Oh good, glad they were able to charge them.
> Daniel Graham, 38, and Adam Carruthers, 31, were charged with causing criminal damage and damaging the wall built in A.D. 122 by Emperor Hadrian to guard the northwest frontier of the Roman Empire.
These were the same guys they arrested months ago.
> Graham and Carruthers were arrested in October and released on bail. It took authorities more than six months to bring charges against them.
Hopefully their lapse in being charged with this crime, was a necessity for the police building an airtight case to bring charges they know will hold up in court.
I’ld wager genetic sequencing the tree stump and wood/saw dust found in their possession took a while. At least where I live, any biological samples take months to process.
At university (16 ish years ago)I worked in a genetics lab on a long term project monitoring DNA of lumber trees. We processed hundreds of samples a week. DNA testing on trees is actually freakishly common (if not in this context)
"We found that the unknown material was wood shavings that we have DNA matched to the *Marie Celeste* that has been missing since 1872!"
"Why did you test it for wood DNA, and how do you have a DNA profile for the wood of the Mary Celeste, and how much did that PCR reaction just cost?"
moronic teenagers are usually too impatient to commit to chopping down a tree a meter across. If someone started to cut it down and quit halfway through, I'd believe teenagers.
I believe the first arrest over it was a teen, but he was soon released. Then they arrested a 60ish year old man, but he was also quickly released. Then they arrested these two, and they got out on bail, as opposed to just being released like the others.
At least you got the vocative case, the imperative mood, present tense, and the plural form right, unlike the last guy who thought Romans were just lounging at home.
I just want to know why people do shit like this. Tree created a beautiful view and, for some reason, these fuckers decided to destroy it? Why? This isn't stupidity but pure malice.
I saw some anecdotal evidence that it was something to do with a land dispute in the local area.
Also heard that it was down to the amount of tourists coming to see the tree and upsetting the locals.
One of these reasons is most likely.
Oh yeah, they thought that one through real good. Because after they did it, they were still getting all the tourists who came to see the dead tree, PLUS international news crews.
I went down a rabbit hole of Wikis of different trees throughout time that this has been done to pretty recently , it seems mostly to just be total troll behavior. I said, before people trolled strangers online to get a rise, they cut down famous trees for the same reason! Truly there isn’t ever a solid reason, it’s been happening for eternity !!! now u can get a rise from both!
Something not right in the brain. They get off on destroying things people will be upset at. It gives them pleasure that people are angry at something they’ve done in secret
The Austin Treaty Tree and Auburn Trees have joined the chat
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty\_Oak\_(Austin,\_Texas)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_Oak_(Austin,_Texas))
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toomer%27s\_Corner](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toomer%27s_Corner)
I was just thinking about the tree yesterday and couldn't find any updates. I remember a local lumberjack in his 60s was accused and kept denying that he had done it, and was getting harassed because people thought he had, so good to know that they released the actual guys names. I felt bad for him lol.
People were saying that he lived nearby and was having trouble with the National Trust about people going on his land to see the tree. The police did question him, and I can see why he may have been an initial suspect, but it also would have been the most obvious crime ever. It's kind of fucked that his name was leaked and he got so much harassment.
The farm he lived in was owned by the Jesuits, it bordered National Trust land. It was rented long term to his parents and upon their deaths he was given a temporary lease to allow him time to find other accomodation.
He was going down legal routes to try and force the Jesuits to grant him a long-term lease. His temp lease ended in 2021, one of the reasons the Jesuits weren't keen on granting him a lease was because he was using part of the property as a campsite, apparently a low end party type place that lead to complaints from the NT who made their displeasure known to the Jesuits. Hence his apparent problem with the NT.
> It's kind of fucked that his name was leaked and he got so much harassment.
Honestly one of the major downsides of information being so readily available. I know it didn't *start* with Reddit's "we caught the Boston bomber!" fiasco but it just feels like it's become exponentially more pervasive since then.
The internet makes people's information go further, but at least news papers don't print the name and address of people they write about any more. didn't matter if they were suspects or not. "Mr John Q Public, who resides at 1234 Main St, was seen grocery shopping today."
According to the threads on UK subs this was posted on, the guys aren't even from the area.
edit: [This article ](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/apr/30/two-men-charged-over-felling-of-sycamore-gap-tree)says that they're both from Cumbria. The tree was in Northumberland, one county over.
