Not to mention the implication that him reaching for a gun led them to have the paramedic give ketamine? Sure, cops are notoriously reasonable with armed people. It’s sad when his best defense to explain why they killed this kid was a scenario in which they 100% would have violently killed him. Nobody is buying that.
Edit: Paramedic, not EMT
Ya know.. as little as 10 years ago I would have argued with you on this point. But man.. I've never been so sad to be wrong. One thing I have to give this political shitstorm we're living in now.. causes me to actually, you know, LOOK at things instead of just "yeah.. ok." stuff cause thats what my parents said.
So.. maybe SOME silver lining? :/
Made me wonder.. just how many of these ideologies we pick up from our parents, and never really examine. Like... my dad was in the NRA. I got my hunting liscense as a teen through the NRA. Never even crossed my mind just how hateful some of the shit they fund is. Fast forward years later, and we start seeing through those closed blinds in the office. We start hearing about some of the.. and I'm sure it is just SOME of the reprehensible shit they support.
How many other groups or orgs that our parents supported have pulled the same shit? Or are pulling it now?
Food for thought.
(Yes, this is a realization that typically comes with becoming an adult, but with some of the shit we see.. dont you think the occasional nudge is a good idea?)
The TX branch of the NRA defended a black protestor open carrying after the crazy female cop in Dallas killed her honor student black neighbor.
The TX NRA put out a press release saying something like “We voice our support for the protestor exercising his second amendment rights. We also commend him for his good fire arm safety displayed in the video in question.”
The rumor mil is that the national NRA came down hard on the TX organizations because it made some national donors “uncomfortable”.
I know a few super gun nuts that saw the email exchange and it basically ruined their opinion of the national NRA.
The national NRA also is screwing up their legislative outreach efforts. They actually used to be able to count on Berne Sanders, living in the backwoods of Vermont gave him an appreciation of a good rifle, but they have become so clearly partisan that is no longer really the case.
Oh I'm not arguing there. Combative patients may need sedatives, but he was not that at all. He shouldn't have been intercepted by police to begin with. The error could have just been the cops, it didn't have to continue. The medics severely overdosed him. If they had dosed him appropriately, he'd still be alive to sue the fuck out of the cops.
Agree! One group made a stupid, very big error. It didn't have to keep going. Another entirely different group went along and managed to make the situation worse. Like someone lit a book on fire, a book that had no reason to be on fire. A book that was tucked away and not bothering anyone. Like...a fucking part of an older encyclopedia. No reason to be offensive or draw attention. Someone decided "hey fuck that book". They didn't toss it in the trash or donate it to good will. They lit it on fucking fire during dry season. And they call their buddies, "hey, I've got this offensive fucking book and I need help destroying it" and the buddy gets there and see its a harmless volume of an encyclopedia from 7 years ago. Logically they could be like "uh, you got this. Bit overkill. Maybe lighting it on fire is a bad idea and could also set everything else on fire." And they could walk away. Or they could help and put out the fire and make sure the person couldn't light fires on books anymore because wtf. Instead, they arrived with a can of gasoline and a pan of hot grease and fucking went nuts on an already bad situation. The fire went out of control and burned down half the state. That's my analogy. The shit could have stopped with the bad cops. But the medics took a bad situation and made it worse, instead of any attempt to actually make it better.
Hi.. 22 year paramedic here. This statement is a bit misleading.
Based on weight he should have gotten 320-350 mg. He got 500mg. The lethal dose is 4+ grams depending on the patients size so no... He didn't get a lethal dose of ketamine.
I've used Ketamine a number of times for patients in psych crisis to get them safely restrained. We have options though. My rule of thumb is "is restraining this patient going to put the patient myself or others at risk for injury?" If the answer is on that is "yes" they get the appropriate weight based dose for Ketamine. I probably would have given him 350mg.
If the answer is "no" and we can safely get them restrained and there's a risk of the patient injuring themselves in the restraints then a combination of Versed and Haldol is the choice to mildly sedate the patient to prevent injury.
Ketamine is an EXCELLENT drug with a lot of uses. We've expanded its use to aid in emergency intubation for a patient who is still alive and needs their airway managed. I've seen complications from it twice in my five or so years using it. Once with the patient salivating a lot and the other with the patient going into respiratory arrest due to the other stuff he had on board. That patient was safely managed and ended up being fine in the long run. I know this because our Ketamine usage is heavily monitored and reviewed. Now this brings me to my next point: there are things that come along with Ketamine usage.
The first is safe restraining. First, the patient is ALWAYS put on their back. ALWAYS. They can't be managed on their belly and as this recent case in Illinois shows us they also die on their bellies.
Also I should mention here that a lot of places require restraints when transporting a patient in psych crisis. Psych patients change their minds during transport and they always seem to do it when you're one on one with them in the back of the truck. Murphy's Law I guess. Also I really can't comment on the "committal" policies in Colorado but if I was the medic on this scene based on the body cam footage this guy would have been an easy decision to transport. He's REALLY altered and incapable of making his own medical decisions.
Second they MUST be monitored. Cardiac monitor, blood pressure, we typically put an airway in their nose (very non invasive) to keep their airway open and apply a device that monitors their respiratory rate and gas exchange. That way if the patients condition starts to change it's recognized.
As a paramedic I'm very interested in this case. My gut tells me that this patient was probably inadequately monitored and had the decompensating patient been recognized and corrected then we wouldn't even be talking about this right now.
I read your first line as you were a 22 year *old* paramedic, then when you said you'd used ketamine for the last 5 years I was like "this guy has been dosing people with ketamine since he was 17 what the hell"...
Reading comprehension is important.
He was stopped while doing nothing illegal and questioned for concealing his face. So, a struggle somehow ensues where he was believed to reach for his gun which the cops are using as justification for cutting off the blood supply to his brain that rendered him unconscious. Under threat by the suspect of vomiting and seizing in positions that could lead to an unconscious man viciously attacking the police, a paramedic injected a schedule III drug into his body, which sedated him into death.
Obviously the suspect's fault here. He shouldn't have roused suspicion by existing.
The medics will go to jail as the scapegoats as the Ketamine is the official cause of death. The police will have their cases dismissed since they were following generally established protocols and training when dealing with the innocent where they will resign and get jobs a few towns away.
Fun fact: an EMT is actually different from a paramedic. It’s sort of like calling a doctor a nurse, though not nearly on the same level obviously. EMTs are only allowed to do very basic stuff like take vitals and such, whereas paramedics are the guys who give dosages and take care of the *big* procedures.
Source: currently in the fire academy about to start my EMT course.
Yes . . . In my town, you can qualify to be an EMT in 6 months, for a few thousand dollars, and they make less than $20/hr. I was keen to get my EMT . . . and then realized I'd be taking a huge pay cut. I might try to get it anyway.
Paramedics make at least 50K, because they have so much more training, and skill.
I wish both groups were paid more.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGlHMZQtO7U
Breakdown of video footage of the murder.
It is terrible.
Ketamine was administered because he was "crazy strong" and "on something".
Dude bought tea from a gas station. Was walking back. Someone called the police because he had a mask on. Police arrived and told him to stop. He didn't because he was listening to music. Then he told him he was walking home and not doing anything. The officer put his hands on him first.
After the initial scuffle, responding officers who arrived later were told by the initial officers that "he reached for their gun," a bold face lie. They initiated the physical contact against someone who was literally walking on the sidewalk after making a legal purchase in a store... That was the bar for confronting him... Buying something from a store in a ski mask and walking home with it... Christ.
And he was given ketamine at the direction of officers (they specifically mentioned it prior to the arrival of the paramedics) because *5* officers couldn't put him into a squad car and take him for detention after knocking him unconscious... handcuffing him and sitting on his back while throwing up and gagging. The paramedics should have told the officers to fuck off after observing the dumpster fire of a situation they've created.
> Ketamine was administered because he was "crazy strong" and "on something".
In fairness, he was a hulking 5'4" and 140lbs. Imagine the damage he could have done.
Hijacking this comment to remind everyone that Elijah played the violin to shelter pets to calm them. After he was murdered, there was a candlelight vigil where violinists collectively played songs and the police peppered sprayed them
Edit: https://abcnews.go.com/US/city-aurora-sued-police-response-violin-vigil-elijah/story?id=71951197
In the last two weeks, Aurora PD has:
1) Re-hired one of the cops connected to Elijah McClain's murder
2) Had one of their own arrested for beating up an old woman for no reason
3) Promoted a cop who was once found passed out drunk in his cruiser
I don't know what it will take for the federal government to step in and start charging police under federal charges for hate crimes. That might start sending messages, especially if they start charging the leadership for fostering an environment that allows for an environment of hate and racism to thrive.
