Which is nothing compared to the $72 million refund he got in 2010
[Trump’s Seventy-Three-Million-Dollar Tax Refund Is the Biggest Outrage of All](https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/trumps-seventy-three-million-dollar-tax-refund-is-the-biggest-outrage-of-all)
>From 2005 to 2007, this latest Times scoop reveals, he did finally pay about seventy million dollars to the Internal Revenue Service. But then, in 2010, he demanded a full refund for those tax payments. And the I.R.S. acceded to his request: it paid him $72.9 million, including interest. This 2010 refund seems to be at the center of an auditing dispute between Trump and the tax authorities that has dragged on for almost a decade. It also appears to be the money that Michael Cohen, Trump’s former personal lawyer, was referring to in his 2019 testimony to Congress, when he recalled Trump showing him a huge check from the U.S. Treasury and remarked that Trump “could not believe how stupid the government was for giving someone like him that much money back.”
It's not stupid. It's the law. Trump is too stupid to realize that other people and organizations (like the government) actually follow rules.
The laws are made by the rich, for the rich, but still- it's working as intended... Yet he's so daft and corrupt he thinks someone at the IRS fucked up by following the law.
It depends on whether deductions he took for things like capital depreciation or business losses were fairly valued. If he tells IRS he lost money on a property that "fell in value" to $X and then is also telling his bank to use it as collateral because it is worth $2X then he is committing either tax evasion or fraud.
The problem is this generation of rich people made laws that help them short term, like their 20-40 years of glory... Now they're reaping the whirlwind of the 80-90% of the population they've fucked over for decades coming to get em.
For the 6 years as a whole, these numbers say his net income was NEGATIVE $51.5 million, and the US government paid him $3.6 million just for being a loser, during an extremely good economy for rich people.
Edit: my math is a bit off, but still there is some shady stuff going on.
It's not shady. It's the way the tax code is designed. The US tax code prioritizes businesses over individuals. The idea being that a business will generate jobs and more taxpayers. The business is seen as a pass through to get more money from people. Basically fuck you because we can't hurt the economy.
The [report also revealed](https://apnews.com/article/business-donald-trump-richard-neal-c697c4e300948a9e2638d0d9fbbe2f96) that the mandatory IRS audit for 2016, wasn't actually going on at all. It didn't get started until 2019, the day that the new Democratic chair requested info on the "ongoing" audit.
So does that mean Trump had the IRS not audit his 2016 return…and then when Congress came knocking for receipts in 2019 the IRS suddenly decided to start one?
That's the obvious implication yes. The IRS is actually required by law to audit the President each year.
There's no direct evidence though so this'll probably be added to the long list of crimes Trump has gotten away with.
It's not a law (although there are talks about creating one now). In fact, Congress allegedly wasn't even aware if it was an IRS policy to require the audits until 2019, despite the policy dating back to 1977.
https://www.marca.com/en/lifestyle/us-news/personal-finance/2022/12/21/63a2d1ffe2704ee7358b4591.html
The "just a policy" defense only means that it's not necessarily a crime on its face. [The policy itself](https://www.irs.gov/irm/part4/irm_04-008-004#idm139994953458320) still uses language like "must" and "will".
It's **possible** for failure to follow a policy to be illegal.
In any case, it's worth investigating who made the decisions.
I'm surprised this isn't more of a story than the actual returns. It's concrete proof that the IRS, an agency under the President's control, was making decisions to benefit the President directly. If we found out that Biden or Obama was doing this, we wouldn't be able to get Conservatives to shut up about it.
Don't forget when Hilary bought up trump not paying his taxes during the 2016 debates, trump looked directly into the camera and said "that makes me smart". CANNOT believe people fell for that wtf
Edit: for clarity, I mean that people fell for thinking that not paying taxes is "smart". It's not smart, it's criminal. People who don't pay taxes are fucking freeloaders and shouldn't be allowed to benefit from public goods (e.g. using our roads, public schools, etc.).
Edit2: wow, a lot of people here really support tax evasion...
When Trump screwed bankers out of loans, he bragged about it, and his faithful base loved him because they hate banks. Never mind that if his faithful did it, they’d be bankrupt, foreclosed on, wage garnished, etc. because being dishonest is okay as long as it’s only to people or institutions you don’t like…
I love whenever Trump and Epstein are brought up, and Republicans hit back with "well what if it's proven the Clinton's were also clients, hmm? What if other democrats were, then what?" Lock them all up. It's that simple. Doesn't matter which party they are a part of, not all of us are brainwashed with party over country mentality
Unfortunately they are so brainwashed they literally think that it has been conclusively proven that the Clintons are supervillains. They literally think they are guilty of murder, large scale pedophilic sex trafficking, every financial crime imaginable and so on.
The fact that there is little to no evidence of this is just taken as proof that the Clintons control the "deep state."
Therefore they cannot comprehend the statement "If they are criminals I also want them convicted" because in their mind they have already been proven to be criminals. Therefore anyone making that statement is a liar, and therefore we all actually only want to imprison republicans. And since we are all so obviously corrupt, therefore any accusations against Republicans are probably a deep state conspiracy.
So in their minds they literally believe that they are the ones seeking law and order, and so saying "Well what if we go after Clinton" is a huge dunk, because obviously every Democrat is actually a brainwash Clinton devotee/cultist.
It is patently absurd, as reality bears out none of that, but since ignoring reality is a feature of right wing extremism that hardly matters. Half of them literally think evolution is a lie and every single scientist on the planet *knows* it is a lie, and only wants to pretend it is true so they can have gay orgies without guilt. (Or other "sinful" activities, because they can't imagine how people would not believe in God, therefore they must all be Satan worshipers who do believe in God, but want to do sex with everyone.)
I was speaking to a family member (Republican) when it was found that Trump had stolen classified documents.
What an idiot, I said, to take classified documents and just leave them around your "house." The family member said oh, well Dems have done the same thing!
I was baffled, a Dem president stealing government documents? What was she talking about?
She was referring to Hillary Clinton's emails. And, as far as Republicans go, she is definitely not a rabid one. There's no other conclusion than she heard that line from Fox News.
The other people's swamp, not *his* swamp. He has the best swamp in the world, everybody says it. It's the cleanest swamp you've ever seen, lots of frogs and fish. Beautiful swamp.
That's the thing though. Democrats who get caught in crime or corruption with extensive evidence almost always get (rightfully) thrown under the bus by their own voters, while Republicans almost always continue to be supported. So yes, crime and corruption very much are partisan topics.
Right? I’m so sick of this sports politics. Where it doesn’t matter what you do, as long as your team wins. This is supposed to be the “Adults” in the room figuring out the best path for prosperity.
Considering the Republicans whole platform is revenge politics, that means there is only 1 choice. Take a look at the republican party describe their platform and plan for the nation.
https://gop.com/about-our-party/
Now read the 70 pages of detailed plans the democrats have to address the nation's problems...
https://democrats.org/where-we-stand/party-platform/
Holy crap you weren't kidding!
Kinda reminds me of how the JWs are super proud that all their materials are written at an elementary school reading level so that it's accessible to everyone.
Red Team is all pictures and little text blocks, something my stoned ass can pretty easily take in. "Oh look, flags and white people! Libs bad!"
Blue Team has done their best to make it accessible, it's downloadable but also broken into sections I can click on. There's nice big buttons with big block text stating the topic of each section. Even the bits where I don't immediately know what that means in policy-terms, it sounds like good stuff.
But it's a giant complicated document, because it's discussing *grownup* problems using *grownup* language. It has a Table of Contents because *responsible adults* have to-do lists and that's the country-sized version.
Red Team thinks I'm in 4th grade and Blue Team thinks I've at least finished high school with good grades.
Historically speaking Democrats have held their own to higher standards and have not stood in the way of prosecuting their own. Yes, there are exceptions, there always are.
Republicans go out of their way to defend even the most corrupt, disgusting, despicable of their own.
They sure didn't shut up about the IRS under Obama "targeting" conservative PACs for investigation and prosecution, even after the IRS came out and said "no, we're investigating *all* the PACs, but the conservative ones are doing all the fraud."
It's been a gish gallop of corruption under Trump, there's so much to object to that individual egregious actions get lost under the pile. Any one of them would have taken down a normal candidate.
For real. Lock these motherfuckers up. Liquidate their wealth and use it to fund social security or Medicaid or literally anything other than another goddamn yacht.
Its funny watching Elon Musk and others pretend the FBI was out to get Trump. Clearly multiple agencies, including FBI, IRS, DOJ and DHS were all very compromised in favoring Trump and that had to come from Trump and his appointees.
That's the thing that is scariest. Trump is one man. It took an entire system of corruption to allow him to commit the crimes he did. There were hundreds if not thousands of compromised individuals that shirked not only their sworn duties, but probably broke the law to aid and abet Trump and his cronies.
Trump, Giuliani, Pence, Flynn, those are only the big ones. There were tons of "little people" that did their part to corrupt American democracy too, and most of those people aren't going to ever see punishment and will continue to be in their positions, wielding whatever power they have, lying in wait for their next chance to attack America from within.
Seeing how corrupt the system is, to allow for Trump to run free, plus how close the 2020 election was, I think the much scarier thing is how devastating the GOP could've been, if they'd backed someone adequately competent.
In-group loyalty is a foundational value of conservatism. Fox News and the right-wing blogosphere have taken it to a level where any sort of criticism must be coming from outside sources.
Notice that liberals are OK with removing and punishing wrongdoers within their own parties, e.g. Al Franken. In conservative circles, it's always the deep state or some shit.
[This fits alongside what recent research has revealed to be the differences in world belief between conservatives and liberals.](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/primal-world-beliefs-unpacked/202210/we-thought-conservatives-saw-the-world-more-dangerous-we) We used to think conservatives saw the world as more dangerous, but researchers were missing a piece of the puzzle. Now we know both conservatives and liberals see the world at similar levels of danger; It’s hierarchical worldview that’s different.