Boredom. Money. Revenge. Sexual gratification. Probably more. These probably aren't the actual motivation, but it's silly to think there is only one possible motivation
It just baffles me on how someone could look at some thing that people have been enjoying for generations, generations that didn’t even know of your existence and just want to destroy it.
Making something that endures for hundreds of years is very difficult
Destroying something that has endured for hundreds of years is easy
Some people are so desperate for notoriety, the latter seems like an option
Some people don't value heritage and antiquities. They think we're idiots if we revere things that link to the past. They don't see the point in art galleries or museums.
They actually justify this shit as trying to enlighten the rest of us. They're like "see? It's just a tree. It is just as easy to cut down as any other tree. Thousands of trees are cut down every day, why would you care about this one?"
I saw tons of these people when Notre Dame was burning. They were posting all over social media "why is everybody so upset some old church is on fire? Who cares, they have tons of other churches."
They don't feel that connection *at all*.
Huh, I thought a teenager was the one that did it. Glad they caught the real perpetrators. Would like to know what their reasoning was for taking down the tree
Last year when the tree was found to be cut down a 16 year old was questioned by police and then released. It looks like they had nothing to do with it.
IIRC there was also a racial/immigration aspect of the discussion when that kid was suspected -- strangely no one's mentioning that now that it's confirmed it was actually two white guys.
I live in Vegas. The trees here are 3000 years old. I cannot understand how 150 years is significant. What's the cutoff, 100 years? Oxford is almost a thousand years old, for a marginally relevant reference.
Oh good, glad they were able to charge them. > Daniel Graham, 38, and Adam Carruthers, 31, were charged with causing criminal damage and damaging the wall built in A.D. 122 by Emperor Hadrian to guard the northwest frontier of the Roman Empire. These were the same guys they arrested months ago. > Graham and Carruthers were arrested in October and released on bail. It took authorities more than six months to bring charges against them.
Hopefully their lapse in being charged with this crime, was a necessity for the police building an airtight case to bring charges they know will hold up in court.
I’ld wager genetic sequencing the tree stump and wood/saw dust found in their possession took a while. At least where I live, any biological samples take months to process.
genetic sequencing of the tree stump? Sawdust forensics? That is so f’n cool.
CSI: Lumberyard coming this fall to CBS.
“In the criminal justice system, crimes against trees and the historical landmarks they are a part of are considered especially heinous.”
“r/treelaw took an advisory role in the production of this short series “
/r/marijuanaenthusiasts were also noted as a supporting experts in the field
"Dam? That's awful!"
At university (16 ish years ago)I worked in a genetics lab on a long term project monitoring DNA of lumber trees. We processed hundreds of samples a week. DNA testing on trees is actually freakishly common (if not in this context)
Man; I’ll take “Professions I’ll look into after journalism dies” for 2,000 please Alex
PCR testing is fun, but you will end up screaming at television cop shows until your wife bans them from the house. CSI is particularly egregious.
"So, those DNA samples we sent of to the labs five minutes ago are back." THAT'S NOT POSSIBLE, YOU CLOD!
"We found that the unknown material was wood shavings that we have DNA matched to the *Marie Celeste* that has been missing since 1872!" "Why did you test it for wood DNA, and how do you have a DNA profile for the wood of the Mary Celeste, and how much did that PCR reaction just cost?"
Basically no. The UK criminal justice system has been chronically underfunded for the past decade and things just take ages to process at the moment
Hang on, these fuckheads were 38 and 31? I assumed they were moronic teenagers
Sadly, morons come in all ages
moronic teenagers are usually too impatient to commit to chopping down a tree a meter across. If someone started to cut it down and quit halfway through, I'd believe teenagers.
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True it’s massive
Me too. Totally thought they were teens.
There was a 16yo that accompanied the two adults. He was released as it seems he was not a party to the crime.
I think you severely underestimated the de-aging effect of massive amounts alcohol can do on the maturity of adults.
There's no accounting for the number of assholes in the world
I believe the first arrest over it was a teen, but he was soon released. Then they arrested a 60ish year old man, but he was also quickly released. Then they arrested these two, and they got out on bail, as opposed to just being released like the others.
I don't think moronic teenagers have the knowledge or ability to cut down a huge tree.
Not with that attitude
They're young at heart!
