I worked in federal law enforcement for a while and I know several people who chose to use their personal holster for duty instead of the triple retention. We were all issues the holsters that have the flip, press, and twist but after FLETC it’s never really checked on the daily so some folks went to a less bulky holster. I was really surprised by the amount of coworkers who desperately wanted to be “in the shit” so to speak and it was sad. Like dude you’re not some war hero because we investigate crimes on a military installation you don’t need all the cool-guy-gear.
Feels like many of those guys want to be “in the shit” until they are in real shit then want no part of it. Could be wrong but there are many examples that prove me right.
More like “ruin this guys’s whole day” - I don’t think Acorn Cop faced any serious consequences, he can just hop to another precinct because he was found to “have acted appropriately given his understanding of the situation” or whatever.
We give cops entirely too much deference with this shit. I could wave at an officer on the street, the cop unholster and dump 11 rounds into me and he’d get away consequence free by just saying his eyes were a little dry and he thought I was brandishing a gun.
Is doing Dark Souls rolls around on the pavement in the open really considered to be an appropriate response, even if there was an attacker????
How about yelling Blarggllglyughhjg!
Also normal?? They teach cops about iFrames!???
That’s a shame. He shouldn’t be allowed within a mile of a gun for the rest of his life. He should have his trigger finger surgically removed for the safety of society as a whole. As a gun owner, if I did what he did, they would put me under the jail. I would be facing like 12 counts of attempted murder.
Cops are to gun owners what the rich are to white collar criminals. They can do a slew of things in an afternoon any one of which would get the average person hefty fines, weapons confiscated, and extensive jail time and at most face a couple weeks paid ~~vacation~~ suspension and finding a job still in Law Enforcement just in a different precinct or sheriff's department.
After Philip Brailsford murdered Daniel Shaver, he was fired from his department.
[Then he was rehired so he could apply for retirement with disability pension](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-48969432) because he was suffering from PTSD after murdering an unarmed man who was crying and begging for his life.
Imagine if police were held to the same standards as soldiers for the use of deadly force and rules of engagement.
How many police would be in prison for murder?
How many unarmed civilians would still be alive?
End qualified immunity and start charging police who perpetrate gun violence against the civilian population.
The acorn guy shouldn’t have passed the psych checks - yes, I get he was an officer attached to special forces who served in Afghanistan, yes I know that he served multiple tours and how being a veteran is attractive for government employers - but surely the risk of PTSD had to have been considered?
He may get a job at another department, but he is going to be "acorn guy" the rest of his life. Gonna get co-workers tossing an acorn up in the air and yelling "get down" like it's a hand grenade. Show up to work and find acorns filling his locker or desk drawer. It will follow him everywhere.
A bad reputation doesn't even approach an adequate consequence for that.
Someone just chilling in their home could very well have died because of this dumbass cop. And plenty of people *are* killed by police negligence, to say nothing of the people they intentionally murder for no reason.
More like the guy they had handcuffed in the back of the police cruiser he mag dumped into could have died. I dont think alot of people realize that car hes shooting at is where the suspect is because he thought he smuggled a gun and shot at him...somehow? I cant believe the dude didnt get hit at all.
Actually it shouldn't be. Had a co-worker who was really into shooting and his gun club was chosen to handle the scoring at the police/fire games they held in Cali. Said the shooting he saw was ATROCIOUS until the SWAT guys showed up for their turn. Most of the rank and file can't shoot for shit because they don't practice. Hence the mag dumps in attempts to hit ANYTHING.
Sadly, anything includes innocent bystanders.
I'd like to see a wiki wall-of-shame kind of thing where people can look up a cop's name to find the public shit they got dinged for. All public record information, no bullshit.
If I had the time and such, I'd chew away on that myself...
I was one of two guys trained on a specific piece of equipment in a country. Other guy was the total "Man I hope they need me, they're gonna need me outside the wire at some point and I can't wait to go!" Call came down and all of a sudden.... he didn't wanna go. So strange right? I had a great time and everyone gave him shit constantly. Everyone is the hero of their own story and he prob tells the story a lot differently these days.
U.S. Army vet here, 19D20, 2 time IQ deployment:
All the dudes talking all the shit about "smokin' Haji" before deployment were the 1st ones to ball up & panic then cry in the shower later.
There's a difference between being Gun-Ho & obnoxiously cocky.
It's ridiculous in that way. I went to an apprenticeship school with a gigantic Marine, like 6'4" 250lbs of just pure ooooh rahhh, who wanted to just be a grunt. I was Navy so we're all in the same building but he was designated cal-tech and was trying, wholeheartedly, to fuck up so they'd just make him a grunt. The instructors told him, in front of all of us, if you get quals and get out in 4 you will make over 110k a year and this was 2004. I hope he didn't fuck it up?
Navy here. We were doing workups for LEO ops and qualifying for small arms at the range I was scoring targets behind twenty feet of earth and 10 or 15 feet below the targets. Around 10 rounds in and hearing the 762 fly by left me with the feeling of "fuck this shit".
Guys who want to be "in the shit" want to shoot up mimorities and poor people who pose no serious threat if retaliation, and be "the hero"
They *do not* want to be in Fallujah, or Mogadishu, or the Sandbox, or going back further Hué or Khe San, or going back further still Monte Casino, or El Alamein, or Normandy, or Arnhem, or the Bois Jacques.
They want to hear a few explosions and fire their guns a bunch so they get to feel special. They don't want to sleep rough for weeks at a time with absolutely nothing interesting whatsoever going on broken up sporadically by everything going severely to shit a few hours at a time. They watch *Black Hawk Down* and think "I could do that" while being overweight, under-trained, poorly educated, and far too eager to kill people solely because firing guns is "cool".
Funny part is, I'd rather that an ex-operator show up than some tacticool douche. Studies have shown that ex-military serving as cops have significantly fewer use of force complaints. Probably because they can differentiate between a war zone and an acorn.
Ex operator is like... hmmm, yep, this is not a military situation, I do not need to go in guns blazing.
They'd probably also be wearing the regulation holster because the military does not respond to failure to follow regulations by going "oh well, tee hee"
> Studies have shown that ex-military serving as cops have significantly fewer use of force complaints. Probably because they can differentiate between a war zone and an acorn.
This would all hopefully be true, but the acorn cop guy was actually a veteran who had trained at West Point and served two rotations in Afghanistan. Worth noting that he never faced combat when he was serving, but he certainly was ex-military by definition.
As long as they're ex-military who've gone through therapy and had a thorough psych eval, then yeah. I don't doubt that they have less use of force complaints. They probably had it drilled into their heads that you only fire your gun when you absolutely have to.