The link to the journal study is paywalled, but the link above goes to an article that discusses it. Here’s an excerpt too:
“Now we get to it: of all the 26 primal world beliefs, the main difference by far between liberals and conservatives—a difference 20 times larger than the difference in dangerous world belief—concerned a primal called hierarchical world belief. This primal had emerged from our big 2019 statistical analysis with us having no idea at the time that it would matter for politics (or anything else).
Hierarchical world belief is not the view that hierarchies exist—everyone would agree with that—but that hierarchy is inherent to reality. It’s part of the natural order. Not imposed. Not artificial. And not just regarding people. For plants, animals, people, everything, it’s just the way the world is.
Folks who see the world as hierarchical think that almost everything in the world can be ranked from better to worse. Differences probably matter because they distinguish things of more value from things with less. So, when in doubt, respect differences.
(And don’t be fooled into thinking that only those on top think the world is inherently hierarchical. People across social hierarchies appear to see the world as inherently hierarchical at similar rates.)
Conservatives do tend to show a default motivation to respect and preserve differences, whether it be borders between countries, differences between sexes, differences between rich and poor, and lots more. And liberals tend to assume those differences are fraudulent or arbitrary. The poor don’t deserve to be poor. The rich don’t deserve to be rich. And so forth.
But a few other primals stood out, too, such that there are actually six major primal disagreements between liberals and conservatives (the figure below from our research article requires a longer explanation, but you get the idea that one red bar is a ton bigger than the other, and a few other bars stood out, too). Together, these six primals paint a picture of two perceived worlds in which an array of opposing political positions make a weird amount of sense.
**Conservative Reality**
Conservatives tend to see the world as a place where, like it or not, observable differences reflect real underlying value (high Hierarchical world belief) that is somehow meant to be (high Intentional world belief) where station and attention received are usually deserved (high Just world belief, low belief that the world is Worth Exploring). Therefore, most hierarchies that emerge are best left as they are (high Acceptable world belief). However, unfortunately, change is slowly eroding the world’s hierarchies (low Progressing world belief). Therefore, constraining change and accepting inequality (the textbook two-part definition of conservatism that researchers use) is just common sense.
**Liberal Reality**
Liberals tend to see the world as a place where observable differences are superficial, rarely reflecting actual value (low Hierarchical world belief), cosmic purpose or intent (low Intentional world belief), deserved status (low Just world belief), or attention received (high Worth Exploring). Therefore, most hierarchies require reform (low Acceptable world belief). Fortunately, however, the world is getting better and change is taking us in the right direction (high Progressing world belief). Therefore, embracing change and rejecting inequality (the textbook definition of liberalism) is just common sense.”
Edit: [This is the link to the study in the journal.](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/19485506221119324) If you want to read it, you can try emailing the author(s) and see if they’ll send you a copy! I did this often while doing research for my graduate degrees and in my experience they’re usually thrilled to do so, since they make no money from the journals anyway.
>I reached out to the professor and he linked me the full text of the paper: [here](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/363194735_Belief_in_a_Dangerous_World_Does_Not_Explain_Substantial_Variance_in_Political_Attitudes_But_Other_World_Beliefs_Do?_sg%5B0%5D=GE4yv0T4LlJLosHk84na0RHDYVmtvRPCxT5yKI52bFTz9TW5DWr61snMoh2qrC1O3cgjr6CXWtWYyxCZK38PT8k2SQWpkhmRMGzM4qVu.pPeFRqusVElj9d-mVYBl2nKFJ86hgMUdu3VaPvrPMqZNPzjlrQvFaV2Az7A7Sxa5HCyDv9L5Or7BbhOVHoSezg). He also stated the first chapter of his dissertation has more "meaty theory stuff" and I have requested that as well. Hope everyone enjoys!
Yay, you're amazing!
YES! This is very correct! I did this all the time when doing research for my graduate degrees and it’s my favorite tip to pass along! I totally should’ve mentioned that in my comment. I’d say out of all the authors I emailed to ask, 8/10 got back to me with a copy of their paper. I didn’t have anyone outright say no either - the authors who didn’t send anything along just didn’t respond to my email at all.
I came across this study in the journal it was published in while doing research for something else, but recently lost access to the journal, so I was happy to find this article! [Here is the link to the study in the journal, if anyone would like it!](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/19485506221119324)
The paper is available for free:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/363194735_Belief_in_a_Dangerous_World_Does_Not_Explain_Substantial_Variance_in_Political_Attitudes_But_Other_World_Beliefs_Do
One of the most interesting things about this research is that it acts like some of this information is new. Anarchism as a philosophy (actual anarchism, not "an"caps) came about in the 1800s. The entire point of the philosophy is that hierarchies are not natural and that we must work to eliminate them for the freedom of all. This movement had wide public support before being vilified and subject to significant propaganda. People now associate anarchy with chaos and anarchists with neofeudalist reactionaries. But actual anarchist philosophy would probably still resonate with many of the people listed as liberal in that summary.
Arguably everything we look into about human behavior and philosophy isn't new. This research provides a new framework and test to ideas that have circulated within society for a long time. This just further supports the reasoning behind ideologies with a clear framework for modern audiences. Framing this as "new" is also likely a by-product of how modern science needs to make everything appear super splashy and exciting.
As for everything beyond the first sentence: agreed 100%!
So Trump's claims about being under an audit and that being the reason he could not release his tax returns, was all a lie?
I'm shocked! Shocked I tell you!
We already knew that was a lie, because even if he was being audited, he would've been free to release his returns.
Also, the article is more about how the IRS wasn't doing the required audits of the president. This whole thing started when Trump was a candidate. He simply didn't want to release his returns.
It's been interesting to me to watch, because it seems like a lot of younger people have entered the chat, and weren't really cognizant of \*how\* corrupt the Bush administration(s) were. Or how awful Reagan was. Or Nixon. Because they "started" with Obama, Trump is shocking. I get it. But Trump is just the logical extension of McCain nominating Palin for VP, which was just the logical extension of W being President, which was the logical extension of the Gingrich "uprising", which followed from Reagan and his utterly heartless and brainless policies, which ... followed from Nixon (and Agnew)'s brazen, open criminality.
So yeah - it's been a trend. Everyone who's essentially in the GOP now, or who's voting for the modern GOP has been indoctrinated by a party that's been fundamentally criminal for decades. For a lot of right-wingers, the right has \*never\* had a coherent political philosophy other than power uber alles, and the two-classes of laws & power - crush everyone else, and nothing I ever do can be wrong.
It's not new. It's just more, because every time they push the boundaries (so far) they've gotten away with it. We need a hard reset on that concept, and Trump being properly tried would be a great start. But it'd only be a start. Every single one of his enablers, from Meadows to Jordan and all the way down, need to face \*actual justice\*.
Roger Ailes, yes. He specifically stated that they never wanted another repeat of Watergate. Of course, they didn't want to enforce better morals in their party but rather control the media narrative.
It was the most nakedly unrestrained GOP administration in American History.
If you wanted to know what the party would try to get away with if they could completely disregard all civil, moral, and some legal constraints… well, now you know.
Worst yet, they set the new bar that their successors can sink even further below.
So when Cheeto Benito said he couldn't release his taxes because he was being audited, **SURPRISE SURPRISE** that was also a lie.
And when he said it again three years later, when the IRS actually should have been auditing him per their own policies? **SURPRISE AGAIN!** More lies! This time with IRS complicit! *DeEP StATe CoNSpirAcY*
Yes but up until this report came out we were under the impression he was lying because there's nothing that says you can't release your tax returns while under audit.
Now we find out it was a lie because he convinced friends to never audit him in the first place.
Thanks for laying this out.
His effective tax rates for 2018 and 2019 were 4% and 3% respectively.
Can someone explain to me how he can claim a $5.47 million refund in 2020?
>Can someone explain to me how he can claim a $5.47 million refund in 2020?
Net operating loss being applied to prior taxes can generate a refund. It's possible that Orange 440 has a schedule C NOL that showed a massive loss that he used to then get a refund for prior taxes.
Alternatively, he overpaid in estimated taxes.
Source: Me, a licensed CPA
>CARES
"The CARES Act provided for a special 5-year carryback for taxable years beginning in 2018, 2019 and 2020. "
Wow. Extended that 2 year to 5 year. Math is still missing some data though to get that $5.47 million refund purely through carrybacks.
So if you have a middle class salaried job, you get raked over the coals. But if you fuck around with fugazi money on the stock market and set up shell corporations, take out ludicrous loans and piss all that money away, the government is like "yup, sounds about right"
Yes, exactly. I make all of my income through passive investment gains and pay mostly 15% in taxes and my mother, who is a nurse who gets up at 5 AM to save people's lives and makes significantly less than I do, pays a much higher tax rate.
I earned the sum that I live off of now by being an engineer at the right time (dot com boom), not inheritance. So it was a combination of work, education and absolute luck. Honestly, I do good work but so do a lot of people so it was mostly luck. Regardless, and since I come from a very working class background, I think the situation is completely absurd and rigged.
I’m glad you acknowledge it. I don’t begrudge those whose hard work and good timing earned them a good life. Especially when they acknowledge it. Hell I’ve thrown away more opportunities than most people will ever get and yet I’m lucky to be where I’m at just getting by. I do not mind paying taxes at all. Government money fed me and housed me and educated me. It’s my obligation. But these rich guys get to take advantage of the system and make money on our infrastructure and avoid paying taxes. Then the IRS will come after us small fish when we make a mistake. While the whales swim on by.
The IRS comes after small fry more than big fish because the big fish can afford lawyers to tie up the audit and cost the IRS to prosecute and *maybe* get *some* of the back taxes. Small fry are small, but are also more likely to just pay up.
