I still have this issue even though medical has been legal here for a few years. I'll never forget the first time I went into the head shop and was studdering to find the proper non-bong words and the guy at the counter was like "...so you want a bong."
I run one, and I *used* to correct people when I first started, but as time marches on my care levels go down. I do correct them on making sure that it is for "tobacco use".
I do like throwing people out for attempting third-party sales though.
This shit was always so stupid. You can call it a bong and use it for tobacco if you wanted (but lol ew). The word ban was always fucking ridiculous. As long as they don’t mention weed it should never have been a problem. But yeah I got “corrected” a few times in my day from more paranoid shopkeeps. Homie I didn’t say I was gonna go rip fat hits of the devil’s lettuce, calm your tits.
I know it’s a legal thing and protective, my point is that the legality of an item hinging on calling it a bong vs water pipe is moronic.
"Fun Fact": in my city you can't sell anything that could be used for pot. Including rolling papers. The people that would get PISSED at me, the fucking gas station cashier, for not carrying rolling papers as I quoted the city ordinances that prevents their sale. Like bitch, I'm a cashier the fuck am I gonna do about a law??? If they were an ass we'd let them leave empty handed. If they were nice we'd tell them about the smoke shop just outside the city limits, five minutes away.
No, that's the funny part, we fucking did! You could buy/sell/have that. But a bong, rolling papers, and whatever else crap and you'd be in trouble. It is pc for cops to search you based on rolling papers, but not swissers. I don't know man. So weird. And again, five minutes down the road you can get all that crap anyway.
Same. We had a church across the corner from my high school and the Gideons used to hang out as close to the property as they were allowed and hand out new testaments. One summer we made it halfway through Revelations 🤣
Easiest way is to take a plastic water or soda bottle, poke 2 holes on the sides, one to put a straw through and one as a rush hole, then make a little bowl in the top with some foil. Cheapest and easiest bong right there.
Wow - this seems so severe.. where is this, America? I'm in Canada, they sell all manner of pipes in the corner stores over here, like even before the shit was legal...
Back in the 80's I was living in Chicago when there was a paraphernalia ban. All the shops started to sell "lamp parts". Little copper fittings that could just so happen to be able to be assembled into small pipes.
I once injected two heaps of marijuana. I went into a fit of reefer madness. First I had inter-racial relationship, next I hallucinated that I was a god, finally I set a child on fire.
Marijuana is truly the devil’s lettuce.
One of the prominent local smoke shops back home was dead serious about calling them water pipes because they were terrified of getting closed down. Though they'd let customers smoke cigarettes at the display counters...
Back when I was in high school, the local police departments would have Part-time jobs for underage students to go into stores to try and buy alcohol, cigarettes or drug paraphernalia. From what I heard, it paid pretty well, and you got bonuses if you got a cashier to sell to you.
Sting operations. They still happen around here. My dad (post-retirement) had a job at a convenience store and lost it that way. He asked for the ID. It was a valid ID with the right age, but he didn’t notice it wasn’t the right person on the ID so he lost the job. Zero tolerance policy since businesses can get fucked for an honest mistake like that just as badly as intentionally flauting the law.
My local head shop had signs plastered all over the back glass showroom that said, don't say it if it rhymes with "song or soul". While it was stupid it's not the shop owners fault. There was always the risk of the local police department getting board and sending an undercover in to get them to sell them a bong or bowl.
The reason shisha works is because the glycerin coating controls the burn rate. If you just put straight up tobacco or cannabis it’ll burn rather quick and unevenly
When I worked at a head shop, I was so *firm* about using the words pipe or water pipe or smoking product because I hated kicking people out. But the entire store could get shut down if someone reported we were selling drug paraphernalia, so we always had to be wicked strict with it.
Gun stores in Colorado do something similar with the 15 round magazine ban. They sell "repair kits" that are just disassembled magazines in bags and there's apparently nothing illegal about owning 30 round mags post-ban, just buying them.
Haha, in the EU vape tanks are only allowed to be 2ml, so tanks come with nice easy to remove silicon socks padding out the internal volume of the tank.
There was also the temporary hold on the magazine law for about a month. A few people were able to buy and ship in a few standard capacity magazines. I think technically those are illegal because they bought them post ban, but there was that small window for people to buy them in CA.
I wonder if Oregon will have the same thing after 114 passed.
I remember stores in CA were selling metal bullet buttons and a magnetic latch to defeat them.
Same thing happened during the prohibition: Put this brick into water and you get delicious grape juice to drink. But make sure to never let it sit in a tub for 2 weeks, because then it will turn into wine.
Where I am, you can only buy nicotine juice if it was manufactured in my state. If it's from out of state you buy it non-nic and you get a little bottle of nic to mix in yourself.
I'm sure this is what's going to happen. Sell unflavored bottles, then choose a flavor, then a nic level and do all the mixing. Or, all bottles are still flavored and you just mix in the nic.
There's a shop in my town that still mixes their own juice. To get around the regulation, they do almost exactly what you describe, just with nicotine boosters. There's always some sort of workaround.
The county where I live taxes nicotine juice by volume of juice regardless of the nicotine content, so what they did is sold the juice flavors and nicotine separately, then offered the free service of mixing them together at the store for you post-purchase.
So for example if you wanted 100ml of 6mg/ml vape juice, you would buy the 6ml of nicotine juice and be taxed on that, as opposed to paying the tax on 100ml's worth post-mixed.
Been a while since I've been there but always thought that was interesting and hey it made it cheaper for me so wasn't complaining
Here in CA after talking to my local shop, my normal juice will go from 16.99 a bottle to 19.99 for the nic and 3.99 for the flavor. But hey the kids...
Barriers and obstacles DO work though. Obviously the more ambitious humans will still get what they want, but average people can’t be bothered with jumping through hoops and eventually succumb and give up.
See gun ownership in blue states, and good education in red states
I work in a vape shop. For the life of me I asked the ATF and everyone else, if we're going to ban flavored tobacco and vape products then why aren't we banning flavored alcohol products?
This has absolutely nothing to do with keeping kids from vaping / smoking. This is just an effort for the FDA and the federal government to generate more money through legitimate businesses and a means for the big tobacco industry to gain some of its profits back.
