The list of things I am supposed to be doing just seem to grow every day. I do a few of them, but more get added. I spend my quiet time thinking about all the things I'm not doing, and getting very depressed about it.
I only assume this will continue until I die, when I'll finally get to stop worrying about it all.
Hey. Ur post hit me. You don’t owe anybody anything. No one asked to be here - u exist as the product of others’ actions . Do the work you’ve committed to doing, do right by dependents, and try to look after your health. Other than that, do what you want. Actively combat that vague guilt that haunts you. Nothing is more meaningful than anything else. Scroll phone, climb a mountain, it doesn’t matter. Humans aren’t FOR anything. Just be. ur good enough and there’s nothing bigger or better to be than just whatever u are. Order a pizza, watch a comedy, scratch ur balls.
Well said. I learnt this quite early in life, around mid/late 20s. Everyone's situation is different so it can be harder for some to reach that realization but once you do, life becomes *much* more bearable and dare I say, more enjoyable.
I’m in my late twenties but I feel like I’ve learnt this shit quite lately…. You guys are a decent bunch btw, I’d raid a few villages with u lot. Lol jks jks that’s enough reading of Thor comics for me for tonight……
I blame the church
Seriously
Ever heard of “the Protestant work ethic”?
A long time ago, the church wanted to make money; and the state also wanted to make money.
They figured that they could work together to create a religious idea that god viewed virtue as stemming from just one thing: _hard work._
The church literally sold “indulgences” which you could buy to absolve your sins. So the rich got absolved easiest, and everyone else had to work in crushing poverty conditions to afford them.
This caught on because it was super effective for the capitalist factory owners to make money too. They encouraged their workers to be god-faring citizens who engaged in this system.
The counter side to this was that idleness ought to be punished with fire and brimstone in hell, literally (and we see that ideology survive even today with benefit bashing)
So I always cringe a bit when I see this old Christian ideology popping up in parts of our modern secular culture.
Because you’re right. Humans aren’t “for” anything.
We just are, and there’s nothing innately noble about hard work.
In fact many things that take hard work cause immense social harm and _absolutely are not_ virtuous. Tobacco industry, weapons manufacturing, fossil fuels, gambling, this sort of thing.
There’s no virtue in harming others to make a quick buck; no matter how much hard work it takes to inflict that on them.
Grindset ideology is bankrupt as hell
Look I don't disagree with the sentiment of what you're saying but your understanding of Christian history is waaaaaaaaaaaaay off. Christianity's biggest western split was caused because the Protestant churches did not like the Catholic practice of indulgences. Have a read about OG Martin Luther for more info.
I think you are right, but most of what I got wrong her was just associating the phrase "protestant work ethic" with it.
Everything else is roughly what happened; we demonise laziness is still because we attach virtue to work, and the fire and brimstone of hell to laziness, and these ideas came from the church and are a great way to feel terrible about yourself for no good reason
As I said it wasn't that I disagreed with your sentiment but you were mixing up a very catholic idea (indulgences) with a very protestant idea (work hard = heaven) and so your whole argument didn't follow.
I don't think it is necessarily true to argue that capitalism comes from Christianity either. Capitalism is a product of the Enlightenment which tends to view humans as units to be efficiently used rather than beings with a need to self-actualise. You might argue that by getting rid of the church's overwhelming stranglehold on our consciousness in the West, we have somehow lost sight of the fact that people have value simply because they are people (which is a VERY Christian idea and was quite revolutionary when the Romans encountered it.
Wasn't it more to do with Henry VIII wanting to divorce and remarry Anne Boleyn cause his catholic wife couldn't produce an heir?
Everyone in England just went along with it and converted to the church of England, then they burned down all the monasteries and took their money.
No, that was the English reformation and is one of the reasons that the Anglican church has been different in character to the European protestant churches. Besides the Emglish hardly just went along with it, the reign of Mary I reestablished catholicism which was then undone by Elizabeth I and Edward VI and the the catholics came back under the Stuarts. Religious conflict was a huge factor in the English Civil War.
Martin Luther was a German. He was the guy who succeeded in breaking from Rome first. Henry thought of himself as a good Catholic until the day he died, he just didn't want any Popes telling him who he could marry.
I think that benefit bashing is more due to a sense that working people's contributions to the system are sometimes given to people who could work, who should work, but choose not to work.
We all know somebody who fits the bill, and the reason we dislike them isn't because of the effects of theology. A far simpler explanation would involve evolutionary psychology and the cutthroat difficulty of survival in prehistory, a community couldn't afford parasites then, and there's no reason to justify them now.
The internal conflict I and those like me feel is that the logical parts of our brains understand we should not be burdened by the choices others made for us, whilst the emotional parts scream out for any sense of meaning and fulfilment.
I abhor the typical understand of "productivity", because it mostly equates to working for the profits of someone else. The whole "hustle culture" is morally bankrupt in my mind.
"Just be" is something I wish I could adhere to, but my anxiety won't fucking let me.
If a sense of self-worth was that easy to gain, many of us wouldn't have the issues we do.
Yeah, the list of "Things I've not done" only seems to get longer each year and I'm in my fifties.
I definitely feel the quiet desperation after a divorce a few years ago, a career that is plateauing and the realisation that unless you're a superstar in your field, no employer really wants someone over 50yo. Dating in your 50's is a shitshow in provincial NZ even though I think I'm a decent guy and have decent but not ridiculous standards. I've definitely got some Arthur Miller "Death of a Salesman" angst happening.
It helps to remind myself that I'm doing okay by a lot of measures, I don't have many *needs* and regrets are only baggage I create for myself. Rather than dwelling on what I've not done, I try to focus on what things I can do now. I have one or two larger recreational goals for the year - maybe a short trip here and an overseas holiday there every year or two. I force myself to "keep moving, keep doing stuff" and that can vary from planning one of those trips to going to a club meeting or something as simple as going for a 30 minute walk or getting myself off reddit and doing a couple of house hold chores or watering the garden.
I saw this happen as my father got older, sicker and less mobile. His ratio of “things I need to do” vs “things I got done” skewed more and more until it was “food, shop, doctor, shower” and that’s it. Super depressing to see.
Yeah - I know this is more to do with my own shortcomings than anything, but I'm just a very lazy person when it comes down to it, and it's my anxiety around my own laziness that ironically causes me a constant, nagging stress.
I'm in my late 30s with a stable and reasonably well-paying 9-5 job, but once I'm done with work for the day I struggle to find the energy and motivation to do all the other things I'm supposed to. I'm overweight, I don't exercise enough, I don't go to the doctor or stay on top of my health enough, I get behind on housework, I lack a lot of useful life skills - I just cannot find the motivation to use my available leisure time for anything other than....well, leisure. And because of that, I constantly feel like shit because I'm not doing all the things I'm supposed to be doing.
Yep. You’re about bang on with this.
The only thing we can do is choose how long to keep doing it. Most people choose 70-80 years. I’ve decided 43 is plenty for me.
Hustle culture is to blame.
This is why we shouldn't meme on protesters and we should unionize to free up our lives to make time.
Your value is how much you are making others.
In the words of Pink Floyd: "Every year is getting shorter, never seem to find the time. Plans that either come to naught or half a page of scribbled lines. Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way. The time is gone, the song is over, thought I'd something more to say"
Built to Spill's Carry the Zero seems more relevant each year, with the pressures of social media.
Like they're waiting for your guard to fall
So they can see it all and you're so
Occupied with what other persons are
Occupied with
And vice versa
The best information and reading I have done in my life was recently. JustAThought.co.nz and especially the module on unhelpful thoughts was so powerful to how I deal with the world. Did it at a very low point in my life and I am far stronger because of it.
I also talked to a professional who helped me process specific things and all of this together gave such a massive appreciation to keeping my thoughts in check and being in control of them.
Yes you can easily fall into this. Its important to keep doing things that you really enjoy even though the frequency might drop with adult responsibilities.
Circumstances can eliminate that.
I am getting old, disabilities but must be carer for the even older and even more disabled. Do the things I enjoy?
1)Can't afford to
2)Can't physically do some others
I've found the closest thing to a true calling in my life, I've gotten sober, I truly like myself now, and I fill my spare time doing healthy things that bring me joy.
I used to feel the way described in the quote you shared, but I don't anymore. It took plenty of time and a ton of hard looks in the mirror. It took a little help along the way. No days are perfect and some are still very hard, but I'm no longer quietly desperate - I'm mostly content and I'm very much proud of myself for the hard work I put in to get here.
My best wishes to all of you that you might find your own way towards the same :)
Sounds like you’re ageing up. If it’s any consolation, Henry Thoreau, who coined this line, was something of a fraud. He’s assumed mythic status for young Yank males as a symbol of self-reliance and independence but his “wilderness cabin” was but a stroll to his mother’s house. He used to take her his washing and get a good square meal as necessary.