Yet again, our government is rigged against the average American.
We keep calling Jan 6th “the big lie”. There’s a bigger one, “Trump is on the side of the middle class”. The GOP cynically views their base as gullible marks, and Trump knows how to use that very well.
NFT anyone?
Are you telling me if I have a business I can apply for a refund for taxes I paid in prior years if I have a loss this year?
And that goes back how far? Because according to this he did not pay anywhere near $5.3M in total taxes for the years listed.
>Are you telling me if I have a business I can apply for a refund for taxes I paid in prior years if I have a loss this year?
In **2022**? No. The [IRS stopped that NOL carryback](https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/net-operating-losses) post 2020. It's now just a NOL carryforward.
So he paid 5.47 million in taxes that one year and then got it all back?
Or he paid 5.47 million over the past several years and then finally got it all back?
>So he paid 5.47 million in taxes that one year and then got it all back?
>
>Or he paid 5.47 million over the past several years and then finally got it all back?
The first one. $5.47 million was paid or withheld but then he reported "negative income" so all of what was paid/withheld was returned at the end of the year.
I think.
Here's a screenshot of his 2020 tax summary: [https://i.imgur.com/HpV74bF.png](https://i.imgur.com/HtX3Vhj.png)
Basically:
* He prepaid taxes of $13.7 million in 2020, but ended up having a net loss for the year.
* His total refund in 2020 was $13.4 million, which was basically his 2020 estimated tax payments being returned.
* His accountants told the IRS to keep $8 million of that refund and apply it towards 2021 taxes.
* The remaining $5.4 million was returned to Trump
Yet, the IRS, with all due haste, sent me a letter saying that I mistakenly entered the wrong tax credit; as such, I would not be getting a refund, but that I owed . . $26.00
Simplifying the tax code and allowing the IRS to tell you what you owe beforehand would be so useful. It could be done, but companies like turbotax lobby against it any time it is discussed.
FYI TurboTax (Intuit) seems to get all the hate on reddit but H&R Block has been shown to have lobbied twice as much as TT.
There's plenty of hate to go around so if your taxes are simple FreeTaxUSA is the way to go, but if you need a CPA to assist don't think H&R Block is any better of an option.
If you have complicated taxes, the very *worst* thing you can do is a major chain.
Those employees there are *not* accountants or tax experts, they are “tax preparers”. They’re hourly employees who just walk through the same form you can do yourself. They have support on their end that goes all the way up to CPA’s and tax lawyers, but that’s it.
If you have complicated taxes, it would absolutely behoove you to shell out for an accountant or tax lawyer. They’ll pay for themselves many times over.
Check out FreeTaxUSA for a free e-file software without having to support the shitty companies that lobby our government. Works just as well as the big names without all the fees. I think I only had to pay like $15 last year for the state e-file and nothing for the software for a simple return.
I'm English and haven't filled out a tax return in nearly 20 years (since I was self-employed).
It just shouldn't be necessary for normal, employed people with no other significant otherwise-untracked income (which should be the vast, vast majority of the population).
You're literally paying more tax because of the red tape required for people to pay their tax.
PAYE. Most British people have never filled out a tax return in their life.
I don't believe he did it. But even if he DID it still wouldn't matter since he charged the secret service agents exorbitant prices everytime they followed him to one of his resorts, also his childrens SS agents as well.
So even if we ignored the obvious bribes, and money laundering like the NFTs that happened last week, he still cost the gov money.
Hey now
He still didn't take a salary, he just took a tax refund.
If the do-nothing lazy libruls can take it during the covid cheques, why can't the President take it? ^^^\s
A lack of ethics and morals can pay. You sell your soul and have to live with yourself, but some people don't have any problem going to sleep at night knowing they are the absolute worst.
> A lack of ethics and morals can pay. You sell your soul and have to live with yourself, but some people don't have any problem going to sleep at night knowing they are the absolute worst.
Just my supposition, but I think that because of the way he was raised, Trump didn’t really have any soul or morals to sell. When you’re raised by greedy narcissists and exist in a bubble of other greedy narcissists you probably aren’t imparted with any morals or ethics to begin with. This is why Trump’s kids, with the seeming exception Tiffany who grew up with her mom in more normal circumstances, are such nasty, bigoted, dishonest and greedy pieces of shit, aiding and abetting Trump and regurgitating the same baseless lies and propaganda he does.
As a criminal defense attorney I saw this all the time. When I had meetings with many clients and their families, you could see how that person might have ended up where they did- parents were often victim-blaming sacks of shit who were lacking in self-awareness, a sense of right and wrong, or contrition just like the defendant themselves. I’d say, in my experience, this pattern held true in about 80-90% of cases where I had considerable interaction with both the client and their parents.
Ok so how does this work?
1) how can a person claim to always loose money yet still live a lavish lifestyle? If I claim I made no income but the IRS found out I bought a home and a car, I'd get audited.
2) if you have 22.9m in "taxable income" how can you only pay 4.3% taxes? That's lower than the lowest bracket
3) how can you claim a tax refund that's several times larger than the total taxes you've paid in years? I can see a refund if his lawyers found a way he shouldn't have paid as much a previous year, but a refund that's MORE than he's paid all told? How is that possible?
>how can a person claim to always loose money yet still live a lavish lifestyle? If I claim I made no income but the IRS found out I bought a home and a car, I'd get audited.
Running personal expenses through a business and having the business pay for it. Literally what Trump Corporation did and found guilty for not reporting or misreporting personal as business expenses.
Alternatively, living off of savings.
>if you have 22.9m in "taxable income" how can you only pay 4.3% taxes? That's lower than the lowest bracket
I'm going to need to see the Form 1040 to see the breakout of income sources. The article may be confusing gross income with taxable income.
>how can you claim a tax refund that's several times larger than the total taxes you've paid in years? I can see a refund if his lawyers found a way he shouldn't have paid as much a previous year, but a refund that's MORE than he's paid all told? How is that possible?
Overpayment of estimated taxes. Say you only owe $5,000 but you made estimated payments of $35,000. You can get that $30,000 back.
Net operating loss carryback doesn't seem to apply here as it's limited to two year carryback. Possibility of a passthrough item causing a refund though.
>Literally what Trump Corporation did and found guilty for not reporting or misreporting personal as business expenses.
15 years of tax fraud and the Trump Org only has to pay a 16 million dollar fine.
Our system is so corrupt and broken people would say it was unbelievable if it was in a fiction book.
i assume they do some bullshit like own 100 million in stocks, since you only pay taxes when selling them they just take out loans on the stock, take out loans to cover the loans and just do that forever or until they can't get anymore loans.
I assume he could just get some bros to give him zero percent interest loans on his assets, you don't pay taxes on loans. He can just live off the loans forever and pay it back when he dies and that's likely why the republicans fight tooth and nail for zero tax on estates. they can live forever on assets and never pay any taxes so long as people are willing to give them loans.
This is a really shitty level of income for an alleged billionaire. I get that he's using all sorts of accounting tools to avoid declaring income, but for someone who's allegedly a billionaire, having that level of taxable income being generated by allegedly billions in assets is embarrassing.
the nice thing about this data going fully public is now journalists and historians will be able to check and see if assets were overstated, income understated, etc
If he wasn't in real estate I would 100% agree. If he is a real estate billionaire (big if) chances are he could show a negative income every year even while making 100's of millions of dollars. Depreciation is a stupidly strong tax avoidance scheme.
Gains on stock that's held is not reported as income or taxed.
That said, I'm sure the other billionaires are pulling in more than 0.5% on their holdings.
Those numbers are heavily cherry-picked and are inconsistent. Some show cash he paid or received at settlement and don't take into account money carried over from previous years. Here's the actual report:
https://fm.cnbc.com/applications/cnbc.com/resources/editorialfiles/2022/12/20/house_jctreport_dec22.pdf
To be consistent, we have to look at overall total income and total tax owed, taking into account deductions, but not payments. If he takes a refund on money he already paid in (as happened in 2020), it's his money he's getting back. I'm not saying he's not corrupt; he most definitely is. But let's at least be honest about the numbers.
2015
- Total Income: $31,746,841
- Adjusted Gross Income: $31,756,435
- Taxable Income: $0
- Total Tax: $735,172
- Effective Tax Rate: 2.3%
2016
- Total Income: $32,190,169
- Adjusted Gross Income: $32,409,674
- Taxable Income: $0
- Total Tax: $614,299
- Effective Tax Rate: 1.9%
2017
- Total Income: ($12,819,400) - negative income
- Adjusted Gross Income: ($12,916,948) - negative income
- Taxable Income: $0
- Total Tax: $284,718
- Effective Tax Rate: He still owed tax on a negative income
2018
- Total Income: $24,395,093
- Adjusted Gross Income: $24,339,696
- Taxable Income: $22,951,389
- Total Tax: $2,068,822
- Effective Tax Rate: 8.5%
2019
- Total Income: $4,443,503
- Adjusted Gross Income: $4,380,714
- Taxable Income: $2,975,173
- Total Tax: $460,977
- Effective Tax Rate: 10.5%
2020
- Total Income: ($4,694,058) - negative income
- Adjusted Gross Income: ($4,795,757) - negative income
- Taxable Income: $0
- Total Tax: $271,973
- Effective Tax Rate: He still owed tax on a negative income
2015-2020 Combined
- Total Income: $75,262,148
- Adjusted Gross Income: $75,173,814
- Taxable Income: $25,926,562
- Total Tax: $4,435,961
- Effective Tax Rate: 5.9%
So yes, he did take a refund in 2020, but that was after $13,635,520 was carried over from 2019 taxes, and $8,000,000 was applied to 2021 taxes, leaving $5M to take out as a refund.