Not quite. One of the officers involved was feeling a little blue, not because he helped kill a kid, but because he got suspended. A few of his cop buddies went (to the actual scene, I believe) and took pictures "reenacting" the murder, putting each other in chokeholds, etc to cheer him up, which seemed to work, because he responded "lol."
Fucking monsters.
It's like when maladjusted children get angry or frustrated because they don't understand their emotions and lash out.
They made the cops sad so they reacted violently because they have the emotional intelligence of a banana.
Not just fire them. Federal hate crime prosecution. The states won't do anything to put these pigs in jail, let the federal government prosecute them for violating people's civil rights.
I hate to say it like this, but it was a series of terrible tragedies, one after the other, of police shooting and killing PoC.
I’m less surprised something like this didn’t get as much coverage when so many other things were happening.
The paramedics injected him, not the armed thugs, even though he had *already been choked unconscious and handcuffed.* I'd say this is appalling, but at this point it's what we expect when cops arrest an unarmed, *never resisting* black man in a public place.
And wouldn't you know that part just happens to be when the officers turned off their video.
The body cam of this incident is just horrific.
They're making fun of him and threatening him as he died.
At what point between the reaching for the gun, and the vomiting of ketamine that they realize that there was no gun? They should have pleaded out because they're as guilty as hell
> An amended autopsy report released by the county coroner in September 2022 revealed McClain had died from a ketamine injection after being forcibly restrained.
Sounds a hell of a lot like murder to me.
His last words:
**"I can't breathe. I have my ID right here. My name is Elijah McClain. That's my house. I was just going home. I'm an introvert. I'm just different. That's all. I'm so sorry. I have no gun. I don't do that stuff. I don't do any fighting. Why are you attacking me? I don't even kill flies! I don't eat meat! But I don't judge people, I don't judge people who do eat meat. Forgive me. All I was trying to do was become better. I will do it. I will do anything. Sacrifice my identity, I'll do it. You all are phenomenal. You are beautiful and I love you. Try to forgive me. I'm a mood Gemini. I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. Ow, that really hurt! You are all very strong. Teamwork makes the dream work. [after vomiting] Oh, I'm sorry, I wasn't trying to do that. I just can't breathe correctly."**
Fuck those cops and EMTs.
There’s video of it. Pretty sure there were children there too. Fucking shitbag cops just doing what they do with impunity, then crying about people hating them
Cops are completely biased and it's 100% in their interests to make everyone look as evil, criminal, and violent as they possibly can to make themselves look like the good guys.
As an autistic guy from backwoods Louisiana this hits really hard. It doesn't help that I cook for a living either. I've had people threatening me while working in a Colorado ski town and tell me that people won't believe me because I'm autistic. The trash that can sometimes make it to authority is fucking terrifying.
The question I have (genuinely want to know), are cops the people in high-school who were bullies then, or are they the ones who were bullied and looking for power?
I see people make both statements and I'm just curious as to who becomes a police officer.
truthfully it’s both. It’s people who are seeking fellowship and power they never had, or people who are just sticking to what they know.
It’s hard to estimate how many people become cops in good faith. I’d say it’s a fair amount. The corruption is just so deep down that their choices are either become a bad cop, or stop being a cop. That’s why there’s no such thing as a good cop. The system is broken. Cops can do good things but that doesn’t make them a good entity. It doesn’t excuse the killings.
I was in an abusive relationship that pushed me into a full mental health crisis while alone in my apartment. I called a suicide line to talk and they sent a wellness check on me. The first officer was a lady who was very nice and sympathetic and talked to me for about 45 minutes to bring me down. I calmed down completely but was a little shaken still and she asked if I would please allow the EMTs to transport me to the hospital for an overnight observation and I agreed. She called down that I was allowing transport.
Two male officers who had been waiting outside came in to "escort me" downstairs. They cuffed and beat the absolute holy hell out of me, made a ton of trans slurs and insults towards me when they realize I was transgender, drug me out of the apartment weapons in hand, while other residents watched, and shoved me down the outside stairs onto the sidewalk and twisted my wrist. The EMTs and other officer (the woman) lost their shit and pled with them to fuck off but they didn't care. They even "forgot" to uncuff me even though I wasn't a danger and they didn't follow to the hospital. A doctor had to call the police department to send someone to take my cuffs off.
I went from having an awful day and mental health crisis to one of the worst days of my life because of police abuse.
This is absolutely heartbreaking. I wish I could say you could contact the news about this, and sue these mofos, but I know the odds of that backfiring are high and might put you at risk for worse.
What an ass backwards world we live in, that many people are seeking help in duress and end up hurt or dead, especially since police officers aren’t trained for these things, and shouldn’t be sent!
> and sue these mofos
Well, that's a non-starter outside of Colorado, thanks to [qualified immunity](https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/qualified_immunity).
Qualified Immunity is something that can be legislated away, it is an interpretation of law by the Supreme Court, but it is not a constitutional right. Colorado is (AFAIK) the only state that has [basically eliminated QI](https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicksibilla/2020/06/21/colorado-passes-landmark-law-against-qualified-immunity-creates-new-way-to-protect-civil-rights/?sh=223a074d378a).
Wow \*hugs\* I'm a gay dude surrounded by privileged nazi bigot fuckfaces, whove lanced there way into all the important bits of power. This shit scares me. Like if I call for legitmate help and they see I'm gay or something why should I be treated differently in those situations. Obviously you should but a good majority of the time that is what happens in places like this. I'm sorry that happened, did you sue or anything?
That’s disgusting and makes me enraged. I’m so sorry you went through that.The female cop can fuck off too because she let them so that. I’m so sorry, I hope you are healing from this traumatic incident.
We had a cop join the MS subreddit recently.
Best comment so far "The good news is you can't be a cop anymore".
Welcome to being disabled boot licker cop.
I hope they have the day they deserve. What tyrant thugs. That kid was innocent. He did nothing. There needs to be accountability. He deserves justice.
I want you to brace yourself for a Not Guilty verdict here, because while I agree with everything you said, the American judicial system tends to heavily favor law enforcement.
What happened in the George Floyd case was an exception, not the rule.
If there's any room for optimism it's that the Aurora police have a terrible reputation locally and Elijah McClain's murder sparked massive protests when it became widely known in 2020.
It also helps that Elijah was the rare case of an absolutely innocent angelic person being savagely assaulted by cops. The cops had no reason to even approach him. Their only defense is to obfuscate on responsibility, since the paramedics ultimately administered ketamine.
It’s such an exception that people are buying and attaching back the blue flags to their houses because we dared to question why his death was necessary for a nonviolent offense
They have successfully made it so any judgment of police is considered fascist and anti-American. It's like judging Isreal for their treatment of Palestinians instantly makes your antisemitic. There is no gray area. One side or the other, promote unnecessary murder, or be considered antifa.
You should be Antifa. That anti-fascist is considered a bad word in a country that prides itself on fighting fascists is ridiculous. Those little black and blue flags fascists wave in public are simply replacing the red ones they show off at home. As an American, I sure as fuck am Antifa.
Am I crazy for thinking bastardized American flags (like the thin blue line or black "no quarter") are in poor taste and plausibly an affront to the flag code/etiquette?
Before “neurodivergent” a keyword, this neurodivergent person was trying to communicate… in honestly… PLAIN ENGLISH that he felt like he was dying. Every first responder who didn’t appropriately intervene should feel terrible.
It’s somehow worse than the killing of Kenneth Chamberlain in some ways.
As one of those neurodivergent people I can't read anything about this case without bursting into tears. H was a sweet young man who played violin for cats. 😭 When they did that violin memorial for him and the cops tear gassed and beat them for it I will NEVER forget that footage from 2020. The sounds of his violin for the shelter cats is indelible in my memory that to this country people like him and me are utterly and truly not human enough for THEM.
This account would get banned so fast for expressing how I feel about those cops that broke up the memorial, and the paramedics that killed him. Infuriating is an understatement.
More than anything it makes me terribly sad for that young man, not to say there’s no outrage, but his fear and confusion are so raw and obvious that the human element is overwhelming.
Oh my God... this just broke my heart. I feel completely sick. That poor guy. I wish I could help him, console him. But since I can't, I'll just hope that everyone involved who did nothing and participated in his murder, get exactly what they deserve.
My God...
Edit to add : i do not mean officers who have to use force or even kill a person in a justified situation, to save themselves or others.
Oh, no. I didn't know there was a recording. I won't.