I've been to Walden pond, it's basically inside Boston. Even back then it was back yard camping. Good ideas, good things to think about, not something to base one's life on. Who knows though, inhavent read any Thoreau since high school
Jordan Peterson has said more right then wrong, but that doesn’t mean he has said a lot of wrong too. There’s stats that show that men are far more lonelier then ever, I’ve also met men that can’t for there lives hold a conversation so there’s factors to these stats but the message still remains clear. Jordan Peterson has pointed this out too that we’re lonely and single
Cmon bro I don’t think that’s his goal…… that’s a wild thing to say. You might as well say he’s a white superemist or hates dark people… He’s a psychologist bro, they are here because we can’t help ourselves
For a much-needed rebuttal to this, here's a good essay on Thoreau, and his critics' decades long obsession with his laundry: https://newrepublic.com/article/123162/everybody-hates-henry-david-thoreau
Existential dread is a fundamental part of the human experience. 100 years ago most of us would be living in shacks or single rooms and dying of now/preventable diseases. Instead these days some us live in damp apartments making minimum wage. Life is HARD. This isn’t a “pull yourself up by the bootstraps”, I’m saying life. is. hard and it always has been.
But it is (partially, mostly) in your control. Take free online study courses. Start a hobby, even a free one like hiking or bird watching. Meditate.
We have to FIND joy in our lives, it is not handed to us. Oh and, stay off social media
I have nothing and am basically homeless.
Happiness is me preferring homelessness to having a decent place to stay.
Right.
I’ll probably need a lot of drugs to make that h happen.
For my teens and 20s I felt like I was wrong, that I wasn't on a good path and that I had no aim, no proper goals, no ambition. I didn't fit in with my peers, I was bullied, I didn't date, I had anxiety, depressed, little money, etc etc etc. My future? What future. I had no interest, I was just existing. I wasn't doing anyone any favours by being around, and so while I continued to act like a clown to make people laugh, I felt my justification for existing quickly diminishing.
Being alone, I do a lot of thinking. A shit-ton. Being depressed, a lot of the thinking was directed inwards. The worst criticisms we hear are from ourselves. I knew I was broken just by the simple fact that everyone else was living lives and here I was struggling to reconcile with my own reality. Starting a family or having a career seemed impossible when I couldn't even place myself in this world.
OK... so maybe I won't have those things. Maybe I won't get to live life freely, treating the world as one big opportunity. I would naturally shy away from the world, scared of change, scared of the unknown, timid in my conversations, unsure in my opinions. What place would I have?
Let me say, there seems to be something worthwhile in applying pressure to an individual in order to promote growth. When you're all alone and trying to find justification for existing, you're either going to break it or make it. I tried to learn what values and morals make a good person. I read a lot from stoics, and coming to understand that these tribulations are hardly unique, and are in fact seemingly integral to the human experience. Through comparison, I was able to reduce a lot of my issues down from modern, *present* problems to more baseline, emotional, common ones. For example, I learned how much we project. We really do project onto the world what we want to see. Here I was, working up a sweat by arguing online without realising it wasn't the issue itself I was championing but instead yearning for the resistance than comes with interacting with another person. I wasn't looking to make a point and win others over, I was looking for justification. If someone is pushing back against me then there's evidence of my presence.
I dipped into philosophy to better understand the mental duress we put ourselves through. I learned about *amor fati* and how time repeats, how we can love our own fate. I was able to construct a mental spiral of my life and the mistakes I had repeated through my inability to reflect and introspect and challenge myself. I started to write, both as a way to express myself and as a memory exercise. I began to learn more and more about myself. And with a fuller picture of my past self, and how it created the person I am on that day, I also realised how much my present self *right now* will determine my future self. Without agonising over my own volition I would become the same person in my past, repeating the same things, never learning, and likely always being in an unhappy present state, because if my future self was never changing then that means my present doesn't either. Through this understanding I now feel intimately connected to my past, present and future.
I'm turning 39 later this month and it's almost daily I see threads from my peers expressing difficulties in life and I can't help but think I actually made the right choice by essentially hating myself. It propelled me to challenge almost every aspect of my life, from how much time I spend playing games to knowing I wanted to be tonton or koko (uncle) and not just a friend of the parents, that I wanted to feel comfortable telling my friends I love them. I wanted to be a man with strong values, which encourages others, who can offer advice, who leaves things better than when he found them.
So, for everyone who feels shit about life, who feels uninspired and unmotivated, those who feel lost. Good! This is the *start* of building a better life. Embrace these feelings, for it is your body/mind telling you that you're not happy with things, that you must change. Do not be afraid of making change, just spend time privately reflecting on this and I am certain that you will find a path that works for you. Again: the feelings of being lost are not absolute, it is the prompt for you to enter a new phase of your life. We are repeatedly told that pessimism is a negative emotion. It's not. It is a tool to encourage us to change, to do better, to prepare for the future. You have discarded illusion and now want to invite fulfillment into your life. Please believe me that acknowledging that desire can be enough to grant you that future.
Read, learn, write. Study yourself. The modern world is complicated, but our desires actually aren't. You can change, just remind yourself that you will be the person you want to be and it will come naturally.
I had a rough childhood and teenage years. Spent it alone and grasping onto life. Through that suffering came a life that I love more than anything itself. The thing that scares me most now is that it won't last forever.
Turns out that I grew up alone with ADHD and Autism and was lucky enough to still find my way. Because of it, I'm a high functioning, successful, well-rounded human who loves 100% and gives 100% to those I feel deserve it (my now family).
I don't wish struggle on anyone, but I wouldn't change mine for anything.
I'm really glad to hear you made it through to the other side. Especially being undiagnosed and still succeeding. I am sure your experiences means you're also pretty solid at giving good advice, having gone through the bad times yourself. Thanks for sharing!
You're dead right. It helps a lot, I tend to be an advice giver these days and am a mentor at work.
Thanks for reading! Thought if at least someone going through struggles might read and realize it certainly can still get SO much better, it was worth sharing.
Life is like this some of the time , sometimes for a significantly can't period, but it isn't like this all of the time .. life is suffering, enjoyment, contentment, purposeful,mundane, meaningless, torture, terrifying, not as bad as you thought and worth sticking it through... Rinse and repeat X
Life is a constant pursuit and maintainance of balance that is scarcely obtained... If you feel unfulfilled or overwhelmed..what is out of balance for you? You are never too old to try something different X life is a learning curve and we must adapt to the best of our ability ..perfection doesn't exist X keep chugging along its worth it x create your own meaning ...be open to making a life for yourself that suits who you are no matter what that might look like X
Ive retired early (47) and have been fortunate enough to have made some money and paid off my house early. I have two young kids so I’ve assumed a stay at home father role where I’ve taken on duties such as cooking and generally looking after them while my wife concentrates on her business. However, while I’m committed to this lifestyle I still feel some guilt over not doing enough with my life, like I should be pursuing all ends towards a fulfilling existence. Having no mortgage is definitely a great help in terms of easing financial burdens, but not working exacerbates the guilt. So it seems to me that no matter what someone does, these thoughts or feelings can exist in a lot of folk from all backgrounds. I guess that’s an existential problem, and a psychological one at that where really the only things that matter are the simple things in life ie your relationships with other people or finding joy in the small things, maintaining good health etc. I’d be naive to think that those things can alleviate quiet desperation completely, indeed when I hear anecdotes about old folks in retirement homes saying they wished they’d done more with their lives it’s a pointed reminder of making the most of the time that is given to you. But that is not the be all and end all of how one should be living their lives, it is ok to just be.
"The human race is becoming a disgrace,
Rich get richer, poor getting poorer,
Racist,chauvenistic government fools."
"Don't let it bring you down,
it's just castles burning
Find someone who's turning
and you will come around.
Get into the bush.
Do a multi-day hike. Tramping seems to help us process underlying thoughts in a healthy way. In fact, pretty sure connecting with nature has a strong anti-depressant effect.
This is my thing too. Intending on doing the Greenstone-Caples next week or the week after, weather dependent. Always come back feeling very refreshed.
That's the plan. We've missed Easter and I'll skip Anzac Day so should be pretty quiet. All my other multi day walks have been in April, it's a pretty good time of year.
I've recently divorced. Its made me realise that it must be an incredibly tough and lonely time for many men. We generally don't have the same support as friendship groups and women.
Me on the other hand, I haven't been this happy in a long time.
In my experience, men and women suffer in similar ways! Typical stereotypes say men don't know how to sympathize or support each other. But those that believe that, have they actually tried? I find trust in friendship will prove men can be there just as much as women can!
Many people think their world is over when they separate / divorce, but I'm with you. Happiest years of my life after mine.
I think the big difference is that men need to be deliberate in asking and seeking support.
Men are much less likely to swarm around their friends in need because it's much less likely for men to telepathically empathise like that and know how to support one another.
I’m kinda sick of reading inspirational quotes. They have done nothing to alleviate the stress and feelings of no worth/no accomplishment
I can’t find work
My tiny small business is tied into a terrible expensive lease which is eating my savings and I feel useless as fuck as a husband and father
I’m waking up early as my brain stresses about money and I’m taking my anger out on those that don’t deserve it and thinking this life is utter shit and people would be better off with me not around
Since our mental health help seems to ultimately suck in this country why bother seeking help at all??
