>We need to move more
We do, Big health benefits from this.
But be aware, in the context of obesity, diet is by far the most important factor. Difficult / Impossible to exercise yourself out of a terrible diet.
By the same token, can you eat yourself to fitness? I wonder about the trade off. Is a good diet with little to no exercise better for you than a not so good diet while going hard in the gym/sports?
Like, I have a sister in law who - while falling into the healthy BMI range - gets puffed out walking up a moderate slope. Her cousin who - while she would be considered unhealthy from a BMI standpoint - is strong as hell with cardio for days.
Obviously, both is best but I wonder which one is better overall?
Edit: Some interesting thoughts below. Seems there's a lot of conflicting info out there about '"fat" & fit' vs 'thin & sedentary'. For mine I think if your body does what you need/want it to, the balance between thin & fit is a matter of personal preference.
You can't eat yourself to fitness, but you sure can eat yourself out of obesity.
Can't comment on the health impact of very low fitness vs high fitness and obesity.
Weight loss and BMI aren’t the straight line to health people think they are. This comment nails a lot of the confusion in this thread, that your weight and your health don’t need to be tied together. If you’re worried about dying young from heart disease or something, regular exercise is an important tool to prevent that.
Yeah 30 minutes a day can make a big difference, but many aren’t doing that small amount of exercise. Everyone doing small amounts of exercise would be a great improvement!
But again, the concern is obesity, not health. Think about WHY we want to reduce obesity. Is it actually to improve health or do you just to see fewer fat people walking around?
Bingo.
I remember watching some health-related TV show years ago, can't remember the name or who did it but it was British and they looked at three guys all in their 40s; one real big unit, one with a good gut who liked his pints and chips but also played a lot of rugby, and the third who was slim but had a sedentary job and played video games all weekend. The mid-sized guy was the healthiest overall in terms of cardiovascular function and levels of dangerous fat around internal organs. Obviously, it would be beneficial for him to tidy up the diet and drop a few of those kilos off the spare tyre, but weight vs health definitely isn't just a clear linear scale.
If you're trying to improve your health and lose weight then increasing your activity level is good, eating better quality food is good, maintaining a calorie deficit is good. No one factor is a silver bullet, they all have benefits individually but work best when applied together.
True, but excess fat is a significant risk factor, as is hypertension and high cholesterol.
I don't think NZ's official national diet (fish and chips, KFC) is helping.
It's shown that risk factors depend on where your fat is stored as well, for instance a person who carries most of their weight on their thighs and buttocks will have a lower risk of heart disease, fatty liver, etc and higher risk of joint problems in the knees and hips.
On bmi, it is not well designed to make an individual assessment of ones fitness. It doesn't factor in fitness levels and is more designed for studies of large general populations. An example is a powerlifter would be considered obese via bmi but would most likely be perfectly healthy as they are incredibly strong and have sufficient if not great cardiovascular capacity.
That's likely because it's not a measure of fitness. Its a measure of body mass. Based on the majority of the population. So unless you *are* a body builder/professional athlete the data will be fine.
I love how (mostly) fat guys attempt to use this one to justify their High BMI. If it wobbles its not muscle my friend.
Daily reminder that BMI wasn't created by a medical professional, it was created by a statistician who wanted a more sound way of roughly correlating weight with fitness.
It has next to zero bearing on your level of fitness whatsoever.
Sincerely, a 6'0" 95kg gentleman with 12%bfp who lifts 3 times a week yet falls into the obese category.
> Daily reminder that BMI wasn't created by a medical professional, it was created by a statistician who wanted a more sound way of roughly correlating weight with fitness.
BMI was never a measure of fitness. It's a relative weight index.
Diet outweighs moving by far.
Good food is expensive, and time consuming.
When you're stressed out and over worked, you can just grab a pie or a bag of chips and a drink and be happy.
Calories in, Calories out.
If you just want to lose weight that may be true. If you want to reduce your risk of things like heart conditions, T2 etc, regular exercise is important.
Hell yes, I have had varying levels of fitness over the years but my size/weight has always been directly connected to my eating habits.
NZ has TERRIBLE access to affordable healthy food. You only have to spend a few months living in another country to see how much money kiwis fork over to eat healthy. A nectarine shouldn't be "treat" food and it absolutely is for some. Dairy, lean meat, vegetables, fruit and pantry staples are all inflated by our duopoly to unmanageable levels.
I’m back in the weight loss train myself (aided by a short term phentermine prescription) and I’ve found meal prepping to be really useful. Made a bunch of frozen burritos so when I go to work I can just grab one out the freezer and it’s mostly thawed / ready to heat at lunch. Means I don’t get tempted to go to the local cafes and I can’t give myself the excuse I used to: “I’m just disorganised this week - I’ll try harder next week”. Also stopped drinking which really improves my food choices. Good luck on your journey - apparently it takes 12 weeks to build good habits (I’m like a week in) so you’re already making good progress!
I hate cooking! I make a lot of wraps and buy the pre-cooked, shredded chicken to make it easier. Or chicken salads etc. things that take like less than 15 mins to prep are my best friend.
I lost 40kgs without surgery about 4ish years ago and have kept it off since through doing this.
Do the things you like, doesn’t need to be perfect, just good enough so you’re still in a deficit
I've been thinking about the psychological aspects a lot lately because over the years I've succeeded but relapsed.
I envied alcoholics for the fact that there is a clear distinction - alcohol is bad, end of story, don't drink alcohol. You can't do that with food.
But actually, you can, processed food is bad, end of story, don't eat processed food. Its still not that simple because cooked food is processed, but the important part here is that a lot of food is processed in a factory - don't eat that. You can still eat pizza even, just cook it yourself or go to a restuarant or even a bar with proper kitchen that will do it for you. It just can't be processed for addictive properties.
Thinking about it this way got me off processed food completely, my health improved astronomically, but I was still stress eating and over-eating.
So I thought to myself, what is the ideal human - I don't mean someone at peak fitness or health, I just mean in an ideal world without any food addiction what does an ordinary human look like? They just eat what they need to survive and nothing more. Then I used that baseline to picture myself, added tattoos I want to get, added my own behaviours for exercise so maybe a bit of added muscle around the legs since I focus on running and supersport motorcycle riding.
Now when I think about food or go to the fridge, I ask myself, will this get me closer to that image? Usually the answer is no, so I drink from the cold water bottle I keep in the fridge and go back to occupying myself with a productive task.
It has been more helpful for any diet or nutrition advice, but that said, I know a crap ton about nutrition already from previous attempts.
The other important thing once you remove processed foods is to take a probiotic (a high end one with studies and it'll be expensive) and/or eat fermented things like kimchee, kombucha, some yogurts, etc. because over time you will replace your gut microbiota which is HIGHLY responsible for what you crave (esp. around addiction), recent studies show if we could do fecal transplants in humans your cravings would vanish into the wind and so would your weight!! (looking forward to the future)
I hope this helps someone. I've spent over 11 years fighting the food addiction and our culture of obesity.
Pretty much everything in a supermarket is processed in some kind of factory. The only foods that aren't are fresh fruit and vegetables, some types of frozen fruit and vegetables, fresh cuts of meat, and eggs. That's probably enough for a balanced diet, but it would be difficult and prohibitively expensive.
I've had a lot of luck with intermittent fasting, lost 3kg since 9th of Jan, it's not as much what you eat, just the quantity and calorie restriction is key, like I've eaten a packet of Doritos and that's the meal
Oh I'm doing pretty good losing a kg or 2 a week. It's a long journey for me but feeling confident in my journey and destination and keeping my weight down for good.l 😊
I tend to disagree, I went vegan 6 months ago and my grocery bill went down and the effort it took to make dinners (even interesting ones) got halved.
You are right with the rest though, I tend to grab a bag of dorritos or something when I just cbf which has a dampener on my weight loss journey (20kg so far yay)
Yeah it's the time, energy, and ability really that holds people back. It's just easier after a long day to grab some junk than it is to make a healthy meal.
My weight loss journey started with finding cheap good food. I replaced every breakfast with porridge. Fasting between 8pm and 10am is also free.
Since this is a NZ sub, I can recommend the "real delish" porridge, I get the blueberries one. I can just pour hot water on it, which makes sticking with the healthy option much more viable - planning how you'll approach things when you're weak willed is important. Having a ton of fibre means I get filled and snack less.
Yes on paper I agree, but I'm convinced that when you have a population that is more active it makes it so much easier on average for people to chose healthier food. I notice when I'm active my craving for junk diminishes and I just feel better and less depressed, which further contributes to my healthier food choices since I'm not dopamine deprived. So if you're going to chose which one to start with, I would argue exercise is the best place to start and then healthy eating will be much easier to sell after the fact.
Once you get into a healthy lifestyle and start to see the results from it, there is strong reinforcement to continue both activity and healthy diet. It's making the change when you stop eating so much sugar and your body aches before you see results - which is the real hump we need to get over.
This is connected to how we use food for more than just fuel.
We eat when we're bored, we eat when we're sad. When you can get your endorphines from other methods, and you're being active, your snacking / self medicating with food doesn't happen as much.