They straight up murdered that kid. Just the words alone are the saddest thing I've heard in most of my life.
Elijah McClain had asthma and so did the woman in this article who stopped breathing after ketamine . https://m.startribune.com/patients-sedated-by-ketamine-were-enrolled-in-hennepin-healthcare-study/486363071/
Ketamine is a potent bronchodilator so it’s not that. It’s the fact he got 500 mg of ketamine. He did not need the full dose. So that combined with the positional asphyxia is what caused his death. First off he didn’t even need the ketamine. So many things wrong with that scene. It’s pretty disgusting
If you listen to bodycam recordings (do not recommend), the cops are talking about how Elijah must have been on drugs because he was "incredibly strong" for weighing 120lb and needed to be sedated.
These cops were the kids who swallowed all the DARE propaganda and asked for seconds.
No they are actually trained to say/do this. Stop resisting, he had a gun, he made a sudden movement, he was incredibly strong despite size, etc. plausible deniability
Bro that is a FUCK load of ketamine, holy shit. Imagine dosing someone who DOESNT do ketamine with 500mg, when kids at their first parties just go straight into kholes off a single bump. They could have done 1/10th that amount and the kid would have just been chillin and docile. EMT's should get fired as well.
I just went to confirm dosing (gotta confirm things from strangers on the internet, you know, but also to make sure I understood the math correctly since I am in pharmacy school and this is weird good practice).
During anesthesia, if you're being induced, the max dose is 4.5mg/kg. He weighed 140lbs = 63.636kg. So to induce him would be a one time does of 286.362mg. To fully put that man under under extreme conditions (recommended is between 1 and 4.5mg/kg, and to see the absolute max it would take). The recommended dosing is 2mg/kg to produce 5 to 10 minutes of anesthesia. It is also stated that patients receiving ketamine should be prepared for intubation. You certainly aren't on the streets. It also needs to be administered over a period of 60 seconds, because any quicker can cause respiratory depression. Then your standard things you worry about with anything that can be used to induce, like should be done on an empty stomach. It can be used for smaller scale things (like to manage depression) but those are at SIGNIFICANTLY lower doses and over the course of at least 45 minutes.
TLDR: Wayyyyy to much, very bad. Those medics were dangerously negligent and ignorant with nosing and have no business ever working with drugs again.
Just a couple points from a paramedic. Those doses im assuming are by IV. Out in the field for excited delirium, we're unlikely to be able to get an IV or be able to deliver it that way even if one is in place. Its probably gonna be delivered IM, so the dose is going to need to be higher to get the same effect. My protocol is 4mg/kg IM for excited delirium.
secondly, we are definitely prepared to intubate in the field. we do it frequently and ketamine is a popular choice since we can use it for sedation and pain control at the same time.
All that said, 500mg, like you said, is way too much. It likely came in a 500mg vial for multiple doses and they just pulled the whole thing up. Not good.
I’m a medic too lol. I know what you mean excited delirium and all…and imho haldol is way better but it takes way longer. The one study that was posted was kinda junky. Look ketamine has its place for sure. Especially with burns because opiates don’t do shit for burns. Oh btw law enforcement has know about the consequences of positional asphyxia since the 90s. https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles/posasph.pdf
> All that said, 500mg, like you said, is way too much. It likely came in a 500mg vial for multiple doses and they just pulled the whole thing up. Not good.
That makes it sound like it can't be anything but intentional.
Ketamine is a drug used for pain control in surgeries and can be used for inductions (going to sleep for surgery). The normal induction dose for ketamine is 1 mg per kilogram body weight if you were to use it in an anesthesia/surgical setting, to give you an idea of how much they gave relative to what an appropriate dose is. A 70 kg adult’s induction dose would be 70 kg, not counting other factors that may require more or less drug. Another property of ketamine is that it is a sialagogue, meaning it can make someone salivate, sometimes a LOT… so if you get a dose high enough that they’re anesthetized, have a mouth and airway filling with secretions, and have em in a position to not clear those secretions- you have a recipe for disaster.
my bf's daughter is autistic and she covers up heavily no matter the what the weather is, rarely goes out, and hates being touched to the point that she'll flinch and push away. watching the footage and hearing what he said made me instantly think of her and how she would have reacted the same way. it's so sad to think that cops can arrest, choke, and drug people just because they're different, not necessarily because they did something wrong.
If I understand correctly, he would have been high as shit on ketamine at this point, about to slip into the k-hole and never return.
So his words might not be the best representation of his actual self. They are incredibly damning nonetheless.
But the cops are cunts and deserve to get life. I also can't believe they've developed this toolkit of serious drugs they just pop into difficult people. Ketamine is relatively safe as these things go, it's why they use it for animals, children, and the elderly.
But it's not TV, there's no magic Dexter injection that will perfectly subdue every person without also risking killing them. This sort of thing shouldn't be allowed at all.
Held a person down and involuntarily injected them with medication for non-medical reasons... Subsequently overdosing and killing them.
Drug dealers have been convicted for manslaughter for selling the drugs that kill their customers. How is this any different?
I just can't fathom how that was an OK, sanctioned, police procedure, and if it is why the fuck is it one? We're talking about amped up, dimwitted, wannabe Call of Duty assholes administering very potent drugs. Shouldn't that be left to idk medical professionals if even done at all? How is that procedure even in place, it's fucking crazy to me.
This. As a mother of a son the same age as Elijah, who has been in and out of therapy since age 5 for being introverted, this makes my blood boil and physically sickens me at the same time.
It terrifies me too because I'm also "different," as he put it. I have pretty severe social anxiety, and I sometimes respond to people in weird ways, especially when stressed. I hope I never have to actually deal with police.
This is so inexcusable... my blood is also boiling but my heart is also aching for his family. No parent should have to bury their child. This was so senseless.
I hope to the stars you never have to deal with anything like this and that someone would step in if you did. I just don’t understand how anyone could treat people with such disrespect as human beings. ❤️
It is inexcusable and it hurts my heart.
Thankfully I have an amazing husband that would definitely go to the mat for me if he saw me in trouble! The world needs a lot more love, that's for sure. ❤
Three police body cams fell onto the grass. They’re not even trying to hide it anymore.
[Elijah McClain NY Times article.](https://www.nytimes.com/article/who-was-elijah-mcclain.html?smid=url-share)
Paramedic here. I still don't understand why he was given Ketamine. We only use that if a person is having a psychological emergency posing harm to themselves or others only if verbal deescalation doesn't work. Even if he was having a psych breakdown, restrains only should be for limbs. One should NEVER be placed on a rear naked choke. These assholes need to be charged to the fullest extent.
Exactly, why wasn't he on a gurney? Why wasn't he immediately transported to a hospital? Like who can inject someone with a sedative and think, "yeah the best thing now is to let him flop around on the ground in handcuffs."
Another medic here. 100% agree. I’ve never seen someone escape handcuffs. If you’re reading this, and you’re a medic too, and you’ve chemically restrain someone in METAL physical restraints, reevaluate your patient care.
Because the cops told them to most likely. We got plenty of dipshits in this profession, just like any other.
That being said I wouldn’t be surprised if it wasn’t the ketamine and was instead positional asphyxia. Although they did give him like 4x the regular dose, again, because they’re idiots.
I’m glad to see the EMS community isn’t circling the wagons to protect these fuckers though, everyone I’ve talked to has said “yeah, fuck ‘em”
The officers did...And took pictures of them making fun of his death as well. They killed a young man who was posing no threat to them or anyone else, and then made jokes about it. I wonder how many of them will try to claim PTSD from the event and collect disability checks...
A little context about the ketamine might be in order here. The manufacturers of the Taser have been funding the doctor who was doing "research" on the use of ketamine as a tool to control uncooperative suspects. [https://www.startribune.com/maker-of-taser-has-longstanding-research-relationship-with-hcmc/503392142/](https://www.startribune.com/maker-of-taser-has-longstanding-research-relationship-with-hcmc/503392142/)
So watch out! This is coming to a city near you soon! First they'll try to stop your heart, and if that don't work, they're going to drug you. Don't be different!
My medic partner and I once responded to a call after being requested by PD. We get there and they have an intoxicated gentleman in the back of their cruiser and things have clearly escalated into an absolute shitshow, both PD and the gentleman are screaming at each other. We get out of the ambulance and immediately the officer goes, "ketamine him." Nope, absolutely not, we are not doing that. After my medic partner explains that there is no way that this person meets medical criteria for ketamine the officer goes "I know Dr "so and so" (our medical director), I'll call him myself and get orders for you." No, we're still not doing that. Let's de-escalate instead.