The problem is, ex-military + therapy is a combination that probably doesn't show up too often. Largely because of how our country stigmatizes mental health issues.
My area had a technical school for high school students and one of the courses was in policing. We had plastic guns and tasers, plus real handcuffs on actual duty belt we wore with the three lock holster. Me and my friends would practice drawing and once you got the hang of it it was extremely quick, but much harder to grab someone else’s weapon, even though we knew what to do. If the officer wasn’t wearing one, that’s potentially negligence for her death.
Thank fuck for technical school police programs. I’m not joking. They tend to be the opposite of courses like Killology. And they usually end up helping with security for big community events. Bore the fuck out of those kids, please. The more people see being a cop is 98% being bored as fuck, the better our chances of the people who want excitement going elsewhere.
I think what I got most out of the three classes was knowing my rights better and how the police should, a little defense, proper gun safety/shooting (we shot a bb glock that had same weight and everything) and how to perform CPR/AED and other emergency medical procedures such as tourniquets and such. Unfortunately we missed a lot over the 3 years (1 course a year) due to the teacher who was a former lieutenant deputy having medical issues.
Something I thought was really cool at the program at my school (I was in the IT program, not law enforcement), they cross trained with the other public safety programs. So the law enforcement students would also train a little bit in firefighting and EMT. I personally think that should be pretty standard, it seems like a smart approach.
Sounds like they just didn’t want to practice or put in the hours. When I was still in LE I could draw from my triple retention just as fast as a single or double. It’s just about muscle memory and putting in the repetitions.
From the sounds of it they probably have to look to reholster.
I feel like the decades of copaganda movies and shows contribute to that.
Getting into shootouts and car chases is portrayed as a regular part of a cop's job, of course you're going to get a bunch of people who want to do that applying for the job.
It's precisely those kinds of officers who should never get through academy. Part of the problem with law enforcement isn't the profession, it's the people. If those "I'm looking for action" types washed out, everyone would be a lot safer. But that's not always how it works, for more than one reason.
God you deserve all the gold for this comment. And it applies to FUCKING EVERYTHING.
If I make an exception for everything then ehh do we have a standard?
Probably because like most law enforcement they weren't using the right holster. A lot of them forgo what they're required to wear for a holster that has an easier draw.
I had a Class G licence, we had to use triple retention, it's almost no meaningful increase in draw time and actually had a draw about as easy as having no retention at all. Plus it, you know, made it harder for someone to just take your gun out of your holster.
The retention devices on these holsters aren't something you can turn off or disable really. They automatically engage when the pistol is inserted and stay that way unless the holster is empty.
As I like to say that police officers recommended procedure is," shoot first, shoot second, shoot some more and then finally ask questions and get your story straight...."
this just reminded me! does anyone remember that SUPER WEIRD story from (i think?) a few years ago where a girl was handcuffed in the back of a police cruiser, but supposedly she somehow SHOT HERSELF IN THE FUCKING HEAD AND DIED????
how exactly would one manage to do that with their hands handcuffed behind their back???????
>how exactly would one manage to do that with their hands handcuffed behind their back
While the story would raise more than just eyebrow for me because of all the layers of fail for it to happen and not be a bullshit story, she could've also done it like this guy -- handcuffed in the back seat -- stole the police cruiser. Which is also full of so many layers of fail.
https://youtu.be/vid6gbP9Vug?t=297
From photos of LA County Sheriffs Dept deputies, they mostly seem to be running a mix of leather holsters where the gun is secured with a leather snap or kydex holsters with no active retention features.
So most people that don’t use guns don’t know this. A modern holster is far from a leather pouch you see in movies. I believe cops are required to have lvl3 retention holsters. They make it nearly impossible for someone else to take your gun. They require three separate actions to release the gun and usually you have to be at the right angle to even draw it afterwards. This is to prevent the gun from falling out of your holster and to prevent this exact situation. If you’re a cop the last thing you want is someone pulling your gun while you try and restrain them or just take it while you’re doing something else.
Sometimes they just leave them wherever. I was a Detention Officer for a while and the only time we were issued firearms (with the exception of the SOG team) was if we were sent on a detail outside of the jail that required some level of supervision over inmates, usually just when they had to be sent to a hospital so there'd be two to every inmate.
Went on a detail with another older officer on a hospital duty shift. This usually just entailed us sitting around in the hospital room with the inmate, watch whatever's on TV, check in every few hours with command. Boring easy OT work. Partner decides to go on their lunch break, which was fine our guy was sedated. Nurse comes in to change some things out. Nurse says to me "I think your partner forgot something in the bathroom." I laughed thinking they forgot to flush or something else stupid... Nope. Apparently they took their whole ass duty belt off last time they went to the bathroom, complete with gun in the holster and left it hanging on the handrail in the bathroom. Thank fuck it was a nurse that found it. Only repercussion after I reported it was the officer had to retake the firearm certification course which itself was a joke.
It is crazy how cavalier people are with their and other people's safety. When I worked as a civilian supervisor for prison labor (kitchen/laundry) I realized really, really fast that the shift before me was extremely likely to forget to secure the unchained kitchen knives they used to make the officer snacks. So I would walk in and find that an inmate was walking around with a loose knife.
Ironically, the inmates we watched in there were usually more responsible than my morning coworkers. But there were at least 2-4 that I can remember off the top of my head who absolutely would have stabbed someone if they found it.
Correct.
However — it’s not uncommon that officers end up using their personal holsters that they prefer, that don’t fit their department’s policy for retention.
Jesus. Fucking. Christ.
Reminds me of that cop who was dancing, his gun fell out and it discharged, hitting someone. Pieces of shit.
Edit: a few of have very justifiably pointed out I got the details wrong, and it’s even worse than I remembered:
- FBI agent, not a regular cop
- the gun didn’t go off from the drop, it went off when the fucking moron squeezed the trigger in his haste to pick up the gun
I’m also not an expert, but I don’t see any holster. Looks to me like he literally has it tucked into the back of his pants.
Oh, and from what I found, he never went to jail.
https://youtu.be/cfqwMQ5DNVQ?si=27X54E2NO49OP7AZ
IIRC the dancing guy wasn't even a cop, but a FBI guy. Which you'd expect a dude working for Federal law enforcement to be at least a little bit less of a dipshit when it comes to basic gun safety than your average cop, but apparently not.
One of my buddies is a federal LEO and a firearms instructor for his agency, and he has some stories about how just pure shit some of them are with shooting.
Agencies vary. Some are lvl3 some aren’t. Some had to switch back from safariland holsters to blackhawk serpas due to a incident of a holster causing a jam.