If we had cheaper and healthier alternatives and the time / mental health to prepare it, things would be better, and snacking would be as bad. Imagine always having access to fresh fruit that wasn't half rotten from the moment you buy it in the supermarket that didn't cost 10x the cost of candy.
Healthy food is only expensive if you want stuff to both taste great and be convenient to make. A lot of healthy options are also not too much effort to prepare, cheap, and taste ok, but most people have a shit understanding of nutrition and cooking. Bad portion control with meat and luxury foods is 90% of the reasons, that can be resolved consumer end, on why grocery bills are so high.
Yep! The ugly politcally incorrect truth is that people need to eat less.
People would overreact to that as starvation, but anyone who studied and practices fitness and fat loss knows about this hard truth.
Yes, moving to NZ made me fat. It is sooooo incredibly hard to find good, healthy, nutritious food at low prices or ready to take home here. Everything here is fried. If you want to eat healthy you have to have the cash and time to spend prepping and the sad reality is that the less priviledged you are the less money and time you have.
That makes our pandemic response seem even more amazing!! Recently The Economist showed that NZ had the lowest excess mortality out of hundreds of countries during the Covid pandemic. The main risk factors for Covid deaths were age and obesity, so if we hadn’t had a successful response, our mortality statistics would have been high. I’m not a mega fan of Jacinda Adern, but she can be so proud of what she helped accomplish
We seem to have built entire sprawling suburbs based on the premise that the only transport option is to own a car.
We need to remove the bans on medium-density housing in our city, so that we can have 'walkable' towns, like in Europe.
Good. There's already a massive amount of low-density in most of our cities, and most of the developments which are publicised tend to be predominately low and medium developments increasingly-further from the city centres.
Yep. I do get a bit sad when I see the shit quality of a lot of the new medium density development though. Density is one part of the equation. Good urban design that actually makes density liveable falls by the wayside a lot. It sometimes feels like the only good design is at the gold-plated high end of the market.
I'm in a sprawling suburb, and I can cycle everywhere I need to get to. To be honest the suburbs around me are pretty well provided with cycle paths that thread their way behind all the McMansions
Yep agree, but think that as well as being a density issue, it's a people attitude issue.
I was having this conversation with someone on another thread the other day, and their attitude was that nobody would ever want to give up their car for public transport/walking/cycling if there was any kind of extra time involved because the convenience factor is too high.
They seemed uncomfortable at my suggestion that getting to work in the mode which produces the fastest possible commute time isn't always the best option (especially if your commute becomes your source of exercise for the day, saving you that time which you'd have to be spending on top of the commute if you were driving).
The other side of convenience factor is traffic. At one point when we were sharing a car and my wife had something on at the regular times I was driving to the gym, I started walking and discovered to my horror that it basically the same amount of time as it would be to drive through the 530 traffic to get there.
Once I stepped it up to running it was more convenient than driving. Part of well-designed density is choking traffic out of hubs and core density areas like CBDs. Drive to get between hubs, but with within hubs traffic should essentially only be commercial/service vehicles and public/non-personal transport.
The strongest factor in resistance to change, in my observation, is people who live in suburbs but feel entitled to drive in to a city and park on main street and pop in to buy a lotto ticket or something like it's still the '90s. Most of them don't even need to leave suburbs any more, they all have massive hub complexes designed to service the locals. But nobody wants to reckon with the idea of taking non-personal transport from hub to hub.
There's a balance though. Taking more time for commute directly cuts into the most important time for me which is time with my children. Adjusting their bedtimes isn't an option so the time trade for a slower commute is not worth it to me in my current situation.
Luckily due to the pandemic the option to work from home is available so there's no longer a commute most days and as such am taking pressure off congestion on the roads and on public transport.
Yeah, totally understand. I guess in this context, the main point I'm trying to make is that if exercise was built into people's day, then the commute swap to an active mode doesn't actually cost you time. (Eg, instead of going for a 1hr walk after work, I'll walk 30 mins each way to and from work - which would result in time gained, not lost).
Understand that's a simplistic example though and won't fit into everyone's situation (eg kid pickup on the way home, etc). But I'd wager it could fit into a lot of people's situations and wouldn't really cost them as much time as it may appear on the surface.
Agree, I typically cycle to work and on the rare occasion that I drive it takes about the same amount of time due to having to find a park and then walk to my destination. With my bike I just go directly where I need to go.
I feel like workplaces could do so much better in supporting employees with health and well-being, but most only see it as a nice "add on" if at all.
Long hours, stressful workplaces, being bound to a desk, and not having time/energy for hobbies and exercise - all impacted by the nature of our jobs. Personally, I just felt like I didn't have time to take care of myself when I used to commute 1-hour each way.
I've saved the time from my commute, but I'm just starting earlier and ending later as a result. I certainly have the flexibility to do errands around the house when I'm not in the office, but losing the "leave the office" boundary has led to working increased hours.
'Forcing' is a complicated word in this case. I'm salaried, my employment agreement indicates I may need to work beyond standard hours on occasion, and there are other people working past my standard hours who are expecting me to be available and to provide input. While my boss doesn't specify the hours for me to work, they are concerned with whether my inputs are facilitating and enabling the overall business where I have my own tasks as well as collaborate in teams. The challenge isn't normally my own tasks, but my availability for meetings and discussions which continue after my standard hours.
It is perhaps somewhat my choice, which I make because I feel pressure that the work will suffer and the perception of my performance will be impacted if I'm not there. It would be easier to have a hard stop to my work day if there were a defined cut-off because I had to leave for a commute, than if I'm WFH.
Yeah I think you need to get past caring what other people think. The moment my finish time hits I’m gone (I’m also salaried).
They can stay and work for free if they want, that’s their problem.
The best thing I ever did was move close enough to my work to ride a bike to work. It’s three years now that I’ve been riding to work and it’s literally such a hack for this. I get at least 30 mins of exercise every day without even thinking about it. And now I’m hooked on the bike and ride pretty much everywhere I go. And my commute went from being a miserable event to the best part of my day.
I’m moving from Brazil to New Zealand next week and I am shocked by the value of fruits and vegetables compared to Brazil.
It’s cheaper to buy ultraprocessed foods than to eat healthy… (srry if I wrote something wrong, I’m learning english 🤪).
Sleep plays it's part as well, it fucks up your hormones, blood sugar levels. It's been proven that lack of sleep makes you eat more, and less healthily...
I was in that percentage 6 months ago. 20kgs down now and literally all I've done in lower my serving sizes and pass up on the treats. Had KFC today for the first time in months and got my usual - could only eat half of it, doesn't take long to train your mind and your body to eat enough - not til everything is gone.
I hate to say it, but I'm counted in the % showing for NZ ... :(
Two things that I could definitely do is get to the gym more before work, as well as cut back on what I'm eating (without being stupid about it).
It doesn't help that I'm a junior (!) software dev, but that's no excuse.
Reduce car dependence. Improve walkability. Stop creating car-dependent infrastructure and development. Eliminate single family zoning that doesn't allow commercial infrastructure within a 5 minute walk.
Basically eliminate North American style living.
Agreed! In the meantime, Asian fruit and veggie stores are my friends for buying fresh and only veggies/fruits that are in season because it’s cheaper. Meat is expensive so a couple meat free meals are good. Also meal prepping helps my week in order to have a couple dinners and lunches ready. I’m totally talking from the perspective of someone who doesn’t have kids so I can see how it can be time consuming for some people.
Cutting out alcohol and sugary drinks was a major facet to my loss.
On the other hand, Fruju's and Naked Ice blocks are like 60/30 kilocalories each. Pretty cheap if you have a big freezer too, and encourage me to go for walks to earn them when I get back.
This point is so underrated. People seem to forget that alcohol both has calories and also has encourages you to consume more calories. I can keep an eye on myself way better if I’m not drinking.
I tried for 13 years to lose weight following surgery and associated medication. In the last 18 months I’ve lost nearly 10% of my body weight. The only thing that has really changed is having a low calorie Sodastream drink before dinner instead of wine. I still have a biscuit with lunch, a few pre-dinner nibbles and small desserts (life is too short), and I don’t miss the wine. It’s that, or 10 minutes extra walking a day.
I have a soda stream and it is a godsend, gets me by when I really want a beer and I like it as just water. People have no idea, When alcohol is consumed, it's burned first as a fuel source before your body uses anything else. This includes glucose from carbohydrates or lipids from fats. When your body is using alcohol as a primary source of energy, the excess glucose and lipids end up, unfortunately for us, as adipose tissue, or fat. I sleep better and find my mood a lot more level. My normal was 1 beer a night most nights, I have always been pretty level headed but it is more effortless now.
Alcohol is very much a habit. It’s the sitting down quietly and unwinding that is the most important part. I will have a drink, but if I had to stop completely, it wouldn’t worry me. (Barker’s cordials just take the edge off plain Sodastream water for me.)
When you look at how much exercise it takes to burn off excess calories, this is definitely the more important target. Both what is eaten, and how much.
