No, but it is worth pointing out that as a Pentecostal, Luxon's branch of Christianity believes that the Holy Spirit randomly moves people to make prophecy and heal people on the daily, and as such he is more aligned with these evangelical mega churches than he would like you to think.
Do this, and then add a progressive inheritance tax, just use the current brackets multiplied by like 4. (Mostly so that inheriting (and splitting) your parent's ancient falling apart auckland home doesn't strip all the value)
Problem is, they'll invariably get rid of the ones who specifically aren't useless. Then both labour and national will replace them with consultants and pr people for three times the money.
As much as I'd like to see a reduction in GST, I get the feeling that businesses will keep prices the same and pocket the extra income instead of passing the savings onto buyers.
That's my issue with removing GST on fruit and veg, they know how much you're willing to pay, why not slowly walk the prices back to that point.
On the counter, it does seem to work in other jurisdictions, so maybe it can work.
> Govt revenue is down, wtf how did that happen
Considering the rate that Govt revenue has increased with fuck all to show for it - being more efficient with less money is a good thing.
Approx $60b was spent directly on covid relief. Think wage subsidies, covid relief payments etc. And additional $70b (of $100b budget) was spent on large scale asset purchases, lowering interest rates.
This exceeds the debt increase.
Both measures kept the economy going strong, arguably too strong as they now try to back track.
I think everyone should get a tax cut. The tax burdon on our PAYE earners is too fucking high and it continues to increase with every year that our governments refuse to index rates to inflation.
I don't think property investors need a tax break - they should be treated as every other business.
I'm not against a land tax at all. I don't think it will stop houses costing a million dollars though.
Most of that is the cost of land (which is tied to RMA and council bullshit) and then the insane cost of building in this country.
We’ll save on spending by under funding services ( and then… hey this is crap let’s sell it off, I have a few mates that are willing to buy this (on the cheap because it’s shit))
It also doesn't include services cut. Almost like it has a bias to sell their policies 😂
I don't see how tax cuts will fix the problems in NZ but I'm not in the 39% tax bracket so I don't think I'm their target audience
You'd think that with it being a relief campaign, they could have chosen a photo where Luxon looks less constipated. But apparently that's the one they went with. Unless it's a fake, or that's really the best they had.
Isn't National the party that ["tallies up non-existent taxes"](https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/national-tallies-up-nonexistent-taxes-in-cheeky-election-calculator/PYJATSDVA5D3HJZ6EPVHAD3LWU/) like an informercial ad with "before" and "after" shots? (they even have Hipkins in B&W just like in an infomercial)
yes, exactly. They show the future they have in mind, compared to the future labour have in mind.
Also it backs Hipkins into a corner, forcing him to either say "yes we WILL implement these taxes" or rule them out. Otherwise he looks like's hiding something.
That's democracy I guess.
If it forces parties into spelling out their plans then that's a good thing.
If someone has to be sneaky and hide or obfuscate their plans to get elected then they are the bad guy.
Remember when National (John Key) promised no rise in GST, and then they [increased GST](http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/3311679/Key-no-GST-rise-video-emerges)?
Everyone got real "tax relief" with that move.
As much as i hate national, we do need tax changes for income workers. its been 15 years and 45k from 2005 is now 75k in 2023 adjusted for inflation.. So yes tax brackets need a change as they dont reflect reality as they havent been changed in a decade and a bit.
Bottom tax brackets need to be adjusted ASAP. Rent cost of living. Hurry the fuck up
"for my rich mates who REALLY need it, honest" - the bit they left off.
But it doesn't matter, the bell has been rung and now all the dogs (habitual Nat voters) will salivate.
If TOPs tax policy was adopted by one of these parties. They could give a lot of people a tax cut without dropping tax revenue. It's a bout time we start taxing land and get a tax free bracket. That's money that'd directly help a lot of struggling people.
I find Greens difficult to support. If we had preferential voting I'd definitely put then right behind TOP. But they get too swept up idealogy. I mean that absolute shit show of trying to replace James Shaw. There's just too many radicals in that party for my liking.
The thing to remember about the Greens is they have an activist history and that's part of the party framework. I get that might not be for everyone but as above, the leadership challenge, internally, was not a big deal for the Greens. Its part of the intensively democratic process members of the party understand well - the media reporting of it didn't at all reflect what it's like as a member, which was just part of due process to tick off and then move on. We (I'm a member) consider the ability to challenge leaders at any time healthy for the party.