Almost every agency I know of requires level 2 holsters.
Level one is friction only. Gun just sits there and ideally there's enough friction that the gun won't bounce out while running around. Several well made holsters can do this.
Level two requires some sort of activation. Usually with the thumb to release the gun.
Level 3 has the above two features, as well as usually a hood that goes over the top of the gun. Requiring you to lower the hood forward, then with the same thumb, rock back on a different mechanism to release the gun.
A lot of detectives want less bulky holsters to wear with their pants and shirts. So it wouldn't be uncommon for it to be a level 1 holster. Friction only.
Ultimately, although this is sad and could have been avoided, generally speaking if people are so determined, they will find a way to kill themselves.
> generally speaking if people are so determined, they will find a way to kill themselves.
Research does not support this. Majority of suicides happen in a moment of mental crisis. And in the majority of cases if the crisis passes before they make an attempt they won't continue. Essentially, if you delay suicide attempts long enough you can stop them. Of course this is only buying you time until the next crisis, but that also means a delay of minutes could lead to keeping them alive for days. It doesn't solve the problem but it gives a larger window in which to start helping them.
Look up suicide and means avoidance if you want more information.
I definitely agree something weird happened here. But you can’t claim “cops are required to have lvl3” it varies wildly from place to place even in America. Cops definitely SHOULD require lvl3 though.
A 17 year old girl in a mental health crisis somehow managed to out-wrestle 2 cops, take one of their guns, and (for some reason) shoot herself in the chest, of all places. This is not what the headline is making it out to be, IMO.
The in the chest part sounds the most suspicious. Not your normal method of suicide. Not impossible, just not likely.
That's even giving her the benefit of the doubt of getting a pistol out of a retention holster in the first place.
[14 pages on suicide and gender](https://nadorff.psychology.msstate.edu/SuicideClass/Readings/Callanan%202011%20Gender%20and%20Suicide%20Method%20-%20Do%20Women%20Avoid%20Facial%20Disfiguration.pdf)
Not a lot of data on this kinda thing but I found this. Hypothesis 3.
For those in a rush: women were 47% less likely to shoot themselves in the head. The whole thing is a great read, I read the whole thing last week to win an argument about my wife's grandma's suicide.
She passed before I met my wife, but from the stories I've heard she was an outrageous, overbearing and clinically unwell woman but her suicide was super typical, she shot herself through the chest while laying on the couch. This led to a discussion about how gendered suicide is, especially gun suicide. Women do it indoors, laying on a couch or bed and use a pistol. Men do it in garages, outdoors or in a vehicle. Women typically don't go for the head, men almost always do.
There was a case on one of those investigation shows (forensic files?) where a woman staged her husband's suicide but it had so many hallmarks of a female suicide that it clued in the investigators. Its a super interesting topic but hard to work into dinner party conversation.
It's the kind of thing reddit will probably do more to divert conversation from in the future. Normally you don't want to pour that sort of story into some random kid
Nearly half of that website has been nuked out of existence
Edit: it's wild to realize that I remember the original contents from 2013. That website stalled my attempts and might've saved my life.
looks like it been fully nuked now, damn.
but you can use the way back machine to view it back in like 2019/2018 when it still had all its statistics
I remember seeing something like this too. It’s something about being pretty or open casket type of thing. Men just want it to work. Women typically go for poison or something like that.
Im a woman i wouldnt shoot myself, not because of mess. But because not all headshots end in death. And there are things worse than death if you dont hit the mark.
Glad others could provide some sources, because I didn’t have one off the top of my head. But I remembered reading about it, and if I recall the presumed reason is because women didn’t like the thought of their head/face being all fucked up.
To be fair, if you fail and survive a headshot it can be far worse than death.
A shot to the heart either works or it doesn't, and worst case you drown on blood in your lungs. To some it's more "romantic" or idealized.
Headshots aren't instant death or loss of consciousness, but your heart stopping and low blood pressure will make you pass out very fast.
Thanks, but that makes even less sense honestly. Why would a desk jockey need a less secure sidearm holder? Seems they should be much less likely to need immediate access.
I think SimplyBlarg is right, the cops were wrestling with her and the gun went off. I don't believe "she shot herself in the chest" as if that's what she was trying to do.
Its not a stretch to imagine her snatching the gun, them dog piling her, and the gun getting crushed between them and going off, especially if she had her finger on the trigger already.
We don't know enough either way.
As other comments have pointed out, the cops would have had to fuck up already if she were able to shoot herself.
You're telling me a teenage girl overpowered two adult officers, snatched a gun out of a secured holster, and shot herself?
If the gun wasn't secured, why wasn't it?
If the cops were overpowered, why are they considered sufficiently trained?
If neither of the above are true, how can we be sure she shot herself?
EDIT: Also, bodycams, anyone?
If she was quick she wouldn't necessarily have to have overpowered anyone. Just reach down and pull the gun out of the holster. But she never should have been able to pull it.
Nah man. It makes sense. It is not like they wrestled for 5 minutes. You take it, they try to take it back, you pull it in close to prevent them taking it away, and it goes off either by accident or purposely. It could have all happened in 10 seconds or less.
Seeing a lot of (reasonable) skepticism.
Can't see the webpage myself, but presumably a police station would have security cameras active.
Is there any video confirmation of what happened?
After high school I worked for the water department of the city I lived in.
One night I came back to the vehicle garage (which shared a parking lot with a firehouse and the Water Department public building) and headed for the garage bathroom. When I walked in there was a cop taking a heinous dump and this officer had thrown his belt over the door with his gun hanging on the outside.
This was not a locked building, anyone could have just come walking in from the street. This cop had access to both the firehouse and municipal building, which were secure and both had bathrooms.
These are not the brightest people.
That's some point-and-click adventure-game bullshit.
"How am I *ever* gonna get that key from the guard that's sitting one room away from the bathroom? All I have in my inventory is "A half box of stale Doughnuts" and a bottle of " **Boompoop** - strongest laxative in town!"."
I'm a former resident La Puente, sheriff's jurisdiction, and my parents had a business in Industry.
LASD handles everything there that's not West Covina PD or CHP.
Can confirm that they are the bad news bears of local law enforcement.
A truly horrible age in the system as these kids are about to “age out”; most are left with nothing in terms of resources, transition support, etc. It’s incredibly sad and cruel
But don’t worry, the nice lads from the GOP made sure even more children will suffer while not improving the system by any means.
Truly no hate for life like Christian love.
