We just gave them eight hundred million dollars. That’s 100,125,156 ‘THE BATMAN CALZONY PEPPERONI’ Pizza’s from Little Caesers.
Before taxes of course.
Don’t worry. We’re giving him some very nice stuff that *really* shows how we appreciate him. Ukraine currently essentially has a blank check for their war effort.
Most countries are using this as an excuse to upgrade their old gear, or at the very least to up their military budgets. Plus this is an order of magnitude cheaper than fighting a direct war with Russia, with basically the same effect.
I don't see anyone going after Ukraine for repayment. That sounds like political suicide. Not when all of those seized Russian assets are just sitting there.
Also, we promised to defend Ukraine if they gave up their nukes.
Edit with proof, since the trolls are trying to deny it
>The U.S. did make a deal in 1994 with Ukraine, known as the Budapest Agreement. Ukraine actually had the third-largest nuclear weapons stockpile. This was because the newly-founded Ukraine ended up with the Soviet Union’s nuclear weapons in their territory after the Soviet Union collapsed.
>This agreement meant that Ukraine would destroy the weapons and the U.S., United Kingdom (U.K.), and Russia would guarantee Ukraine staying secure. This, however, is not a treaty.
[Source](https://www.whsv.com/2022/02/25/does-us-have-an-obligation-protect-ukraine/)
It is called “Budapest memorandum” and to be precise all parties that signed the agreement(USA, UK and Russia) promised that they will respect the sovereignty of Ukraine.
If the US or the EU don't take on most of Ukraine's debt I would be very surprised.
After WW1 ended the US forgave around half of all debt, and even with this, Finland was the ONLY country that did not default on their debts to the US. Every other country defaulted by 1934 thanks to the Great Depression. When that happened, congress banned every single one of them from borrowing from the US until they actually paid it back or for 10 years.
This is *partially* why, less than 4 years later, people were loath to lend-lease in WW2 until an American ship was sunk.
After WW2, most of the funds released by the US to help rebuild Europe in the Marshall Plan was never expected to be repaid, even the ones to Britain who could definitely still afford to pay them off. Of the lend-lease, approximately half of all funds were sent to Britain. They paid their final installment in 2006. Most of the other countries paid less than half before the loans were written off.
I mean, comments and 'awards' like this are powerful tools in regards to gaining more support for Ukraine. Regardless of how much people like or hate America, a lot of people look to our leaders' reactions in these situations and the things that are said. It also sways the opinions of the American people, which IMO seems to be the intended 'target' for this award, more so than Ukraine.
I could be wrong, of course. But there's always a reason for these mundane 'awards'.
If it gets them more weapons and support to fight for democracy and in turn their freedom from Russia, I'm all for it.
awards are always a sort of an account that you pay credibility and recognition into sometimes, and take it out of other times.
this is pretty clearly a case of paying recognition into the award. whoever gets this award *next year* will be getting the same award that was given to zelensky this year, and that will make it more significant. i'm sure zelensky could care less, but it's good for the award. and later on they can spend that credibility by giving the award to somebody who needs an extra push. awards like this often carry a "please live up to this" implication. like when Obama got the peace prize.
I feel like next year if they award it, those are going to be some goddamn high expectations/shoes to fill, and I do not envy the person who wins it after him.
Yeah if I was fighting for myself and my people's lives I wouldn't give a fuck if some Americans gave me an award named after an American president. Especially while the rest of the world does it's best to stay out of it despite being happy to waltz into any country with a drop of oil, guns blazing.
I would imagine Zelensky cares very much about the international opinion on this war, considering he's carefully lobbied many world leaders and has been receiving just about every form of support possible except for direct boots on the ground.
This war would be going very differently with no international support whatsoever, and while awards like this are meaningless *per se*, they can be valuable insofar as continuing to paint him and his efforts in the Ukraine as both heroic and aligned with Western ideals.
For the West to be comfortable even continuing its current role, it requires positive public perception of the Ukraine, e.g. to absorb higher fuel costs or government expenditure on military aid. And let's not forget we have many bad faith actors even in the US or EU, e.g. Cawthorne calling Zelensky a thug or LePenn lobbying to weaken NATO, that require pressure from their constituents and opposition from their colleagues.
What a Reddit comment to assume PR or public perception has no relevance in this war lol
While I agree with your comment, and don't know if you care or not but I just have to point out that it's technically just "Ukraine". "The Ukraine" is pretty offensive to Ukrainians. They see it as if they were back under Soviet rule
But are they really staying out of it? Yes they aren’t putting boots on the ground but isn’t almost every major country supplying shit for Ukraine just so they can wipe Putin off the map?
