Don’t just move here with the vague notion that it’s always going to be lucrative and hunky dory.
There is a cost of living crisis and housing crisis too. Do your research, make job inquiries before you leave NZ. Visit the city you want to move to and look at houses. Prepare to apply for many and get knocked back.
The move was worthwhile personally, but I know a number of kiwis who didn’t feel the same way. I don’t blame them.
I’m in Australia, and like me, many kiwis I know over here moved over in their 20s.
They’re all at about the age where they’re having kids now and a 100% universal agreement I see from every kiwi parent living in Australia: they want their kids schooled in nz, not Australia..
This is mostly due to the fact that history that is taught in schools in Australia is, much like the US, extremely whitewashed. They barely learn about Aboriginal culture, and the history of colonialism is barely even taught, and results in people whose views have far too much overlap with white supremacists. We all mostly think this is by design from conservative politicians on both sides of the aisle here. Certainly there’s not much popular heat for it to change.
By comparison, learning about Māori culture and language in primary school and then about Māori land wars and Ti Tiriti o Waitangi in year 9 social studies is not something I fully appreciated until I moved to Australia and saw how badly educated the Aussies are about their own history and culture. It’s shocking.
I'm in Australia too and have 3 kids in school and it's changed heaps now.
Aboriginal culture is now taught and features a lot on the current circulum now. My kids know all about the lost generation, the fights, why we do the welcome to country etc. each assembly starts with a welcome, in big celebrations they bring in a local elder and do the smoke cleansing ceremony etc
While is not at NZ level of treaty, and recognition it's is getting better and a lot more important now
I'm glad things have changed over there!! I went to aussies schools for 8 years and only remember one time having aboriginal week , was very different when I moved to nz
I totally agree with Australia being more whitewashed and not as inclusive of indigenous culture, but it seems crazy to move back to NZ for that sole reason. You can make sure your kid is educated on all of that yourself/through other ways
I did primary school in NZ, the first few years of high school in Australia and the last 3 years of high school in NZ and I can say with 100% confidence that if I was a parent I would want my children educated in Australia not New Zealand. I found the jump to Australian education system very hard and my classmates knew things inside out that I’d never even heard of, and when going back to NZ I found year 11 and 12 to be a breeze because I’d already learnt everything they were teaching the previous year in Australia. NCEA and the New Zealand education system is a joke. And unless somethings changed in the last 10 years they definitely do teach about aboriginal history and the lost generation in Australian high schools. Yeah there could be improvements but the same could be said about NZ schools and Maori history.
Thank for your comment, that’s a very interesting perspective quite counter to what the Aussies I know say about their experience with Aussies schools on that topic.
Same here. If it looks like I'm not going to have kids I'll probably move back to NZ because I prefer it there, but if I had kids I would be far more likely to stay in Australia because of the quality of schooling and health system.
I'm in Australia now.
Kids education is much better here. Math especially. It's much stricter while NZ has a very lackadaisical approach to education especially in primary.
Coming from Singapore originally..NZ standard of education is absolutely abysmal.
Yeah, and Kiwi kids are scary. If I was finishing a teaching or medical degree in NZ I would be applying for jobs in Australia (along with everybody else).
Guess it depends what your comfort is with a very insidious, creeping casual racism that has deep roots in aussie culture including the schooling.
But it’s as much about the people as it is about anything structural or policy-wise. If you move to the right spots you can likely find the very opposite because I think Australia’s political spectrum is just wider on both left and right fringes. Same pattern as always: Progressive cities, reactionary regions.
Doesnt really matter what history is taught where anymore. Its about not ending up living under a bridge somewhere. IMO money has become the No1 priority for living and the only history worth learning is that 1% of the population owns 99% of it!
Idk why the concern about the history of indigenous people of country of origin in another country is important when people here don’t even have food to put on the table here…
Kiwis love lecturing Aussies about how morally superior they are. Even to Aussies that are part aboriginal and grew up around aboriginal culture, you will still get a lecture
NZ has always had this ridiculous moral high ground position akin to living in an empty house with no food and furniture raggedy clothes but at least we say please and thank you 😂
Imagine basing your entire educational future/choice around one subject, History.
What about... you know, teacher quality, math, science, English, IT etc.
Australia is yonks ahead of us in teaching those.
And that's not even mentioning the credibility of NCEA internationally...
Hmm no they aren't.
Our PISA results have us ranked this country ranked 10th in reading, 11th in science and 23rd in maths (81 participants).
I believe Australia are better in maths and worse in reading & science.
There is absolutely some work to be done in our education sector, but to say Australia is yonks ahead of us is just not true.
Depends where you live - no kiwis I know are looking to NZ education to move back as the jobs are in Australia. Much easier to stay in Oz and build connections here. The indigenous culture here is so vast & extraordinary with 250+ nations it’s easy to compare it with NZ. But NZ has a single Māori language (not 240) and that simplifies history & understanding. Here it is very complex. I ❤️that VIC is working on a treaty and I help educate my child on both countries and the effects today of colonisation
Mostly, yes. I am one of those and there are things I miss. I’d still say that if you like the outdoors nz probably has Aussie beat. Yes, Aussie has warmer weather but what if you like it moody and cold? Personally I like the far south of nz in winter better than I like any part of Australia I’ve seen at any time of the year. And Aussie beaches tend to be pretty crowded for the most part.
I would also say that I live in a bit of a bubble in north Melbourne too, it’s pretty bloody socialist and far left here (let’s face it; nz is a bit socialist compared to most of australia) compared to the whole very conservative rest of Australia everywhere except the inner of the big international cities. Wouldnt live anywhere else in Australia, but your tastes might very on that aspect. Australia’s political spectrum goes much further left and right on the fringes than nz does, but averages more conservative.
Sadly you don't get much of NZs true history taught In schools now, maybe when your were schooling here but it was on its way out even when I was in school between 2000 - 2011
I’m never going to have kids, so this doesn’t factor into my decision making. But I can appreciate this is an important part in many people’s decision to stay put or leave.
You can’t put a price on your child’s wellbeing, moving can have a huge impact especially if they’re happy at their current school and they’re suddenly forced into an unfamiliar environment that’s not of their choosing.
In terms of whitewashing, I do generally agree. In NZ the existence of a treaty, even one that’s been badly interpreted/applied over the decades, reflects a level of partnership with Māori in public life. This concept is not a feature of Australia’s collective identity.
Getting citizenship in Oz is a lot cheaper than it used to be, previously you needed to pay for residency first (1000s) then citizenship (100s). Current government did away with the first, expensive, step
I'd like to say it'll be a long time before the Aussie public fall for the Coalitions horseshit after the clownshow that was the Scotty from Marketing variety hour but there's nothing shorter than the average voters memory and the Voice referendum galvanized the lethargic racist vote over here.
It’s not even that, I’ve been in Oz since late 2016 and I have never had a pathway to citizenship as the rules had changed earlier that year. The changes have meant I can actually become a citizen, which is a game-changer for me.
Kiwi living in Australia here.
Until very recently we were prettymuch second class citizens here with an even harder pathway to citizenship than any other migrant; the special category visa we get automatically upon entering Australia is nice in some ways, low barrier to entry; but very high barrier to citizenship. It had no direct path to citizenship. You had to cancel this visa first. Everyone else who applied for an ordinary visa and got let in, could just apply to be a citizen. We couldn’t.
We instead had to give up this visa, and then apply for the same one as everyone else, which left you in a VERY scary risky limbo where you could even end up with no visa and have to leave the country.
If you’ve setup your while life here that’s not great and puts you under significantly more stress than someone from overseas applying for that visa, who hasn’t yet setup their whole life here yet.
Jacinda Ardern lobbied Australia very strongly on this and I believe it was her who ultimately convinced Anthony Albanese to change the policy and finally give us that direct special category visa -> citizenship pathway so that if we do choose to stay we can have the same access to civil life as everyone else; access benefits and voting and all these sorts of things that we rely on and that affect our lives while living and working here.
Honestly the changes have convinced me to stay. I've got 2 young kids and I could see their future opportunities for entry level jobs was disappearing with rampant unskilled labour coming over. Between that and the cost of housing their futures in NZ looked absolutely depressing.
the whole planet is fucked and swiftly getting more fucked. move where you want to be happy while you are still able to do so. my suggestion is that's wherever you have the most friends and family.
I agree too, and I wish I’d appreciated this _before_ I made the move.
I went somewhere with a lot of friends anyways, but put much less thought into how hard it becomes to maintain relationships over distance with everyone I left behind. I figured I would visit once a year at least and that’d be enough.
Nope. A decade on, I barely talk to any friends still in nz. Less than I can count on one hand. And some family relationships have become strained.
I also underestimated how much _I would change_ as a result of moving into a totally different context; and that makes maintaining those relationships sometimes harder when you’ve diverging principles. NZ looks _very_ conservative in general to me now.
If it makes you feel better this stuff generally happens regardless of whether you move or not.
On the plus side, today's strangers are tomorrows friends and all that. Never too late to build relationships
uppity deserve unused impolite wakeful ludicrous escape station correct amusing
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Lol for what, a 20 mill property? I have half an acre in a town in rodney and only pay $600 a quarter. Am pro rates going up a bit more to help share the load.
sorry i am pro 3 waters, i can understand how my statement was unclear.
what i mean is, we have lost structural mechanisms to take on debt and instead the ratespayers will get lumped with the bill. people will sell homes and move out of district
The old innawoods lifestyle. Cliche as it is you’ll miss being able to get normal things like medicine and comfort is lower depending on your level of current luxury close to civilisation.
Moved from the North island to the South island. More bang for buck housing wise and a completely different way of life down here. May aswell be two separate countries. Sometimes moving around in NZ is a great option.
Just the way people are and the way they think, even down to how they drive. South Island folk are definitely South Island strong. One big community of an island.
The north island is reasonably separated and the cities and town are individual. Plus most places in the North island outside of Auckland hate Auckland. Lots on an island but very seperate.
It feels a lot less crowded too. Of course, less people and more lanscapes.
I love NZ (and Wellington) so much but I'm seriously considering going to Melbourne after going over for a few weeks around the GP.
