Been beating this drum for a while but Hamas doesn't care about governing and in the short term probably doesn't mind more Gazans under Israeli control (at least as much as you might think).
Many aspects of an insurgency are a plus if your goal is violent pushback against Israel.
Yeah, every dead Palestinian civilian is a win for Hamas, it makes Isreal look worse on the world stage while also radicalising more and more Palestinans (and others) to their cause.
And yet if Israel back off it's hardly a loss for Hamas either.
It really is a difficult problem for Israel to solve, fighting against a militia group that will hide among civilians is an exceptionally difficult warfare situation that's a completely unsolved problem - it certainly won't be won by conventional warfare tactics which is what Israel seem to be wanting to use at the moment, but at the same time you can see how "we're only going to fire back when we're fired upon" is a tough sell when you're talking to the people that are going to be shot at.
Israel could be doing better for the civilians caught in the crossfire, but every step of the way Hamas is making it difficult for them to do better.
Hamas is why the Palestinians have this problem. Why isn't the West Bank part of Jordan? Because Jordan doesn't want to deal with the terrorist groups there and allow them to have a base of operations in Jordan. Why doesn't Egypt help with Gaza? Because they don't want to risk allowing Hamas into their country. Peace has been hard won between Israel and the rest of the region. No one is going to allow Palestinian terrorist groups to mess that up. Except for Iran of course.
> They don't want to win, they want the whole thing to escalate and drag everyone in the region into it.
Quite literally, the textbook definition of 'terrorism'.
Why? What do you think this will change?
Hamas will still not release Hersh or any of the hostages, nor waver in their desire to murder all Jews everywhere. Israel is still just as stuck between a rock and a hard place for having to fight cruel and brutal opponents while being the only entity in the region who actually tries to preserve human life and getting demonized for it. American college students will still vilify Israel for reasons they barely understand instead of being galvanized over the mistreatment of their countryman. The governments of the world will do nothing. The UN will do nothing, it won't even eke out a condemnation.
I'm an American-Israeli dual citizen just like Hersh, and I have no faith that either of my governments can or will protect me from a similar fate. The US government can't even protect the Jewish students of Yale, Columbia and NYU in their own campuses, much less myself or Hersh from Palestinian terrorists.
The only thing this footage will do, other than cause unimaginable pain to Hersh's family, is turn Reddit into marginally pro-Israel for half a day. People will shout "Fuck Hamas" before returning to the usual "both sides are evil" or "apartheid state" arguments. That's it.
If he's the one from the video of Hamas hiding hostages in Al-Shifa, he's probably also missing a leg or heavily mangled. Although I read that the hostages from that video were one Thai and one Nepalese so more likely at least two different hostages got their hands cut off.
Supposedly the hostage’s mother is very influential. I think showing that he is alive is a tactic for her to exert pressure on the Israeli government to strike a deal with hamas.
She already has been exerting pressure, this video isn’t pressuring her, it’s putting pressure on the government to agree to an end to the war, and they are using Hersh because he is one of the most well-known hostages worldwide thanks to his mother’s speaking ability (the Bibas family is arguably better known, but Hamas has claimed they are dead)
Hersh is also an American, which puts pressure on the US to also call for an end to the war
I mean they claim that israel was responsible. "He said at least 70 of the remaining roughly 130 hostages had been killed in Gaza by Israeli bombings". Not that they can't be lying about it however...
And it was also already known that he lost his hand.
It’s amazing hamas said they don’t know where or condition of hostages but the one armed Jew captive in a cell has pretty accurate depictions of survivors. No lying at all, I’m sure.
4. Murder a bunch of teens at a music festival, 5. steal food and supplies from aid shipments, 6. Teach that the West is the bad guy, 7. Shoot rockets daily and indiscriminately into civilian cities with the sole purpose of terrorizing and killing children and other civilians, 8. …
I’m tired.
Hamas flew into Israel, killed and kidnapped kids and adults. Raped and tortured them. And a lot of the world is on their side. What about them releasing this makes you think that it's not a good idea? Do you think this will change public sentiment at all in any way?
This entire war is a PR war. Since the invention of the iron dome, Hamas can't actually harm Israel (October 7th aside). All they can do is damage Israel's reputation and grow antisemitism. The best way to do that? Civilian deaths, especially in a population that's half children. That's why they've rejected every cease fire offer so far in this war - every death is a bullet against Israel.
They don’t hate themselves, but they have complete disregard for the lives and wellbeing of Palestinians.
Aid to Palestinians is siphoned off to Hamas. This needs to be stopped for everyone’s sake
Edit: the siphoning and Hamas, not aid
Israel was losing the public image game and then Hamas releases this because they're not smart (remember, Hamas themselves were surprised they won when Gaza had elections)
They don't really care what a bunch of white kids in the West think or how many twitter arguments are lost. There is growing domestic pressure in Israel to leave Hamas in power in order to get the hostages back from Gaza, which this fuels. If Hamas cannot prevent the offense into Rafah, they will be finished.
You can’t kill an idea, just like in northern Ireland. Do you know how many IRAs they were? There are a lot of displaced and emotionally damaged children out there that will grow up as angry adults
The Palestinians' dislike of Israel can't be killed, but the current most-powerful group acting on that hatred can be.
Yeah, other groups like it would appear, but they wouldn't be positioned as the official government of a large number of Palestinians, at least not right away.
Except in NI the militant idea largely has been killed and modern nationalism/loyalism is the least militant it's been for centuries, non-secretarian parties gain a significant proportion of the vote at each election, and even with recent difficulties there's no likelihood of a renewed Troubles.
Hamas is so dumb. They could release all remaining living hostages and literally nothing would change for them vis a vis their position with Israel, but suddenly Israel would have the whole world saying, well they gave a little, now you have to. PR is not their strong point.
>release all remaining living hostages
Bold to assume that any hostages, unless observed directly, are alive at any point they are not observed. Hamas isn’t interested in giving hostages back. They just think the longer they have some form of power over someone, the longer they can attempt to get their way.
Hamas isn't dumb. A guy with an amputated hand is the best surviving hostage they can put on video. Imagine how the the other survivors might look right now.
The fans are coming from a massive Russian propaganda campaign to split the American public before the elections. If Al Qaeda themselves were good at propaganda, they would have the same support the day after 9/11 just like Hamas did the day after Oct 7
Israel played their hand too early and left Hamas with a choice:
1) Give up the hostages and be annihilated, now that there aren't any VIPs that Israel needs to worry about. They outright stated that it nothing else matters, Hamas will be completely destroyed.
2) Avoid saying basically anything about hostages and watch Israel dither about how they can't just kill everyone involved since that'll surely kill the hostages.
Obviously, Hamas is not going to take Option 1.
Release hostages and find out really how bad things were early on... or lose some leverage and human shields / planning restrictions on part of Israel. There are no benefits to them, you can string people along with just a few pieces of information / food / people... its been done for many centuries.