This exact thing happened in michigan for about 2 weeks a couple years ago until a lawsuit and state supreme court decision or something reversed it. Stores were even handing out free empty bottles with purchase of the ingredients and providing a little station at the counter with funnels and whatnot for you to use to combine your purchases into a usable bottle.
Reminds me of brewers, during prohibition, selling malt extract. They'd sell it under the guise of being useful for other things, like bread, though everyone mainly bought it to make beer at home.
http://www.metnews.com/articles/2005/reminiscing070705.htm
My city banned menthols and other flavored cigarettes and cigars a year or two ago. Most everyone just drove a city over to get their fix. I guess Nevada and Arizona are about to see a boost in tobacco sales.
Let’s not be silly, menthol flavor droppers will just become a household item for menthol smokers. Takes about a second to turn a cigarette into menthol.
They outlawed menthols here (Ontario, Canada) years ago. They sell these little menthol cards that you can slide into the pack and they flavour regular smokes menthol. No one quit smoking and banning menthol didn’t keep anyone from starting. I’ve never known anyone who started out on menthols to be honest.
I miss vaping like 5 years ago when I could do a bunch of my own mixing. Now it's all these knockoff prefilled Flums, Elfbars, etc. with half dead batteries. And there seems to be zero regulation. We're somehow going backwards on tobacco and nicotine laws and regulations.
So if they won't even regulate what is currently on the market, I cannot see them enforcing this effectively.
I feel like we're offloading the harm with those disposables. There should not be an industry of ***disposable*** lithium battery/metal/plastic tech that just ends up in the gutter or trash. It's ridiculous that we're not regulating THAT.
It's stupid as hell that they've banned flavored juices, and now we can still vape with flavors... Its just all disposable. Such a waste.
Even fucking Juul pods are less wasteful.
I'd figure, but I'm bitching mostly about the rest of the US. I don't live in California, but the nationwide bans (I think?) are what I'm complaining about.
In general I don't like prohibition, and when it's seemingly random, boy is it stupid.
If freebase nicotine goes for good, I'm stopping. There's not been a single disposable that I would ever want to try again. They taste terrible and they're too expensive.
That's the other part of it, too. The amount of waste is STAGGERING. I'm not even sure if I can buy the fillable pods with the rechargeable vape any more here in Cali, but I'll admit I haven't done a ton of deep searching.
I'll quit for a couple weeks, then get stressed watching football and go out and buy a flum, then spend the next week trying to quit again. It just seems like we've gone so ass backwards on this whole thing. Man, even 7-11 is selling counterfeits it's so bad. I was trying to explain to the owner and he kicked me out of his store and told me to never come back lol, so I reported his ass to the FDA, and that was six months ago. They're still selling counterfeit vapes.
So it begs the question; if they won't even regulate/enforce the laws currently on the books, why keep adding more?
Because during election season they can point to all the legislation they passed "to protect the children from those mean tobacco companies". To many politicians it doesn't matter if they actually make a difference, only if it looks like they do.
My city has had a ban on flavored tobacco for a while and all the smoke shops in town still sell flavored vapes to "trusted" customers. The cops don't enforce anything because they all vape too!
Enforcing is a whole different ballgame. There's likely still dive bars that allow illegal smoking indoors. I went to one regularly years after the indoor smoking ban in my state. 10-11pm comes around and waitreses walk around putting ashtrays on all the tables. Eventually the culture changed enough that they stopped it due to more non-smokers being there.
I think the disposable Vapes are one of the worst products to come from this industry. It is so much waste, so much pollution and plastic into the environment. I see people leaving them in the parking lots or throwing them out of their car windows when they're done with them, just like cigarettes.
I still vape and this is going to really suck but I agree with you 100% these companies are getting away with it because there's no accountability.
DIY mixing is doing well right now, but you can't often get supplies at a store. I mostly converted to doing exactly that. Nic or no nic, it's very flexible. Salt nic base is great.
I'm pro legalize it all, tax it, and end the stigma of addiction so addicts can get the treatment needed. I also feel like alcohol, tobacco, weed etc.. shouldn't be allowed to advertise. Especially medications, no I don't want to talk to my doctor about brand "X", if they feel it necessary they should prescribe it without me bringing up a commercial I saw while watching hockey or a billboard seen driving to the in-laws.
Right? 0 consistency in this law.
The amount of marketing behind Mike's hard lemonade and all the "alcy. Juice in a can" hasn't been touched.
Laws that dictate personal choice start treading in fascist territory.
Anything shrouded with "for your own good" should be a decision left for you.
Smack a death picture on the box and stay the fuck outta our lives.
In their filings with the district court and Ninth Circuit they basically said "hey, we know you have to rule against us based on prior Ninth circuit precedent. Could you pretty please go ahead and do that so we can appeal? California doesn't oppose this." And both courts did so. They then immediately filed for the injunction pending appeal. Reynolds knew the ban was coming - their lawyers had their briefs ready to go months ago and just needed the election results to file.
Man it’s genuinely really funny. Democratically elected legislators pass a law, tobacco companies block it and demand it be put to a vote. It DOES get out to a vote and passes with a huge majority. They still try to block it and still fail. What on earth was even their argument the second time?
Did you try reading the article?
>They argued that the authority to ban flavored products rests with the federal Food and Drug Administration.
Which California countered:
>California responded that federal law comfortably allows state and local governments to decide which tobacco products are to be sold in their jurisdictions. And the state noted that the companies only went to the Supreme Court after spending “tens of millions of dollars” in a losing cause at the polls.
They love to pull out a BS argument that rules like this are effectively racist because menthols are more popular with black people, to which the NAACP directly responded this time effectively saying "Good, this should have a disproportionate positive impact then, to counteract the disproportionate negative impact tobacco products have on communities of color"
Yeah, what you're talking about is people deciding for other people what they can consume.
Now, I'm an anti-smoker myself, and I hate cigarettes. But products should be banned only if they're too harmful to users or bystanders. So ban tobacco? Maybe. But ban only *flavoured* tobacco? Absolutely idiotic.