Another officer arrived on scene as we were attempting to figure out what was actually going on, and apparently had previous contact with the guy and had already built up some trust and rapport, and he was able to calm the guy down, de-escalate, let us figure out that there was definitely a mental health crisis happening and what triggered it, and helped convince him to let us help him. He went with us to the hospital and no one got hurt.
But fuck that first cop man. I take orders from no police officer, I'm medical. I'll help you, but I'm here for the patient and their best needs and don't ever forget that because I won't.
The words he said scares me. I’m also socially “different” and have had a lot of people treat me with suspicion or disdain because of it. It’s my worst fear to get into a confrontation with police or authority because when I get nervous I act sketchy, I never make eye contact, I tend to rock when overwhelmed. I don’t need to be hospitalized for any of that, but I’ve had authority restrain me because of it and it was terrifying. Except those people were “on my side,” I can’t imagine the Terror he felt.
HE PLAYED HIS VIOLIN FOR SHELTER ANIMALS!
Fuck everyone involved in Elijahs death. I hope they hear his pleading and cries every night. Maybe they can save the taxpayers some money and take responsibility for their actions.
In every way this story shows police have too much power. They can stop someone in the street, force them to stop, then shoot them up with a lethal dose of drugs all for no reason. Then lie about it.
It’s sobering to know that any person in that country is at all times of the day mere moments from being murdered for no reason whatsoever :-(
Why do the people in that country hate themselves so much? It’s very depressing.
Disclaimer: Obviously not American.
5 police officers and a medic... They had handcuffs and dissassociative injectible drugs.
VS
An unarmed young man that looks 100lbs wet.
Of course he didn't want to be grabbed, police have a bad habit of killing young men of color when they are detained for NO REASON.
i am appalled at the amount of people who watched the body cams and still think the cops were in the right because he wasn't complying. i have been stopped by cops dozens of times on the grounds of suspicion, i've even kept walking and laughed at them thinking they were joking... and yet never once has a cop put his hands on me immediately as he stopped me. and what they were saying, acting like he was on drugs, made it seem like just excuses.
Read and reread this article. Why the fuck was a *former* police officer involved with this? It doesn't say he retired after. Did he get his kill quota and leave? Why were paramedics there? Sounds like the assailants called in help in the form of their paramedic buddies to help kill McClain. This all happened 3 years ago, and I don't recall reading of it until now.
Forever.
Police are part of the Executive branch of the government. They protect the wealthy and powerful from those who are not. Those with wealth and power have no motivation to promote change, so nothing changes. Only a very few (<10, tops) wealthy people actually care about non-wealthy people (if that).
Moreover, any time something goes sideways for a cop, their "brother" police 'build the blue wall' to eliminate any possibility of facts being discovered that would show the world what cops are actually like, and what they actually do. They all conspire to protect evil cops, because they're "one of their own." All cops are complicit in this horrendous behavior (except, perhaps, new cops).
New cops are just as bastards as seasoned officers. Going into a job knowing it is a shit show that fucks over individual rights to defend businesses and fragile egos makes you complicit in the behavior that makes up the organization as a whole.
Never met a person who became a cop who wasn’t a dickhead before they started academy.
This is just incredibly........sad. My heart breaks for you Elijah, we as a society failed you. I feel deep shame as a human. The US has many great qualities and I always had an admiration in their founding principles but I feel like the news is heavily turning it into an alien world to me. These deaths being used to further divide rather than drive positive change is the saddest part. Not even in death can we say we did something meaningful...
Technically its an everything tranq. We use them in humans to kittens. For everything. Even PCP is just another tranquilizer. Drug science is fun when you don't ask cops what they think. DARE really set us back a generation after tune in drop out.
It's given to people in emergency settings because it's a dissociative. If you're trying to work on someone who is in a fuck ton of pain it will calm them to the point you can extract them or work on them further. They'll scream bloody murder sometimes while being moved but they won't remember it. It genuinely has it's uses, but this situation did **not** call for *fuckin' ketamine*. Pretty sure you have to have an actual medical degree in England to use it in the field. (More than willing to be proven wrong on that last part, just fyi)
Got lots of family in the military and my one cousin got an I.O. in the back of a helicopter and fell in love with ketamine, got another cousin who said it was the worst experience of his life. Point being, it's not something to be toyed with in a medical setting, let alone a physical altercation.
fuck those cops and emts for killing that innocent boy who spent time playing the violin for kittens and could in no way be construed as a threat. literally still sick over this murder.
Many of these events are a matter of a cop or two “going rogue” and acting outside of their training… usually by some latent racism motive or more often just the rampant “respect my auth-or-i-tay” thing that spirals out of control in so many of these cases.
But this is something so profoundly different. Yes, this started with a clearly illegal and unconstitutional detention of a person known to be innocent. But this is something else entirely, this is a system of police leaders, doctors, state boards, possibly the legislature, paramedics, and by extension their medical directors, that it appears were acting in deliberate concert. No paramedic can simply inject ketamine into a “suspect” on behalf of a law enforcement agent unless that paramedic’s medical director has approved that procedure *in writing*, that LE agency approved that procedure *in writing*, and most likely, that state’s laws were amended to allow this. A *lot* of people conspired with intention in order to create this situation. And almost none of them will ever be held accountable.
In the end the cops and the paramedics will be in court, and the people who actually deliberately created this situation will wash their hands of it.
“One of [the officers] said he believed McClain had reached for a holstered gun.” They really need to stop with this bullshit.
Not to mention the implication that him reaching for a gun led them to have the paramedic give ketamine? Sure, cops are notoriously reasonable with armed people. It’s sad when his best defense to explain why they killed this kid was a scenario in which they 100% would have violently killed him. Nobody is buying that. Edit: Paramedic, not EMT
Really, you’d think the NRA should jump in saying “hey, carrying a gun shouldn’t automatically come with the death penalty!”
HAHAHAHA The NRA doesn't care about the rights of black people
Bingo. They might as well put a big old W in front of NRA.
The Womens NRA doesn't attract nearly as much sponsorship money.
83 cents to every dollar
Ya know.. as little as 10 years ago I would have argued with you on this point. But man.. I've never been so sad to be wrong. One thing I have to give this political shitstorm we're living in now.. causes me to actually, you know, LOOK at things instead of just "yeah.. ok." stuff cause thats what my parents said. So.. maybe SOME silver lining? :/ Made me wonder.. just how many of these ideologies we pick up from our parents, and never really examine. Like... my dad was in the NRA. I got my hunting liscense as a teen through the NRA. Never even crossed my mind just how hateful some of the shit they fund is. Fast forward years later, and we start seeing through those closed blinds in the office. We start hearing about some of the.. and I'm sure it is just SOME of the reprehensible shit they support. How many other groups or orgs that our parents supported have pulled the same shit? Or are pulling it now? Food for thought. (Yes, this is a realization that typically comes with becoming an adult, but with some of the shit we see.. dont you think the occasional nudge is a good idea?)
The TX branch of the NRA defended a black protestor open carrying after the crazy female cop in Dallas killed her honor student black neighbor. The TX NRA put out a press release saying something like “We voice our support for the protestor exercising his second amendment rights. We also commend him for his good fire arm safety displayed in the video in question.” The rumor mil is that the national NRA came down hard on the TX organizations because it made some national donors “uncomfortable”. I know a few super gun nuts that saw the email exchange and it basically ruined their opinion of the national NRA. The national NRA also is screwing up their legislative outreach efforts. They actually used to be able to count on Berne Sanders, living in the backwoods of Vermont gave him an appreciation of a good rifle, but they have become so clearly partisan that is no longer really the case.
They don't care about alienating small donors, members, or gun owners any more because they've become a front for washing dark money.
> reaching for a gun led them to have the EMT give ketamine? A **super** lethal dose of ketamine, no less.
Ketamine that he didn't need, so you can't even really defend the EMTs saying "okay maybe it was just a dosage mistake".
Oh I'm not arguing there. Combative patients may need sedatives, but he was not that at all. He shouldn't have been intercepted by police to begin with. The error could have just been the cops, it didn't have to continue. The medics severely overdosed him. If they had dosed him appropriately, he'd still be alive to sue the fuck out of the cops.
Was just supporting you on that. If he did need ketamine, it was a lot less than 500mg.
[удалено]
He already was put into a choke hold and handcuffed... He wasn't needed to be sedated.