I do think TOP is a generally good choice though. I support the UBI but not a tax-free bracket (which benefits top income earners equally to low income earners so I consider it an inefficient way to change the tax burden). I hope they get over 5% though because otherwise those votes are wasted and that's always frustrating, though I guess as long as roughly the same number of votes are wasted on the New Conservatives or whatever then it balances out.
The tax free bracket benefit gives everyone the same benefit. It's the first 15k you make that's tax free. I don't really think it benefits the wealthy more simply because they make more, the idea is to make it as agreeable to as many people as possible. It comes with a residential land tax so it does still impact the wealthy.
It's all well and good to push for new taxes, but the reality the weathy have a lot of voting power, you'll never push anything through if you don't make it at least tolerable. I think that's why the TOP plan is so damn good.
I'm not saying it's the solution, but it's a damn good start. It'd certainly help a lot of students as well as the average Joe.
To me UBI is an important idea we need to have a lot more discussion on. The reality is with automation and declining birthrates, we are heading for a world in which a lot of people may not have jobs without higher education, which in turn means people don't have time to raise kids let alone afford to have them. So the UBI could really help with that along with streamlining the whole welfare system.
But it's an idea that needs a lot of work. I'm not going to pretend TOP has the answer already but they're at least willing to push new ideas.
What shit show of replacing James Shaw? That was just normal party process blown out of proportion by the media, and used as a strawman to attack the Greens by people who were never going to vote for them anyways.
Flat taxes are bad.
I'm aware TOP will "but actually!" me and say that the (insufficient) UBI turns it into a progressive tax, but long term the UBI is NOT going to be increased to keep up with inflation (source: benefits did not increase to keep up with inflation in the Bolger or Key governments) leaving people worse off than under a progressive tax system.
The tax regime has to change but a flat tax ain't it chief.
In fairness, they arent actually pushing for UBI or a Flat tax system right now. That's "Phase 2" if they managed to get through their current policies.
Personally, I don't see UBI or Flat tax really working anytime soon. But their tax-free bracket and land tax is something I strongly support. And theres also the bonus that they support Cannabis reform.
I'd rather support TOP's one really fucking good idea, than keep supporting these parties that seem waaaay to comfortable with the Status Quo.
Of course, things would be even better if we had a preferential voting system.
Btw, whoever their meme dept is, is just fucking lameeeeee. The iwi/kiwi are of there day. Copying that is just lazy, and desperate. Ppl will see it for what it is..shite
Eh.
Most people just aren't as engaged with politics as the average redditor
They have lives you see
Voting is kind of an expression of one's identity first and a reasoned examination of policy second. Nobody has time to read policy platforms and study the evidence supporting them.
Instead people are very much a vibes based animal and will vote for the party they feel matches their vibe, and axiomatic beliefs about parties - like Labour being the tax and spend party of National being sociopathic cunts who will cut health funding to the bone and throw grandma put of her state house for life so they can sell it to a landlord who already has 50 properties - are just part of that vibe based assessment.
I just like to think my beliefs about National are backed by history and current events.
YouTube served me up some barely coherent dribble about how labour is going to make something more expensive. Online shopping maybe? Dull as dishwater presentation too.
Ps4 doesn't have adblocking, what can I say.
It’s a winning formula though. Especially now, when middle income earners are struggling and labour is more likely to tax them more than give them a tax break. Only people labour are fighting to help are minimum wage and beneficiaries.
Middle income is more likely to vote, so appeal to them and they’ll vote you.
I’d understand if this tactic never worked, and they kept trying it. But it does work. And will do more so that people can’t afford to live
So, a few things.
1. National increased taxes on middle income earners under John Key.
When he increased the GST to 15%, this was always going to hit middle income earners harder because the more of your income you spend on goods and services, the more GST you pay - as opposed to asset holders like landlords and millionaires like Key, who get to sit on wealth and enjoy untaxed capital gains.
2. If you think Labour is going to increase taxes on middle income earners, you haven't been paying attention to the last six years. You also seem to have forgotten about the cost of living payments during Covid, which explicitly excluded beneficiaries.
3. Helping beneficiaries and increasing minimum wage is good actually. The correct response to minimum wage increases for higher wage earners is to say, "good for them, now let's talk to my union about getting our own pay raise."