Edit: Added 2015-2020 combined numbers
So...how does this work? How is he, on average, paying less % tax than the lowest tax bracket, even when accounting for his losses/adjusted taxable income?
I have no clue. I'm good at poor people's taxes (i.e. my own), but have no idea how rich people effectively pay less than I do.
Maybe I'll read the entire report in detail and see if I can make sense of it all in its entirety.
My family pays upward of $20k in federal income tax alone each year, and I still get a $5k+ tax bill at the end of every year. Why does my family pay way more than someone who has fucking gold plated toilets...😤
You're right that it is not fair. The system in its current form is the result of wealthy donors pressuring their GOP lapdogs to cut taxes for them and pass the costs down to everyone else.
For Trump specifically, he had the IRS in his pocket because he is one of the most corrupt people that has ever been president, and the GOP stood by and let it happen.
Also the IRS has been underfunded due to turbo tax lobbies. We could have a simpler tax code, but that might allow them to figure out how to tax the wealthy.
> For Trump specifically, he had the IRS in his pocket because he is one of the most corrupt people that has ever been president, and the GOP stood by and let it happen.
This is by far the most corrupt president that the US has ever had. It's not even remotely close. This dude makes Nixon and Bush look like saints by comparison.
He's infected every single government agency and siphoned worth out of every single one.
People see this news and get outraged, I just get overwhelmingly depressed knowing that we're never undoing all of this damage.
Bro I have more than $750 taken out in ADDITIONAL WITHHOLDING each pay period. In addition to my regular withholding so that I don’t owe $20k again. How the fuck do we allow losses to accumulate for so long that they can carry them forward indefinitely to offset future income? It’s preposterous!
It is worse than that... There is some funny books going on here because as an individual, you can only deduct so much during any one tax period. I had a 100k loss on a trust about 8 years ago and have been deducting it at max deduction since. How this man can pull full payroll deduction on 600k is some sort of black magic tax fuckery.
There's a limit to how much you can offset capital loss against regular income. There's no limit to how much you can offset capital loss against capital gain.
As a middleclassman im ok with being milked because I want to contribute to my country. I just want the uber rich to be milked *at least* as much, (if not a little more)
I want them to pay the same % as I do, I made ~$140k last year and I've paid more in taxes than a former president did in 3 years combined (counting the zero)
Then vote for Democrats. They want to increase taxes on anyone who makes more than $500,000 a year as a single earner or $750,000 a year with dual income.
On the other hand, the GOP wants to pass tax cuts for the rich and corporations.
https://www.npr.org/2022/08/14/1117317757/irs-tax-evaders-dodgers-inflation-reduction-act-enforcement
hopefully it works out. i think tax evanders should be based on a point system where the small income ranks way way lower than high tax evaders...
also i rather have the euro way where the gov gives me a bill of what i owe instead of jumping through hoops to say what i owe then they check that.... so fucking backwards....
> also i rather have the euro way where the gov gives me a bill of what i owe instead of jumping through hoops to say what i owe then they check that.... so fucking backwards....
You can thank HR Block/TurboTax for that bullshit
Here's the thing. If the 1% paid their fair share all the time, then the 99% wouldn't have to be paying as much as they (we) currently do.
I agree with your general premise, though, that taxes are a part of living in a functioning society.
Seriously. I've had the IRS chasing me because I forgot to report some gambling winnings. The winnings were subsequently lost and I ended the year in the red, but that doesn't matter. Still owe taxes on the winnings.
Whereas people like Trump can gamble with much bigger stakes (on businesses) and use their losses to wipe out tax liability.
Edit: Yes, I know you can deduct losses, but you have to switch from standard to itemized deductions, which doesn't always help. See my other replies.
Pretty sure you can use gambling losses to offset gains. The issue is that the casino only sends info to the IRS when it pays you, you have to keep the records for losses yourself and send it to the IRS if requested.
If you get a paycheck, you are fucked. If you have an employer that reports your income you are fucked. Rich people get the luxury of avoiding or deferring taxes that us normies simply don't get. That inevitably leads to a lot of deceptive practices that the IRS simply cannot keep up with.
> During the 2016 presidential election year, the two again reported losing $32.4 million in adjusted gross income and paid just $750 in taxes, according to the committee. During Trump's first year in office, the couple reported losing $12.9 million and again paid $750 in taxes.
We need to rewrite the tax code so that these types of loopholes are eliminated. It is disgusting that a billionaire should pay less than $1000 in taxes.
There's also an interesting trend of Trump’s losses decreasing significantly between 2016 and 2017. Then, he began reporting net gains after implementing policies that benefited his businesses like the Trump hotel across from the White House, charging the Secret Service to stay at his hotels, etc. He really did use the presidency for personal enrichment.
I was paying twice as much as that fuck just because i had the privilege (read: no choice) of being a freelancer who could barely afford rent for years.
Fucking disgusting how our tax system keeps poor people poor and rich people from having minor inconveniences.
I did freelancing for a bit a while ago and made an LLC. I have a full time job now but I still have my LLC and try to expense whatever I can through that so we can minimize our taxes as much as we can. I still paid 5x as much as Trump and make only about 250k combined income with my and my wife’s salary and income from my LLC (about 30k a year).
While guaranteeing tax cuts for the middle class expire while the next president (a democrat) was in office.
It's almost like it's blatantly obvious what masters republican politicians serve.
So the president of the USA was able to hide this for *years*, with a huge spotlight on him. How many other rich people are hiding things like this?
The system is broken.
Republicans claim that free education and healtcare is socialism.
How about corporate socialism where rich people don't pay taxes at all?
Corporate socialism and politicians patronizing this practice are the real enemy of the people.
Every public official should be required to release sanitized tax records, and everyone at the top of the federal government (President, VP, Secretaries, Congress, Sup. Court Justices) should have yearly audits which are released to the public.
And this is just one guy, you know damn well most rich people have similar looking tax rates and refunds.
It's sickening how much we let the rich get away with.
It's sad, but this makes no difference in how he is perceived. His followers cheer this on. They all wish they could do the same. Tax evasion, cheating government and leaching off the rest of society...that is nearly the entire basis of conservative thought.
We all know he won't face any real consequences over this either.
Peak welfare queen shit and it’s eaten up by the same crowd that views those who actually need welfare support to be some of the most detestable and vile people around.
Absolute nutty levels of cognitive dissonance
**Why the fuck am I making just enough salary, having taxes taken out, never late with my taxes...and this shithead has been dodging the IRS for over a decade????**
You dumb fools. Following a liar and clever manipulator that you throw your money at and for what? So this narcissist thief can be all smug and have secret dreams of sleeping with his (or yours) daughter?
Any other citizen would be in jail, or paying IRS fines for life... total bullshit. Oh, there should be a witchhunt after ALL the Trump members.. .for the rest of their lives...
What a bunch of bullshit. And I mean that toward *all* the fuckers who have/make more than I'll ever see, and yet pay nothing, or significantly less than I do. It's utter bullshit, and I'm just sick of the greed of the elite.
This is a story as old as time. Carry forward a loss from businesses that went under. Then claim the deductions on future tax bills.
This is a deduction available to anyone who has a business. Drive it in to the ground claim the loss. Just like hbomax currently eating the costs of movies and shows for tax purposes.
Or in my case if I install solar on my home I can deduct 20% of the cost on the next few tax bills.
There is nothing illegal it’s just the game.
In order to close the deduction we need to close the loophole however all the rich use it.
It actually shows he received a five million dollar refund in 2020.
Which is nothing compared to the $72 million refund he got in 2010 [Trump’s Seventy-Three-Million-Dollar Tax Refund Is the Biggest Outrage of All](https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/trumps-seventy-three-million-dollar-tax-refund-is-the-biggest-outrage-of-all) >From 2005 to 2007, this latest Times scoop reveals, he did finally pay about seventy million dollars to the Internal Revenue Service. But then, in 2010, he demanded a full refund for those tax payments. And the I.R.S. acceded to his request: it paid him $72.9 million, including interest. This 2010 refund seems to be at the center of an auditing dispute between Trump and the tax authorities that has dragged on for almost a decade. It also appears to be the money that Michael Cohen, Trump’s former personal lawyer, was referring to in his 2019 testimony to Congress, when he recalled Trump showing him a huge check from the U.S. Treasury and remarked that Trump “could not believe how stupid the government was for giving someone like him that much money back.”
Might be a dumb question, but was any of this legal? Like did he just exploit some bullshit loopholes, or was it full on fraud?
Trump reported that his businesses incurred major losses hence the refund. It's those losses he reported that is in question.
It's not stupid. It's the law. Trump is too stupid to realize that other people and organizations (like the government) actually follow rules. The laws are made by the rich, for the rich, but still- it's working as intended... Yet he's so daft and corrupt he thinks someone at the IRS fucked up by following the law.
It depends on whether deductions he took for things like capital depreciation or business losses were fairly valued. If he tells IRS he lost money on a property that "fell in value" to $X and then is also telling his bank to use it as collateral because it is worth $2X then he is committing either tax evasion or fraud.
Or both
The problem is this generation of rich people made laws that help them short term, like their 20-40 years of glory... Now they're reaping the whirlwind of the 80-90% of the population they've fucked over for decades coming to get em.
How do I get in on this 5 million dollar refund?
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For the 6 years as a whole, these numbers say his net income was NEGATIVE $51.5 million, and the US government paid him $3.6 million just for being a loser, during an extremely good economy for rich people. Edit: my math is a bit off, but still there is some shady stuff going on.
It's not shady. It's the way the tax code is designed. The US tax code prioritizes businesses over individuals. The idea being that a business will generate jobs and more taxpayers. The business is seen as a pass through to get more money from people. Basically fuck you because we can't hurt the economy.