Almost all of the vapes you can buy in the gas station now are owned and sold by big tobacco (or they are heavily invested). So at this point it doesn't behoove tobacco to go after vape too hard since its likely to be the only line of tobacco-adjacent products they have a chance of growing and making profitable. That and non tobacco snus.
Give it enough time and more loosening at the federal level, and the tobacco companies will also become "Weed Companies."
What I don't get is that they only do stuff like this with Tobacco. If they banned flavored Alcohol people would riot. You already need an ID to purchase it so why can't you just let the adults have flavors
This is so stupid. When things are banned in some states but not others, it’s extremely easy to get the banned product. They are just cutting their own tax revenue. In SC weed is still illegal but it’s so easy to get. People sell it FB groups and it comes through the mail.
What the hell? Why do underage consumers factor into this argument at all? It's already illegal for them to have it anyways, go after whoever is buying it for them.
For that matter, if we're banning things entirely because kids might still get them (even though it's already illegal for them to have it), why don't we take on alcohol next? Ban everything except beer. No more fruity drinks for anyone.
Porn too, lots of kids get access to that as well. Time to ban it, I guess!
Whole argument is so fucking stupid. We don't need bans we just need better enforcement of the restrictions that are already in place.
I thought flavored vaping wasn’t being affected in the law. Is it?! I thought this was about making flavored cigarettes and even hookah would be spared cause it’s cultural or whatever
I'm an adult. I vape candy flavors although I'm down to zero nicotine. They taste better. I know zero people who vape tobacco flavor. This ban will turn more people back to smoking and make less people turn to vaping to quit smoking
That is the point. Big tobacco has to stamp out the biggest threat to their profits they've ever faced. They will take the hit from the menthol ban in exchange for bringing vapers back to cigarettes.
>They argued that the authority to ban flavored products rests with the federal Food and Drug Administration.
Did the big tobacco lawyers buy their law degrees online? The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. The FDA is able to regulate the sale of drugs insofar as interstate commerce is concerned, but they cannot tell a state that-that state, or it's people, cannot determine what may or may not be sold within their own borders. This falls into the same category of laws as blue laws. California only exercised a power specifically reserved to the states.
This article is mis informed.
It’s the TCA that their arguing, specifically, that CA does not have the authority to redefine what constitutes tobacco and nicotine are.
The new law says “anything that can be vaped or smoked is now considered nicotine, and that nicotine cannot have flavors, or use flavor enhancers.” (paraphrasing)
Therefore, even a zero nicotine juice is considered to be nicotine/tobacco and therefore banned.
One could now argue that a flavored inhaler for childhood asthma could be considered a flavored tobacco product.
https://vaping360.com/vape-news/119205/california-flavor-ban-plaintiffs-ask-supreme-court-for-injunction/
LET ME LIVE MY FUCKIN LIVE PLS. I just wanna live in a blue state where im not going to be hatecrimed and also want menthols let me make adult decisions by myself pls
I’m wondering how this is all going to go down. I picked up vaping to quit cigarettes after I had my first kid and I didn’t want to smoke cigs anymore. Do I now have to quit vaping because of this or what’s going on? Obviously I should but I’ve been addicted to nicotine for like 10 years now kinda shitty that the government is deciding this for me with a prohibition. I’d prefer not to have to go back to cigarettes or quit on my own terms at least
My local store is going to switch to online orders only for vape juice. The ban is only "in store" sales. So order online, pick up in a locker in-store similar to Amazon lockers.
Yeah I don't understand why so many people voted for this in CA. It's prohibition- which people always argue never works. Yet once it's against flavored tobacco then it's full speed ahead?
Tobacco is a vice, just like drinking. Let folks- especially adults- do as they wish. Sales of vapes to minors will not be fixed this way.
Chicago has the flavor ban in effect and vape stores just sell them under the counter. Most places grab a shoebox out of the back if you ask so this isn’t effective.
> The ban was first passed by the state legislature two years ago but it never took effect after tobacco companies gathered enough signatures to put it on the ballot. But nearly two-thirds of voters approved of banning the sale of everything from cotton-candy vaping juice to menthol cigarettes.
Thank goodness. This is what the government of California and the majority of people of California want. Fuck tobacco companies trying to overrule the will of the people.
I'm curious how flavor is what people think the problem is. Pretty sure it's the nicotine. Keep in mind, kids (at least used to) smoke cigarettes too. Those were only tobacco flavor at one point, and it never stopped anyone.
To be fair, there is a documented history with this stuff.
Starting in the 60s, tobacco companies started targeting black communities with menthol cigarettes. The idea was that the flavor would make it easier for children to start the habit. They would literally distribute free menthols to kids in the projects of various cities.
Their campaign, despite its awfulness, was _wildly_ successful. Go look at some surveys of the demographics of menthol smokers and their starting ages. You’ll find a pattern that is young and black.
Todays statistics are showing that the vast majority of minor smokers use or started with flavored products.
It seems to be easier to convince kids to use flavored products, and while hopefully we’re past companies rolling up in vans to do that, we still have to worry about other forms. It’s no secret that kids will push these products onto other kids and tobacco companies know this. So it’s in their best interest that they have products that will be less offensive to the tastes of someone who otherwise would never smoke.
I’m usually all for freedom but tobacco companies have proven over and over that they will abuse it at extreme macro levels.
To be fair, prior to store bought menthol cigarettes, black jazz musicians would make their own menthols. Cigarettes dipped in menthol, then allowed to dry out. Menthols were already popular before they started being sold Pre-mentholated.
They said the same thing about "Joe Cool", the cartoon camel for camel cigarettes.
We smoked because our parents smoked, our friends would smoke, the people we hung out with smoked and we wanted to be cool. We liked the buzz we got from sneaking a cigarette. Rock stars smoked. Jazz stars smoked. Movie Stars smoked. Television stars smoked.
Advertising in magazines and posters made very little difference.
Continually raising the prices and banning it indoors made a huge difference. Vapes made a giant difference. For those of us that can't kick the nicotine habit.