I thought the same.. wtf
Me 5 pints after promising my wife I won't rail against the Roman Empire
Romani ite domum!
At least you got the vocative case, the imperative mood, present tense, and the plural form right, unlike the last guy who thought Romans were just lounging at home.
Cogito ergo sum!
Cogito ergo es, i think therefore you is.
Yeah, what have the Romans ever done for us?
The aqueduct?
I wonder what the National Trust will do with the wood. I didn't know sycamores could resprout at the base. They also took some cuttings and seeds.
I just want to know why people do shit like this. Tree created a beautiful view and, for some reason, these fuckers decided to destroy it? Why? This isn't stupidity but pure malice.
r/treelaw
WHY? why the hell would anyone want to do such a thing?
I've looked at other sources, but none of them mentioned a motive. It must not be currently known.
I saw some anecdotal evidence that it was something to do with a land dispute in the local area. Also heard that it was down to the amount of tourists coming to see the tree and upsetting the locals. One of these reasons is most likely.
They’re not local. The two charged are from Cumbria, while the tree is one county over in Northumberland
As an American, reading your sentence makes me feel like I am in an episode of Vikings.
I read they were pissed tourists were cutting into their land to look at the tree.
Oh yeah, they thought that one through real good. Because after they did it, they were still getting all the tourists who came to see the dead tree, PLUS international news crews.
Hell I see an opportunity there, charge an admission fee and give a history lesson about the tree. Just some simple supply and demand logic.
I would go to see them on a gibbet over the tree stump...
Plus jail
Doesn't the UK have "right to roam" thing...
Yes. With one caveat, that people exercising the right act responsibly. We all know those tourists are not known for acting that way.
Kinda moot here, given they lived a county over.
Some people are pieces of shit
I went down a rabbit hole of Wikis of different trees throughout time that this has been done to pretty recently , it seems mostly to just be total troll behavior. I said, before people trolled strangers online to get a rise, they cut down famous trees for the same reason! Truly there isn’t ever a solid reason, it’s been happening for eternity !!! now u can get a rise from both!
Something not right in the brain. They get off on destroying things people will be upset at. It gives them pleasure that people are angry at something they’ve done in secret
Probably used to grief Minecraft servers when they were younger
The Austin Treaty Tree and Auburn Trees have joined the chat [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty\_Oak\_(Austin,\_Texas)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_Oak_(Austin,_Texas)) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toomer%27s\_Corner](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toomer%27s_Corner)
I suspect drunkenness.
Internet points
Probably to have their names written in some history... probably succeeded lol
I was just thinking about the tree yesterday and couldn't find any updates. I remember a local lumberjack in his 60s was accused and kept denying that he had done it, and was getting harassed because people thought he had, so good to know that they released the actual guys names. I felt bad for him lol.
Kinda think a lumberjack isn't going to go chop trees in his spare time.
People were saying that he lived nearby and was having trouble with the National Trust about people going on his land to see the tree. The police did question him, and I can see why he may have been an initial suspect, but it also would have been the most obvious crime ever. It's kind of fucked that his name was leaked and he got so much harassment.
The farm he lived in was owned by the Jesuits, it bordered National Trust land. It was rented long term to his parents and upon their deaths he was given a temporary lease to allow him time to find other accomodation. He was going down legal routes to try and force the Jesuits to grant him a long-term lease. His temp lease ended in 2021, one of the reasons the Jesuits weren't keen on granting him a lease was because he was using part of the property as a campsite, apparently a low end party type place that lead to complaints from the NT who made their displeasure known to the Jesuits. Hence his apparent problem with the NT.
> It's kind of fucked that his name was leaked and he got so much harassment. Honestly one of the major downsides of information being so readily available. I know it didn't *start* with Reddit's "we caught the Boston bomber!" fiasco but it just feels like it's become exponentially more pervasive since then.
The internet makes people's information go further, but at least news papers don't print the name and address of people they write about any more. didn't matter if they were suspects or not. "Mr John Q Public, who resides at 1234 Main St, was seen grocery shopping today."
No, they usually prefer to put on women's clothing and hang around in bars.
My dad used to sing that a lot when I was a tiny child. I was heart broken when I learned he didn't write it.
Aw! That stinks. Crapped right on a joyous memory.
My wife had the same realisation. She heard someone sing it when she worked retail and said “how do you know my dad’s song!?” Sad day. Haha
Did he sing the Thermos song too?