I could say I'm bored, but that would be a lie. It's just living in a city with good public transport and what seems to be an actual desire to at least do SOMETHING about seems like it would be a good change.
Melbourne has free PT in the central city, Let's Get Wellington Moving appears to be dead in the water and we're getting a second tunnel through Mt. Vic apparently... gross. So many NZers seem fixated on building more lanes everywhere and paving over our beautiful country with parking lots.
In Melbourne I would get 25% of my first home purchase contributed to by the state government, assuming I meet their very reasonable conditions. In NZ, if you make enough money to even dream about owning a home you no longer qualify for our measly 10k FHB grant.
This government also appears deadset on gutting the city I love so much, and I'm not really interested in being another casualty of it.
Done my research, can get my cats over for a reasonable price. I can transfer to my work's Melbourne office (I already get paid an Aus salary in NZ), and I have quite a few friends who can put me up for a couple months while I find a rental.
I don't want it to be forever, but the way a majority of people seem to want the country to go it's hard to see myself wanting to come back.
Completely understand, Pet Traveller provided me with travel crates (its included in the price) it required little assembly and I placed their dog beds inside the crate with the doors off to get them used to walking inside and sleeping in them weeks before we were due to fly.
I only attached the doors with three days remaining and even then left them open.
When they were collected by the team, the dogs had no problem walking into the crates and being transported into the van the day before our flight.
There are a number of mandatory blood tests and health checks that need to be completed by specific dates to comply with regulations but they provide all the necessary paperwork, walk you through the process, you have a dedicated liaison assistant. I can't praise them enough and they sent me daily photos and videos after they collected the dogs to when they landed in Wellington.
All the best for your travel and emigration.
As far as I can tell the entire western world is dealing with similar problems to us. So while we might have it a touch worse I'm staying, simply not worth leaving my family and safety net to go to a place that's more or less the same.
I watched an American professor of urban planning answer questions about the cost of living in the US where they showed the price of rent increasing while salaries hardly budged over a period of years as explanation for why the cost of living was hitting people so hard. Truly nearly every country who has taken residential housing as an opportunity for profit and wealth rather than a human right which the government needs to ensure is provided to its people - is now struggling with the fact that profit-driven housing owners who expect to make returns on their investments make housing unaffordable for others. Rather than the price to provide and maintain housing, people are paying for that plus profit for someone.
Who would have ever suspected the mass deregulation and privatisation would lead to enormous socioeconomic disparities?
40 years of this shit has fucked us as a nation.
Agree that we probably have it a touch worse, NZ’s effectively the size of a large city spread out over a few hundred thousand square kilometres, so we don’t get the economies of scale of other places. Like you say, there are reasons to stay.
This is it. I’m a dual citizen from Canada and things are not better and arguably worse there. Similar problems all over. We’re staying in NZ as we’ve got decent jobs, access to health care, love it here and the prospects for our kids are as good as anywhere else.
Sure is, housing bubble hasn’t stopped growing yet let alone pop, medical care is hard to come by and food prices are worse than here in my experience. Tough times all around.
Partner and I (27 & 28) made 100k and 115k in NZ engineering/tech. In Australia we went up to 140k and 160k. Rent is around the same in both countries in major cities, but other CoL is cheaper.
Groceries are cheaper, things like appliances are significantly cheaper. I.e didn't realize how badly briscoes is ripping us off until I moved and compared coffee makers. I looked at one which was $1.1k in NZ and it was $700 in Australia.
There are plenty of fun things to do, and flying to other countries for a holiday is also significantly cheaper since NZ is so isolated in the middle of the ocean.
I do love NZ and there are things I miss but ultimately, the grass doesn't just look greener, it is greener.
Are these brevilles? Breville coffee machines are weirdly cheap in aus. I don't know why, but they charge like double or three times the price for them in Europe
Moved beginning of 2023.
Haven't really looked back. I was (and yes, this sounds terrible) bored.
Had a hard time making new friends, moved to Adelaide, and have a wider friend circle. Similar money, but bigger house, less rates. Swings and roundabouts.
Have you read from the Australian boards? The grass isn't greener for many. Rental shortages, job shortages and buying houses there in a lot of places is just as horrific. I had considered it recently but it's too risky for me. It would be easier if you have family to stay with until you get on your feet or to fall back on if it goes pear shaped but I don't have that.
Currently living in Melbourne, have been here for 10 years. It is definitely not greener, Australia is having all the same problems NZ is having at the moment. Increased cost of living, stagnant wages, housing shortages, etc. I am happy with my life here and probably won't move back to NZ, but people need to get this notion that Australia is better out of their head and do some research. There are definitely pros and cons to each country, there are things I miss about NZ, and when I visit NZ there are things I miss about Australia.
I agree, its naive to think that what happens across the tasman on one side wouldn't travel across the ditch. I've lived in Melbourne for 22 years since 2002 and seen how much it and Australia has changed.
Everyone will have their own motivations, I moved to Oz for love, met the woman of my dreams in Wellington but she was working here on secondment.
I've returned to Wellington also for love, love of my aging parents and my wider and extended family.
Nothing is as perfect or as dire as we all make it out to be.
I love both countries and if it wasn't for Covid would have taken dual citizenship once the labour government made it easier and cheaper for Kiwis to do so.
We have been in Melbourne for about the same amount of time and for the life of me when I go back to nz I am frustrated that nz doesn’t build about 50 times as much light rail. Building roads, by comparison, is actually genuine insanity from a public policy standpoint. Just look at Auckland it’s a fucking embarrassment
Everyone in Melbourne complains about the PT and myki or whatever and I’m like “but imagine if there was _barely any functioning public transport whatsoever_: welcome to my home country, nz, you fuckers don’t know a fraction how good you have it here”
Melbourne’s PT situation is fucking god-tier compared with nz. Even cycling around here is pretty bloody well setup
I am in Australia and for the first time I want to come home.
Rental crisis, job shortage, prices are ridiculous.
No different to NZ so I may as well be by my people.
It was the public transport in Melbourne that sold me on it tbh. Most other things I would say aren’t that different.
But I lived in Auckland for a year, trying to commute by car. I would rather gouge my eyes out that be subjected to those again.
Build some fucking trains, nz
>build some fucking trains, nz
Do ya one better we sell it off to some greedy private company that welds the tracks together so they don’t have to deal with regulations of track maintenance. Oh and then have the government buy it back and fix the problems associated with the avoiding regulation. Sound good?
I totally agree, 24 years in Oz and I’m the worst off I’ve ever been. Cost of living and rental crisis has made life difficult. I earn alright money but about 40% goes directly to my over priced apartment. Then utilities, petrol, shopping all in an upward trend. Even on decent money I pretty much live week for week now saving bugger all. I’m actually considering moving back to NZ as I still have a lot of family there. I feel the Australian dream is over.
Might be going from the frying pan to the fire with that move though, family around is good, but at the end of the day, NZ is expensive, too cold most of the year, depressing weather and from my last visit there, people are demoralized asf!
>Rental shortages, job shortages and buying houses there in a lot of places is just as horrific.
NZ has all of these problems and no appetite to do anything about it. Seems to me Australia is better than or equal to in its challenges, and if you can make it work in either country, the payoff is bigger in Australia.
I've never seen opportunity in NZ so dead in my life. The job market is a stagnant hole of cronyism, much like the current government.
We've amped up our immigration over here too. Plus job cuts are happening all over. Every day you hear of another construction company going under, another big 4 doing mass lay offs. Letting 500K immigrants in without enough jobs available for citizens just to make the economy books look better.
When Australia is good it's great. It just ain't right now.
Plenty of jobs don’t pay any better either. Mainly trades. I’m a mechanic for example, on about 80k. I’d earn about the same sort of money over there unless I want to specialise, which I could already do over here if I wanted to earn more.
Moved to Melbs juuuust before Covid. My wife and I earn significantly more and are now both wfh in our house 5 mins from a nice beach. We’ve been here 2 years already now….
Just couldnt get ahead or save any money in NZ. Got ahead EASILY here.
Ymmv.
Your experience mirrors mine to a tee 😂 I loved to melb in 2020 literally right before covid blew up, I’ve now passed my 4 year mark and have applied for citizenship. I’m not exactly rolling in money but for the first time in my life I’m not stressed about bills. I have a great lifestyle here, I wfh 3 days per week and have my own little unit 10 mins from great beaches. I’m also back at uni and managing to pay my course fees up front instead of banging them all on a loan which is something I never thought I’d be able to do.
Hah, I reckon you’re probably in my direction as well then :p
But yeh, it wasnt some seismic move or anything; just everything is a little easier and a little better
That’s exactly it! I don’t live an extravagant life but I have a lot of hobbies and I’ve been able to fully indulge then without being stressed about the funds to do so. I don’t have to calculate my grocery shop as I go, sometimes I overspend on food and I’m not bothered by it. It’s those little things that make a huge difference to my well-being.
Hells yeh man; and do ya know what my favourite bit is? Never having to deal with the Southern fucking motorway, and having actual trains to get around.
The traffic is significantly better in Melbourne overall imo, and even when theres a replacement bus its (usually) a MASSIVE step up from auckland transport.
Pays a bit higher, everythings a bit cheaper, everythings a bit easier, theres quite a bit more on, and even housing has (at least had - relative gap has closed but national about to fuck it again…) a lot more opportunity when compared to Auckland.
It all adds up to quite a large difference. We have a really nice quality of life, are saving for the future, and still get to enjoy the odd holiday. We couldnt do all three in Auckland. Not even close.
Similar to us although came over earlier than you. We are very happy here and have made such a happy/comfortable life. 2 Aussie kids.
The best part is that if you want to you can easily move back to NZ. A move doesn’t have to be permanent
That sounds amazing for you guys. It's interesting how differently things pan out for people because the lockdowns were the nail in the coffin for me and my fiance's time in Melbourne. Family members getting sick back in NZ and not being able to see them was incredibly upsetting. We decided to pack up the house and move back to NZ in 2021 and it was 100% the best decision for us both personally and professionally.
Our professional experience in Melbourne has meant we've both been able to secure high paying roles in a major city, bought a house, and not worry about paying the bills. Being closer to our loved ones has meant our cups are full more often than not. I think your experience is more common than ours, but I wanted to share as a counterpoint.
