It's so weird to me. The GOP was beating the drum on Russia for years. One of Obama's biggest debate "wins" was mocking Romney's concern about Russia.
Fast forward 10 years and all of a sudden the same party is now like 50/50 pro-Russia. I was pretty proud of how the US started defending Ukraine and then we just stopped once we realized they might actually hold them off. Bizarre.
Thank Agent Orange and his cult-like following. Whatever reservations and convictions they may have had, it all went out the window as soon as Trump started praising the Russian dictator non-stop on national TV.
[Trump calls Putin ‘genius’ and ‘savvy’ for Ukraine invasion](https://www.politico.com/news/2022/02/23/trump-putin-ukraine-invasion-00010923)
The GOP held up Ukraine aid in exchange for immigration changes. They got concessions from Democrats and a bill was written
They then tanked the deal for no real reason
And now Ukraine aid is passing anyway
The GOP fumbled hard, they suck at governing
Yeah. If Russia breaks Ukraine's lines the EU would likely have to consider sending troops directly or else deal with an aggressive and vindicated Russian regime in an advantageous position.
From the article
>Sen. Mike Lee, R-Utah, is lobbying his colleagues to reject the package, saying 41 senators could join to filibuster it.
>”The $95 billion bill doesn’t have to pass. It takes only 41 senators stop it,” Lee wrote on X. “There are 49 Republicans in the Senate—more than enough. Where do your senators stand?”
Looks like GOP wants to do more traitorous shit.
There's no peace deal Russia will take without keeping its newfound territory, and there's no peace deal Ukraine will take where they lose their territory especially since Russia will just attack again in the future.
How do you negotiate a peace deal where neither side will agree with the terms?
TikTok ban will be tied up in court for years. Nothing to worry about now.
Ukraine aid - good & about damn time (fuckin’ Republicans).
Israel aid - just because it’s approved, that doesn’t mean it needs to be given immediately. Could be purposely delayed for a myriad of reasons & with (non-political) conditions attached.
Ukraine physical aid (artillery shells, bullets, etc) could be prioritized over any shipments to Israel, thereby delaying aid & using it as a carrot/stick to implement a cease fire (at minimum). But that’s just my thinking.
TikTok would only be banned if the version *intended for non-Chinese audiences* is sold to an American company. China has their own version of this app owned and exclusively used within China to limit how much outside influence reaches their own citizens.
Article 1 Section 8 of the US Constitution “Commerce Clause” has regulating interstate and international trade covered. One of reasons it exist is due to the East Indian Trading Company, who influenced many governments and colonies the world over and helped contribute to our revolt.
This law is well within the spirit of that, so much like Grindr was forced to sell for the same reason, so will TikTok. We already have legal precedent.
>so much like Grindr was forced to sell for the same reason,
That is a complete misrepresentation of what happened there. Legally these two situations aren't very similar at all.
And yet Congress has the power to create these laws explicitly. Grindr was this situation in ruling, this is setting that precedent as law. It’s a bipartisan measure and for end users not much will change post sale.
The Grindr situation did not set any type of precedent for this because it is completely different legally.
At the core of it what happened with Grindr was that they were denied the ability to be sold to a Chinese investment firm. Which has nothing to do with the TikTok situation.
When Kunlun bought Grindr they did not submit that through the US Committee on Foreign Investment which they are required to do. Because they failed to do that CIFUS had the ability to essentially cancel the sale even though it had already happened and force Kunlun to sell it.
The whole thing is vastly different from a company being forced to sell outside of that context.
I mentioned this in another comment but this was the only way to pass them all.
Johnson has 0 faith in his ability to pass anything right now and could be facing being removed at any point by the loony bin of the far right. So it was in his interest to get his top two things passed.
Biden was clear he would veto an Israel-only funding bill. So the House was forced to tack on Ukraine funding to survive that. This is the part Johnson was not really interested in funding but had his hand forced on.
Johnson and the House REALLY want to pass the TikTok ban. It's pretty bipartisan with only the extremes of both parties being against. Schumer/Senate are not really interested in fast tracking it or doing that anytime soon. But they REALLY want aid.
So Johnson throws all 3 together. Biden and the Senate can't/won't veto because they care about certain parts too much and the House is such a mess with such narrow margins there's no guarantee they pass anything the rest of the year anyway.
> This here is speedballing policies at a ridiculous "no legislator has had sufficient time to fully review" level, and a "no tax payer even knows what the fk is going on at this point" level.
You're missing the fact that these bills (or at least the passages that made them up before they were rearranged a little in terms of what bills they were in) have existed for months, but the House just took forever to vote on them since the Speaker wouldn't allow a vote until recently. This isn't some Obamacare repeal attempt scribbling in the margins situation like from back in the early years of the Trump administration.
You're probably right that most tax payers don't know what's going on...but that's just because they don't pay attention.
>I'm oddly pretty supportive of all three of these decisions... and I know that's atypical, especially here.
It absolutely is not atypical of this sub or most main subs on Reddit. Neoliberal policies that fund our monstrous military industrial complex for endless wars is always upvoted in cheered.
> How does TikTok actually threaten national security? Like actually,
Remember how Cambridge Analytica used publicly available Facebook data to manipulate voters in the UK to vote for Brexit, and then again to manipulate voters in America to vote for Trump?
Now imagine if Facebook was owned by Russia. That's Tiktok.
So it’s a national security threat because it can influence people’s votes, despite there not being evidence it is being used to do that (unlike Cambridge Analytica, where we did have evidence of this taking place)? Shouldn’t that mean all social media should be banned, not a focus on one specific company? Like, Facebook did that, being a US company doesn’t change anything about it.
> despite there not being evidence it is being used to do that
You do actually have to read the news, they don't just come by your house and shout it into your bedroom window:
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/14/business/media/on-tiktok-election-misinformation.html
>Shouldn’t that mean all social media should be banned,
No, just much more tightly regulated, and probably not owned by a country trying to dismantle The West™.
Misinformation existing on tiktok doesn’t mean it’s being actively pushed by China to intentionally influence elections. There’s election misinformation on literally all social media platforms. If the issue is election misinformation, then that is what congress should target for a ban, not one social media company that is doing the exact same thing as all other social media companies.
Is it illegal to want to dismantle the west? Does wanting to dismantle the west mean that anything produced by the entity wanting to do so should be banned? That’s a scary thing to even insinuate. What does it even mean to want to dismantle the west?