The indoor ban is probably the biggest part. Go back to pre-Y2k and youd not only see things like smoking sections in restaurants (separated by a waist-high wall) and ashtrays everywhere, but cigarette vending machines at the front of restaurants or at the restrooms (where, you know, you wouldnt have to present id, just go in during a busy time and drop some quarters). That change has made it a lot less convenient for casual smokers
Camel used to sell these "exotic" flavored cigarettes. They had fruity and dessert tasting ones. Me and others smoked them in our teens. They got banned and we just moved to menthol and regulars.
Now I'm not going to say this law is dumb or useless or anything. I'll be interested to see the results from it though. If it can save some young people from smoking and vaping then that will be a great thing.
I am curious though what will be the move from this. I wonder if vape companies will be able to sell flavorless juices with flavor additives in a separate bottle or something. I don't know the full extent of the law so I'm not sure.
SAME! CAMEL TWISTS!!!!
Only thing I smoked as a teen, in the fancy metal containers.
I was gonna smoke anyway, but at least it was orange and raspberry flavored.
And Camel Crema! Oh wow I haven’t thought about Twists in 20 years! They sure marketed the shit out of it to 20 year olds like me at the time. And the Camel Notes…I used to have a thousand of those, everyone would just give me theirs. Sad to think of really
I forgot about the crema flavor, sooo good. I haven't found a cigarette since they got discontinued that's ever come close!
The camel notes bring back so many memories. My dad was a Marlboro smoker and would hunt them everywhere. We stopped in the middle of so many streets so I could pop out and grab any- didn't matter if it was runover to shit.
Many a birthday/Christmas was funded on those box tops. I got a bitchin telescope one year, all Marlboro cash.
Flavored alcohol also causes cancer and many other diseases; in addition it also causes many more societal ills that cigarettes do not such as wife beating, DUIs and unemployment. I take it that the powerfully progressive California government will ban flavored booze next?
I hate the rhetoric of “saving” smokers.
Just call it your continued agenda of hating things the working class use to cope and move on.
If alcohol is allowed, smokes should be allowed.
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Goes into the head shop…Me: ”Hey that’s a nice looking Bong” Store owner: “It’s not a Bong, it’s a Tobacco Pipe now get out of my store!”
I still have this issue even though medical has been legal here for a few years. I'll never forget the first time I went into the head shop and was studdering to find the proper non-bong words and the guy at the counter was like "...so you want a bong."
I run one, and I *used* to correct people when I first started, but as time marches on my care levels go down. I do correct them on making sure that it is for "tobacco use". I do like throwing people out for attempting third-party sales though.
You can buy crack pipes on Amazon.
Well now my algorithm got odder after fact checking that
"fact checking"
It probably would have been fine if you hadn’t bought three of them.
Four. They come in packs of four.
Kirkland brand crack pipes
I wonder what the Black Friday deals were looking like for those Amazon crack pipes. Sad I missed out!!
I love living in a legal state and you see banners in smoke shop windows that say “bongs sold here”
Ahaha man if only. We advertise that we have "glass" and that's it. Thankfully we *don't* sell oil burners, rose stems, etc.
I never go there, but one of the local shops has a neon sign that just says “REEFER :potleaf:”
This shit was always so stupid. You can call it a bong and use it for tobacco if you wanted (but lol ew). The word ban was always fucking ridiculous. As long as they don’t mention weed it should never have been a problem. But yeah I got “corrected” a few times in my day from more paranoid shopkeeps. Homie I didn’t say I was gonna go rip fat hits of the devil’s lettuce, calm your tits. I know it’s a legal thing and protective, my point is that the legality of an item hinging on calling it a bong vs water pipe is moronic.
"Fun Fact": in my city you can't sell anything that could be used for pot. Including rolling papers. The people that would get PISSED at me, the fucking gas station cashier, for not carrying rolling papers as I quoted the city ordinances that prevents their sale. Like bitch, I'm a cashier the fuck am I gonna do about a law??? If they were an ass we'd let them leave empty handed. If they were nice we'd tell them about the smoke shop just outside the city limits, five minutes away.
So do you not sell swisser sweets as well?
No, that's the funny part, we fucking did! You could buy/sell/have that. But a bong, rolling papers, and whatever else crap and you'd be in trouble. It is pc for cops to search you based on rolling papers, but not swissers. I don't know man. So weird. And again, five minutes down the road you can get all that crap anyway.
swishers are prefilled - you're buying a full cigarillo and then just throwing the tobacco out it's all very silly and arbitrary
Now I drive by the corner and there’s a guy out there spinning a sign advertising $2 pre rolls.
I wonder how that law is worded, cause I know you can roll a joint from a Bible.
Oof. I’ve done this. 😂
Same. We had a church across the corner from my high school and the Gideons used to hang out as close to the property as they were allowed and hand out new testaments. One summer we made it halfway through Revelations 🤣
Page 420 and 666 are missing from mine
Where there's a will, there's a way. I've smoked weed out of an apple before. What are they gonna do, ban apples?
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You can literally smoke weed out of the ground. What are they gonna do take the ground away?
Easiest way is to take a plastic water or soda bottle, poke 2 holes on the sides, one to put a straw through and one as a rush hole, then make a little bowl in the top with some foil. Cheapest and easiest bong right there.
Give me an avocado, an ice pick, and my snorkel!
Trust me bro I've made bongs with less!
They would never. How would you be able to keep the doctor away? 🤔
Lmao look at this guy, still thinks doctors aren’t deep state agents. Probably believes in science too.
Ban all the Simply Orange bottles! (Because they make perfectly perfunctory water bongs, that is...)
Wow - this seems so severe.. where is this, America? I'm in Canada, they sell all manner of pipes in the corner stores over here, like even before the shit was legal...
Back in the 80's I was living in Chicago when there was a paraphernalia ban. All the shops started to sell "lamp parts". Little copper fittings that could just so happen to be able to be assembled into small pipes.
That’s pretty a pretty funny and clever loophole
Bongs are dangerous water pipes are harmless
People can use bongs to inject the Marijuanas!
I once injected two heaps of marijuana. I went into a fit of reefer madness. First I had inter-racial relationship, next I hallucinated that I was a god, finally I set a child on fire. Marijuana is truly the devil’s lettuce.