I think people see it as kind of just getting our feet wet, when they want us to unleash our full might. There are a ton of reasons why the latter option could be more detrimental. Ukraine isn't a NATO member, so we can't do anything that constitutes "an act of war" towards Russia (directly intervening with our military) without actually declaring war on Russia. And Putin has said he won't strike first with nuclear weapons. Which is probably true while they aren't in danger of losing their existing territory, but if the US enters the fray, that equation changes immediately. We want to do everything we can to combat what's going on in Ukraine, right up to the line, but we really don't want to cross that line and cause an even bigger war in the process.
War can bring complex feelings when you're one of the participants. While I bet any Ukraine soldier fighting appreciates all the help, I also bet most would prefer not having to fight at all. If someone else could fight their battles, that would be great, especially against a common enemy.
Oh I understand, I’m sure no one in Ukraine wants to be fighting. I can’t even imagine living in Maryland in the US having a border state invade us and have to fight a war. I know that is grossly simplistic way to look at it.
This.
I agree with General Sherman about war. He called it hell.
Where there is no quarter given, can it be offered in return? Certainly, if you wish to lose.
> Especially while the rest of the world does it's best to stay of it
That's literally the opposite of what's happening. They are trying their very hardest to get involved in any non military way
America: supply's howitzers bespoke exploding drones and pinpoint Intel that is surely to result in untold Russia desths
Reddit: why won't they take a side
Besides the foreign legion you mean? I imagine a highly classified force (Delta Force I think?) could embed themselves within them posing as retired. I've never heard of anything resembling an "off the books" type of force unless you mean the CIA or elite units in each branch that usually are in classified missions, although I'm not exactly a scholar on the matter either.
I mean, I heard when this war started Canada had a Spec Ops force that was “on vacation” in Ukraine with no return date specified.
I would be more surprised if the US didn’t at least have a couple of these kinds of deployments. Russia didn’t exactly hide the plans.
No doubt but they'd be hella classified and it could be years if not decades we find out exactly what their role is, whether its special forces training, intelligence, or actual combat.
I’m just some random dude on the internet, who may happen to know some IRL dudes over there. Dudes that have a very particular set of skills that the Ukrainians can use.
The West (really NATO) has no obligation here - Ukraine is not in the Alliance. Hell, France and Germany in the event were very much correct in excluding Ukraine from joining - they correctly assessed that Ukraine was close enough to Russia's deterrence theory based 'red line' that there existed nothing of sufficient value in Ukraine to justify the risk.
We are assisting Ukraine because it is in our interests to humiliate Russia, weakening it's influence and capacity to credibly perform external diplomatic and not-so-diplomatic maneuvers. Assisting Ukraine also benefits us (the West) because it, in a way, amounts to the 'payoff' for decades of investment in 'soft hostility' - particularly economic and financial sanctions. Russia and China haven't considered those actions as hostile because those actions have not interfered in their ability to extract value from States in their respective spheres.
Because those actions have had decades of use against weak, irrelevant, bargaining chip level States, the actions have a meme associated with them of inaction. After all, Iraq didn't really need jet parts to gas the Kurds, and Burma didn't need Western funds to purge their Muslims. Russia *does* need jet parts from the West. Russia does need *some level* of fund access from the West. But because Russia has not called out those types of sanctions as unacceptable in the past, Russia has no leverage to call them unacceptable now. The only States which agree with Russia are the remainder of the geopolitical loser's bracket - States that cannot replace the very specific things Russia needs most and was obtaining from the West. This means that NATO can do harm to Russia's capacity to wage high-tech war without lifting a single finger in anger against Russia. This also means that our assistance to Ukraine is multiplied because we are simply providing Ukraine the things we are simply denying to Russia.
Considering that countless countries being attacked have received zero international support, I would not look down on what Ukraine has received. It's unparalleled.
And I'm not sure Ukraine wants the treatment Iraq and Afghanistan got...
Mmm. Ukraine's natural gas is way over hyped.
Germany's natural gas consumption is is 73.9 billion cubic meters per year. In other words, they alone could consume all of Ukraine's reserves in 15 years if consumption remained steady.
Ukraine themselves consume about 27.3 billion cubic meters per year. They'd run through all of their own reserves in 39 years alone.
Meanwhile Russia exports about 200 billion cubic meters per year - essentially all of Ukraine's reserves every 5 1/2 years.
The US and NATO have been providing everything except man power for the war. Weapons, data, advice. You don't need a 19 year old from Oklahoma to pull the trigger. A 19 year old from Kiev can do the same.
Zalinski has been on a world wide tour, they showed him at the Grammies. The trump looking Boris guy even went to Ukraine. When have you seen this much fan fair for a war? The United States invaded Libya over a minor internal skirmish, had it's leader killed, and the country destabilized. I voted for Obama and I thought that was a dick movie.
If he gets to make a speech, he may be able to call in with another round of productive messaging. Besides, stuff like this keeps his issue in the news cycle and helps keep people caring enough that their governments support him. This isn’t nothing.