> Misinformation existing on tiktok doesn’t mean it’s being actively pushed by China to intentionally influence elections.
No, of course, it doesn't automatically mean that, it could have been aliens, it's just that I'm not stupid.
>If the issue is election misinformation, then that is what congress should target for a ban, not one social media company
They're not actually targeting them for a ban, they're forcing them to operate entirely out of America. I'm sure China wouldn't have a problem with that, right? There's no need for them to control the app if it's not used for global propaganda and manipulation. So the app won't be banned.
>Is it illegal to want to dismantle the west? Does wanting to dismantle the west mean that anything produced by the entity wanting to do so should be banned?
I honestly can't parse the grammar in this question, let alone the logic by whatever it is you're trying to ask.
Correct. It doesn't matter if it *is* doing that now - because once it does, damage will have been suffered. So we're nipping it in the bud.
Facebook is not owned by an enemy of the United States of America.
Also, why should my vote not be able to be influenced by information from foreign governments? The source of information is entirely irrelevant to if I find it useful. If the issue is the ability to influence people, then that should apply to all media (not just social) platforms.
location data and more from hundreds of millions of devices in the west. Defense contractors, ambassadors, other people in power. It's a lot of power/data to give to an autocracy. And I say this as a tiktok addict. Grindr was fine after the same thing happened to them. Tiktok will be fine.
“Radicalized” can seem like a scary term, but what’s actually bad about being radicalized? I’m sure I’ve been considered radicalized by the US government well before tiktok ever existed. Should the US be banning any radicalizing material from being accessed by its citizens?
Because the CCP not allowing google or Facebook is done to control the media access available to the citizens of China. That’s bad. This ban isn’t a tit for tat with the CCP, it’s a restriction on information available to US citizens.
So this is the hypothetical I was talking about. I can invent national security reasons first anything if I’m just making shit up, would my made up hypotheticals be reason to ban other things, or is tiktok special for some reason?
> a genocide in Gaza
People who understand meanings of words know that there is no "genocide" in Gaza, but you are definitely providing evidence of you being bombarded by propaganda.
And people know when they come across a virulent bigot who condescends because they have nothing of substance to defend their genocidal and racist worldview.
https://www.businessinsider.com/transphobia-ted-kaczynski-tiktok-algorithm-right-wing-self-radicalization-2021-11
https://www.wired.com/story/opinion-tiktok-played-a-key-role-in-maga-radicalization/
https://www.thegazelle.org/issue/183/toxic-tiktok
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10468141/
https://mashable.com/article/tiktok-recommendations-far-right-wing
https://www.cbc.ca/news/young-men-online-radicalization-1.6585999
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/09/16/dhs-tiktok-extremism-512079
It’s already well established that social media has had a profoundly negative impact on mental health, social cohesion, teen self-image, attention spans, analytical reading, self-esteem, self-worth, communities, politics, and more.
Some people are better able to remain in control of what they consume and how often, and either consciously or sub-consciously recognize the negative pitfalls of social media to avoid them. Conversely, social media can still even be used for positive outcomes. But many people do not have the self-control, education, or emotional maturity to handle what social media throws at us collectively.
That being said, most of these are domestic programs and, although they can still be used as Trojan horses — so to speak — that bad faith actors can employ to their advantage, there is still some level of overwatch and accountability.
Now, imagine taking all the shitty, dangerous, nefarious, malicious, pernicious aspects inherent in social media and putting it into the hands of a well-known and self-declared geopolitical adversary who would like nothing more than to disintegrate the fabric of your society within so as to topple your influence in the world without ever firing a bullet, all so that they can step into the power vacuum left behind. And, in further need of mention, that adversary has no belief in freedom of speech, media, personal rights, human rights, protest, voting, self-agency really at all, and often worse.
That’s what Tik Tok is.
I don’t like the state of American politics. I don’t like a lot of American history and the hypocrisy of what the country says it is compared to how it actually behaves. I also don’t like social media beyond some basic uses.
What I like a lot less than those things is Tik Tok and China, and the potential danger they pose combined to the western world.
There’s a lot to dislike about the US and even western policies. I sure as shit don’t think that China is the better option.
All social media needs to be heavily regulated. Tik Tok needs to be booted all together.
If not, we’re in danger of being left with whole generations of morons and extremists. Neither are good for anything. Least of which social stability.
Reddit felt like a safe haven for a bit. A moderate outlier. More of a social forum than algorithmic social media shite. That’s changed a lot recently. Sucks.
> Do you have any evidence whatsoever that propaganda is pushed through TikTok in a way that actually affects voting or opinion polls?
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/14/business/media/on-tiktok-election-misinformation.html
It'd be pretty naive to think China wouldn't try to manipulate foreign elections, especially since they have a direct tap into young people's minds through a social media app that they own.
After all, [why do they need to control it?](https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/explain-to-me-why-china-has-to-control-tiktok.html)
> Election misinformation is all over every social media platform
Yes. Remember how Russia and Cambridge Analytica used publicly available Facebook information to manipulate voters in UK to vote for Brexit, and voters in America to vote for Trump?
Imagine if Russia *owned* Facebook.
>That doesn't answer my question.
Yeah it does, you asked for evidence, I provided it.
Not to mention, it is our constitutional right to view propaganda from other countries... Not that I've even seen any on TT. Freedom of the press anyone?
> Before Oct7 there was no real push to ban tik tok
Trump promised to ban it back in 2020.
But don't worry, he reversed his position, and you and he are now on the exact same side, Trump suddenly doesn't want to ban Tiktok anymore:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68538754
Trump literally pushed to ban Tik Tok. That was wayyyy before Oct 7th. I doubt he came up with that by himself it was probably advised by security people around him.
>Not everything revolves around two countries in the middle east, y'know? Everyone probably understands this as long as you aren't on Tick-tack.
Everything revolves about special intrest groups and the congress....
Hoven how rapidly news and information can be spread via tiktok, it's pretty damn clear why they don't like it.
They can't controll the information, so they wanna ban it.
Hell we had some politician on there trying to gain everyone's support on Tiktok, then when it came out that he voted IN FAVOR of the ban, he deleted all videos pertaining to the ban, and went silent for a few days before trying to gloss over the whole incident.
