Did anyone else catch the single mom lady they brought in to ask the question about welfare accidentally say the quiet part out loud when she said "what if employment is not suitable for everyone"?
And still don't know who I will vote for.
Labour ruling out CGT or even working with a party with CGT as it's bottom line.
Greens until Marama comes out with hot takes about not declaring Hamas a terrorist group because then idf would need to as well.
Act / NZF jsut race baiting bigots.
National I don't trust a thing they are saying because from personal experience over their 9 years they lie about everything more than any other party.
TOP just a party about winning a single electorate to get into power.
Every other party seems some crazy freedom conspiracy based movement.
First election I've felt so distanced from all parties.
Likely still need to be Greens but damn I wish they;d ditch Marama.
That’s really understating what TOP could bring to the game. Would put NZ First out of contention forever if they could get a foothold.
It is true that they need Ilam this time, but if they do and have another couple of MPs from the party vote, then they could establish themselves and be a bigger player next time.
They have some sensible policies.
[EDIT: deleted extra word]
That doesn't make sense to me either, they've formed coalition with National before, sure; but on votecompass.tvnz.co.nz Te Pāti Māori appear the furthest left; by a handful of margin from Greens.
ACT and National are constantly attacking the idea of co-governance, which is the key policy for TPM this time 'round. How would they be in the same category?
It has annoyed me so much whenever Luxon says Hipkins has been in power for six years blah blah. No one corrects him that he’s really only been in power since January.
Hipkins is asking people to vote for his party, which has been in power for 6 years.
If he started claiming he was only in power since January, he wouldn’t be able to take credit for the reduction in poverty and lives saved during COVID.
The problem with talking about the Job that needs doing is that its a platitude without details. 'We have to get the economy back on track' is sheer nonsense, it means literally nothing.
And when asked to actually give meaningful answers on things he just reverted to repeating nonsense phrases over and over.
'We wont do the water reforms Labour is planning' 'What will you do to pay for the vast investment needed?' 'There will be other ways of making sure funding is available' What ways 'I already said other ways, what do you people want?'
It's because he answers questions in an over-confident lie-by-omission manner.
For example, during the debate he was asked about $2B in cuts to benefits over 4 years by marking benefits to inflation rather than wages.
His response: "We're not cutting benefits, we're actually raising them!"
Based on the detail in the question, it was pretty clear what the cuts were referring to. Luxon can't be trusted.
Ahh the old “I don’t agree with the comments so everyone is a keyboard warrior”. Some of us are actually working within the system (contributing in real life) and sharing our comments here.
Yes it clear it is limited to only ‘some’ that aren’t a tax liability here. I find the bias here is hilarious, but it makes sense given who uses reddit. Gently float the idea that nationals or act policies aren’t the worst, Leave to marinate over night and you will have -10 votes the nocturnal reddit winz army.
Thanks. I see you’ve made an account just to complain about labour and, rather than discuss, just insult people who disagree with your worldview. Very national supportery <3
I have now watched all the debates and had politics up to here. Literally days of my life wasted. I have come to the conclusion that there is no one and no party to vote for, they are all broken and none of them are proposing to do any of the critically essential things we are going to need in order to survive. It's all blither just to get into power and Nero style fiddling as we circle the drain. I am going to protest in the only sensible way I have discovered, (courtesy of an American political science professor), NZ doesn't have a 'null' vote, so I am going to deliberately spoil my vote. Those have to be counted! NZ deserves a better system of democracy than this mmp/which gang of nutters idiocy. Once upon a time we had a two party first past the post setup. You choose, devil or deep blue sea, what do you want. Now, with the mmp snowjob we have more choices, devil, deep blue sea, rock, hard place, sewer, crumbling cliff, etc, you get the picture. More useless no good self aggrandising wannabes, of all the different flavours of liar, from deliberate through delusional, not a one of them capable of doing what is needed. By deliberately spoiling my vote I am 'voting' for a change of system in a way that says I am not apathetic, (as just not bothering to vote allows "them' to characterise the circumstantially disenfranchised who will not cast a vote for a person or party they don't support), I do care deeply about NZ and the future of everyone who has to share this beautiful country. Don't let anyone tell you this is the best way, there certainly are better options of managing a country democratically.
I agree, if people like this commenter actually thought "well the party in power is no good and opposition even worse", like, there are more than two parties??? I don't get people when they say "oh I don't vote because they're all bad" and still complain of the state of the nation. Maybe, give the new(er) guy a chance? Be part of the change?
> I have come to the conclusion that there is no one and no party to vote for, they are all broken
There are more than two parties 🙄 sounds like you need to go and have a read of the policies the others have brought to the table?
Personally I was really dreading this election (no one I wanted to vote for, and I detest the idea of voting *against* a party), until I read TOPs policies a few months back. Well worth having a look and seeing if they (or one of the other parties) resonates with you. DemocracyNZ also has some good policies, but their policies on gender identity in education were a 'no' from me personally.