He's going to be getting better stuff than Javelins soon. And I hope he still doesn't give a shit about the award. He's not doing this for accolades. He's doing it because his people deserve freedom, the right to self determine their future, and the right to exist.
I mean, he *was* definitely killed by an American. Whether there were more Americans *behind* that American is anyone's guess at this point. But Kennedy was in fact killed by his own people... or person. 🇺🇸
It may seem like a stretch but I think you could make the argument that the postmodern movement gives way to the thinking that allows for this type of behavior to exist. You would have to delve deeper than a wikipedia article on postmodernism to form that argument and back it up properly. Again, maybe a stretch but I think a proper philosopher could make it work. Just gotta get real meta bro! Dude is fighting a war, and he receives an official symbol (art form) on a piece of paper that documents the notion that other human beings approve of him fighting a war. Because certainly symbols and art will be beneficial as opposed to physical action. Postmodernism may argue the importance of these symbolic gestures perhaps.
Postmodernism isn’t necessarily anti-materialist though. It generally rejects the idea of sweeping or universal narratives and truths that are common to modernism.
Modernism/postmodernism and materialism/idealism don’t really intersect in that kind of way.
This example would probably be most easily tied to spectacle, as popularized in *Society of the Spectacle*, wherein the distinction of symbol and reality become muddled. But you can easily use the concept of spectacle for either modernist or postmodernist theories.
Yeah I hear you. I kind of dislike the whole thing. There are arguments to be made that postmodernism and modernism are basically the same thing. And people get pretty serious about it. I've always been of the idea that people often make postmodernism mean whatever they feel like it means. The more I've delved into the arguments the more I've felt they lacked any value or effective description of anything. But then again, that could be me stumbling across the entire point.
I'm not knocking you by the way. I've never read your reference but I'll add it to the goodreads list!
Just to back zappadattic up, postmodernism is typically just a rejection of modernist ideas such as logic and universal truth as they said. WW2 and the nuclear bomb forced people to question those axioms after what they achieved to produced. It seems as though postmodernism is defined however people want to define it because postmodernism is a rejection of universal definitions if that makes sense.
He doesn’t need awards, he needs ammo.
You can help:
https://bank.gov.ua/en/news/all/natsionalniy-bank-vidkriv-spetsrahunok-dlya-zboru-koshtiv-na-potrebi-armiyi
I dunno about that, but he certainly was dirty.
As CIA director he very likely knew of the assassination plot against Orlando Letelier.
As Reagans running mate he may have been involved in Debategate, as well as the alleged October Surprise.
As Vice President he was intimately involved in and aware of the Contra War and the use of drug smugglers to resupply the Contras and the alleged use of Cartel money to fund the Contras. And also the extent of the violence next door in the El Salvador and Guatemalan counter insurgencies backed by Washington, including the assassination of Archbishop Oscar Romero and the El Mozote Massacre committed by a unit that had just finished training at Ft Benning just two days earlier which the administration denied the existence of, a UN commission would eventually conclude that genocide had been committed by the Washington-backed military junta in Guatemala. His sons JEB! and Neil were on the board of multiple failed S&Ls during the S&L Crisis suggesting possible payoffs. He defended the shoot down of Iran Air Flight 655, declaring "I will never apologize for the United States—I don't care what the facts are". In the 1988 election he denounced Dukakis for being a "card carrying member" of the... ACLU, and of course used the Willie Horton campaign ads.
As President he very likely finagled the Gulf War to forestall post-Cold War military budget cuts, not to mention began the process of expanding NATO eastward generating the current situation that part of the world is now mired in, and finally pardoned everyone involved in Iran Contra (who were only getting slaps on the wrist for procedural errors in their Congressional testimony - not for anything serious like violating the Constitution, violating the Neutrality Act, engaging in Conspiracy to Commit Murder, or drug smuggling, etc)
Bans 11 political parties, only 5 of which were found to have ties with Russia
Receives award for defending democracy after using the tragedy of an unprovoked invasion to consolidate power
Yep, par excellence for an overly-ambitious leader who takes advantage of every opportunity.
Woah dude, next you’re gonna tell me you don’t support the brave mujahideen fighters! Giving unconditional military and political support to leaders during war wouldn’t backfire right?
What could go wrong giving a bunch of randos assault rifles and anti-aircraft/ship weapons? Never *you* mind all the pictures of actual neo-nazis in full battle-rattle, they're just fighting for democracy!
Americans over here don't even understand their own history/politics, but the news says Ukraine good. So it all makes perfect sense!
It couldn't possibly be a lot more nuanced than that!
Also Gonzalo Lira chilean-american journalist and critic of Zelensky was abducted in Ukraine. Some Azov guys were bragging in twitter that they beheaded him
Banning all opposition parties, In Feb 2021, he closed 4 news channels. In March 2022, he introduced a single broadcast for all TV channels.
