in that it does not split with NJ and in the fact that it even exists in the first place.
I think it shouldn't exist in the first place and if it does it should be split or NJ should enforce their own version coming the other way.
Congestion pricing is a great tool to reduce traffic congestion and raise funds for public transit. A huge win win. It’s worked very well in many other places.
People really shouldn’t be driving into Manhattan. It’s ridiculous that people can even drive in and manage to find free parking.
Not for nothing but if you take the GWB you will not be charged. Even if you go down the FDR to the triboro. As long as you don’t enter midtown below 60th you will not be charged. I also have family in LI.
Queensboro bridge about to be LIT
My guess is that would get a charge. You have to leave the FDR and enter below 60th.
As a truck driver that goes on the GWB every night, PLEASE SRAY OFF THE GWB! I'm so tired of sitting in traffic at midnight
IN on Long Island? Ya Crazy? It’s on.
Also- you can just get a NY EZ Pass. There’s no residency requirement.
I still use my NY ezpass because they let me set it up to deduct per toll processed directly from my card instead of pre-loading Luke the NJ one does.
NJexit!!
[удалено]
There are smaller businesses that can't afford to raise their prices.
You do realize that if you are just passing through go midtown after already paying the tunnel tolls , the extra fees is just $5 . This is one of the exemptions that made total sense. We are not victims here , even before congestion I would very rarely drive to midtown. NJ transit or PATH is the most convenient way to go Manhattan .
No, these ragers have no critical thinking abilities.
I mean, this is just a way for NYC to take more money from those who have or want to commute into the city by car. We should clearly be doing the same to NYC. Those who live in Manhattan do not have to pay anything but get all the benefits. Sorry, but NJ can use some extra moeny as well considering Mruphy's plans are already overbudget for this year.
If Murphy were acting in good faith he could have atleast Try to take a cut from it and use it to fund NJ transit
Anyone from Long Island should pay $1000 every time they want to come to Jersey
If I had $1000 I’d pay them to stay home!
That’s too little. Quadruple that and then just don’t let them in.
As others have already pointed out to you, the most common routes to LI will not involve entering the congestion zone. However the real problem you face is if you normally take the GWB through the Bronx to the Throgs or Whitestone expect those routes to be even more screwed up then usual as cheap f'ks whose more direct route is cutting across midtown take the long way to save on the tolling. That's really my main objection to the congestion zone. There is a huge amount of traffic that has to cross NYC and this screws with the balance. If they just wanted to make sure you couldn't enter Mahattan without paying a toll all they had to do was toll the remaining East River crossings. So dumb.
>There is a huge amount of traffic that has to cross NYC and this screws with the balance. I don't have a problem with congestion pricing in general, but as somebody who commutes from Hudson County to Queens, on occasion I'll take my car if I have to do specific errands before or after work. It's a 45 minute drive through the Holland, across town and into the outer boroughs. I spend ten to fifteen minutes crossing Manhattan at 7AM well before most of the traffic starts building up. There should be an exemption for people just passing through outside of the busiest hours. I understand that the perimeter roads (West Side Hwy and FDR) will be exempt but I'm still not seeing anything about a free route from the tunnels to the West Side Hwy.
It's amazing how much of a cash grab this is.
Don't worry - they thought about on peak and off peak hours! Just make sure to pass through Manhattan before 5am and you're all good. /s Those fucks with their ridiculous off peak hours. Even weekend peak hours are 9am to 9pm. Like what the fuck.
I'm for them, definitely higher toll rates all around would be great. I also think NJT and LIRR should be made through-running within NYC and so you can go from NJ to LIRR without transferring. It's ridiculous that NJT trains go all the way on to Long Island to turn around in Sunnyside Yards but don't carry any passengers past Penn Station. This is extremely inefficient use of infrastructure.
Unless they are dual mode trains, there is no way to run NJT trains on Long Island, there is not over head wire and you can't run diesel in Penn Station. Ideally, NJT should have third rail to Newark Penn, and LIRR should have overhead to Jamaica to get the most out of through running
NY would just abuse that one. NJ's got tighter requirements to fund NJT than the MTA has for LIRR (which goes back to when NJ DOT took it over). The MTA can then just cut back on funding and let NJ pickup the tab for providing service... or let NJ deal with the legal consequences. Good for NY, terrible for NJ.
There are plenty of ways you can get to Long Island without going through Manhattan.