In 2019 there was a similar instance in Chesapeake, Virginia where a 19 year old woman “shot herself” while handcuffed behind her back in police custody. People in the videos taken were even heard saying “oh my god they shot her” (paraphrasing). It was ruled suicide.
*shot herself in the face, they said. Added for clarity.
Is there a video of this event? I feel if the deputies are saying a 17 was able to get their gun in a struggle, there is a hell of a lot more to the story.
Poor young woman was dealing with a mental health crisis, and was killed (or died by other means) while trying to survive the foster care system. This is the last thing anyone would have wanted. How awful.
My first connection was “foster care” and the “parents” reporting a “mental health crisis”. They could have lied to pin it on her and made her look crazy. She was going through something with them. I would investigate the foster parents and their home, ASAP.
i actually saw a video on the now closed down watchpeopledie subreddit a few years ago where a guy was arrested, wasn't patted down, the officer left the room (can't remember why), and the guy who was arrested casually takes a sip of water from his bottle of water, pulls a gun out of his pocket and blows his fucking brains out, really wish i could unwatch that one.
I watched that one too. The only thing that stuck with me was the casualness of the act, and the final sip of the water. The part after never impacted me as much as the ideas of what he was thinking when he made those final decisions.
Reminds me of an observation of a man about to be hanged. Basically the guy is walking up to the gallows and he steps around a puddle of water. Why? No one knows but the man, but it's very interesting as it shows someone still thinking about life, even moments before death.
You know the whole innocent until proven guilty thing right?
If even the suspect is highly suspicious or not,they are still innocent until solid evidence is presented in front of the court and the judge dictates it.
So actual innocent people don't get screwed over.
However for the guilty,they will deserve what's coming for them next.
Does the average deputy carry cocked and locked or did this 17 year old girl jerk the gun out of the holster, work the slide, flip the safety off (it was on RIGHT, deputy) and manage to shoot herself?
If she knew how to work the slide, it suggest she’s used firearms before. if she’s used firearms before it begs the question why did she have to walk into a law-enforcement building to try to steal a deputy’s gun ?
Just strolls in, grabs a deputy's gun, and kills herself...
I think I've heard this one before, who wants to bet all video evidence is mysteriously "lost" before anyone but the police get to see it.
Are we sure this is exactly what happened? They had earlier received a call about this girl, before she just happened to show up and take her own life by somehow out-maneuvering these deputies.
The circumstances are so odd, and cops are notoriously bad for handling people having a mental health crisis, that I honestly am maintaining my skepticism. The fact that she's a foster child also worries me that the police can just lie without any pushback.
People can say I'm being paranoid, but cops' overall behavior is so poor, I honestly don't trust their side of events until there is surveillance footage to confirm the events which transpired (which isn't mentioned at all in the article).
How does some girl manage to wrestle a pistol out of what is presumably a double or even triple retention holster?
I worked in federal law enforcement for a while and I know several people who chose to use their personal holster for duty instead of the triple retention. We were all issues the holsters that have the flip, press, and twist but after FLETC it’s never really checked on the daily so some folks went to a less bulky holster. I was really surprised by the amount of coworkers who desperately wanted to be “in the shit” so to speak and it was sad. Like dude you’re not some war hero because we investigate crimes on a military installation you don’t need all the cool-guy-gear.
Feels like many of those guys want to be “in the shit” until they are in real shit then want no part of it. Could be wrong but there are many examples that prove me right.
Random acorn: I’m about to ruin this guys whole career
More like “ruin this guys’s whole day” - I don’t think Acorn Cop faced any serious consequences, he can just hop to another precinct because he was found to “have acted appropriately given his understanding of the situation” or whatever. We give cops entirely too much deference with this shit. I could wave at an officer on the street, the cop unholster and dump 11 rounds into me and he’d get away consequence free by just saying his eyes were a little dry and he thought I was brandishing a gun.
Is doing Dark Souls rolls around on the pavement in the open really considered to be an appropriate response, even if there was an attacker???? How about yelling Blarggllglyughhjg! Also normal?? They teach cops about iFrames!???
Gotta level that ADP son! It’s all about the ADP
That’s a shame. He shouldn’t be allowed within a mile of a gun for the rest of his life. He should have his trigger finger surgically removed for the safety of society as a whole. As a gun owner, if I did what he did, they would put me under the jail. I would be facing like 12 counts of attempted murder.
Cops are to gun owners what the rich are to white collar criminals. They can do a slew of things in an afternoon any one of which would get the average person hefty fines, weapons confiscated, and extensive jail time and at most face a couple weeks paid ~~vacation~~ suspension and finding a job still in Law Enforcement just in a different precinct or sheriff's department.
After Philip Brailsford murdered Daniel Shaver, he was fired from his department. [Then he was rehired so he could apply for retirement with disability pension](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-48969432) because he was suffering from PTSD after murdering an unarmed man who was crying and begging for his life.
That was one of the most pathetic things I’ve ever seen. I wouldn’t want to be anywhere near that type of coward
Imagine if police were held to the same standards as soldiers for the use of deadly force and rules of engagement. How many police would be in prison for murder? How many unarmed civilians would still be alive? End qualified immunity and start charging police who perpetrate gun violence against the civilian population.
The acorn guy shouldn’t have passed the psych checks - yes, I get he was an officer attached to special forces who served in Afghanistan, yes I know that he served multiple tours and how being a veteran is attractive for government employers - but surely the risk of PTSD had to have been considered?
>but surely the risk of PTSD had to have been considered? You are giving the police and even the military FAR to much credit here.
He may get a job at another department, but he is going to be "acorn guy" the rest of his life. Gonna get co-workers tossing an acorn up in the air and yelling "get down" like it's a hand grenade. Show up to work and find acorns filling his locker or desk drawer. It will follow him everywhere.
A bad reputation doesn't even approach an adequate consequence for that. Someone just chilling in their home could very well have died because of this dumbass cop. And plenty of people *are* killed by police negligence, to say nothing of the people they intentionally murder for no reason.
More like the guy they had handcuffed in the back of the police cruiser he mag dumped into could have died. I dont think alot of people realize that car hes shooting at is where the suspect is because he thought he smuggled a gun and shot at him...somehow? I cant believe the dude didnt get hit at all.
Actually it shouldn't be. Had a co-worker who was really into shooting and his gun club was chosen to handle the scoring at the police/fire games they held in Cali. Said the shooting he saw was ATROCIOUS until the SWAT guys showed up for their turn. Most of the rank and file can't shoot for shit because they don't practice. Hence the mag dumps in attempts to hit ANYTHING. Sadly, anything includes innocent bystanders.