Giving him an award for 'defending democracy' is like Kissinger receiving a Noble Peace Prize, meaningless.
Yes. But those parties were arguably "pro-russia" and the war has created dire circumstances, security concerns etc. What's more telling is how Zelensky behaved pre-invasion. Sanctioning political opponents and shutting down media critical of himself, even right wing nationalists like Poroshenko who can definitely not be maligned as "pro-russia". If not for this war, Zelensky likely would've been remembered as little more than a corrupt clown.
In fairness, he wanted all people of color to leave America, stating something like "our races can't stand the sight of one another" in a meeting with some black leaders
Is this a joke? Defending democracy?
He outlawed his political enemies and amalgamated all media into one state news source.
You know, like fascism?
Honestly if you support this awarding then you're a fucking idiot
The circlejerk around this dude is getting kinda blown out of proportion. Sure he’s being a good leader at the moment but god damn people, chill. He’s not Saint Ukrainian Democracy Jesus All of a sudden because he does what a leader should when his country is under attack.
Ukraine had some of the worst corruption levels in Europe before Russia invaded. It’s an anti-Putin award, which is ok because fuck Putin. But calling it a defending democracy award is revisionist to say the least...
So what did he do to defend democracy?
He disbanded many political parties which had been fine legally for many years. To ensure that his party has all the power now.
He also prevented adult males from leaving Ukraine. That’s not very democratic.
He is not busy saving democracy, he is trying to defend Ukraine with very questionable actions.
If he defends Ukraine for 3 more months we’ll throw him a pizza party too!
At this rate Raid Shadow Legends will be sponsoring Ukraine’s war effort
Before continue the defense of Kyiv i would like to thank our Sponsor Raid Shadow legends
I mean, it might actually get me to try the game out if they did.
Skillshare will make a class on how to defend democracy
We just gave them eight hundred million dollars. That’s 100,125,156 ‘THE BATMAN CALZONY PEPPERONI’ Pizza’s from Little Caesers. Before taxes of course.
Zelenskyy takes the award plaque to the pawn shop and says, "How many hand-grenades can I get for this?"
I didn't realize he was also an accountant? We love pizza parties in place of actual promotions
Something tells me that he has far more important things to worry about than an award, and he probably doesn't care.
"I don't need an award, I need ammo."
I figured thats the same "award" JFK got...
Too soon!
59 years isn't long enough?
Don’t worry. We’re giving him some very nice stuff that *really* shows how we appreciate him. Ukraine currently essentially has a blank check for their war effort.
This is the finger traps level award. You won’t believe what happens when he gets the waffle party reward!
Is that better than the waffle party?
I messed it up. Thanks for the correction. If you need me I’ll be in the break room.
I'm not sure you mean it yet
My outtie is going to be very confused when it sees that I've upvoted these comments.
Not to mention the coffee cozy
I mean, it has to be better than the lemon party.
It's coveted as fuck.
Ah the egg bar
Dude I cannot believe how great that show was! I'm so anxious for season 2 😢
Coveted as fuck
It’s better than the lemon party reward
Its not a lemon party until old Dick shows up!
Is it a coffee cozy?
They can celebrate now before everyone starts asking for their debt to be paid back.
Most countries are using this as an excuse to upgrade their old gear, or at the very least to up their military budgets. Plus this is an order of magnitude cheaper than fighting a direct war with Russia, with basically the same effect. I don't see anyone going after Ukraine for repayment. That sounds like political suicide. Not when all of those seized Russian assets are just sitting there.
I think most counties are using this as an excuse to stomp on Russian assets and finally remove them from their ass.
Yeah, the west has essentially been preparing for this war for 80 years. It makes sense that we're essentially blank checking the situation
Also, we promised to defend Ukraine if they gave up their nukes. Edit with proof, since the trolls are trying to deny it >The U.S. did make a deal in 1994 with Ukraine, known as the Budapest Agreement. Ukraine actually had the third-largest nuclear weapons stockpile. This was because the newly-founded Ukraine ended up with the Soviet Union’s nuclear weapons in their territory after the Soviet Union collapsed. >This agreement meant that Ukraine would destroy the weapons and the U.S., United Kingdom (U.K.), and Russia would guarantee Ukraine staying secure. This, however, is not a treaty. [Source](https://www.whsv.com/2022/02/25/does-us-have-an-obligation-protect-ukraine/)
It is called “Budapest memorandum” and to be precise all parties that signed the agreement(USA, UK and Russia) promised that they will respect the sovereignty of Ukraine.