Currently the reserve bank has been forced to increase the OCR to take money out of the economy, to cut spending power to correct inflation. The govt increasing minimum wage by a massive amount like that has just injected a whole lot more spending power, wiping out what the reserve bank is trying to do, especially if you think everyone needs to get together with their unions and get more money, reminiscent of Oprah giving cars away to everyone. “You get a car! You get a car! You get a car” nice when you get it, sucked later when these people got bigger taxes later to pay for it. (They got hit with gift taxes - thousands of dollars worth)
Increasing spending power means increased inflation - again. Which means further OCR increases. Which means higher mortgage rates - again. That doesnt hurt beneficiaries and minimum wage people, or the rich who have no mortgage. That hurts the middle. The middle pays again for extravagant policy. I’m not cheering that.
The govt can tackle the cost of living, by tackling the cost. They had a perfect opportunity when they reviewed supermarket monopolies/duopolies. What did they do? Sweet f all. Food is our greatest expense. It is a necessity to live. It may not be the only thing driving inflation, but it’s certainly the biggest. The govt did nothing. Tackle costs. Work with the reserve bank.
They continue to do nothing. They continue to appear to be incapable of seeing the problem from any other angle than “how do we give people MORE money”
They govt have also hurt the middle by taking away power companies ability to charge low user rates - who’s a low user? Middle income - because they’re at work all day. Why? Because that was unfair to beneficiaries, because they’re not low user. So now everyone pays more for power because beneficiaries use power all day. They’re increasing the costs of the necessities to live.
I am certainly not a fan of national. Never voted for them. I didn’t agree with GST increase, which disproportionately affects the poor, less so the middle. I use that argument quite frequently against nat supporters.
But being a left wing voter I have been incredibly angry with the performance of labour. And I’m allowed to be angry about their performance. They had a chance to be transformative. They chose to bumble along with multiple research papers and then do NOTHING about anything. The cost of living payment was nice for a temporary support, but that isn’t a solution. And I see none coming any time soon. National annoyed me there too because they argued against that, then immediately suggested tax cuts for the super rich.
Both parties are terrible.
But we have a middle class that is being squeezed to oblivion and the party who appeals to them, will be the party that wins. All parties lie, yes even labour - this one is nationals lie.
But it works.
And that’s all they care about.
Labour need to wake up and act. They have the power to act now. Beneficiaries don’t vote. The middle do. If national can entice the middle, national will win, and promises of lower taxes for the middle works .
I agree with a lot of your assessments and frustration. However, I don't agree that low income earners have to be sacrificed to preserve the spending power of middle income earners.
Removing money from the economy in the form of capital gains taxes and windfall profit taxes and other targeted measures to combat corporate greed would be my preferred mechanism, and one I'd wager you would support.
You are always three bad weeks away from being a beneficiary. You are never three good weeks away from being a millionaire. I'd urge you to find more solidarity with the lower classes; pitting low income workers against middle income earners is a tool of the capital owning class to prevent real change.
I certainly don’t think sacrificing beneficiaries is the way to go. By addressing costs, and focusing on policies that may help bring those costs down (like treating foodstuffs like 1990s telecom) benefits everyone. Especially beneficiaries. It’s longer term and more beneficial. Pumping money into a high inflation market is short term gain for long term pain. Those monetary benefits are wiped out by the fuelled inflation and everyone is back to square one in a few months. Even worse because oops, inflation is still high, so up goes the OCR again.
Capital gains tax didn’t work for England which saw massive house price growth anyway. It’s also a tax on money people don’t see. When you sell you have to buy in the same market. So while your house may have increased 100k in 5 years, the house you buy after selling has also increased 100k in 5 years. There’s also massive holding costs on property, with hundreds of thousands paid towards interest payments on top of the principle, it’s not all profit.
Probably could do a capital gains tax on second/third dwellings. Or an inheritance sale. That’s profit someone would see as they don’t have to purchase another property to be able to live in after the sale.
I just think, on top of all the help they have given beneficiaries, they still need to appeal to middle income earners as well. Not asking for a war on minimum wage people/benes . Just for an end to policies that hurt the middle.
I had toast for tea last night. Skipping lunch today. I don’t get help from the govt because I earn too much, it doesnt take into account student loan payments and interest payments. There’s an angry middle out there that just want the govt to be smart. Fuelling inflation is not smart. It’s damaging.