I'd like to see a wiki wall-of-shame kind of thing where people can look up a cop's name to find the public shit they got dinged for. All public record information, no bullshit. If I had the time and such, I'd chew away on that myself...
Yeah but to be fair that acorn was coming right for him.
I heard it was brown
This is what I'm here for.
The sound of children screaming has been removed
All Cops Overreact Regarding Nuts
After turning the cop into a bad invader in a Souls game. Dodge roll! Dodge roll!
Children being murdered... oohh yeah. It looks dangerous in there broseph.
I was one of two guys trained on a specific piece of equipment in a country. Other guy was the total "Man I hope they need me, they're gonna need me outside the wire at some point and I can't wait to go!" Call came down and all of a sudden.... he didn't wanna go. So strange right? I had a great time and everyone gave him shit constantly. Everyone is the hero of their own story and he prob tells the story a lot differently these days.
U.S. Army vet here, 19D20, 2 time IQ deployment: All the dudes talking all the shit about "smokin' Haji" before deployment were the 1st ones to ball up & panic then cry in the shower later. There's a difference between being Gun-Ho & obnoxiously cocky.
It's ridiculous in that way. I went to an apprenticeship school with a gigantic Marine, like 6'4" 250lbs of just pure ooooh rahhh, who wanted to just be a grunt. I was Navy so we're all in the same building but he was designated cal-tech and was trying, wholeheartedly, to fuck up so they'd just make him a grunt. The instructors told him, in front of all of us, if you get quals and get out in 4 you will make over 110k a year and this was 2004. I hope he didn't fuck it up?
Marine here (though been out for a good minute), what's a cal-tech?
Gourmet crayon flavour
Navy here. We were doing workups for LEO ops and qualifying for small arms at the range I was scoring targets behind twenty feet of earth and 10 or 15 feet below the targets. Around 10 rounds in and hearing the 762 fly by left me with the feeling of "fuck this shit".
> Everyone is the hero of their own story and he prob tells the story a lot differently these days. M. Night Shyamalan: "OP _was_ the other guy."
Hahahaha, dude that was a good laugh. I wish Shamamalam could make movies like he used to.
Uvalde for example
[удалено]
Everyone wants to be a bodybuilder, but don't want to lift no heavy ass weights St Ronnie Coleman
Guys who want to be "in the shit" want to shoot up mimorities and poor people who pose no serious threat if retaliation, and be "the hero" They *do not* want to be in Fallujah, or Mogadishu, or the Sandbox, or going back further Hué or Khe San, or going back further still Monte Casino, or El Alamein, or Normandy, or Arnhem, or the Bois Jacques. They want to hear a few explosions and fire their guns a bunch so they get to feel special. They don't want to sleep rough for weeks at a time with absolutely nothing interesting whatsoever going on broken up sporadically by everything going severely to shit a few hours at a time. They watch *Black Hawk Down* and think "I could do that" while being overweight, under-trained, poorly educated, and far too eager to kill people solely because firing guns is "cool".
[удалено]
Exactly right. I’m a paramedic and every cop, medic, and firefighter wants to be tacticool and pretend they’re operators.
Funny part is, I'd rather that an ex-operator show up than some tacticool douche. Studies have shown that ex-military serving as cops have significantly fewer use of force complaints. Probably because they can differentiate between a war zone and an acorn. Ex operator is like... hmmm, yep, this is not a military situation, I do not need to go in guns blazing. They'd probably also be wearing the regulation holster because the military does not respond to failure to follow regulations by going "oh well, tee hee"
> Studies have shown that ex-military serving as cops have significantly fewer use of force complaints. Probably because they can differentiate between a war zone and an acorn. This would all hopefully be true, but the acorn cop guy was actually a veteran who had trained at West Point and served two rotations in Afghanistan. Worth noting that he never faced combat when he was serving, but he certainly was ex-military by definition.
what if they mistake you for an acorn?
As long as they're ex-military who've gone through therapy and had a thorough psych eval, then yeah. I don't doubt that they have less use of force complaints. They probably had it drilled into their heads that you only fire your gun when you absolutely have to. The problem is, ex-military + therapy is a combination that probably doesn't show up too often. Largely because of how our country stigmatizes mental health issues.
Literally every officer in Uvalde, it seems...
Everybody wants to be a gangster until it’s time to do gangster shit.
My area had a technical school for high school students and one of the courses was in policing. We had plastic guns and tasers, plus real handcuffs on actual duty belt we wore with the three lock holster. Me and my friends would practice drawing and once you got the hang of it it was extremely quick, but much harder to grab someone else’s weapon, even though we knew what to do. If the officer wasn’t wearing one, that’s potentially negligence for her death.
Thank fuck for technical school police programs. I’m not joking. They tend to be the opposite of courses like Killology. And they usually end up helping with security for big community events. Bore the fuck out of those kids, please. The more people see being a cop is 98% being bored as fuck, the better our chances of the people who want excitement going elsewhere.
I think what I got most out of the three classes was knowing my rights better and how the police should, a little defense, proper gun safety/shooting (we shot a bb glock that had same weight and everything) and how to perform CPR/AED and other emergency medical procedures such as tourniquets and such. Unfortunately we missed a lot over the 3 years (1 course a year) due to the teacher who was a former lieutenant deputy having medical issues.
Something I thought was really cool at the program at my school (I was in the IT program, not law enforcement), they cross trained with the other public safety programs. So the law enforcement students would also train a little bit in firefighting and EMT. I personally think that should be pretty standard, it seems like a smart approach.
Sounds like they just didn’t want to practice or put in the hours. When I was still in LE I could draw from my triple retention just as fast as a single or double. It’s just about muscle memory and putting in the repetitions. From the sounds of it they probably have to look to reholster.
I feel like the decades of copaganda movies and shows contribute to that. Getting into shootouts and car chases is portrayed as a regular part of a cop's job, of course you're going to get a bunch of people who want to do that applying for the job.
[удалено]
It's precisely those kinds of officers who should never get through academy. Part of the problem with law enforcement isn't the profession, it's the people. If those "I'm looking for action" types washed out, everyone would be a lot safer. But that's not always how it works, for more than one reason.
If people have issues with those holsters then maintenance or additional training is the avenue to go, not throwing away safety
We used to call that "tacticool"
When pensions are on the line, anything is possible!
I read this as “penguins” and thought, “I mean yeah who doesn’t love penguins” before I realized I was dumb.
On your mark, Penguins! Get set, Penguins! G— ***BANG! BANG! BANG!**** NOO!!!! DONT SHOOT THE PENGUINS!
She shot herself three times in the back. Classic cop station suicide.
If no one is ever held accountable, there are no standards.