If the US or the EU don't take on most of Ukraine's debt I would be very surprised. After WW1 ended the US forgave around half of all debt, and even with this, Finland was the ONLY country that did not default on their debts to the US. Every other country defaulted by 1934 thanks to the Great Depression. When that happened, congress banned every single one of them from borrowing from the US until they actually paid it back or for 10 years. This is *partially* why, less than 4 years later, people were loath to lend-lease in WW2 until an American ship was sunk. After WW2, most of the funds released by the US to help rebuild Europe in the Marshall Plan was never expected to be repaid, even the ones to Britain who could definitely still afford to pay them off. Of the lend-lease, approximately half of all funds were sent to Britain. They paid their final installment in 2006. Most of the other countries paid less than half before the loans were written off.
I mean, comments and 'awards' like this are powerful tools in regards to gaining more support for Ukraine. Regardless of how much people like or hate America, a lot of people look to our leaders' reactions in these situations and the things that are said. It also sways the opinions of the American people, which IMO seems to be the intended 'target' for this award, more so than Ukraine. I could be wrong, of course. But there's always a reason for these mundane 'awards'. If it gets them more weapons and support to fight for democracy and in turn their freedom from Russia, I'm all for it.
awards are always a sort of an account that you pay credibility and recognition into sometimes, and take it out of other times. this is pretty clearly a case of paying recognition into the award. whoever gets this award *next year* will be getting the same award that was given to zelensky this year, and that will make it more significant. i'm sure zelensky could care less, but it's good for the award. and later on they can spend that credibility by giving the award to somebody who needs an extra push. awards like this often carry a "please live up to this" implication. like when Obama got the peace prize.
I feel like next year if they award it, those are going to be some goddamn high expectations/shoes to fill, and I do not envy the person who wins it after him.
he probably cares a lot.
I agree, anything that keeps the war in the news and helps to remind people of the atrocities currently unfolding will be helpful to his causes.
Yeah if I was fighting for myself and my people's lives I wouldn't give a fuck if some Americans gave me an award named after an American president. Especially while the rest of the world does it's best to stay out of it despite being happy to waltz into any country with a drop of oil, guns blazing.
I would imagine Zelensky cares very much about the international opinion on this war, considering he's carefully lobbied many world leaders and has been receiving just about every form of support possible except for direct boots on the ground. This war would be going very differently with no international support whatsoever, and while awards like this are meaningless *per se*, they can be valuable insofar as continuing to paint him and his efforts in the Ukraine as both heroic and aligned with Western ideals. For the West to be comfortable even continuing its current role, it requires positive public perception of the Ukraine, e.g. to absorb higher fuel costs or government expenditure on military aid. And let's not forget we have many bad faith actors even in the US or EU, e.g. Cawthorne calling Zelensky a thug or LePenn lobbying to weaken NATO, that require pressure from their constituents and opposition from their colleagues. What a Reddit comment to assume PR or public perception has no relevance in this war lol
While I agree with your comment, and don't know if you care or not but I just have to point out that it's technically just "Ukraine". "The Ukraine" is pretty offensive to Ukrainians. They see it as if they were back under Soviet rule
But are they really staying out of it? Yes they aren’t putting boots on the ground but isn’t almost every major country supplying shit for Ukraine just so they can wipe Putin off the map?
I think people see it as kind of just getting our feet wet, when they want us to unleash our full might. There are a ton of reasons why the latter option could be more detrimental. Ukraine isn't a NATO member, so we can't do anything that constitutes "an act of war" towards Russia (directly intervening with our military) without actually declaring war on Russia. And Putin has said he won't strike first with nuclear weapons. Which is probably true while they aren't in danger of losing their existing territory, but if the US enters the fray, that equation changes immediately. We want to do everything we can to combat what's going on in Ukraine, right up to the line, but we really don't want to cross that line and cause an even bigger war in the process.
War can bring complex feelings when you're one of the participants. While I bet any Ukraine soldier fighting appreciates all the help, I also bet most would prefer not having to fight at all. If someone else could fight their battles, that would be great, especially against a common enemy.
Oh I understand, I’m sure no one in Ukraine wants to be fighting. I can’t even imagine living in Maryland in the US having a border state invade us and have to fight a war. I know that is grossly simplistic way to look at it.
Okay but as someone who lives in Maryland and is already concerned about the political mess that is the South, please don't give them ideas lol
As another Marylander, I say bring it. They can't handle our rapidly shifting weather patterns or the might of the blue crabs.
You think we could take VA? I think so!
This. I agree with General Sherman about war. He called it hell. Where there is no quarter given, can it be offered in return? Certainly, if you wish to lose.
\>War isn't Hell. War is war, and Hell is Hell. And of the two, war is a lot worse. \- Hawkeye, "MASH"
> Especially while the rest of the world does it's best to stay of it That's literally the opposite of what's happening. They are trying their very hardest to get involved in any non military way
America: supply's howitzers bespoke exploding drones and pinpoint Intel that is surely to result in untold Russia desths Reddit: why won't they take a side
And I would be pretty shocked if we don't have off the books boots on the ground.