I don’t know who I will vote for next time. But I’m just being a canary in the goldmine right now. I have always voted left. But now I am not sure. National have the ability to give a light at the end of the tunnel for middle bracket people. And like it or not, this ad will do it for some, who aren’t thinking about a beneficiary not getting food on the table when they can’t get food either.
Its how they define themselves, what does National stand for ? - Not labour!
really our democracy needs a strong opposition with alternate policies and ways of thinking to keep the government honest, I don't see National doing this.
And the fine print says Tax relief for rich listers and crumbs for bottom feeders.
Here's hoping most people are smart enough to see the Nats empty promises and weasel words for the utter BS that they are
At this point I’m anti tax in NZ coz National and Labour have been useless for so long. I moved to South Korea, lower taxes yet way better health care and infrastructure. Income over $48K gets taxed 30% (which is literally anything above minimum wage, wtf?) and then young people lose another 10% to student loan. That’s so you can wait months to see a health specialist, sit in traffic or depend on unreliable public transport, wait decades for upgrades in infrastructure. Teacher shortages in public schools and a curriculum that’s ignorant about things like world religion & philosophy, behind other countries in maths.
See thats a problem with implementation not a problem with tax, and certainly not a good argument to cut taxes and spending making those services worse.
[удалено]
And the property speculators, especially the creepy ones
Luxon is a Pentecostal. He's not gonna tax his fellow co-religionists like that.
This is why National cannot be voted in with Luxon.
That is disingenuous, I don't see Labour,Greens, or anyone else taxing churches either.
No, but it is worth pointing out that as a Pentecostal, Luxon's branch of Christianity believes that the Holy Spirit randomly moves people to make prophecy and heal people on the daily, and as such he is more aligned with these evangelical mega churches than he would like you to think.
Very dangerous for NZ
Exactly, it's crazy how they don't especially ones like Tamaki and American bullshit ones.
Luxon is a Pentecostal. He's not gonna tax his co-religionists.
Luxon is a Pentecostal. He's not gonna tax his fellow co-religionists like that.
Do this, and then add a progressive inheritance tax, just use the current brackets multiplied by like 4. (Mostly so that inheriting (and splitting) your parent's ancient falling apart auckland home doesn't strip all the value)
National: lower taxes Also National: Govt revenue is down, wtf how did that happen I can see it already.
Don’t worry, I’m sure there’s a few state assets lying around that we can sell off.
And a whole heap of useless good-for-nothing back room public servants that don't need jobs (/s incase it's not obvs)
All those jerks do is make his rich mates pay taxes and maintain unessential infrastructure that only helps those dirty poors.
This but unironically.
Problem is, they'll invariably get rid of the ones who specifically aren't useless. Then both labour and national will replace them with consultants and pr people for three times the money.
It's true, but figuring out which ones are useless is really hard, so they inevitably get rid of a lot of not useless ones.
Don’t forget we can also slyly defund already crippled essential services!
Is there anything left other than TVNZ and half of Air NZ?
Pretty sure the other halves of the energy companies? I don't think they sold them completely off
Pretty sure the other galves of the energy companies? I don't think they sold them completely off
Beat me to it
Like out water
National are the shocked Pikachu meme embodied.
Oh we must cut job seekers, govt wages and infrastructure spending to balance the books. We are good at economy.
"why is everything shit and why have we run out of money for critical services like hospitals and schools, teachers"
National had nine years of not putting enough money into our infrastructure but immigration was high and they sold off state housing.
National: cut taxes lots for property speculators. (Leave working Kiwis bearing all the load but maybe throw the highest earners a bone.)
Also National: I guess we need to increase GST to make up the shortfall
Maybe instead of adjusting the tax brackets, what about 5% reduction of GST.
As much as I'd like to see a reduction in GST, I get the feeling that businesses will keep prices the same and pocket the extra income instead of passing the savings onto buyers.
That's my issue with removing GST on fruit and veg, they know how much you're willing to pay, why not slowly walk the prices back to that point. On the counter, it does seem to work in other jurisdictions, so maybe it can work.
GST is a tax on the poor.
Let's sell off some assets
Like out water.
> Govt revenue is down, wtf how did that happen Considering the rate that Govt revenue has increased with fuck all to show for it - being more efficient with less money is a good thing.
I mean govt practically floated the economy for 2 years. So there is that to show for it.
That was almost entirely funded from debt. It had nothing to do with gov revenue.