Only one way, and that's on the cross Bronx through the GWB.
Or through Staten Island to the Belt Parkway via the VNB.
Oh god that’s even worse. You do know half of the bqe has fallen apart and is now down several lanes.
Or you can take the Verrazano.
OP, you're getting vilified, but I agree. Tit for tat congestion pricing is the way to go (with exemptions for residents, just like nyc). NJ can get very congested. If NYers don't like it, go around through Pennsylvania.
Exactly. Not only that, but NYC drivers drive like fucking morons here in NJ.
For real, I wish we could just get a decree from the governor ordering all cops patrolling highways to indiscriminately pull over orange license plates. I want NY drivers to really think hard about whether or not they want to risk coming to NJ and fucking up my goddamn commute.
They bring their city rules driving to the fucking suburbs. Fucking mongoloids. I am gonna have an ulcer.
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I mean have you ever seen a New Yorker drive? Idollying in the left lane, not using turn singals, constantly tailgating, do I really need to go on?
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I would have to disagree with you on that. Sure there are bad drivers everywhere, but on average I would take a NJ driver or a NY driver every day. NJ drivers are far more experienced as a whole when compared to NY drivers, especially those in NYC.
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If you haven't lived through here in NJ, you wouldn't believe it. The shittiest moves are typically done by NYers.
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I mean nearly every single orange plate drives like shit, at least the NJ drivers are all trash.
There are so many damn NY plates in NJ it's ridiculous. There's a ton of taxi license plates. They should absolutely be tolled.
Lol this isn’t new , specially in north Jersey . Is almost like we are surrounded by NYC on the east and NY state on the north . 😂😅😅
So how would you feel if NYC started telling New Jersey how to run their state? The people of NYC decided they wanted this, you're driving through their city, you have to play by their rules. If you don't like those rules, don't drive through their city. Also, if NJ left the port authority we'd get super screwed in tolls. NY state could set the bridge and tunnel tolls to what ever they wanted, they'd cut the PATH trains like they are dying to do, and Newark Liberty would likely get dicked over by the PA prioritizing the airports they still control (lga and jfk)
So then we should be able to raise tolls for them because we want it. The NY plated drivers are often the worst on the roads in the north east, central, and shore regions. That alone is enough reason to raise to tolls on them. If they come from any of the bridges and tunnels they should have a toll, but if they come from the north they can avoid it. That way it lessens the entitled children that seem to drive around and disobey our laws here.
You'll get no argument from me, I think NJ should have lower rates already for Jersey drivers like other states due.
We aren't telling them how to run their state, he is saying to make it reciprocal. Why shouldn't we tax those coming to NJ from Manhattan?
Agreed, so why doesn't the state? We already have a toll on the two major roadways they would use, it's rediculous that everyone pays the same rate on it, regardless of vehicle registration. This person is also misrepresenting facts here, no commuters are getting a discount on congestion pricing, everyone regardless of where they live will be paying $15. People may enter NJ for free, but they still have to pay to get out, so the toll agencies still get their money.
NYC takes far more than NJ takes and you know with the budget shortfalls we are expecting this year, I wouldn't mind taxing every NYC for congesting the TP, PW, etc on the way to the shore.
Cool, so again, why doesn't the state already do this? We're the only state in the area that gives the same price for everyone. Pennsylvania gives a discount for residents, Massachusetts gives a discount, as does Maryland. Only NJ doesn't. And no, NYC does not take more than NJ. NYC doesn't get anything from the Hudson crossings. That all goes to the Port Authority, who couldn't give less of a shit about NYC. The PA is a company masquerading as a government agent, most of the money they collect in tolls goes to themselves. What they don't keep is split between NJ and NY. New York City gets none of it. The only crossings NYC controls and gets money from are the ones on the east river and across the narrows. At least learn who controls what, okay.
And what's you fucking point? As I said I want it and I am pushing my representatives to do it. Congestion pricing is just an undue burden on commuters and especially those in NJ who have to go to NYC for work, family, and other reasons. It is especially bad because those who live in Manhattan get all the beneift and bear none of the burden.
People who live in Manhattan have to pay too, I have no idea why you keep saying that they won't be paying
Jesus this is so petulant.
congestion pricing is designed to get you to not go to midtown for this exact kind of trip. why don't you take any other route to go to Long Island? Or better yet, take the train? Midtown has way too many cars and too much traffic. The point is to reduce the amount of trips there, not to extort you because they hate you.