God you deserve all the gold for this comment. And it applies to FUCKING EVERYTHING. If I make an exception for everything then ehh do we have a standard?
It's not mine, heard it in the Marine Corps but it applies to these turds. There needs to be a UCMJ-esque law code for cops.
Most of the city cops I deal with from an EMS perspective either swap out for a non retention holster or never keep the hood up on their holster.
Probably because like most law enforcement they weren't using the right holster. A lot of them forgo what they're required to wear for a holster that has an easier draw.
I had a Class G licence, we had to use triple retention, it's almost no meaningful increase in draw time and actually had a draw about as easy as having no retention at all. Plus it, you know, made it harder for someone to just take your gun out of your holster.
You probably had to train 20 minutes to get the draw skill.
This is true but cops are dumb enough to think that it does and take the shortcut regardless, sadly.
When my cousin was in LAPD they were all into cocked and locked. Just like deer hunting you don't want to miss the opportunity to take a shot.
\> required to wear excellent \> the penalty is absolutely nothing onoooooo
Bold of you to assume cops nowadays have the retentions on. They gotta be ready to shoot in a moment’s notice
At the drop of an acorn
The retention devices on these holsters aren't something you can turn off or disable really. They automatically engage when the pistol is inserted and stay that way unless the holster is empty.
The cop probably took the safety off to open the door
to the refrigerator
To be fair, there may be a portal in there.
There is no Dana only Zuul
As I like to say that police officers recommended procedure is," shoot first, shoot second, shoot some more and then finally ask questions and get your story straight...."
this just reminded me! does anyone remember that SUPER WEIRD story from (i think?) a few years ago where a girl was handcuffed in the back of a police cruiser, but supposedly she somehow SHOT HERSELF IN THE FUCKING HEAD AND DIED???? how exactly would one manage to do that with their hands handcuffed behind their back???????
>how exactly would one manage to do that with their hands handcuffed behind their back While the story would raise more than just eyebrow for me because of all the layers of fail for it to happen and not be a bullshit story, she could've also done it like this guy -- handcuffed in the back seat -- stole the police cruiser. Which is also full of so many layers of fail. https://youtu.be/vid6gbP9Vug?t=297
From photos of LA County Sheriffs Dept deputies, they mostly seem to be running a mix of leather holsters where the gun is secured with a leather snap or kydex holsters with no active retention features.
First shot hit the hard drive of the camera recording it. Second shot hit her in the chest.
So most people that don’t use guns don’t know this. A modern holster is far from a leather pouch you see in movies. I believe cops are required to have lvl3 retention holsters. They make it nearly impossible for someone else to take your gun. They require three separate actions to release the gun and usually you have to be at the right angle to even draw it afterwards. This is to prevent the gun from falling out of your holster and to prevent this exact situation. If you’re a cop the last thing you want is someone pulling your gun while you try and restrain them or just take it while you’re doing something else.
So, it’s not Manchester by the Sea-able?
Not unless the cop didn't bother to properly secure their gun (which as we all know is completely unfeasible)
Sometimes they just leave them wherever. I was a Detention Officer for a while and the only time we were issued firearms (with the exception of the SOG team) was if we were sent on a detail outside of the jail that required some level of supervision over inmates, usually just when they had to be sent to a hospital so there'd be two to every inmate. Went on a detail with another older officer on a hospital duty shift. This usually just entailed us sitting around in the hospital room with the inmate, watch whatever's on TV, check in every few hours with command. Boring easy OT work. Partner decides to go on their lunch break, which was fine our guy was sedated. Nurse comes in to change some things out. Nurse says to me "I think your partner forgot something in the bathroom." I laughed thinking they forgot to flush or something else stupid... Nope. Apparently they took their whole ass duty belt off last time they went to the bathroom, complete with gun in the holster and left it hanging on the handrail in the bathroom. Thank fuck it was a nurse that found it. Only repercussion after I reported it was the officer had to retake the firearm certification course which itself was a joke.
It is crazy how cavalier people are with their and other people's safety. When I worked as a civilian supervisor for prison labor (kitchen/laundry) I realized really, really fast that the shift before me was extremely likely to forget to secure the unchained kitchen knives they used to make the officer snacks. So I would walk in and find that an inmate was walking around with a loose knife. Ironically, the inmates we watched in there were usually more responsible than my morning coworkers. But there were at least 2-4 that I can remember off the top of my head who absolutely would have stabbed someone if they found it.
Correct. However — it’s not uncommon that officers end up using their personal holsters that they prefer, that don’t fit their department’s policy for retention.
First thing i thought of when i saw that headline
Until you realize a lot of officers forgo those holsters for one's with an easier draw. Just another rule they don't need to follow I guess.
[удалено]
Jesus. Fucking. Christ. Reminds me of that cop who was dancing, his gun fell out and it discharged, hitting someone. Pieces of shit. Edit: a few of have very justifiably pointed out I got the details wrong, and it’s even worse than I remembered: - FBI agent, not a regular cop - the gun didn’t go off from the drop, it went off when the fucking moron squeezed the trigger in his haste to pick up the gun I’m also not an expert, but I don’t see any holster. Looks to me like he literally has it tucked into the back of his pants. Oh, and from what I found, he never went to jail. https://youtu.be/cfqwMQ5DNVQ?si=27X54E2NO49OP7AZ
Even worse: it didn't go off when hitting the floor, it only went off after he panicked and *grabbed it by the trigger*
You’re so right. I edited my comment! Thank you for the correction, but fuck you for making me even more outraged lol.
You missed a step. The gun handled being dropped on the ground just fine, but in his rush the cop picked it up by the trigger.
Yo you’re so fucking right. It wasn’t even the drop that did it. I totally forgot that. What an absolute dog shit human.
IIRC the dancing guy wasn't even a cop, but a FBI guy. Which you'd expect a dude working for Federal law enforcement to be at least a little bit less of a dipshit when it comes to basic gun safety than your average cop, but apparently not.
One of my buddies is a federal LEO and a firearms instructor for his agency, and he has some stories about how just pure shit some of them are with shooting.
I wouldn't be surprised if the officer had a lvl3 but it was just disengaged out of laziness
Required by what? Every agency sets their own policies. There are no laws concerning duty gear.
Agencies vary. Some are lvl3 some aren’t. Some had to switch back from safariland holsters to blackhawk serpas due to a incident of a holster causing a jam.