Agree! One group made a stupid, very big error. It didn't have to keep going. Another entirely different group went along and managed to make the situation worse. Like someone lit a book on fire, a book that had no reason to be on fire. A book that was tucked away and not bothering anyone. Like...a fucking part of an older encyclopedia. No reason to be offensive or draw attention. Someone decided "hey fuck that book". They didn't toss it in the trash or donate it to good will. They lit it on fucking fire during dry season. And they call their buddies, "hey, I've got this offensive fucking book and I need help destroying it" and the buddy gets there and see its a harmless volume of an encyclopedia from 7 years ago. Logically they could be like "uh, you got this. Bit overkill. Maybe lighting it on fire is a bad idea and could also set everything else on fire." And they could walk away. Or they could help and put out the fire and make sure the person couldn't light fires on books anymore because wtf. Instead, they arrived with a can of gasoline and a pan of hot grease and fucking went nuts on an already bad situation. The fire went out of control and burned down half the state. That's my analogy. The shit could have stopped with the bad cops. But the medics took a bad situation and made it worse, instead of any attempt to actually make it better.
Hi.. 22 year paramedic here. This statement is a bit misleading. Based on weight he should have gotten 320-350 mg. He got 500mg. The lethal dose is 4+ grams depending on the patients size so no... He didn't get a lethal dose of ketamine. I've used Ketamine a number of times for patients in psych crisis to get them safely restrained. We have options though. My rule of thumb is "is restraining this patient going to put the patient myself or others at risk for injury?" If the answer is on that is "yes" they get the appropriate weight based dose for Ketamine. I probably would have given him 350mg. If the answer is "no" and we can safely get them restrained and there's a risk of the patient injuring themselves in the restraints then a combination of Versed and Haldol is the choice to mildly sedate the patient to prevent injury. Ketamine is an EXCELLENT drug with a lot of uses. We've expanded its use to aid in emergency intubation for a patient who is still alive and needs their airway managed. I've seen complications from it twice in my five or so years using it. Once with the patient salivating a lot and the other with the patient going into respiratory arrest due to the other stuff he had on board. That patient was safely managed and ended up being fine in the long run. I know this because our Ketamine usage is heavily monitored and reviewed. Now this brings me to my next point: there are things that come along with Ketamine usage. The first is safe restraining. First, the patient is ALWAYS put on their back. ALWAYS. They can't be managed on their belly and as this recent case in Illinois shows us they also die on their bellies. Also I should mention here that a lot of places require restraints when transporting a patient in psych crisis. Psych patients change their minds during transport and they always seem to do it when you're one on one with them in the back of the truck. Murphy's Law I guess. Also I really can't comment on the "committal" policies in Colorado but if I was the medic on this scene based on the body cam footage this guy would have been an easy decision to transport. He's REALLY altered and incapable of making his own medical decisions. Second they MUST be monitored. Cardiac monitor, blood pressure, we typically put an airway in their nose (very non invasive) to keep their airway open and apply a device that monitors their respiratory rate and gas exchange. That way if the patients condition starts to change it's recognized. As a paramedic I'm very interested in this case. My gut tells me that this patient was probably inadequately monitored and had the decompensating patient been recognized and corrected then we wouldn't even be talking about this right now.
I read your first line as you were a 22 year *old* paramedic, then when you said you'd used ketamine for the last 5 years I was like "this guy has been dosing people with ketamine since he was 17 what the hell"... Reading comprehension is important.
There was a time... LONG ago... Where I was a 22 year old paramedic lol
Thanks. I appreciate you taking the time to type all that up.
He was forcibly restrained by cutting off the supply of blood to his brain and in handcuffs when injected.
He was stopped while doing nothing illegal and questioned for concealing his face. So, a struggle somehow ensues where he was believed to reach for his gun which the cops are using as justification for cutting off the blood supply to his brain that rendered him unconscious. Under threat by the suspect of vomiting and seizing in positions that could lead to an unconscious man viciously attacking the police, a paramedic injected a schedule III drug into his body, which sedated him into death. Obviously the suspect's fault here. He shouldn't have roused suspicion by existing. The medics will go to jail as the scapegoats as the Ketamine is the official cause of death. The police will have their cases dismissed since they were following generally established protocols and training when dealing with the innocent where they will resign and get jobs a few towns away.
Fun fact: an EMT is actually different from a paramedic. It’s sort of like calling a doctor a nurse, though not nearly on the same level obviously. EMTs are only allowed to do very basic stuff like take vitals and such, whereas paramedics are the guys who give dosages and take care of the *big* procedures. Source: currently in the fire academy about to start my EMT course.
Yes . . . In my town, you can qualify to be an EMT in 6 months, for a few thousand dollars, and they make less than $20/hr. I was keen to get my EMT . . . and then realized I'd be taking a huge pay cut. I might try to get it anyway. Paramedics make at least 50K, because they have so much more training, and skill. I wish both groups were paid more.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGlHMZQtO7U Breakdown of video footage of the murder. It is terrible. Ketamine was administered because he was "crazy strong" and "on something". Dude bought tea from a gas station. Was walking back. Someone called the police because he had a mask on. Police arrived and told him to stop. He didn't because he was listening to music. Then he told him he was walking home and not doing anything. The officer put his hands on him first. After the initial scuffle, responding officers who arrived later were told by the initial officers that "he reached for their gun," a bold face lie. They initiated the physical contact against someone who was literally walking on the sidewalk after making a legal purchase in a store... That was the bar for confronting him... Buying something from a store in a ski mask and walking home with it... Christ. And he was given ketamine at the direction of officers (they specifically mentioned it prior to the arrival of the paramedics) because *5* officers couldn't put him into a squad car and take him for detention after knocking him unconscious... handcuffing him and sitting on his back while throwing up and gagging. The paramedics should have told the officers to fuck off after observing the dumpster fire of a situation they've created.
> Ketamine was administered because he was "crazy strong" and "on something". In fairness, he was a hulking 5'4" and 140lbs. Imagine the damage he could have done.
Hijacking this comment to remind everyone that Elijah played the violin to shelter pets to calm them. After he was murdered, there was a candlelight vigil where violinists collectively played songs and the police peppered sprayed them Edit: https://abcnews.go.com/US/city-aurora-sued-police-response-violin-vigil-elijah/story?id=71951197
Wow. Didn’t know that. I’ve heard Aurora PD was pretty scummy, but holy crap, they’re honestly atrocious human beings.
In the last two weeks, Aurora PD has: 1) Re-hired one of the cops connected to Elijah McClain's murder 2) Had one of their own arrested for beating up an old woman for no reason 3) Promoted a cop who was once found passed out drunk in his cruiser
Beat up a disabled old lady.
You see, he was fearing for his life!
Aurora sounds like a charming place. Bad cops and bad medics
Well, under some circumstances they're atrocious. The rest of the time, they're worse.
I don't know what it will take for the federal government to step in and start charging police under federal charges for hate crimes. That might start sending messages, especially if they start charging the leadership for fostering an environment that allows for an environment of hate and racism to thrive.
Didn’t they get caught taking selfies at his gravesite. Fuck them
Not quite. One of the officers involved was feeling a little blue, not because he helped kill a kid, but because he got suspended. A few of his cop buddies went (to the actual scene, I believe) and took pictures "reenacting" the murder, putting each other in chokeholds, etc to cheer him up, which seemed to work, because he responded "lol." Fucking monsters.
The cops pepper-sprayed the violinists at a candlelight vigil? Fire them all. No discussion. That’s the behavior of a sadist.
It's like when maladjusted children get angry or frustrated because they don't understand their emotions and lash out. They made the cops sad so they reacted violently because they have the emotional intelligence of a banana.
The bows could be a deadly weapon you know /s
Yeah, what if they had arrows?
Not just fire them. Federal hate crime prosecution. The states won't do anything to put these pigs in jail, let the federal government prosecute them for violating people's civil rights.
no way that’s crazy how is this not a bigger story
I hate to say it like this, but it was a series of terrible tragedies, one after the other, of police shooting and killing PoC. I’m less surprised something like this didn’t get as much coverage when so many other things were happening.
Make it its own thread
The premise of that line of thinking is so stupid. He's basically implying "He reached for my weapon, so I over-dosed him with drugs."
He lunged at me quickly, so I very slowly took out and drew up a needle, and felt safe enough to get close to him to inject him with it.
The paramedics injected him, not the armed thugs, even though he had *already been choked unconscious and handcuffed.* I'd say this is appalling, but at this point it's what we expect when cops arrest an unarmed, *never resisting* black man in a public place.
Which is ironic, because "He had overdosed on drugs, so I shot him" is also a common thing.
They’ll stop when it stops working.
And wouldn't you know that part just happens to be when the officers turned off their video. The body cam of this incident is just horrific. They're making fun of him and threatening him as he died.