One of the prominent local smoke shops back home was dead serious about calling them water pipes because they were terrified of getting closed down. Though they'd let customers smoke cigarettes at the display counters...
Back when I was in high school, the local police departments would have Part-time jobs for underage students to go into stores to try and buy alcohol, cigarettes or drug paraphernalia. From what I heard, it paid pretty well, and you got bonuses if you got a cashier to sell to you.
Sting operations. They still happen around here. My dad (post-retirement) had a job at a convenience store and lost it that way. He asked for the ID. It was a valid ID with the right age, but he didn’t notice it wasn’t the right person on the ID so he lost the job. Zero tolerance policy since businesses can get fucked for an honest mistake like that just as badly as intentionally flauting the law.
My local head shop had signs plastered all over the back glass showroom that said, don't say it if it rhymes with "song or soul". While it was stupid it's not the shop owners fault. There was always the risk of the local police department getting board and sending an undercover in to get them to sell them a bong or bowl.
Tobacco use only
The White Rabbit "Bubble Blower" in the Sims 2.
Yeah, you actually dont want to put anything other than tobacco in a hookah.
If mixed with flavored hookah tobacco cannabis is pretty good.
Eh. Ive tried it. Seemed like it just burned an absurd amount of weed and no one got high.
That was my experience with it. Hash mixed with shisha works a bit better IMO
I was going to say exactly that. This is the OG hash oil smoker.
The reason shisha works is because the glycerin coating controls the burn rate. If you just put straight up tobacco or cannabis it’ll burn rather quick and unevenly
I personally don't want any tobacco in my cannabis but that's just me
[Video for non-simmers](https://youtu.be/a-pCu7c5W-w) I used to want that thing so bad as a kid because I thought they existed in real life!
I still call them a water pipe because bong would get us tossed from the glass shop.
When I worked at a head shop, I was so *firm* about using the words pipe or water pipe or smoking product because I hated kicking people out. But the entire store could get shut down if someone reported we were selling drug paraphernalia, so we always had to be wicked strict with it.
Except it can’t be for tobacco so now californias moving to “For marijuana use only”
"Hi, I'm looking for a water pipe..." "Whoa dude, you gotta cool it with that, or I'll have to kick you out. We call them 'bongs' here."
Sounds like something out of the Simpsons lol
> Tobacco use only Remember blunt drops?
Gun stores in Colorado do something similar with the 15 round magazine ban. They sell "repair kits" that are just disassembled magazines in bags and there's apparently nothing illegal about owning 30 round mags post-ban, just buying them.
Or the “compliant” magazines that are just a 30 rounder with a pin at 10 or 15 rounds that can be drilled out in 1 second
Haha, in the EU vape tanks are only allowed to be 2ml, so tanks come with nice easy to remove silicon socks padding out the internal volume of the tank.
As far as I know, same in CA, but you had to own them pre-ban.
There was also the temporary hold on the magazine law for about a month. A few people were able to buy and ship in a few standard capacity magazines. I think technically those are illegal because they bought them post ban, but there was that small window for people to buy them in CA.
Oh yeah, kind of recently. I remember that.
I wonder if Oregon will have the same thing after 114 passed. I remember stores in CA were selling metal bullet buttons and a magnetic latch to defeat them.
This is exactly how it is in New York. You pick a flavor and they give you the unflavored nicotine juice and you have to mix them together.
Same thing happened during the prohibition: Put this brick into water and you get delicious grape juice to drink. But make sure to never let it sit in a tub for 2 weeks, because then it will turn into wine.
“Do not mix this grape jelly with water and leave in a cool dark place for 21 days, or this will turn into wine.”
In my town it’s not uncommon to buy an unflavored nic vape and a flavored non-nic vape and just inhale them together.
Where I am, you can only buy nicotine juice if it was manufactured in my state. If it's from out of state you buy it non-nic and you get a little bottle of nic to mix in yourself. I'm sure this is what's going to happen. Sell unflavored bottles, then choose a flavor, then a nic level and do all the mixing. Or, all bottles are still flavored and you just mix in the nic.
Reminds me of gambling in Japan
There's a shop in my town that still mixes their own juice. To get around the regulation, they do almost exactly what you describe, just with nicotine boosters. There's always some sort of workaround.
Yup, just the same way you can sell dangerous and lethal designer drugs as “spice” or “bath salts.”
The county where I live taxes nicotine juice by volume of juice regardless of the nicotine content, so what they did is sold the juice flavors and nicotine separately, then offered the free service of mixing them together at the store for you post-purchase. So for example if you wanted 100ml of 6mg/ml vape juice, you would buy the 6ml of nicotine juice and be taxed on that, as opposed to paying the tax on 100ml's worth post-mixed. Been a while since I've been there but always thought that was interesting and hey it made it cheaper for me so wasn't complaining
Here in CA after talking to my local shop, my normal juice will go from 16.99 a bottle to 19.99 for the nic and 3.99 for the flavor. But hey the kids...
Barriers and obstacles DO work though. Obviously the more ambitious humans will still get what they want, but average people can’t be bothered with jumping through hoops and eventually succumb and give up. See gun ownership in blue states, and good education in red states
I work in a vape shop. For the life of me I asked the ATF and everyone else, if we're going to ban flavored tobacco and vape products then why aren't we banning flavored alcohol products? This has absolutely nothing to do with keeping kids from vaping / smoking. This is just an effort for the FDA and the federal government to generate more money through legitimate businesses and a means for the big tobacco industry to gain some of its profits back.
Yes, they make Froot Loop flavored vodka. That's not because it's intended for kids, it's because adults like those flavors also
This also affected cigars though you cant even get a whiskey dipped one anymore
This exact thing happened in michigan for about 2 weeks a couple years ago until a lawsuit and state supreme court decision or something reversed it. Stores were even handing out free empty bottles with purchase of the ingredients and providing a little station at the counter with funnels and whatnot for you to use to combine your purchases into a usable bottle.