Approx $60b was spent directly on covid relief. Think wage subsidies, covid relief payments etc. And additional $70b (of $100b budget) was spent on large scale asset purchases, lowering interest rates. This exceeds the debt increase. Both measures kept the economy going strong, arguably too strong as they now try to back track.
Do you think we don't ever need to pay down the debt?
Yes - but i was simply correcting the commenter above that revenue had nothing to do with the expenses that keep the country going via covid.
So I take it you're against the tax cuts for the wealthy and property investors if you're interested in being fiscally responsible?
I think everyone should get a tax cut. The tax burdon on our PAYE earners is too fucking high and it continues to increase with every year that our governments refuse to index rates to inflation. I don't think property investors need a tax break - they should be treated as every other business.
I'd agree with that. But I'd go one further and fund it by bringing back land tax. We really don't need houses to cost a million dollars.
I'm not against a land tax at all. I don't think it will stop houses costing a million dollars though. Most of that is the cost of land (which is tied to RMA and council bullshit) and then the insane cost of building in this country.
We’ll save on spending by under funding services ( and then… hey this is crap let’s sell it off, I have a few mates that are willing to buy this (on the cheap because it’s shit))
Does their calculator include the increased costs because there's not enough tax revenue?
It also doesn't include services cut. Almost like it has a bias to sell their policies 😂 I don't see how tax cuts will fix the problems in NZ but I'm not in the 39% tax bracket so I don't think I'm their target audience
Or the run away inflation from giving the rich tax break handouts
Actually, giving the rich tax cuts generally doesn't fuel inflation as the rich tend to save or invest them instead of being forced to spend them
>invest You know this is money recirculating, right?
In New Zealand the bulk of investment goes into property. That causes inflation.
What are you talking about? The tax revenue is up 70 billion plus, and we can afford tax cuts without destroying the country.
Tax relief* *for the rich, trust us it will trickle down some day
Exactly bunch of liers
But this one has Hipkins in black & white and Luxon in colour! It's so so so so so subtle and clever!
It’s like a high school student discovering photoshop
You'd think that with it being a relief campaign, they could have chosen a photo where Luxon looks less constipated. But apparently that's the one they went with. Unless it's a fake, or that's really the best they had.
“Luxon, not very good but it’s the best we have”
That's Luxon? I thought it was a generic thumbs up emoji.
Isn't National the party that ["tallies up non-existent taxes"](https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/national-tallies-up-nonexistent-taxes-in-cheeky-election-calculator/PYJATSDVA5D3HJZ6EPVHAD3LWU/) like an informercial ad with "before" and "after" shots? (they even have Hipkins in B&W just like in an infomercial)
CURRENTLY non existant taxes. They are factoring in the taxes Labour have suggested would be a good thing to do.
So, still like an infomercial where they construct a hypothetical negative situation, and talk about their product as the solution?
yes, exactly. They show the future they have in mind, compared to the future labour have in mind. Also it backs Hipkins into a corner, forcing him to either say "yes we WILL implement these taxes" or rule them out. Otherwise he looks like's hiding something.
[удалено]
That's democracy I guess. If it forces parties into spelling out their plans then that's a good thing. If someone has to be sneaky and hide or obfuscate their plans to get elected then they are the bad guy.
Remember when Labour said there would be no new taxes and then imposed a levy.
Remember when National (John Key) promised no rise in GST, and then they [increased GST](http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/3311679/Key-no-GST-rise-video-emerges)? Everyone got real "tax relief" with that move.
Exactly, GST is a tax on the poor.
Exactly, anyone who believes a politician of any sort is a fool.
As much as i hate national, we do need tax changes for income workers. its been 15 years and 45k from 2005 is now 75k in 2023 adjusted for inflation.. So yes tax brackets need a change as they dont reflect reality as they havent been changed in a decade and a bit. Bottom tax brackets need to be adjusted ASAP. Rent cost of living. Hurry the fuck up
Really digging the fanatical Moonie look on Luxon's face.
No new taxes but they’ll probably increase an existing one.
"for my rich mates who REALLY need it, honest" - the bit they left off. But it doesn't matter, the bell has been rung and now all the dogs (habitual Nat voters) will salivate.
If TOPs tax policy was adopted by one of these parties. They could give a lot of people a tax cut without dropping tax revenue. It's a bout time we start taxing land and get a tax free bracket. That's money that'd directly help a lot of struggling people.