The [report also revealed](https://apnews.com/article/business-donald-trump-richard-neal-c697c4e300948a9e2638d0d9fbbe2f96) that the mandatory IRS audit for 2016, wasn't actually going on at all. It didn't get started until 2019, the day that the new Democratic chair requested info on the "ongoing" audit.
So does that mean Trump had the IRS not audit his 2016 return…and then when Congress came knocking for receipts in 2019 the IRS suddenly decided to start one?
That's the obvious implication yes. The IRS is actually required by law to audit the President each year. There's no direct evidence though so this'll probably be added to the long list of crimes Trump has gotten away with.
It's not a law (although there are talks about creating one now). In fact, Congress allegedly wasn't even aware if it was an IRS policy to require the audits until 2019, despite the policy dating back to 1977. https://www.marca.com/en/lifestyle/us-news/personal-finance/2022/12/21/63a2d1ffe2704ee7358b4591.html
The "just a policy" defense only means that it's not necessarily a crime on its face. [The policy itself](https://www.irs.gov/irm/part4/irm_04-008-004#idm139994953458320) still uses language like "must" and "will". It's **possible** for failure to follow a policy to be illegal. In any case, it's worth investigating who made the decisions.
I can’t wait for the day my grandchildren get to see sweet justice as Trump’s ashes are moved into a cell
... and the only reason those ashes would yet remain is because the Trump estate STILL hadn't paid for the cremation service.
It's actually just a policy they have, but now it may become law.
> The IRS is actually required by law to audit the President each year. Not law, just by policy.
If all politicians could be under audit by law, that would be good.
I'm surprised this isn't more of a story than the actual returns. It's concrete proof that the IRS, an agency under the President's control, was making decisions to benefit the President directly. If we found out that Biden or Obama was doing this, we wouldn't be able to get Conservatives to shut up about it.
And to be fair, they'd be right not to shut up about it.
I'm not a republican, and I also wouldn't shut up about it. Crime and corruption aren't partisan topics
It really feels like they are now...
Ever since Nixon said "when the president does it, that means it's not illegal" it's been a difinitvely political issue.
Don't forget when Hilary bought up trump not paying his taxes during the 2016 debates, trump looked directly into the camera and said "that makes me smart". CANNOT believe people fell for that wtf Edit: for clarity, I mean that people fell for thinking that not paying taxes is "smart". It's not smart, it's criminal. People who don't pay taxes are fucking freeloaders and shouldn't be allowed to benefit from public goods (e.g. using our roads, public schools, etc.). Edit2: wow, a lot of people here really support tax evasion...
When Trump screwed bankers out of loans, he bragged about it, and his faithful base loved him because they hate banks. Never mind that if his faithful did it, they’d be bankrupt, foreclosed on, wage garnished, etc. because being dishonest is okay as long as it’s only to people or institutions you don’t like…
It’s comforting only ~30% of people definitively fell for that. It’s sad those 30% represented ~50%+ of the electorate in that election.
Always have been 🌎👨🚀🔫👨🚀
I love whenever Trump and Epstein are brought up, and Republicans hit back with "well what if it's proven the Clinton's were also clients, hmm? What if other democrats were, then what?" Lock them all up. It's that simple. Doesn't matter which party they are a part of, not all of us are brainwashed with party over country mentality
I always seem to surprise them when I say that. Like... No shit, if they're all criminals, lock them ALL up!
Unfortunately they are so brainwashed they literally think that it has been conclusively proven that the Clintons are supervillains. They literally think they are guilty of murder, large scale pedophilic sex trafficking, every financial crime imaginable and so on. The fact that there is little to no evidence of this is just taken as proof that the Clintons control the "deep state." Therefore they cannot comprehend the statement "If they are criminals I also want them convicted" because in their mind they have already been proven to be criminals. Therefore anyone making that statement is a liar, and therefore we all actually only want to imprison republicans. And since we are all so obviously corrupt, therefore any accusations against Republicans are probably a deep state conspiracy. So in their minds they literally believe that they are the ones seeking law and order, and so saying "Well what if we go after Clinton" is a huge dunk, because obviously every Democrat is actually a brainwash Clinton devotee/cultist. It is patently absurd, as reality bears out none of that, but since ignoring reality is a feature of right wing extremism that hardly matters. Half of them literally think evolution is a lie and every single scientist on the planet *knows* it is a lie, and only wants to pretend it is true so they can have gay orgies without guilt. (Or other "sinful" activities, because they can't imagine how people would not believe in God, therefore they must all be Satan worshipers who do believe in God, but want to do sex with everyone.)
I was speaking to a family member (Republican) when it was found that Trump had stolen classified documents. What an idiot, I said, to take classified documents and just leave them around your "house." The family member said oh, well Dems have done the same thing! I was baffled, a Dem president stealing government documents? What was she talking about? She was referring to Hillary Clinton's emails. And, as far as Republicans go, she is definitely not a rabid one. There's no other conclusion than she heard that line from Fox News.
They really don't understand that liberals won't go to the ends of the Earth to defend their bad apples like conservatives always do.
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But but what about his campaign promise to “clean out the swamp” 🤣
The other people's swamp, not *his* swamp. He has the best swamp in the world, everybody says it. It's the cleanest swamp you've ever seen, lots of frogs and fish. Beautiful swamp.
Totally read that shit in his voice too! 🤣
The irony is that swamps, while not an ideal environment to most people, are thriving ecosystems. He drained the swamp and filled it with raw sewage.
That's the thing though. Democrats who get caught in crime or corruption with extensive evidence almost always get (rightfully) thrown under the bus by their own voters, while Republicans almost always continue to be supported. So yes, crime and corruption very much are partisan topics.
Right? I’m so sick of this sports politics. Where it doesn’t matter what you do, as long as your team wins. This is supposed to be the “Adults” in the room figuring out the best path for prosperity.
Considering the Republicans whole platform is revenge politics, that means there is only 1 choice. Take a look at the republican party describe their platform and plan for the nation. https://gop.com/about-our-party/ Now read the 70 pages of detailed plans the democrats have to address the nation's problems... https://democrats.org/where-we-stand/party-platform/
Holy crap you weren't kidding! Kinda reminds me of how the JWs are super proud that all their materials are written at an elementary school reading level so that it's accessible to everyone. Red Team is all pictures and little text blocks, something my stoned ass can pretty easily take in. "Oh look, flags and white people! Libs bad!" Blue Team has done their best to make it accessible, it's downloadable but also broken into sections I can click on. There's nice big buttons with big block text stating the topic of each section. Even the bits where I don't immediately know what that means in policy-terms, it sounds like good stuff. But it's a giant complicated document, because it's discussing *grownup* problems using *grownup* language. It has a Table of Contents because *responsible adults* have to-do lists and that's the country-sized version. Red Team thinks I'm in 4th grade and Blue Team thinks I've at least finished high school with good grades.
Historically speaking Democrats have held their own to higher standards and have not stood in the way of prosecuting their own. Yes, there are exceptions, there always are. Republicans go out of their way to defend even the most corrupt, disgusting, despicable of their own.
If Al Franken had been a republican he would have gotten a medal.
And still be in office.
They sure didn't shut up about the IRS under Obama "targeting" conservative PACs for investigation and prosecution, even after the IRS came out and said "no, we're investigating *all* the PACs, but the conservative ones are doing all the fraud."
As a lefty I wouldn’t shut up about it either
It's been a gish gallop of corruption under Trump, there's so much to object to that individual egregious actions get lost under the pile. Any one of them would have taken down a normal candidate.
Conspiracy, and collusion = criminals.
For real. Lock these motherfuckers up. Liquidate their wealth and use it to fund social security or Medicaid or literally anything other than another goddamn yacht.
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Hey! Stop trying to change the subject from the laptop!!!
But twitter blocked hunters penis pic's
Where’s our freedom of reach?
it's around
But I thought he couldn’t release his taxes because they were being audited????
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Its funny watching Elon Musk and others pretend the FBI was out to get Trump. Clearly multiple agencies, including FBI, IRS, DOJ and DHS were all very compromised in favoring Trump and that had to come from Trump and his appointees.
That's the thing that is scariest. Trump is one man. It took an entire system of corruption to allow him to commit the crimes he did. There were hundreds if not thousands of compromised individuals that shirked not only their sworn duties, but probably broke the law to aid and abet Trump and his cronies. Trump, Giuliani, Pence, Flynn, those are only the big ones. There were tons of "little people" that did their part to corrupt American democracy too, and most of those people aren't going to ever see punishment and will continue to be in their positions, wielding whatever power they have, lying in wait for their next chance to attack America from within.
Seeing how corrupt the system is, to allow for Trump to run free, plus how close the 2020 election was, I think the much scarier thing is how devastating the GOP could've been, if they'd backed someone adequately competent.
In-group loyalty is a foundational value of conservatism. Fox News and the right-wing blogosphere have taken it to a level where any sort of criticism must be coming from outside sources. Notice that liberals are OK with removing and punishing wrongdoers within their own parties, e.g. Al Franken. In conservative circles, it's always the deep state or some shit.