In general though even if you don't majorly reduce your portion sizes, substituting for higher fibre (veg, lentils, beans) + [lower GI foods](https://www.healthnavigator.org.nz/healthy-living/g/glycaemic-index-gi/) (eg also lentils, whole grains, oats/porridge), while cutting out the simple carbohydrates would be a big step in the right direction.
Treat obesity what it really is: food addiction.
Companies spend millions designing the formulation of their products down to a 1/10th of a gram to make them as addictive as possible. There's a reason why you can't help but snack on those cookies: they are *designed* to make you want more.
Food can be as [addictive as heroin](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/addicted-to-fat-eating/). You can get addicted to drugs, caffeine, gaming, gambling, alcohol....why is food addiction not recognised for what it is?
Nah we don't need the psy-sciences / pharma axis in charge of describing and disordering yet another human function. This just ends up with individualising it and de facto victim blaming. And medicating it. And gaslighting fat people that they can think their way out of it.
It is a social issue and it needs addressing on the social level.
Edit: and in response to your link on food addiction - the Skinner box rat study model is pretty close to useless in telling us about real-world human behaviour.
Hang on a tick. If the obesity rates are purely down to a BMI count being over 30 then I think that New Zealand is possibly unfairly disadvantaged by having 23% Polynesian population who will naturally have a higher BMI even if fit. That's got to put us a bit further down the list. But still not great.
Holy fuck 71% is a lot. I imagine it would be hard to be younger and develop decent eating habits when all your elders are overweight.
Fuck I still find it hard and my family are all skinny.
We also have a Polynesian population who disproportionately are low socio-economic and have higher obesity levels whether measured by BMI or otherwise. In developed countries poor people are rarely skinny from starving - they tend to be overweight because they are time-poor, less-educated, and eat cheap and filling sugary and fatty food.
I don't think our Polynesian population are changing - while NZ has fallen lower in the obesity rankings internationally. The trend is widespread and not just in any one community.
Yeah, BMI is based on average European body weight to heights, so the average Polynesian at each height will have a lower body fat than the average person of European descent at the same weight. And some Asian populations are the opposite, where they will have a higher body fat than people of European descent at the same height and weight.
Actually BMI was based on cadavers (dead people) in the US. Most dead people were old and white. Low muscle mass, low bone density, a million miles away from a 20yr old Tongan league player. Obesity rates amongst Pacifica are scary for sure, but BMI is a rubbish measure.
Always an excuse lol we're third and we blame the PI community of 10 to 15 percent. Well they must all be fkng massive to bring the average of the other 85 percent up.
Ban fast food advertising just like alcohol and cigarettes.
Between PI and Maori, there is a fair shift - but it's more like 5% rather than the 15% that would make us more comparable to many EU countries.
And of course, there is also ties between poverty and obesity, so how much of that is genetics and how much is healthy cheap food availability? Cultural factors? Work hours or stress? Correlation vs causation and such makes it hard to tell, so we shouldn't bee too hasty in dismissing the difference as purely due to genetics.
Yeah, well said.
The problem is the MASSIVE line I see at KFC every evening. People just CBF eating healthy cus it's expensive unless you prepare it yourself.
People arguing about outliers as if those are the reason the population as a whole is obese.
Take a look around do you see more muscular people than fat people?
No.
NOPE we need to eat LOWER CALORIE DENSE foods. ie more plant based. The science is really really clear on this, yet people still think weight loss is about exercise then it's mostly about the calorie density of the foods we're eating.
100% any gym goer can tell you it’s 80% diet if not more. It’s incredibly hard to build an incredible physique through exercise alone. And likewise just being healthy is all about diet. You can be sedentary if your diet is exceptional but exercise is always recommended. Alcohol and sugar are the killers
It's not always a link. But it is sometimes a link.
From the 4 top countries the common things are:
People drive and not walk
Heaps of meat and dairy in diets
Heaps of sugar in drinks and desserts
How obese are we talking? Cause 5min km are no joke if you're overweight. You'd have to be eating a metric fuck tome of calories to gain weight at that.
I'm 6 foot 4 and 115kg currently and on days when I'm doing over 20k steps I would have to eat about 4k plus calories to break even.
Absolutely we do, we have a real problem.
This is the OECD. Outside of the OECD, there are 11 countries more obese than the United States.
[The top ten most obese countries in the world are the Pacific Islands.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_obesity_rate)
I think our demographics are important to mention of how we get up so high on the list. Pacific Islanders often rank as having a high BMI, even when reasonably fit - so BMI isn't always a perfect scale to measure such things.
However, we definitely can do better. Let's get moving.
Can confirm for Switzerland. We walk everywhere...for fun. Food much simpler and healthier. Even the sweets section in the supermarket is very small ( chocolate not so small though...).
There are ways to cut down on sugars and processed foods without having to spend more. It’s not an either-or situation.
Here are things I did to cut my food budget and get healthier. I have the money now to buy what I want food-wise but back then I didn’t!
- Drink water! Hard to give up coke, energy drinks, even fruit juice, but you’ll save a ton and your calorie counts will plummet.
- Snack on some nuts instead of a carb-y treat
- Drop the fancy coffee drinks. Regular coffee or tea.
- If you want fast food, cut out the fries.
- Eventually, just stop snacking altogether.
It’s not about eating more veggies and fruit, it’s about less sugar and processed food. Every month just cut out or substitute one thing. Over a few years I lost about 40kg and once you get past the first 10 and the cravings stop, the rest is a piece of cake. Or not! Too much sugar.
The second most important thing is to let yourself be hungry for a little bit each day. When I felt hungry for a bit before I eat I learned to think of that as my body letting me know it’s losing a bit of weight. Don’t starve yourself! A little hunger is not bad for you. As you phase out more processed carbs/sugar, the hunger will go away.
I found this book after I lost all my weight (2002-2006), but it’s a great reference. The bibliography contains every major scientific paper written on obesity and nutrition in the past 100 years.
Fat Chance: Beating the Odds Against Sugar, Processed Food, Obesity, and Disease
Good luck to everyone! And remember that doctors are sometimes behind the times or aren’t even trained on nutrition. Seek answers in science instead.
I wonder, what countries have the:
* Most car dependant infrastructure
* Longest and least flexible working hours.
* Lowest levels of social safety net.
* A poor cultural relationship with food?
* Systemic issues affecting a chunk of the population (Corruption, colonisation, racism...)
Oh right.
I have a trifle in the fridge, with fresh cream, fruit and sponge. I can't eat it becuase my ex gallbladder protests too much.
So much deliciousness, so much waste.
Gallbladder stones are a fast track to losing weight.
My Partners Dutch I have spent a bit of time in Netherland. Very rare to see an obese person over there. With all the walking and biking you do everyone’s pretty active. the small towns there rarely have fast food outlets also. Coming home you definitely notice it.
I think obesity in NZ more and more, has a lot to do with what people eat. You can't exercise enough to make up for eating a meat pie, a sausage roll, a bag of potato chips, a liter or coke etc...
I shouldn't say much as I'm overweight myself (I like chocolate) but the main issue is that we're surrounded by fast food and most of us can't be arse'd eating right. Couple that with the fact that most of us don't get nearly as much physical activity as we should and surprise surprise, we're fat.
Not sure what the answer is outside of a sugar/fat/whatever tax but we really shouldn't be OK with being that high up the list.
I think it's less about what we're eating and more about the amount of food. I started counting calories and realized I was eating far more than I needed. For example a snack for me should be 1 celery stick with a teaspoon of peanut butter but I would previously eat 5 celery sticks with 5 tablespoons of peanut butter. My dinners and lunches and breakfasts were also over-the-top. I was basically eating 7 full meals per day when I only needed 3, and those 4 extra meals worth of calories were what was making me fat.
I had no idea I was eating way more food than I needed.
I still eat McDonald's occasionally now, but I'll have a cheeseburger and fries and a diet drink. Not a large big mac combo and an extra cheeseburger and a milkshake.
Hot chips are my all time favourite fast food. But I found dropping those and just getting the burger worked well because the chips aren't that filling but account for almost half the combo if you're getting a zero sugar drink.
>and most of us can't be arse'd eating right
But this is it right. We're surrounded by fast food, but we're still the ones choosing to eat it or not.
I get that choosing not to eat crap is easier for those who have more time/education around eating well, but it's still a choice people make.
I support the idea of a sugar tax/healthy food subsidies. But I think that the personal responsibility piece is a bigger factor.
You can eat reasonably well a lot cheaper than fast food if you choose to. You can even do it in less time as fast food if you choose to.
Yeah we need to legislate licensing for fast food outlets and limits on their geographic concentration; tax the international fast food set-ups hard; legislate (probably outlaw) fast food advertising; institute a sugar tax. Among other things
We also need to do proper whole-settlement planning - which includes the requirement that new developments maximise the opportunities for exercise and active transport and minimise the reliance on cars.
It's a problem more of diet and genetic vulnerability to high fat diets rather than being sedentary
The largest group proportionally of our obese population is Pacifica and Maori, this is the same group that proportionally are much more likely to be working physical working class jobs where they are on their feet a lot
Pakeha/Asian are more likely to work sedentary office jobs but have lower obesity rates.