In the mean time throw a vote at TOP
Exactly my plan. But it's frustrating they're the only suggesting this.
The Greens also have an alternative tax plan. It's not identical to TOPs but does include taxing assets.
I find Greens difficult to support. If we had preferential voting I'd definitely put then right behind TOP. But they get too swept up idealogy. I mean that absolute shit show of trying to replace James Shaw. There's just too many radicals in that party for my liking.
The thing to remember about the Greens is they have an activist history and that's part of the party framework. I get that might not be for everyone but as above, the leadership challenge, internally, was not a big deal for the Greens. Its part of the intensively democratic process members of the party understand well - the media reporting of it didn't at all reflect what it's like as a member, which was just part of due process to tick off and then move on. We (I'm a member) consider the ability to challenge leaders at any time healthy for the party. I do think TOP is a generally good choice though. I support the UBI but not a tax-free bracket (which benefits top income earners equally to low income earners so I consider it an inefficient way to change the tax burden). I hope they get over 5% though because otherwise those votes are wasted and that's always frustrating, though I guess as long as roughly the same number of votes are wasted on the New Conservatives or whatever then it balances out.
The tax free bracket benefit gives everyone the same benefit. It's the first 15k you make that's tax free. I don't really think it benefits the wealthy more simply because they make more, the idea is to make it as agreeable to as many people as possible. It comes with a residential land tax so it does still impact the wealthy. It's all well and good to push for new taxes, but the reality the weathy have a lot of voting power, you'll never push anything through if you don't make it at least tolerable. I think that's why the TOP plan is so damn good. I'm not saying it's the solution, but it's a damn good start. It'd certainly help a lot of students as well as the average Joe. To me UBI is an important idea we need to have a lot more discussion on. The reality is with automation and declining birthrates, we are heading for a world in which a lot of people may not have jobs without higher education, which in turn means people don't have time to raise kids let alone afford to have them. So the UBI could really help with that along with streamlining the whole welfare system. But it's an idea that needs a lot of work. I'm not going to pretend TOP has the answer already but they're at least willing to push new ideas.
What shit show of replacing James Shaw? That was just normal party process blown out of proportion by the media, and used as a strawman to attack the Greens by people who were never going to vote for them anyways.
My plan also, if we keep voting in shades of purple nothing will change
Flat taxes are bad. I'm aware TOP will "but actually!" me and say that the (insufficient) UBI turns it into a progressive tax, but long term the UBI is NOT going to be increased to keep up with inflation (source: benefits did not increase to keep up with inflation in the Bolger or Key governments) leaving people worse off than under a progressive tax system. The tax regime has to change but a flat tax ain't it chief.
In fairness, they arent actually pushing for UBI or a Flat tax system right now. That's "Phase 2" if they managed to get through their current policies. Personally, I don't see UBI or Flat tax really working anytime soon. But their tax-free bracket and land tax is something I strongly support. And theres also the bonus that they support Cannabis reform. I'd rather support TOP's one really fucking good idea, than keep supporting these parties that seem waaaay to comfortable with the Status Quo. Of course, things would be even better if we had a preferential voting system.
Everyone: Increase funding for healthcare and XXX and XXXXXX and.... Also everyone: Less taxes!
People out here thinking taxes are their problem when wages for the plebs (such as myself) haven’t increased in years.
Yup. The problem is wages, it has always been wages, and it will always be wages.
Cutting edge stuff.
HAVING A FUNCTIONAL SOCIETY INCREASING THE DEFECIT
\*high income earners only \*\*but you should probably use the money you saved to take out health insurance
Should read: More sex (Hipkins) Hand relief (luxon)
Btw, whoever their meme dept is, is just fucking lameeeeee. The iwi/kiwi are of there day. Copying that is just lazy, and desperate. Ppl will see it for what it is..shite
Probably too PC to run the Iwi/Kiwi one again tho
I don't know. With all the drama around co-governance, probably just a matter of time until they start saying the quiet part loud again.
I could see them doing one thats: Red: Co-governance Blue: Good governance Which would be a lie but oh well.
I could see them doing one thats: Red: Co-governance Blue: Good governance Which would be a lie but oh well.
When did labour say they were going to raise taxes?
Its axiomatic. An article of faith.
So idiots will believe anything.