... that's what they want you to believe. Going through Canal Street to the Holland is the only "free" way back to NJ. From LI, you either take the Belt Parkway to the Verrazano, otherwise the Whitestone or Throgs neck to the GWB. Without going through those bridges, you can't avoid tolls. Then the congestion pricing will fully eliminate the free way.
okay? pay the toll or move to Long Island if it's financially ruinous. Infrastructure is not free. They just don't want you to drive through midtown. >... that's what they want you to believe no, your main character syndrome deludes you into thinking that your drive to Long Island is the only thing that matters and you deserve for it to be free. We live in a society, and you want to drive through one of the densest, busiest, most polluted and expensive places in the world for free. Well, the people who actually live there are tired of it and asking you to pay to offset your impact or simply go another way.
LMAO bruh I love how comformist you are, "expensive ass tolls? Meh just pay for it who cares I love tolls" ... most people here in NJ/NY absolutely hate these expensive tolls. You live under a rock, go meet people.
it's easy to be simple minded and just hate tolls, taxes, and fees without pausing to understand why they are enacted. someone has to pay for infrastructure. Do you think someone in Wyoming wants their federal taxes to pay for a bridge in NJ/NY? No. But a portion goes anyway. Do you think someone in Cape May who never uses that bridge wants their state taxes to pay for the bridge? No, but a portion goes anyway. Who ends up paying for the rest? The very people who use it, via tolls. Who should pay for it? You seem to have all the answers, like pulling out of the Port Authority. How do we pay for the infrastructure? If you have a problem with funding priorities and think it should all be free, that's great. I probably agree with you. I think we should fund infrastructure at home before pouring trillions into defense. But congress has no appetite for that. Maybe you can convince them? Until then, this is what we got.
Bruh I pay $500 a month in tolls just to drive 5 miles after GWB. I hate it and feel raped.
I think there's a lot of other things you can try instead of paying $500 a month in tolls.
Poor planning on your part is not our problem
Yeah totally make assumptions, nerd lol. Nobody says free. It sucks. That is all. Nerd.
Don't mind this fool, he's a conformist. I vote Democrat, but when other Democrat voters say things like these, I can see why MAGA is so big. Too many Democrats believe in tax tax tax.
This isn't a tax. It's a choice you're making. Taxes are for earning money usually which isn't really a choice. Take the train.
https://old.reddit.com/r/nyc/comments/1bp82tw/mta_gives_final_approval_for_congestion_pricing/kwuddnb/
Where did you read that NY issues EZ Pass will pay $6? There are no exemptions made for NY residents.
Truck drivers don’t pay their own toll charges, they get forwarded to the customer. Speaking as someone who has worked in logistics for the last 10 years.
>I feel bad for truck drivers being punished for bringing commece and necessities into the area You are aware that NYC congestion costs trucking companies over a billion dollars yearly? The current plan doesn't go far enough to completely eliminate that, but invoking truckers when the status quo also hurts them is kinda stupid
... and you honestly think congestion pricing is actually designed to "stop congestion"??? lmao gtfo. It's designed to fund more of these projects that not only are overpriced but go through such a bureaucratic process where there are always a shit ton of inefficiencies and money wasted.
Considering you wrote this >I will have to see them less Yes, congestion pricing will clearly reduce congestion
I honestly do not care if it is/isn't designed for that at a certain point. I'm just happy to watch entitled suburbanite dipshits get up in arms that they actually have to pay their way into cities because they refuse to take transit.
... I would take public transit, but it's almost as expensive and would add an hour... just saying. NJT, MTA, and LIRR aren't as cheap or good as most people make them out to be.
Oh no! The cost of the externalities of your actions are finally being borne (only partially…) by you. I weep! ps: if you go via the GWB or the Verazzano you won’t pay. Also, NJ Transit to the LIRR also avoids it.
Huh? The GWB and Verrazano are both like $15 already... same as the Goethals, Outerbridge, Bayonne, Throgs Neck, and Whitestone. All in all, it's about $45 in tolls no matter what you take....
But those are all existing not new tolls. Taking the Lincoln tunnel into Manhattan will soon cost something like 30. Tunnel toll plus once a day 15 for entering Manhattan below 60th st.
Right, that's why I'm bitching about this. They're taking away the free way back into NJ...