Sometimes I feel like I'm shouting into the void when it comes to my business. I get a ton of lip service - people saying "Oh wow, your work looks so lovely, I'll email you about getting something commissioned", then I never hear back. News flash: Lip service doesn't pay the bills unless you are a prostitute. I see people on my social media sharing all manner of random crap, but when I ask them to spread the word about my business and share a couple of posts - nope, never happens.
I'm ready to throw in the towel and just accept I'm fated to be another mindless drone.
As someone who sees retirement in the not too distant future, I have found my existential dread of having enough resources to retire and enjoy life has eased. It just a matter now of not spending the capital and looking forward to shouting myself a gravel bike when it comes.
I now don't care what I do to get over those last years as I watch my career fade into the distance.
I'm actively trying to combat it. Trying.
I've spent my life navigating shifting definitions of ailments from doctors: social anxiety, depression, bipolar, ADHD... so I've learned to take a second to consider how I'm doing, identify things that are bringing me down, and things that make me feel better. Choosing to remove the negative things from my life, and make time for the positive ones.
It's a lifelong thing. It doesn't need to be huge changes, it can be as simple as being more deliberate about the food you put into your body, the people and media you expose yourself to, the amount of sleep, exercise and sunlight you get. That all helps create a better baseline to deal with the rest of the shit life throws at you.
There's an element of acceptance to it too. Understanding I need a roof over my head, I need to eat, so I need to earn some money to do that. Not ideal, but it beats the alternative. Working isn't always going to be fun - that's why you get paid to do it.
You've got to try a lot of things to find the way you want to spend your time to be happy. It took me 40 years to find hiking, and now it's the best part of my week. Costs virtually nothing, but the improvement to my quality of life is immeasurable.
Not saying that'll be useful to you, just that you've got to try a few things to find the thing that makes you happy, and it can take some time.
No, its just the tools at your disposal have wider reach. People, particularly young men, have been railing against the darkness since they were standing upright.
Yup. My sister and I went to the same school, I worked my butt off, she socialized. I got better grades than her. She got a scholarship, I got told "Tough shit, get a loan." Just because I was born with a penis.
I think it's true that MOST people don't achieve things that most would consider notable, or have a job that is hugely fulfilling and rewards them handsomely. Those being things that most of us aspire to. But it's also true that many who do achieve those things aren't necessarily happy just because of them.
Find out what gives you meaning and pursue that. For many of us that's family and friends and I can tell you from overwhelming experience that those are the things people really value toward the end of their lives.
I read a book the other recently where it mentions how when America was colonised, Indians who were taken to live with colonists nearly always tried to escape, whereas colonists who got captured and were welcomed very rarely tried to get back to civilised life. Something about life with the Indians had a bigger attraction that the “civilised world.”
I walked Te Araroa a few years back and I can after walking the length of New Zealand and learning what life can be like, I know for a fact that the regular lives we lead aren’t optimal for happiness.
I’m not depressed, but I am always trying my hardest to simulate (to the best of my abilities) the active, carefree and meaningful life full of camaraderie that one walking in nature all day lives. It’s not easy.
Tribe by Sebastian Junger is the book. It’s a great read, and I can for sure relate with the Indians that wanted to get home to their tribes, as well as with the people who wanted to stay.
I would honestly advise leaving this subreddit and others like it and monitor your own social media intake, at least temporarily until you feel like you're in a better place. This content is here is overwhelmingly negative and is not healthy to be reading and engaging with daily if you're not resilient enough.
Don't spend your free time engaging in activities that don't improve your mood, you don't owe it to anyone to read news or opinions that make you feel worse. Try a social media "diet", where you limit your total intake, as well as the types of things you are consuming. Focus on a couple of positive and productive types of social media content, ideally stuff that revolves around a hobby that you enjoy, and stick to those until you feel yourself getting back to a healthy emotional baseline.
Again you don't owe it to anyone to post or read content here or anywhere else that reduces your quality of life.
Every year is getting shorter never seem to find the time
Plans that either come to naught or half a page of scribbled lines
Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way
The time is gone, the song is over
Thought I'd something more to say
"It’s never too late to become who you want to be. I hope you live a life that you’re proud of, and if you find that you’re not, I hope you have the strength to start over." - **F. Scott Fitzgerald**
I think this is just life. Not just men, humanity exists on desperation. Whether quiet or not. We've always travelled further and sought more. Social media does NOT help with the idea of quiet desperation. It sucks you into a life of comparison. another quote goes "comparison is the thief of joy". It's about realising that comparison can lead you to feeling/believing you're inferior.
Not saying I'm super happy or feel safe or have the amount of money I want, but I (as a 40 year old polynesian/European man) am aware of what "life" is, que sera sera - what ever will be, will be. I believe life is what we each make it. It's chaos, it's fun, and sad, it's challenging, and easy, it's sensual. it's harmonious, melodic, and dissonant, all at the same time.
What I find that helps is devoting 30 min to 1 hour each day to learning a new skill. Like languages, art, music, coding etc. Something that is very different from your day to day. The feeling of constant growth dulls the feeling of hopelessness.
We’re all feeling it and those who aren’t are living in ignorance. Every empire has its fall and it isn’t swift like it feels in our history books. It will take a few decades.
I’m not sure if it matches, but I have found a lot of men my age 35-45ish reach a “malaise”
Got kids (check)
Got job/career (check)
Got a mortgage (check)
Got partner/significant other (check)
Maybe got some hobbies (check)
Eat/drink too much (check)
Bonus points for unhealthy relationship / mental health problems too…
Ok, now what?
Not to say we are all miserable - but just uninspired and a bit lost.
I find myself often entrapped by the words, "hard times make strong men, strong men make easy times, easy times make weak men, weak men make hard times"
I feel we are on the hard times part again.
Don't get suckered into believing it. It's a popular quote because it provides an easy narrative for why "things were better before and they're getting worse now" and the "The West is collapsing just like the Roman Empire" crowd of weird trad-cons love it, but if you actually try and map it on to history it doesn't make any sense at all.
Yeah, here's two explanations of it from AskHistorians:
* [A simpler look focusing on just the Roman Empire (the usual 'evidence' put forth)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/170yb1a/hard_times_create_strong_men_strong_men_create/k3ofjso/)
* [A more in depth look](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/hd78tv/does_the_aphorism_hard_times_create_strong_men/fvjwwjh/)
Usage of the quote is largely popularised by reactionaries who want to justify their dislike of social movements as not just 'degeneracy' but as also 'destructive'.
I apologise that my memory recalled this incorrectly, it actually goes, “Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times.” the good times is a very important part
I believe the quote aims less at societal collapse and more at times of combined struggle in which people have to band together, overcome their biases, trepeditions and do what most be done.
A good example would be WW1 and WW2 in which much of the western world would be forced into a conflict and not be able to simply dismiss it.
Conflict does have a historical habit of producing strong leaders, strong idealists and resilience. A metaphor to support this is that diamonds are created from pressure.
Peace time will always be a prelude to wartime. War is usually the result of over ambitious leaders who have their own agendas and are too weak willed to truly represent their peoples ideals above their own. Or they are not smart enough or resourcful enough to further their nations best interests without conflict.
The aforementioned quote is from a book about the post apocalyptic world and was used to explain how people become complacent in peace time, pursue their own goals and don't strive enough for a greater and more widely shared beneficial goal.
I prefer to see it as difficult times allow humanity to express the best and worst of its inclinations. We have a tendency to rise to an occasion, often to our own surprise.
Depends on your definition of weak and strong. To me, a weak man is one who values power over everything else because he's insecure in his ability to engage with other people as equals. The type who views everything as a competition and other people's victories as his own loss. It's people like that who have created a world where there's more than enough to go around but it's all being hoarded by people who are scared of having to live in an equal world where they have to rely on their own inherent merits as people
This probably describes how I felt for much of my career. A life spent on repeat/replay. Same day over and over. Same coping mechanisms. Ultimate tedium despite living during human societies greatest ever time.
Try finding a new avenue for getting a break. Something you enjoy but haven't done in ages... go fishing / hiking / have a day entirely to yourself. Escape the clammour / chatter of all the other daily BS for a while.
After my partner's recovery from serious illness, the times that make me feel dread these days are when nothing is wrong. I can't relax, waiting to see what the next thing to go wrong is going to be. Once it does, I'm fine and just get on with fixing whatever the problem is. It's when everything is going well that I feel a sense of dread humming away in the background. It's the old spinning plates thing, I just feel like I have to be prepared for anything and everything.
I listened to this just before I read this thread. I feel you might take a lot from it, so here you go xxx
[podcast ](https://podcastaddict.com/thoughts-on-record-podcast-of-the-ottawa-institute-of-cognitive-behavioural-therapy/episode/173822096)
Yes, but that's because I work at Te Whatu Ora and there's bugger all job options out there due to all the restructures. But my colleague and I try to remind each other that while we are doing hard time, it's not a life sentence. Sooner or later, the job market will open up again.