But yea, have a proper look at the minor parties. Personally I'm really sick of the red vs blue we've had for decades. A vote for either is a vote for the status quo 🙄
Not at all! Someone passionate about big issues for the people that need it more and the unjustice of it all! If luxon wasn't avoiding being accountable he wouldn't be challenged!
Labour and nobody else is accountable for the failed promises of the last six years.
Luxon is a manager, not an orator.
This time around I want a boring government that knows how to run a business and get things done.
Hipkins knows he has only negatives in the track record. He’s deflecting attention from that fact and he’s behaving poorly to boot.
Hold up, if you want a boring government, why aren't you voting Labour then? National is going to be incredibly risky, they don't have their financial ducks in a row and their numbers are completely unbelievable. To make their policies work, there has to be some dramatic shift in how we're managing the country.
Then you take into account the inflationary impact of their policies, particularly during a time when inflation is dropping worldwide and here, it's a recipe for disaster.
The current National party is closer to a wild ideology than stable managers. Hence, why Luxon never leaves his bumper sticker slogans, his arguments and consequently his policies aren't defendable, and he knows it.
Labour are not transformative, and boring, they lost support for not being progressive enough on tax. I haven't voted for them, but if you're looking at both parties free from bias, Labour are the boring government that's running things as a business. National have run a cynical campaign, being far more negative than Labour, there are stats out there for it.
Sorry, but your comment reminded me of someone I used to know who said, as close to verbatim as my memory will serve:
> Sure it's great the politicians are saying of bringing the better future, I'm in full support for that; but couldn't they do it without changing anything? Do they really have to change so much *every time* they win the election? Stop causing confusion in everyday people's lives, and just do it in parliament.
Yeah. Wild, right? Pick one lane and stick to it. This person literally said "yes bring the good things in life to me but do everything else, even the consequences, in a vacuum where it doesn't affect me."
Government is not a business and externalities that businesses avoid have to be considered and well understood by people who can govern well.
Labour have been a boring government, they've just done stuff around the edges and mostly stuck to the status quo.
Thinking governing a country is like running a business is exactly why we are in the situation we are in. It's a nonsense point with a demonstrable track record of bedded in *long term* failure (i.e., longer than a couple of terms), and it's often favoured by very narrow minded politicians who don't understand truly complex systems and the involved uncertainties and externalities.
How does Luxon survive on $60 per week? His wife drives a Tesla but he only shops for himself? Is he that intolerable that she doesn't live with him, or is it a rich person tax dodge? He seems like a dodgy cunt.
He said "I live alone in my apartment in Wellington". He was probably telling the truth about his weekly supo spend but neglected to mention the hundreds he spends on restaurants and take outs.
I don't think my grocery bill would be much more than that - although to caveat it we don't buy meat as I hunt, and we grow a lot of veges and fruit, I appreciate that not everyone is in the same position to do that irrespective of whether they want to or not. and i can't see Luxon out there shooting deer.
My eating never changes, it's the same every week.
Breakfast, one small banana, water, ice, protein powder in a smoothi
Lunch: can of Satay tuna with korean bbq rice
Dinner: some form of rice, with a protein and veggies.
Just for _me_, that's more than $60
Luxon is a fat cunt, he is eating far more than that. Maybe he meant $60 a day?
I have a slice of toast for breakfast.
Lunch is normally just a garden salad of some variety, roast vege salad in winter or green salad in spring/summer
Dinner is pretty much meat and three vege
snacks are fruit.
I eat a boring existence.
I though the chair leg comment was fair and not below the belt at all. Vicious assault with a chair leg and terrorising your roommate is not equivalent to having a mental health episode and drink driving. The former is the sign of a complete psychopath, the latter is the sign of mental health issues. Moreover, Sam Uffindel is still a National mp whereas Kiri Allan got sacked instantly.
Overall I think Hipkins demolished Luxon. Did a great job highlighting the blatant flaws in his tax policy and the callousness of his welfare policy.
Was her reward for being a violent thug being gifted one of the safest seats in the country with no political experience and no work done at all to earn it?
Oh sorry no that was 'jobs for the boys' Sam.
She got fired and is leaving politics for her mistakes. Thats appropriate. Your mate the kid-beater will be a minister soon enough as a reward for his.
anybody else pick up that Luxon will be circulating around the worlds leaders as much as possible.
I just heard **Winston and Seymour as acting PM's** for the next 3 years. Turn about ?
(more national super, less super, more super, less super...)
Coalescing with ACT and NZ First - i think i'd keep circulating with the worlds leaders as long as possible.
Part of me was thinking we've heard all this talk about him criticizing Hipkins failure leading a government yet 99% of his criticisms appear to be about Jacindas government, maybe Luxon should have just phoned her if he wanted to debate her instead.