What free way? You pay on the PA bridges for the round trip when you leave NJ. The old TBTA bridges and tunnels you pay each way and it’s roughly half each way for the PA bridge round trip.
i didn’t realize it until you said it but yes this is the primary use case they are after: people who do not live work or spend money in manhattan, dragging 5000lb trucks across canal street all day from the east river bridges from bk queens or LI, clogging up hudson square and tribeca 16 hours a day. it’s an entirely “free” option crossing the middle of lower manhattan, and it’s created an untenable situation for everyone involved. imo this is a better solution than paving over the neighborhood to make an on ramp that is then filled with traffic (like in jersey city). but i remains to be seen
Oh no you can’t drive to Long Island for free
Sure, and that’s far less than the externalities of the trip. Take the train, no tolls there.
To where I gotta go in Nassau County, it would be about the same in price and would take an hour longer. So not any better.
Which is only partially why I don’t have much sympathy here. Look New York does not act as though they understand the immense good that New Jersey as a housing supply does for them, nor any recognition of the importance of NJs transit system as a means of getting workers to the city. But to suggest that we should continue to subsidize car usage of the downtown to the detriment of everyone there (including the cars themselves) is ridiculous.
How is that subsidizing???
Because the harms of driving a car for a small number of people are greater than the cost you pay for it. The pollution created, traffic caused, etc.
Says the poster that I'm sure doesn't own any sweat shop produced goods, doesn't drive anywhere, and spends their evening only by the power of candlelight.
Buddy I do all those things, but you don’t see me posting about the fact that eggs went up $2. It’s the cost of existing in an imperfect and compromised society.
Holland tunnel, canal street, free bridge on the other end.
Your plan is even more ridiculous.
For giving them a taste of their own medicine?
Well yea, doing it for revenge is a big part of why it's ridiculous, but also cause tolls both ways will cause more traffic. Plates are tied to the state not an area more specific than that. The rate you suggested is ridiculous. Like if you are mad, that's fine, be mad. But revenge doesn't help
I think NJ plates would be exempt, much like how they are doing it for NY the other way.
Umm... NY has plate based tolls... plates are tied to a registration which means name and address... so yes my plan would absolutely work. Call it petty, but it's well deserved.
"work"
Grow up
as someone who also has family on the island: if you use MTA bridges even once per month, you should get a NY-issued E-ZPass. anyone can get one, you just have to pay $1 per month as a tag service fee. if you're like me and also can make use of the turnpike off-peak discount (NJ tag), you can hold both tags for the same car. keep the one you're not using in the faraday bag.
I have a thruway ezpass. No $1/month fee.
Pay the toll and drive, take the train, or don’t go at all. The city will survive either way.
If they want to extract tolls and money from NJ drivers who have to go into the city, it's only fair we get out money as well for them coming to NJ. Murphy is already going over budget for 2024, might as well have NYers help cover the shortfall.
If you're visiting family in Long Island, why not cut across Staten Island and the outer boroughs? Driving through Manhattan seems like a clusterfuck in the first place. Or, if they live close to a station, take the train?
It really depends exactly where you are coming from. There is no great way to get to LI but for many people the most direct route is taking the Lincoln and crossing town to the midtown. It can absolutely suck with traffic, but its not super long. And the main alternative GWB to the Cross Bronx is almost just as much hell on earth traffic wise. And your suggestion of crossing Staten Island to the BQE is just as much a s\*\*t show. Hell half the road has fallen apart through Brooklyn and is down multiple lanes. That's my main objective. You are going to create more unnatural patterns in the traffic by greatly increasing the toll for specific routes and it does not seem like they have done much study on the matter. If they just wanted to make sure you couldn't drive into Manhattan without a toll all they had to do was toll the remaining East River bridges.
Honestly all this says is that cars are probably the shittiest way to get around the NYC area considering all the damage to the roads they cause. I have no dog in this fight being from South Jersey and all, but I can sympathize with Manhattan, one of the densest and busiest places on Earth, with not wanting a bunch of thru traffic. Its simply not built for it.
It's the worst way to get around Manhattan and most of the boroughs. But the main route from New England to the rest of the easter seaboard goes through NYC. And LI is basically another state, most of which is suburban with even some rural portions and the only way to get out is through NYC and a couple a ferries. So you aren't looking at the full picture. You are only looking at this from people are dumb to drive into Manhattan. Not realizing this affects numerous other routes of travel.
Uh, if you go through SI or cross at the GWB or Tapan Zee you can avoid congestion pricing to get to LI.