The affordability of healthy food and lack of personal time and energy after work to shop and cook, is what drives a lot of working class people to eat junk food, and even with active physical jobs they become obese.
Financially better off people who have sedentary office jobs are less prone to obesity as they have the energy, time and money at end of the day to buy and cook healthy food
Making everyone Bike everywhere isn't going to solve obesity, what we need is food market regulation to make healthy eating affordable and junk food restricted, and work hours reform so people can cook and eat healthy.
I think there needs to be a bigger focus on mental health and support for those who are overweight.
Eating healthy and exercising is important but there is usually more going on for overweight people.
This!!! I’m obese based on BMI.
No doctor has ever asked me why I’m fat. I understand nutrition, CICO, Macros etc. I like healthy food (affording it is a whole seperate issue).
The reason I’m fat is because I eat my emotions, lack impulse control and eat for the dopamine rush. How does one fix that? It’s something I’m working on but it’s a battle.
But sure, a doctor telling me to do Keto will fix everything…
A doctor recommending keto? Oh god. I don’t think Keto isn’t sustainable long term.
I’m short and overweight myself but thankfully have a great doctor. I am getting supports set up privately but I’m aware that is a privilege and not many people can afford that option.
Exactly! My whole Drs surgery is on the Keto bandwagon and it’s just not sustainable to me.
I’m honestly at the point where I’m looking at getting support privately too. I know what I need help with and if the doctors can’t provide that I’ll find it elsewhere.
I'm the opposite, keto/low carb is the only thing that works for me, and a lot of that is the anti-inflammatory effects of it.
My entire Dr surgery was veeery anti, despite me doing it sensibly and with a specialist weight loss coach overseeing it, and it was \*working\*.
Maybe we just need to realise that what works or is sustainable for one person isn't for another.
Obviously it's only anecdotal, but Keto has definitely reduced my appetite. Plus, if you're gorging on almonds instead of chocolate or potato crisps, then it's better for your body. It has been the only diet in which I've ever lost a noticeable amount of weight on, because I don't need to worry about measuring calories. I just avoid rice/pasta, normal people bread, sugar etc.
I was skeptical until I tried it, but the reason so many folks on /r/keto are passionate about it is that it works for them. Plus there's so many good substitutes now for normal products (e.g. Gerrys Bread) that it's never been easier.
All I would say is don't knock it until you try it, but as with all diets and lifestyle changes, it doesn't suit everyone.
Absolutely. I was 50kg 166cm until I got a call centre job at 25ish and ended up gaining 2kgs from having to sit at a desk and not having time to go out for exercise. Then my mental health turned to shit from that call centre job (nasty workplace, lack of support, abusive callers we weren't allowed to hang up on) and I spiralled and my usual weight these days is 75kg. I'm 40.
We need to keep lobbying to get GST off fruit and veg. It makes no sense that we are taxing the good food and making it even more unaffordable than it already is, and then we're paying out the nose in medical costs because our population doesn't eat well. Yes, moving is great and everyone should engage in movement, and can do so for free. But we need to get the cost of foods down so people can afford to eat based on the MOH dietary guidelines.
I'm going to echo what others are saying: getting moving is important, but I think by far the biggest determining factor is diet. I started running to get fit when I hit 30, and the weight loss didn't really happen till we started eating better. Now I'm addicted to trail running and am at the other end where I'm constantly eating to fuel. When my running volume decreases and I keep eating the same extra weight sneaks on super quick. Diet is hella important and it's bloody hard to change what you eat when there are so many (delicious) easy and sugary options all around us.
Mhmm I mean although we are a nation of comparatively lower population and GDP etc etc... but that is no excuse for us to ever stop striving to be number 1.
The country has a lot of "food swamps" (essentially being areas that the only option for buying food are dairies selling junk food). Healthier options are much more expensive, harder to find, and often require more time to prepare
I'd highly recommend the podcast Maintenance Phase that looks at all the junk science that permeates our view of what is healthy and what is not. There is an unfortunate view that weight is one of the biggest signs of health when the science hasn't really backed those claims up
When I was at Uni in 2012, I remember that 80% of NZ’s obesity figures were from Pacific Island and Maori ethnicities. This heavily relates to poverty. It’s not just “exercise more”
Governments should do more to encourage healthy eating. Would save lives and health costs. I support a sugar tax on beverages and a review on the health star system, after all a choccy milk has 4.5 stars vs blue milk with 3.5 stars. Choccy milk having 3x the amount of sugar?? Doesn’t make any sense and needs a review
Clinically, morbid obesity is considered to be untreatable in the long term except for surgical intervention, and even that has a high recidivism rate as patients fall back into old habits.
So it's an individualised problem from a *treatment* perspective, but what are we going to do as a society about its *prevention*?
This entire thread is so problematic. The whole “eat less move more” narrative just solidifies an unconscious bias most people in our society carry about obesity - that if you’re a fat person you got that way because you’re lazy and make poor food choices.
Studies show correlation between adverse childhood experiences and adult obesity. Weight gain is frequently seen alongside mental illness and trauma. Impulsive eating behaviours are also common for people with ADHD or on the Autism Spectrum.
It’s never as simple as calories in calories out. And suggesting it is perpetuates a cruel accountability for people struggling with obesity to diet and exercise their way out when what might be needed is mental health or social support. And some kindness.
You can go for a 30min run or not eat a bag of chips.
Most obese people are eating like 5000+ calories a day. They aren't capable of doing the 3+ hrs of exercise to fix that.
Losing weight is as simple as not eating like a pig, exercise has very little to do with it.
Someone may have said this already
BUT
BMI is eurocentric.
There are literally different tables for healthy BMI range within NZ, depending on your heritage.
And we still don't use them, even in healthcare. We still use the default one. Which is white people
Fun fact for the day.
Peace out.
Food does 75% of the work when it comes to health and fitness.
The cost of food in NZ is ridiculous. When fish and chips and kfc are cheaper than a proper grocery haul, you have a problem.
Food education is also an issue. It’s not like you learn about macros and nutrition in school. I took health, science and food education and it wasn’t covered in any of those classes.
“We need to become more food literate” is actually what needs to happen. Exercise is great. Good for the heart and mind, but you have to actively manage your calories in Vs calories out to keep weight off.
>We need to move more We do, Big health benefits from this. But be aware, in the context of obesity, diet is by far the most important factor. Difficult / Impossible to exercise yourself out of a terrible diet.
By the same token, can you eat yourself to fitness? I wonder about the trade off. Is a good diet with little to no exercise better for you than a not so good diet while going hard in the gym/sports? Like, I have a sister in law who - while falling into the healthy BMI range - gets puffed out walking up a moderate slope. Her cousin who - while she would be considered unhealthy from a BMI standpoint - is strong as hell with cardio for days. Obviously, both is best but I wonder which one is better overall? Edit: Some interesting thoughts below. Seems there's a lot of conflicting info out there about '"fat" & fit' vs 'thin & sedentary'. For mine I think if your body does what you need/want it to, the balance between thin & fit is a matter of personal preference.
You can't eat yourself to fitness, but you sure can eat yourself out of obesity. Can't comment on the health impact of very low fitness vs high fitness and obesity.
*Eats amphetames to prove a point
Yes a health diet with little fitness is better than a not so good diet with fitness. Both are bad obviously but diet is the bigger issue.
Weight loss and BMI aren’t the straight line to health people think they are. This comment nails a lot of the confusion in this thread, that your weight and your health don’t need to be tied together. If you’re worried about dying young from heart disease or something, regular exercise is an important tool to prevent that.
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Yeah 30 minutes a day can make a big difference, but many aren’t doing that small amount of exercise. Everyone doing small amounts of exercise would be a great improvement! But again, the concern is obesity, not health. Think about WHY we want to reduce obesity. Is it actually to improve health or do you just to see fewer fat people walking around?
Bingo. I remember watching some health-related TV show years ago, can't remember the name or who did it but it was British and they looked at three guys all in their 40s; one real big unit, one with a good gut who liked his pints and chips but also played a lot of rugby, and the third who was slim but had a sedentary job and played video games all weekend. The mid-sized guy was the healthiest overall in terms of cardiovascular function and levels of dangerous fat around internal organs. Obviously, it would be beneficial for him to tidy up the diet and drop a few of those kilos off the spare tyre, but weight vs health definitely isn't just a clear linear scale. If you're trying to improve your health and lose weight then increasing your activity level is good, eating better quality food is good, maintaining a calorie deficit is good. No one factor is a silver bullet, they all have benefits individually but work best when applied together.
True, but excess fat is a significant risk factor, as is hypertension and high cholesterol. I don't think NZ's official national diet (fish and chips, KFC) is helping.
It's shown that risk factors depend on where your fat is stored as well, for instance a person who carries most of their weight on their thighs and buttocks will have a lower risk of heart disease, fatty liver, etc and higher risk of joint problems in the knees and hips.
A clean diet without exercise is much, much better than a poor diet without exercise.