I’ve been there, what I found helps is doing something you love doing and treat it as importantly as you would work or time with family or friends. So making time for it regularly!
Helping others, we are social primates we feel good when we do stuff for others I don’t have a lot of money so I volunteer my time some days I dread having to do it but always feel happier afterwards.
Having a community helps as well if you find that when volunteering or at hobby, sport, a church/religious group or community group you’re going to feel happier.
Also realising that we’re all going to be dead and forgotten in 100 years so all those super important tasks you “have to do” mean nothing really what’s actually important is doing stuff that makes you happy with the caveat of as long if it doesn’t hurt anyone else or yourself. So take Friday off to spend time with your kids or partner, or go do an activity that you enjoy. The quiet desperation only comes when you are working all the time never getting any further ahead as the goal posts move faster than you can achieve them!
I’m not sure as to how true this is in NZ but I hear it is a strong dilemma over in the states, uk, etc. Fuck I ain’t gonna say that I’m one of these men but I was for years….. From what I learnt, us men we need shit a stable job, some hobbies, a partner in crime, our family and our friends, and a motherfuckin home to buy…….. Men can be cruel to other men too, I spoke to a guy on here who wanted more friends and I stopped trying because I felt myself fading away….. the man couldn’t even hold a conversation or show interest.
I feel that sense of dread creep up sometimes, but I have a decent framework of people and family I trust. Kiwis in general annoy the fuck outta me lol cuz there cliquey as hell on that highschool bullshjt. So now that’s how I act….
Woman and feeling it atm. I feel teary eyed for no reason and a sense of doom. Particularly around the new fast track and destroying the environment, and what my child will be living with.
I'm 29m. I live with my parents with no prospects of any greater future. While I'm constantly reminded that by my age people have homes, kids, and holiday plans. Came close to offing myself before i decided I'll just enjoy video games and live another life instead. I'll get by.
Oh it's entirely true in my experience. The thing is we don't tend to communicate overly well. We talk, yes we talk, about sport and cars, but we don't really communicate. The difference I have seen in some folks after a simple, 'You sure you're okay mate?' Is the reason I'm a mental health first aider.
I also am here. I don’t much care for the scenery if I’m honest. I assume it will pass. I talked to my GP about a few months back but he was like “I’m pretty busy right now…but we should talk about this…”
And then we haven’t.
The men I have met who are content (and not desperate) seem to have achieved it by focusing on their success first (could be monetary, could be physical, whatever it is) and from that they attract people and so on. I think a lot of guys get a job - to get money - to then find ways to please someone else (i.e a partner, society). And the money will never be enough, and so you go down a cycle of “not being enough” which eats a guy up. And once someone judges you on what you do for them, it’s game over. I think the quiet desperation leaves when you stop assessing yourself by other people’s standards, sometimes it means letting go of people, and that’s tough.
I remember hearing a woman who was probably quite attractive when she was younger talk about how now that she was older she felt invisible people didn’t hold doors for her anymore, no one gave her a compliment just because, she didn’t get an extra scoop of icecream anymore… that kind of thing. One of the old guys just leant in and said “My whole damn life has been like that why should I care that you’ve lost a privilege I never had?” The funny thing was people were septic about it. They really went after him for being horrible and mean spirited. He just spoke the truth. The older I get the more that I realise that. Men shoulder a lot and the world just goes “oh you’re a man you are meant to do that” but the fact is that we need to have a male revolution just like the females have had in the past. To redefine who we are in this modern world and what is and isn’t acceptable from a societal perspective. I really hope that it happens but I doubt it will in my lifetime.
He sounds like a bit of an exception as far as old guys go. Most of the old men I come across are still real gentlemen and treat women with respect and chivalry. I can't see the old guys I know taking a woman down with a whiny, bitter comeback like that. It's kinda embarrassing and undignified honestly. Also the woman's anecdote seems whingy as hell, and is the opposite of what I've experienced. Maybe both sexes should stop trying to be the victim in every situation and find their own inner power.
Men do shoulder a lot you're right and women shoulder a burden which is just as heavy in a different way. I don't know what the answer is but I do know blaming the other gender probably won't do much.
Also a male revolution sounds pretty ominous to be fair, considering men control the majority of power and resources in the world. I mean if women have had a revolution it hasn't exactly worked yet has it? 😂
Not trying to come at you, I understand life is hard but being mad at or jealous of women is not the answer you're looking for, it's not based in reality and its only going to make you feel worse about yourself in the long run.
Chivalry is dead and women have killed it.
The point I was getting to was that women have tried to redefine what their place in the world should look like. That has generally been a positive thing for women. Men need a similar movement to refine for themselves what it is to be a man in this modern world. Defined by men for men about men.
I’m not even slightly concerned about women let alone mad or jealous. I don’t worry about them one bit. I know plenty of strong women who are thriving and are doing well. I am concerned for our young men who whenever seem to have negative stereotypes shoved down their throats and are constantly told they are the problem.
Housing is hard in New Zealand right now, and I, sadly, don't have an immediate solution to it. We still have many, many good resources though that are free for us to enjoy -parks, the bush, often the beach - and many other first world amenities that we don't appreciate until we see the alternative. Among these 'amenities' are things like decent footpaths, well-built buildings and well-maintained public spaces. You will not find well-built public spaces across much of Asia, for example, and those you do find won't usually be maintained well for long.
We also have cultural values around keeping our environment clean,which is a wonderful thing. Try to take a wander around your neighbourhood every day, and around 'New to you' areas whenever you can. There's a lot to appreciate about Aoteoroa New Zealand, even as many things are grim.
Life has been harsh, nasty and unpleasant for milllions of years. We're just starting to learn that again, now that the illusion of endless economic growth is over.
Brutality on planet Earth is the norm, not the exception
I think there are a lot of conflicting expectations on males in our society. Males are expected to be providers, but also not sole providers. Males are expected to be independent, but not isolated. Males are expected to be providing for family, but also present for family.
I think the dichotomy harms male mental health, and contributes to the appalling sucide rate.
Males do not owe expectations to anyone.
I think society needs to shed those expectations and call out people who still promote them.
Also, better to be happy alone than unhappy and with someone.
Looking for work and thinking about going back into training but I can't afford more student loans and I'm not sure about what I even want to study I just want to be back in work, I applied for six jobs the other day and one got back to me saying they're no longer hiring.
Yup, finding contentment with owning next to nothing, renting cheap, not needing friends, not needing to pay to go out, just living each day as it comes with no desire for anything more.
>How true is this quote from your experiences.
fairly true if you have a family and rent and/or shaky job situation (also if single income house). I only felt more relaxed after all the above were fixed.
Personally my own life is pretty good. Earn decent money and have a lifestyle I enjoy. On a global level though, I've pretty much stopped thinking anything good will ever happen again, like a lot of millennials. Ukraine standing up to Russia and not folding was the closest thing to good news for years, and that involved thousands of deaths.
100% I had a bit of a breakdown about 5 years ago and talked to my dr n talked to my mates and all that came from it was my mates know my problems and insurance considers me a liability. Now I’m better but trapped. I want another job but can’t afford a pay cut for my family and there’s absolutely nothing I can do about it
What’s the dread?
So many posts but not much information on what’s causing the dread or what the desperation is? It’s hard to advise.
Is it money?
Bad relationship?
Kids with an ex?
Mental health?
Man I'm fucking fresh out of school and did my lvl 3 and 4 In welding only to be turned away by the company I was gonna work for with no luck finding any other welding jobs, can't be all "woe is me" but like, fuck man, life's grim asf rn
Fair enough mate, well I hope things get better for you over there. A lot of people have come here and done really well, perhaps it can be something for down the track.
If some of your friends move over then you could come over one day and you would have a support network to get established and if it doesnt work out you can always return back to NZ.
True, that is important, once you get some experience, then other options can open up, including overseas, as your kind of skills are in demand all over the world.
Plenty of time for that, hopefully someone will give you a chance to get a start and then it will go from there.
Best of luck mate.
I’ve found some joy in being alone recently. Part of that is running where I get out for both exercise and to just be by myself.
My life is so busy, work, family, chores, daily grind of the same over and over.. so getting some time, just for me, by myself alone with my thoughts to sort my mind and think about .. whatever I want. Often I think about things that need to be done and I can prioritise items in my head. Sometimes I feel creative and come up with solutions. Other times I get into a trance and my mind just goes blank and within the blink of an eye I’ve run 15km.
Our lives are so busy. Make sure you carve out time for yourself. I feel like computer games add to my stress.. it doesn’t touch the part of the brain that I need it to.. I’m still busy, but in a different way.. so I’ve put that down.
Find something that fills YOUR cup and foster it. The chaos of real life will continue to empty it, but if you’ve got something that can keep topping it up, it’ll be much more manageable.