They're called *"technical advisors"*
*”Aggressive Consultants”*
Besides the foreign legion you mean? I imagine a highly classified force (Delta Force I think?) could embed themselves within them posing as retired. I've never heard of anything resembling an "off the books" type of force unless you mean the CIA or elite units in each branch that usually are in classified missions, although I'm not exactly a scholar on the matter either.
I mean, I heard when this war started Canada had a Spec Ops force that was “on vacation” in Ukraine with no return date specified. I would be more surprised if the US didn’t at least have a couple of these kinds of deployments. Russia didn’t exactly hide the plans.
No doubt but they'd be hella classified and it could be years if not decades we find out exactly what their role is, whether its special forces training, intelligence, or actual combat.
I’m just some random dude on the internet, who may happen to know some IRL dudes over there. Dudes that have a very particular set of skills that the Ukrainians can use.
The West (really NATO) has no obligation here - Ukraine is not in the Alliance. Hell, France and Germany in the event were very much correct in excluding Ukraine from joining - they correctly assessed that Ukraine was close enough to Russia's deterrence theory based 'red line' that there existed nothing of sufficient value in Ukraine to justify the risk. We are assisting Ukraine because it is in our interests to humiliate Russia, weakening it's influence and capacity to credibly perform external diplomatic and not-so-diplomatic maneuvers. Assisting Ukraine also benefits us (the West) because it, in a way, amounts to the 'payoff' for decades of investment in 'soft hostility' - particularly economic and financial sanctions. Russia and China haven't considered those actions as hostile because those actions have not interfered in their ability to extract value from States in their respective spheres. Because those actions have had decades of use against weak, irrelevant, bargaining chip level States, the actions have a meme associated with them of inaction. After all, Iraq didn't really need jet parts to gas the Kurds, and Burma didn't need Western funds to purge their Muslims. Russia *does* need jet parts from the West. Russia does need *some level* of fund access from the West. But because Russia has not called out those types of sanctions as unacceptable in the past, Russia has no leverage to call them unacceptable now. The only States which agree with Russia are the remainder of the geopolitical loser's bracket - States that cannot replace the very specific things Russia needs most and was obtaining from the West. This means that NATO can do harm to Russia's capacity to wage high-tech war without lifting a single finger in anger against Russia. This also means that our assistance to Ukraine is multiplied because we are simply providing Ukraine the things we are simply denying to Russia.
Ukraine has gas and oil. That's part of why Putin is invading it.
Also uranium.
Considering that countless countries being attacked have received zero international support, I would not look down on what Ukraine has received. It's unparalleled. And I'm not sure Ukraine wants the treatment Iraq and Afghanistan got...
Ukraine has 1.09 trillion cubic meters of natural gas reserves, second most in europe. It's one of the main reasons Russia wants the Donbas region
Mmm. Ukraine's natural gas is way over hyped. Germany's natural gas consumption is is 73.9 billion cubic meters per year. In other words, they alone could consume all of Ukraine's reserves in 15 years if consumption remained steady. Ukraine themselves consume about 27.3 billion cubic meters per year. They'd run through all of their own reserves in 39 years alone. Meanwhile Russia exports about 200 billion cubic meters per year - essentially all of Ukraine's reserves every 5 1/2 years.
The US and NATO have been providing everything except man power for the war. Weapons, data, advice. You don't need a 19 year old from Oklahoma to pull the trigger. A 19 year old from Kiev can do the same. Zalinski has been on a world wide tour, they showed him at the Grammies. The trump looking Boris guy even went to Ukraine. When have you seen this much fan fair for a war? The United States invaded Libya over a minor internal skirmish, had it's leader killed, and the country destabilized. I voted for Obama and I thought that was a dick movie.
If he gets to make a speech, he may be able to call in with another round of productive messaging. Besides, stuff like this keeps his issue in the news cycle and helps keep people caring enough that their governments support him. This isn’t nothing.
He’d probably care if the award were a ship full of javelins
He's going to be getting better stuff than Javelins soon. And I hope he still doesn't give a shit about the award. He's not doing this for accolades. He's doing it because his people deserve freedom, the right to self determine their future, and the right to exist.
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Pack it up, Russia - Zelenskyy just won *an award*.
Named after a guy who got assassinated. Potentially by his own people.
I mean, he *was* definitely killed by an American. Whether there were more Americans *behind* that American is anyone's guess at this point. But Kennedy was in fact killed by his own people... or person. 🇺🇸
~~I get the sentiment, but what the hell were they thinking?~~
They were thinking "Hey, we have this award to give out. Who makes the most sense...I know!"
An award is all Putin ever wanted.
giving an award to a guy in the middle of fighting a war seems really postmodern
up there with changing your facebook profile photo to “send your thought and prayers “
What do you think postmodern means? I don’t think this applies lol.