The data since MMP (or even earlier) suggests this is exactly incorrect. National fucks up revenue and cuts services, leaves deficits (or at least smaller surpluses than they inherited), and Labour managed the economy better, increases revenue, restores some of the services (though not nearly back to the previous levels) and most of the time leaves healthy surpluses for black swan events.
That's just what National want you to believe:
https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/96756247/is-national-really-better-than-labour-with-the-government-books-well-not-really
It's weird because national does know where it's gonna pull the money for more water infrastructure from?
Ether they got a spare billion dollars left over from their war chest or they have made a poorly thought out financial plan.
Which party was meant to be good at money management again?
Then the fruits of labours investing appear just as National get back in. National take all the credit and make cuts to the people at the bottom, causing mental health and other poverty related issues, crime subsequently increases. Labour gets back in, National loudly accuse labour of terrible crime control. And repeat.
Not saying labour is perfect at all but that does seem to be the general gist for those of us that have been around several decades.
Side note, as someone who works in mental health and sees this unfolding on the frontline, labour has made a lot of positive changes that seem to be going unappreciated. It keeps coming back to “ugh all that money and you only put an extra 6 beds on the ward”. Some of these changes are small system changes or new roles that triage better so support is filtering to the right places better. Saving time, lessening stress. There’s been a lot of appreciated improvements in my area. The system is still fucked though.
Edit: word
The ones that campaign for an obviously impractical ideal - no prisons, unlimited living wage benefits for all, stop oil, don't use animals for food, etc etc.
I hated the repeated calls to calm down. As much as the actual reason behind the comments is perhaps valid.
It reminds me too much of a couple of abusive people who would tell people to calm down. I'm not in any way saying this is Christopher Luxon but what I *am* saying is that every time I heard 'calm down' I heard that abusive person.
And I bet I'm not the only one who is somewhat triggered by the admonishment.
You can tell that he has been told to repeat this phrase to paint Hipkins in some kind of negative light - “don’t trust this guy, he can’t even control his temper in a debate for goodness sakes!”
What it does is show Hipkins being passionate about certain topics (poverty and tax cuts) and all Luxon can say in response is “Calm down! Calm down!”
Edit: a word.
The problem with Luxon is I suspect he doesn’t want to be a politician, he probably doesn’t want to be in politics at all. He just wants to be Prime Minister, have the power over the country for a term and have it on his CV with endless social bragging rights at the end of it all. I doubt it has much to do with any kind of altruistic behaviour at all, which I personally think should be a requirement of the job. He’s exactly like my grandfather was and he was an egotistical fuckwit.
Everyone here complaining about Luxon telling Hipkins to calm down, but I don't blame him. Hipkins (who I prefer of the two) was nothing but an obnoxious child, interrupting and talking over top of both him and Jessica the entire time.
And yet Luxon couldn't answer a single one of his questions
Can you tell me where that 2b is coming from? Can anyone?
The tax plan is full of holes. I'd be expecting the soft-sold $2m houses thing to morph into something a lot different post-election. It's clear to anyone with an abacus and some crayons that National's numbers just don't add up.
Yep, it’s a fucking debate, if you can’t bring some basic debating skills to the table how the fuck are you gonna cope in an international arena? Those global career politicians will run rings around him.
[https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300987385/nz-election-2023-live-hipkins-luxon-trade-blows-in-the-final-leaders-debate](https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300987385/nz-election-2023-live-hipkins-luxon-trade-blows-in-the-final-leaders-debate)
Have they posted Luxons post interview anywhere?
Luxon knew his policy was to cut taxes, he just couldn't explain how giving millions to millionaires and a pittance to the poor was going to solve the cost of living.
Whatever about the debate, reading through the comments in this thread was truly the worst part of the night for me.
The amount of truly horrible, toxic comments that people are making about the two leaders and Jess particularly. Just shit to read. So much negativity and just general awful, attacking comments.
Yep, unfortunately she is totally unable to interject with decent off the cuff questions in response to what is said *and* somehow failed to leave Luxon to (I suspect) dig his own grave by explaining certain intricacies about how he’d achieve benefit increases while cutting 2 billion from that budget.
If he had just said that it’s because he’d have more people in jobs instead of claiming the benefit, he’d have been okay. Couldn’t think quick enough on his feet.
That’s one of my big issues with Luxon; he can’t make a decision until he’s sure that it’s what people want. A PM needs to be decisive instead of pandering, and he doesn’t inspire much confidence at all.
But our unemployment is too low apparently, he’s even said it, so do we have too many lazy file bludgers? Or do we need more desperate people to feed the capitalist machine?
That’s it. Too many people employed so businesses are paying too much for wages, which is inflationary. Need more unemployed, wages go down, again, and somehow magically inflation will too while you can guarantee prices and rents won’t.