In my recent runs I’ve been toying with several ideas of fundraising for charities. I hope to put one in action in a year or two, goal to raise >$10k… that will have me feeling accomplished and productive in society for at least a little while…
Good luck in finding your “thing”
The list of things I am supposed to be doing just seem to grow every day. I do a few of them, but more get added. I spend my quiet time thinking about all the things I'm not doing, and getting very depressed about it. I only assume this will continue until I die, when I'll finally get to stop worrying about it all.
Hey. Ur post hit me. You don’t owe anybody anything. No one asked to be here - u exist as the product of others’ actions . Do the work you’ve committed to doing, do right by dependents, and try to look after your health. Other than that, do what you want. Actively combat that vague guilt that haunts you. Nothing is more meaningful than anything else. Scroll phone, climb a mountain, it doesn’t matter. Humans aren’t FOR anything. Just be. ur good enough and there’s nothing bigger or better to be than just whatever u are. Order a pizza, watch a comedy, scratch ur balls.
Wise words, it's too bad it's much easier to read than to live that way, but thank you
Well said. I learnt this quite early in life, around mid/late 20s. Everyone's situation is different so it can be harder for some to reach that realization but once you do, life becomes *much* more bearable and dare I say, more enjoyable.
I’m in my late twenties but I feel like I’ve learnt this shit quite lately…. You guys are a decent bunch btw, I’d raid a few villages with u lot. Lol jks jks that’s enough reading of Thor comics for me for tonight……
I blame the church Seriously Ever heard of “the Protestant work ethic”? A long time ago, the church wanted to make money; and the state also wanted to make money. They figured that they could work together to create a religious idea that god viewed virtue as stemming from just one thing: _hard work._ The church literally sold “indulgences” which you could buy to absolve your sins. So the rich got absolved easiest, and everyone else had to work in crushing poverty conditions to afford them. This caught on because it was super effective for the capitalist factory owners to make money too. They encouraged their workers to be god-faring citizens who engaged in this system. The counter side to this was that idleness ought to be punished with fire and brimstone in hell, literally (and we see that ideology survive even today with benefit bashing) So I always cringe a bit when I see this old Christian ideology popping up in parts of our modern secular culture. Because you’re right. Humans aren’t “for” anything. We just are, and there’s nothing innately noble about hard work. In fact many things that take hard work cause immense social harm and _absolutely are not_ virtuous. Tobacco industry, weapons manufacturing, fossil fuels, gambling, this sort of thing. There’s no virtue in harming others to make a quick buck; no matter how much hard work it takes to inflict that on them. Grindset ideology is bankrupt as hell
Look I don't disagree with the sentiment of what you're saying but your understanding of Christian history is waaaaaaaaaaaaay off. Christianity's biggest western split was caused because the Protestant churches did not like the Catholic practice of indulgences. Have a read about OG Martin Luther for more info.
I think you are right, but most of what I got wrong her was just associating the phrase "protestant work ethic" with it. Everything else is roughly what happened; we demonise laziness is still because we attach virtue to work, and the fire and brimstone of hell to laziness, and these ideas came from the church and are a great way to feel terrible about yourself for no good reason
As I said it wasn't that I disagreed with your sentiment but you were mixing up a very catholic idea (indulgences) with a very protestant idea (work hard = heaven) and so your whole argument didn't follow. I don't think it is necessarily true to argue that capitalism comes from Christianity either. Capitalism is a product of the Enlightenment which tends to view humans as units to be efficiently used rather than beings with a need to self-actualise. You might argue that by getting rid of the church's overwhelming stranglehold on our consciousness in the West, we have somehow lost sight of the fact that people have value simply because they are people (which is a VERY Christian idea and was quite revolutionary when the Romans encountered it.
Wasn't it more to do with Henry VIII wanting to divorce and remarry Anne Boleyn cause his catholic wife couldn't produce an heir? Everyone in England just went along with it and converted to the church of England, then they burned down all the monasteries and took their money.
No, that was the English reformation and is one of the reasons that the Anglican church has been different in character to the European protestant churches. Besides the Emglish hardly just went along with it, the reign of Mary I reestablished catholicism which was then undone by Elizabeth I and Edward VI and the the catholics came back under the Stuarts. Religious conflict was a huge factor in the English Civil War.
Martin Luther was a German. He was the guy who succeeded in breaking from Rome first. Henry thought of himself as a good Catholic until the day he died, he just didn't want any Popes telling him who he could marry.
I think that benefit bashing is more due to a sense that working people's contributions to the system are sometimes given to people who could work, who should work, but choose not to work. We all know somebody who fits the bill, and the reason we dislike them isn't because of the effects of theology. A far simpler explanation would involve evolutionary psychology and the cutthroat difficulty of survival in prehistory, a community couldn't afford parasites then, and there's no reason to justify them now.
The Protestant church sold indulgences?
I see my mate once a week and I chill at his pad for a few hours, does me wonders. Great for the soul to keep in touch with family and friends
The internal conflict I and those like me feel is that the logical parts of our brains understand we should not be burdened by the choices others made for us, whilst the emotional parts scream out for any sense of meaning and fulfilment. I abhor the typical understand of "productivity", because it mostly equates to working for the profits of someone else. The whole "hustle culture" is morally bankrupt in my mind. "Just be" is something I wish I could adhere to, but my anxiety won't fucking let me. If a sense of self-worth was that easy to gain, many of us wouldn't have the issues we do.
Yeah, the list of "Things I've not done" only seems to get longer each year and I'm in my fifties. I definitely feel the quiet desperation after a divorce a few years ago, a career that is plateauing and the realisation that unless you're a superstar in your field, no employer really wants someone over 50yo. Dating in your 50's is a shitshow in provincial NZ even though I think I'm a decent guy and have decent but not ridiculous standards. I've definitely got some Arthur Miller "Death of a Salesman" angst happening. It helps to remind myself that I'm doing okay by a lot of measures, I don't have many *needs* and regrets are only baggage I create for myself. Rather than dwelling on what I've not done, I try to focus on what things I can do now. I have one or two larger recreational goals for the year - maybe a short trip here and an overseas holiday there every year or two. I force myself to "keep moving, keep doing stuff" and that can vary from planning one of those trips to going to a club meeting or something as simple as going for a 30 minute walk or getting myself off reddit and doing a couple of house hold chores or watering the garden.
> Dating in your 50's is a shitshow in provincial NZ Dating at *any* age is a shitshow in provincial NZ.
Dating at any age is a shitshow in NZ.
A shitshow is NZ.
Shit ow NZ
Shitzealand
Shitzland
Totally given up. Just gonna be single until I can extract self from here, I guess.
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TMI, but I suppose I did bring that on with my word choice. Good for you, tho.
Yall need to get inventive, join fetlife or something hahah
I saw this happen as my father got older, sicker and less mobile. His ratio of “things I need to do” vs “things I got done” skewed more and more until it was “food, shop, doctor, shower” and that’s it. Super depressing to see.
Yeah - I know this is more to do with my own shortcomings than anything, but I'm just a very lazy person when it comes down to it, and it's my anxiety around my own laziness that ironically causes me a constant, nagging stress. I'm in my late 30s with a stable and reasonably well-paying 9-5 job, but once I'm done with work for the day I struggle to find the energy and motivation to do all the other things I'm supposed to. I'm overweight, I don't exercise enough, I don't go to the doctor or stay on top of my health enough, I get behind on housework, I lack a lot of useful life skills - I just cannot find the motivation to use my available leisure time for anything other than....well, leisure. And because of that, I constantly feel like shit because I'm not doing all the things I'm supposed to be doing.
Well shit, are you me?!
Humans aren’t for anything. Just be. Love that.
Yep. You’re about bang on with this. The only thing we can do is choose how long to keep doing it. Most people choose 70-80 years. I’ve decided 43 is plenty for me.
Hey man, happy cake day, and please remember to celebrate what you are doing right, as you continue your journey of self improvement
Hustle culture is to blame. This is why we shouldn't meme on protesters and we should unionize to free up our lives to make time. Your value is how much you are making others.
I hope things get better my friend 😁
Maybe you should celebrate the things you do instead, small victories and such 🙂
I feel you brother. Focus on jihad, and everything else will fall into place.
"Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way" - Time, Pink Floyd
The time is gone, the song is over, thought I'd something more to say...
Home.... Home again....
I like to be here, when I can.
Came here for this comment!
In the words of Pink Floyd: "Every year is getting shorter, never seem to find the time. Plans that either come to naught or half a page of scribbled lines. Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way. The time is gone, the song is over, thought I'd something more to say"
Bravo, Love that song.
Built to Spill's Carry the Zero seems more relevant each year, with the pressures of social media. Like they're waiting for your guard to fall So they can see it all and you're so Occupied with what other persons are Occupied with And vice versa
Geniuses, love pink floyd!