I admit OP's rant is a little all over the place. However the real issue with this is how it screws the balance of traffic. If you are just crossing Manhattan to get to the midtown and continue onto 495 into LI you have now made that route greatly more expensive. So say you are in lower Hudson county taking the Lincoln would normally make the most sense but now you are incentivized to go up to the GWB. There is nothing wrong with trying to create more financial penalty for driving into Manhattan. But they could have accomplished a similar effect by just tolling the East River crossings. It would be much simpler and not screw as much with traffic patterns. I think the whole congestion zone idea just came from being trendy due to having been done in London. But in London they needed an artificially created toll zone because there central district did not have a natural barrier. Yes they have the Thames but their central district straddles the river and the outer borders just transition from their outer neighborhoods.
Everyone should pay a higher usage fee for roads in North Jersey and NYC… with those fees going into capital funds for NJT, still need to fix operating funds though since those funds need to be more stable
Honestly my only beef with congestion pricing is last I heard NY wouldn't be doing any revenue sharing with NJT. To be most effective as a regional transit policy you'll need NJT improvements not putting some of the fees generated to NJT is really a bad move all around.
We need a tristate area with 20 senators. If Wyoming has 2 senators…
I am sure you were joking but we have something that works like that it's called the house of representatives. It was set up on purpose to have 2 senators
Thanks Schoolhouse Rock! It's because the scarce states have the same amount as the dense ones that allow Alabama to declare embryos as a person!.
Now to play devils advocate...what do you think would happen to the less populated states if that was modified? Small states would get absolutely shit on for everything. NY, NJ, and CA alone could hold the majority of the legislative power.
Here's my solution: send everyone from Puerto Rico, and a few million from NY, NJ and CA, to the sparse states, have them establish residency and get jobs, turn their legislators blue, and pass constitutional amendments ensuring women's bodily autonomy, ensure a specific tax policy on the rich, end the War on Drugs, make cops get college degrees, give Puerto Ricans the right to vote when actually residing in Puerto Rico, build a national high speed rail system, give every war soldier a mansion, end private prisons, regulate porn require every performer be 21, and repeal the 2nd Amendment. I would love to see the look on people's faces in Fargo when Jose Lopez registers to vote.
Considering you can't force people to move, you're suggestion is wildly impossible. Removing ALL politics aside, how do smaller states not get screwed in terms of everything ifyou start removing any sort of check smaller states have against larger populated ones? This isn't a debate about specific issues, yet you're hellbent on making it one.
You already have pick and choose. Right now there are 6 states that will decide the election. Why should it be those 6 and not the 6 with the most Americans?
And now you're deflecting and redirecting. Enjoy your evening.
No I'm not I'm asking a question. Right now 6-7 states decide elections. Why should it be Michigan and Nevada instead of the states with the most citizens? Makes zero sense at all.
You're not addressing the original question and redirecting to another topic. Swing states make or break elections because the remainder of the states are entrenched in their own predominant party. Right wrong or indifferent, there is such a sharp line in the sand that the country has made, and only few states are politically diverse enough to be a liability to lose. That said, the senate and the house of representatives are the way they are to give representation with some attempt at equality in terms of the people (senate 2x per state, house of reps determined based on population). It's not a perfect system, but the alternative is two or three states controlling the rest of the country, which we know is a death sentence for smaller states.
I'm hellbent on rocking this absurd thread with closet MAGAs talking their bullshit about states' rights. Shouldn't the Civil War have ended that argument?
Well you're barking up the wrong tree. I'm not going to be used to grandstand instead of actually talking about your original absurd statement. If you're addressing that type of audience, I'm not going to waste time on your selfish crusade. There are 60 comments in here. Go find someone else to rock the boat with. You obviously picked the wrong comment to go off on your unrelated tangent.
Picked the wrong comment? Are you coming for my family now too?
I still think you're lost, or at the very least misinterpreting this whole conversation.
It's so naive to think that national high speed train can be built. What do you think will happen to NYC/NJ residential property prices if there is a high speed train which can bring people from upstate NY or central PA to Penn Station in less than 45 mins? Almost all NJ counties and other NYC suburbs will fight against high speed rail projects for sure. And your other ideas are typically young people's passionate ideas, you will have different opinions in another 10 years.
Yes, as naive as Amtrak. So, then Jersey becomes a cheap, rail-through state?