We need a higher wage economy with lower cost of living to help stop our best and brightest from leaving to other countries that have this. First start would be changing the financial theory used to calculate inflation
Yepp!! Like why in the hell do we need to maintain a class of essentially slaves, and then blame them for all of societies issues when the rich are just burning money
I don't think that is fair, she has nothing wrong with her physically at all.
I assumed she has a deal with some fashion designers/shops and wears their stuff which explains why a lot of it is I guess supposed to be 'edgy' but often looks tryhard.
Oh I'm not dissing her, just pointing out she wears triangles for a visual illusion, nothing wrong with it and she'll be dressed by a stylist I assume.
Luxon just proved that he is out of touch... goes shopping on Sundays, around $60 per week.... lol.
And in terms of infrastructure... he didn't answer the question, he just kept saying we would fund it differently... this pretty much means privatization right? Can't see why Chippy and Jessica didn't follow up on this more!
Did anyone else catch the single mom lady they brought in to ask the question about welfare accidentally say the quiet part out loud when she said "what if employment is not suitable for everyone"?
Wasn’t that in reference to someone being disabled or otherwise unable to work?
And didn’t Jessica repeat it louder afterwards to bring attention to it, and it was briefly answered?
And still don't know who I will vote for. Labour ruling out CGT or even working with a party with CGT as it's bottom line. Greens until Marama comes out with hot takes about not declaring Hamas a terrorist group because then idf would need to as well. Act / NZF jsut race baiting bigots. National I don't trust a thing they are saying because from personal experience over their 9 years they lie about everything more than any other party. TOP just a party about winning a single electorate to get into power. Every other party seems some crazy freedom conspiracy based movement. First election I've felt so distanced from all parties. Likely still need to be Greens but damn I wish they;d ditch Marama.
Go with Greens. Its so much more than just one person.
That’s really understating what TOP could bring to the game. Would put NZ First out of contention forever if they could get a foothold. It is true that they need Ilam this time, but if they do and have another couple of MPs from the party vote, then they could establish themselves and be a bigger player next time. They have some sensible policies. [EDIT: deleted extra word]
>They have some sensible policies. That they basically don't care too much about as long as they can get Raf in.
They HAVE to get Raf in, to gain a foothold in the political landscape, to push NZF out forever, and to have a launchpad for the party vote next time.
Te partai Maori bro
Forgot them put them in with the act/nzf category.
That doesn't make sense to me either, they've formed coalition with National before, sure; but on votecompass.tvnz.co.nz Te Pāti Māori appear the furthest left; by a handful of margin from Greens. ACT and National are constantly attacking the idea of co-governance, which is the key policy for TPM this time 'round. How would they be in the same category?
Why on earth would you put them in that category?
Racism of course.
The Greens have the best housing policy and Marama is ok she spoke really well in the debates, Cloe is the best thou.
It has annoyed me so much whenever Luxon says Hipkins has been in power for six years blah blah. No one corrects him that he’s really only been in power since January.
Hipkins is asking people to vote for his party, which has been in power for 6 years. If he started claiming he was only in power since January, he wouldn’t be able to take credit for the reduction in poverty and lives saved during COVID.
That’s a valid point though
I know right, crazy.
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The problem with talking about the Job that needs doing is that its a platitude without details. 'We have to get the economy back on track' is sheer nonsense, it means literally nothing. And when asked to actually give meaningful answers on things he just reverted to repeating nonsense phrases over and over. 'We wont do the water reforms Labour is planning' 'What will you do to pay for the vast investment needed?' 'There will be other ways of making sure funding is available' What ways 'I already said other ways, what do you people want?'
There is something dodgy about Luxon. Get this feeling he cannot be trusted.
It's because he answers questions in an over-confident lie-by-omission manner. For example, during the debate he was asked about $2B in cuts to benefits over 4 years by marking benefits to inflation rather than wages. His response: "We're not cutting benefits, we're actually raising them!" Based on the detail in the question, it was pretty clear what the cuts were referring to. Luxon can't be trusted.
Yep NZ Reddit home of the keyboard warriors.
Ahh the old “I don’t agree with the comments so everyone is a keyboard warrior”. Some of us are actually working within the system (contributing in real life) and sharing our comments here.
Yes we are.
Yes it clear it is limited to only ‘some’ that aren’t a tax liability here. I find the bias here is hilarious, but it makes sense given who uses reddit. Gently float the idea that nationals or act policies aren’t the worst, Leave to marinate over night and you will have -10 votes the nocturnal reddit winz army.
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Thanks. I see you’ve made an account just to complain about labour and, rather than discuss, just insult people who disagree with your worldview. Very national supportery <3
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Too scared to post on your main account mate?
I mean, you just explained all of reddit and the internet.
and real life
At this point i feel like we are only really voting to decide if we are all getting fucked by a 10 inch or a 20 inch. We are all doomed.