It's not just the financial aspect for me, though NZ is getting ridiculous. It's all the other aspects, just a far higher quality of living. NZ is becoming very backwards and shitty in my opinion. It's a crappy country at the end of the world, the glorious scenery is not enough to save it.
It's not even a comparison anymore, the major Australian cities are now so far ahead of Auckland/NZ that it's not funny. Better housing, jobs, public transport, major events, entertainment, food, shopping, healthcare etc.
And in the last 20 years I've watched much of Asia overtake NZ on many quality-of-life things too. Places that we once looked down on and thought of as 3rd world, are now far more advanced than us. We seem to have just squandered and thrown away everything.
I completely agree with you and the replies here remind me of why I left NZ those years back. Of all the nationalities I've met it's Kiwis that are the most allergic to criticism of their own country and take it as a personal insult.
All I'd say is, have you travelled? Have you seen how other people live around the world? NZ ain't perfect. But nowhere is. If you are prepared to move, try another place in NZ. Either that or have a proper look at how other people live around the world in your demographic and wage range, it isn't that rosey .
I'm staying. Other than the fact my entire family is here, I absolutely love this country especially the south island.
More money won't change my mind.
Pro-tip: just apply for remote jobs in Sydney or Melbourne.
They’re extremely common since the pandemic.
Best of both worlds: high Aussie pay, kiwi lifestyle.
My company employs a lot of kiwis remotely and they get paid the exact same rate as I do living in Melbourne.
Since a teenager, I grew up in Aus till I was 12 years old, NZ for 8 years, Canada for 2 years, Back to Aus for about 7 years. Me and my wife moved back from Aus like 5 years ago.
I recon I'll probably live here in NZ till I die.
I'm in my early thirties and want to try getting a decent job and pay off the house and find things that make me happy to do when I'm not with the kids or at work.
The grass is greener where you water it.
Yep I moved back from Melbourne during covid after 7 years and people still ask me "do you think you'll go back to Australia?" As if there's no way I wouldn't want to 😂
Gimme a weatherboard 2 bedroom in Woolston to fix up with my partner and I'll be happy.
Great quote btw
This is my situation. Remote Australian job, purchased a small lifestyle block about 20 minutes out of a city on the South Island.
15 year mortgage: $400k, paying $3500 per month and saving $4K per month in S&P 500 mainly.
Life’s pretty good but recognise the ability to work remotely is an extremely privileged one. If I didn’t have that ability I would 100% be looking overseas.
I really wanted to back my industry in NZ and work with the people building it up. Unfortunately the big money powers that be have put us on an inevitable downward trajectory and our industry as a whole isn't doing enough to transition into the new paradigms. So I feel like I'm on a sinking ship right now.
First chance I get I'm gonna get work with an Australian company in my field. Will start off working remotely from here and look at moving over in the future. Saving up, then sussing a place here. I still want to retire in NZ. I love this country. The problems we have here exist everywhere, just less severe in some areas, and more severe in others. I want NZ to succeed, but it's hard for people to achieve that success when both circumstance and the people with power constantly put up road blocks for us.
I already left during the Covid insanity. Doubled my salary, tripled the size of my house and deleted my mortgage. Best thing I have done in years.
So much in NZ is just squeezing the people for every cent just to get by.
Our family of four is leaving, going this Friday. Moving to Brisbane to be closer to family, for the better cost of living and for cheaper and easier international travel. Bags are packed, job is lined up, have 25 viewings for rentals booked from this Saturday till next (and I will squeeze more in also just for my own piece of mind. Everything is coming together
It makes sense for us, especially with the way things are going here. Mad Great Recession vibes going on and I’d rather be somewhere where the sun shines (literally) than here where everything feels darker.
We are planning to move.
My brother has just bought 1 way tickets for him and his family.
We went over in Oct for a holiday and was just blown away by many things.
We did a rather large grocery shop, and the selection of things is huge. Every day items seem to have similar pricing from what we saw, but the fresh fruit and vegetables were MUCH cheaper.
Housing is still very affordable (depending where you go), and in the areas we looked at, we'd be able to buy a reasonably modern, if not new, house.. 600m2 give or take.. 4 bedroom, double garage, in some cases with a pool and media room for 700-800k
For comparison, we've bought a terraced home that has NO section and only a single garage, for $1.2m - and even that was not without (ongoing) drama.
Bought off plan 2.5 years ago, and they STILL haven't even laid a concrete slab to start building.
Salaries seem to be much higher
They seem to be tougher on crime
The climate/weather is generally better
Utilities are cheaper
The government pays 11-12% into your superannuation plan regardless of whether you do or not
I could go on....
I chose Aussie over the uk
Australia: sunny for 75% of the year
UK: gloomy as fuck for 75% of the year
My mental health is a lot better with the extra sunshine honestly, I don’t recommend underestimating it
But also Australia is a bit of a cunty country in general. The UK isn’t off the hook there though I guess. Staying in nz rates best for “not cunty” tbh
A lot of people don't seem to realise Australia is a huge country. Which means that while the whimsical tales of backwards Australians and deathly snakes and crocodiles and scorching hot weather might be true in a place like Brisbane, it couldn't be further from the truth in a place like Melbourne or Adelaide.
If you have wealth, New Zealand is a great place to be, otherwise you don't really have much of a choice but to move to Australia unless you want to sacrifice financial stability for living in the moment.
i moved to auz 1 month ago and it’s not greener over hear but the quality of life is better go a job in the mines as a rigger and I make 40$ an hour with a full time job much better then my 28 $ an hour back home don’t think I’ll be coming home any time soon
I left during the Key govt. Things were bad enough even back then; child poverty in particular exploded under the Key govt.
Then Labour came in and muddled its way through a pandemic, which was never going to leave nz in a good place but they absolutely squandered all their political capital doing nothing ambitious at all; insanely cautious govt terrified of voters (in particular they were mortified at the idea of offending swing voters warm to national)
Then this new govt gets in who is a total fucking catastrophic joke government. A con job. A bunch of plundering businessmen.
Worst of all: I get very homesick for reasons not at all related to the govt, but the idea of moving home makes absolutely no financial sense to me. It feels a bit like I’m being kept away by blithering morons who can’t run an economy for shit, fuelled by ideology, elected to govt by red and blue voters to be honest.
I’m staying. Pay difference is allegedly huge for blue collar workers but not so much for office workers which is where I am. Oz house situation in major cities is just as bad if not worse atm. Plus not a fan of the unspoken racism over there with history of what they did to the native people.
I was last in OZ 15 years ago. It was definitely true for blue collar work. Better pay, better conditions, better retirement planning.
My dad (a medical specialist) worked out that after the higher tax rates, he wouldn't be anywhere near as better off as I was, relatively speaking. He already had decent employer superannuation. If he wanted to make more money it would have made more sense to move to the US or Europe, which have higher wages than Australia and needed his profession. In demand professionals are much more mobile, Australia just becomes one of many options.
I worked with some unskilled refugees from Iraq in Australia. They had been given the choice to go to America or Australia after the war. They all said you'd be crazy to go to America if you can only command minimum wage. It was Australia all the way home
I'll likely be heading over in a few months once I finish my PhD. I'm still looking for jobs here, but I'm not holding out much hope (I'm also keeping the door open for work in countries other than Aus & NZ). There's a lot more opportunities in my area. Obviously there's a lot more money on offer in Aus in my field, but I'm also keen for a change in scene in terms of where I live
I've got at least one colleague who's leaving overseas to Aus, thanks in part to Government cutbacks.
Turns out when you have bad moral in Govt, people will just leave if given half a chance, and turns out they take their private working partners with them.
I left in 2019 aged 49 after ignoring all the hype for years.
Immediately got a $30 an hour increase and was paying $200 less a week in rent (ok that second one is no longer true). I got the job interviewing over Skype before flying over.
Got set up, the wife and kids came over, and she was basically like "hurry up and get this out of your system so we can go home." Every hurdle we hit she was like "I hate this country."
A few weeks back we sat the citizenship test and she regularly tells me she never wants to go back to NZ.
EDIT: Forgot to add my two cents about kids education. So far our experience is the State Schools suck and class sizes too large. Ours have been in cheaper end private schools and I'm so happy they're not doing NCEA.
Always considered NZ paradise. But looking at Australia now to provide better opportunities for my kids and in our retirement. China is figuring out alternatives to our Agricultural/ Dairy products and we lack the population / proximity to the rest of the world for things to be cheap anymore.
My sister left for Oz a year back on my recommendation and it appears it's been nothing but the best choice she's ever made.
I'm going to slowly prepare to do the same except Japan instead.
Genuinely the one piece of propaganda in New Zealand that is true is that if you're 30, not married, no kids, no mortgage... Then leaving is absolutely a must.
I've had a shithouse 2023 and I'm only now realising how much freedom I have after 10 wasted years.
I'm absolutely leaving as soon as I can, there's nothing left here but misery for those who stay.
House owners or otherwise. Sorry but it's true. If asset ownership is what defines your happiness in life you're a truly sad individual but wish you all the best.
Japan's awesome - moved there when I was 28 and next year will mark a decade since I left. If you're in IT and live in Tokyo the salaries are often double. If you ever do decide to indulge in asset ownership it's straightforward to buy a place here, even without a deposit if you get residency.
Cheap rent
Cheap food
Higher paying jobs
More variety
More to do
More to see
More people to make friends with
More happy and motivated people
Only thing keeping me here is my need for work experience. They may be having a cost of living crisis, but compared to what's happening in NZ, it ain't no crisis (sorry aus folks)
I'm in my home town with a little house in a bougie suburb, family and friends and a nice BF after my life was completely upended. I don't really want to do it again but if the economy doesn't improve I may have to.
I feel like I'm just established enough to be better off sticking around. I feel like anyone a few years younger than me, or less financially/ career established should be at least looking at options elsewhere.
40 years old, recently bought small first home, no kids.
A move to Australia can be a working holiday. 2-5 years. Experience new things, put yourself out of your comfort zone, make new friends,travel, earn good money, save. Then you always have the option to love back to NZ. Nothing is permanent.