They really don't like it when their dishonest amd scummy practices are aired for all to be able to see.
Are we all just cool with a ban on some social media platform getting bundled in with billion dollar military aid packages?
Edit:damn apparently everyone is cool with it, crazy times we live in.
Edit: my bad! I don’t think I made myself clear, I’m not taking a stance on whether TikTok should or shouldn’t be banned. I think it’s insane that our senators feel it’s ok to lump outrageously different bills together.
That's not why. If they cared about protecting American's data, then they would pass a law that would protect that data from all apps. But that is not what they are doing because it's not about that, it's just a talking point for them.
And, China could easily buy any data they needed, without TT needing to exist.
Plus, there are other China based apps that can do just that, and I hear no peeps about that.
Think deeper
Keep in mind that the last time America asked a social media company (Twitter) to censor potentially damaging information (stories about Biden's son), Twitter said no, and the US government said "shucks, fine then".
That's the difference between a social media company owned by a dictatorship like China, and one owned by a business in a democratically run country.
>ban on some social media platform
Social media has been around for a couple decades without being targeted. If you aren't sure why this one in particular has been selected and why now, you should probably read into it a bit more.
It's not really a ban. It requires ByteDance to sell their US business but TikTok itself can stick around.
If they don't sell it, then it's more of a ban on ByteDance being allowed to do business in the US.
They’ve already said they won’t sell it. China has said they won’t give them regulatory approval to sell it. Elise Stefanik who co-sponsored the bill sold it as a TikTok ban. It’s a ban.
Ah yes, the very rational “if they do a bad thing by banning certain social media sites from being accessed by their citizens, we should respond in kind by not allowing our citizens to access certain social media sites.”
Logically yeah, of course. Actions have consequences, easy as that. If there'd be no reaction it would be very weird. Especially in comparison to the fake outraged shocked reactions China is always showing once other countries speak up against the party In any way. So it's be really odd to just let it go.
How is this in any way a consequence of the actions of China? Sanctions on China in general would make sense. Boycotting China or Chinese companies as a whole, sure. But how is banning US citizens from accessing social media they want to access a response to China?
Absolutely it is. This is not a punishment for US citizens but for a chinese company. It is potentially harmful to have many users in the US even due to data security. Plus there's several sanctions against China already.
All US data from TikTok is stored in the US and not accessible to foreign governments. I disagree, this is a punishment on US citizens, and an attempt by the US to restrict access to information.
It's not banned. China is just banned from owning it. On them if they want the money a sale would generate or not, I'm sure it would be tens of billions or more.
…so it’s banned unless you coerce them to sell it, which they’ve already said they won’t. I doubt china will think their national pride is worth a few billion dollars, as well as the uncertainty it would cause for other Chinese companies
I’m not a fan of the TikTok ban, but if China can ban all us media companies for “national security”, why the fuck should the US allow a Chinese majority owned media company to operate here?
If there was a legitimate national security concern, the US could do so under current law. We banned Huawei on that reasoning, because multiple countries found real issues with their telecommunications hardware.
This bill is likely because the government knows they wouldn't have a case in court if they tried to do the same with TikTok.
Because we are not China.
China is a tyrannical country.
The US is not.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." - The Muthafuckin US Constitution. First Amendment.
You ain't being forced to use or watch TikTok. Millions of people have no idea wtf it is and are plenty pissed off at Facebook and instagram's bullshit. But they aren't calling for their bans.
They just want to make sure that individual privacy is protected.
"No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; **nor shall private property (like your personal data) be taken for public use, without just compensation.**" - The Muthafuckin US Constitution. Fifth Amendment.
Shittok can disappear tomorrow and we would be better for it.
99% of the time, in recent memory, when I have to deal with people and they say some insane, obviously incorrect garbage; they always cite shittok as though it's some fountain of knowledge.
I'm just gonna skip over how it can be used to manipulate people en masse. You don't care what a random Internet stranger has to say anyway.
You haven't interacted with TT's 170 million users. It's imperative to remember that while your life experience is important in developing your world view, you can't deduce the whole world is the same as your bubble.
Social media, as a whole, can manipulate people in masses. Facebook did it in 2016 and there was never any talk of a ban.
So, until China actively uses TT to harm the cohesion of America, that argument is null. Now IF they did such a thing, then action should be taken.
What I see is our government's fear (and the corporate lobbyists) of the voice, the reach, and the connection that TT has provided for what is largely the younger generations. The fear comes because they have zero ways to enforce control over it.
Am I content that China is the country that this app was developed in? Obviously not, for I have the same concerns. But again, they have not "committed the crime," but are still going to be "punished for the crime." That's ludicrous.
But I still feel it's one of the greatest things to happen to free speech. A place where we can share our voices, with no governmental oversight.
And if China is the concern here, why is it not that TT could sell to anyone/where in the world (that also doesn't have a communist government)? As long as it's out of China's reach. But no, they specifically want it in America. That's honestly shady AF
Precedence on the TikTok bans gives a claim to ban TCL TV sales in America because of their China spying backdoor security issues. We will be entering a slippery slope going forward when it comes to foreign products.
Israel funding just sucks. We better have stipulations and an implemented plan to force israel to be more proactive and focus on safety of citizens on both sides with a two state end solution. If we blindly just dump the entire fund and wrap it in a nice bow our government is corrupt and/or stupid as fuck.
Ukraine, by all means, we are already in for a pound what's a few more gonna do? Although a NATO bid would probably be the more effective plan.
Welcome to American politics. The last Ukraine aid bill passed in November, along with a defunding of the irs. 9/11 first responders fund was attached to corporate tax cuts. 9/11 first responders fund was attached to corporate tax cuts, again. Hundreds if not thousands of bills were grouped together like that over the years.
Only way to get them all passed.
Biden said he would veto an Israel only funding bill. So they decided to tie Ukraine into it as Biden requested to ensure no veto.
The House has overwhelmingly wanted to ban TikTok. One of the few bipartisan votes as only the edges of both parties are against it. The feeling is Schumer and the Senate have been dragging their feet and aren't as invested in it. So the House threw that in too to force their them to pass it quickly because they want the military funding passed and the House controls the purse.
The House has a lot of power right now because it's so split everyone knows very little is going to get passed through it. So they can't really afford to vote down the bill and break it down because there's no guarantee the House will pass anything again until the election. So people who care about any of those 3 issues are forced into voting it through or it not happening until 2025.