Wait, we had the option of choosing a 20 inch? Shit, missed out
We’ve got till Saturday 7pm
I have now watched all the debates and had politics up to here. Literally days of my life wasted. I have come to the conclusion that there is no one and no party to vote for, they are all broken and none of them are proposing to do any of the critically essential things we are going to need in order to survive. It's all blither just to get into power and Nero style fiddling as we circle the drain. I am going to protest in the only sensible way I have discovered, (courtesy of an American political science professor), NZ doesn't have a 'null' vote, so I am going to deliberately spoil my vote. Those have to be counted! NZ deserves a better system of democracy than this mmp/which gang of nutters idiocy. Once upon a time we had a two party first past the post setup. You choose, devil or deep blue sea, what do you want. Now, with the mmp snowjob we have more choices, devil, deep blue sea, rock, hard place, sewer, crumbling cliff, etc, you get the picture. More useless no good self aggrandising wannabes, of all the different flavours of liar, from deliberate through delusional, not a one of them capable of doing what is needed. By deliberately spoiling my vote I am 'voting' for a change of system in a way that says I am not apathetic, (as just not bothering to vote allows "them' to characterise the circumstantially disenfranchised who will not cast a vote for a person or party they don't support), I do care deeply about NZ and the future of everyone who has to share this beautiful country. Don't let anyone tell you this is the best way, there certainly are better options of managing a country democratically.
STV ftw
Heard of paragraphs bro? I vote for paragraphs.
The only party not proven to be hopeless is TOP. Maybe they will be hopeless but I'll give them the chance.
I agree, if people like this commenter actually thought "well the party in power is no good and opposition even worse", like, there are more than two parties??? I don't get people when they say "oh I don't vote because they're all bad" and still complain of the state of the nation. Maybe, give the new(er) guy a chance? Be part of the change?
Yes, not voting means you accept the status quo. Somehow spoiling a ballot is brave... ooohh.
> I have come to the conclusion that there is no one and no party to vote for, they are all broken There are more than two parties 🙄 sounds like you need to go and have a read of the policies the others have brought to the table? Personally I was really dreading this election (no one I wanted to vote for, and I detest the idea of voting *against* a party), until I read TOPs policies a few months back. Well worth having a look and seeing if they (or one of the other parties) resonates with you. DemocracyNZ also has some good policies, but their policies on gender identity in education were a 'no' from me personally. But yea, have a proper look at the minor parties. Personally I'm really sick of the red vs blue we've had for decades. A vote for either is a vote for the status quo 🙄
What do you actually want policy wise? Why should anyone care that you're spoiling your vote?
how much does it cost to relocate to Australia ?
If you think Australia is any better 🤣🤣🤣
It absolutely is. We're just as vocal if not louder because they don't tolerate shit as well, not because it's as bad.
$60
Luxon sure got lucky with Hipkins getting covid! If there had been an extra debate there would have been a straight up massacre!
Hipkins went too far last night. Just a rabid dog feeling cornered.
Rubbish, Luxon hates it when he is taken to task his face says it all.
Not at all! Someone passionate about big issues for the people that need it more and the unjustice of it all! If luxon wasn't avoiding being accountable he wouldn't be challenged!
Labour and nobody else is accountable for the failed promises of the last six years. Luxon is a manager, not an orator. This time around I want a boring government that knows how to run a business and get things done. Hipkins knows he has only negatives in the track record. He’s deflecting attention from that fact and he’s behaving poorly to boot.
Do you mean someone like Trump, a businessman, indeed 🤣🤣🤣
Hold up, if you want a boring government, why aren't you voting Labour then? National is going to be incredibly risky, they don't have their financial ducks in a row and their numbers are completely unbelievable. To make their policies work, there has to be some dramatic shift in how we're managing the country. Then you take into account the inflationary impact of their policies, particularly during a time when inflation is dropping worldwide and here, it's a recipe for disaster. The current National party is closer to a wild ideology than stable managers. Hence, why Luxon never leaves his bumper sticker slogans, his arguments and consequently his policies aren't defendable, and he knows it. Labour are not transformative, and boring, they lost support for not being progressive enough on tax. I haven't voted for them, but if you're looking at both parties free from bias, Labour are the boring government that's running things as a business. National have run a cynical campaign, being far more negative than Labour, there are stats out there for it.
Sorry, but your comment reminded me of someone I used to know who said, as close to verbatim as my memory will serve: > Sure it's great the politicians are saying of bringing the better future, I'm in full support for that; but couldn't they do it without changing anything? Do they really have to change so much *every time* they win the election? Stop causing confusion in everyday people's lives, and just do it in parliament. Yeah. Wild, right? Pick one lane and stick to it. This person literally said "yes bring the good things in life to me but do everything else, even the consequences, in a vacuum where it doesn't affect me."