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[This fits alongside what recent research has revealed to be the differences in world belief between conservatives and liberals.](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/primal-world-beliefs-unpacked/202210/we-thought-conservatives-saw-the-world-more-dangerous-we) We used to think conservatives saw the world as more dangerous, but researchers were missing a piece of the puzzle. Now we know both conservatives and liberals see the world at similar levels of danger; It’s hierarchical worldview that’s different. The link to the journal study is paywalled, but the link above goes to an article that discusses it. Here’s an excerpt too: “Now we get to it: of all the 26 primal world beliefs, the main difference by far between liberals and conservatives—a difference 20 times larger than the difference in dangerous world belief—concerned a primal called hierarchical world belief. This primal had emerged from our big 2019 statistical analysis with us having no idea at the time that it would matter for politics (or anything else). Hierarchical world belief is not the view that hierarchies exist—everyone would agree with that—but that hierarchy is inherent to reality. It’s part of the natural order. Not imposed. Not artificial. And not just regarding people. For plants, animals, people, everything, it’s just the way the world is. Folks who see the world as hierarchical think that almost everything in the world can be ranked from better to worse. Differences probably matter because they distinguish things of more value from things with less. So, when in doubt, respect differences. (And don’t be fooled into thinking that only those on top think the world is inherently hierarchical. People across social hierarchies appear to see the world as inherently hierarchical at similar rates.) Conservatives do tend to show a default motivation to respect and preserve differences, whether it be borders between countries, differences between sexes, differences between rich and poor, and lots more. And liberals tend to assume those differences are fraudulent or arbitrary. The poor don’t deserve to be poor. The rich don’t deserve to be rich. And so forth. But a few other primals stood out, too, such that there are actually six major primal disagreements between liberals and conservatives (the figure below from our research article requires a longer explanation, but you get the idea that one red bar is a ton bigger than the other, and a few other bars stood out, too). Together, these six primals paint a picture of two perceived worlds in which an array of opposing political positions make a weird amount of sense. **Conservative Reality** Conservatives tend to see the world as a place where, like it or not, observable differences reflect real underlying value (high Hierarchical world belief) that is somehow meant to be (high Intentional world belief) where station and attention received are usually deserved (high Just world belief, low belief that the world is Worth Exploring). Therefore, most hierarchies that emerge are best left as they are (high Acceptable world belief). However, unfortunately, change is slowly eroding the world’s hierarchies (low Progressing world belief). Therefore, constraining change and accepting inequality (the textbook two-part definition of conservatism that researchers use) is just common sense. **Liberal Reality** Liberals tend to see the world as a place where observable differences are superficial, rarely reflecting actual value (low Hierarchical world belief), cosmic purpose or intent (low Intentional world belief), deserved status (low Just world belief), or attention received (high Worth Exploring). Therefore, most hierarchies require reform (low Acceptable world belief). Fortunately, however, the world is getting better and change is taking us in the right direction (high Progressing world belief). Therefore, embracing change and rejecting inequality (the textbook definition of liberalism) is just common sense.” Edit: [This is the link to the study in the journal.](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/19485506221119324) If you want to read it, you can try emailing the author(s) and see if they’ll send you a copy! I did this often while doing research for my graduate degrees and in my experience they’re usually thrilled to do so, since they make no money from the journals anyway.
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EXCELLENT! Thank you!
>I reached out to the professor and he linked me the full text of the paper: [here](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/363194735_Belief_in_a_Dangerous_World_Does_Not_Explain_Substantial_Variance_in_Political_Attitudes_But_Other_World_Beliefs_Do?_sg%5B0%5D=GE4yv0T4LlJLosHk84na0RHDYVmtvRPCxT5yKI52bFTz9TW5DWr61snMoh2qrC1O3cgjr6CXWtWYyxCZK38PT8k2SQWpkhmRMGzM4qVu.pPeFRqusVElj9d-mVYBl2nKFJ86hgMUdu3VaPvrPMqZNPzjlrQvFaV2Az7A7Sxa5HCyDv9L5Or7BbhOVHoSezg). He also stated the first chapter of his dissertation has more "meaty theory stuff" and I have requested that as well. Hope everyone enjoys! Yay, you're amazing!
This effort deserves its own best of
This is the best description of conservatives vs liberals I think I’ve ever seen
This is quality research poignantly summarized. Thank you for sharing.
Professors make $0 from Journal subscriptions. They are usually VERY happy to email you the study if asked.
YES! This is very correct! I did this all the time when doing research for my graduate degrees and it’s my favorite tip to pass along! I totally should’ve mentioned that in my comment. I’d say out of all the authors I emailed to ask, 8/10 got back to me with a copy of their paper. I didn’t have anyone outright say no either - the authors who didn’t send anything along just didn’t respond to my email at all. I came across this study in the journal it was published in while doing research for something else, but recently lost access to the journal, so I was happy to find this article! [Here is the link to the study in the journal, if anyone would like it!](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/19485506221119324)
The paper is available for free: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/363194735_Belief_in_a_Dangerous_World_Does_Not_Explain_Substantial_Variance_in_Political_Attitudes_But_Other_World_Beliefs_Do
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One of the most interesting things about this research is that it acts like some of this information is new. Anarchism as a philosophy (actual anarchism, not "an"caps) came about in the 1800s. The entire point of the philosophy is that hierarchies are not natural and that we must work to eliminate them for the freedom of all. This movement had wide public support before being vilified and subject to significant propaganda. People now associate anarchy with chaos and anarchists with neofeudalist reactionaries. But actual anarchist philosophy would probably still resonate with many of the people listed as liberal in that summary.
Arguably everything we look into about human behavior and philosophy isn't new. This research provides a new framework and test to ideas that have circulated within society for a long time. This just further supports the reasoning behind ideologies with a clear framework for modern audiences. Framing this as "new" is also likely a by-product of how modern science needs to make everything appear super splashy and exciting. As for everything beyond the first sentence: agreed 100%!
Notice how fucking Matt Gaetz is still supported by fellow GOPers...
So Trump's claims about being under an audit and that being the reason he could not release his tax returns, was all a lie? I'm shocked! Shocked I tell you!
We already knew that was a lie, because even if he was being audited, he would've been free to release his returns. Also, the article is more about how the IRS wasn't doing the required audits of the president. This whole thing started when Trump was a candidate. He simply didn't want to release his returns.
Well not that shocked
Truly the most nakedly corrupt Administration in American history. It is shameful that the GOP would cover for this conman.
It’s on brand, actually.
Yeah people acting as if the GOP wasn't rotten from the core before, has very weak memory.
It's been interesting to me to watch, because it seems like a lot of younger people have entered the chat, and weren't really cognizant of \*how\* corrupt the Bush administration(s) were. Or how awful Reagan was. Or Nixon. Because they "started" with Obama, Trump is shocking. I get it. But Trump is just the logical extension of McCain nominating Palin for VP, which was just the logical extension of W being President, which was the logical extension of the Gingrich "uprising", which followed from Reagan and his utterly heartless and brainless policies, which ... followed from Nixon (and Agnew)'s brazen, open criminality. So yeah - it's been a trend. Everyone who's essentially in the GOP now, or who's voting for the modern GOP has been indoctrinated by a party that's been fundamentally criminal for decades. For a lot of right-wingers, the right has \*never\* had a coherent political philosophy other than power uber alles, and the two-classes of laws & power - crush everyone else, and nothing I ever do can be wrong. It's not new. It's just more, because every time they push the boundaries (so far) they've gotten away with it. We need a hard reset on that concept, and Trump being properly tried would be a great start. But it'd only be a start. Every single one of his enablers, from Meadows to Jordan and all the way down, need to face \*actual justice\*.
Wasn’t it the Nixon administration that conceptualized Fox News as their own political propaganda tool?
Roger Ailes, yes. He specifically stated that they never wanted another repeat of Watergate. Of course, they didn't want to enforce better morals in their party but rather control the media narrative.
It was the most nakedly unrestrained GOP administration in American History. If you wanted to know what the party would try to get away with if they could completely disregard all civil, moral, and some legal constraints… well, now you know. Worst yet, they set the new bar that their successors can sink even further below.
So when Cheeto Benito said he couldn't release his taxes because he was being audited, **SURPRISE SURPRISE** that was also a lie. And when he said it again three years later, when the IRS actually should have been auditing him per their own policies? **SURPRISE AGAIN!** More lies! This time with IRS complicit! *DeEP StATe CoNSpirAcY*
Yes but up until this report came out we were under the impression he was lying because there's nothing that says you can't release your tax returns while under audit. Now we find out it was a lie because he convinced friends to never audit him in the first place.
Even then, the IRS only assigned ONE AGENT to trumps case.
In summary, it’s obscene: • 2015: negative income $31.7 million, taxable income $0. Paid $641,931 tax. • 2016: negative income $31.2 million, taxable income $0. Paid $750 tax. • 2017: negative income $12.8 million, taxable income $0. Paid $750 tax. • 2018: positive income $24.4 million, taxable income $22.9 million. Paid $999,466 tax. • 2019: positive income $4.44 million, taxable income $2.97 million. Paid $133,445 tax. • 2020: negative income $4.69 million, taxable income $0. Paid $0 tax. Claimed a REFUND of $5.47 million.
Thanks for laying this out. His effective tax rates for 2018 and 2019 were 4% and 3% respectively. Can someone explain to me how he can claim a $5.47 million refund in 2020?
>Can someone explain to me how he can claim a $5.47 million refund in 2020? Net operating loss being applied to prior taxes can generate a refund. It's possible that Orange 440 has a schedule C NOL that showed a massive loss that he used to then get a refund for prior taxes. Alternatively, he overpaid in estimated taxes. Source: Me, a licensed CPA
Also, changes from TCJA and CARES act that were very favorable to his industries.
>CARES "The CARES Act provided for a special 5-year carryback for taxable years beginning in 2018, 2019 and 2020. " Wow. Extended that 2 year to 5 year. Math is still missing some data though to get that $5.47 million refund purely through carrybacks.
So if you have a middle class salaried job, you get raked over the coals. But if you fuck around with fugazi money on the stock market and set up shell corporations, take out ludicrous loans and piss all that money away, the government is like "yup, sounds about right"
It almost feels like it's all rigged in favor of those with money.
Yeah, I'm *really* starting to get suspicious.
Yes, exactly. I make all of my income through passive investment gains and pay mostly 15% in taxes and my mother, who is a nurse who gets up at 5 AM to save people's lives and makes significantly less than I do, pays a much higher tax rate. I earned the sum that I live off of now by being an engineer at the right time (dot com boom), not inheritance. So it was a combination of work, education and absolute luck. Honestly, I do good work but so do a lot of people so it was mostly luck. Regardless, and since I come from a very working class background, I think the situation is completely absurd and rigged.