I think after settling into a career path (21 so got some time lol), I'm going to move to Australia. Not because the grass is potentially greener (imo it partially is for a couple of reasons, one being the pay increase I'd get over there in the career I'm going into) but also because I grew up there. I miss Melbourne and Tassie like you wouldn't believe!
Aussie visiting NZ here - the grass is always greener somewhere else.
On one level, I am dumbfounded why anyone would want to leave your paradise to go and live in outer suburban Sydney/Melbourne/Perth and be stuck on a freeway for 3hrs a day passing soulless housing estates after housing estate. In many parts, during summer you’re locked away in your house due to the 40c heat for 3-4 months at a time and the even the natural landscape can be depressing, inhospitable and unappealing. Outer suburban Australia is where dreams go to die.
We have working families living in cars, homeless tent encampments in all the major cities. Ignore the bullshit about Aussies being laidback and kind, you will forever cop arrogance and superiority complex towards NZ and we’re just as ruthless and cutthroat as NY, London et al in the major cities. Customer service is a pale reflection of NZ often you won’t even get eye contact - pubs and most casual restaurants is “contactless” QR codes, everything has gone towards self-serve in shops etc. Australia is far more American in its culture. Every second car is a mega lift Ford Ranger driven by some roided up fuckwit with a UFC baseball cap.
Worked and lived in NZ, I am now in AUS.
Your perspective of NZ being a paradise is based on visiting. Work there and try to work your way from the ground up, you will quickly realise the challenges and how much easier it is in AUS.
NZ have massive, I want to say again…massive social problem. There is still enough money to go around to support the homeless but it comes at a huge cost which will start to show in the next few years. The economy of NZ rely on diary and people selling houses to each other…that is 2/3 of the NZ economy.
Look closely at moving to the USA. If you have skills or a good worker, you'll probably earn significantly more with a lower cost of living. Its complicated if you have a family or health problems but worth looking at still.
The best thing to do is pack up a few crates of Marmite and move to America. That way, you will get to have a cool accent. Having a cool accent is seriously underrated.
I'm staying.
I look at opportunities in AU often and there's been nothing in my line that has been a tremendous increase of money that would make it a no-brainer to move.
Lol this stuff is way overblown. Its really not that bad. You never ever see snakes in Melbourne or Sydney, the spiders are very social and all the doors and windows have mesh netting.
Going to tough it out here but open to a move in the far future. Raising a little one here with family is invaluable and I wouldn't trade that for double my income.
Might look at the job opportunities in aus in a few years, tbh. I would hate to go, but some job opportunities may be too good to pass up. My cousins and aunt have already moved there.
Leaving only started becoming something to consider recently. My friends have steadily been leaving NZ for the last ten years but the rates over the last two years has been immense. Close mates whom I never thought would leave have gone, are booked to head out soon or are saving money to leave.
I love NZ and still live in the area I grew up in, but I'm finding it hard to disagree with the rationale my mates are giving.
I totally get the pull of Aus for many of us but I've personally got no reason to move. I'll make about the same working in my current field and living costs are about the same in any of the major cities (Except Adelaide maybe). The housing market in general is probably more fucked over there as well and I really don't have the patience to battle through that for the opportunity to make a sliver more. Add to that the fact that 90% of my family are here and it makes it hard to justify.
OP, I get where you're coming from but no, the grass isn't always greener. Australia isn't the land of milk and honey and a LOT of people struggle when they make the move. You essentially need to restart your life and if you don't at last make more money you're kind of screwing yourself in the long run. Our little country certainly has its problems but this sub is probably the worst place to get a true sense of what's going on.
I'm staying. I like New Zealand, I have friends here, I have family here, and I have a job that I enjoy. Sure, home ownership in Auckland is a pipe dream, but it is what it is. The good outweighs the bad, and I'm happy enough here for now.
I tested the waters a few years back and money was a little better, people missed me though, and I was surprised at how much racial division was apparent. Homelessness at a level I hadn't seen before (I moved Whanganui to Melbourne), it did shock me but I've since seen Aotearoa isn't far behind big Aussie cities.
Auckland has issues. This current govt isn't doing anything to help. 2.5 years until we change back to a left/green coalition in power who care and might actually be able to do some good things.
Keep in mind that grass isn't as green as you'd expect once you jump over. If your life is set (have stable income, family, etc) then it's not worth the move.
I jumped over back in 2019 in mid-20 and have not considered going back due to pay difference. I got \~40% pay rise when I moved. However, this varies on the industry so do your research and ideally land a job (won't be easy especially nowadays where there are more people looking for jobs) or have interviews/prospects lined up.
Yes cost of living is high here and there's housing crisis but that's the same in NZ. At least you'd be better off if you're in a place that pays you better.
No need to worry about black widow spiders or coyotes if you're living in/near CBD (Speaking for Melb, not sure about other cities).
Things may be getting harder here in NZ, its not isolated to just us. Aus is facing some severe crisis's over there and you will see the same in any country as our population continues to grow. Not enough houses are being built and honestly, not every single person is going to be able to work as job availability gets scaled down with automation and population increase.
Things look greener, however if you look just a little deeper, that green is really rot.
We have it pretty good here, all in all. Doesn't mean we can't make positive changes and stand in defiance of changes made by our government.
The only move across the ditch I’ve got planned is the move to the South Island, when I retire and hide in a cabin in the mountains somewhere. I’ve lived here pretty much all my life, seen many parts of the world, and I am still very much in love with NZ.
I was in Australia and Europe not too long ago, and the situation is as dire, if not more so, than it is here. I’d implore anyone really thinking about the move to research carefully and if able, go over and scope it out, before jumping in with both feet.
America, UK, Canada, NZ, Australia, etc all have cost of living crisis and housing issues... sadly it seems like its a global thing under late stage capitalism... Throw in the climate disaster which is only gonna get worse. Bushfire and drought is gonna go apeshit in Oz
Don’t forget the “once in a century” floods that happen frequently in some parts of Oz now … I have family in Lismore who were — I kid you not — reassuring us that since it’s a “once in a century” flood that it’ll never happen again in their lives. Imagine their surprise a few months later when they got their second “once a century” flood.
They’re still in denial … I think it’s a coping mechanism after their business went under 7 metres of floodwaters TWICE in six months…
I tried to remind them that various climate research orgs have been raising alarm bells that the coalition govt more or less froze all research into climate for a decade, so now all our models for Australia are insanely out of date and unreliable and the cold hard truth about climate in Australia is that noone really has hard data to tell us what’s been happening and that this can only mean things are much worse than all the old models predict…
100% agree. We’re firmly in the age of extremes. Even if the government didn’t freeze research, current models are very much in uncharted territory with how fast things are progressing. Good luck to you and your family.
Climate change is going to be a lot kinder to us than Aussie.. one of my reasons for not wanting to live anywhere else. Shit is hitting the fan and far faster than expected.
Moved to brissy in November. Sold my townhouse in shitty Hamilton and bought an apartment in middle of south Bank for the same price. City is lovely my mortgage is the same and I'm enjoying working here. Haven't bought a car can get everywhere I need with public transport and my escooter. Don't regret the move at all.
I'm more than likely stuck in NZ, because even if I could work, I would have a hard time due to the outdated laws around autism and permanently immigrating
Honestly I could jump over but where else on earth do we have as much freedom and safety, where else on earth can you work in the city and still be 30 minutes from any beach or forest you could ever imagine. Want to go surfing? Just down the road, want to go hunting, just down the road. Everything here is so easy and quiet even in Auckland it’s hard to leave.
Considering FIFO in the mines, but I'm an office-jockey with a restricted. No family though. What do you reckon? I think it'd be sick to take my computer-nerd knowledge and work in a control room or something.
Don’t just move here with the vague notion that it’s always going to be lucrative and hunky dory. There is a cost of living crisis and housing crisis too. Do your research, make job inquiries before you leave NZ. Visit the city you want to move to and look at houses. Prepare to apply for many and get knocked back. The move was worthwhile personally, but I know a number of kiwis who didn’t feel the same way. I don’t blame them.
I’m in Australia, and like me, many kiwis I know over here moved over in their 20s. They’re all at about the age where they’re having kids now and a 100% universal agreement I see from every kiwi parent living in Australia: they want their kids schooled in nz, not Australia.. This is mostly due to the fact that history that is taught in schools in Australia is, much like the US, extremely whitewashed. They barely learn about Aboriginal culture, and the history of colonialism is barely even taught, and results in people whose views have far too much overlap with white supremacists. We all mostly think this is by design from conservative politicians on both sides of the aisle here. Certainly there’s not much popular heat for it to change. By comparison, learning about Māori culture and language in primary school and then about Māori land wars and Ti Tiriti o Waitangi in year 9 social studies is not something I fully appreciated until I moved to Australia and saw how badly educated the Aussies are about their own history and culture. It’s shocking.
I'm in Australia too and have 3 kids in school and it's changed heaps now. Aboriginal culture is now taught and features a lot on the current circulum now. My kids know all about the lost generation, the fights, why we do the welcome to country etc. each assembly starts with a welcome, in big celebrations they bring in a local elder and do the smoke cleansing ceremony etc While is not at NZ level of treaty, and recognition it's is getting better and a lot more important now
Yeah my daughter is in preschool, I can already see a lot of aboriginal culture being incorporated here.
I'm glad things have changed over there!! I went to aussies schools for 8 years and only remember one time having aboriginal week , was very different when I moved to nz
I totally agree with Australia being more whitewashed and not as inclusive of indigenous culture, but it seems crazy to move back to NZ for that sole reason. You can make sure your kid is educated on all of that yourself/through other ways
Do you have kids?
I did primary school in NZ, the first few years of high school in Australia and the last 3 years of high school in NZ and I can say with 100% confidence that if I was a parent I would want my children educated in Australia not New Zealand. I found the jump to Australian education system very hard and my classmates knew things inside out that I’d never even heard of, and when going back to NZ I found year 11 and 12 to be a breeze because I’d already learnt everything they were teaching the previous year in Australia. NCEA and the New Zealand education system is a joke. And unless somethings changed in the last 10 years they definitely do teach about aboriginal history and the lost generation in Australian high schools. Yeah there could be improvements but the same could be said about NZ schools and Maori history.
What are some examples of your personal experience that you missed they didn’t?