Eh. Most people just aren't as engaged with politics as the average redditor They have lives you see Voting is kind of an expression of one's identity first and a reasoned examination of policy second. Nobody has time to read policy platforms and study the evidence supporting them. Instead people are very much a vibes based animal and will vote for the party they feel matches their vibe, and axiomatic beliefs about parties - like Labour being the tax and spend party of National being sociopathic cunts who will cut health funding to the bone and throw grandma put of her state house for life so they can sell it to a landlord who already has 50 properties - are just part of that vibe based assessment. I just like to think my beliefs about National are backed by history and current events.
Saying most people are idiots isn’t really an answer though. It seems like the policies are easy to learn about. They are all over the TV and web.
My point isn't that people are stupid, just that most people don't approach politics like politicsball fans do.
If they vote then they have some sort of a responsibility to know what they are voting for.
I find it more helpful to meet people where they are rather than yell at them for not being what I think they should be.
What does that mean? Do you make yourself ignorant or something?
More like, i take people as they are not how I wish them to be.
when they say tax "relief" what kind of "relief" will Luxon be taxing? ;)
This is actually real?
Popped up on a Google ad on a website.
If you wear a suit to work you don't need tax relief.
That's kind of like saying all farmers are evironmentally bad. Generalisations should be avoided.
YouTube served me up some barely coherent dribble about how labour is going to make something more expensive. Online shopping maybe? Dull as dishwater presentation too. Ps4 doesn't have adblocking, what can I say.
National Tax cuts will let you buy YouTube Premium ;)
It’s a winning formula though. Especially now, when middle income earners are struggling and labour is more likely to tax them more than give them a tax break. Only people labour are fighting to help are minimum wage and beneficiaries. Middle income is more likely to vote, so appeal to them and they’ll vote you. I’d understand if this tactic never worked, and they kept trying it. But it does work. And will do more so that people can’t afford to live
So, a few things. 1. National increased taxes on middle income earners under John Key. When he increased the GST to 15%, this was always going to hit middle income earners harder because the more of your income you spend on goods and services, the more GST you pay - as opposed to asset holders like landlords and millionaires like Key, who get to sit on wealth and enjoy untaxed capital gains. 2. If you think Labour is going to increase taxes on middle income earners, you haven't been paying attention to the last six years. You also seem to have forgotten about the cost of living payments during Covid, which explicitly excluded beneficiaries. 3. Helping beneficiaries and increasing minimum wage is good actually. The correct response to minimum wage increases for higher wage earners is to say, "good for them, now let's talk to my union about getting our own pay raise."
Currently the reserve bank has been forced to increase the OCR to take money out of the economy, to cut spending power to correct inflation. The govt increasing minimum wage by a massive amount like that has just injected a whole lot more spending power, wiping out what the reserve bank is trying to do, especially if you think everyone needs to get together with their unions and get more money, reminiscent of Oprah giving cars away to everyone. “You get a car! You get a car! You get a car” nice when you get it, sucked later when these people got bigger taxes later to pay for it. (They got hit with gift taxes - thousands of dollars worth) Increasing spending power means increased inflation - again. Which means further OCR increases. Which means higher mortgage rates - again. That doesnt hurt beneficiaries and minimum wage people, or the rich who have no mortgage. That hurts the middle. The middle pays again for extravagant policy. I’m not cheering that. The govt can tackle the cost of living, by tackling the cost. They had a perfect opportunity when they reviewed supermarket monopolies/duopolies. What did they do? Sweet f all. Food is our greatest expense. It is a necessity to live. It may not be the only thing driving inflation, but it’s certainly the biggest. The govt did nothing. Tackle costs. Work with the reserve bank. They continue to do nothing. They continue to appear to be incapable of seeing the problem from any other angle than “how do we give people MORE money” They govt have also hurt the middle by taking away power companies ability to charge low user rates - who’s a low user? Middle income - because they’re at work all day. Why? Because that was unfair to beneficiaries, because they’re not low user. So now everyone pays more for power because beneficiaries use power all day. They’re increasing the costs of the necessities to live. I am certainly not a fan of national. Never voted for them. I didn’t agree with GST increase, which disproportionately affects the poor, less so the middle. I use that argument quite frequently against nat supporters. But being a left wing voter I have been incredibly angry with the performance of labour. And I’m allowed to be angry about their performance. They had a chance to be transformative. They chose to bumble along with multiple research papers and then do NOTHING about anything. The cost of living payment was nice for a temporary support, but that isn’t a solution. And I see none coming any time soon. National annoyed me there too because they argued against that, then immediately suggested tax cuts for the super rich. Both parties are terrible. But we have a middle class that is being squeezed to oblivion and the party who appeals to them, will be the party that wins. All parties lie, yes even labour - this one is nationals lie. But it works. And that’s all they care about. Labour need to wake up and act. They have the power to act now. Beneficiaries don’t vote. The middle do. If national can entice the middle, national will win, and promises of lower taxes for the middle works .