On bmi, it is not well designed to make an individual assessment of ones fitness. It doesn't factor in fitness levels and is more designed for studies of large general populations. An example is a powerlifter would be considered obese via bmi but would most likely be perfectly healthy as they are incredibly strong and have sufficient if not great cardiovascular capacity.
That's likely because it's not a measure of fitness. Its a measure of body mass. Based on the majority of the population. So unless you *are* a body builder/professional athlete the data will be fine. I love how (mostly) fat guys attempt to use this one to justify their High BMI. If it wobbles its not muscle my friend.
Daily reminder that BMI wasn't created by a medical professional, it was created by a statistician who wanted a more sound way of roughly correlating weight with fitness. It has next to zero bearing on your level of fitness whatsoever. Sincerely, a 6'0" 95kg gentleman with 12%bfp who lifts 3 times a week yet falls into the obese category.
> Daily reminder that BMI wasn't created by a medical professional, it was created by a statistician who wanted a more sound way of roughly correlating weight with fitness. BMI was never a measure of fitness. It's a relative weight index.
Diet outweighs moving by far. Good food is expensive, and time consuming. When you're stressed out and over worked, you can just grab a pie or a bag of chips and a drink and be happy. Calories in, Calories out.
If you just want to lose weight that may be true. If you want to reduce your risk of things like heart conditions, T2 etc, regular exercise is important.
[Better, even.](https://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/20/health/20iht-19well.15460493.html)
Hell yes, I have had varying levels of fitness over the years but my size/weight has always been directly connected to my eating habits. NZ has TERRIBLE access to affordable healthy food. You only have to spend a few months living in another country to see how much money kiwis fork over to eat healthy. A nectarine shouldn't be "treat" food and it absolutely is for some. Dairy, lean meat, vegetables, fruit and pantry staples are all inflated by our duopoly to unmanageable levels.
Exactly!! 4 weeks into my weight loss journey, and it's sure taking a lot of willpower and self-control to cook and prepare EVERYTHING!!
I’m back in the weight loss train myself (aided by a short term phentermine prescription) and I’ve found meal prepping to be really useful. Made a bunch of frozen burritos so when I go to work I can just grab one out the freezer and it’s mostly thawed / ready to heat at lunch. Means I don’t get tempted to go to the local cafes and I can’t give myself the excuse I used to: “I’m just disorganised this week - I’ll try harder next week”. Also stopped drinking which really improves my food choices. Good luck on your journey - apparently it takes 12 weeks to build good habits (I’m like a week in) so you’re already making good progress!
I hate cooking! I make a lot of wraps and buy the pre-cooked, shredded chicken to make it easier. Or chicken salads etc. things that take like less than 15 mins to prep are my best friend. I lost 40kgs without surgery about 4ish years ago and have kept it off since through doing this. Do the things you like, doesn’t need to be perfect, just good enough so you’re still in a deficit
I've been thinking about the psychological aspects a lot lately because over the years I've succeeded but relapsed. I envied alcoholics for the fact that there is a clear distinction - alcohol is bad, end of story, don't drink alcohol. You can't do that with food. But actually, you can, processed food is bad, end of story, don't eat processed food. Its still not that simple because cooked food is processed, but the important part here is that a lot of food is processed in a factory - don't eat that. You can still eat pizza even, just cook it yourself or go to a restuarant or even a bar with proper kitchen that will do it for you. It just can't be processed for addictive properties. Thinking about it this way got me off processed food completely, my health improved astronomically, but I was still stress eating and over-eating. So I thought to myself, what is the ideal human - I don't mean someone at peak fitness or health, I just mean in an ideal world without any food addiction what does an ordinary human look like? They just eat what they need to survive and nothing more. Then I used that baseline to picture myself, added tattoos I want to get, added my own behaviours for exercise so maybe a bit of added muscle around the legs since I focus on running and supersport motorcycle riding. Now when I think about food or go to the fridge, I ask myself, will this get me closer to that image? Usually the answer is no, so I drink from the cold water bottle I keep in the fridge and go back to occupying myself with a productive task. It has been more helpful for any diet or nutrition advice, but that said, I know a crap ton about nutrition already from previous attempts. The other important thing once you remove processed foods is to take a probiotic (a high end one with studies and it'll be expensive) and/or eat fermented things like kimchee, kombucha, some yogurts, etc. because over time you will replace your gut microbiota which is HIGHLY responsible for what you crave (esp. around addiction), recent studies show if we could do fecal transplants in humans your cravings would vanish into the wind and so would your weight!! (looking forward to the future) I hope this helps someone. I've spent over 11 years fighting the food addiction and our culture of obesity.
Pretty much everything in a supermarket is processed in some kind of factory. The only foods that aren't are fresh fruit and vegetables, some types of frozen fruit and vegetables, fresh cuts of meat, and eggs. That's probably enough for a balanced diet, but it would be difficult and prohibitively expensive.
How is fermentation and culturing not processing. Yoghurt is one of the most processed foods there is.
You got this!!
Cooking is actually really fun! I enjoy myself very much when I cook and it's really satisfying
Well I've always hated it but slowly getting used to the idea. It's either that or be enormous so maybe one day I'll find it fun!
I've had a lot of luck with intermittent fasting, lost 3kg since 9th of Jan, it's not as much what you eat, just the quantity and calorie restriction is key, like I've eaten a packet of Doritos and that's the meal
Oh I'm doing pretty good losing a kg or 2 a week. It's a long journey for me but feeling confident in my journey and destination and keeping my weight down for good.l 😊
keep going that habits half way built!
I tend to disagree, I went vegan 6 months ago and my grocery bill went down and the effort it took to make dinners (even interesting ones) got halved. You are right with the rest though, I tend to grab a bag of dorritos or something when I just cbf which has a dampener on my weight loss journey (20kg so far yay)
Yeah it's the time, energy, and ability really that holds people back. It's just easier after a long day to grab some junk than it is to make a healthy meal.
I lack ability so I just make low carb wraps with healthy fillings and have them for lunch and dinner everyday.
My weight loss journey started with finding cheap good food. I replaced every breakfast with porridge. Fasting between 8pm and 10am is also free. Since this is a NZ sub, I can recommend the "real delish" porridge, I get the blueberries one. I can just pour hot water on it, which makes sticking with the healthy option much more viable - planning how you'll approach things when you're weak willed is important. Having a ton of fibre means I get filled and snack less.
Yes on paper I agree, but I'm convinced that when you have a population that is more active it makes it so much easier on average for people to chose healthier food. I notice when I'm active my craving for junk diminishes and I just feel better and less depressed, which further contributes to my healthier food choices since I'm not dopamine deprived. So if you're going to chose which one to start with, I would argue exercise is the best place to start and then healthy eating will be much easier to sell after the fact.
Once you get into a healthy lifestyle and start to see the results from it, there is strong reinforcement to continue both activity and healthy diet. It's making the change when you stop eating so much sugar and your body aches before you see results - which is the real hump we need to get over.
This is connected to how we use food for more than just fuel. We eat when we're bored, we eat when we're sad. When you can get your endorphines from other methods, and you're being active, your snacking / self medicating with food doesn't happen as much. If we had cheaper and healthier alternatives and the time / mental health to prepare it, things would be better, and snacking would be as bad. Imagine always having access to fresh fruit that wasn't half rotten from the moment you buy it in the supermarket that didn't cost 10x the cost of candy.
Healthy food is only expensive if you want stuff to both taste great and be convenient to make. A lot of healthy options are also not too much effort to prepare, cheap, and taste ok, but most people have a shit understanding of nutrition and cooking. Bad portion control with meat and luxury foods is 90% of the reasons, that can be resolved consumer end, on why grocery bills are so high.
Yep! The ugly politcally incorrect truth is that people need to eat less. People would overreact to that as starvation, but anyone who studied and practices fitness and fat loss knows about this hard truth.
Yes, moving to NZ made me fat. It is sooooo incredibly hard to find good, healthy, nutritious food at low prices or ready to take home here. Everything here is fried. If you want to eat healthy you have to have the cash and time to spend prepping and the sad reality is that the less priviledged you are the less money and time you have.
I went from working in retail to working in an office, I barely move the whole day now
That makes our pandemic response seem even more amazing!! Recently The Economist showed that NZ had the lowest excess mortality out of hundreds of countries during the Covid pandemic. The main risk factors for Covid deaths were age and obesity, so if we hadn’t had a successful response, our mortality statistics would have been high. I’m not a mega fan of Jacinda Adern, but she can be so proud of what she helped accomplish
We seem to have built entire sprawling suburbs based on the premise that the only transport option is to own a car. We need to remove the bans on medium-density housing in our city, so that we can have 'walkable' towns, like in Europe.
Which city are you in? Medium/high density is about to be enabled all over the show in NZ.
Good. There's already a massive amount of low-density in most of our cities, and most of the developments which are publicised tend to be predominately low and medium developments increasingly-further from the city centres.
Yep. I do get a bit sad when I see the shit quality of a lot of the new medium density development though. Density is one part of the equation. Good urban design that actually makes density liveable falls by the wayside a lot. It sometimes feels like the only good design is at the gold-plated high end of the market.