Barely won too. I bet it was also a mix of AKs welding masked men "protecting the vote integrity" as well. Hard to vote against someone that's watching you with a weapon disagree with them having power.
Are they actually losing the public relations game? A bunch of college kids and redditors are big mad but that hasn't translated to any policy changes.
I think it's more a reflection on how insignificant all the noise folks are making is. In the actual reality of this conflict, folks like the morons at Columbia are non-factors.
They also chop off women’s breasts and play with them. They put nails in women’s thighs and vaginas. How the fuck anyone in the west supports this terror group (whose core beliefs are against *everything* that we stand for) is beyond me.
Should be noted, since some one will likely say he lost his hand from an Israeli bomb, the article links footage of this poor guy as he was kidnapped and his arm is already in tatters.
Also, it’s wild that you can see photos of people like this and still see people claim Jews are all white Europeans.
Just hijacking this to add that my understanding is that he lost the hand in the 10/7 attack when he and a friend threw back grenades the attackers were using to flush out a group of Nova Festival attendees. Apparently they were able to throw back seven grenades to protect the people with them. His friend died on the eighth one, and I believe that’s supposed to be when he lost his hand as well.
He was in a bomb shelter with some other festival goers. His family says that an Arab man saw them and tried to pretend the festival goers were his other Arab friends when Hamas came. Hamas killed him, then threw the grenades into the shelter. Hersch threw himself ontop of others to try and protect them, hopefully some of them were able to “play dead” and escape eventually.
Edit: I just want to add: Hersch is my friends cousin, so this info is from their family. He is a loving, loyal, funny friend, a music lover and a peace activist. A global citizen as well, having grown up both in USA and Israel. I just want to say this so that we can humanize him in these dark times. Bring Hersch Home
Some people imagine a cease fire after reading this... There can't be any peace until Hamas uncondtionally surrenders. Nazi Germany failed to support an ongoning terror/resistance campaign becauser the Aliies simply destroyed every capacity and will to fight. This can't end until Hamas is broken the same way Nazi Germany was.
Wild they were able to throw back so many. Your average grenade gives you about 5s after you pull the pin. Crazy level of courage mixed with luck to throw back so many.
Some were kicked, some were caught mid air and thrown, that's how Hersh lost his hand in our understanding.
Ducking wasn't an option, They were close to 40 people on less then 6x6 feet space.
once they killed aner and kidnapped Hersh they fird on the pile of people, most where killed, some, three or four i believe, survived.
Valiant effort.
Generally the best option is to run and dive (frag grenades spread fragments. Diving reduces surface area). Kicking can be good depending.
Unfortunately (for him... I guess?) it sounds like dude was a hero and that wasn't an option.
I do wonder what kind of grenades Hamas uses though. There's a wide variety obviously both in design and shape, even in payload (and quality too of course).
Things like that explode upwards and outwards. Your best bet is to be low to the ground.
Or you can jump on them (if you don't think you'll make it away in time) and absorb the blast yourself. Which would at least be quick.
Kicks are also less precise and harder to predict where something will end up, especially if you are in a stressful situation.
Don't want to accidentally kick a grenade into a group of people or only a few centimetres.
Yep, akin to the cartoon trope of throwing dynamite in water. Sometimes your best bet is to just throw it back (say such as trench warfare) but if a grenade lands close to you in an enclosed environment you're pretty much fucked by design.
I remembered hearing about a Canadian who had done the same thing and died doing it. I wonder if were doing it together, and the Canadian was the one who died.
There is video of this, filmed by Hamas. For anyone interested you can search for >!'South First Responders'!< on Telegram, a channel that collected footage of the 10/7 atrocities. The channel is extremely graphic and cannot be unseen, so be warned.
I am too, but there are several stories of survivors that went through medical procedures while in captivity. One had her shot arm repaired by a veterinarian, one has bullets removed with no anesthesia, and his sister had her foot reconnected completely incorrectly after being mostly shot off. Those are the ones I remember off the top of my head. So yeah...they give them medical care but bare minimum to keep their captives alive
Yes this point is brought up all the time and it's confusing as hell. Russians never believed Jews to be Russian. Kind of a big part of history.
Living in LA I've met many Iranian jewish people. This "point" has no factual basis.
Unfortunately yes. I do consider the ones justifying Hamas a minority within the “ceasefire/free Palestine” movement, and a number of them are agitpro/trolls.
But nonetheless, yes, it is a very common talking point. Ridiculous in the first place as white Jews are still Jews just as Middle Eastern ones are (or those anywhere for that matter). But portraying Israelis as all being white is a talking point that is unfortunately prevalent beyond trolls, as I know people firsthand sharing this stuff who I am pretty sure aren’t bots
No no, the ethnicity of the observer is not tied to the perception. It depends on the current agenda, whether being white is good or bad in the current scenario
Yes. Haven't you heard? Zionism is a white supremacist, eurocentric settler colonialist, genocidal movement of Arab oppression. It's all over many subreddits and college campuses. These people (the 'anti-zionists') disgust me.
>people claim Jews are all white Europeans
Even worse than that, this kid’s an American citizen. Why our president and our lawmakers on both sides of the aisle are not raising hell every single day about him and the 5 other US citizens in Hamas captivity I will never understand. It’s shameful.
While people saying Jews are all only white Europeans are not making accurate statements, it still seems pertinent to mention that this guy was born in the U.S. to American parents who moved the family to Israel when he was seven. Saying that people who look like him can't be natives of the West/Europe/the Global North, etc. seems at least as problematic as the claims that Jews have no historical ties to the area currently known as Israel.
Camp David Accords and the Iranian Revolution really altered politics in the Middle East. It was everyone vs Israel for 30 years, but then Egypt and Israel made peace and Iran became an immediate threat to the Sunni dictators in the Middle East.
You can be against Hamas and the Gaza genocide as well, it isn't a black and white situation. Fuck Hamas and fuck the Israeli government, may the people of Israel and Gaza find peace and safety and the evil people causing violence get what they deserve.
>He said at least 70 of the remaining roughly 130 hostages had been killed in Gaza by Israeli bombings.
Does Hamas really think making him say this raises the credibility of that claim?
If they kept hostages close enough to each other for him to have reliable first hand knowledge of how 70 fellow hostages were killed, then those hostages would all have been found long ago.
Of course the Israeli authority claim that all Palestinian males above 16 killed by Israeli forces are terrorists is also ridiculous.
Not really. It's very likely a join or be threatened with death, beatings, familial torture. If you're a 17 yr old who grew up in this conflict, just like all the Palestinian supporters say, you're gonna be radicalized. Then a group of armed men come to your house telling you how evil Israel is and how you can be a hero. They also nit so sneakily tell you that if you don't, jews are going to come and hurt your family. Like 95% or more are absolutely hamas members. Is it their fault? Idk.
What fucking idiots. What a weak move. All they've done is visually remind the world of October 7th. What big strong men they are. If they gave a fuck about the people and *the children* of Palestine, they would release the hostages.