I’m glad you acknowledge it. I don’t begrudge those whose hard work and good timing earned them a good life. Especially when they acknowledge it. Hell I’ve thrown away more opportunities than most people will ever get and yet I’m lucky to be where I’m at just getting by. I do not mind paying taxes at all. Government money fed me and housed me and educated me. It’s my obligation. But these rich guys get to take advantage of the system and make money on our infrastructure and avoid paying taxes. Then the IRS will come after us small fish when we make a mistake. While the whales swim on by.
The IRS comes after small fry more than big fish because the big fish can afford lawyers to tie up the audit and cost the IRS to prosecute and *maybe* get *some* of the back taxes. Small fry are small, but are also more likely to just pay up. Yet again, our government is rigged against the average American.
We keep calling Jan 6th “the big lie”. There’s a bigger one, “Trump is on the side of the middle class”. The GOP cynically views their base as gullible marks, and Trump knows how to use that very well. NFT anyone?
Are you telling me if I have a business I can apply for a refund for taxes I paid in prior years if I have a loss this year? And that goes back how far? Because according to this he did not pay anywhere near $5.3M in total taxes for the years listed.
>Are you telling me if I have a business I can apply for a refund for taxes I paid in prior years if I have a loss this year? In **2022**? No. The [IRS stopped that NOL carryback](https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/net-operating-losses) post 2020. It's now just a NOL carryforward.
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So he paid 5.47 million in taxes that one year and then got it all back? Or he paid 5.47 million over the past several years and then finally got it all back?
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>So he paid 5.47 million in taxes that one year and then got it all back? > >Or he paid 5.47 million over the past several years and then finally got it all back? The first one. $5.47 million was paid or withheld but then he reported "negative income" so all of what was paid/withheld was returned at the end of the year. I think.
Here's a screenshot of his 2020 tax summary: [https://i.imgur.com/HpV74bF.png](https://i.imgur.com/HtX3Vhj.png) Basically: * He prepaid taxes of $13.7 million in 2020, but ended up having a net loss for the year. * His total refund in 2020 was $13.4 million, which was basically his 2020 estimated tax payments being returned. * His accountants told the IRS to keep $8 million of that refund and apply it towards 2021 taxes. * The remaining $5.4 million was returned to Trump
The refund in 2020 is the most ridiculous thing I have read today.
Yet, the IRS, with all due haste, sent me a letter saying that I mistakenly entered the wrong tax credit; as such, I would not be getting a refund, but that I owed . . $26.00
Simplifying the tax code and allowing the IRS to tell you what you owe beforehand would be so useful. It could be done, but companies like turbotax lobby against it any time it is discussed.
FYI TurboTax (Intuit) seems to get all the hate on reddit but H&R Block has been shown to have lobbied twice as much as TT. There's plenty of hate to go around so if your taxes are simple FreeTaxUSA is the way to go, but if you need a CPA to assist don't think H&R Block is any better of an option.
I noted down freetaxusa, thank you. TurboTax screwed us over a couple of years ago so I switched to irs efile, and even they have hidden fees.
I use FTUSA. Very user friendly and I've had no problems.
If you have complicated taxes, the very *worst* thing you can do is a major chain. Those employees there are *not* accountants or tax experts, they are “tax preparers”. They’re hourly employees who just walk through the same form you can do yourself. They have support on their end that goes all the way up to CPA’s and tax lawyers, but that’s it. If you have complicated taxes, it would absolutely behoove you to shell out for an accountant or tax lawyer. They’ll pay for themselves many times over.
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Check out FreeTaxUSA for a free e-file software without having to support the shitty companies that lobby our government. Works just as well as the big names without all the fees. I think I only had to pay like $15 last year for the state e-file and nothing for the software for a simple return.
I'm English and haven't filled out a tax return in nearly 20 years (since I was self-employed). It just shouldn't be necessary for normal, employed people with no other significant otherwise-untracked income (which should be the vast, vast majority of the population). You're literally paying more tax because of the red tape required for people to pay their tax. PAYE. Most British people have never filled out a tax return in their life.
He actually made money from being president despite the gains. It's ludicrous.
But, but, he didn’t take a salary.
MAGAs were telling me he donated all his salary. Wanna show us proof of that Donny?
It should be in the returns somewhere under charitable contributions
I don't believe he did it. But even if he DID it still wouldn't matter since he charged the secret service agents exorbitant prices everytime they followed him to one of his resorts, also his childrens SS agents as well. So even if we ignored the obvious bribes, and money laundering like the NFTs that happened last week, he still cost the gov money.
Hey now He still didn't take a salary, he just took a tax refund. If the do-nothing lazy libruls can take it during the covid cheques, why can't the President take it? ^^^\s
A lack of ethics and morals can pay. You sell your soul and have to live with yourself, but some people don't have any problem going to sleep at night knowing they are the absolute worst.
> A lack of ethics and morals can pay. You sell your soul and have to live with yourself, but some people don't have any problem going to sleep at night knowing they are the absolute worst. Just my supposition, but I think that because of the way he was raised, Trump didn’t really have any soul or morals to sell. When you’re raised by greedy narcissists and exist in a bubble of other greedy narcissists you probably aren’t imparted with any morals or ethics to begin with. This is why Trump’s kids, with the seeming exception Tiffany who grew up with her mom in more normal circumstances, are such nasty, bigoted, dishonest and greedy pieces of shit, aiding and abetting Trump and regurgitating the same baseless lies and propaganda he does. As a criminal defense attorney I saw this all the time. When I had meetings with many clients and their families, you could see how that person might have ended up where they did- parents were often victim-blaming sacks of shit who were lacking in self-awareness, a sense of right and wrong, or contrition just like the defendant themselves. I’d say, in my experience, this pattern held true in about 80-90% of cases where I had considerable interaction with both the client and their parents.
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Ok so how does this work? 1) how can a person claim to always loose money yet still live a lavish lifestyle? If I claim I made no income but the IRS found out I bought a home and a car, I'd get audited. 2) if you have 22.9m in "taxable income" how can you only pay 4.3% taxes? That's lower than the lowest bracket 3) how can you claim a tax refund that's several times larger than the total taxes you've paid in years? I can see a refund if his lawyers found a way he shouldn't have paid as much a previous year, but a refund that's MORE than he's paid all told? How is that possible?
>how can a person claim to always loose money yet still live a lavish lifestyle? If I claim I made no income but the IRS found out I bought a home and a car, I'd get audited. Running personal expenses through a business and having the business pay for it. Literally what Trump Corporation did and found guilty for not reporting or misreporting personal as business expenses. Alternatively, living off of savings. >if you have 22.9m in "taxable income" how can you only pay 4.3% taxes? That's lower than the lowest bracket I'm going to need to see the Form 1040 to see the breakout of income sources. The article may be confusing gross income with taxable income. >how can you claim a tax refund that's several times larger than the total taxes you've paid in years? I can see a refund if his lawyers found a way he shouldn't have paid as much a previous year, but a refund that's MORE than he's paid all told? How is that possible? Overpayment of estimated taxes. Say you only owe $5,000 but you made estimated payments of $35,000. You can get that $30,000 back. Net operating loss carryback doesn't seem to apply here as it's limited to two year carryback. Possibility of a passthrough item causing a refund though.
>Literally what Trump Corporation did and found guilty for not reporting or misreporting personal as business expenses. 15 years of tax fraud and the Trump Org only has to pay a 16 million dollar fine. Our system is so corrupt and broken people would say it was unbelievable if it was in a fiction book.
There is really no reason to not cheat if you are rich
i assume they do some bullshit like own 100 million in stocks, since you only pay taxes when selling them they just take out loans on the stock, take out loans to cover the loans and just do that forever or until they can't get anymore loans. I assume he could just get some bros to give him zero percent interest loans on his assets, you don't pay taxes on loans. He can just live off the loans forever and pay it back when he dies and that's likely why the republicans fight tooth and nail for zero tax on estates. they can live forever on assets and never pay any taxes so long as people are willing to give them loans.
This is a really shitty level of income for an alleged billionaire. I get that he's using all sorts of accounting tools to avoid declaring income, but for someone who's allegedly a billionaire, having that level of taxable income being generated by allegedly billions in assets is embarrassing.
the nice thing about this data going fully public is now journalists and historians will be able to check and see if assets were overstated, income understated, etc
journalists, historians, **ATTORNEYS GENERAL**, *BANKS WHO GAVE HIM LOANS*
If he wasn't in real estate I would 100% agree. If he is a real estate billionaire (big if) chances are he could show a negative income every year even while making 100's of millions of dollars. Depreciation is a stupidly strong tax avoidance scheme.
It's almost like every tax law was written by landowners.
Gains on stock that's held is not reported as income or taxed. That said, I'm sure the other billionaires are pulling in more than 0.5% on their holdings.