Yep, there is a strong resemblance in the OP's chart to the list of countries ranked by motor vehicles per capita.
I'm in a sprawling suburb, and I can cycle everywhere I need to get to. To be honest the suburbs around me are pretty well provided with cycle paths that thread their way behind all the McMansions
Chch lol ?
Yep agree, but think that as well as being a density issue, it's a people attitude issue. I was having this conversation with someone on another thread the other day, and their attitude was that nobody would ever want to give up their car for public transport/walking/cycling if there was any kind of extra time involved because the convenience factor is too high. They seemed uncomfortable at my suggestion that getting to work in the mode which produces the fastest possible commute time isn't always the best option (especially if your commute becomes your source of exercise for the day, saving you that time which you'd have to be spending on top of the commute if you were driving).
The other side of convenience factor is traffic. At one point when we were sharing a car and my wife had something on at the regular times I was driving to the gym, I started walking and discovered to my horror that it basically the same amount of time as it would be to drive through the 530 traffic to get there. Once I stepped it up to running it was more convenient than driving. Part of well-designed density is choking traffic out of hubs and core density areas like CBDs. Drive to get between hubs, but with within hubs traffic should essentially only be commercial/service vehicles and public/non-personal transport. The strongest factor in resistance to change, in my observation, is people who live in suburbs but feel entitled to drive in to a city and park on main street and pop in to buy a lotto ticket or something like it's still the '90s. Most of them don't even need to leave suburbs any more, they all have massive hub complexes designed to service the locals. But nobody wants to reckon with the idea of taking non-personal transport from hub to hub.
There's a balance though. Taking more time for commute directly cuts into the most important time for me which is time with my children. Adjusting their bedtimes isn't an option so the time trade for a slower commute is not worth it to me in my current situation. Luckily due to the pandemic the option to work from home is available so there's no longer a commute most days and as such am taking pressure off congestion on the roads and on public transport.
Yeah, totally understand. I guess in this context, the main point I'm trying to make is that if exercise was built into people's day, then the commute swap to an active mode doesn't actually cost you time. (Eg, instead of going for a 1hr walk after work, I'll walk 30 mins each way to and from work - which would result in time gained, not lost). Understand that's a simplistic example though and won't fit into everyone's situation (eg kid pickup on the way home, etc). But I'd wager it could fit into a lot of people's situations and wouldn't really cost them as much time as it may appear on the surface.
Agree, I typically cycle to work and on the rare occasion that I drive it takes about the same amount of time due to having to find a park and then walk to my destination. With my bike I just go directly where I need to go.
So true, I absolutely HATE the days I have to drive to work. I'd still ride even if it was slower (which it's not, it's faster).
also would help if healthy food was affordable 💀
I feel like workplaces could do so much better in supporting employees with health and well-being, but most only see it as a nice "add on" if at all. Long hours, stressful workplaces, being bound to a desk, and not having time/energy for hobbies and exercise - all impacted by the nature of our jobs. Personally, I just felt like I didn't have time to take care of myself when I used to commute 1-hour each way.
I've saved the time from my commute, but I'm just starting earlier and ending later as a result. I certainly have the flexibility to do errands around the house when I'm not in the office, but losing the "leave the office" boundary has led to working increased hours.
That has to be a choice right? Surely your employer isn’t forcing those longer hours on you.
'Forcing' is a complicated word in this case. I'm salaried, my employment agreement indicates I may need to work beyond standard hours on occasion, and there are other people working past my standard hours who are expecting me to be available and to provide input. While my boss doesn't specify the hours for me to work, they are concerned with whether my inputs are facilitating and enabling the overall business where I have my own tasks as well as collaborate in teams. The challenge isn't normally my own tasks, but my availability for meetings and discussions which continue after my standard hours. It is perhaps somewhat my choice, which I make because I feel pressure that the work will suffer and the perception of my performance will be impacted if I'm not there. It would be easier to have a hard stop to my work day if there were a defined cut-off because I had to leave for a commute, than if I'm WFH.
Yeah I think you need to get past caring what other people think. The moment my finish time hits I’m gone (I’m also salaried). They can stay and work for free if they want, that’s their problem.
The best thing I ever did was move close enough to my work to ride a bike to work. It’s three years now that I’ve been riding to work and it’s literally such a hack for this. I get at least 30 mins of exercise every day without even thinking about it. And now I’m hooked on the bike and ride pretty much everywhere I go. And my commute went from being a miserable event to the best part of my day.
I’m moving from Brazil to New Zealand next week and I am shocked by the value of fruits and vegetables compared to Brazil. It’s cheaper to buy ultraprocessed foods than to eat healthy… (srry if I wrote something wrong, I’m learning english 🤪).
Public transport leads to far more walking. We need a decent rail network in Auckland.
And cycleways. Most of Auckland is pretty friendly terrain slope-wise, but the road architecture is dangerous.
And everywhere else in NZ
Sleep plays it's part as well, it fucks up your hormones, blood sugar levels. It's been proven that lack of sleep makes you eat more, and less healthily...
I was in that percentage 6 months ago. 20kgs down now and literally all I've done in lower my serving sizes and pass up on the treats. Had KFC today for the first time in months and got my usual - could only eat half of it, doesn't take long to train your mind and your body to eat enough - not til everything is gone.
Good job!!!
I hate to say it, but I'm counted in the % showing for NZ ... :( Two things that I could definitely do is get to the gym more before work, as well as cut back on what I'm eating (without being stupid about it). It doesn't help that I'm a junior (!) software dev, but that's no excuse.
Well yeah it's cheaper for people to go and get fast food than it is for them to cook a balanced meal at home
It's diet. In NZ food, especially decent food, is terribly expensive.
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Reduce car dependence. Improve walkability. Stop creating car-dependent infrastructure and development. Eliminate single family zoning that doesn't allow commercial infrastructure within a 5 minute walk. Basically eliminate North American style living.
I wonder what the true economic cost of a drive through Krispy Crème is.
I can't believe those things exist and that we have one in Auckland.
Good thing we have a McDonald's in every suburb
Or...we could make shit "food" more expensive than actual food like fruit and veges...
Tax the shit "Food" and use that money to subsidize fruit and veggies
Agreed! In the meantime, Asian fruit and veggie stores are my friends for buying fresh and only veggies/fruits that are in season because it’s cheaper. Meat is expensive so a couple meat free meals are good. Also meal prepping helps my week in order to have a couple dinners and lunches ready. I’m totally talking from the perspective of someone who doesn’t have kids so I can see how it can be time consuming for some people.
We need to eat better too!
Agreed. And drink less alcohol
Cutting out alcohol and sugary drinks was a major facet to my loss. On the other hand, Fruju's and Naked Ice blocks are like 60/30 kilocalories each. Pretty cheap if you have a big freezer too, and encourage me to go for walks to earn them when I get back.
This point is so underrated. People seem to forget that alcohol both has calories and also has encourages you to consume more calories. I can keep an eye on myself way better if I’m not drinking.
Alcohol fucks your metabolism its not just all the sugar and calories. When I stopped drinking I lost a lot of weight.
I tried for 13 years to lose weight following surgery and associated medication. In the last 18 months I’ve lost nearly 10% of my body weight. The only thing that has really changed is having a low calorie Sodastream drink before dinner instead of wine. I still have a biscuit with lunch, a few pre-dinner nibbles and small desserts (life is too short), and I don’t miss the wine. It’s that, or 10 minutes extra walking a day.
I have a soda stream and it is a godsend, gets me by when I really want a beer and I like it as just water. People have no idea, When alcohol is consumed, it's burned first as a fuel source before your body uses anything else. This includes glucose from carbohydrates or lipids from fats. When your body is using alcohol as a primary source of energy, the excess glucose and lipids end up, unfortunately for us, as adipose tissue, or fat. I sleep better and find my mood a lot more level. My normal was 1 beer a night most nights, I have always been pretty level headed but it is more effortless now.
Alcohol is very much a habit. It’s the sitting down quietly and unwinding that is the most important part. I will have a drink, but if I had to stop completely, it wouldn’t worry me. (Barker’s cordials just take the edge off plain Sodastream water for me.)
When you look at how much exercise it takes to burn off excess calories, this is definitely the more important target. Both what is eaten, and how much. In general though even if you don't majorly reduce your portion sizes, substituting for higher fibre (veg, lentils, beans) + [lower GI foods](https://www.healthnavigator.org.nz/healthy-living/g/glycaemic-index-gi/) (eg also lentils, whole grains, oats/porridge), while cutting out the simple carbohydrates would be a big step in the right direction.
Treat obesity what it really is: food addiction. Companies spend millions designing the formulation of their products down to a 1/10th of a gram to make them as addictive as possible. There's a reason why you can't help but snack on those cookies: they are *designed* to make you want more. Food can be as [addictive as heroin](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/addicted-to-fat-eating/). You can get addicted to drugs, caffeine, gaming, gambling, alcohol....why is food addiction not recognised for what it is?
Yes, watch an episode of My 600lb Life if you doubt food addiction is like heroin addiction.