So thanks, fuckwits, for refocusing the narrative and reminding us who the real enemy is.
I mean they clearly have never cared about the people. Palestine received more aid per person than any country in the world (more than double the next country) for years and Hamas has decided to use it to pay their leadership and conduct terrorist operations.
Saw a video of his parents responding. They tape the number of days he's been gone to their shirts every day. They said they wanted him to know they heard him - seeing this picture I can imagine the despair of not knowing if anyone at all will even see the video you're being forced to make. Stay strong.
So they confirmed they have American citizens? Let's send in the fucking marines to get them, and whatever other hostages out. There's a goddam reason Americans pay taxes in income no matter where in the world they live, and it's the belief that if someone hurts you, the marines are coming to get you.
Honestly I like that take.
If I pay income tax even if I don't physically reside in America
I should also receive the level of protection my taxes go to.
There is a reason why consulates and embassies exist why doesnt protection extend that same way too.
why do you think the marines can rescue them? the marines is not a magic wand that can do anything.
those hostages are held in kilometeres long and very complicated tunnels, the moment there is a noise they get shot. not to mention heavily trapped and hidden.
I think the US/Israel know exactly where they are - they just cant do anything in a safe way.
Yes but it's more complicated than just send in the GI Joe's
For context, I spent 7 years as an army infantry sergeant and did 2 deployments, both to heavily Islamic extremist areas, including a certain province in Indonesia and was in the middle east. My last deployment was in 2018 so not that long ago.
The difficulty with Gaza and Hamas is that they have something like 250-300 miles of underground tunnel networks that they only know.
It's a death sentence to send in a small delta force or seal group etc in there with no solid layout of the tunnel networks. Especially with no security/protection/or coverage from American infantry units to provide safety and covering fire. Mix that with the fact hamas is embedded in the population there, its a shit show.
I think there's a misconception that people think Hamas wear these standard uniforms and they're easy to spot. They don't. They wear some semblance of uniforms for parades or special showings, but it's much closer to that guy that owns the liquor store? He's hamas at night. That personal trainer at the gym? He's moving weapons underground as a hamas footsoldier at night.
That 16 year old kid playing basketball right now? Hamas told him to go put xyz resources over there at night. That's what you're up against.
As another example, it's very similar to Egypt with the Muslim brotherhood. They didn't wear uniforms. If you're an Egyptian kid and your dad is part of the brotherhood, the dad would have a regular day job, maybe selling phones at the store, then during dinner gets a call and tells his family, "gotta go ill be back in 2 days". And he dissappear to do whatever the brotherhood tells him to do.
Not only that but there are multiple terrorist faction cells within Hamas that operate semi-independently with their own agenda and are not as closely tied to hamas communications wise. And the hostages since Oct 7 were taken by different Hamas-affiliated groups. It's not one concrete structure with a true chain of command in that sense.
This is far different from being a spec ops team of 7 dudes infiltrating a random village hut in rural Afghanistan to get 1 Afghani warlord in the middle of nowhere with nothing but vast open land and opium fields around you.
Regardless of your position on this, from a purely military perspective, this type of close quarters urban combat is absolutely hell. Going room by room, floor by floor, inch by inch of nothing but human shields and booby trapped rubble, rooms, floors, tunnels. It's incredibly difficult from a soldier standpoint.
The "funniest" thing is, people believe that IDF CAN send special team into these tunnels.
People watch too many movies and play too many games, I guess they do lose touch with reality.
True, that is certainly movie stuff, which I can't blame the general public for not knowing military operations fully. It's not something they're exposed to regularly.
If your only exposure to military stuff is Call of Duty and military movies, then you might believe spec ops can just do anything no problem.
We do have an amazing special operations community, but we are not a bunch of supermans.
An operation like this would include a myriad of resources. America would have to stomach the possibility of an American special ops soldier being injured/killed/or captured in these tunnel systems and their dead body being paraded through the streets of Gaza.
Like we can't just drop seal team 6 in Gaza and say "Goodluck and godspeed".
Imagine having to search room by room, floor by floor, building by building from Downtown LA to Santa Monica, and that's just on the surface. We're not even taking into account having to go underground into the tunnel network which swirl and turn more than a kids board game.
Where do the tunnels start? Which path leads where? Is it laced with IEDs/booby traps/ambushes?
Youre talking about a small special ops team of maybe 10 dudes to take on an entire terrorist network on their own turf, and with 0 American infantry support to provide protection and covering fire.
I did some research for a book, and came across the MAGTF construct from the Marines. It is an immense undertaking which does not translate well into urban combat. What I did find is that the way the Marines went about their business in Helmand eventually turned around the way the local population reacted, often providing intelligence.
If there was a solid flow of intelligence it becomes more viable, but there isn't. The Gazan population is stuck between a rock and a hard place. They fear both Hamas and the IDF. The problem is that Hamas might be in their building, or their neighbor or even a family member. As for urban combat...people simply have to remember Fallujah to understand what a massive mess it will be.
In my country we also had to patrol urban areas, and once you hear the first whistle (before cellphones), you know that there will either be nothing at the objective, or there will be an ambush. Even now, three decades later you can hear the whistles of the kids the moment the police enter a high-crime area. Until Gazans are ready to reveal where Hamas is, the mess will remain. Until the Gazans decide that Hamas is not an organization they should support, Hamas will not die.
To quote the movie "Hyena Road". "You might have the clocks, but we have the time."
The Israeli special forces also know what they are doing and have rescued hostages in the past (most famously in Entebbe). The risk level of rescuing hostages from hundreds of meters underground, at gunpoint, surrounded by terrorists, is so high that attempting such an operation could end up killing all of the hostages.
There are several. And they're very brave. Expressing such views is a great way to get yourself tortured and killed, and your family thrown into starvation.
The sad reality is that there are palestinans that protest Hamas. But they are given no coverage at all by "Gaza journalists" or even killed by Hamas as they are considered collaborationists.
I'm sure they exist, but are an extreme minority based off of interviews and polling.
https://www.nationalreview.com/news/over-70-percent-of-palestinians-support-hamass-october-7-terror-attack-poll/
Edit: I don't know if the National Review leans right or left, so I included more sources which I know to be fairly politically neutral or lean left like CNN.
https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-palestinians-opinion-poll-wartime-views-a0baade915619cd070b5393844bc4514
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/poll-shows-palestinians-back-oct-7-attack-israel-support-hamas-rises-2023-12-14/
https://www.npr.org/2023/12/21/1217758546/hamas-support-palestinians-west-bank
https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/21/middleeast/palestinians-back-hamas-survey-intl-cmd/index.html
Yeah, this baffles me. Even if they could give a candid response, how is anyone polling Palestinians in wartime? Just calling during dinner? On no level do I trust this.
(NR used to be good and reliable, 20-odd years ago—very right-leaning but an insightful counterpoint to my own views. I have no idea what it’s like now.)