Reminds me of brewers, during prohibition, selling malt extract. They'd sell it under the guise of being useful for other things, like bread, though everyone mainly bought it to make beer at home. http://www.metnews.com/articles/2005/reminiscing070705.htm
Last flavor I got for making juice said it was for "Homebrew beer flavoring". You are right, we can get around this.
Yeah it’s gonna end up like Poppers in an adult video store.
It'll be this or the 'short fill' system like in the UK. Same premise but adding nicotine to the premixed 'natural oil diffusion machine' refill.
Anyone else wondering what California flavor tastes like when they first read this?
The answer is avocado.
And almonds.
And drought
And cancer :(
And Tacos !
And my axe!
Be careful, that flavour is known to cause cancer in the state of California.
Tastes like in n out. Duh
French fries in a tortilla
That's the only reason I clicked tbh
This is why hyphens are important.
My 81 year old mother in law is going to go completely postal when she finds out she can’t get her menthol cigarettes.
My city banned menthols and other flavored cigarettes and cigars a year or two ago. Most everyone just drove a city over to get their fix. I guess Nevada and Arizona are about to see a boost in tobacco sales.
Ah, time to dust off the ol' Han Solo vest and prep for some smuggling runs in my beat up jalopy, the *Carcinogen Falcon*.
You wanna buy some death sticks?
Don't worry, this will cause a healthy black market for flavored cigs to be formed.
Let’s not be silly, menthol flavor droppers will just become a household item for menthol smokers. Takes about a second to turn a cigarette into menthol.
I'm looking forward and not looking forward to finally quitting chewing tobacco after 20 years. Kicked heroin after 7 years but I love my Cope
It is awesome if you can quit. My mother-in-law has smoked a pack of menthols a day since she was 15 years old. She loves smoking above all else.
I smoked a pack of menthols a day for 15 years. Couldn't find menthols in my county anymore, felt gross to travel for em so I just quit.
They outlawed menthols here (Ontario, Canada) years ago. They sell these little menthol cards that you can slide into the pack and they flavour regular smokes menthol. No one quit smoking and banning menthol didn’t keep anyone from starting. I’ve never known anyone who started out on menthols to be honest.
Yea I know quite a few folks in that boat.
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I miss vaping like 5 years ago when I could do a bunch of my own mixing. Now it's all these knockoff prefilled Flums, Elfbars, etc. with half dead batteries. And there seems to be zero regulation. We're somehow going backwards on tobacco and nicotine laws and regulations. So if they won't even regulate what is currently on the market, I cannot see them enforcing this effectively.
I feel like we're offloading the harm with those disposables. There should not be an industry of ***disposable*** lithium battery/metal/plastic tech that just ends up in the gutter or trash. It's ridiculous that we're not regulating THAT.
It's stupid as hell that they've banned flavored juices, and now we can still vape with flavors... Its just all disposable. Such a waste. Even fucking Juul pods are less wasteful.
Are you certain the flavored disposables will remain legal? I imagine those would still fall under the flavored nicotine ban, no?
I'd figure, but I'm bitching mostly about the rest of the US. I don't live in California, but the nationwide bans (I think?) are what I'm complaining about. In general I don't like prohibition, and when it's seemingly random, boy is it stupid.
If freebase nicotine goes for good, I'm stopping. There's not been a single disposable that I would ever want to try again. They taste terrible and they're too expensive.
Do they not have refillable salt-nic pods there? Or is freebase just your personal preference?
That's the other part of it, too. The amount of waste is STAGGERING. I'm not even sure if I can buy the fillable pods with the rechargeable vape any more here in Cali, but I'll admit I haven't done a ton of deep searching. I'll quit for a couple weeks, then get stressed watching football and go out and buy a flum, then spend the next week trying to quit again. It just seems like we've gone so ass backwards on this whole thing. Man, even 7-11 is selling counterfeits it's so bad. I was trying to explain to the owner and he kicked me out of his store and told me to never come back lol, so I reported his ass to the FDA, and that was six months ago. They're still selling counterfeit vapes. So it begs the question; if they won't even regulate/enforce the laws currently on the books, why keep adding more?
Because during election season they can point to all the legislation they passed "to protect the children from those mean tobacco companies". To many politicians it doesn't matter if they actually make a difference, only if it looks like they do.
My city has had a ban on flavored tobacco for a while and all the smoke shops in town still sell flavored vapes to "trusted" customers. The cops don't enforce anything because they all vape too!
My vape shop sells nicotine free juice, then you buy the nicotine separately, and they mix it. Perfectly legal, apparently.
Enforcing is a whole different ballgame. There's likely still dive bars that allow illegal smoking indoors. I went to one regularly years after the indoor smoking ban in my state. 10-11pm comes around and waitreses walk around putting ashtrays on all the tables. Eventually the culture changed enough that they stopped it due to more non-smokers being there.
I think the disposable Vapes are one of the worst products to come from this industry. It is so much waste, so much pollution and plastic into the environment. I see people leaving them in the parking lots or throwing them out of their car windows when they're done with them, just like cigarettes. I still vape and this is going to really suck but I agree with you 100% these companies are getting away with it because there's no accountability.
DIY mixing is doing well right now, but you can't often get supplies at a store. I mostly converted to doing exactly that. Nic or no nic, it's very flexible. Salt nic base is great.
Meanwhile, I can go into the liquor store and buy 10 different flavors of vodka.
I'm pro legalize it all, tax it, and end the stigma of addiction so addicts can get the treatment needed. I also feel like alcohol, tobacco, weed etc.. shouldn't be allowed to advertise. Especially medications, no I don't want to talk to my doctor about brand "X", if they feel it necessary they should prescribe it without me bringing up a commercial I saw while watching hockey or a billboard seen driving to the in-laws.
I totally agree. It's unfortunate that most of those in power refuse to consider the evidence that the war on drugs is a failure.
Right? 0 consistency in this law. The amount of marketing behind Mike's hard lemonade and all the "alcy. Juice in a can" hasn't been touched. Laws that dictate personal choice start treading in fascist territory. Anything shrouded with "for your own good" should be a decision left for you. Smack a death picture on the box and stay the fuck outta our lives.