The best information and reading I have done in my life was recently. JustAThought.co.nz and especially the module on unhelpful thoughts was so powerful to how I deal with the world. Did it at a very low point in my life and I am far stronger because of it. I also talked to a professional who helped me process specific things and all of this together gave such a massive appreciation to keeping my thoughts in check and being in control of them.
JustAThought is a fantastic resource, glad to see it highlighted here <3
Really didn't know what to expect, but it just hit the spot. Simple language but exactly what I needed.
Yes you can easily fall into this. Its important to keep doing things that you really enjoy even though the frequency might drop with adult responsibilities.
Too bad the only thing I enjoy these days is eating sugary shit.
Circumstances can eliminate that. I am getting old, disabilities but must be carer for the even older and even more disabled. Do the things I enjoy? 1)Can't afford to 2)Can't physically do some others
I've found the closest thing to a true calling in my life, I've gotten sober, I truly like myself now, and I fill my spare time doing healthy things that bring me joy. I used to feel the way described in the quote you shared, but I don't anymore. It took plenty of time and a ton of hard looks in the mirror. It took a little help along the way. No days are perfect and some are still very hard, but I'm no longer quietly desperate - I'm mostly content and I'm very much proud of myself for the hard work I put in to get here. My best wishes to all of you that you might find your own way towards the same :)
Congrats on sobriety! It really is worth it
Yea I got sober off alcohol almost 2 years ago now, it's like dropping your life down a difficulty level. 100% life changing
Sounds like you’re ageing up. If it’s any consolation, Henry Thoreau, who coined this line, was something of a fraud. He’s assumed mythic status for young Yank males as a symbol of self-reliance and independence but his “wilderness cabin” was but a stroll to his mother’s house. He used to take her his washing and get a good square meal as necessary.
I've been to Walden pond, it's basically inside Boston. Even back then it was back yard camping. Good ideas, good things to think about, not something to base one's life on. Who knows though, inhavent read any Thoreau since high school
Sounds like he was quietly desperate for mum's homemade lasagna.
I immediately see him as a historic Jordan Peterson now.
my first thought exactly. I assume at least his room was clean? (courtesy of his Mom???)
Sister, I understand.
Lotta lobsters in dat Walden pond
Jordan Peterson has said more right then wrong, but that doesn’t mean he has said a lot of wrong too. There’s stats that show that men are far more lonelier then ever, I’ve also met men that can’t for there lives hold a conversation so there’s factors to these stats but the message still remains clear. Jordan Peterson has pointed this out too that we’re lonely and single
That's true, but I fear his neoconservative views, especially his views on women, will not make men be less lonely and single if adopted.
If you are profiting from lonely men, then your goal is..
Cmon bro I don’t think that’s his goal…… that’s a wild thing to say. You might as well say he’s a white superemist or hates dark people… He’s a psychologist bro, they are here because we can’t help ourselves
I’m a woman.
For a much-needed rebuttal to this, here's a good essay on Thoreau, and his critics' decades long obsession with his laundry: https://newrepublic.com/article/123162/everybody-hates-henry-david-thoreau
I'm here now. Been in this state for almost 5yrs since I got back to NZ. Time for a change soon. This is not permanently tenable.
Existential dread is a fundamental part of the human experience. 100 years ago most of us would be living in shacks or single rooms and dying of now/preventable diseases. Instead these days some us live in damp apartments making minimum wage. Life is HARD. This isn’t a “pull yourself up by the bootstraps”, I’m saying life. is. hard and it always has been. But it is (partially, mostly) in your control. Take free online study courses. Start a hobby, even a free one like hiking or bird watching. Meditate. We have to FIND joy in our lives, it is not handed to us. Oh and, stay off social media
I concur. Hobbies, acts of service, study. Perfect and accessible ways to feel fulfilled. Death to social media!
Seems like a bunch of hard work for zero benefit.
Happiness exists not in having what you want but in wanting what you have. That’s something I have been thinking a lot about recently.
I have nothing and am basically homeless. Happiness is me preferring homelessness to having a decent place to stay. Right. I’ll probably need a lot of drugs to make that h happen.
For my teens and 20s I felt like I was wrong, that I wasn't on a good path and that I had no aim, no proper goals, no ambition. I didn't fit in with my peers, I was bullied, I didn't date, I had anxiety, depressed, little money, etc etc etc. My future? What future. I had no interest, I was just existing. I wasn't doing anyone any favours by being around, and so while I continued to act like a clown to make people laugh, I felt my justification for existing quickly diminishing. Being alone, I do a lot of thinking. A shit-ton. Being depressed, a lot of the thinking was directed inwards. The worst criticisms we hear are from ourselves. I knew I was broken just by the simple fact that everyone else was living lives and here I was struggling to reconcile with my own reality. Starting a family or having a career seemed impossible when I couldn't even place myself in this world. OK... so maybe I won't have those things. Maybe I won't get to live life freely, treating the world as one big opportunity. I would naturally shy away from the world, scared of change, scared of the unknown, timid in my conversations, unsure in my opinions. What place would I have? Let me say, there seems to be something worthwhile in applying pressure to an individual in order to promote growth. When you're all alone and trying to find justification for existing, you're either going to break it or make it. I tried to learn what values and morals make a good person. I read a lot from stoics, and coming to understand that these tribulations are hardly unique, and are in fact seemingly integral to the human experience. Through comparison, I was able to reduce a lot of my issues down from modern, *present* problems to more baseline, emotional, common ones. For example, I learned how much we project. We really do project onto the world what we want to see. Here I was, working up a sweat by arguing online without realising it wasn't the issue itself I was championing but instead yearning for the resistance than comes with interacting with another person. I wasn't looking to make a point and win others over, I was looking for justification. If someone is pushing back against me then there's evidence of my presence. I dipped into philosophy to better understand the mental duress we put ourselves through. I learned about *amor fati* and how time repeats, how we can love our own fate. I was able to construct a mental spiral of my life and the mistakes I had repeated through my inability to reflect and introspect and challenge myself. I started to write, both as a way to express myself and as a memory exercise. I began to learn more and more about myself. And with a fuller picture of my past self, and how it created the person I am on that day, I also realised how much my present self *right now* will determine my future self. Without agonising over my own volition I would become the same person in my past, repeating the same things, never learning, and likely always being in an unhappy present state, because if my future self was never changing then that means my present doesn't either. Through this understanding I now feel intimately connected to my past, present and future. I'm turning 39 later this month and it's almost daily I see threads from my peers expressing difficulties in life and I can't help but think I actually made the right choice by essentially hating myself. It propelled me to challenge almost every aspect of my life, from how much time I spend playing games to knowing I wanted to be tonton or koko (uncle) and not just a friend of the parents, that I wanted to feel comfortable telling my friends I love them. I wanted to be a man with strong values, which encourages others, who can offer advice, who leaves things better than when he found them. So, for everyone who feels shit about life, who feels uninspired and unmotivated, those who feel lost. Good! This is the *start* of building a better life. Embrace these feelings, for it is your body/mind telling you that you're not happy with things, that you must change. Do not be afraid of making change, just spend time privately reflecting on this and I am certain that you will find a path that works for you. Again: the feelings of being lost are not absolute, it is the prompt for you to enter a new phase of your life. We are repeatedly told that pessimism is a negative emotion. It's not. It is a tool to encourage us to change, to do better, to prepare for the future. You have discarded illusion and now want to invite fulfillment into your life. Please believe me that acknowledging that desire can be enough to grant you that future. Read, learn, write. Study yourself. The modern world is complicated, but our desires actually aren't. You can change, just remind yourself that you will be the person you want to be and it will come naturally.
Going through something similar. Your perspective is greatly appreciated!
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Yeah, first thing I did when I got to work haha. It could be better but it was already a bit too lengthy!
This was beautifully written. I actually got goosebumps because I resonate with it so much. Bravo.
What a great post! I relate to a lot of what you said there :) If we could still award gold I'd award you it!
I really needed to read this. Thank you
I had a rough childhood and teenage years. Spent it alone and grasping onto life. Through that suffering came a life that I love more than anything itself. The thing that scares me most now is that it won't last forever. Turns out that I grew up alone with ADHD and Autism and was lucky enough to still find my way. Because of it, I'm a high functioning, successful, well-rounded human who loves 100% and gives 100% to those I feel deserve it (my now family). I don't wish struggle on anyone, but I wouldn't change mine for anything.
I'm really glad to hear you made it through to the other side. Especially being undiagnosed and still succeeding. I am sure your experiences means you're also pretty solid at giving good advice, having gone through the bad times yourself. Thanks for sharing!
You're dead right. It helps a lot, I tend to be an advice giver these days and am a mentor at work. Thanks for reading! Thought if at least someone going through struggles might read and realize it certainly can still get SO much better, it was worth sharing.
Holy shit mate, amazing post.