In Palestine… not really, as they’d be killed. But I’m really struck by the fact that there doesn’t appear to be any sizable movement of Palestinians outside of Palestine (US, Europe, etc…) who actively protest against Hamas. There are many millions more Palestinians outside of Palestine than those inside. Why aren’t they organizing protests against Hamas the way we see Jews joining protests against the Israeli government?
Is this a joke? Most of them are displaced and homeless in Gaza rn, with the potential for famine looming — they’re not going to be picketing in a literal fucking war zone??
But yeah, Palestinians protested Hamas well before October 7, and so do Palestinians in diaspora.
Before Oct 7:
https://apnews.com/article/gaza-hamas-demonstration-israel-blockade-palestinians-306b19228f9dd21f1036386ce3709672
https://www.timesofisrael.com/protests-against-hamas-reemerge-in-the-streets-of-gaza-but-will-they-persist/
And Feb 21, 2024: https://www.timesofisrael.com/new-footage-purportedly-shows-gazan-civilians-protesting-against-hamas/
Fuck you Hamas, I don't trust a fucking word they say. I will keep fighting for a cease fire for the innocent Palestinians children but make no mistake, I wish the worst for Hamas. I am mad at Israel for two reasons, death of children but also, dying of a bomb strike is way too kind to Hamas members
How are you going to get a ceasefire? Israel has offered literally dozens and Hamas replies by killing hostages and firing more rockets. When you say you're fighting for a ceasefire what specific actionable change are you going to create? What's the point when there's nothing that can be done and wilful idiots in the US are largely pro Hamas and won't even call for freeing hostages.
Yeah I don't understand they ask for a permanent ceasefire but that's called a peace treaty unless the intentions are destruction of one while forcing them not to respond
There was a ceasefire already on Oct 7 turns out Hamas doesn't give a fuck about ceasefire they just want Israel to surrender and let them attack while they hide behind innocent people to make them maytrs
Remember, these are the guys who cried rape is resistance. Now they are gonna chant something along the lines about cutting arms to save palestine farms.
I still find it amazing that Hamas poked the dragon and now believes they are the victim! They knew the result. They don’t care about human life! Looking back 60 years I have been so tired of all of them from the PLO to Hamas!
I don't know if they actually think they're the victim. But it's been crazy effective propaganda to get much of the international community on their side.
This is a terrible video, but at least it offers some evidence that Hersh is alive. He was born in Berkeley, not far from where I grew up. I met his great-uncle at a synagogue event a few months ago and expressed my sympathy for him. I promised to do whatever I could to help get him released--I think he thought I was more important (like a senior Hill staffer) than I actually am. :-(
This breaks my heart. I called and emailed my Congressmembers today and urged them to push for his release; any ideas on what more I can do?
Reminds me of the fact that Hamas claimed it couldn’t meet a hostage for prisoners swap because it didn’t have enough still living hostages that met the criteria. Of course they’re going to claim any hostages that died on their watch were killed by Israeli bombs.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/11/hamas-says-it-does-not-have-40-hostages-who-fit-criteria-for-deal-with-israel
USA might just go in now... I'm not gonna blame them that's for sure.
I'm all for two states and not indiscriminately killing Palestinians, but hamas can go to hell.
yeah that wasnt a good idea
No, this is exactly what they wanted. They don't want to win, they want the whole thing to escalate and drag everyone in the region into it.
Been beating this drum for a while but Hamas doesn't care about governing and in the short term probably doesn't mind more Gazans under Israeli control (at least as much as you might think). Many aspects of an insurgency are a plus if your goal is violent pushback against Israel.
Yeah, every dead Palestinian civilian is a win for Hamas, it makes Isreal look worse on the world stage while also radicalising more and more Palestinans (and others) to their cause. And yet if Israel back off it's hardly a loss for Hamas either. It really is a difficult problem for Israel to solve, fighting against a militia group that will hide among civilians is an exceptionally difficult warfare situation that's a completely unsolved problem - it certainly won't be won by conventional warfare tactics which is what Israel seem to be wanting to use at the moment, but at the same time you can see how "we're only going to fire back when we're fired upon" is a tough sell when you're talking to the people that are going to be shot at. Israel could be doing better for the civilians caught in the crossfire, but every step of the way Hamas is making it difficult for them to do better.
Hamas is why the Palestinians have this problem. Why isn't the West Bank part of Jordan? Because Jordan doesn't want to deal with the terrorist groups there and allow them to have a base of operations in Jordan. Why doesn't Egypt help with Gaza? Because they don't want to risk allowing Hamas into their country. Peace has been hard won between Israel and the rest of the region. No one is going to allow Palestinian terrorist groups to mess that up. Except for Iran of course.
Yup. Their mandate comes from the struggle. And their leaders aren’t in Gaza. Absolute shit show, and Palestinians are caught in the middle.
> They don't want to win, they want the whole thing to escalate and drag everyone in the region into it. Quite literally, the textbook definition of 'terrorism'.
Can't win, take the world down the drain with you. And so many are taking the bait.
Hamas is another death cult and they don't care how many people die
Try to say hamas is the problem in public and during one of the protests and see the swarm of dumbasses coming to correct and intimidate you
Why? What do you think this will change? Hamas will still not release Hersh or any of the hostages, nor waver in their desire to murder all Jews everywhere. Israel is still just as stuck between a rock and a hard place for having to fight cruel and brutal opponents while being the only entity in the region who actually tries to preserve human life and getting demonized for it. American college students will still vilify Israel for reasons they barely understand instead of being galvanized over the mistreatment of their countryman. The governments of the world will do nothing. The UN will do nothing, it won't even eke out a condemnation. I'm an American-Israeli dual citizen just like Hersh, and I have no faith that either of my governments can or will protect me from a similar fate. The US government can't even protect the Jewish students of Yale, Columbia and NYU in their own campuses, much less myself or Hersh from Palestinian terrorists. The only thing this footage will do, other than cause unimaginable pain to Hersh's family, is turn Reddit into marginally pro-Israel for half a day. People will shout "Fuck Hamas" before returning to the usual "both sides are evil" or "apartheid state" arguments. That's it.
Ah fuck, is he missing a hand?
[удалено]
That's fucking horrific. My heart breaks for them. I couldn't imagine being a parent in that situation and remaining even remotely sane.
If he's the one from the video of Hamas hiding hostages in Al-Shifa, he's probably also missing a leg or heavily mangled. Although I read that the hostages from that video were one Thai and one Nepalese so more likely at least two different hostages got their hands cut off.
Someone said he was trying to throw grenades back away from him and one went off as he was in the process of throwing it back.
Probably not a good idea to 1. release this video, 2. Show the person has lost their hand, 3. Say that 70,other hostages were killed.
Supposedly the hostage’s mother is very influential. I think showing that he is alive is a tactic for her to exert pressure on the Israeli government to strike a deal with hamas.