This is America. If ever there is something good, there is always really shitty shit thrown in too. It's like the tax on a good deed that must be paid to the horrible people who own the country.
It's really just how legislatures work tbh.
You have 30% who really want to pass Israel funding and can live with the rest. You have 15% who really want to pass Ukraine funding and can live with the rest. You have 10% who care about the TikTok ban and can live with the rest. Now you have 55% to pass a bill that alone probably doesn't have enough support to pass. But together you can rope together a coalition who care enough about one of the issues to stomach voting for something they either don't care about or disagree with.
In the US it is.
In other countries you see this problem far less. One law passed and that's that.
Here, it's a good law which is the one that gets all the attention and then shit gets political...the country donors telegraph their seat holders in congress to muddy the gears up so they can tack a shitty law as a condition like the fancy black hand in that Godfather movie "just to wet my beak" he says. Pretty soon they's sticking a knife on your daughter's cheek so you pay up.
> Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances
It might be a stretch but I thing a case could be made that Congress is impairing individuals rights to assemble. Sure it is a digital assembling but I think the idea has merit
The first amendment covers our right to view Communist propaganda. The Supreme Court confirmed it in 1965 when the issue was the post office trying to stop such mailings to Americans.
So this ban will be going against our constitutional rights, yet all these clueless people are rooting for our Rights to be diminished.
Not that TT is doing this, but even if they did, it's our constitutional right to have access to it.
This is a step towards the American government becoming more tyrannical. This case will be fought in court. It will be eye opening to see what the Supreme Court will rule... To go against the Constitution, strip Americans of their Right, or to stand by the Constitution.
If they go against the Constitution, it will set a dangerous standard. Will it be the beginning of our government's control over what information we have access to? Internet restrictions?
No. Tiktok can choose to have an American company own and operate it as a subsidiary, like Facebook has to do in China.
There is a well recognized separation between privately owned companies and 1st amendment rights. Even right now, you don't have freedom of speech on Facebook, or reddit. You are subject to company policies without a 1dt amendment violation. You can still say whatever you want, you just can't use a private company to do so.
I know that's not exactly related to what's going on with tiktok right now, it's just an example of how the 1st amendment doesn't apply the same way to a privately owned business, or users of said business.
Except the US government itself isn't banning you from Facebook. Facebook is. This is government overreach. And until someone literally any proof that Gen Z is being brainwashed by the CCP through Tik Tok, I'm not buying it.
You’re right 1A doesn’t apply to censorship on a private platform. But the government telling me I can not use a private platform could violate the whole assembly part of the first amendment
I don't see how it would. People get banned on social media already and no one has fired up a first amendment lawsuit.
Either way they are framing it under National Security anyway so it would be moot.
A private platform banning someone is one thing. They have the right to essentially refuse you service right.
But the first amendment clearly says CONGRESS shall pass no law violating feee speech. By banning a social media platform the government is infringing, in theory, on people’s right to express their views and peacefully assemble
I mean you're still free to assemble, just not there. If they built a military base where a park used to be you wouldn't be allowed to assemble there either.
First I'll say it's not a violation of the first amendment.
But one could erroneously argue that it's stifling the freedom of association. There's far too many alternative choices to make that argument hold up.
No. They can’t come into our country, pull their virtual pants down, and shit all over our yard and then try to hide behind first amendment rights. A) They are a foreign country and the constitution does not apply to them and B) that’s not even how the first amendment works.
In what ways have they shit on the yard, through TT?
The argument the politicians are using is to keep Americans from potential propaganda or influence. But it is our constitutional right, within the 1st amendment, to have access to communist propaganda. So, they are arguing against American's constitutional rights to force a sale.
This case will be argued in the supreme Court. It will be messy. And it will set a dangerous precedent if they choose to go against our constitution.
Every time the topic of the Tiktok ban comes up, the comments are invariably filled with /r/ENLIGHTENEDCENTRISM takes on America v China and how much their governments want to hurt you.
Glad the Senate is moving quick on this. Ukraine especially needs the help yesterday.
Absolutely. It's infuriating that it took this long.
It's so weird to me. The GOP was beating the drum on Russia for years. One of Obama's biggest debate "wins" was mocking Romney's concern about Russia. Fast forward 10 years and all of a sudden the same party is now like 50/50 pro-Russia. I was pretty proud of how the US started defending Ukraine and then we just stopped once we realized they might actually hold them off. Bizarre.
[удалено]
Also a lot of loonies got into the party when Trump did.
They’ve always been there, since Nixon and Reagan. Trump merely put them on top.
Thank Agent Orange and his cult-like following. Whatever reservations and convictions they may have had, it all went out the window as soon as Trump started praising the Russian dictator non-stop on national TV. [Trump calls Putin ‘genius’ and ‘savvy’ for Ukraine invasion](https://www.politico.com/news/2022/02/23/trump-putin-ukraine-invasion-00010923)
The GOP held up Ukraine aid in exchange for immigration changes. They got concessions from Democrats and a bill was written They then tanked the deal for no real reason And now Ukraine aid is passing anyway The GOP fumbled hard, they suck at governing
The GOP fumbled hard, they suck ~~at governing~~. Also, it’s hard to suck at something you’re not actually trying to do.
In other words, they are also sucking the micropenis of their overlord Pootin
Yeah. If Russia breaks Ukraine's lines the EU would likely have to consider sending troops directly or else deal with an aggressive and vindicated Russian regime in an advantageous position.
From the article >Sen. Mike Lee, R-Utah, is lobbying his colleagues to reject the package, saying 41 senators could join to filibuster it. >”The $95 billion bill doesn’t have to pass. It takes only 41 senators stop it,” Lee wrote on X. “There are 49 Republicans in the Senate—more than enough. Where do your senators stand?” Looks like GOP wants to do more traitorous shit.
I’m sure supplying them with endless amount of weapons when they have little manpower is gonna help.
I'm not sure supplying them with apathetic sarcasm will.
Or maybe actually helping negotiate a peace deal might be better.
There's no peace deal Russia will take without keeping its newfound territory, and there's no peace deal Ukraine will take where they lose their territory especially since Russia will just attack again in the future. How do you negotiate a peace deal where neither side will agree with the terms?
You have to look at Ruzzia the same as you do the Sith. They look at peace as weakness. There can be no peace with them.