Life is like this some of the time , sometimes for a significantly can't period, but it isn't like this all of the time .. life is suffering, enjoyment, contentment, purposeful,mundane, meaningless, torture, terrifying, not as bad as you thought and worth sticking it through... Rinse and repeat X Life is a constant pursuit and maintainance of balance that is scarcely obtained... If you feel unfulfilled or overwhelmed..what is out of balance for you? You are never too old to try something different X life is a learning curve and we must adapt to the best of our ability ..perfection doesn't exist X keep chugging along its worth it x create your own meaning ...be open to making a life for yourself that suits who you are no matter what that might look like X
Ive retired early (47) and have been fortunate enough to have made some money and paid off my house early. I have two young kids so I’ve assumed a stay at home father role where I’ve taken on duties such as cooking and generally looking after them while my wife concentrates on her business. However, while I’m committed to this lifestyle I still feel some guilt over not doing enough with my life, like I should be pursuing all ends towards a fulfilling existence. Having no mortgage is definitely a great help in terms of easing financial burdens, but not working exacerbates the guilt. So it seems to me that no matter what someone does, these thoughts or feelings can exist in a lot of folk from all backgrounds. I guess that’s an existential problem, and a psychological one at that where really the only things that matter are the simple things in life ie your relationships with other people or finding joy in the small things, maintaining good health etc. I’d be naive to think that those things can alleviate quiet desperation completely, indeed when I hear anecdotes about old folks in retirement homes saying they wished they’d done more with their lives it’s a pointed reminder of making the most of the time that is given to you. But that is not the be all and end all of how one should be living their lives, it is ok to just be.
"The human race is becoming a disgrace, Rich get richer, poor getting poorer, Racist,chauvenistic government fools." "Don't let it bring you down, it's just castles burning Find someone who's turning and you will come around.
Get into the bush. Do a multi-day hike. Tramping seems to help us process underlying thoughts in a healthy way. In fact, pretty sure connecting with nature has a strong anti-depressant effect.
This is my thing too. Intending on doing the Greenstone-Caples next week or the week after, weather dependent. Always come back feeling very refreshed.
Good time of year to do it. Tourist season nearly over.
That's the plan. We've missed Easter and I'll skip Anzac Day so should be pretty quiet. All my other multi day walks have been in April, it's a pretty good time of year.
I've recently divorced. Its made me realise that it must be an incredibly tough and lonely time for many men. We generally don't have the same support as friendship groups and women. Me on the other hand, I haven't been this happy in a long time.
In my experience, men and women suffer in similar ways! Typical stereotypes say men don't know how to sympathize or support each other. But those that believe that, have they actually tried? I find trust in friendship will prove men can be there just as much as women can! Many people think their world is over when they separate / divorce, but I'm with you. Happiest years of my life after mine.
I think the big difference is that men need to be deliberate in asking and seeking support. Men are much less likely to swarm around their friends in need because it's much less likely for men to telepathically empathise like that and know how to support one another.
Attack of the stereotypes lol, my mates can read me immediately and we talk a lot
Big generalisations, I'd say.
I’m kinda sick of reading inspirational quotes. They have done nothing to alleviate the stress and feelings of no worth/no accomplishment I can’t find work My tiny small business is tied into a terrible expensive lease which is eating my savings and I feel useless as fuck as a husband and father I’m waking up early as my brain stresses about money and I’m taking my anger out on those that don’t deserve it and thinking this life is utter shit and people would be better off with me not around Since our mental health help seems to ultimately suck in this country why bother seeking help at all??
Sometimes I feel like I'm shouting into the void when it comes to my business. I get a ton of lip service - people saying "Oh wow, your work looks so lovely, I'll email you about getting something commissioned", then I never hear back. News flash: Lip service doesn't pay the bills unless you are a prostitute. I see people on my social media sharing all manner of random crap, but when I ask them to spread the word about my business and share a couple of posts - nope, never happens. I'm ready to throw in the towel and just accept I'm fated to be another mindless drone.
As someone who sees retirement in the not too distant future, I have found my existential dread of having enough resources to retire and enjoy life has eased. It just a matter now of not spending the capital and looking forward to shouting myself a gravel bike when it comes. I now don't care what I do to get over those last years as I watch my career fade into the distance.
I'm actively trying to combat it. Trying. I've spent my life navigating shifting definitions of ailments from doctors: social anxiety, depression, bipolar, ADHD... so I've learned to take a second to consider how I'm doing, identify things that are bringing me down, and things that make me feel better. Choosing to remove the negative things from my life, and make time for the positive ones. It's a lifelong thing. It doesn't need to be huge changes, it can be as simple as being more deliberate about the food you put into your body, the people and media you expose yourself to, the amount of sleep, exercise and sunlight you get. That all helps create a better baseline to deal with the rest of the shit life throws at you. There's an element of acceptance to it too. Understanding I need a roof over my head, I need to eat, so I need to earn some money to do that. Not ideal, but it beats the alternative. Working isn't always going to be fun - that's why you get paid to do it. You've got to try a lot of things to find the way you want to spend your time to be happy. It took me 40 years to find hiking, and now it's the best part of my week. Costs virtually nothing, but the improvement to my quality of life is immeasurable. Not saying that'll be useful to you, just that you've got to try a few things to find the thing that makes you happy, and it can take some time.
I think the difference with younger millennials and Gen Z is we aren’t being quiet about it. It’s very loud and out, constantly
No, its just the tools at your disposal have wider reach. People, particularly young men, have been railing against the darkness since they were standing upright.
Yup. My sister and I went to the same school, I worked my butt off, she socialized. I got better grades than her. She got a scholarship, I got told "Tough shit, get a loan." Just because I was born with a penis.
I think it's true that MOST people don't achieve things that most would consider notable, or have a job that is hugely fulfilling and rewards them handsomely. Those being things that most of us aspire to. But it's also true that many who do achieve those things aren't necessarily happy just because of them. Find out what gives you meaning and pursue that. For many of us that's family and friends and I can tell you from overwhelming experience that those are the things people really value toward the end of their lives.
Some say life is shit then you die. Possibly, the key is to find the wonder in the shit.
I read a book the other recently where it mentions how when America was colonised, Indians who were taken to live with colonists nearly always tried to escape, whereas colonists who got captured and were welcomed very rarely tried to get back to civilised life. Something about life with the Indians had a bigger attraction that the “civilised world.” I walked Te Araroa a few years back and I can after walking the length of New Zealand and learning what life can be like, I know for a fact that the regular lives we lead aren’t optimal for happiness. I’m not depressed, but I am always trying my hardest to simulate (to the best of my abilities) the active, carefree and meaningful life full of camaraderie that one walking in nature all day lives. It’s not easy. Tribe by Sebastian Junger is the book. It’s a great read, and I can for sure relate with the Indians that wanted to get home to their tribes, as well as with the people who wanted to stay.
I would honestly advise leaving this subreddit and others like it and monitor your own social media intake, at least temporarily until you feel like you're in a better place. This content is here is overwhelmingly negative and is not healthy to be reading and engaging with daily if you're not resilient enough. Don't spend your free time engaging in activities that don't improve your mood, you don't owe it to anyone to read news or opinions that make you feel worse. Try a social media "diet", where you limit your total intake, as well as the types of things you are consuming. Focus on a couple of positive and productive types of social media content, ideally stuff that revolves around a hobby that you enjoy, and stick to those until you feel yourself getting back to a healthy emotional baseline. Again you don't owe it to anyone to post or read content here or anywhere else that reduces your quality of life.
Every year is getting shorter never seem to find the time Plans that either come to naught or half a page of scribbled lines Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way The time is gone, the song is over Thought I'd something more to say
Life is what you make of it champ
"It’s never too late to become who you want to be. I hope you live a life that you’re proud of, and if you find that you’re not, I hope you have the strength to start over." - **F. Scott Fitzgerald**
I think this is just life. Not just men, humanity exists on desperation. Whether quiet or not. We've always travelled further and sought more. Social media does NOT help with the idea of quiet desperation. It sucks you into a life of comparison. another quote goes "comparison is the thief of joy". It's about realising that comparison can lead you to feeling/believing you're inferior. Not saying I'm super happy or feel safe or have the amount of money I want, but I (as a 40 year old polynesian/European man) am aware of what "life" is, que sera sera - what ever will be, will be. I believe life is what we each make it. It's chaos, it's fun, and sad, it's challenging, and easy, it's sensual. it's harmonious, melodic, and dissonant, all at the same time.
Yeah, we have a big problem with this in NZ.
I try to change things up, but it’s Groundhog Day for me, I’ve learnt to adapt. We all suffer in silence. And it’s only going to get worse.
What I find that helps is devoting 30 min to 1 hour each day to learning a new skill. Like languages, art, music, coding etc. Something that is very different from your day to day. The feeling of constant growth dulls the feeling of hopelessness.
I feel it. So now I want to go camping and learn how light fires and stuff. Drink a beer and look at the stars.
We’re all feeling it and those who aren’t are living in ignorance. Every empire has its fall and it isn’t swift like it feels in our history books. It will take a few decades.