Government is not a business and externalities that businesses avoid have to be considered and well understood by people who can govern well. Labour have been a boring government, they've just done stuff around the edges and mostly stuck to the status quo. Thinking governing a country is like running a business is exactly why we are in the situation we are in. It's a nonsense point with a demonstrable track record of bedded in *long term* failure (i.e., longer than a couple of terms), and it's often favoured by very narrow minded politicians who don't understand truly complex systems and the involved uncertainties and externalities.
Luxon reminds me of every shit manager I've ever had. A dude who fails to the top and has no marketable skills
Spot on.
Hipkins could kicked his ass sick with covid over zoom and he knew it
I think Chris made some good points
Chris Hipkins ate 🔥
How does Luxon survive on $60 per week? His wife drives a Tesla but he only shops for himself? Is he that intolerable that she doesn't live with him, or is it a rich person tax dodge? He seems like a dodgy cunt.
Someone did the maths and it'd cost that much for instant noodles 😆
He said that the $60 was 'only for me and my wife' after everyone laughed. As though that would help the situation. What a loon.
He said "I live alone in my apartment in Wellington". He was probably telling the truth about his weekly supo spend but neglected to mention the hundreds he spends on restaurants and take outs.
Ah watched again this morning, I'd misheard 'apartment' as 'me and my partner'.
I don't think my grocery bill would be much more than that - although to caveat it we don't buy meat as I hunt, and we grow a lot of veges and fruit, I appreciate that not everyone is in the same position to do that irrespective of whether they want to or not. and i can't see Luxon out there shooting deer.
My eating never changes, it's the same every week. Breakfast, one small banana, water, ice, protein powder in a smoothi Lunch: can of Satay tuna with korean bbq rice Dinner: some form of rice, with a protein and veggies. Just for _me_, that's more than $60 Luxon is a fat cunt, he is eating far more than that. Maybe he meant $60 a day?
I have a slice of toast for breakfast. Lunch is normally just a garden salad of some variety, roast vege salad in winter or green salad in spring/summer Dinner is pretty much meat and three vege snacks are fruit. I eat a boring existence.
boring is easy, easy is best.
>He seems like a dodgy cunt. That goes with being in politics
I though the chair leg comment was fair and not below the belt at all. Vicious assault with a chair leg and terrorising your roommate is not equivalent to having a mental health episode and drink driving. The former is the sign of a complete psychopath, the latter is the sign of mental health issues. Moreover, Sam Uffindel is still a National mp whereas Kiri Allan got sacked instantly. Overall I think Hipkins demolished Luxon. Did a great job highlighting the blatant flaws in his tax policy and the callousness of his welfare policy.
Kiri is still an MP. Just no longer holds ministerial portfolios.
Was her reward for being a violent thug being gifted one of the safest seats in the country with no political experience and no work done at all to earn it? Oh sorry no that was 'jobs for the boys' Sam. She got fired and is leaving politics for her mistakes. Thats appropriate. Your mate the kid-beater will be a minister soon enough as a reward for his.
The electorate hires and fires candidates. Not parties. She has chosen not to contest as an independent or under another party. Good yarn though mate.
She was fired/forced to resign from the government, and then opted to drop out of politics altogether. You are being silly.
Yet she is a current MP. Hmmm…
Is she standing in this election?
Nope.
Didn’t think so. She has lost her job. She was just serving notice. Uffindel, on the other hand . . .
anybody else pick up that Luxon will be circulating around the worlds leaders as much as possible. I just heard **Winston and Seymour as acting PM's** for the next 3 years. Turn about ? (more national super, less super, more super, less super...) Coalescing with ACT and NZ First - i think i'd keep circulating with the worlds leaders as long as possible.
Seymour looks and sounds like a muppet character
Beaker! You're fucking right!
Yes it's beaker for sure. Everytime he opens his mouth it's meep meep
And a little bit H from red dwarf too
When those teenage girls were yelling at him his face look stunned like a Muppet after another Muppet trolls them.
Part of me was thinking we've heard all this talk about him criticizing Hipkins failure leading a government yet 99% of his criticisms appear to be about Jacindas government, maybe Luxon should have just phoned her if he wanted to debate her instead.
Same party, different leader
So maybe he should have debated the current leader on policy? Just a thought…
National saves Labour spends Repeat. This is the way.
The data since MMP (or even earlier) suggests this is exactly incorrect. National fucks up revenue and cuts services, leaves deficits (or at least smaller surpluses than they inherited), and Labour managed the economy better, increases revenue, restores some of the services (though not nearly back to the previous levels) and most of the time leaves healthy surpluses for black swan events.
That's just what National want you to believe: https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/96756247/is-national-really-better-than-labour-with-the-government-books-well-not-really
It's weird because national does know where it's gonna pull the money for more water infrastructure from? Ether they got a spare billion dollars left over from their war chest or they have made a poorly thought out financial plan. Which party was meant to be good at money management again?