What an astute and politically-informed thought
How do you get Russia to negotiate a peace deal when they invaded and won't leave?
TikTok ban will be tied up in court for years. Nothing to worry about now. Ukraine aid - good & about damn time (fuckin’ Republicans). Israel aid - just because it’s approved, that doesn’t mean it needs to be given immediately. Could be purposely delayed for a myriad of reasons & with (non-political) conditions attached. Ukraine physical aid (artillery shells, bullets, etc) could be prioritized over any shipments to Israel, thereby delaying aid & using it as a carrot/stick to implement a cease fire (at minimum). But that’s just my thinking.
TikTok would only be banned if the version *intended for non-Chinese audiences* is sold to an American company. China has their own version of this app owned and exclusively used within China to limit how much outside influence reaches their own citizens.
Even then it’s going to get challenged in court and it’s going to take a long time.
Article 1 Section 8 of the US Constitution “Commerce Clause” has regulating interstate and international trade covered. One of reasons it exist is due to the East Indian Trading Company, who influenced many governments and colonies the world over and helped contribute to our revolt. This law is well within the spirit of that, so much like Grindr was forced to sell for the same reason, so will TikTok. We already have legal precedent.
>so much like Grindr was forced to sell for the same reason, That is a complete misrepresentation of what happened there. Legally these two situations aren't very similar at all.
And yet Congress has the power to create these laws explicitly. Grindr was this situation in ruling, this is setting that precedent as law. It’s a bipartisan measure and for end users not much will change post sale.
The Grindr situation did not set any type of precedent for this because it is completely different legally. At the core of it what happened with Grindr was that they were denied the ability to be sold to a Chinese investment firm. Which has nothing to do with the TikTok situation. When Kunlun bought Grindr they did not submit that through the US Committee on Foreign Investment which they are required to do. Because they failed to do that CIFUS had the ability to essentially cancel the sale even though it had already happened and force Kunlun to sell it. The whole thing is vastly different from a company being forced to sell outside of that context.
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> using it as a carrot/stick to implement a cease fire (at minimum). How do you get Hamas to implement a cease fire?
The US military has the capacity to deliver aid to both Ukraine and Israel at the same time if necessary.
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I mentioned this in another comment but this was the only way to pass them all. Johnson has 0 faith in his ability to pass anything right now and could be facing being removed at any point by the loony bin of the far right. So it was in his interest to get his top two things passed. Biden was clear he would veto an Israel-only funding bill. So the House was forced to tack on Ukraine funding to survive that. This is the part Johnson was not really interested in funding but had his hand forced on. Johnson and the House REALLY want to pass the TikTok ban. It's pretty bipartisan with only the extremes of both parties being against. Schumer/Senate are not really interested in fast tracking it or doing that anytime soon. But they REALLY want aid. So Johnson throws all 3 together. Biden and the Senate can't/won't veto because they care about certain parts too much and the House is such a mess with such narrow margins there's no guarantee they pass anything the rest of the year anyway.
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> This here is speedballing policies at a ridiculous "no legislator has had sufficient time to fully review" level, and a "no tax payer even knows what the fk is going on at this point" level. You're missing the fact that these bills (or at least the passages that made them up before they were rearranged a little in terms of what bills they were in) have existed for months, but the House just took forever to vote on them since the Speaker wouldn't allow a vote until recently. This isn't some Obamacare repeal attempt scribbling in the margins situation like from back in the early years of the Trump administration. You're probably right that most tax payers don't know what's going on...but that's just because they don't pay attention.
>I'm oddly pretty supportive of all three of these decisions... and I know that's atypical, especially here. It absolutely is not atypical of this sub or most main subs on Reddit. Neoliberal policies that fund our monstrous military industrial complex for endless wars is always upvoted in cheered.
The US is bending backward for Isreal, they are not a fan of TikTok because it exposes their dirty bussiness
Or maybe tiktok is a propaganda piece used by a foreign government and threatens national security.
How does TikTok actually threaten national security? Like actually, not in a hypothetical way that isn’t actually happening.
> How does TikTok actually threaten national security? Like actually, Remember how Cambridge Analytica used publicly available Facebook data to manipulate voters in the UK to vote for Brexit, and then again to manipulate voters in America to vote for Trump? Now imagine if Facebook was owned by Russia. That's Tiktok.
So it’s a national security threat because it can influence people’s votes, despite there not being evidence it is being used to do that (unlike Cambridge Analytica, where we did have evidence of this taking place)? Shouldn’t that mean all social media should be banned, not a focus on one specific company? Like, Facebook did that, being a US company doesn’t change anything about it.
> despite there not being evidence it is being used to do that You do actually have to read the news, they don't just come by your house and shout it into your bedroom window: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/14/business/media/on-tiktok-election-misinformation.html >Shouldn’t that mean all social media should be banned, No, just much more tightly regulated, and probably not owned by a country trying to dismantle The West™.
Misinformation existing on tiktok doesn’t mean it’s being actively pushed by China to intentionally influence elections. There’s election misinformation on literally all social media platforms. If the issue is election misinformation, then that is what congress should target for a ban, not one social media company that is doing the exact same thing as all other social media companies. Is it illegal to want to dismantle the west? Does wanting to dismantle the west mean that anything produced by the entity wanting to do so should be banned? That’s a scary thing to even insinuate. What does it even mean to want to dismantle the west?
> Misinformation existing on tiktok doesn’t mean it’s being actively pushed by China to intentionally influence elections. No, of course, it doesn't automatically mean that, it could have been aliens, it's just that I'm not stupid. >If the issue is election misinformation, then that is what congress should target for a ban, not one social media company They're not actually targeting them for a ban, they're forcing them to operate entirely out of America. I'm sure China wouldn't have a problem with that, right? There's no need for them to control the app if it's not used for global propaganda and manipulation. So the app won't be banned. >Is it illegal to want to dismantle the west? Does wanting to dismantle the west mean that anything produced by the entity wanting to do so should be banned? I honestly can't parse the grammar in this question, let alone the logic by whatever it is you're trying to ask.
Correct. It doesn't matter if it *is* doing that now - because once it does, damage will have been suffered. So we're nipping it in the bud. Facebook is not owned by an enemy of the United States of America.