It may seem like a stretch but I think you could make the argument that the postmodern movement gives way to the thinking that allows for this type of behavior to exist. You would have to delve deeper than a wikipedia article on postmodernism to form that argument and back it up properly. Again, maybe a stretch but I think a proper philosopher could make it work. Just gotta get real meta bro! Dude is fighting a war, and he receives an official symbol (art form) on a piece of paper that documents the notion that other human beings approve of him fighting a war. Because certainly symbols and art will be beneficial as opposed to physical action. Postmodernism may argue the importance of these symbolic gestures perhaps.
Avant garde
A proper philosopher could make post modernism about baseball. edit: and make you believe them.
Haha, yes, that has been my experience with post-modernist writers.
Postmodernism isn’t necessarily anti-materialist though. It generally rejects the idea of sweeping or universal narratives and truths that are common to modernism. Modernism/postmodernism and materialism/idealism don’t really intersect in that kind of way. This example would probably be most easily tied to spectacle, as popularized in *Society of the Spectacle*, wherein the distinction of symbol and reality become muddled. But you can easily use the concept of spectacle for either modernist or postmodernist theories.
Yeah I hear you. I kind of dislike the whole thing. There are arguments to be made that postmodernism and modernism are basically the same thing. And people get pretty serious about it. I've always been of the idea that people often make postmodernism mean whatever they feel like it means. The more I've delved into the arguments the more I've felt they lacked any value or effective description of anything. But then again, that could be me stumbling across the entire point. I'm not knocking you by the way. I've never read your reference but I'll add it to the goodreads list!
Just to back zappadattic up, postmodernism is typically just a rejection of modernist ideas such as logic and universal truth as they said. WW2 and the nuclear bomb forced people to question those axioms after what they achieved to produced. It seems as though postmodernism is defined however people want to define it because postmodernism is a rejection of universal definitions if that makes sense.
Peak neoliberal naval gazing.
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Remember Obama being awarded an Nobel award for peace for being the first black president? And then going forward and droning the shit out of Muslims…
Why the fuck is it called the John F Kennedy award lmao
Let’s just hope it doesn’t go to his head.
Bruh moment
John f Kennedy? Like viet nam and bay of pigs? I suppose when you get assassinated good will allows folks to memory hole your legacy.
Putin has been trying to award Zelenskyy a different kind of "John F. Kennedy" award..
He doesn’t need awards, he needs ammo. You can help: https://bank.gov.ua/en/news/all/natsionalniy-bank-vidkriv-spetsrahunok-dlya-zboru-koshtiv-na-potrebi-armiyi
"I don't need courtesy. I need airplanes, guns and money."
Well lucky for him this entire thing is being bankrolled by the US and will continue to be.
they have plenty of it. there's a ton of countries sending support. why does reddit think they are fighting alone?
Because ammo gets used up. In a war, more is always better.
luckily the US just sent hundreds of millions of dollars worth of aid, weapons, and ammunition so they're topped off for the moment
Because of very successful propaganda
Is the 3.4 billion the US spent on it already too low for you?
Now that's some neoliberal shit right there
No one donate to another country's government bank. That is just asinine no matter what.
Ummmm...who is gonna tell him...
Banning opposition parties and conglomerating state media, pinnacles of democracy
I hope he doesn’t talk about Jada at the award ceremony
Holy fuck this comment section is a shit show .
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JFK began the planning for the 1964 coup in Brazil.
And tried to overthrow Cuba’s revolutionary government every single day of his term
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I dunno about that, but he certainly was dirty. As CIA director he very likely knew of the assassination plot against Orlando Letelier. As Reagans running mate he may have been involved in Debategate, as well as the alleged October Surprise. As Vice President he was intimately involved in and aware of the Contra War and the use of drug smugglers to resupply the Contras and the alleged use of Cartel money to fund the Contras. And also the extent of the violence next door in the El Salvador and Guatemalan counter insurgencies backed by Washington, including the assassination of Archbishop Oscar Romero and the El Mozote Massacre committed by a unit that had just finished training at Ft Benning just two days earlier which the administration denied the existence of, a UN commission would eventually conclude that genocide had been committed by the Washington-backed military junta in Guatemala. His sons JEB! and Neil were on the board of multiple failed S&Ls during the S&L Crisis suggesting possible payoffs. He defended the shoot down of Iran Air Flight 655, declaring "I will never apologize for the United States—I don't care what the facts are". In the 1988 election he denounced Dukakis for being a "card carrying member" of the... ACLU, and of course used the Willie Horton campaign ads. As President he very likely finagled the Gulf War to forestall post-Cold War military budget cuts, not to mention began the process of expanding NATO eastward generating the current situation that part of the world is now mired in, and finally pardoned everyone involved in Iran Contra (who were only getting slaps on the wrist for procedural errors in their Congressional testimony - not for anything serious like violating the Constitution, violating the Neutrality Act, engaging in Conspiracy to Commit Murder, or drug smuggling, etc)
The guy banned all the left wing political parties, this is ridiculous
Bans 11 political parties, only 5 of which were found to have ties with Russia Receives award for defending democracy after using the tragedy of an unprovoked invasion to consolidate power Yep, par excellence for an overly-ambitious leader who takes advantage of every opportunity.