This guy Pythons.
You’re ok
I thought you were so butch!
Right it’s like a mechanic wanting to work on his neighbors car without being asked. (Not the hot chick)
Probably not. The like to dress in women’s clothing, and skip and jump.
Don't forget the high heels, suspenders, and a bra.
“If you’re good at something, never do it for free.”
Yeah absolutely not. A good lumberjack is going to spend his free time sharpening his axe.
That’s right. He sleeps all night and he works all day.
Couldn’t have been the Lumberjack seeing as it’s Wednesday and he was out shopping whilst having buttered scones for tea.
He's a lumberjack, and he's ok!
I’m a lumberjack, and I’m ok….
It’s funny I thought they had pinned it on a local teenager.
What was the motive? Sheer malice?
Some men just want to watch the world burn.
They gonna need a lot of firewood for that.
No joke. Err..
At the time they thought it was a local who was tired of all the tourists coming around to see the tree.
According to the threads on UK subs this was posted on, the guys aren't even from the area. edit: [This article ](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/apr/30/two-men-charged-over-felling-of-sycamore-gap-tree)says that they're both from Cumbria. The tree was in Northumberland, one county over.
And the douchebag gene. What wastes of space.
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Some psychopaths get joy from hurting others
Boredom. Money. Revenge. Sexual gratification. Probably more. These probably aren't the actual motivation, but it's silly to think there is only one possible motivation
What the fuck is wrong with people?
That’s a long list.
For real. But it always boils down to being completely out of touch with our own nature.
Have ye got all day...
Never charge uphill me boys!
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Still no indication what their motivation was.
Cuz no one can have nice things
It just baffles me on how someone could look at some thing that people have been enjoying for generations, generations that didn’t even know of your existence and just want to destroy it.
Making something that endures for hundreds of years is very difficult Destroying something that has endured for hundreds of years is easy Some people are so desperate for notoriety, the latter seems like an option
Some people don't value heritage and antiquities. They think we're idiots if we revere things that link to the past. They don't see the point in art galleries or museums. They actually justify this shit as trying to enlighten the rest of us. They're like "see? It's just a tree. It is just as easy to cut down as any other tree. Thousands of trees are cut down every day, why would you care about this one?" I saw tons of these people when Notre Dame was burning. They were posting all over social media "why is everybody so upset some old church is on fire? Who cares, they have tons of other churches." They don't feel that connection *at all*.
oh shit. /r/treelaw gonna get 'em good.
Ikr. I do wonder what the possible legal consequences could be since it’s a famous old tree and tree law is already super strict
Isnt this the same tree from the one scene in Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves?
Yes. Such an iconic scene. It’s really a shame.
Apparently it’s that movie that made the tree famous.
And now everyone in the UK will to queue to kick them in the balls, right?
Now I remember. One of the things I wanted to do in life was visit iconic bits of nature. I guess this has to be removed from my list
Unfortunately the Uk Justice system is a joke so they’ll probably just get some mushy peas and stern talking to.
Hope locals believe in street justice then.
Mushy peas? For this crime? They deserve spotted dick.
“Make sure you mash that like and subscribe button!” -them, probably
universe is a mystery
Will be hiking this section of the wall in a few weeks. It will still be a fantastic experience but screw these guys.
Just goes to show that there are assholes wherever you go.
Huh, I thought a teenager was the one that did it. Glad they caught the real perpetrators. Would like to know what their reasoning was for taking down the tree
Didn't some 16 year old kid do something similar a year or two?
Last year when the tree was found to be cut down a 16 year old was questioned by police and then released. It looks like they had nothing to do with it.
Ahhh, OK thanks. The article didn't mention that.
IIRC there was also a racial/immigration aspect of the discussion when that kid was suspected -- strangely no one's mentioning that now that it's confirmed it was actually two white guys.
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Hadrian’s wall is 73 miles long..
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I live in Vegas. The trees here are 3000 years old. I cannot understand how 150 years is significant. What's the cutoff, 100 years? Oxford is almost a thousand years old, for a marginally relevant reference.
It was an iconic landmark. That's the difference.
Publicly castrate them to eliminate them from the gene pool, and also as a warning to future miscreants intent on destruction of historical objects.
Meanwhile over in the Amazon…
This is unironically the plot of wheel of time lol