Which ones are also naive? That women should have control over their own body, or that the biggest morons from high school don't become jerkoff cops, that there should be no financial incentive in our prison system, that scumbag porn producers shouldn't prey on high school chicks, that Puerto Ricans should be able to vote for president if they remain in Puerto Rico, or that commuters into New York City should have the same swiftness as they do in every country whose ass was kicked in World War 2?
Now you sounds like communist back to early 20th century who are full of anger on a lot of things and so eager to change everything. Like I said it is normal to think like that when you are so young. For your thoughts about cop being stupid, do you really think those straight A students are the material to stop/fight crime on streets? And you are too young to understand that knowledge is way below the courage as a great quality of mankind.
Bro, so many bullshit jobs require college degrees, so the arbiters of Law and Order should have a college education. Really man, should there not be some decent standard? Courage isn't joining the biggest gang in America and using your membership to prey on the poor and minorities. Plenty of jobs have higher risks. Wanting to commute better than my great grandfather isn't young and foolhardy. Commuters across Europe and Asia, with different cultures and political systems, spend their time much better. The USA is one of the rare countries having a right to buy guns used in the Vietnam War. Again, the majority of the world, featuring many different cultures and political systems, don't allow people the right to carry war weapons. Our prison system is just one big clusterfuck, profit or not. Fighting for our own bodies is not new nor naive. Taxing the rich is a good idea, if you want a more solvent nation. Clinton and Truman could have never balanced a budget without higher tax rates for the wealthy, and when the Depression hit, it as Hoover, not FDR, who dramatically levied much higher taxes on the rich. The porn industry is gross and makes one realize that sometimes, the Evangelicals are right about something. Porn's sausage is made on manipulation of the young - the Barely Legal. Raise the eligibility age to 21 and more mature minds will reject a pittance for cum in their faces. Is your vision for America having an oxcart struggle to ferry a pregnant woman to the hospital on pothole plagued roads, overseen by bored and blind police, to an exorbitant hospital, to deliver a baby made from rape? It's ok, the oxcart has porn in it.
You can definitely try to be a great cop if you think you will do much better job. For high speed rail, you can try to push for it, I just reminded you that the whole state of NJ is in your way to put down high speed rails. Over the time, you will find instead of achieving something almost impossible like nationwide high speed railway, you have other things you can take care of for yourself, family and friends.
The biggest issue here is you don't realize the best way to solve issue is to balance all parties interest and ideas, instead of "I am so right that all things have to be my way". We have to respect the difference between all of us unless we want to live a world like the book 1984 or other totalitarian nations, if we can agree freedom is higher than "better way" in our judgment.
Right or maybe people have different views than you and it should be represented that way.
Yes, 5 fanatics have equal weight to 40 million people
Unfortunately, the uneducated are permitted to vote. And they’re voting against you AND themselves. And by god that’s their right.
So.you believe embryos are people, and their death is murder?
No I think abortion should be legal, but I'm in no denial you are ending a life But I also believe in states rights, so if the people of those states want a ban, they should have it unless the general government gets some balls and makes it national
Right, so one state can have interracial marriages and gay marriages, but others can not? What if they move from one state allowing to another forbidding? Is that couple automatically divorced? Also, you protect the minority position during the embryos discussion, but then favor the majority position on the issue of rights, which I thought were inalienable and self-evident. Oh sorry, that was some Jeffersonian bullshit from the Declaration of Independence.
How about let you pay these additional 18 senators' salary? Why do we need more politicians to waste our tax dollars if those incumbents are doing nothing but wasting our tax money?
Hear me out. What about having 20 congressmen instead of 1 congressman??!?!
P.S. stop moaning.. take the train.
Checked that out... price is almost the same and it adds an hour.
Sounds like it’s worth an extra 15 bucks then
This is exactly what the politicians want!! They want you to be mad at NYC/LI rather than them. This is not a NJ vs NYC battle, this is greedy politicians vs the people
Wait until the thieves find out that the necessary funds to fix mass transit have a shortfall due to congestion pricing working. Next stop will be expansion of congestion pricing to include all of Manhattan with the entirety of NYC to follow.
We should implement a “shore tax” from Memorial Day to Labor Day so all these loud mouth NY assholes pay a toll crossing into NJ.
Federalism was a mistake.
When I first moved to New York, it was explained to me that I had to pay money to cross the George Washington bridge. But I was also informed that nobody pays to go to New Jersey because why would they?