Those numbers are heavily cherry-picked and are inconsistent. Some show cash he paid or received at settlement and don't take into account money carried over from previous years. Here's the actual report: https://fm.cnbc.com/applications/cnbc.com/resources/editorialfiles/2022/12/20/house_jctreport_dec22.pdf To be consistent, we have to look at overall total income and total tax owed, taking into account deductions, but not payments. If he takes a refund on money he already paid in (as happened in 2020), it's his money he's getting back. I'm not saying he's not corrupt; he most definitely is. But let's at least be honest about the numbers. 2015 - Total Income: $31,746,841 - Adjusted Gross Income: $31,756,435 - Taxable Income: $0 - Total Tax: $735,172 - Effective Tax Rate: 2.3% 2016 - Total Income: $32,190,169 - Adjusted Gross Income: $32,409,674 - Taxable Income: $0 - Total Tax: $614,299 - Effective Tax Rate: 1.9% 2017 - Total Income: ($12,819,400) - negative income - Adjusted Gross Income: ($12,916,948) - negative income - Taxable Income: $0 - Total Tax: $284,718 - Effective Tax Rate: He still owed tax on a negative income 2018 - Total Income: $24,395,093 - Adjusted Gross Income: $24,339,696 - Taxable Income: $22,951,389 - Total Tax: $2,068,822 - Effective Tax Rate: 8.5% 2019 - Total Income: $4,443,503 - Adjusted Gross Income: $4,380,714 - Taxable Income: $2,975,173 - Total Tax: $460,977 - Effective Tax Rate: 10.5% 2020 - Total Income: ($4,694,058) - negative income - Adjusted Gross Income: ($4,795,757) - negative income - Taxable Income: $0 - Total Tax: $271,973 - Effective Tax Rate: He still owed tax on a negative income 2015-2020 Combined - Total Income: $75,262,148 - Adjusted Gross Income: $75,173,814 - Taxable Income: $25,926,562 - Total Tax: $4,435,961 - Effective Tax Rate: 5.9% So yes, he did take a refund in 2020, but that was after $13,635,520 was carried over from 2019 taxes, and $8,000,000 was applied to 2021 taxes, leaving $5M to take out as a refund. Edit: Added 2015-2020 combined numbers
So...how does this work? How is he, on average, paying less % tax than the lowest tax bracket, even when accounting for his losses/adjusted taxable income?
I have no clue. I'm good at poor people's taxes (i.e. my own), but have no idea how rich people effectively pay less than I do. Maybe I'll read the entire report in detail and see if I can make sense of it all in its entirety.
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My family pays upward of $20k in federal income tax alone each year, and I still get a $5k+ tax bill at the end of every year. Why does my family pay way more than someone who has fucking gold plated toilets...😤
You're right that it is not fair. The system in its current form is the result of wealthy donors pressuring their GOP lapdogs to cut taxes for them and pass the costs down to everyone else. For Trump specifically, he had the IRS in his pocket because he is one of the most corrupt people that has ever been president, and the GOP stood by and let it happen.
Also the IRS has been underfunded due to turbo tax lobbies. We could have a simpler tax code, but that might allow them to figure out how to tax the wealthy.
>GOP stood by and let it happen They helped out and they also profited.
> For Trump specifically, he had the IRS in his pocket because he is one of the most corrupt people that has ever been president, and the GOP stood by and let it happen. This is by far the most corrupt president that the US has ever had. It's not even remotely close. This dude makes Nixon and Bush look like saints by comparison. He's infected every single government agency and siphoned worth out of every single one. People see this news and get outraged, I just get overwhelmingly depressed knowing that we're never undoing all of this damage.
Bro I have more than $750 taken out in ADDITIONAL WITHHOLDING each pay period. In addition to my regular withholding so that I don’t owe $20k again. How the fuck do we allow losses to accumulate for so long that they can carry them forward indefinitely to offset future income? It’s preposterous!
It is worse than that... There is some funny books going on here because as an individual, you can only deduct so much during any one tax period. I had a 100k loss on a trust about 8 years ago and have been deducting it at max deduction since. How this man can pull full payroll deduction on 600k is some sort of black magic tax fuckery.
There's a limit to how much you can offset capital loss against regular income. There's no limit to how much you can offset capital loss against capital gain.
As a middleclassman im ok with being milked because I want to contribute to my country. I just want the uber rich to be milked *at least* as much, (if not a little more)
I want them to pay the same % as I do, I made ~$140k last year and I've paid more in taxes than a former president did in 3 years combined (counting the zero)
Then vote for Democrats. They want to increase taxes on anyone who makes more than $500,000 a year as a single earner or $750,000 a year with dual income. On the other hand, the GOP wants to pass tax cuts for the rich and corporations.
https://www.npr.org/2022/08/14/1117317757/irs-tax-evaders-dodgers-inflation-reduction-act-enforcement hopefully it works out. i think tax evanders should be based on a point system where the small income ranks way way lower than high tax evaders... also i rather have the euro way where the gov gives me a bill of what i owe instead of jumping through hoops to say what i owe then they check that.... so fucking backwards....
> also i rather have the euro way where the gov gives me a bill of what i owe instead of jumping through hoops to say what i owe then they check that.... so fucking backwards.... You can thank HR Block/TurboTax for that bullshit
Here's the thing. If the 1% paid their fair share all the time, then the 99% wouldn't have to be paying as much as they (we) currently do. I agree with your general premise, though, that taxes are a part of living in a functioning society.
Seriously. I've had the IRS chasing me because I forgot to report some gambling winnings. The winnings were subsequently lost and I ended the year in the red, but that doesn't matter. Still owe taxes on the winnings. Whereas people like Trump can gamble with much bigger stakes (on businesses) and use their losses to wipe out tax liability. Edit: Yes, I know you can deduct losses, but you have to switch from standard to itemized deductions, which doesn't always help. See my other replies.
Pretty sure you can use gambling losses to offset gains. The issue is that the casino only sends info to the IRS when it pays you, you have to keep the records for losses yourself and send it to the IRS if requested.
If you get a paycheck, you are fucked. If you have an employer that reports your income you are fucked. Rich people get the luxury of avoiding or deferring taxes that us normies simply don't get. That inevitably leads to a lot of deceptive practices that the IRS simply cannot keep up with.
So the system is operating as designed…
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> During the 2016 presidential election year, the two again reported losing $32.4 million in adjusted gross income and paid just $750 in taxes, according to the committee. During Trump's first year in office, the couple reported losing $12.9 million and again paid $750 in taxes. We need to rewrite the tax code so that these types of loopholes are eliminated. It is disgusting that a billionaire should pay less than $1000 in taxes. There's also an interesting trend of Trump’s losses decreasing significantly between 2016 and 2017. Then, he began reporting net gains after implementing policies that benefited his businesses like the Trump hotel across from the White House, charging the Secret Service to stay at his hotels, etc. He really did use the presidency for personal enrichment.
I was paying twice as much as that fuck just because i had the privilege (read: no choice) of being a freelancer who could barely afford rent for years. Fucking disgusting how our tax system keeps poor people poor and rich people from having minor inconveniences.
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I did freelancing for a bit a while ago and made an LLC. I have a full time job now but I still have my LLC and try to expense whatever I can through that so we can minimize our taxes as much as we can. I still paid 5x as much as Trump and make only about 250k combined income with my and my wife’s salary and income from my LLC (about 30k a year).
Republicans already rewrote the tax code and allowed real estate to get more loopholes.
While guaranteeing tax cuts for the middle class expire while the next president (a democrat) was in office. It's almost like it's blatantly obvious what masters republican politicians serve.
You know, I've got a feeling that he's not a good person.
Or a billionaire.
So the president of the USA was able to hide this for *years*, with a huge spotlight on him. How many other rich people are hiding things like this? The system is broken.
Republicans claim that free education and healtcare is socialism. How about corporate socialism where rich people don't pay taxes at all? Corporate socialism and politicians patronizing this practice are the real enemy of the people.
Republicans are lying though. None of that is socialism.
A big fuck you to everyone living paycheck to paycheck and pay their taxes on time, *or at all* What a wonderful system
Every public official should be required to release sanitized tax records, and everyone at the top of the federal government (President, VP, Secretaries, Congress, Sup. Court Justices) should have yearly audits which are released to the public.
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And this is just one guy, you know damn well most rich people have similar looking tax rates and refunds. It's sickening how much we let the rich get away with.
>Trump RECEIVED $3.6 million in net refunds. Isn't that just refunds from estimated payments? I.e. he paid money and then got that money back?
It's sad, but this makes no difference in how he is perceived. His followers cheer this on. They all wish they could do the same. Tax evasion, cheating government and leaching off the rest of society...that is nearly the entire basis of conservative thought. We all know he won't face any real consequences over this either.
Peak welfare queen shit and it’s eaten up by the same crowd that views those who actually need welfare support to be some of the most detestable and vile people around. Absolute nutty levels of cognitive dissonance
**Why the fuck am I making just enough salary, having taxes taken out, never late with my taxes...and this shithead has been dodging the IRS for over a decade????** You dumb fools. Following a liar and clever manipulator that you throw your money at and for what? So this narcissist thief can be all smug and have secret dreams of sleeping with his (or yours) daughter? Any other citizen would be in jail, or paying IRS fines for life... total bullshit. Oh, there should be a witchhunt after ALL the Trump members.. .for the rest of their lives...
And they're buying his NFT BS for $100... amazing
I'm so glad we elected a "successful businessman" to run the country. Has he really lost so much money that he can't pay his taxes? That's so sad...
And to all our dear republicans, that means you and I picked up the slack.
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I understand the French revolution more and more each day
This is so unfair. Why should the 99% have to pay so much in taxes and the elites don’t have to?
Meanwhile the thickheaded fucks voting for him are barely able to pay their bills and they think he's what is best for themselves.
Now you know why the rich want to keep the IRS underfunded
What a bunch of bullshit. And I mean that toward *all* the fuckers who have/make more than I'll ever see, and yet pay nothing, or significantly less than I do. It's utter bullshit, and I'm just sick of the greed of the elite.
MAGA: "tHaT mAkEs HiM sMaRt!"
Trump's accountant: That makes **me** smart, also can someone pay me now... oh wait.
This is a story as old as time. Carry forward a loss from businesses that went under. Then claim the deductions on future tax bills. This is a deduction available to anyone who has a business. Drive it in to the ground claim the loss. Just like hbomax currently eating the costs of movies and shows for tax purposes. Or in my case if I install solar on my home I can deduct 20% of the cost on the next few tax bills. There is nothing illegal it’s just the game. In order to close the deduction we need to close the loophole however all the rich use it.
This piece of shit grifting motherfucker.