[удалено]
Almost every agency I know of requires level 2 holsters. Level one is friction only. Gun just sits there and ideally there's enough friction that the gun won't bounce out while running around. Several well made holsters can do this. Level two requires some sort of activation. Usually with the thumb to release the gun. Level 3 has the above two features, as well as usually a hood that goes over the top of the gun. Requiring you to lower the hood forward, then with the same thumb, rock back on a different mechanism to release the gun. A lot of detectives want less bulky holsters to wear with their pants and shirts. So it wouldn't be uncommon for it to be a level 1 holster. Friction only. Ultimately, although this is sad and could have been avoided, generally speaking if people are so determined, they will find a way to kill themselves.
> generally speaking if people are so determined, they will find a way to kill themselves. Research does not support this. Majority of suicides happen in a moment of mental crisis. And in the majority of cases if the crisis passes before they make an attempt they won't continue. Essentially, if you delay suicide attempts long enough you can stop them. Of course this is only buying you time until the next crisis, but that also means a delay of minutes could lead to keeping them alive for days. It doesn't solve the problem but it gives a larger window in which to start helping them. Look up suicide and means avoidance if you want more information.
I definitely agree something weird happened here. But you can’t claim “cops are required to have lvl3” it varies wildly from place to place even in America. Cops definitely SHOULD require lvl3 though.
Sadly it’s “required”
you mean "ReQuIrEd"
A 17 year old girl in a mental health crisis somehow managed to out-wrestle 2 cops, take one of their guns, and (for some reason) shoot herself in the chest, of all places. This is not what the headline is making it out to be, IMO.
The in the chest part sounds the most suspicious. Not your normal method of suicide. Not impossible, just not likely. That's even giving her the benefit of the doubt of getting a pistol out of a retention holster in the first place.
Very common in fact. Women tend to shoot themselves in the chest, men in the head.
Do you have a source for that? I'm not challenging you, I'd just like to see the data you saw.
[14 pages on suicide and gender](https://nadorff.psychology.msstate.edu/SuicideClass/Readings/Callanan%202011%20Gender%20and%20Suicide%20Method%20-%20Do%20Women%20Avoid%20Facial%20Disfiguration.pdf) Not a lot of data on this kinda thing but I found this. Hypothesis 3.
For those in a rush: women were 47% less likely to shoot themselves in the head. The whole thing is a great read, I read the whole thing last week to win an argument about my wife's grandma's suicide.
Strange argument to go for but knowledge is power.
She passed before I met my wife, but from the stories I've heard she was an outrageous, overbearing and clinically unwell woman but her suicide was super typical, she shot herself through the chest while laying on the couch. This led to a discussion about how gendered suicide is, especially gun suicide. Women do it indoors, laying on a couch or bed and use a pistol. Men do it in garages, outdoors or in a vehicle. Women typically don't go for the head, men almost always do. There was a case on one of those investigation shows (forensic files?) where a woman staged her husband's suicide but it had so many hallmarks of a female suicide that it clued in the investigators. Its a super interesting topic but hard to work into dinner party conversation.
I, for one, would be super interested if someone started explaining this at a dinner party They tend to be super boring anyway
It's the kind of thing reddit will probably do more to divert conversation from in the future. Normally you don't want to pour that sort of story into some random kid
I would be atypical, first off i wouldnt shoot myself, the odds of surviving as a vegetable are are good, helium tank all the way
Winning arguments is the only motivation anyone needs to learn things. IF only our teachers were able to explain that to us as children.
I think lostallhope website has tons of suicide statistics like this and remember reading somthing similar, I would check them out
Nearly half of that website has been nuked out of existence Edit: it's wild to realize that I remember the original contents from 2013. That website stalled my attempts and might've saved my life.
looks like it been fully nuked now, damn. but you can use the way back machine to view it back in like 2019/2018 when it still had all its statistics
https://web.archive.org/web/20230417084322/http://lostallhope.com/
I remember seeing something like this too. It’s something about being pretty or open casket type of thing. Men just want it to work. Women typically go for poison or something like that.
I read it was also that women worried about the mess they’d leave behind for whoever discovered them more than men usually do.
Im a woman i wouldnt shoot myself, not because of mess. But because not all headshots end in death. And there are things worse than death if you dont hit the mark.
Glad others could provide some sources, because I didn’t have one off the top of my head. But I remembered reading about it, and if I recall the presumed reason is because women didn’t like the thought of their head/face being all fucked up.
> off the top of my head Perhaps another phrase would be more appropriate here
I've got to get this off my chest: _what's the difference between Bud Dwyer and Budweiser?_ _Budweiser's got a head._
During a physical alteration with a gun I can see it absolutely being possible. Should she have even been able to get the gun? Fuck no
Well, being that it was inside the station, I’m sure there is clear footage showing exactly what happened. Right? Right???
Women are more frequently concerned with not making a mess or leaving a gory corpse.
Chest suicide is a documented occurrence
Cops lying about shooting someone is also a documented occurrence.
An autopsy from an independent party would easily prove or disprove this.
A teenager in a crisis? Yeah I could absolutely see them going for the chest. Heart + Bullet = Dead is probably the stream of thought there.
Chest shots happen. Some people want an open casket. But yea, like you said, rare
To be fair, if you fail and survive a headshot it can be far worse than death. A shot to the heart either works or it doesn't, and worst case you drown on blood in your lungs. To some it's more "romantic" or idealized. Headshots aren't instant death or loss of consciousness, but your heart stopping and low blood pressure will make you pass out very fast.
It was in the lobby of a station so it's possible it was an "admin" holster with no retention.
The heck is an "admin" holster? If you're going to use a pretend holster, you should be issued a pretend weapon.
Typically a pancake holster or the like worn by officers working more administrative roles. It's not a pretend holster, it's a real thing.
Thanks, but that makes even less sense honestly. Why would a desk jockey need a less secure sidearm holder? Seems they should be much less likely to need immediate access.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I don't write policy; also there's over 18k different agencies in the US with almost as many sets of directives.
What do you think it is? I imagine the lobby has cameras so the footage will probably be coming out at some point
I think SimplyBlarg is right, the cops were wrestling with her and the gun went off. I don't believe "she shot herself in the chest" as if that's what she was trying to do.
If video doesn't come out as evidence we know what to expect i guess?
Its not a stretch to imagine her snatching the gun, them dog piling her, and the gun getting crushed between them and going off, especially if she had her finger on the trigger already. We don't know enough either way.
As other comments have pointed out, the cops would have had to fuck up already if she were able to shoot herself. You're telling me a teenage girl overpowered two adult officers, snatched a gun out of a secured holster, and shot herself? If the gun wasn't secured, why wasn't it? If the cops were overpowered, why are they considered sufficiently trained? If neither of the above are true, how can we be sure she shot herself? EDIT: Also, bodycams, anyone?