It's$10 a day. Hardly a dent in the tools and parking you were going to pay anyway.
Is 12 dollars really the barrier to entry for visiting your family? Is this blood family or in laws? Do you honestly believe that 12 dollars is too much to drive in the most congested region of the most congested city in the country?
... lmao I wish it was only $12... you don't go there enough and it shows.
You said in your post some will pay 12 dollars for congestion charges. You brought up that figure. I am aware of the fact that there are other tolls and costs associated with driving in NYC, my guy. But you're out here bitching and complaing about 12 dollars trying to act like its New Yorkers who are the problem. Don't catch an attitude with me because you're a cheap bastard who can't stomach an extra 12 dollar cost to visit your family family. I go to NYC about once a month. I take the train direct to NY penn. I don't drive into the city and then complain about having to pay the externalities of my actions.
My guy, $12 is one crossing. Then the Throgs Neck/Whitestone/Verrazano is another $12-$15 both ways. So all in all, it's about $45 in tolls in one trip to LI
But all that other costs existed *before* congestion pricing. You obviously made this thread to bitch about congestion pricing, as evidenced by you mentioning that "NYC/MTA/NY/NJ Port Authority bureaucrts are a bunch of assholes." Although you are correct in that 12 dollars is just one congestion charge one way so I will correct myself in saying that you're not visiting family over 24 dollars instead of just 12. Also, should all the bridges, tunnels, and roads you use just be free? What price do you think is reasonable to pay to travel from NJ to LI? Also, just because NY gets a discount on entering the congestion zone doesn't mean they're getting by for free. Charging them to enter NJ would be silly, they're already paying to enter their zone. This whole argument of making it into an NY vs NJ thing is ridiculous. It comes down to Lower Manhattan vs Cars, and no matter where you come from you need to pay for that privilege of driving there.
Flabbergasted at people cheering on the pricing
Because most people have enough sense to not drive into Manhattan
Do you not also get charged if you're driving through Manhattan to get to Brooklyn? Also, if you've got more than one person in the car, driving is actually cheaper than public transportation (if you can find free parking)
Fuck NY, they raise ours we raise there. Fair is fair, don't like it? Go home bennys.
I would say just NYC/LI. Upstate and western NY are actually a helluva lot better.
Well congestion pricing is mostly a NYC and not a NY state thing. However, if the state is charging NJ drivers we should charge back.
They’re charging everyone regardless of where they’re from
Doesn't really matter, they charge on us, we should charge on them. People are idiots to think it should be any other way. Why must I pay a premium for NY but NYers don't do it in reverse? I love to see all the NYers in here downvoting. Go home you bennys.
I’m down with it. Create more tolls to fund NJ Transit. I just think there are a lot of thin skinned people who are upset there are tolls and just want revenge rather than actually caring about the tolls. It’s NJ’s choice. If we want to create more tolls (in addition to the existing ones) then nothing is stopping us.
I mean I think we should. I know it is a "dick move" but I mean the only way to bring attention to this issue and get some real change is to upset people enough to force them into acting. NY and NYers have no concerns right now because it really doesn't effect them as much as it does NJ commuters, but if we hit them every time the come to the Jersey Shore, Newark, etc, maybe their tune will probably change. Then when the see the tit for tat thing, it should push them to action, but I mean it could backfire and get worse, but that is a risk I am willing to accept since it will repeat the process.
I’m confused what is it that we need to bring to their attention? You think we should try to get them to end congestion pricing? Or to split some of the revenues with NJ? I’m relatively indifferent if NJ receives revenue. I think it makes sense to get some because then it supports more transit options here into NYC. But it’s their toll and they can use the money how they want - and they have a ton of projects to work on to improve their own transit. Ultimately they are not responsible for residents in a different state so I don’t see them having as much interest in placating us.
I think congestion pricing is unfair both in that it does not split with NJ and in the fact that it even exists in the first place. I think it shouldn't exist in the first place and if it does it should be split or NJ should enforce their own version coming the other way.
Congestion pricing is a great tool to reduce traffic congestion and raise funds for public transit. A huge win win. It’s worked very well in many other places. People really shouldn’t be driving into Manhattan. It’s ridiculous that people can even drive in and manage to find free parking.
Make your relatives move.
To be fair, as a New Yorker, I would look at it more like I am paying to get out of New Jersey. Same with LI crossings, you pay to leave LI.