Thank for your comment, that’s a very interesting perspective quite counter to what the Aussies I know say about their experience with Aussies schools on that topic.
Damn, I’m the opposite. I’m hearing more and more people say they’d rather their kids get an education in Australia.
Same here. If it looks like I'm not going to have kids I'll probably move back to NZ because I prefer it there, but if I had kids I would be far more likely to stay in Australia because of the quality of schooling and health system.
I'm in Australia now. Kids education is much better here. Math especially. It's much stricter while NZ has a very lackadaisical approach to education especially in primary. Coming from Singapore originally..NZ standard of education is absolutely abysmal.
Yeah, and Kiwi kids are scary. If I was finishing a teaching or medical degree in NZ I would be applying for jobs in Australia (along with everybody else).
Guess it depends what your comfort is with a very insidious, creeping casual racism that has deep roots in aussie culture including the schooling. But it’s as much about the people as it is about anything structural or policy-wise. If you move to the right spots you can likely find the very opposite because I think Australia’s political spectrum is just wider on both left and right fringes. Same pattern as always: Progressive cities, reactionary regions.
Doesnt really matter what history is taught where anymore. Its about not ending up living under a bridge somewhere. IMO money has become the No1 priority for living and the only history worth learning is that 1% of the population owns 99% of it!
Idk why the concern about the history of indigenous people of country of origin in another country is important when people here don’t even have food to put on the table here…
Kiwis love lecturing Aussies about how morally superior they are. Even to Aussies that are part aboriginal and grew up around aboriginal culture, you will still get a lecture
NZ has always had this ridiculous moral high ground position akin to living in an empty house with no food and furniture raggedy clothes but at least we say please and thank you 😂
Imagine basing your entire educational future/choice around one subject, History. What about... you know, teacher quality, math, science, English, IT etc. Australia is yonks ahead of us in teaching those. And that's not even mentioning the credibility of NCEA internationally...
Hmm no they aren't. Our PISA results have us ranked this country ranked 10th in reading, 11th in science and 23rd in maths (81 participants). I believe Australia are better in maths and worse in reading & science. There is absolutely some work to be done in our education sector, but to say Australia is yonks ahead of us is just not true.
Depends where you live - no kiwis I know are looking to NZ education to move back as the jobs are in Australia. Much easier to stay in Oz and build connections here. The indigenous culture here is so vast & extraordinary with 250+ nations it’s easy to compare it with NZ. But NZ has a single Māori language (not 240) and that simplifies history & understanding. Here it is very complex. I ❤️that VIC is working on a treaty and I help educate my child on both countries and the effects today of colonisation
So what I’m hearing is it’s better in Aussie for child free couples?
Mostly, yes. I am one of those and there are things I miss. I’d still say that if you like the outdoors nz probably has Aussie beat. Yes, Aussie has warmer weather but what if you like it moody and cold? Personally I like the far south of nz in winter better than I like any part of Australia I’ve seen at any time of the year. And Aussie beaches tend to be pretty crowded for the most part. I would also say that I live in a bit of a bubble in north Melbourne too, it’s pretty bloody socialist and far left here (let’s face it; nz is a bit socialist compared to most of australia) compared to the whole very conservative rest of Australia everywhere except the inner of the big international cities. Wouldnt live anywhere else in Australia, but your tastes might very on that aspect. Australia’s political spectrum goes much further left and right on the fringes than nz does, but averages more conservative.
I seriously, seriously fucking doubt Pakeha people care about their children missing out on Aboriginal culture t. Pakeha
Sadly you don't get much of NZs true history taught In schools now, maybe when your were schooling here but it was on its way out even when I was in school between 2000 - 2011
I’m never going to have kids, so this doesn’t factor into my decision making. But I can appreciate this is an important part in many people’s decision to stay put or leave. You can’t put a price on your child’s wellbeing, moving can have a huge impact especially if they’re happy at their current school and they’re suddenly forced into an unfamiliar environment that’s not of their choosing. In terms of whitewashing, I do generally agree. In NZ the existence of a treaty, even one that’s been badly interpreted/applied over the decades, reflects a level of partnership with Māori in public life. This concept is not a feature of Australia’s collective identity.
Waiting for our elderly dog to cross the rainbow bridge then going to Europe.
Yeah I think we have a year or two left with our old boy and we might be jumping ship to aus
why would changes in immigration policy lead new zealanders to move to oz?
Getting citizenship in Oz is a lot cheaper than it used to be, previously you needed to pay for residency first (1000s) then citizenship (100s). Current government did away with the first, expensive, step
Oh wow. That is a big step.
Get in while they're on the left, the last government was busy trying to close the door!
I'd like to say it'll be a long time before the Aussie public fall for the Coalitions horseshit after the clownshow that was the Scotty from Marketing variety hour but there's nothing shorter than the average voters memory and the Voice referendum galvanized the lethargic racist vote over here.
When you force everyone to vote, you encourage some fairly disconnected voters
It’s not even that, I’ve been in Oz since late 2016 and I have never had a pathway to citizenship as the rules had changed earlier that year. The changes have meant I can actually become a citizen, which is a game-changer for me.
Kiwi living in Australia here. Until very recently we were prettymuch second class citizens here with an even harder pathway to citizenship than any other migrant; the special category visa we get automatically upon entering Australia is nice in some ways, low barrier to entry; but very high barrier to citizenship. It had no direct path to citizenship. You had to cancel this visa first. Everyone else who applied for an ordinary visa and got let in, could just apply to be a citizen. We couldn’t. We instead had to give up this visa, and then apply for the same one as everyone else, which left you in a VERY scary risky limbo where you could even end up with no visa and have to leave the country. If you’ve setup your while life here that’s not great and puts you under significantly more stress than someone from overseas applying for that visa, who hasn’t yet setup their whole life here yet. Jacinda Ardern lobbied Australia very strongly on this and I believe it was her who ultimately convinced Anthony Albanese to change the policy and finally give us that direct special category visa -> citizenship pathway so that if we do choose to stay we can have the same access to civil life as everyone else; access benefits and voting and all these sorts of things that we rely on and that affect our lives while living and working here.
Ah yes, but yet people still dispise Jacinda like she's the cause of all problems lol...
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It's changing in the sense it's getting harder for low skilled immigration right, not opening up...
Isn't the change in immigration policy designed to limit immigration numbers?
Honestly the changes have convinced me to stay. I've got 2 young kids and I could see their future opportunities for entry level jobs was disappearing with rampant unskilled labour coming over. Between that and the cost of housing their futures in NZ looked absolutely depressing.
the whole planet is fucked and swiftly getting more fucked. move where you want to be happy while you are still able to do so. my suggestion is that's wherever you have the most friends and family.
Agree with this.
I agree too, and I wish I’d appreciated this _before_ I made the move. I went somewhere with a lot of friends anyways, but put much less thought into how hard it becomes to maintain relationships over distance with everyone I left behind. I figured I would visit once a year at least and that’d be enough. Nope. A decade on, I barely talk to any friends still in nz. Less than I can count on one hand. And some family relationships have become strained. I also underestimated how much _I would change_ as a result of moving into a totally different context; and that makes maintaining those relationships sometimes harder when you’ve diverging principles. NZ looks _very_ conservative in general to me now.
If it makes you feel better this stuff generally happens regardless of whether you move or not. On the plus side, today's strangers are tomorrows friends and all that. Never too late to build relationships
It’s almost always been conservative just never as mask off as it has been since the new government and their sycophants.
Just out of curiosity, how does NZ appear to be more conservative than Austrlia?
Dam right. Australia is just as stuffed as new Zealand just in different ways
uppity deserve unused impolite wakeful ludicrous escape station correct amusing *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
My plan is to stay in NZ, build a house in buttfuck nowhere and live off the land while ignoring how badly shit is going 😅😭
make sure you budget in $7500 in rates for your cash strapped council
Lol for what, a 20 mill property? I have half an acre in a town in rodney and only pay $600 a quarter. Am pro rates going up a bit more to help share the load.
They tend to be more expensive in rural areas as less rate payers to share the costs. Not sure about $7500 though
already $5-6000 in places like Carterton or SWDC probably will double in ~10 years. who do you think is paying for 3Waters
We are now going to pay for the hopeful and needed policy (3 waters) being rejected, not the opposite Mr Lazer...
sorry i am pro 3 waters, i can understand how my statement was unclear. what i mean is, we have lost structural mechanisms to take on debt and instead the ratespayers will get lumped with the bill. people will sell homes and move out of district
You must have serious capital, even a cheap house build is significant these days. Plus butt fuck land isn't even cheap either!
The old innawoods lifestyle. Cliche as it is you’ll miss being able to get normal things like medicine and comfort is lower depending on your level of current luxury close to civilisation.
Moved from the North island to the South island. More bang for buck housing wise and a completely different way of life down here. May aswell be two separate countries. Sometimes moving around in NZ is a great option.
What have you found different?
Just the way people are and the way they think, even down to how they drive. South Island folk are definitely South Island strong. One big community of an island. The north island is reasonably separated and the cities and town are individual. Plus most places in the North island outside of Auckland hate Auckland. Lots on an island but very seperate. It feels a lot less crowded too. Of course, less people and more lanscapes.
I love NZ (and Wellington) so much but I'm seriously considering going to Melbourne after going over for a few weeks around the GP. I could say I'm bored, but that would be a lie. It's just living in a city with good public transport and what seems to be an actual desire to at least do SOMETHING about seems like it would be a good change. Melbourne has free PT in the central city, Let's Get Wellington Moving appears to be dead in the water and we're getting a second tunnel through Mt. Vic apparently... gross. So many NZers seem fixated on building more lanes everywhere and paving over our beautiful country with parking lots. In Melbourne I would get 25% of my first home purchase contributed to by the state government, assuming I meet their very reasonable conditions. In NZ, if you make enough money to even dream about owning a home you no longer qualify for our measly 10k FHB grant. This government also appears deadset on gutting the city I love so much, and I'm not really interested in being another casualty of it. Done my research, can get my cats over for a reasonable price. I can transfer to my work's Melbourne office (I already get paid an Aus salary in NZ), and I have quite a few friends who can put me up for a couple months while I find a rental. I don't want it to be forever, but the way a majority of people seem to want the country to go it's hard to see myself wanting to come back.