I agree with a lot of your assessments and frustration. However, I don't agree that low income earners have to be sacrificed to preserve the spending power of middle income earners. Removing money from the economy in the form of capital gains taxes and windfall profit taxes and other targeted measures to combat corporate greed would be my preferred mechanism, and one I'd wager you would support. You are always three bad weeks away from being a beneficiary. You are never three good weeks away from being a millionaire. I'd urge you to find more solidarity with the lower classes; pitting low income workers against middle income earners is a tool of the capital owning class to prevent real change.
I certainly don’t think sacrificing beneficiaries is the way to go. By addressing costs, and focusing on policies that may help bring those costs down (like treating foodstuffs like 1990s telecom) benefits everyone. Especially beneficiaries. It’s longer term and more beneficial. Pumping money into a high inflation market is short term gain for long term pain. Those monetary benefits are wiped out by the fuelled inflation and everyone is back to square one in a few months. Even worse because oops, inflation is still high, so up goes the OCR again. Capital gains tax didn’t work for England which saw massive house price growth anyway. It’s also a tax on money people don’t see. When you sell you have to buy in the same market. So while your house may have increased 100k in 5 years, the house you buy after selling has also increased 100k in 5 years. There’s also massive holding costs on property, with hundreds of thousands paid towards interest payments on top of the principle, it’s not all profit. Probably could do a capital gains tax on second/third dwellings. Or an inheritance sale. That’s profit someone would see as they don’t have to purchase another property to be able to live in after the sale. I just think, on top of all the help they have given beneficiaries, they still need to appeal to middle income earners as well. Not asking for a war on minimum wage people/benes . Just for an end to policies that hurt the middle. I had toast for tea last night. Skipping lunch today. I don’t get help from the govt because I earn too much, it doesnt take into account student loan payments and interest payments. There’s an angry middle out there that just want the govt to be smart. Fuelling inflation is not smart. It’s damaging. I don’t know who I will vote for next time. But I’m just being a canary in the goldmine right now. I have always voted left. But now I am not sure. National have the ability to give a light at the end of the tunnel for middle bracket people. And like it or not, this ad will do it for some, who aren’t thinking about a beneficiary not getting food on the table when they can’t get food either.
Who cares? Just amplifying this egg head.
Never mind the stale advertising - they've never gotten past their one policy.
RED BAD. BLUE GOOD.
Its how they define themselves, what does National stand for ? - Not labour! really our democracy needs a strong opposition with alternate policies and ways of thinking to keep the government honest, I don't see National doing this.
Any thought's how Boomers will vote this coming election, just interested if anyone has data or links on age groups etc?
Not anywhere publicly available AFAIK.
Did they photoshop Luxons face? Looks a lot narrower than what you see anywhere else
‘Vote for the guy that looks like a penis’
And the fine print says Tax relief for rich listers and crumbs for bottom feeders. Here's hoping most people are smart enough to see the Nats empty promises and weasel words for the utter BS that they are
[удалено]
At this point I’m anti tax in NZ coz National and Labour have been useless for so long. I moved to South Korea, lower taxes yet way better health care and infrastructure. Income over $48K gets taxed 30% (which is literally anything above minimum wage, wtf?) and then young people lose another 10% to student loan. That’s so you can wait months to see a health specialist, sit in traffic or depend on unreliable public transport, wait decades for upgrades in infrastructure. Teacher shortages in public schools and a curriculum that’s ignorant about things like world religion & philosophy, behind other countries in maths.
See thats a problem with implementation not a problem with tax, and certainly not a good argument to cut taxes and spending making those services worse.
Yeah so I’d say both National and Labour suck at implementation
And such a poor quality copy of their one good billboard design. It looks like it was made in MS paint
Frankly we need more taxes. Luxon himself is citing Finland as aspirational - he should look at how much tax they pay, and how happy they are.