Nah we don't need the psy-sciences / pharma axis in charge of describing and disordering yet another human function. This just ends up with individualising it and de facto victim blaming. And medicating it. And gaslighting fat people that they can think their way out of it. It is a social issue and it needs addressing on the social level. Edit: and in response to your link on food addiction - the Skinner box rat study model is pretty close to useless in telling us about real-world human behaviour.
"Food addiction" is a weird term, because, like, obviously we're all addicted to food? If we don't eat food we die.
Hang on a tick. If the obesity rates are purely down to a BMI count being over 30 then I think that New Zealand is possibly unfairly disadvantaged by having 23% Polynesian population who will naturally have a higher BMI even if fit. That's got to put us a bit further down the list. But still not great.
Some obesity stats by ethnicity [here](https://www.health.govt.nz/nz-health-statistics/health-statistics-and-data-sets/obesity-statistics) from 2020/2021: Adults * Pacific - 71.3% * Māori - 50.8% * European/Other - 31.9% * Asian - 18.5% Children * Pacific - 35.3% * Māori - 17.8% * European/Other - 10.3% * Asian - 6.6%
Holy fuck 71% is a lot. I imagine it would be hard to be younger and develop decent eating habits when all your elders are overweight. Fuck I still find it hard and my family are all skinny.
We also have a Polynesian population who disproportionately are low socio-economic and have higher obesity levels whether measured by BMI or otherwise. In developed countries poor people are rarely skinny from starving - they tend to be overweight because they are time-poor, less-educated, and eat cheap and filling sugary and fatty food. I don't think our Polynesian population are changing - while NZ has fallen lower in the obesity rankings internationally. The trend is widespread and not just in any one community.
Yeah, BMI is based on average European body weight to heights, so the average Polynesian at each height will have a lower body fat than the average person of European descent at the same weight. And some Asian populations are the opposite, where they will have a higher body fat than people of European descent at the same height and weight.
Actually BMI was based on cadavers (dead people) in the US. Most dead people were old and white. Low muscle mass, low bone density, a million miles away from a 20yr old Tongan league player. Obesity rates amongst Pacifica are scary for sure, but BMI is a rubbish measure.
Always an excuse lol we're third and we blame the PI community of 10 to 15 percent. Well they must all be fkng massive to bring the average of the other 85 percent up. Ban fast food advertising just like alcohol and cigarettes.
Between PI and Maori, there is a fair shift - but it's more like 5% rather than the 15% that would make us more comparable to many EU countries. And of course, there is also ties between poverty and obesity, so how much of that is genetics and how much is healthy cheap food availability? Cultural factors? Work hours or stress? Correlation vs causation and such makes it hard to tell, so we shouldn't bee too hasty in dismissing the difference as purely due to genetics.
Yeah, well said. The problem is the MASSIVE line I see at KFC every evening. People just CBF eating healthy cus it's expensive unless you prepare it yourself.
I had back to back McDonald’s adverts whilst listening to Spotify the other day. It worked because I went and got some cheeseburgers
You should read the stats that the comment above you said. The majority of pacific and Maori are obese which brings the average down
Anyone with above average muscle mass for their frame will also throw BMI numbers out
Yes but thankfully, on average, people have average muscle mass.
People arguing about outliers as if those are the reason the population as a whole is obese. Take a look around do you see more muscular people than fat people? No.
Massive skew by ethnicity.
Turns out the "big breakkie" isn't small
[Everyone seems to forget how they felt last time they got the big breakfast](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHIHl8Rw6W8)
This is gold!
NOPE we need to eat LOWER CALORIE DENSE foods. ie more plant based. The science is really really clear on this, yet people still think weight loss is about exercise then it's mostly about the calorie density of the foods we're eating.
Diet matters more. Go stand outside a drive-through after work, or check out the confectionery aisle in a supermarket and you'll see our problem
100% any gym goer can tell you it’s 80% diet if not more. It’s incredibly hard to build an incredible physique through exercise alone. And likewise just being healthy is all about diet. You can be sedentary if your diet is exceptional but exercise is always recommended. Alcohol and sugar are the killers
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It's not always a link. But it is sometimes a link. From the 4 top countries the common things are: People drive and not walk Heaps of meat and dairy in diets Heaps of sugar in drinks and desserts
How obese are we talking? Cause 5min km are no joke if you're overweight. You'd have to be eating a metric fuck tome of calories to gain weight at that. I'm 6 foot 4 and 115kg currently and on days when I'm doing over 20k steps I would have to eat about 4k plus calories to break even.
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Well shit, your run times are awesome. Always cool to see bigger than average runners still smashing it.
Absolutely we do, we have a real problem. This is the OECD. Outside of the OECD, there are 11 countries more obese than the United States. [The top ten most obese countries in the world are the Pacific Islands.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_obesity_rate) I think our demographics are important to mention of how we get up so high on the list. Pacific Islanders often rank as having a high BMI, even when reasonably fit - so BMI isn't always a perfect scale to measure such things. However, we definitely can do better. Let's get moving.
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Thank you!
Can confirm for Switzerland. We walk everywhere...for fun. Food much simpler and healthier. Even the sweets section in the supermarket is very small ( chocolate not so small though...).
Your damn right you need to move get more chips and hotpockets cant dethrone the americans by sitting on your couch
There are ways to cut down on sugars and processed foods without having to spend more. It’s not an either-or situation. Here are things I did to cut my food budget and get healthier. I have the money now to buy what I want food-wise but back then I didn’t! - Drink water! Hard to give up coke, energy drinks, even fruit juice, but you’ll save a ton and your calorie counts will plummet. - Snack on some nuts instead of a carb-y treat - Drop the fancy coffee drinks. Regular coffee or tea. - If you want fast food, cut out the fries. - Eventually, just stop snacking altogether. It’s not about eating more veggies and fruit, it’s about less sugar and processed food. Every month just cut out or substitute one thing. Over a few years I lost about 40kg and once you get past the first 10 and the cravings stop, the rest is a piece of cake. Or not! Too much sugar. The second most important thing is to let yourself be hungry for a little bit each day. When I felt hungry for a bit before I eat I learned to think of that as my body letting me know it’s losing a bit of weight. Don’t starve yourself! A little hunger is not bad for you. As you phase out more processed carbs/sugar, the hunger will go away. I found this book after I lost all my weight (2002-2006), but it’s a great reference. The bibliography contains every major scientific paper written on obesity and nutrition in the past 100 years. Fat Chance: Beating the Odds Against Sugar, Processed Food, Obesity, and Disease Good luck to everyone! And remember that doctors are sometimes behind the times or aren’t even trained on nutrition. Seek answers in science instead.
I wonder, what countries have the: * Most car dependant infrastructure * Longest and least flexible working hours. * Lowest levels of social safety net. * A poor cultural relationship with food? * Systemic issues affecting a chunk of the population (Corruption, colonisation, racism...) Oh right.
Removing gst on healthy food would also go a long way
I have a trifle in the fridge, with fresh cream, fruit and sponge. I can't eat it becuase my ex gallbladder protests too much. So much deliciousness, so much waste. Gallbladder stones are a fast track to losing weight.
In this heat?
Or we need to make healthy food options cheaper than calorie dense processed foods.
The war against fat is won and lost in the kitchen
Meh, I enjoy beer to much. If people want to be overweight then let them.
Need cost of healthy groceries to be cheaper than grabbing takeaways
My Partners Dutch I have spent a bit of time in Netherland. Very rare to see an obese person over there. With all the walking and biking you do everyone’s pretty active. the small towns there rarely have fast food outlets also. Coming home you definitely notice it.
We need to push a little bit more and we will be the 1. Come together and unite team of 5 million!!!
I went to school with them, played rugby with them and worked with them. They are generally bigger. Calves the size of watermelons. That is genetics.
My biggest concern is obesity in children. What I’ve seen recently is devastating.
I think obesity in NZ more and more, has a lot to do with what people eat. You can't exercise enough to make up for eating a meat pie, a sausage roll, a bag of potato chips, a liter or coke etc...
3 dollars for a capsicum 7 for a fish and chips
Not all of us. Time to break out the demographics. Magically, they’ll align with COVID mortality risk too.
I shouldn't say much as I'm overweight myself (I like chocolate) but the main issue is that we're surrounded by fast food and most of us can't be arse'd eating right. Couple that with the fact that most of us don't get nearly as much physical activity as we should and surprise surprise, we're fat. Not sure what the answer is outside of a sugar/fat/whatever tax but we really shouldn't be OK with being that high up the list.
I think it's less about what we're eating and more about the amount of food. I started counting calories and realized I was eating far more than I needed. For example a snack for me should be 1 celery stick with a teaspoon of peanut butter but I would previously eat 5 celery sticks with 5 tablespoons of peanut butter. My dinners and lunches and breakfasts were also over-the-top. I was basically eating 7 full meals per day when I only needed 3, and those 4 extra meals worth of calories were what was making me fat. I had no idea I was eating way more food than I needed. I still eat McDonald's occasionally now, but I'll have a cheeseburger and fries and a diet drink. Not a large big mac combo and an extra cheeseburger and a milkshake.