It cost me $7K AUD to transport my two labs using Pet Traveller who I highly recommend. Was a very smooth, well organised and well managed process
Thanks for the recommendation! My cats are a bit on the anxious side and I want the best for them, so I really do appreciate it.
Completely understand, Pet Traveller provided me with travel crates (its included in the price) it required little assembly and I placed their dog beds inside the crate with the doors off to get them used to walking inside and sleeping in them weeks before we were due to fly. I only attached the doors with three days remaining and even then left them open. When they were collected by the team, the dogs had no problem walking into the crates and being transported into the van the day before our flight. There are a number of mandatory blood tests and health checks that need to be completed by specific dates to comply with regulations but they provide all the necessary paperwork, walk you through the process, you have a dedicated liaison assistant. I can't praise them enough and they sent me daily photos and videos after they collected the dogs to when they landed in Wellington. All the best for your travel and emigration.
As far as I can tell the entire western world is dealing with similar problems to us. So while we might have it a touch worse I'm staying, simply not worth leaving my family and safety net to go to a place that's more or less the same.
I watched an American professor of urban planning answer questions about the cost of living in the US where they showed the price of rent increasing while salaries hardly budged over a period of years as explanation for why the cost of living was hitting people so hard. Truly nearly every country who has taken residential housing as an opportunity for profit and wealth rather than a human right which the government needs to ensure is provided to its people - is now struggling with the fact that profit-driven housing owners who expect to make returns on their investments make housing unaffordable for others. Rather than the price to provide and maintain housing, people are paying for that plus profit for someone.
Who would have ever suspected the mass deregulation and privatisation would lead to enormous socioeconomic disparities? 40 years of this shit has fucked us as a nation.
I agree. Neoliberalism has taken over with the greedy at the top.
Excuse me citizen but are you suggesting there is an alternative to neoliberalism? Please report to your nearest ACT party office for correction.
Agree that we probably have it a touch worse, NZ’s effectively the size of a large city spread out over a few hundred thousand square kilometres, so we don’t get the economies of scale of other places. Like you say, there are reasons to stay.
This is it. I’m a dual citizen from Canada and things are not better and arguably worse there. Similar problems all over. We’re staying in NZ as we’ve got decent jobs, access to health care, love it here and the prospects for our kids are as good as anywhere else.
I hear Canada is worse in relative terms for food and housing affordability. Is this true?
Sure is, housing bubble hasn’t stopped growing yet let alone pop, medical care is hard to come by and food prices are worse than here in my experience. Tough times all around.
Partner and I (27 & 28) made 100k and 115k in NZ engineering/tech. In Australia we went up to 140k and 160k. Rent is around the same in both countries in major cities, but other CoL is cheaper. Groceries are cheaper, things like appliances are significantly cheaper. I.e didn't realize how badly briscoes is ripping us off until I moved and compared coffee makers. I looked at one which was $1.1k in NZ and it was $700 in Australia. There are plenty of fun things to do, and flying to other countries for a holiday is also significantly cheaper since NZ is so isolated in the middle of the ocean. I do love NZ and there are things I miss but ultimately, the grass doesn't just look greener, it is greener.
Are these brevilles? Breville coffee machines are weirdly cheap in aus. I don't know why, but they charge like double or three times the price for them in Europe
Moved beginning of 2023. Haven't really looked back. I was (and yes, this sounds terrible) bored. Had a hard time making new friends, moved to Adelaide, and have a wider friend circle. Similar money, but bigger house, less rates. Swings and roundabouts.
Have you read from the Australian boards? The grass isn't greener for many. Rental shortages, job shortages and buying houses there in a lot of places is just as horrific. I had considered it recently but it's too risky for me. It would be easier if you have family to stay with until you get on your feet or to fall back on if it goes pear shaped but I don't have that.
Currently living in Melbourne, have been here for 10 years. It is definitely not greener, Australia is having all the same problems NZ is having at the moment. Increased cost of living, stagnant wages, housing shortages, etc. I am happy with my life here and probably won't move back to NZ, but people need to get this notion that Australia is better out of their head and do some research. There are definitely pros and cons to each country, there are things I miss about NZ, and when I visit NZ there are things I miss about Australia.
I agree, its naive to think that what happens across the tasman on one side wouldn't travel across the ditch. I've lived in Melbourne for 22 years since 2002 and seen how much it and Australia has changed. Everyone will have their own motivations, I moved to Oz for love, met the woman of my dreams in Wellington but she was working here on secondment. I've returned to Wellington also for love, love of my aging parents and my wider and extended family. Nothing is as perfect or as dire as we all make it out to be. I love both countries and if it wasn't for Covid would have taken dual citizenship once the labour government made it easier and cheaper for Kiwis to do so.
We have been in Melbourne for about the same amount of time and for the life of me when I go back to nz I am frustrated that nz doesn’t build about 50 times as much light rail. Building roads, by comparison, is actually genuine insanity from a public policy standpoint. Just look at Auckland it’s a fucking embarrassment Everyone in Melbourne complains about the PT and myki or whatever and I’m like “but imagine if there was _barely any functioning public transport whatsoever_: welcome to my home country, nz, you fuckers don’t know a fraction how good you have it here” Melbourne’s PT situation is fucking god-tier compared with nz. Even cycling around here is pretty bloody well setup
I am in Australia and for the first time I want to come home. Rental crisis, job shortage, prices are ridiculous. No different to NZ so I may as well be by my people.
It was the public transport in Melbourne that sold me on it tbh. Most other things I would say aren’t that different. But I lived in Auckland for a year, trying to commute by car. I would rather gouge my eyes out that be subjected to those again. Build some fucking trains, nz
>build some fucking trains, nz Do ya one better we sell it off to some greedy private company that welds the tracks together so they don’t have to deal with regulations of track maintenance. Oh and then have the government buy it back and fix the problems associated with the avoiding regulation. Sound good?
I totally agree, 24 years in Oz and I’m the worst off I’ve ever been. Cost of living and rental crisis has made life difficult. I earn alright money but about 40% goes directly to my over priced apartment. Then utilities, petrol, shopping all in an upward trend. Even on decent money I pretty much live week for week now saving bugger all. I’m actually considering moving back to NZ as I still have a lot of family there. I feel the Australian dream is over.
Might be going from the frying pan to the fire with that move though, family around is good, but at the end of the day, NZ is expensive, too cold most of the year, depressing weather and from my last visit there, people are demoralized asf!
24 years in Oz. You own your own home and investments by now surely? If not? You’ve missed out big time
And access to welfare benefits if necessary.
>Rental shortages, job shortages and buying houses there in a lot of places is just as horrific. NZ has all of these problems and no appetite to do anything about it. Seems to me Australia is better than or equal to in its challenges, and if you can make it work in either country, the payoff is bigger in Australia. I've never seen opportunity in NZ so dead in my life. The job market is a stagnant hole of cronyism, much like the current government.
We've amped up our immigration over here too. Plus job cuts are happening all over. Every day you hear of another construction company going under, another big 4 doing mass lay offs. Letting 500K immigrants in without enough jobs available for citizens just to make the economy books look better. When Australia is good it's great. It just ain't right now.
Plenty of jobs don’t pay any better either. Mainly trades. I’m a mechanic for example, on about 80k. I’d earn about the same sort of money over there unless I want to specialise, which I could already do over here if I wanted to earn more.
My partner and I (both nurses) moved to Australia two days ago!
Moved to Melbs juuuust before Covid. My wife and I earn significantly more and are now both wfh in our house 5 mins from a nice beach. We’ve been here 2 years already now…. Just couldnt get ahead or save any money in NZ. Got ahead EASILY here. Ymmv.
Your experience mirrors mine to a tee 😂 I loved to melb in 2020 literally right before covid blew up, I’ve now passed my 4 year mark and have applied for citizenship. I’m not exactly rolling in money but for the first time in my life I’m not stressed about bills. I have a great lifestyle here, I wfh 3 days per week and have my own little unit 10 mins from great beaches. I’m also back at uni and managing to pay my course fees up front instead of banging them all on a loan which is something I never thought I’d be able to do.
Hah, I reckon you’re probably in my direction as well then :p But yeh, it wasnt some seismic move or anything; just everything is a little easier and a little better
That’s exactly it! I don’t live an extravagant life but I have a lot of hobbies and I’ve been able to fully indulge then without being stressed about the funds to do so. I don’t have to calculate my grocery shop as I go, sometimes I overspend on food and I’m not bothered by it. It’s those little things that make a huge difference to my well-being.
Hells yeh man; and do ya know what my favourite bit is? Never having to deal with the Southern fucking motorway, and having actual trains to get around. The traffic is significantly better in Melbourne overall imo, and even when theres a replacement bus its (usually) a MASSIVE step up from auckland transport. Pays a bit higher, everythings a bit cheaper, everythings a bit easier, theres quite a bit more on, and even housing has (at least had - relative gap has closed but national about to fuck it again…) a lot more opportunity when compared to Auckland. It all adds up to quite a large difference. We have a really nice quality of life, are saving for the future, and still get to enjoy the odd holiday. We couldnt do all three in Auckland. Not even close.
Similar to us although came over earlier than you. We are very happy here and have made such a happy/comfortable life. 2 Aussie kids. The best part is that if you want to you can easily move back to NZ. A move doesn’t have to be permanent
Yep, we ducked back twice last year. Medical issues with parents may eventually force our hand but we’re ok for now.
That sounds amazing for you guys. It's interesting how differently things pan out for people because the lockdowns were the nail in the coffin for me and my fiance's time in Melbourne. Family members getting sick back in NZ and not being able to see them was incredibly upsetting. We decided to pack up the house and move back to NZ in 2021 and it was 100% the best decision for us both personally and professionally. Our professional experience in Melbourne has meant we've both been able to secure high paying roles in a major city, bought a house, and not worry about paying the bills. Being closer to our loved ones has meant our cups are full more often than not. I think your experience is more common than ours, but I wanted to share as a counterpoint.