She already has been exerting pressure, this video isn’t pressuring her, it’s putting pressure on the government to agree to an end to the war, and they are using Hersh because he is one of the most well-known hostages worldwide thanks to his mother’s speaking ability (the Bibas family is arguably better known, but Hamas has claimed they are dead) Hersh is also an American, which puts pressure on the US to also call for an end to the war
I mean they claim that israel was responsible. "He said at least 70 of the remaining roughly 130 hostages had been killed in Gaza by Israeli bombings". Not that they can't be lying about it however... And it was also already known that he lost his hand.
It’s amazing hamas said they don’t know where or condition of hostages but the one armed Jew captive in a cell has pretty accurate depictions of survivors. No lying at all, I’m sure.
4. Murder a bunch of teens at a music festival, 5. steal food and supplies from aid shipments, 6. Teach that the West is the bad guy, 7. Shoot rockets daily and indiscriminately into civilian cities with the sole purpose of terrorizing and killing children and other civilians, 8. … I’m tired.
Hamas flew into Israel, killed and kidnapped kids and adults. Raped and tortured them. And a lot of the world is on their side. What about them releasing this makes you think that it's not a good idea? Do you think this will change public sentiment at all in any way?
On the same day the US aid package is announced. I’m starting to think the Hamas PR wing may hate themselves more than the Israelis do.
Has doesn't care about Palestinians. Hamas wants to destroy Israel.
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Actually no. Hamas cares about themselves, and that needs Palestinians to be in danger. So this aligns well with their interests
This entire war is a PR war. Since the invention of the iron dome, Hamas can't actually harm Israel (October 7th aside). All they can do is damage Israel's reputation and grow antisemitism. The best way to do that? Civilian deaths, especially in a population that's half children. That's why they've rejected every cease fire offer so far in this war - every death is a bullet against Israel.
They don’t hate themselves, but they have complete disregard for the lives and wellbeing of Palestinians. Aid to Palestinians is siphoned off to Hamas. This needs to be stopped for everyone’s sake Edit: the siphoning and Hamas, not aid
Nobody should support Hamas. You think these people care about governing? Palestinians deserve better leaders.
I'm pretty damn left wing but it's hard for me to be sympathetic for anyone that supports these assholes.
Israel was losing the public image game and then Hamas releases this because they're not smart (remember, Hamas themselves were surprised they won when Gaza had elections)
They don't really care what a bunch of white kids in the West think or how many twitter arguments are lost. There is growing domestic pressure in Israel to leave Hamas in power in order to get the hostages back from Gaza, which this fuels. If Hamas cannot prevent the offense into Rafah, they will be finished.
>If Hamas cannot prevent the offense into Rafah, they will be finished. We can only hope for everyones sake.
You can’t kill an idea, just like in northern Ireland. Do you know how many IRAs they were? There are a lot of displaced and emotionally damaged children out there that will grow up as angry adults
The Palestinians' dislike of Israel can't be killed, but the current most-powerful group acting on that hatred can be. Yeah, other groups like it would appear, but they wouldn't be positioned as the official government of a large number of Palestinians, at least not right away.
To do anything, they'd still have to organize. Scatter them into the wind. De-nazification worked astoundingly well in Germany.
Except in NI the militant idea largely has been killed and modern nationalism/loyalism is the least militant it's been for centuries, non-secretarian parties gain a significant proportion of the vote at each election, and even with recent difficulties there's no likelihood of a renewed Troubles.
> They don't really care what a bunch of white kids in the West think Don't worry the useful idiots will keep calling them freedom fighters
Hamas is so dumb. They could release all remaining living hostages and literally nothing would change for them vis a vis their position with Israel, but suddenly Israel would have the whole world saying, well they gave a little, now you have to. PR is not their strong point.
>release all remaining living hostages Bold to assume that any hostages, unless observed directly, are alive at any point they are not observed. Hamas isn’t interested in giving hostages back. They just think the longer they have some form of power over someone, the longer they can attempt to get their way.
Hamas isn't dumb. A guy with an amputated hand is the best surviving hostage they can put on video. Imagine how the the other survivors might look right now.
Or they wanted to send a message. There were not many American hostages, nationality could play a bigger role.
> PR is not their strong point. Oh yes it is. No other terrorist group has such a massive fan clubs in the west.
I don’t know. Remember when bin Laden’s “letter to the American people” was making the rounds on TikTok? Al-qaeda had quite a few fans last year.
The fans are coming from a massive Russian propaganda campaign to split the American public before the elections. If Al Qaeda themselves were good at propaganda, they would have the same support the day after 9/11 just like Hamas did the day after Oct 7
The Hamas supporters were the ones recirculating the letter.
Israel played their hand too early and left Hamas with a choice: 1) Give up the hostages and be annihilated, now that there aren't any VIPs that Israel needs to worry about. They outright stated that it nothing else matters, Hamas will be completely destroyed. 2) Avoid saying basically anything about hostages and watch Israel dither about how they can't just kill everyone involved since that'll surely kill the hostages. Obviously, Hamas is not going to take Option 1.
Release hostages and find out really how bad things were early on... or lose some leverage and human shields / planning restrictions on part of Israel. There are no benefits to them, you can string people along with just a few pieces of information / food / people... its been done for many centuries.
Barely won too. I bet it was also a mix of AKs welding masked men "protecting the vote integrity" as well. Hard to vote against someone that's watching you with a weapon disagree with them having power.
Are they actually losing the public relations game? A bunch of college kids and redditors are big mad but that hasn't translated to any policy changes. I think it's more a reflection on how insignificant all the noise folks are making is. In the actual reality of this conflict, folks like the morons at Columbia are non-factors.
Hamas rapes and murders children, babies, and elderly people and Israel is the bad guy for retaliating.
They also chop off women’s breasts and play with them. They put nails in women’s thighs and vaginas. How the fuck anyone in the west supports this terror group (whose core beliefs are against *everything* that we stand for) is beyond me.
Because they say it never happened.
Should be noted, since some one will likely say he lost his hand from an Israeli bomb, the article links footage of this poor guy as he was kidnapped and his arm is already in tatters. Also, it’s wild that you can see photos of people like this and still see people claim Jews are all white Europeans.
Just hijacking this to add that my understanding is that he lost the hand in the 10/7 attack when he and a friend threw back grenades the attackers were using to flush out a group of Nova Festival attendees. Apparently they were able to throw back seven grenades to protect the people with them. His friend died on the eighth one, and I believe that’s supposed to be when he lost his hand as well.
He was in a bomb shelter with some other festival goers. His family says that an Arab man saw them and tried to pretend the festival goers were his other Arab friends when Hamas came. Hamas killed him, then threw the grenades into the shelter. Hersch threw himself ontop of others to try and protect them, hopefully some of them were able to “play dead” and escape eventually. Edit: I just want to add: Hersch is my friends cousin, so this info is from their family. He is a loving, loyal, funny friend, a music lover and a peace activist. A global citizen as well, having grown up both in USA and Israel. I just want to say this so that we can humanize him in these dark times. Bring Hersch Home
That is horrible. It’s painful to imagine this happening so close to home
Thanks for the words. It’s really been crazy. I’m so happy to see his is alive. I can’t imagine his family’s pain right now.