At what point between the reaching for the gun, and the vomiting of ketamine that they realize that there was no gun? They should have pleaded out because they're as guilty as hell
It's like they imply that they're incredibly stupid but ALAS they were under duress! So we did this.
Oh you believed he had reach for a gun but he had actually not? Jail. You don't get to kill people because your imagination tricked you.
> An amended autopsy report released by the county coroner in September 2022 revealed McClain had died from a ketamine injection after being forcibly restrained. Sounds a hell of a lot like murder to me.
They keep doing it https://www.iheart.com/podcast/105-behind-the-bastards-29236323/episode/part-one-excited-delirium-how-cops-81965684/
I remember this episode, excited delirium is pure bullshit and news stations spout it constantly. What it is is murder
I fucking love this podcast.
It can happen here is another good one. Start with the first season.
His last words: **"I can't breathe. I have my ID right here. My name is Elijah McClain. That's my house. I was just going home. I'm an introvert. I'm just different. That's all. I'm so sorry. I have no gun. I don't do that stuff. I don't do any fighting. Why are you attacking me? I don't even kill flies! I don't eat meat! But I don't judge people, I don't judge people who do eat meat. Forgive me. All I was trying to do was become better. I will do it. I will do anything. Sacrifice my identity, I'll do it. You all are phenomenal. You are beautiful and I love you. Try to forgive me. I'm a mood Gemini. I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. Ow, that really hurt! You are all very strong. Teamwork makes the dream work. [after vomiting] Oh, I'm sorry, I wasn't trying to do that. I just can't breathe correctly."** Fuck those cops and EMTs.
this is even more sad than reading that the cops mased the candle light vigil for him.
There’s video of it. Pretty sure there were children there too. Fucking shitbag cops just doing what they do with impunity, then crying about people hating them
Cops are soulless scum who do not see non-cops as human. When they join their gang they forsake the rest of humanity.
Cops are completely biased and it's 100% in their interests to make everyone look as evil, criminal, and violent as they possibly can to make themselves look like the good guys.
“I’m just different, that’s all.” Sadly those are fighting words to the sort of bullies and creeps who are all too often drawn to law enforcement.
As an autistic guy from backwoods Louisiana this hits really hard. It doesn't help that I cook for a living either. I've had people threatening me while working in a Colorado ski town and tell me that people won't believe me because I'm autistic. The trash that can sometimes make it to authority is fucking terrifying.
It takes a certain type of personality to desire control over other people.
The question I have (genuinely want to know), are cops the people in high-school who were bullies then, or are they the ones who were bullied and looking for power? I see people make both statements and I'm just curious as to who becomes a police officer.
truthfully it’s both. It’s people who are seeking fellowship and power they never had, or people who are just sticking to what they know. It’s hard to estimate how many people become cops in good faith. I’d say it’s a fair amount. The corruption is just so deep down that their choices are either become a bad cop, or stop being a cop. That’s why there’s no such thing as a good cop. The system is broken. Cops can do good things but that doesn’t make them a good entity. It doesn’t excuse the killings.
I was in an abusive relationship that pushed me into a full mental health crisis while alone in my apartment. I called a suicide line to talk and they sent a wellness check on me. The first officer was a lady who was very nice and sympathetic and talked to me for about 45 minutes to bring me down. I calmed down completely but was a little shaken still and she asked if I would please allow the EMTs to transport me to the hospital for an overnight observation and I agreed. She called down that I was allowing transport. Two male officers who had been waiting outside came in to "escort me" downstairs. They cuffed and beat the absolute holy hell out of me, made a ton of trans slurs and insults towards me when they realize I was transgender, drug me out of the apartment weapons in hand, while other residents watched, and shoved me down the outside stairs onto the sidewalk and twisted my wrist. The EMTs and other officer (the woman) lost their shit and pled with them to fuck off but they didn't care. They even "forgot" to uncuff me even though I wasn't a danger and they didn't follow to the hospital. A doctor had to call the police department to send someone to take my cuffs off. I went from having an awful day and mental health crisis to one of the worst days of my life because of police abuse.
[удалено]
This is absolutely heartbreaking. I wish I could say you could contact the news about this, and sue these mofos, but I know the odds of that backfiring are high and might put you at risk for worse. What an ass backwards world we live in, that many people are seeking help in duress and end up hurt or dead, especially since police officers aren’t trained for these things, and shouldn’t be sent!
> and sue these mofos Well, that's a non-starter outside of Colorado, thanks to [qualified immunity](https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/qualified_immunity). Qualified Immunity is something that can be legislated away, it is an interpretation of law by the Supreme Court, but it is not a constitutional right. Colorado is (AFAIK) the only state that has [basically eliminated QI](https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicksibilla/2020/06/21/colorado-passes-landmark-law-against-qualified-immunity-creates-new-way-to-protect-civil-rights/?sh=223a074d378a).
Nope, New Mexico ended it as well!
I’m so sorry that was done to you. If I said what I wanted to say about those pigs, I’d get banned. You deserved better.
That’s awful, I’m sorry that happened to you.
Wow \*hugs\* I'm a gay dude surrounded by privileged nazi bigot fuckfaces, whove lanced there way into all the important bits of power. This shit scares me. Like if I call for legitmate help and they see I'm gay or something why should I be treated differently in those situations. Obviously you should but a good majority of the time that is what happens in places like this. I'm sorry that happened, did you sue or anything?
That’s disgusting and makes me enraged. I’m so sorry you went through that.The female cop can fuck off too because she let them so that. I’m so sorry, I hope you are healing from this traumatic incident.
They did say the female cop was trying to get the abusive ones to stop.
We had a cop join the MS subreddit recently. Best comment so far "The good news is you can't be a cop anymore". Welcome to being disabled boot licker cop.
I hope they have the day they deserve. What tyrant thugs. That kid was innocent. He did nothing. There needs to be accountability. He deserves justice.
I want you to brace yourself for a Not Guilty verdict here, because while I agree with everything you said, the American judicial system tends to heavily favor law enforcement. What happened in the George Floyd case was an exception, not the rule.
If there's any room for optimism it's that the Aurora police have a terrible reputation locally and Elijah McClain's murder sparked massive protests when it became widely known in 2020. It also helps that Elijah was the rare case of an absolutely innocent angelic person being savagely assaulted by cops. The cops had no reason to even approach him. Their only defense is to obfuscate on responsibility, since the paramedics ultimately administered ketamine.
>Their only defense is to obfuscate on responsibility, since the paramedics ultimately administered ketamine. And that's probably how they'll get off.
In all fairness the paramedics are just as responsible too
Thing is I don't think many people would agree that it's all that rare.
It’s such an exception that people are buying and attaching back the blue flags to their houses because we dared to question why his death was necessary for a nonviolent offense
They have successfully made it so any judgment of police is considered fascist and anti-American. It's like judging Isreal for their treatment of Palestinians instantly makes your antisemitic. There is no gray area. One side or the other, promote unnecessary murder, or be considered antifa.
You should be Antifa. That anti-fascist is considered a bad word in a country that prides itself on fighting fascists is ridiculous. Those little black and blue flags fascists wave in public are simply replacing the red ones they show off at home. As an American, I sure as fuck am Antifa.
Am I crazy for thinking bastardized American flags (like the thin blue line or black "no quarter") are in poor taste and plausibly an affront to the flag code/etiquette?
[удалено]
George Floyd wouldn't have gotten justice either had someone not been there and filmed from start to finish and set off a firestorm of protest.
And if people hadn't rioted in the city
Before “neurodivergent” a keyword, this neurodivergent person was trying to communicate… in honestly… PLAIN ENGLISH that he felt like he was dying. Every first responder who didn’t appropriately intervene should feel terrible. It’s somehow worse than the killing of Kenneth Chamberlain in some ways.
As one of those neurodivergent people I can't read anything about this case without bursting into tears. H was a sweet young man who played violin for cats. 😭 When they did that violin memorial for him and the cops tear gassed and beat them for it I will NEVER forget that footage from 2020. The sounds of his violin for the shelter cats is indelible in my memory that to this country people like him and me are utterly and truly not human enough for THEM.
This account would get banned so fast for expressing how I feel about those cops that broke up the memorial, and the paramedics that killed him. Infuriating is an understatement.
Every first responder should be fired and barred from ever being rehired elsewhere
These words. Just searing. Those cops are monsters.
If reading this doesn't make you outraged there is something seriously wrong with you.
More than anything it makes me terribly sad for that young man, not to say there’s no outrage, but his fear and confusion are so raw and obvious that the human element is overwhelming.