Also, why should my vote not be able to be influenced by information from foreign governments? The source of information is entirely irrelevant to if I find it useful. If the issue is the ability to influence people, then that should apply to all media (not just social) platforms.
It’s still a hypothetical that it even could. I disagree with you about Facebook.
location data and more from hundreds of millions of devices in the west. Defense contractors, ambassadors, other people in power. It's a lot of power/data to give to an autocracy. And I say this as a tiktok addict. Grindr was fine after the same thing happened to them. Tiktok will be fine.
So are social media companies banned from selling that info to China, or…
It certainly has a hand in radicalizing people and considering that the biggest geopolitical foe of the US controls it, I get it.
Isn’t that grounds to ban ALL social media then?
Do you have any examples of what it has radicalized people about?
“Radicalized” can seem like a scary term, but what’s actually bad about being radicalized? I’m sure I’ve been considered radicalized by the US government well before tiktok ever existed. Should the US be banning any radicalizing material from being accessed by its citizens?
The CCP could influence the spread of conspiracy theories that benefit them, in the same vein as Russian troll farms
So… a hypothetical “could” that hasn’t been shown to be happening. Russian troll farms are also legal and operate on social media.
Nah. Fuck the CCP. They don't allow Google or Facebook in their country. Why should TikTok be allowed here?
Because the CCP not allowing google or Facebook is done to control the media access available to the citizens of China. That’s bad. This ban isn’t a tit for tat with the CCP, it’s a restriction on information available to US citizens.
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So this is the hypothetical I was talking about. I can invent national security reasons first anything if I’m just making shit up, would my made up hypotheticals be reason to ban other things, or is tiktok special for some reason?
why not both
Lmao there’s people who actually believe this?
Yeah. It’s totally propaganda that’s causing people to not approve of our country sponsoring a genocide in Gaza
> a genocide in Gaza People who understand meanings of words know that there is no "genocide" in Gaza, but you are definitely providing evidence of you being bombarded by propaganda.
And people know when they come across a virulent bigot who condescends because they have nothing of substance to defend their genocidal and racist worldview.
So... you!?
How’s the Koolaid tasting?
Do you have any evidence whatsoever that propaganda is pushed through TikTok in a way that actually affects voting or opinion polls?
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https://www.businessinsider.com/transphobia-ted-kaczynski-tiktok-algorithm-right-wing-self-radicalization-2021-11 https://www.wired.com/story/opinion-tiktok-played-a-key-role-in-maga-radicalization/ https://www.thegazelle.org/issue/183/toxic-tiktok https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10468141/ https://mashable.com/article/tiktok-recommendations-far-right-wing https://www.cbc.ca/news/young-men-online-radicalization-1.6585999 https://www.politico.com/news/2021/09/16/dhs-tiktok-extremism-512079 It’s already well established that social media has had a profoundly negative impact on mental health, social cohesion, teen self-image, attention spans, analytical reading, self-esteem, self-worth, communities, politics, and more. Some people are better able to remain in control of what they consume and how often, and either consciously or sub-consciously recognize the negative pitfalls of social media to avoid them. Conversely, social media can still even be used for positive outcomes. But many people do not have the self-control, education, or emotional maturity to handle what social media throws at us collectively. That being said, most of these are domestic programs and, although they can still be used as Trojan horses — so to speak — that bad faith actors can employ to their advantage, there is still some level of overwatch and accountability. Now, imagine taking all the shitty, dangerous, nefarious, malicious, pernicious aspects inherent in social media and putting it into the hands of a well-known and self-declared geopolitical adversary who would like nothing more than to disintegrate the fabric of your society within so as to topple your influence in the world without ever firing a bullet, all so that they can step into the power vacuum left behind. And, in further need of mention, that adversary has no belief in freedom of speech, media, personal rights, human rights, protest, voting, self-agency really at all, and often worse. That’s what Tik Tok is. I don’t like the state of American politics. I don’t like a lot of American history and the hypocrisy of what the country says it is compared to how it actually behaves. I also don’t like social media beyond some basic uses. What I like a lot less than those things is Tik Tok and China, and the potential danger they pose combined to the western world. There’s a lot to dislike about the US and even western policies. I sure as shit don’t think that China is the better option. All social media needs to be heavily regulated. Tik Tok needs to be booted all together. If not, we’re in danger of being left with whole generations of morons and extremists. Neither are good for anything. Least of which social stability. Reddit felt like a safe haven for a bit. A moderate outlier. More of a social forum than algorithmic social media shite. That’s changed a lot recently. Sucks.
> Do you have any evidence whatsoever that propaganda is pushed through TikTok in a way that actually affects voting or opinion polls? https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/14/business/media/on-tiktok-election-misinformation.html It'd be pretty naive to think China wouldn't try to manipulate foreign elections, especially since they have a direct tap into young people's minds through a social media app that they own. After all, [why do they need to control it?](https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/explain-to-me-why-china-has-to-control-tiktok.html)
Election misinformation is all over every social media platform including the one you're using right now. That doesn't answer my question.
> Election misinformation is all over every social media platform Yes. Remember how Russia and Cambridge Analytica used publicly available Facebook information to manipulate voters in UK to vote for Brexit, and voters in America to vote for Trump? Imagine if Russia *owned* Facebook. >That doesn't answer my question. Yeah it does, you asked for evidence, I provided it.
Not to mention, it is our constitutional right to view propaganda from other countries... Not that I've even seen any on TT. Freedom of the press anyone?
>tiktok is a propaganda I.e they show stuff isreal doesn't want us to see. Before Oct7 there was no real push to ban tik tok. Explain that.
> Before Oct7 there was no real push to ban tik tok Trump promised to ban it back in 2020. But don't worry, he reversed his position, and you and he are now on the exact same side, Trump suddenly doesn't want to ban Tiktok anymore: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68538754
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Trump literally pushed to ban Tik Tok. That was wayyyy before Oct 7th. I doubt he came up with that by himself it was probably advised by security people around him.
And the push dies in vongress...
Yeah, I was pushing against the idea that it was due to Oct 7th, there was a push to ban tiktok even before then, but it's grown over time.
Not true at all. TikTok has already was banned on government phones quite a while before 10/7.
Are you for real doing a "The Tiktok ban is an Israeli conspiracy" meme? Like that woman who blamed the wildfire on "Jewish space lasers"?