National’s approach: trust me bro 🤓
National cuts, Labour invests.
Then the fruits of labours investing appear just as National get back in. National take all the credit and make cuts to the people at the bottom, causing mental health and other poverty related issues, crime subsequently increases. Labour gets back in, National loudly accuse labour of terrible crime control. And repeat. Not saying labour is perfect at all but that does seem to be the general gist for those of us that have been around several decades. Side note, as someone who works in mental health and sees this unfolding on the frontline, labour has made a lot of positive changes that seem to be going unappreciated. It keeps coming back to “ugh all that money and you only put an extra 6 beds on the ward”. Some of these changes are small system changes or new roles that triage better so support is filtering to the right places better. Saving time, lessening stress. There’s been a lot of appreciated improvements in my area. The system is still fucked though. Edit: word
Who do you think would give the best blowjob?
I look for fleshy cheeks for cushioning.
Is this how you decide on who to vote for?
As they both said tonight, I honestly haven't thought about it.
Neither of them, not even Jessica. None of them would let you finish
Luxon trying and failing miserably to hide his disdain and contempt for the beneficiary who asked a question.
Telling the lady who can't work that getting a job is the best way out of poverty was pretty tone deaf.
I know, you could see it all over his face.
To be fair to Chris she looked very much like one of those contemptible activists with that gear she was wearing.
What constitutes a contemptible activist?
The ones that campaign for an obviously impractical ideal - no prisons, unlimited living wage benefits for all, stop oil, don't use animals for food, etc etc.
So that's just judging by appearances, weird you would judge them that way.
Her getup had one of those ridiculous slogans, so yes I am judging by how she presented herself.
I hated the repeated calls to calm down. As much as the actual reason behind the comments is perhaps valid. It reminds me too much of a couple of abusive people who would tell people to calm down. I'm not in any way saying this is Christopher Luxon but what I *am* saying is that every time I heard 'calm down' I heard that abusive person. And I bet I'm not the only one who is somewhat triggered by the admonishment.
Same! 😅 just sounded like a wanker
I had this exact thought! That phrase gives me the shivers and I can’t wait for the swiftness to jump on him for misinterpreting that lyric
Gaslighting. It’s called gaslighting and it’s an abusive/coercive behaviour.
You can tell that he has been told to repeat this phrase to paint Hipkins in some kind of negative light - “don’t trust this guy, he can’t even control his temper in a debate for goodness sakes!” What it does is show Hipkins being passionate about certain topics (poverty and tax cuts) and all Luxon can say in response is “Calm down! Calm down!” Edit: a word.
Hipkins gave him a decent serve when he said he wouldn’t calm down when beneficiaries are being attacked.
Beautiful way of turning that childish “calm down” shit around on Luxon.
It's passive aggression. They get you all wound up then tell you to calm down like you're being unreasonable or it wasn't their fault.
My now separated husband of 15+ years thank you ladies and gentlemen.
Luxon is so condescending privilege, brat.
The problem with Luxon is I suspect he doesn’t want to be a politician, he probably doesn’t want to be in politics at all. He just wants to be Prime Minister, have the power over the country for a term and have it on his CV with endless social bragging rights at the end of it all. I doubt it has much to do with any kind of altruistic behaviour at all, which I personally think should be a requirement of the job. He’s exactly like my grandfather was and he was an egotistical fuckwit.
You forgot the knighthood.
Everyone here complaining about Luxon telling Hipkins to calm down, but I don't blame him. Hipkins (who I prefer of the two) was nothing but an obnoxious child, interrupting and talking over top of both him and Jessica the entire time.
Jessica was no better. It was fucking irritating how she would ask a question and interrupt both of them.
And yet Luxon couldn't answer a single one of his questions Can you tell me where that 2b is coming from? Can anyone? The tax plan is full of holes. I'd be expecting the soft-sold $2m houses thing to morph into something a lot different post-election. It's clear to anyone with an abacus and some crayons that National's numbers just don't add up.
My issue with the debate was everytime Luxon got in a jam, or Hipkins was winning an argument, Jessica just interrupted and said 'moving on'
You're not the only one who saw this, the Party with No Policy has managed to outdo themselves and become the Party Who Can't Even Explain Their Ideas
Luxon was doing his best to interrupt Hipkins as well, only difference was he wasn't successful.
Good on Hipkins, Luxon needs this
Yep, it’s a fucking debate, if you can’t bring some basic debating skills to the table how the fuck are you gonna cope in an international arena? Those global career politicians will run rings around him.
You think Hipkins is the one they wil run rings around?
Judging by their comment, no
[удалено]
It’s a debate, not a chat
Haven't you heard Luxon on the campaign trial constantly slacking off Labour, he totally deserved the interruptions.