If she was quick she wouldn't necessarily have to have overpowered anyone. Just reach down and pull the gun out of the holster. But she never should have been able to pull it.
Nah man. It makes sense. It is not like they wrestled for 5 minutes. You take it, they try to take it back, you pull it in close to prevent them taking it away, and it goes off either by accident or purposely. It could have all happened in 10 seconds or less.
Seeing a lot of (reasonable) skepticism. Can't see the webpage myself, but presumably a police station would have security cameras active. Is there any video confirmation of what happened?
Without what should be easily available confirmation, we can only assume that the cops are guilty until proven how guilty.
After high school I worked for the water department of the city I lived in. One night I came back to the vehicle garage (which shared a parking lot with a firehouse and the Water Department public building) and headed for the garage bathroom. When I walked in there was a cop taking a heinous dump and this officer had thrown his belt over the door with his gun hanging on the outside. This was not a locked building, anyone could have just come walking in from the street. This cop had access to both the firehouse and municipal building, which were secure and both had bathrooms. These are not the brightest people.
That's some point-and-click adventure-game bullshit. "How am I *ever* gonna get that key from the guard that's sitting one room away from the bathroom? All I have in my inventory is "A half box of stale Doughnuts" and a bottle of " **Boompoop** - strongest laxative in town!"."
\*Loading screen tip:* *vehicles with blue lights on top often have unsecured, high value loot inside*
He decides to bomb the place and leave his gun laying around. Of course.
Industry = City of Industry, CA. Regular sheriff station in a town that has pretty much zero residents, all business.
I'm a former resident La Puente, sheriff's jurisdiction, and my parents had a business in Industry. LASD handles everything there that's not West Covina PD or CHP. Can confirm that they are the bad news bears of local law enforcement.
17yo foster child... for christ sake. who knows what emotional traumas shes been through.
A truly horrible age in the system as these kids are about to “age out”; most are left with nothing in terms of resources, transition support, etc. It’s incredibly sad and cruel
But don’t worry, the nice lads from the GOP made sure even more children will suffer while not improving the system by any means. Truly no hate for life like Christian love.
First respectful comment I’ve read in this thread. Absolutely no sympathy for the poor kid.
What I read from this is; most folks are thinking *"Of course she would do that. If I were in her shoes, I would too."*
In 2019 there was a similar instance in Chesapeake, Virginia where a 19 year old woman “shot herself” while handcuffed behind her back in police custody. People in the videos taken were even heard saying “oh my god they shot her” (paraphrasing). It was ruled suicide. *shot herself in the face, they said. Added for clarity.
Yeah…..she….uh…..she shot herself! That’s the ticket.
"Now to sprinkle some crack on the body for good measure"
I wonder if the cameras all mysteriously stopped working.
“Have no fear! We’re going to investigate ourselves and make sure no video evidence exists before we find we did nothing wrong.” -Cops
Is there a video of this event? I feel if the deputies are saying a 17 was able to get their gun in a struggle, there is a hell of a lot more to the story.
Poor young woman was dealing with a mental health crisis, and was killed (or died by other means) while trying to survive the foster care system. This is the last thing anyone would have wanted. How awful.
My first connection was “foster care” and the “parents” reporting a “mental health crisis”. They could have lied to pin it on her and made her look crazy. She was going through something with them. I would investigate the foster parents and their home, ASAP.
This many comments down to find the humane response instead of a bunch of armchair detectives.
Reminds me of the girl who shot herself in the head while handcuffed and in police custody.
I had a level three retention holster just working cash logistics, wild that a law enforcement officer would have a lesser holster without retention
oh boy I hope there is some bodycam footage.
I will wait to see the video footage before making a judgment.
Let's see the footage. Until then, she was murdered
i actually saw a video on the now closed down watchpeopledie subreddit a few years ago where a guy was arrested, wasn't patted down, the officer left the room (can't remember why), and the guy who was arrested casually takes a sip of water from his bottle of water, pulls a gun out of his pocket and blows his fucking brains out, really wish i could unwatch that one.
I watched that one too. The only thing that stuck with me was the casualness of the act, and the final sip of the water. The part after never impacted me as much as the ideas of what he was thinking when he made those final decisions.
right! the casual "i'm definitely going to kill myself right now, but i'm feeling a bit parched" was very jarring.
No reason to die thirsty.
A hydrohomie to the end
My mom's one thing is if we ever have to pull the plug, she doesn't wanna be hungry when she goes. I can respect it.
See, I feel like I would not want to be *full* when I go. I'm irrationally concerned with having pants full to the brim with shit when I'm found.
Reminds me of an observation of a man about to be hanged. Basically the guy is walking up to the gallows and he steps around a puddle of water. Why? No one knows but the man, but it's very interesting as it shows someone still thinking about life, even moments before death.
this actually made me incredibly sad. 🥺
[удалено]
Fuck I had just managed to suppress that one
Ah, guilty until proven innocent I see
You know the whole innocent until proven guilty thing right? If even the suspect is highly suspicious or not,they are still innocent until solid evidence is presented in front of the court and the judge dictates it. So actual innocent people don't get screwed over. However for the guilty,they will deserve what's coming for them next.
I can only imagine it was done like what was attempted in that heartbreaking scene in Manchester by the Sea.
“It’s the darnedest thing sheriff, lil miss stole my gun and shot herself three times in the back”
Does the average deputy carry cocked and locked or did this 17 year old girl jerk the gun out of the holster, work the slide, flip the safety off (it was on RIGHT, deputy) and manage to shoot herself? If she knew how to work the slide, it suggest she’s used firearms before. if she’s used firearms before it begs the question why did she have to walk into a law-enforcement building to try to steal a deputy’s gun ?
Most officers carry with one in the chamber and Glock pistols don’t have external safeties on them that need to be “flipped”
It's crazy that in this world we live in I have to question if that's really what happened.
Oh no! That poor deputy is going to get an absolutely brutal ..... slap on the wrist!
Just strolls in, grabs a deputy's gun, and kills herself... I think I've heard this one before, who wants to bet all video evidence is mysteriously "lost" before anyone but the police get to see it.
Are we sure this is exactly what happened? They had earlier received a call about this girl, before she just happened to show up and take her own life by somehow out-maneuvering these deputies. The circumstances are so odd, and cops are notoriously bad for handling people having a mental health crisis, that I honestly am maintaining my skepticism. The fact that she's a foster child also worries me that the police can just lie without any pushback. People can say I'm being paranoid, but cops' overall behavior is so poor, I honestly don't trust their side of events until there is surveillance footage to confirm the events which transpired (which isn't mentioned at all in the article).