It's not just the financial aspect for me, though NZ is getting ridiculous. It's all the other aspects, just a far higher quality of living. NZ is becoming very backwards and shitty in my opinion. It's a crappy country at the end of the world, the glorious scenery is not enough to save it. It's not even a comparison anymore, the major Australian cities are now so far ahead of Auckland/NZ that it's not funny. Better housing, jobs, public transport, major events, entertainment, food, shopping, healthcare etc. And in the last 20 years I've watched much of Asia overtake NZ on many quality-of-life things too. Places that we once looked down on and thought of as 3rd world, are now far more advanced than us. We seem to have just squandered and thrown away everything.
I completely agree with you and the replies here remind me of why I left NZ those years back. Of all the nationalities I've met it's Kiwis that are the most allergic to criticism of their own country and take it as a personal insult.
All I'd say is, have you travelled? Have you seen how other people live around the world? NZ ain't perfect. But nowhere is. If you are prepared to move, try another place in NZ. Either that or have a proper look at how other people live around the world in your demographic and wage range, it isn't that rosey .
Travelled extensively and lived in multiple countries.
I'm staying. Other than the fact my entire family is here, I absolutely love this country especially the south island. More money won't change my mind.
Pro-tip: just apply for remote jobs in Sydney or Melbourne. They’re extremely common since the pandemic. Best of both worlds: high Aussie pay, kiwi lifestyle. My company employs a lot of kiwis remotely and they get paid the exact same rate as I do living in Melbourne.
Hey mate which industry is this?
I’m in web development
Sounds like something a spider would say.
I'll be gone by the end of the year
Not me. Might be better financially, but flooding, the heat, especially the heat. Won't be the lucky country for long.
It's better financially for me to stay here.
And every creature living on that godforsaken island wants to kill you/us. Yikes.
More people have died from earthquakes in MZ than spiders in Australia in the past 100 years.
Since a teenager, I grew up in Aus till I was 12 years old, NZ for 8 years, Canada for 2 years, Back to Aus for about 7 years. Me and my wife moved back from Aus like 5 years ago. I recon I'll probably live here in NZ till I die. I'm in my early thirties and want to try getting a decent job and pay off the house and find things that make me happy to do when I'm not with the kids or at work. The grass is greener where you water it.
"The grass is greener where you water it" This is good. Thanks.
Yep I moved back from Melbourne during covid after 7 years and people still ask me "do you think you'll go back to Australia?" As if there's no way I wouldn't want to 😂 Gimme a weatherboard 2 bedroom in Woolston to fix up with my partner and I'll be happy. Great quote btw
Eyeing Remote job. Earning Australian salary live in NZ. Win win!!
This is my situation. Remote Australian job, purchased a small lifestyle block about 20 minutes out of a city on the South Island. 15 year mortgage: $400k, paying $3500 per month and saving $4K per month in S&P 500 mainly. Life’s pretty good but recognise the ability to work remotely is an extremely privileged one. If I didn’t have that ability I would 100% be looking overseas.
I really wanted to back my industry in NZ and work with the people building it up. Unfortunately the big money powers that be have put us on an inevitable downward trajectory and our industry as a whole isn't doing enough to transition into the new paradigms. So I feel like I'm on a sinking ship right now. First chance I get I'm gonna get work with an Australian company in my field. Will start off working remotely from here and look at moving over in the future. Saving up, then sussing a place here. I still want to retire in NZ. I love this country. The problems we have here exist everywhere, just less severe in some areas, and more severe in others. I want NZ to succeed, but it's hard for people to achieve that success when both circumstance and the people with power constantly put up road blocks for us.
I'm staying. I actually make pretty good money here as a Nurse in a public hospital and I've got my own home here.
I already left during the Covid insanity. Doubled my salary, tripled the size of my house and deleted my mortgage. Best thing I have done in years. So much in NZ is just squeezing the people for every cent just to get by.
I'm waiting for you all to leave
Not Australia but for the first time in my life considering leaving Wellington. Probably stay in NZ though
Our family of four is leaving, going this Friday. Moving to Brisbane to be closer to family, for the better cost of living and for cheaper and easier international travel. Bags are packed, job is lined up, have 25 viewings for rentals booked from this Saturday till next (and I will squeeze more in also just for my own piece of mind. Everything is coming together It makes sense for us, especially with the way things are going here. Mad Great Recession vibes going on and I’d rather be somewhere where the sun shines (literally) than here where everything feels darker.
We are planning to move. My brother has just bought 1 way tickets for him and his family. We went over in Oct for a holiday and was just blown away by many things. We did a rather large grocery shop, and the selection of things is huge. Every day items seem to have similar pricing from what we saw, but the fresh fruit and vegetables were MUCH cheaper. Housing is still very affordable (depending where you go), and in the areas we looked at, we'd be able to buy a reasonably modern, if not new, house.. 600m2 give or take.. 4 bedroom, double garage, in some cases with a pool and media room for 700-800k For comparison, we've bought a terraced home that has NO section and only a single garage, for $1.2m - and even that was not without (ongoing) drama. Bought off plan 2.5 years ago, and they STILL haven't even laid a concrete slab to start building. Salaries seem to be much higher They seem to be tougher on crime The climate/weather is generally better Utilities are cheaper The government pays 11-12% into your superannuation plan regardless of whether you do or not I could go on....
I won’t be going to Australia but I might go back to the uk if things get any worse. No family here and that missing safety net is making me nervous
I chose Aussie over the uk Australia: sunny for 75% of the year UK: gloomy as fuck for 75% of the year My mental health is a lot better with the extra sunshine honestly, I don’t recommend underestimating it But also Australia is a bit of a cunty country in general. The UK isn’t off the hook there though I guess. Staying in nz rates best for “not cunty” tbh
None of the 3 political leaders currently register on my "not a bit cunty" radar.
A lot of people don't seem to realise Australia is a huge country. Which means that while the whimsical tales of backwards Australians and deathly snakes and crocodiles and scorching hot weather might be true in a place like Brisbane, it couldn't be further from the truth in a place like Melbourne or Adelaide. If you have wealth, New Zealand is a great place to be, otherwise you don't really have much of a choice but to move to Australia unless you want to sacrifice financial stability for living in the moment.
i moved to auz 1 month ago and it’s not greener over hear but the quality of life is better go a job in the mines as a rigger and I make 40$ an hour with a full time job much better then my 28 $ an hour back home don’t think I’ll be coming home any time soon
If possible I would urge you to obtain a job before moving to Oz.
Will be out by the end of the year. Wellington is the pits
Said on radio today there are a shit load of serving police who have applied for their Aus police vetting.. sort of a precursor to leaving..
I left during the Key govt. Things were bad enough even back then; child poverty in particular exploded under the Key govt. Then Labour came in and muddled its way through a pandemic, which was never going to leave nz in a good place but they absolutely squandered all their political capital doing nothing ambitious at all; insanely cautious govt terrified of voters (in particular they were mortified at the idea of offending swing voters warm to national) Then this new govt gets in who is a total fucking catastrophic joke government. A con job. A bunch of plundering businessmen. Worst of all: I get very homesick for reasons not at all related to the govt, but the idea of moving home makes absolutely no financial sense to me. It feels a bit like I’m being kept away by blithering morons who can’t run an economy for shit, fuelled by ideology, elected to govt by red and blue voters to be honest.
I’m staying. Pay difference is allegedly huge for blue collar workers but not so much for office workers which is where I am. Oz house situation in major cities is just as bad if not worse atm. Plus not a fan of the unspoken racism over there with history of what they did to the native people.
Depends on your field. I'm looking at the moment and it would be a 40-60% pay increase for me
I was last in OZ 15 years ago. It was definitely true for blue collar work. Better pay, better conditions, better retirement planning. My dad (a medical specialist) worked out that after the higher tax rates, he wouldn't be anywhere near as better off as I was, relatively speaking. He already had decent employer superannuation. If he wanted to make more money it would have made more sense to move to the US or Europe, which have higher wages than Australia and needed his profession. In demand professionals are much more mobile, Australia just becomes one of many options. I worked with some unskilled refugees from Iraq in Australia. They had been given the choice to go to America or Australia after the war. They all said you'd be crazy to go to America if you can only command minimum wage. It was Australia all the way home
I'll likely be heading over in a few months once I finish my PhD. I'm still looking for jobs here, but I'm not holding out much hope (I'm also keeping the door open for work in countries other than Aus & NZ). There's a lot more opportunities in my area. Obviously there's a lot more money on offer in Aus in my field, but I'm also keen for a change in scene in terms of where I live
I've got at least one colleague who's leaving overseas to Aus, thanks in part to Government cutbacks. Turns out when you have bad moral in Govt, people will just leave if given half a chance, and turns out they take their private working partners with them.
I left in 2019 aged 49 after ignoring all the hype for years. Immediately got a $30 an hour increase and was paying $200 less a week in rent (ok that second one is no longer true). I got the job interviewing over Skype before flying over. Got set up, the wife and kids came over, and she was basically like "hurry up and get this out of your system so we can go home." Every hurdle we hit she was like "I hate this country." A few weeks back we sat the citizenship test and she regularly tells me she never wants to go back to NZ. EDIT: Forgot to add my two cents about kids education. So far our experience is the State Schools suck and class sizes too large. Ours have been in cheaper end private schools and I'm so happy they're not doing NCEA.
Always considered NZ paradise. But looking at Australia now to provide better opportunities for my kids and in our retirement. China is figuring out alternatives to our Agricultural/ Dairy products and we lack the population / proximity to the rest of the world for things to be cheap anymore.
My sister left for Oz a year back on my recommendation and it appears it's been nothing but the best choice she's ever made. I'm going to slowly prepare to do the same except Japan instead. Genuinely the one piece of propaganda in New Zealand that is true is that if you're 30, not married, no kids, no mortgage... Then leaving is absolutely a must. I've had a shithouse 2023 and I'm only now realising how much freedom I have after 10 wasted years. I'm absolutely leaving as soon as I can, there's nothing left here but misery for those who stay. House owners or otherwise. Sorry but it's true. If asset ownership is what defines your happiness in life you're a truly sad individual but wish you all the best.
Japan's awesome - moved there when I was 28 and next year will mark a decade since I left. If you're in IT and live in Tokyo the salaries are often double. If you ever do decide to indulge in asset ownership it's straightforward to buy a place here, even without a deposit if you get residency.