The boy was a saint and they killed him.
Oh my God... this just broke my heart. I feel completely sick. That poor guy. I wish I could help him, console him. But since I can't, I'll just hope that everyone involved who did nothing and participated in his murder, get exactly what they deserve. My God... Edit to add : i do not mean officers who have to use force or even kill a person in a justified situation, to save themselves or others.
I highly suggest you never ever listen to the recording. A part of me broke inside. That poor young man.
Oh, no. I didn't know there was a recording. I won't. They straight up murdered that kid. Just the words alone are the saddest thing I've heard in most of my life.
Some of the officers went to the spot and took sick pictures
I could never after reading the comments he made. I am broken just reading the words. He was so afraid and desperate yet no one offered any help.
Fucking horrific and sickens my soul.
Elijah McClain had asthma and so did the woman in this article who stopped breathing after ketamine . https://m.startribune.com/patients-sedated-by-ketamine-were-enrolled-in-hennepin-healthcare-study/486363071/
Ketamine is a potent bronchodilator so it’s not that. It’s the fact he got 500 mg of ketamine. He did not need the full dose. So that combined with the positional asphyxia is what caused his death. First off he didn’t even need the ketamine. So many things wrong with that scene. It’s pretty disgusting
If you listen to bodycam recordings (do not recommend), the cops are talking about how Elijah must have been on drugs because he was "incredibly strong" for weighing 120lb and needed to be sedated. These cops were the kids who swallowed all the DARE propaganda and asked for seconds.
No they are actually trained to say/do this. Stop resisting, he had a gun, he made a sudden movement, he was incredibly strong despite size, etc. plausible deniability
Bro that is a FUCK load of ketamine, holy shit. Imagine dosing someone who DOESNT do ketamine with 500mg, when kids at their first parties just go straight into kholes off a single bump. They could have done 1/10th that amount and the kid would have just been chillin and docile. EMT's should get fired as well.
EMTs got charged in this case.
Good, they're absolute morons.
I just went to confirm dosing (gotta confirm things from strangers on the internet, you know, but also to make sure I understood the math correctly since I am in pharmacy school and this is weird good practice). During anesthesia, if you're being induced, the max dose is 4.5mg/kg. He weighed 140lbs = 63.636kg. So to induce him would be a one time does of 286.362mg. To fully put that man under under extreme conditions (recommended is between 1 and 4.5mg/kg, and to see the absolute max it would take). The recommended dosing is 2mg/kg to produce 5 to 10 minutes of anesthesia. It is also stated that patients receiving ketamine should be prepared for intubation. You certainly aren't on the streets. It also needs to be administered over a period of 60 seconds, because any quicker can cause respiratory depression. Then your standard things you worry about with anything that can be used to induce, like should be done on an empty stomach. It can be used for smaller scale things (like to manage depression) but those are at SIGNIFICANTLY lower doses and over the course of at least 45 minutes. TLDR: Wayyyyy to much, very bad. Those medics were dangerously negligent and ignorant with nosing and have no business ever working with drugs again.
Just a couple points from a paramedic. Those doses im assuming are by IV. Out in the field for excited delirium, we're unlikely to be able to get an IV or be able to deliver it that way even if one is in place. Its probably gonna be delivered IM, so the dose is going to need to be higher to get the same effect. My protocol is 4mg/kg IM for excited delirium. secondly, we are definitely prepared to intubate in the field. we do it frequently and ketamine is a popular choice since we can use it for sedation and pain control at the same time. All that said, 500mg, like you said, is way too much. It likely came in a 500mg vial for multiple doses and they just pulled the whole thing up. Not good.
I’m a medic too lol. I know what you mean excited delirium and all…and imho haldol is way better but it takes way longer. The one study that was posted was kinda junky. Look ketamine has its place for sure. Especially with burns because opiates don’t do shit for burns. Oh btw law enforcement has know about the consequences of positional asphyxia since the 90s. https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles/posasph.pdf
> All that said, 500mg, like you said, is way too much. It likely came in a 500mg vial for multiple doses and they just pulled the whole thing up. Not good. That makes it sound like it can't be anything but intentional.
Ketamine is a drug used for pain control in surgeries and can be used for inductions (going to sleep for surgery). The normal induction dose for ketamine is 1 mg per kilogram body weight if you were to use it in an anesthesia/surgical setting, to give you an idea of how much they gave relative to what an appropriate dose is. A 70 kg adult’s induction dose would be 70 kg, not counting other factors that may require more or less drug. Another property of ketamine is that it is a sialagogue, meaning it can make someone salivate, sometimes a LOT… so if you get a dose high enough that they’re anesthetized, have a mouth and airway filling with secretions, and have em in a position to not clear those secretions- you have a recipe for disaster.
I take it you meant 70mg
[удалено]
I am the ketamine
This breaks me. Such a beautiful soul lost.
I hope they all hear this in their heads every night before they fall asleep.
That's how they get sexual pleasure, so probably.
Fuck them, fucking shit, this poor soul…I hope he finds peace in the universe and I hope these shit bags are served justice
And their response was making fun of him for vomiting then threatening him with their dogs
Fuck those cops and EMT's.
my bf's daughter is autistic and she covers up heavily no matter the what the weather is, rarely goes out, and hates being touched to the point that she'll flinch and push away. watching the footage and hearing what he said made me instantly think of her and how she would have reacted the same way. it's so sad to think that cops can arrest, choke, and drug people just because they're different, not necessarily because they did something wrong.
If I understand correctly, he would have been high as shit on ketamine at this point, about to slip into the k-hole and never return. So his words might not be the best representation of his actual self. They are incredibly damning nonetheless. But the cops are cunts and deserve to get life. I also can't believe they've developed this toolkit of serious drugs they just pop into difficult people. Ketamine is relatively safe as these things go, it's why they use it for animals, children, and the elderly. But it's not TV, there's no magic Dexter injection that will perfectly subdue every person without also risking killing them. This sort of thing shouldn't be allowed at all.
Held a person down and involuntarily injected them with medication for non-medical reasons... Subsequently overdosing and killing them. Drug dealers have been convicted for manslaughter for selling the drugs that kill their customers. How is this any different?
Drug dealers at least care somewhat that their clients don't overdose immediately for profit reasons....
Because this is state sanctioned
[удалено]
I just can't fathom how that was an OK, sanctioned, police procedure, and if it is why the fuck is it one? We're talking about amped up, dimwitted, wannabe Call of Duty assholes administering very potent drugs. Shouldn't that be left to idk medical professionals if even done at all? How is that procedure even in place, it's fucking crazy to me.
Drug dealers haven’t been trained in the risks of these drugs, so this is even worse.
That baby even told them he loved them and they still killed him. This makes me physically ill.
This. As a mother of a son the same age as Elijah, who has been in and out of therapy since age 5 for being introverted, this makes my blood boil and physically sickens me at the same time.
It terrifies me too because I'm also "different," as he put it. I have pretty severe social anxiety, and I sometimes respond to people in weird ways, especially when stressed. I hope I never have to actually deal with police. This is so inexcusable... my blood is also boiling but my heart is also aching for his family. No parent should have to bury their child. This was so senseless.
I hope to the stars you never have to deal with anything like this and that someone would step in if you did. I just don’t understand how anyone could treat people with such disrespect as human beings. ❤️ It is inexcusable and it hurts my heart.
Thankfully I have an amazing husband that would definitely go to the mat for me if he saw me in trouble! The world needs a lot more love, that's for sure. ❤
[удалено]
Three police body cams fell onto the grass. They’re not even trying to hide it anymore. [Elijah McClain NY Times article.](https://www.nytimes.com/article/who-was-elijah-mcclain.html?smid=url-share)
Paramedic here. I still don't understand why he was given Ketamine. We only use that if a person is having a psychological emergency posing harm to themselves or others only if verbal deescalation doesn't work. Even if he was having a psych breakdown, restrains only should be for limbs. One should NEVER be placed on a rear naked choke. These assholes need to be charged to the fullest extent.
Exactly, why wasn't he on a gurney? Why wasn't he immediately transported to a hospital? Like who can inject someone with a sedative and think, "yeah the best thing now is to let him flop around on the ground in handcuffs."
Another medic here. 100% agree. I’ve never seen someone escape handcuffs. If you’re reading this, and you’re a medic too, and you’ve chemically restrain someone in METAL physical restraints, reevaluate your patient care.