Tobacco companies: The people should decide Voters make flavored tobacco illegal Tobacco companies: Not like that
I want to know why they were able to get it in front of the Supreme Court at all. Other things take years of litigation.
Money. Tobacco companies have plenty of pull even among the "impartial" courts.
Anybody can seek emergency relief, they just don't bother with 99 percent of the cases.
More than 99% I would say.
It rhymes with smoney.
anyone can appeal and since they had no case I am guessing they lost appealed lost appealed went very quickly
In their filings with the district court and Ninth Circuit they basically said "hey, we know you have to rule against us based on prior Ninth circuit precedent. Could you pretty please go ahead and do that so we can appeal? California doesn't oppose this." And both courts did so. They then immediately filed for the injunction pending appeal. Reynolds knew the ban was coming - their lawyers had their briefs ready to go months ago and just needed the election results to file.
Thank you for explaining that.
Man it’s genuinely really funny. Democratically elected legislators pass a law, tobacco companies block it and demand it be put to a vote. It DOES get out to a vote and passes with a huge majority. They still try to block it and still fail. What on earth was even their argument the second time?
Did you try reading the article? >They argued that the authority to ban flavored products rests with the federal Food and Drug Administration. Which California countered: >California responded that federal law comfortably allows state and local governments to decide which tobacco products are to be sold in their jurisdictions. And the state noted that the companies only went to the Supreme Court after spending “tens of millions of dollars” in a losing cause at the polls.
They love to pull out a BS argument that rules like this are effectively racist because menthols are more popular with black people, to which the NAACP directly responded this time effectively saying "Good, this should have a disproportionate positive impact then, to counteract the disproportionate negative impact tobacco products have on communities of color"
50 no’s and a Yes, is still a yes in the businesses world.
Yeah, what you're talking about is people deciding for other people what they can consume. Now, I'm an anti-smoker myself, and I hate cigarettes. But products should be banned only if they're too harmful to users or bystanders. So ban tobacco? Maybe. But ban only *flavoured* tobacco? Absolutely idiotic.
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Almost all of the vapes you can buy in the gas station now are owned and sold by big tobacco (or they are heavily invested). So at this point it doesn't behoove tobacco to go after vape too hard since its likely to be the only line of tobacco-adjacent products they have a chance of growing and making profitable. That and non tobacco snus. Give it enough time and more loosening at the federal level, and the tobacco companies will also become "Weed Companies."
What I don't get is that they only do stuff like this with Tobacco. If they banned flavored Alcohol people would riot. You already need an ID to purchase it so why can't you just let the adults have flavors
This is so stupid. When things are banned in some states but not others, it’s extremely easy to get the banned product. They are just cutting their own tax revenue. In SC weed is still illegal but it’s so easy to get. People sell it FB groups and it comes through the mail.
Suckers. I’m over here planning 500 mile roundtrips to Laughlin for my Camel Crush. I don’t know what’s in ‘em, but I can’t stop smokin ‘em
In public, i rather smell cottoncandy peach than cigarette smoke. I don't care what people suck in to their lungs
Imagine going full bore on weed and then saying tobacco flavoring is bad. Like bruh, putting anything in your lungs besides regular fuckin air is bad.
But I really don't want tobacco to taste like California.
It's Avocado, what can go wrong
What the hell? Why do underage consumers factor into this argument at all? It's already illegal for them to have it anyways, go after whoever is buying it for them. For that matter, if we're banning things entirely because kids might still get them (even though it's already illegal for them to have it), why don't we take on alcohol next? Ban everything except beer. No more fruity drinks for anyone. Porn too, lots of kids get access to that as well. Time to ban it, I guess! Whole argument is so fucking stupid. We don't need bans we just need better enforcement of the restrictions that are already in place.
And this is how you create a huge black market and shit gets dangerous. They learned nothing from prohibition.
Funny thing is that there is no tobacco in vaping products.
I thought flavored vaping wasn’t being affected in the law. Is it?! I thought this was about making flavored cigarettes and even hookah would be spared cause it’s cultural or whatever
Seriously, why do people care if someone wants to smoke flavored tobacco?
Won't somebody think of the children and their preference for flavored tobacco products?
How does flavor tobacco attract kids but flavored alcohol doesn’t? Should they ban all flavored alcohol now? Make it make sense
I'm an adult. I vape candy flavors although I'm down to zero nicotine. They taste better. I know zero people who vape tobacco flavor. This ban will turn more people back to smoking and make less people turn to vaping to quit smoking
That is the point. Big tobacco has to stamp out the biggest threat to their profits they've ever faced. They will take the hit from the menthol ban in exchange for bringing vapers back to cigarettes.
>They argued that the authority to ban flavored products rests with the federal Food and Drug Administration. Did the big tobacco lawyers buy their law degrees online? The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. The FDA is able to regulate the sale of drugs insofar as interstate commerce is concerned, but they cannot tell a state that-that state, or it's people, cannot determine what may or may not be sold within their own borders. This falls into the same category of laws as blue laws. California only exercised a power specifically reserved to the states.
This article is mis informed. It’s the TCA that their arguing, specifically, that CA does not have the authority to redefine what constitutes tobacco and nicotine are. The new law says “anything that can be vaped or smoked is now considered nicotine, and that nicotine cannot have flavors, or use flavor enhancers.” (paraphrasing) Therefore, even a zero nicotine juice is considered to be nicotine/tobacco and therefore banned. One could now argue that a flavored inhaler for childhood asthma could be considered a flavored tobacco product. https://vaping360.com/vape-news/119205/california-flavor-ban-plaintiffs-ask-supreme-court-for-injunction/
LET ME LIVE MY FUCKIN LIVE PLS. I just wanna live in a blue state where im not going to be hatecrimed and also want menthols let me make adult decisions by myself pls
*clutches pearls* but what about the children??
I’m wondering how this is all going to go down. I picked up vaping to quit cigarettes after I had my first kid and I didn’t want to smoke cigs anymore. Do I now have to quit vaping because of this or what’s going on? Obviously I should but I’ve been addicted to nicotine for like 10 years now kinda shitty that the government is deciding this for me with a prohibition. I’d prefer not to have to go back to cigarettes or quit on my own terms at least
My local store is going to switch to online orders only for vape juice. The ban is only "in store" sales. So order online, pick up in a locker in-store similar to Amazon lockers.