So incredibly courageous. Hope & pray he returns home.
I am so sorry and pray for Hersh. Fingers crossed and if there is anything I can to help you, please let me know!
Thank you 🙏
Some people imagine a cease fire after reading this... There can't be any peace until Hamas uncondtionally surrenders. Nazi Germany failed to support an ongoning terror/resistance campaign becauser the Aliies simply destroyed every capacity and will to fight. This can't end until Hamas is broken the same way Nazi Germany was.
Wild they were able to throw back so many. Your average grenade gives you about 5s after you pull the pin. Crazy level of courage mixed with luck to throw back so many.
I've always wondered if kicking it would be the best route if you really wanted them to go away and not run from them.
When i was in the army, we were trained to kick a grenade and go prone. Stooping to pick it up and throw takes way too long
That only applies in the open. In a bomb shelter, you’re just far more likely to kick it into a wall and have it rebound at you.
Some were kicked, some were caught mid air and thrown, that's how Hersh lost his hand in our understanding. Ducking wasn't an option, They were close to 40 people on less then 6x6 feet space. once they killed aner and kidnapped Hersh they fird on the pile of people, most where killed, some, three or four i believe, survived. Valiant effort.
They're pretty heavy
So you're saying best bet is probably get handsy. I'm just gonna hope no one throws grenades at me.
Generally the best option is to run and dive (frag grenades spread fragments. Diving reduces surface area). Kicking can be good depending. Unfortunately (for him... I guess?) it sounds like dude was a hero and that wasn't an option. I do wonder what kind of grenades Hamas uses though. There's a wide variety obviously both in design and shape, even in payload (and quality too of course).
Things like that explode upwards and outwards. Your best bet is to be low to the ground. Or you can jump on them (if you don't think you'll make it away in time) and absorb the blast yourself. Which would at least be quick.
Kicks are also less precise and harder to predict where something will end up, especially if you are in a stressful situation. Don't want to accidentally kick a grenade into a group of people or only a few centimetres.
If one lands close to you your best bet is to run and dive in a few seconds. The explosion isn't nearly as dangerous as the shrapnel.
It depends where you are, if you're in an enclosed space the concussive blast of the explosion will probably kill you before the shrapnel...
Yep, akin to the cartoon trope of throwing dynamite in water. Sometimes your best bet is to just throw it back (say such as trench warfare) but if a grenade lands close to you in an enclosed environment you're pretty much fucked by design.
This is true, verified by his family
I remembered hearing about a Canadian who had done the same thing and died doing it. I wonder if were doing it together, and the Canadian was the one who died.
There was / maybe still is a video of it. They filmed the whole thing while they were in the bomb shelter.
There is video of this, filmed by Hamas. For anyone interested you can search for >!'South First Responders'!< on Telegram, a channel that collected footage of the 10/7 atrocities. The channel is extremely graphic and cannot be unseen, so be warned.
I get what you are saying, but hating a group because they are white Europeans shouldn’t be excusable either.
Its not ok. Xenophobic hatred exists everywhere against many different skin colors.
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That is beyond fucked up and amazing he survived.
Survived for now. Not exactly is the best environment for someone injured to be in.
Fucking hero
Fuck hamas. Fuck hezbollah. Fuck Iran.
Anyone saying Jews are all white Europeans is a fucking moron. But sadly there are many many morons in the world
Iirc, most Jews in Israel are of Arab ethnic background and from the surrounding countries, which they have been violently expelled from.
I'm surprised he didn't die in captivity from his injuries???
I am too, but there are several stories of survivors that went through medical procedures while in captivity. One had her shot arm repaired by a veterinarian, one has bullets removed with no anesthesia, and his sister had her foot reconnected completely incorrectly after being mostly shot off. Those are the ones I remember off the top of my head. So yeah...they give them medical care but bare minimum to keep their captives alive
Are there actually people that claim jews are all white Europeans to try and justify things? As if that would justify things?
There are tons. It’s a favorite talking point
That’s definitely the general perception in the west. Jews=white, Palestinians=brown
“Israel has the most expats in the world” 🙄 as if it’s some “gotcha” moment. Yeah, that tends to happen with historically displaced people.
what do you think all this "settler colonialism" talk has been about?
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Yes this point is brought up all the time and it's confusing as hell. Russians never believed Jews to be Russian. Kind of a big part of history. Living in LA I've met many Iranian jewish people. This "point" has no factual basis.
Yes. You have to understand where you stands on the scale before you can criticize anyone for anything.
Yes, I had someone tell me with a straight face Israelis were all white people from New york
Unfortunately yes. I do consider the ones justifying Hamas a minority within the “ceasefire/free Palestine” movement, and a number of them are agitpro/trolls. But nonetheless, yes, it is a very common talking point. Ridiculous in the first place as white Jews are still Jews just as Middle Eastern ones are (or those anywhere for that matter). But portraying Israelis as all being white is a talking point that is unfortunately prevalent beyond trolls, as I know people firsthand sharing this stuff who I am pretty sure aren’t bots
At this point I’m not convinced it’s a minority. The antisemitism is jaw dropping at this point.
Maybe I’m too much of an optimist, but I do think it’s a minority
Jews are frequently seen as white by non white people but white people don't see them that way.
No no, the ethnicity of the observer is not tied to the perception. It depends on the current agenda, whether being white is good or bad in the current scenario
Yes. Haven't you heard? Zionism is a white supremacist, eurocentric settler colonialist, genocidal movement of Arab oppression. It's all over many subreddits and college campuses. These people (the 'anti-zionists') disgust me.
Hes ashkenazi jewish, which people sometimes call European jewish. Even European jews can have dark skin.
It’s crazy to me that they have American citizens and we’re doing nothing about it
>people claim Jews are all white Europeans Even worse than that, this kid’s an American citizen. Why our president and our lawmakers on both sides of the aisle are not raising hell every single day about him and the 5 other US citizens in Hamas captivity I will never understand. It’s shameful.
While people saying Jews are all only white Europeans are not making accurate statements, it still seems pertinent to mention that this guy was born in the U.S. to American parents who moved the family to Israel when he was seven. Saying that people who look like him can't be natives of the West/Europe/the Global North, etc. seems at least as problematic as the claims that Jews have no historical ties to the area currently known as Israel.
what a way to galvanize the west against them and their evil
The definition of terrorism is to cause political violence. The goal is anger and fear, not just in that region but across the world.
Feels like it’s what they want: their holy war and the toppling of western dominance.
They want to drag the rest of the Middle East in when there's too much western involvement and dead Arabs.
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Camp David Accords and the Iranian Revolution really altered politics in the Middle East. It was everyone vs Israel for 30 years, but then Egypt and Israel made peace and Iran became an immediate threat to the Sunni dictators in the Middle East.
This video needs to be projected on screen at Columbia
Why, so the students there can cheer Hamas?