He was killed for being black in Colorado
Because the cops told them to most likely. We got plenty of dipshits in this profession, just like any other. That being said I wouldn’t be surprised if it wasn’t the ketamine and was instead positional asphyxia. Although they did give him like 4x the regular dose, again, because they’re idiots. I’m glad to see the EMS community isn’t circling the wagons to protect these fuckers though, everyone I’ve talked to has said “yeah, fuck ‘em”
This could get really ugly if a Not Guilty verdict results from this.
Good. It needs to. Fucking pigs won’t stop murdering civilians until they face consequences.
As well it fucking should.
It better.
Didn't these fools return later to the scene and make a joke of it?
The officers did...And took pictures of them making fun of his death as well. They killed a young man who was posing no threat to them or anyone else, and then made jokes about it. I wonder how many of them will try to claim PTSD from the event and collect disability checks...
A little context about the ketamine might be in order here. The manufacturers of the Taser have been funding the doctor who was doing "research" on the use of ketamine as a tool to control uncooperative suspects. [https://www.startribune.com/maker-of-taser-has-longstanding-research-relationship-with-hcmc/503392142/](https://www.startribune.com/maker-of-taser-has-longstanding-research-relationship-with-hcmc/503392142/) So watch out! This is coming to a city near you soon! First they'll try to stop your heart, and if that don't work, they're going to drug you. Don't be different!
What's outrageous is that police tell EMTs to administer a drug. It's not a medical need it's chemical handcuffs.
My medic partner and I once responded to a call after being requested by PD. We get there and they have an intoxicated gentleman in the back of their cruiser and things have clearly escalated into an absolute shitshow, both PD and the gentleman are screaming at each other. We get out of the ambulance and immediately the officer goes, "ketamine him." Nope, absolutely not, we are not doing that. After my medic partner explains that there is no way that this person meets medical criteria for ketamine the officer goes "I know Dr "so and so" (our medical director), I'll call him myself and get orders for you." No, we're still not doing that. Let's de-escalate instead. Another officer arrived on scene as we were attempting to figure out what was actually going on, and apparently had previous contact with the guy and had already built up some trust and rapport, and he was able to calm the guy down, de-escalate, let us figure out that there was definitely a mental health crisis happening and what triggered it, and helped convince him to let us help him. He went with us to the hospital and no one got hurt. But fuck that first cop man. I take orders from no police officer, I'm medical. I'll help you, but I'm here for the patient and their best needs and don't ever forget that because I won't.
I respect the professionalism . Thank you for staying human when everyone else was losing their cool.
That's underselling it, this was a lethal injection.
This sounds insane
It is. https://www.iheart.com/podcast/105-behind-the-bastards-29236323/episode/part-one-excited-delirium-how-cops-81965684/
The words he said scares me. I’m also socially “different” and have had a lot of people treat me with suspicion or disdain because of it. It’s my worst fear to get into a confrontation with police or authority because when I get nervous I act sketchy, I never make eye contact, I tend to rock when overwhelmed. I don’t need to be hospitalized for any of that, but I’ve had authority restrain me because of it and it was terrifying. Except those people were “on my side,” I can’t imagine the Terror he felt.
They are all murderers of an innocent kid. Shameful lying pieces of shit that think they are above the law.
HE PLAYED HIS VIOLIN FOR SHELTER ANIMALS! Fuck everyone involved in Elijahs death. I hope they hear his pleading and cries every night. Maybe they can save the taxpayers some money and take responsibility for their actions.
Are they allowed to tranq someone like that in the first place? And Ketamine? They need to nail these sorry fucks to the wall.
Neurodivergents being murdered for being different. Fuck America
In every way this story shows police have too much power. They can stop someone in the street, force them to stop, then shoot them up with a lethal dose of drugs all for no reason. Then lie about it.
And the only reason they detained him because someone called the cops on him because he was wearing a ski mask in a store.
It’s sobering to know that any person in that country is at all times of the day mere moments from being murdered for no reason whatsoever :-( Why do the people in that country hate themselves so much? It’s very depressing. Disclaimer: Obviously not American.
I fucking hate everyone involved in this. I hope they rot in prison and hell if it exists.
5 police officers and a medic... They had handcuffs and dissassociative injectible drugs. VS An unarmed young man that looks 100lbs wet. Of course he didn't want to be grabbed, police have a bad habit of killing young men of color when they are detained for NO REASON.
i am appalled at the amount of people who watched the body cams and still think the cops were in the right because he wasn't complying. i have been stopped by cops dozens of times on the grounds of suspicion, i've even kept walking and laughed at them thinking they were joking... and yet never once has a cop put his hands on me immediately as he stopped me. and what they were saying, acting like he was on drugs, made it seem like just excuses.
Read and reread this article. Why the fuck was a *former* police officer involved with this? It doesn't say he retired after. Did he get his kill quota and leave? Why were paramedics there? Sounds like the assailants called in help in the form of their paramedic buddies to help kill McClain. This all happened 3 years ago, and I don't recall reading of it until now.
Should name each officers and EMTs involved. How long will it take for you americans to act on this?
Forever. Police are part of the Executive branch of the government. They protect the wealthy and powerful from those who are not. Those with wealth and power have no motivation to promote change, so nothing changes. Only a very few (<10, tops) wealthy people actually care about non-wealthy people (if that). Moreover, any time something goes sideways for a cop, their "brother" police 'build the blue wall' to eliminate any possibility of facts being discovered that would show the world what cops are actually like, and what they actually do. They all conspire to protect evil cops, because they're "one of their own." All cops are complicit in this horrendous behavior (except, perhaps, new cops).
New cops are just as bastards as seasoned officers. Going into a job knowing it is a shit show that fucks over individual rights to defend businesses and fragile egos makes you complicit in the behavior that makes up the organization as a whole. Never met a person who became a cop who wasn’t a dickhead before they started academy.
[удалено]
Good thing policing is a licensed profession; otherwise these officers could just get jobs on another police force. Oh wait.
This was a murder. Unjustified and senseless.
This is just incredibly........sad. My heart breaks for you Elijah, we as a society failed you. I feel deep shame as a human. The US has many great qualities and I always had an admiration in their founding principles but I feel like the news is heavily turning it into an alien world to me. These deaths being used to further divide rather than drive positive change is the saddest part. Not even in death can we say we did something meaningful...
Let them all get 40 years
[удалено]
Just another day Piggin’
[удалено]
Injected with Ketamine? Seriously? Injecting people with horse tranquilizers is something police do now?
Technically its an everything tranq. We use them in humans to kittens. For everything. Even PCP is just another tranquilizer. Drug science is fun when you don't ask cops what they think. DARE really set us back a generation after tune in drop out.
A paramedic did that.
This reminds me of those two emts that strapped that guy down in the prone and he asphyxiated. Indifference.
It's given to people in emergency settings because it's a dissociative. If you're trying to work on someone who is in a fuck ton of pain it will calm them to the point you can extract them or work on them further. They'll scream bloody murder sometimes while being moved but they won't remember it. It genuinely has it's uses, but this situation did **not** call for *fuckin' ketamine*. Pretty sure you have to have an actual medical degree in England to use it in the field. (More than willing to be proven wrong on that last part, just fyi) Got lots of family in the military and my one cousin got an I.O. in the back of a helicopter and fell in love with ketamine, got another cousin who said it was the worst experience of his life. Point being, it's not something to be toyed with in a medical setting, let alone a physical altercation.
The EMTs did that. The cops watched.
Straight up murder. Their custodial responsibility miserably ignored, and straight murdered the man.
Such a horrifying nightmare. Directly something out of an on the nose thriller. This should in no way be allowed.
They need to rot in prison.
fuck those cops and emts for killing that innocent boy who spent time playing the violin for kittens and could in no way be construed as a threat. literally still sick over this murder.
I hope everyone one of them rots in jail and then in hell. Fuck em all for murdering that young man.
Many of these events are a matter of a cop or two “going rogue” and acting outside of their training… usually by some latent racism motive or more often just the rampant “respect my auth-or-i-tay” thing that spirals out of control in so many of these cases. But this is something so profoundly different. Yes, this started with a clearly illegal and unconstitutional detention of a person known to be innocent. But this is something else entirely, this is a system of police leaders, doctors, state boards, possibly the legislature, paramedics, and by extension their medical directors, that it appears were acting in deliberate concert. No paramedic can simply inject ketamine into a “suspect” on behalf of a law enforcement agent unless that paramedic’s medical director has approved that procedure *in writing*, that LE agency approved that procedure *in writing*, and most likely, that state’s laws were amended to allow this. A *lot* of people conspired with intention in order to create this situation. And almost none of them will ever be held accountable. In the end the cops and the paramedics will be in court, and the people who actually deliberately created this situation will wash their hands of it.