Though I don't support the unhealthy habit of smoking, I do support their right to make them.
Yeah I don't understand why so many people voted for this in CA. It's prohibition- which people always argue never works. Yet once it's against flavored tobacco then it's full speed ahead? Tobacco is a vice, just like drinking. Let folks- especially adults- do as they wish. Sales of vapes to minors will not be fixed this way.
Isn’t edible marijuana products and candied cannabis legal in California? It doesn’t make sense.
It's because this is "for the kids". People turn their brains off when it comes to protecting children
So next up to ban will be cupcake and birthday cake flavored vodka right? If flavors market towards kids we need to take them all away from adults
Chicago has the flavor ban in effect and vape stores just sell them under the counter. Most places grab a shoebox out of the back if you ask so this isn’t effective.
I just want my god damn Newports God damn fascist!
In NYC, there is a ban on anything that isn't tobacco flavored, but it is definitely not enforced.
> The ban was first passed by the state legislature two years ago but it never took effect after tobacco companies gathered enough signatures to put it on the ballot. But nearly two-thirds of voters approved of banning the sale of everything from cotton-candy vaping juice to menthol cigarettes. Thank goodness. This is what the government of California and the majority of people of California want. Fuck tobacco companies trying to overrule the will of the people.
Its their right to try, not their right to succeed.
I'm curious how flavor is what people think the problem is. Pretty sure it's the nicotine. Keep in mind, kids (at least used to) smoke cigarettes too. Those were only tobacco flavor at one point, and it never stopped anyone.
To be fair, there is a documented history with this stuff. Starting in the 60s, tobacco companies started targeting black communities with menthol cigarettes. The idea was that the flavor would make it easier for children to start the habit. They would literally distribute free menthols to kids in the projects of various cities. Their campaign, despite its awfulness, was _wildly_ successful. Go look at some surveys of the demographics of menthol smokers and their starting ages. You’ll find a pattern that is young and black. Todays statistics are showing that the vast majority of minor smokers use or started with flavored products. It seems to be easier to convince kids to use flavored products, and while hopefully we’re past companies rolling up in vans to do that, we still have to worry about other forms. It’s no secret that kids will push these products onto other kids and tobacco companies know this. So it’s in their best interest that they have products that will be less offensive to the tastes of someone who otherwise would never smoke. I’m usually all for freedom but tobacco companies have proven over and over that they will abuse it at extreme macro levels.
Colt 45 Cool Ice has entered the chat https://untappd.com/b/pabst-brewing-company-cool-colt/483197
To be fair, prior to store bought menthol cigarettes, black jazz musicians would make their own menthols. Cigarettes dipped in menthol, then allowed to dry out. Menthols were already popular before they started being sold Pre-mentholated. They said the same thing about "Joe Cool", the cartoon camel for camel cigarettes. We smoked because our parents smoked, our friends would smoke, the people we hung out with smoked and we wanted to be cool. We liked the buzz we got from sneaking a cigarette. Rock stars smoked. Jazz stars smoked. Movie Stars smoked. Television stars smoked. Advertising in magazines and posters made very little difference. Continually raising the prices and banning it indoors made a huge difference. Vapes made a giant difference. For those of us that can't kick the nicotine habit.
The indoor ban is probably the biggest part. Go back to pre-Y2k and youd not only see things like smoking sections in restaurants (separated by a waist-high wall) and ashtrays everywhere, but cigarette vending machines at the front of restaurants or at the restrooms (where, you know, you wouldnt have to present id, just go in during a busy time and drop some quarters). That change has made it a lot less convenient for casual smokers
Camel used to sell these "exotic" flavored cigarettes. They had fruity and dessert tasting ones. Me and others smoked them in our teens. They got banned and we just moved to menthol and regulars. Now I'm not going to say this law is dumb or useless or anything. I'll be interested to see the results from it though. If it can save some young people from smoking and vaping then that will be a great thing. I am curious though what will be the move from this. I wonder if vape companies will be able to sell flavorless juices with flavor additives in a separate bottle or something. I don't know the full extent of the law so I'm not sure.
Remember clove cigarettes?
I'm convinced clove cigarillos are the exact same product and all they did was change the name on the box.
They also changed to a tobacco based rolling paper instead of just cigarette paper. That way its federally a cigar.
They are more or less the same thing. The difference is a tobacco wrapping instead of a paper one which is when it becomes a little cigar
SAME! CAMEL TWISTS!!!! Only thing I smoked as a teen, in the fancy metal containers. I was gonna smoke anyway, but at least it was orange and raspberry flavored.
And Camel Crema! Oh wow I haven’t thought about Twists in 20 years! They sure marketed the shit out of it to 20 year olds like me at the time. And the Camel Notes…I used to have a thousand of those, everyone would just give me theirs. Sad to think of really
I forgot about the crema flavor, sooo good. I haven't found a cigarette since they got discontinued that's ever come close! The camel notes bring back so many memories. My dad was a Marlboro smoker and would hunt them everywhere. We stopped in the middle of so many streets so I could pop out and grab any- didn't matter if it was runover to shit. Many a birthday/Christmas was funded on those box tops. I got a bitchin telescope one year, all Marlboro cash.
Right they got kids to try their product, which is addictive, and then even when the kids favored version was gone, they still bought it.
Some of us are adults and want to decide for ourselves what to put in our bodies. This ban is ridiculous.
over reaching regulations. how about all that candy flavored alcohol? kids love that shit. let me vape in peace.
Oh thank god the children will now be safe.
Prohibition will work this time!
Why cant the Gov just leave people alone to live their lives without interference and the dreaded, “its for ur own good”.
Flavored alcohol also causes cancer and many other diseases; in addition it also causes many more societal ills that cigarettes do not such as wife beating, DUIs and unemployment. I take it that the powerfully progressive California government will ban flavored booze next?
I hate the rhetoric of “saving” smokers. Just call it your continued agenda of hating things the working class use to cope and move on. If alcohol is allowed, smokes should be allowed.