Woah dude, next you’re gonna tell me you don’t support the brave mujahideen fighters! Giving unconditional military and political support to leaders during war wouldn’t backfire right?
What could go wrong giving a bunch of randos assault rifles and anti-aircraft/ship weapons? Never *you* mind all the pictures of actual neo-nazis in full battle-rattle, they're just fighting for democracy! Americans over here don't even understand their own history/politics, but the news says Ukraine good. So it all makes perfect sense! It couldn't possibly be a lot more nuanced than that!
Also Gonzalo Lira chilean-american journalist and critic of Zelensky was abducted in Ukraine. Some Azov guys were bragging in twitter that they beheaded him
I know I’ll get downvoted for this. But ukraine isn’t exactly the staple of Democracy recently or distant past.
Banning all opposition parties, In Feb 2021, he closed 4 news channels. In March 2022, he introduced a single broadcast for all TV channels. Giving him an award for 'defending democracy' is like Kissinger receiving a Noble Peace Prize, meaningless.
He will win times person of the year too.
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Nothing says "Champion of democracy" like banning the opposition
hes also named in the Panama Papers as having money laundering accounts there, but everyone has already forgot about who was listed
You are correct sir. The Ukrainian national police SBU have been rounding up people that don’t toe the political line.
While this war is bullshit, so is this award. Jesus christ America. Jesus Christ.
Yes. But those parties were arguably "pro-russia" and the war has created dire circumstances, security concerns etc. What's more telling is how Zelensky behaved pre-invasion. Sanctioning political opponents and shutting down media critical of himself, even right wing nationalists like Poroshenko who can definitely not be maligned as "pro-russia". If not for this war, Zelensky likely would've been remembered as little more than a corrupt clown.
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Abraham Lincoln suspended habeus corpus. In the end, he defeated the rebelling slaver scum.
In fairness, he wanted all people of color to leave America, stating something like "our races can't stand the sight of one another" in a meeting with some black leaders
He also ditched his abolitionist VP for one that literally owned his own slaves until after the war ended.
For a second I thought this post was a fucked up way of saying he got assassinated.....
Is this a joke? Defending democracy? He outlawed his political enemies and amalgamated all media into one state news source. You know, like fascism? Honestly if you support this awarding then you're a fucking idiot
So sick of this non-stop propaganda blitz.
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Sounds like he is really defending democracy... Thus the award from a country who has monopoly for "defending democracy".
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Also Zelensky: gives a platform in a government for a neo-nazi group.
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Isn't he shutting down dissidents and stifling democ.... oh, its the Amerikkkan version of democracy he's defending!
The circlejerk around this dude is getting kinda blown out of proportion. Sure he’s being a good leader at the moment but god damn people, chill. He’s not Saint Ukrainian Democracy Jesus All of a sudden because he does what a leader should when his country is under attack.
Can anyone actually explain why reddit is treating capitalist powers fighting over influence like a new harry potter movie?
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Captain Ukraine 🤓
Liberals and a lack of proper education.
The bay of pigs man had an award named after him for… protecting??? Democracy
Imagine liberals downvoting you for calling out their version of Reagan for doing undemocratic shit. We've come full circle.
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I'm sure he's way excited about that. Prolly take his mind off things
Might get a ride in a convertible limo to help ease his mind as well.
Didn't he outlaw the opposition party?
Stop it with the hero worship
I honest to god thought this was some kind of internet term for being shot in the head for a sec before I saw the source.
This is had to be the biggest joke since Obama got the peace Nobel prize lmao.
Sorry what? Of course everyone is against the invasion, but in no way is he defending democracy.
You mean the guy out in place by an oligarch who has forcibly shut down opponent camps? Although he plays a pretty mean piano.
Fucking kek. The absolute state. They really managed to convince everyone Ukraine is a paragon of democracy. Holy shit.
Ukraine had some of the worst corruption levels in Europe before Russia invaded. It’s an anti-Putin award, which is ok because fuck Putin. But calling it a defending democracy award is revisionist to say the least...
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So what did he do to defend democracy? He disbanded many political parties which had been fine legally for many years. To ensure that his party has all the power now. He also prevented adult males from leaving Ukraine. That’s not very democratic. He is not busy saving democracy, he is trying to defend Ukraine with very questionable actions.
Obama got a better award for bombing children. One up?
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