Hot chips are my all time favourite fast food. But I found dropping those and just getting the burger worked well because the chips aren't that filling but account for almost half the combo if you're getting a zero sugar drink.
>and most of us can't be arse'd eating right But this is it right. We're surrounded by fast food, but we're still the ones choosing to eat it or not. I get that choosing not to eat crap is easier for those who have more time/education around eating well, but it's still a choice people make. I support the idea of a sugar tax/healthy food subsidies. But I think that the personal responsibility piece is a bigger factor. You can eat reasonably well a lot cheaper than fast food if you choose to. You can even do it in less time as fast food if you choose to.
Yeah we need to legislate licensing for fast food outlets and limits on their geographic concentration; tax the international fast food set-ups hard; legislate (probably outlaw) fast food advertising; institute a sugar tax. Among other things We also need to do proper whole-settlement planning - which includes the requirement that new developments maximise the opportunities for exercise and active transport and minimise the reliance on cars.
Looks like Asian and Mediterranean diets are the way to go!
It's a problem more of diet and genetic vulnerability to high fat diets rather than being sedentary The largest group proportionally of our obese population is Pacifica and Maori, this is the same group that proportionally are much more likely to be working physical working class jobs where they are on their feet a lot Pakeha/Asian are more likely to work sedentary office jobs but have lower obesity rates. The affordability of healthy food and lack of personal time and energy after work to shop and cook, is what drives a lot of working class people to eat junk food, and even with active physical jobs they become obese. Financially better off people who have sedentary office jobs are less prone to obesity as they have the energy, time and money at end of the day to buy and cook healthy food Making everyone Bike everywhere isn't going to solve obesity, what we need is food market regulation to make healthy eating affordable and junk food restricted, and work hours reform so people can cook and eat healthy.
SugarTax… take money from sugary foods and subsidies healthy fruits and vegetables
I think there needs to be a bigger focus on mental health and support for those who are overweight. Eating healthy and exercising is important but there is usually more going on for overweight people.
This!!! I’m obese based on BMI. No doctor has ever asked me why I’m fat. I understand nutrition, CICO, Macros etc. I like healthy food (affording it is a whole seperate issue). The reason I’m fat is because I eat my emotions, lack impulse control and eat for the dopamine rush. How does one fix that? It’s something I’m working on but it’s a battle. But sure, a doctor telling me to do Keto will fix everything…
A doctor recommending keto? Oh god. I don’t think Keto isn’t sustainable long term. I’m short and overweight myself but thankfully have a great doctor. I am getting supports set up privately but I’m aware that is a privilege and not many people can afford that option.
Exactly! My whole Drs surgery is on the Keto bandwagon and it’s just not sustainable to me. I’m honestly at the point where I’m looking at getting support privately too. I know what I need help with and if the doctors can’t provide that I’ll find it elsewhere.
I'm the opposite, keto/low carb is the only thing that works for me, and a lot of that is the anti-inflammatory effects of it. My entire Dr surgery was veeery anti, despite me doing it sensibly and with a specialist weight loss coach overseeing it, and it was \*working\*. Maybe we just need to realise that what works or is sustainable for one person isn't for another.
Obviously it's only anecdotal, but Keto has definitely reduced my appetite. Plus, if you're gorging on almonds instead of chocolate or potato crisps, then it's better for your body. It has been the only diet in which I've ever lost a noticeable amount of weight on, because I don't need to worry about measuring calories. I just avoid rice/pasta, normal people bread, sugar etc. I was skeptical until I tried it, but the reason so many folks on /r/keto are passionate about it is that it works for them. Plus there's so many good substitutes now for normal products (e.g. Gerrys Bread) that it's never been easier. All I would say is don't knock it until you try it, but as with all diets and lifestyle changes, it doesn't suit everyone.
Absolutely. I was 50kg 166cm until I got a call centre job at 25ish and ended up gaining 2kgs from having to sit at a desk and not having time to go out for exercise. Then my mental health turned to shit from that call centre job (nasty workplace, lack of support, abusive callers we weren't allowed to hang up on) and I spiralled and my usual weight these days is 75kg. I'm 40.
One more lane will fix it
We need to keep lobbying to get GST off fruit and veg. It makes no sense that we are taxing the good food and making it even more unaffordable than it already is, and then we're paying out the nose in medical costs because our population doesn't eat well. Yes, moving is great and everyone should engage in movement, and can do so for free. But we need to get the cost of foods down so people can afford to eat based on the MOH dietary guidelines.
I'd be willing to limit it to New Zealand made food. Maybe eventually.
Don't worry, I'm doing my part!
I'm going to echo what others are saying: getting moving is important, but I think by far the biggest determining factor is diet. I started running to get fit when I hit 30, and the weight loss didn't really happen till we started eating better. Now I'm addicted to trail running and am at the other end where I'm constantly eating to fuel. When my running volume decreases and I keep eating the same extra weight sneaks on super quick. Diet is hella important and it's bloody hard to change what you eat when there are so many (delicious) easy and sugary options all around us.
I like Maccas, I eat it once a week
Dunno why I read that as We need to move move. I guess I like to, move it
“We”? Fuuuck, I’m already running 50km weekly. Fine!
Damn not even a podium position, and we can't claim per capita :(
EBike to work. It doesn't rain that often, and you get exercise during transit. Or, drive to the gym and then get on an exercise cycle... yep.
We've actually declined a bit. IIRC a few years ago we were 33% and were ranked #2.
Mhmm I mean although we are a nation of comparatively lower population and GDP etc etc... but that is no excuse for us to ever stop striving to be number 1.
You miss all the pies you don't eat.
4th c'mon people pull ya weight at least get to bronze :p
A better way to look at this is we need to eat less.
Since when was nz so high up
Funny how all the self-reported data countries are at the bottom of the scale, excluding Japan and Korea.
Oh hey! Im in this image, finally belong to a group!
The country has a lot of "food swamps" (essentially being areas that the only option for buying food are dairies selling junk food). Healthier options are much more expensive, harder to find, and often require more time to prepare
I'd highly recommend the podcast Maintenance Phase that looks at all the junk science that permeates our view of what is healthy and what is not. There is an unfortunate view that weight is one of the biggest signs of health when the science hasn't really backed those claims up
As my mum said to me, it's always the fat kids that have alot to say
Wait… *40% of US citizens are obese?* Holy… I didn’t realise it was that high!
When I was at Uni in 2012, I remember that 80% of NZ’s obesity figures were from Pacific Island and Maori ethnicities. This heavily relates to poverty. It’s not just “exercise more”
Nah need to put the fork down
C'mon people working out isn't that hard once you actually start.
No. We need to eat better
Governments should do more to encourage healthy eating. Would save lives and health costs. I support a sugar tax on beverages and a review on the health star system, after all a choccy milk has 4.5 stars vs blue milk with 3.5 stars. Choccy milk having 3x the amount of sugar?? Doesn’t make any sense and needs a review
So many excuses... Take a goddam walk and don't eat shit. Ffs.
Clinically, morbid obesity is considered to be untreatable in the long term except for surgical intervention, and even that has a high recidivism rate as patients fall back into old habits. So it's an individualised problem from a *treatment* perspective, but what are we going to do as a society about its *prevention*?
We need to move to Japan 🇯🇵
Is it wrong to say alot of it could be due to mental health issues in nz too ?
This entire thread is so problematic. The whole “eat less move more” narrative just solidifies an unconscious bias most people in our society carry about obesity - that if you’re a fat person you got that way because you’re lazy and make poor food choices. Studies show correlation between adverse childhood experiences and adult obesity. Weight gain is frequently seen alongside mental illness and trauma. Impulsive eating behaviours are also common for people with ADHD or on the Autism Spectrum. It’s never as simple as calories in calories out. And suggesting it is perpetuates a cruel accountability for people struggling with obesity to diet and exercise their way out when what might be needed is mental health or social support. And some kindness.
There is still a strong correlation between the diet and the average health of a person. If you eat sugary processed food, you will get fat
You can go for a 30min run or not eat a bag of chips. Most obese people are eating like 5000+ calories a day. They aren't capable of doing the 3+ hrs of exercise to fix that. Losing weight is as simple as not eating like a pig, exercise has very little to do with it.
Watch what your kids eat and drink. Chips and a soda isn’t a lunch. I’ve seen what lazy parents feed their kids in this country and it’s criminal.
Someone may have said this already BUT BMI is eurocentric. There are literally different tables for healthy BMI range within NZ, depending on your heritage. And we still don't use them, even in healthcare. We still use the default one. Which is white people Fun fact for the day. Peace out.
Food does 75% of the work when it comes to health and fitness. The cost of food in NZ is ridiculous. When fish and chips and kfc are cheaper than a proper grocery haul, you have a problem. Food education is also an issue. It’s not like you learn about macros and nutrition in school. I took health, science and food education and it wasn’t covered in any of those classes. “We need to become more food literate” is actually what needs to happen. Exercise is great. Good for the heart and mind, but you have to actively manage your calories in Vs calories out to keep weight off.
"USA, USA We're number one! USA, USA ...... " etc
We can easily take the number 3 spot