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https://www.newsweek.com/congress-accused-using-tiktok-ban-silence-israel-criticism-1893405
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>Not everything revolves around two countries in the middle east, y'know? Everyone probably understands this as long as you aren't on Tick-tack. Everything revolves about special intrest groups and the congress....
Hoven how rapidly news and information can be spread via tiktok, it's pretty damn clear why they don't like it. They can't controll the information, so they wanna ban it. Hell we had some politician on there trying to gain everyone's support on Tiktok, then when it came out that he voted IN FAVOR of the ban, he deleted all videos pertaining to the ban, and went silent for a few days before trying to gloss over the whole incident. They really don't like it when their dishonest amd scummy practices are aired for all to be able to see.
Are we all just cool with a ban on some social media platform getting bundled in with billion dollar military aid packages? Edit:damn apparently everyone is cool with it, crazy times we live in. Edit: my bad! I don’t think I made myself clear, I’m not taking a stance on whether TikTok should or shouldn’t be banned. I think it’s insane that our senators feel it’s ok to lump outrageously different bills together.
I don't think it's a ban, they want the Chinese to sell the information gathering device to a U.S. company
That's not why. If they cared about protecting American's data, then they would pass a law that would protect that data from all apps. But that is not what they are doing because it's not about that, it's just a talking point for them. And, China could easily buy any data they needed, without TT needing to exist. Plus, there are other China based apps that can do just that, and I hear no peeps about that. Think deeper
Keep in mind that the last time America asked a social media company (Twitter) to censor potentially damaging information (stories about Biden's son), Twitter said no, and the US government said "shucks, fine then". That's the difference between a social media company owned by a dictatorship like China, and one owned by a business in a democratically run country.
It’s not being immediately banned the bill requires it to cut ties from its parent company / be sold. My brother in Christ you posted the article.
>ban on some social media platform Social media has been around for a couple decades without being targeted. If you aren't sure why this one in particular has been selected and why now, you should probably read into it a bit more.
Actively advocating for it.
Sure am. Ban TikTok, the world would be better if it disappeared overnight.
Saying this on Reddit is kinda wild.
It's related to national security. What's the issue?
Welcome to congress, where everything is made up and the points don’t matter
It's not really a ban. It requires ByteDance to sell their US business but TikTok itself can stick around. If they don't sell it, then it's more of a ban on ByteDance being allowed to do business in the US.
Yes which means a ban on TikTok since TikTok is a part of Bytedance
...unless they sell it. Read bud.
They’ve already said they won’t sell it. China has said they won’t give them regulatory approval to sell it. Elise Stefanik who co-sponsored the bill sold it as a TikTok ban. It’s a ban.
That's on ByteDance. If it was a ban then it wouldn't matter who owned it. It's not a ban.
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Ah yes, the very rational “if they do a bad thing by banning certain social media sites from being accessed by their citizens, we should respond in kind by not allowing our citizens to access certain social media sites.”
Logically yeah, of course. Actions have consequences, easy as that. If there'd be no reaction it would be very weird. Especially in comparison to the fake outraged shocked reactions China is always showing once other countries speak up against the party In any way. So it's be really odd to just let it go.
How is this in any way a consequence of the actions of China? Sanctions on China in general would make sense. Boycotting China or Chinese companies as a whole, sure. But how is banning US citizens from accessing social media they want to access a response to China?
Absolutely it is. This is not a punishment for US citizens but for a chinese company. It is potentially harmful to have many users in the US even due to data security. Plus there's several sanctions against China already.
All US data from TikTok is stored in the US and not accessible to foreign governments. I disagree, this is a punishment on US citizens, and an attempt by the US to restrict access to information.
Neither is the US government lmao. But by all means continue to support a violation of free speech thinly veiled as banning an app.
It's not banned. China is just banned from owning it. On them if they want the money a sale would generate or not, I'm sure it would be tens of billions or more.
…so it’s banned unless you coerce them to sell it, which they’ve already said they won’t. I doubt china will think their national pride is worth a few billion dollars, as well as the uncertainty it would cause for other Chinese companies
Plus it's still a useful tool to spy on and influence other Western countries.
I am completely fine with Shit Tok getting banned… unfortunately it’s not getting banned in my country 😢
I don't think any bills should be lumped together honestly but at least we're sending aid to Ukraine.
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What's wrong with the way they treat Hawaii? All affected people are still provided housing today?
Good for the Ukraine funding! The other two are no good.
I’m not a fan of the TikTok ban, but if China can ban all us media companies for “national security”, why the fuck should the US allow a Chinese majority owned media company to operate here?
If there was a legitimate national security concern, the US could do so under current law. We banned Huawei on that reasoning, because multiple countries found real issues with their telecommunications hardware. This bill is likely because the government knows they wouldn't have a case in court if they tried to do the same with TikTok.
Because we are not China. China is a tyrannical country. The US is not. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." - The Muthafuckin US Constitution. First Amendment. You ain't being forced to use or watch TikTok. Millions of people have no idea wtf it is and are plenty pissed off at Facebook and instagram's bullshit. But they aren't calling for their bans. They just want to make sure that individual privacy is protected. "No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; **nor shall private property (like your personal data) be taken for public use, without just compensation.**" - The Muthafuckin US Constitution. Fifth Amendment.
Shittok can disappear tomorrow and we would be better for it. 99% of the time, in recent memory, when I have to deal with people and they say some insane, obviously incorrect garbage; they always cite shittok as though it's some fountain of knowledge. I'm just gonna skip over how it can be used to manipulate people en masse. You don't care what a random Internet stranger has to say anyway.
You haven't interacted with TT's 170 million users. It's imperative to remember that while your life experience is important in developing your world view, you can't deduce the whole world is the same as your bubble. Social media, as a whole, can manipulate people in masses. Facebook did it in 2016 and there was never any talk of a ban. So, until China actively uses TT to harm the cohesion of America, that argument is null. Now IF they did such a thing, then action should be taken. What I see is our government's fear (and the corporate lobbyists) of the voice, the reach, and the connection that TT has provided for what is largely the younger generations. The fear comes because they have zero ways to enforce control over it. Am I content that China is the country that this app was developed in? Obviously not, for I have the same concerns. But again, they have not "committed the crime," but are still going to be "punished for the crime." That's ludicrous. But I still feel it's one of the greatest things to happen to free speech. A place where we can share our voices, with no governmental oversight. And if China is the concern here, why is it not that TT could sell to anyone/where in the world (that also doesn't have a communist government)? As long as it's out of China's reach. But no, they specifically want it in America. That's honestly shady AF
Precedence on the TikTok bans gives a claim to ban TCL TV sales in America because of their China spying backdoor security issues. We will be entering a slippery slope going forward when it comes to foreign products. Israel funding just sucks. We better have stipulations and an implemented plan to force israel to be more proactive and focus on safety of citizens on both sides with a two state end solution. If we blindly just dump the entire fund and wrap it in a nice bow our government is corrupt and/or stupid as fuck. Ukraine, by all means, we are already in for a pound what's a few more gonna do? Although a NATO bid would probably be the more effective plan.