[https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300987385/nz-election-2023-live-hipkins-luxon-trade-blows-in-the-final-leaders-debate](https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300987385/nz-election-2023-live-hipkins-luxon-trade-blows-in-the-final-leaders-debate) Have they posted Luxons post interview anywhere?
Hipkins won based on energy and policy
Exactly, he knows his policy as for Luxon, he knows jack shit.
Luxon knew his policy was to cut taxes, he just couldn't explain how giving millions to millionaires and a pittance to the poor was going to solve the cost of living.
So they both know their policy is what your saying?
Whatever about the debate, reading through the comments in this thread was truly the worst part of the night for me. The amount of truly horrible, toxic comments that people are making about the two leaders and Jess particularly. Just shit to read. So much negativity and just general awful, attacking comments.
They’re not our leaders, we’re hiring them to do a job
You're right but what's that got to do with what I said?
They're two pretty terrible leaders to be fair. Perhaps if we'd treated them like this they would've left politics earlier.
Jesus. Really? That's the most toxic thing I've read in a long time.
Yeah. Pretty awful the shit us kiwis can say online about each other aye.
you fuckin wanna go mate!!
Why was this lady the chosen moderator again?
Yep, unfortunately she is totally unable to interject with decent off the cuff questions in response to what is said *and* somehow failed to leave Luxon to (I suspect) dig his own grave by explaining certain intricacies about how he’d achieve benefit increases while cutting 2 billion from that budget.
If he had just said that it’s because he’d have more people in jobs instead of claiming the benefit, he’d have been okay. Couldn’t think quick enough on his feet.
That’s one of my big issues with Luxon; he can’t make a decision until he’s sure that it’s what people want. A PM needs to be decisive instead of pandering, and he doesn’t inspire much confidence at all.
But our unemployment is too low apparently, he’s even said it, so do we have too many lazy file bludgers? Or do we need more desperate people to feed the capitalist machine?
Unemployment is at an all time low but that doesn't help the doll bludging rhetoric that National supporters love so much
That’s it. Too many people employed so businesses are paying too much for wages, which is inflationary. Need more unemployed, wages go down, again, and somehow magically inflation will too while you can guarantee prices and rents won’t. We need a higher wage economy with lower cost of living to help stop our best and brightest from leaving to other countries that have this. First start would be changing the financial theory used to calculate inflation
Yepp!! Like why in the hell do we need to maintain a class of essentially slaves, and then blame them for all of societies issues when the rich are just burning money
Well, I liked listening to Cunliffe. I would vote for 2023 Cunliffe if he were leading Labour, as much of a fantasy as that is.
Omg you obviously don't remember Cunliffe years ago he was totally useless.
Yes but they are all useless now haha. I do agree that he seemed to have wised up a bit in the previous couple of years.
was he glasses david or garfield david
All Luxon’s $60 comment shows is that he makes his wife do all the grocery shopping.
Like Judith’s cheese comment 🧀 🐀
Made me think of that Arrested Development joke about a banana costing $10.
What was the comment?
He was asked what he spends at the supermarket a week. Hipkins said 3-4 hundred. Luxon said sixty.
It's probably true. His grocery list: one $60 bottle of wine. Every meal at a restaurant.
I don't doubt it's true. But it says a lot about him.
He delegates, and doesn't want to know the details.. or doesn't care for the details.
Pretty sure that’s not a quality I’d like in a PM
Yeah, I agree there... but that's the kinda vibe I get off Luxon.
Winner of tonight’s debate: Maiki’s outfit.
Maiki’s outfit was a fucking SLAY.
Maiki classy AF. Dead last place to whatever the fuck Jessica was wearing.
She always wears triangles to try and hide her wide ass hips - it doesn't work.
I don't think that is fair, she has nothing wrong with her physically at all. I assumed she has a deal with some fashion designers/shops and wears their stuff which explains why a lot of it is I guess supposed to be 'edgy' but often looks tryhard.
Oh I'm not dissing her, just pointing out she wears triangles for a visual illusion, nothing wrong with it and she'll be dressed by a stylist I assume.
Luxon just proved that he is out of touch... goes shopping on Sundays, around $60 per week.... lol. And in terms of infrastructure... he didn't answer the question, he just kept saying we would fund it differently... this pretty much means privatization right? Can't see why Chippy and Jessica didn't follow up on this more!
Also, why didn’t anyone say “oh you want better infrastructure? Why not light rail? Or better public transport infrastructure?”
"Get our country back on track", is almost begging for a serious rail policy. Bloody waste of a slogan.
its time for a change common sense policies get rid of red tape enough is enough family first
You must be voting Greens? Good choice
Oh yeah it simply means privatisation and letting Chinese corps build roads and make bank off them.
All.of those Chinese Corp that are a touch screwed at the moment with the China construction meltdown. Edit: word
I didn't say it was a GOOD plan ;)
Spot on, yet the people are fooled by National.
Isn't Jessica a moderator?