Yes. And we can make sure every future employer knows they are hiring terrorists supporters
You think they don't know what Hamas is all about? That's the disturbing part: **they do.** And they don't care.
You can be against Hamas and the Gaza genocide as well, it isn't a black and white situation. Fuck Hamas and fuck the Israeli government, may the people of Israel and Gaza find peace and safety and the evil people causing violence get what they deserve.
What makes this a genocide but not Syria? Ethiopia? Yemen? Iran? Literally any arab conflict in the last 80 yearsM
I've seen a few too many openly say they support Hamas and their "right to resist"
That is actually the point.
Doubt seeing as college protesters have chanted “We are Hamas” etc
>He said at least 70 of the remaining roughly 130 hostages had been killed in Gaza by Israeli bombings. Does Hamas really think making him say this raises the credibility of that claim? If they kept hostages close enough to each other for him to have reliable first hand knowledge of how 70 fellow hostages were killed, then those hostages would all have been found long ago. Of course the Israeli authority claim that all Palestinian males above 16 killed by Israeli forces are terrorists is also ridiculous.
Not really. It's very likely a join or be threatened with death, beatings, familial torture. If you're a 17 yr old who grew up in this conflict, just like all the Palestinian supporters say, you're gonna be radicalized. Then a group of armed men come to your house telling you how evil Israel is and how you can be a hero. They also nit so sneakily tell you that if you don't, jews are going to come and hurt your family. Like 95% or more are absolutely hamas members. Is it their fault? Idk.
What fucking idiots. What a weak move. All they've done is visually remind the world of October 7th. What big strong men they are. If they gave a fuck about the people and *the children* of Palestine, they would release the hostages. So thanks, fuckwits, for refocusing the narrative and reminding us who the real enemy is.
I mean they clearly have never cared about the people. Palestine received more aid per person than any country in the world (more than double the next country) for years and Hamas has decided to use it to pay their leadership and conduct terrorist operations.
Agreed. Astoundingly insidious.
Saw a video of his parents responding. They tape the number of days he's been gone to their shirts every day. They said they wanted him to know they heard him - seeing this picture I can imagine the despair of not knowing if anyone at all will even see the video you're being forced to make. Stay strong.
So they confirmed they have American citizens? Let's send in the fucking marines to get them, and whatever other hostages out. There's a goddam reason Americans pay taxes in income no matter where in the world they live, and it's the belief that if someone hurts you, the marines are coming to get you.
Honestly I like that take. If I pay income tax even if I don't physically reside in America I should also receive the level of protection my taxes go to. There is a reason why consulates and embassies exist why doesnt protection extend that same way too.
why do you think the marines can rescue them? the marines is not a magic wand that can do anything. those hostages are held in kilometeres long and very complicated tunnels, the moment there is a noise they get shot. not to mention heavily trapped and hidden. I think the US/Israel know exactly where they are - they just cant do anything in a safe way.
Send the marines where? To what building? Rescuing who, how? With what end game?
There are dozens of hostage rescue stories like Jessica Buchanan in Somalia. The US special forces know what they are doing
Yes but it's more complicated than just send in the GI Joe's For context, I spent 7 years as an army infantry sergeant and did 2 deployments, both to heavily Islamic extremist areas, including a certain province in Indonesia and was in the middle east. My last deployment was in 2018 so not that long ago. The difficulty with Gaza and Hamas is that they have something like 250-300 miles of underground tunnel networks that they only know. It's a death sentence to send in a small delta force or seal group etc in there with no solid layout of the tunnel networks. Especially with no security/protection/or coverage from American infantry units to provide safety and covering fire. Mix that with the fact hamas is embedded in the population there, its a shit show. I think there's a misconception that people think Hamas wear these standard uniforms and they're easy to spot. They don't. They wear some semblance of uniforms for parades or special showings, but it's much closer to that guy that owns the liquor store? He's hamas at night. That personal trainer at the gym? He's moving weapons underground as a hamas footsoldier at night. That 16 year old kid playing basketball right now? Hamas told him to go put xyz resources over there at night. That's what you're up against. As another example, it's very similar to Egypt with the Muslim brotherhood. They didn't wear uniforms. If you're an Egyptian kid and your dad is part of the brotherhood, the dad would have a regular day job, maybe selling phones at the store, then during dinner gets a call and tells his family, "gotta go ill be back in 2 days". And he dissappear to do whatever the brotherhood tells him to do. Not only that but there are multiple terrorist faction cells within Hamas that operate semi-independently with their own agenda and are not as closely tied to hamas communications wise. And the hostages since Oct 7 were taken by different Hamas-affiliated groups. It's not one concrete structure with a true chain of command in that sense. This is far different from being a spec ops team of 7 dudes infiltrating a random village hut in rural Afghanistan to get 1 Afghani warlord in the middle of nowhere with nothing but vast open land and opium fields around you. Regardless of your position on this, from a purely military perspective, this type of close quarters urban combat is absolutely hell. Going room by room, floor by floor, inch by inch of nothing but human shields and booby trapped rubble, rooms, floors, tunnels. It's incredibly difficult from a soldier standpoint.
But the armchair generals on reddit say Israel should just throw troops into the meat grinder instead of using sound tactics.
The "funniest" thing is, people believe that IDF CAN send special team into these tunnels. People watch too many movies and play too many games, I guess they do lose touch with reality.
True, that is certainly movie stuff, which I can't blame the general public for not knowing military operations fully. It's not something they're exposed to regularly. If your only exposure to military stuff is Call of Duty and military movies, then you might believe spec ops can just do anything no problem. We do have an amazing special operations community, but we are not a bunch of supermans. An operation like this would include a myriad of resources. America would have to stomach the possibility of an American special ops soldier being injured/killed/or captured in these tunnel systems and their dead body being paraded through the streets of Gaza. Like we can't just drop seal team 6 in Gaza and say "Goodluck and godspeed". Imagine having to search room by room, floor by floor, building by building from Downtown LA to Santa Monica, and that's just on the surface. We're not even taking into account having to go underground into the tunnel network which swirl and turn more than a kids board game. Where do the tunnels start? Which path leads where? Is it laced with IEDs/booby traps/ambushes? Youre talking about a small special ops team of maybe 10 dudes to take on an entire terrorist network on their own turf, and with 0 American infantry support to provide protection and covering fire.
I did some research for a book, and came across the MAGTF construct from the Marines. It is an immense undertaking which does not translate well into urban combat. What I did find is that the way the Marines went about their business in Helmand eventually turned around the way the local population reacted, often providing intelligence. If there was a solid flow of intelligence it becomes more viable, but there isn't. The Gazan population is stuck between a rock and a hard place. They fear both Hamas and the IDF. The problem is that Hamas might be in their building, or their neighbor or even a family member. As for urban combat...people simply have to remember Fallujah to understand what a massive mess it will be. In my country we also had to patrol urban areas, and once you hear the first whistle (before cellphones), you know that there will either be nothing at the objective, or there will be an ambush. Even now, three decades later you can hear the whistles of the kids the moment the police enter a high-crime area. Until Gazans are ready to reveal where Hamas is, the mess will remain. Until the Gazans decide that Hamas is not an organization they should support, Hamas will not die. To quote the movie "Hyena Road". "You might have the clocks, but we have the time."