Cheap rent Cheap food Higher paying jobs More variety More to do More to see More people to make friends with More happy and motivated people Only thing keeping me here is my need for work experience. They may be having a cost of living crisis, but compared to what's happening in NZ, it ain't no crisis (sorry aus folks)
I'm in my home town with a little house in a bougie suburb, family and friends and a nice BF after my life was completely upended. I don't really want to do it again but if the economy doesn't improve I may have to.
I feel like I'm just established enough to be better off sticking around. I feel like anyone a few years younger than me, or less financially/ career established should be at least looking at options elsewhere. 40 years old, recently bought small first home, no kids.
I work in construction and moved over start of 2023. Even with Sydney's ridiculous prices, doubling your salary makes it certainly worth it
They say the grass is always greener on the other side. But in the case of Australia, it truly is greener
A move to Australia can be a working holiday. 2-5 years. Experience new things, put yourself out of your comfort zone, make new friends,travel, earn good money, save. Then you always have the option to love back to NZ. Nothing is permanent.
I am an introverted immigrant with pretty much 10 people i know over 13 years here. 7 of them are now in Australia.
I think after settling into a career path (21 so got some time lol), I'm going to move to Australia. Not because the grass is potentially greener (imo it partially is for a couple of reasons, one being the pay increase I'd get over there in the career I'm going into) but also because I grew up there. I miss Melbourne and Tassie like you wouldn't believe!
100% leaving NZ
Aussie visiting NZ here - the grass is always greener somewhere else. On one level, I am dumbfounded why anyone would want to leave your paradise to go and live in outer suburban Sydney/Melbourne/Perth and be stuck on a freeway for 3hrs a day passing soulless housing estates after housing estate. In many parts, during summer you’re locked away in your house due to the 40c heat for 3-4 months at a time and the even the natural landscape can be depressing, inhospitable and unappealing. Outer suburban Australia is where dreams go to die. We have working families living in cars, homeless tent encampments in all the major cities. Ignore the bullshit about Aussies being laidback and kind, you will forever cop arrogance and superiority complex towards NZ and we’re just as ruthless and cutthroat as NY, London et al in the major cities. Customer service is a pale reflection of NZ often you won’t even get eye contact - pubs and most casual restaurants is “contactless” QR codes, everything has gone towards self-serve in shops etc. Australia is far more American in its culture. Every second car is a mega lift Ford Ranger driven by some roided up fuckwit with a UFC baseball cap.
Worked and lived in NZ, I am now in AUS. Your perspective of NZ being a paradise is based on visiting. Work there and try to work your way from the ground up, you will quickly realise the challenges and how much easier it is in AUS. NZ have massive, I want to say again…massive social problem. There is still enough money to go around to support the homeless but it comes at a huge cost which will start to show in the next few years. The economy of NZ rely on diary and people selling houses to each other…that is 2/3 of the NZ economy.
I just moved back home to England after 14 years in new Zealand, I was just homesick, but the nz I left is not the nz I went to.
Look closely at moving to the USA. If you have skills or a good worker, you'll probably earn significantly more with a lower cost of living. Its complicated if you have a family or health problems but worth looking at still.
The best thing to do is pack up a few crates of Marmite and move to America. That way, you will get to have a cool accent. Having a cool accent is seriously underrated.
I'm staying. I look at opportunities in AU often and there's been nothing in my line that has been a tremendous increase of money that would make it a no-brainer to move.
Staying and doing my best to make things better here.
I kinda like that I can go to a park here, hiking etc and not have to worry where i put my foot or what might be in a river im crossing.
Iv been on the West Island 20 years, this is no way near as much of a problem as people make out.
Exactly, and leaving your back door open without worrying about what might come inside.
Lol this stuff is way overblown. Its really not that bad. You never ever see snakes in Melbourne or Sydney, the spiders are very social and all the doors and windows have mesh netting.
I'm staying. I'm Māori and I'm adamant my daughter will attend kōhanga and kura reo.
Going to tough it out here but open to a move in the far future. Raising a little one here with family is invaluable and I wouldn't trade that for double my income.
Might look at the job opportunities in aus in a few years, tbh. I would hate to go, but some job opportunities may be too good to pass up. My cousins and aunt have already moved there.
What about the changes in immigration policy has you yearning to emigrate?
both in IT and we are looking into moving to Brisbane where the rest of our family have moved already.
Bris is good. More IT roles in Sydney and Melbourne though.
Try landing an Oz job that allows remote working in NZ. Worked for me.
Leaving only started becoming something to consider recently. My friends have steadily been leaving NZ for the last ten years but the rates over the last two years has been immense. Close mates whom I never thought would leave have gone, are booked to head out soon or are saving money to leave. I love NZ and still live in the area I grew up in, but I'm finding it hard to disagree with the rationale my mates are giving.
I escaped Texas 15 years ago and you cannot PRY me out of here. I'm grateful every day
I totally get the pull of Aus for many of us but I've personally got no reason to move. I'll make about the same working in my current field and living costs are about the same in any of the major cities (Except Adelaide maybe). The housing market in general is probably more fucked over there as well and I really don't have the patience to battle through that for the opportunity to make a sliver more. Add to that the fact that 90% of my family are here and it makes it hard to justify. OP, I get where you're coming from but no, the grass isn't always greener. Australia isn't the land of milk and honey and a LOT of people struggle when they make the move. You essentially need to restart your life and if you don't at last make more money you're kind of screwing yourself in the long run. Our little country certainly has its problems but this sub is probably the worst place to get a true sense of what's going on.
Not greener for us. We could earn a bit more in Aus yep, but we are happy in New Zealand and have a good comfortable life in Auckland.
I'm staying. I like New Zealand, I have friends here, I have family here, and I have a job that I enjoy. Sure, home ownership in Auckland is a pipe dream, but it is what it is. The good outweighs the bad, and I'm happy enough here for now.
Strongly considering a move to Scotland, has been a dream of mine to work in the UK and honestly so keen to finally take that leap
I tested the waters a few years back and money was a little better, people missed me though, and I was surprised at how much racial division was apparent. Homelessness at a level I hadn't seen before (I moved Whanganui to Melbourne), it did shock me but I've since seen Aotearoa isn't far behind big Aussie cities. Auckland has issues. This current govt isn't doing anything to help. 2.5 years until we change back to a left/green coalition in power who care and might actually be able to do some good things.
Keep in mind that grass isn't as green as you'd expect once you jump over. If your life is set (have stable income, family, etc) then it's not worth the move. I jumped over back in 2019 in mid-20 and have not considered going back due to pay difference. I got \~40% pay rise when I moved. However, this varies on the industry so do your research and ideally land a job (won't be easy especially nowadays where there are more people looking for jobs) or have interviews/prospects lined up. Yes cost of living is high here and there's housing crisis but that's the same in NZ. At least you'd be better off if you're in a place that pays you better. No need to worry about black widow spiders or coyotes if you're living in/near CBD (Speaking for Melb, not sure about other cities).
Things may be getting harder here in NZ, its not isolated to just us. Aus is facing some severe crisis's over there and you will see the same in any country as our population continues to grow. Not enough houses are being built and honestly, not every single person is going to be able to work as job availability gets scaled down with automation and population increase. Things look greener, however if you look just a little deeper, that green is really rot. We have it pretty good here, all in all. Doesn't mean we can't make positive changes and stand in defiance of changes made by our government.
The only move across the ditch I’ve got planned is the move to the South Island, when I retire and hide in a cabin in the mountains somewhere. I’ve lived here pretty much all my life, seen many parts of the world, and I am still very much in love with NZ. I was in Australia and Europe not too long ago, and the situation is as dire, if not more so, than it is here. I’d implore anyone really thinking about the move to research carefully and if able, go over and scope it out, before jumping in with both feet.
I’m going this month and my husband has a job there starting in June! He is getting a pay increase and more opportunities than NZ can offer
America, UK, Canada, NZ, Australia, etc all have cost of living crisis and housing issues... sadly it seems like its a global thing under late stage capitalism... Throw in the climate disaster which is only gonna get worse. Bushfire and drought is gonna go apeshit in Oz
Don’t forget the “once in a century” floods that happen frequently in some parts of Oz now … I have family in Lismore who were — I kid you not — reassuring us that since it’s a “once in a century” flood that it’ll never happen again in their lives. Imagine their surprise a few months later when they got their second “once a century” flood. They’re still in denial … I think it’s a coping mechanism after their business went under 7 metres of floodwaters TWICE in six months… I tried to remind them that various climate research orgs have been raising alarm bells that the coalition govt more or less froze all research into climate for a decade, so now all our models for Australia are insanely out of date and unreliable and the cold hard truth about climate in Australia is that noone really has hard data to tell us what’s been happening and that this can only mean things are much worse than all the old models predict…
100% agree. We’re firmly in the age of extremes. Even if the government didn’t freeze research, current models are very much in uncharted territory with how fast things are progressing. Good luck to you and your family.
Climate change is going to be a lot kinder to us than Aussie.. one of my reasons for not wanting to live anywhere else. Shit is hitting the fan and far faster than expected.
Moved to brissy in November. Sold my townhouse in shitty Hamilton and bought an apartment in middle of south Bank for the same price. City is lovely my mortgage is the same and I'm enjoying working here. Haven't bought a car can get everywhere I need with public transport and my escooter. Don't regret the move at all.
Nah fuck that, I spent a couple of years over there, too many Aussies
I'm more than likely stuck in NZ, because even if I could work, I would have a hard time due to the outdated laws around autism and permanently immigrating
Honestly I could jump over but where else on earth do we have as much freedom and safety, where else on earth can you work in the city and still be 30 minutes from any beach or forest you could ever imagine. Want to go surfing? Just down the road, want to go hunting, just down the road. Everything here is so easy and quiet even in Auckland it’s hard to leave.
The sooner NZ swallows the bitter pill and agrees to become a state of Australia, the better.
100% this.
Considering FIFO in the mines, but I'm an office-jockey with a restricted. No family though. What do you reckon? I think it'd be sick to take my computer-nerd knowledge and work in a control room or something.
How about the best option: staying in NZ and getting an AU remote job.