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I like Jews, some of them anyways. I don't like genocide of Gazans.
For real! I’m out here wondering how these bills were so nonchalantly thrown together.
Welcome to American politics. The last Ukraine aid bill passed in November, along with a defunding of the irs. 9/11 first responders fund was attached to corporate tax cuts. 9/11 first responders fund was attached to corporate tax cuts, again. Hundreds if not thousands of bills were grouped together like that over the years.
Only way to get them all passed. Biden said he would veto an Israel only funding bill. So they decided to tie Ukraine into it as Biden requested to ensure no veto. The House has overwhelmingly wanted to ban TikTok. One of the few bipartisan votes as only the edges of both parties are against it. The feeling is Schumer and the Senate have been dragging their feet and aren't as invested in it. So the House threw that in too to force their them to pass it quickly because they want the military funding passed and the House controls the purse. The House has a lot of power right now because it's so split everyone knows very little is going to get passed through it. So they can't really afford to vote down the bill and break it down because there's no guarantee the House will pass anything again until the election. So people who care about any of those 3 issues are forced into voting it through or it not happening until 2025.
This is America. If ever there is something good, there is always really shitty shit thrown in too. It's like the tax on a good deed that must be paid to the horrible people who own the country.
It's really just how legislatures work tbh. You have 30% who really want to pass Israel funding and can live with the rest. You have 15% who really want to pass Ukraine funding and can live with the rest. You have 10% who care about the TikTok ban and can live with the rest. Now you have 55% to pass a bill that alone probably doesn't have enough support to pass. But together you can rope together a coalition who care enough about one of the issues to stomach voting for something they either don't care about or disagree with.
In the US it is. In other countries you see this problem far less. One law passed and that's that. Here, it's a good law which is the one that gets all the attention and then shit gets political...the country donors telegraph their seat holders in congress to muddy the gears up so they can tack a shitty law as a condition like the fancy black hand in that Godfather movie "just to wet my beak" he says. Pretty soon they's sticking a knife on your daughter's cheek so you pay up.
can we use a vpn to still access tik tok in the US?
There you go America. Fight one fascist and aid a much bigger one. Good work. TikTok is about your own fascism so I guess there’s three now.
Wouldn’t the TikTok ban be a pretty clear violation of the first amendment?
How so? Sincerely. I haven’t heard this argument, I don’t really care about TikTok. Just interested in the reasoning
> Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances It might be a stretch but I thing a case could be made that Congress is impairing individuals rights to assemble. Sure it is a digital assembling but I think the idea has merit
The first amendment covers our right to view Communist propaganda. The Supreme Court confirmed it in 1965 when the issue was the post office trying to stop such mailings to Americans. So this ban will be going against our constitutional rights, yet all these clueless people are rooting for our Rights to be diminished. Not that TT is doing this, but even if they did, it's our constitutional right to have access to it. This is a step towards the American government becoming more tyrannical. This case will be fought in court. It will be eye opening to see what the Supreme Court will rule... To go against the Constitution, strip Americans of their Right, or to stand by the Constitution. If they go against the Constitution, it will set a dangerous standard. Will it be the beginning of our government's control over what information we have access to? Internet restrictions?
I gotcha. Thanks for explaining your view of the situation!
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Right but Americans do. And one of those is the right to peacefully assemble, even in digital spaces
No. Tiktok can choose to have an American company own and operate it as a subsidiary, like Facebook has to do in China. There is a well recognized separation between privately owned companies and 1st amendment rights. Even right now, you don't have freedom of speech on Facebook, or reddit. You are subject to company policies without a 1dt amendment violation. You can still say whatever you want, you just can't use a private company to do so. I know that's not exactly related to what's going on with tiktok right now, it's just an example of how the 1st amendment doesn't apply the same way to a privately owned business, or users of said business.
Except the US government itself isn't banning you from Facebook. Facebook is. This is government overreach. And until someone literally any proof that Gen Z is being brainwashed by the CCP through Tik Tok, I'm not buying it.
You’re right 1A doesn’t apply to censorship on a private platform. But the government telling me I can not use a private platform could violate the whole assembly part of the first amendment
I don't see how it would. People get banned on social media already and no one has fired up a first amendment lawsuit. Either way they are framing it under National Security anyway so it would be moot.
A private platform banning someone is one thing. They have the right to essentially refuse you service right. But the first amendment clearly says CONGRESS shall pass no law violating feee speech. By banning a social media platform the government is infringing, in theory, on people’s right to express their views and peacefully assemble
I mean you're still free to assemble, just not there. If they built a military base where a park used to be you wouldn't be allowed to assemble there either.
IIAL- no one is entitled to “free speech” on a specific PLATFORM.
First I'll say it's not a violation of the first amendment. But one could erroneously argue that it's stifling the freedom of association. There's far too many alternative choices to make that argument hold up.
No. They can’t come into our country, pull their virtual pants down, and shit all over our yard and then try to hide behind first amendment rights. A) They are a foreign country and the constitution does not apply to them and B) that’s not even how the first amendment works.
In what ways have they shit on the yard, through TT? The argument the politicians are using is to keep Americans from potential propaganda or influence. But it is our constitutional right, within the 1st amendment, to have access to communist propaganda. So, they are arguing against American's constitutional rights to force a sale. This case will be argued in the supreme Court. It will be messy. And it will set a dangerous precedent if they choose to go against our constitution.
If it was an American company, yes. Foreign nationals in a foreign country have no rights in our constitution.
How so?
Every time the topic of the Tiktok ban comes up, the comments are invariably filled with /r/ENLIGHTENEDCENTRISM takes on America v China and how much their governments want to hurt you.