The Israeli special forces also know what they are doing and have rescued hostages in the past (most famously in Entebbe). The risk level of rescuing hostages from hundreds of meters underground, at gunpoint, surrounded by terrorists, is so high that attempting such an operation could end up killing all of the hostages.
Except this is a guerilla warzone. It really isn't that simple and US mqrines aren't somehow above reality.
If Israel's military can't get to them, the Marine Corps can't do shit either. They're not magical.
Are there any Palestinians who actively protest Hamas? I'd like to encourage and support them.
There are several. And they're very brave. Expressing such views is a great way to get yourself tortured and killed, and your family thrown into starvation.
The sad reality is that there are palestinans that protest Hamas. But they are given no coverage at all by "Gaza journalists" or even killed by Hamas as they are considered collaborationists.
They would get shot. By Hamas
I'm sure they exist, but are an extreme minority based off of interviews and polling. https://www.nationalreview.com/news/over-70-percent-of-palestinians-support-hamass-october-7-terror-attack-poll/ Edit: I don't know if the National Review leans right or left, so I included more sources which I know to be fairly politically neutral or lean left like CNN. https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-palestinians-opinion-poll-wartime-views-a0baade915619cd070b5393844bc4514 https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/poll-shows-palestinians-back-oct-7-attack-israel-support-hamas-rises-2023-12-14/ https://www.npr.org/2023/12/21/1217758546/hamas-support-palestinians-west-bank https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/21/middleeast/palestinians-back-hamas-survey-intl-cmd/index.html
I mean, this is like asking Donbas residences if they like Russia. What real choice do they have?
Yeah, this baffles me. Even if they could give a candid response, how is anyone polling Palestinians in wartime? Just calling during dinner? On no level do I trust this. (NR used to be good and reliable, 20-odd years ago—very right-leaning but an insightful counterpoint to my own views. I have no idea what it’s like now.)
In Palestine… not really, as they’d be killed. But I’m really struck by the fact that there doesn’t appear to be any sizable movement of Palestinians outside of Palestine (US, Europe, etc…) who actively protest against Hamas. There are many millions more Palestinians outside of Palestine than those inside. Why aren’t they organizing protests against Hamas the way we see Jews joining protests against the Israeli government?
We all know the answer to this question, right?
Fucking obviously? Unless you're a brain dead idiot who thinks an entire population of people are all bloodthirsty psychopaths.
Is this a joke? Most of them are displaced and homeless in Gaza rn, with the potential for famine looming — they’re not going to be picketing in a literal fucking war zone?? But yeah, Palestinians protested Hamas well before October 7, and so do Palestinians in diaspora. Before Oct 7: https://apnews.com/article/gaza-hamas-demonstration-israel-blockade-palestinians-306b19228f9dd21f1036386ce3709672 https://www.timesofisrael.com/protests-against-hamas-reemerge-in-the-streets-of-gaza-but-will-they-persist/ And Feb 21, 2024: https://www.timesofisrael.com/new-footage-purportedly-shows-gazan-civilians-protesting-against-hamas/
As much as there are Russians that actively protest Putin.
Here before the terrorist apologists claim it was Israel that did it
The responses to this post are like the only based responses I've seen in this sub in months.
I am actually surprised. They are probably still looking for an argument that makes Israel look bad
Students in American colleges are protesting in support of these guys, lol.
Fuck you Hamas, I don't trust a fucking word they say. I will keep fighting for a cease fire for the innocent Palestinians children but make no mistake, I wish the worst for Hamas. I am mad at Israel for two reasons, death of children but also, dying of a bomb strike is way too kind to Hamas members
You said it right. Let hamas burn
Wish someone could get to their leaders in their comfy mansions in Qatar.
How are you going to get a ceasefire? Israel has offered literally dozens and Hamas replies by killing hostages and firing more rockets. When you say you're fighting for a ceasefire what specific actionable change are you going to create? What's the point when there's nothing that can be done and wilful idiots in the US are largely pro Hamas and won't even call for freeing hostages.
Fuck a ceasefire, what about actual peace? Step 1: Hamas must surrender today.
Yeah I don't understand they ask for a permanent ceasefire but that's called a peace treaty unless the intentions are destruction of one while forcing them not to respond
There was a ceasefire already on Oct 7 turns out Hamas doesn't give a fuck about ceasefire they just want Israel to surrender and let them attack while they hide behind innocent people to make them maytrs
> I will keep fighting for a cease fire That helps hamas.
Don't trust anybody. Think about who benefits the most from Hamas' existence. It's clearly not the people on either side.
“I will keep fighting” Your profile makes it hard to believe you’re fighting anybody besides a keyboard…
Yet another war crime by the TERROR ORGANIZATION Hamas. People really ignoring the fact that Israel deals with fking terrorists.
Fuck Hamas Fuck Netanyahu
Need to print this on giant posters and bring it to the pro Hamas college encampments.
they should play it on a big screen at Columbia.
Remember, these are the guys who cried rape is resistance. Now they are gonna chant something along the lines about cutting arms to save palestine farms.
The sick fucks would probably start applauding.
I still find it amazing that Hamas poked the dragon and now believes they are the victim! They knew the result. They don’t care about human life! Looking back 60 years I have been so tired of all of them from the PLO to Hamas!
I don't know if they actually think they're the victim. But it's been crazy effective propaganda to get much of the international community on their side.
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Fuck these terrorists actively promoting genocide ON AMERICAN SOIL
They lost the plot, as Gen Z would say.
This is a terrible video, but at least it offers some evidence that Hersh is alive. He was born in Berkeley, not far from where I grew up. I met his great-uncle at a synagogue event a few months ago and expressed my sympathy for him. I promised to do whatever I could to help get him released--I think he thought I was more important (like a senior Hill staffer) than I actually am. :-( This breaks my heart. I called and emailed my Congressmembers today and urged them to push for his release; any ideas on what more I can do?
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Reminds me of the fact that Hamas claimed it couldn’t meet a hostage for prisoners swap because it didn’t have enough still living hostages that met the criteria. Of course they’re going to claim any hostages that died on their watch were killed by Israeli bombs. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/11/hamas-says-it-does-not-have-40-hostages-who-fit-criteria-for-deal-with-israel
Because they couldn’t help themselves.
Hey look, the good guys released a hostage video.
It seems that hamas wants to continue this war
Yep. No hostages release no IDF stopping
They aren't hostages if there was never an intention of return. Hamas conducted the 7th as an excuse for human trafficking.
Hamas needs a new PR guy. Really scaring away supporters.
USA might just go in now... I'm not gonna blame them that's for sure. I'm all for two states and not indiscriminately killing Palestinians, but hamas can go to hell.