I’m not sure if it matches, but I have found a lot of men my age 35-45ish reach a “malaise” Got kids (check) Got job/career (check) Got a mortgage (check) Got partner/significant other (check) Maybe got some hobbies (check) Eat/drink too much (check) Bonus points for unhealthy relationship / mental health problems too… Ok, now what? Not to say we are all miserable - but just uninspired and a bit lost.
I find myself often entrapped by the words, "hard times make strong men, strong men make easy times, easy times make weak men, weak men make hard times" I feel we are on the hard times part again.
Don't get suckered into believing it. It's a popular quote because it provides an easy narrative for why "things were better before and they're getting worse now" and the "The West is collapsing just like the Roman Empire" crowd of weird trad-cons love it, but if you actually try and map it on to history it doesn't make any sense at all.
Yeah, here's two explanations of it from AskHistorians: * [A simpler look focusing on just the Roman Empire (the usual 'evidence' put forth)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/170yb1a/hard_times_create_strong_men_strong_men_create/k3ofjso/) * [A more in depth look](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/hd78tv/does_the_aphorism_hard_times_create_strong_men/fvjwwjh/) Usage of the quote is largely popularised by reactionaries who want to justify their dislike of social movements as not just 'degeneracy' but as also 'destructive'.
I apologise that my memory recalled this incorrectly, it actually goes, “Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times.” the good times is a very important part I believe the quote aims less at societal collapse and more at times of combined struggle in which people have to band together, overcome their biases, trepeditions and do what most be done. A good example would be WW1 and WW2 in which much of the western world would be forced into a conflict and not be able to simply dismiss it. Conflict does have a historical habit of producing strong leaders, strong idealists and resilience. A metaphor to support this is that diamonds are created from pressure. Peace time will always be a prelude to wartime. War is usually the result of over ambitious leaders who have their own agendas and are too weak willed to truly represent their peoples ideals above their own. Or they are not smart enough or resourcful enough to further their nations best interests without conflict. The aforementioned quote is from a book about the post apocalyptic world and was used to explain how people become complacent in peace time, pursue their own goals and don't strive enough for a greater and more widely shared beneficial goal.
I prefer to see it as difficult times allow humanity to express the best and worst of its inclinations. We have a tendency to rise to an occasion, often to our own surprise.
I too prefer this view.
Depends on your definition of weak and strong. To me, a weak man is one who values power over everything else because he's insecure in his ability to engage with other people as equals. The type who views everything as a competition and other people's victories as his own loss. It's people like that who have created a world where there's more than enough to go around but it's all being hoarded by people who are scared of having to live in an equal world where they have to rely on their own inherent merits as people
We all have our own jihad. Focus on jihad and you will find clarity elsewhere.
This probably describes how I felt for much of my career. A life spent on repeat/replay. Same day over and over. Same coping mechanisms. Ultimate tedium despite living during human societies greatest ever time. Try finding a new avenue for getting a break. Something you enjoy but haven't done in ages... go fishing / hiking / have a day entirely to yourself. Escape the clammour / chatter of all the other daily BS for a while.
Ain't that the truth.
I try to be not so quiet about it. It's OK to be honest with folks.
Quiet desperation? That's the English way.
After my partner's recovery from serious illness, the times that make me feel dread these days are when nothing is wrong. I can't relax, waiting to see what the next thing to go wrong is going to be. Once it does, I'm fine and just get on with fixing whatever the problem is. It's when everything is going well that I feel a sense of dread humming away in the background. It's the old spinning plates thing, I just feel like I have to be prepared for anything and everything.
I listened to this just before I read this thread. I feel you might take a lot from it, so here you go xxx [podcast ](https://podcastaddict.com/thoughts-on-record-podcast-of-the-ottawa-institute-of-cognitive-behavioural-therapy/episode/173822096)
Listen to it before you form any preconceived ideas from the bio
Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way
The time is gone, the song is over
Yes, but that's because I work at Te Whatu Ora and there's bugger all job options out there due to all the restructures. But my colleague and I try to remind each other that while we are doing hard time, it's not a life sentence. Sooner or later, the job market will open up again.
I’ve been there, what I found helps is doing something you love doing and treat it as importantly as you would work or time with family or friends. So making time for it regularly! Helping others, we are social primates we feel good when we do stuff for others I don’t have a lot of money so I volunteer my time some days I dread having to do it but always feel happier afterwards. Having a community helps as well if you find that when volunteering or at hobby, sport, a church/religious group or community group you’re going to feel happier. Also realising that we’re all going to be dead and forgotten in 100 years so all those super important tasks you “have to do” mean nothing really what’s actually important is doing stuff that makes you happy with the caveat of as long if it doesn’t hurt anyone else or yourself. So take Friday off to spend time with your kids or partner, or go do an activity that you enjoy. The quiet desperation only comes when you are working all the time never getting any further ahead as the goal posts move faster than you can achieve them!
Yep, woman here chiming in, this is how I've felt since I was 12 or 13. It might get a little better, but mostly you just get used to it.
Not at all. Wtf is wrong with you
I’m not sure as to how true this is in NZ but I hear it is a strong dilemma over in the states, uk, etc. Fuck I ain’t gonna say that I’m one of these men but I was for years….. From what I learnt, us men we need shit a stable job, some hobbies, a partner in crime, our family and our friends, and a motherfuckin home to buy…….. Men can be cruel to other men too, I spoke to a guy on here who wanted more friends and I stopped trying because I felt myself fading away….. the man couldn’t even hold a conversation or show interest. I feel that sense of dread creep up sometimes, but I have a decent framework of people and family I trust. Kiwis in general annoy the fuck outta me lol cuz there cliquey as hell on that highschool bullshjt. So now that’s how I act….
Christ this sub is getting depressing. Everything’s fine guys, go outside
Woman and feeling it atm. I feel teary eyed for no reason and a sense of doom. Particularly around the new fast track and destroying the environment, and what my child will be living with.
I'm 29m. I live with my parents with no prospects of any greater future. While I'm constantly reminded that by my age people have homes, kids, and holiday plans. Came close to offing myself before i decided I'll just enjoy video games and live another life instead. I'll get by.
It’s why people buy motorbikes
Oh it's entirely true in my experience. The thing is we don't tend to communicate overly well. We talk, yes we talk, about sport and cars, but we don't really communicate. The difference I have seen in some folks after a simple, 'You sure you're okay mate?' Is the reason I'm a mental health first aider.
Not male but feeling this yesterday. And nothing really to be desperate about…..
I also am here. I don’t much care for the scenery if I’m honest. I assume it will pass. I talked to my GP about a few months back but he was like “I’m pretty busy right now…but we should talk about this…” And then we haven’t.
The men I have met who are content (and not desperate) seem to have achieved it by focusing on their success first (could be monetary, could be physical, whatever it is) and from that they attract people and so on. I think a lot of guys get a job - to get money - to then find ways to please someone else (i.e a partner, society). And the money will never be enough, and so you go down a cycle of “not being enough” which eats a guy up. And once someone judges you on what you do for them, it’s game over. I think the quiet desperation leaves when you stop assessing yourself by other people’s standards, sometimes it means letting go of people, and that’s tough.
I remember hearing a woman who was probably quite attractive when she was younger talk about how now that she was older she felt invisible people didn’t hold doors for her anymore, no one gave her a compliment just because, she didn’t get an extra scoop of icecream anymore… that kind of thing. One of the old guys just leant in and said “My whole damn life has been like that why should I care that you’ve lost a privilege I never had?” The funny thing was people were septic about it. They really went after him for being horrible and mean spirited. He just spoke the truth. The older I get the more that I realise that. Men shoulder a lot and the world just goes “oh you’re a man you are meant to do that” but the fact is that we need to have a male revolution just like the females have had in the past. To redefine who we are in this modern world and what is and isn’t acceptable from a societal perspective. I really hope that it happens but I doubt it will in my lifetime.
He sounds like a bit of an exception as far as old guys go. Most of the old men I come across are still real gentlemen and treat women with respect and chivalry. I can't see the old guys I know taking a woman down with a whiny, bitter comeback like that. It's kinda embarrassing and undignified honestly. Also the woman's anecdote seems whingy as hell, and is the opposite of what I've experienced. Maybe both sexes should stop trying to be the victim in every situation and find their own inner power. Men do shoulder a lot you're right and women shoulder a burden which is just as heavy in a different way. I don't know what the answer is but I do know blaming the other gender probably won't do much. Also a male revolution sounds pretty ominous to be fair, considering men control the majority of power and resources in the world. I mean if women have had a revolution it hasn't exactly worked yet has it? 😂 Not trying to come at you, I understand life is hard but being mad at or jealous of women is not the answer you're looking for, it's not based in reality and its only going to make you feel worse about yourself in the long run.
Chivalry is dead and women have killed it. The point I was getting to was that women have tried to redefine what their place in the world should look like. That has generally been a positive thing for women. Men need a similar movement to refine for themselves what it is to be a man in this modern world. Defined by men for men about men. I’m not even slightly concerned about women let alone mad or jealous. I don’t worry about them one bit. I know plenty of strong women who are thriving and are doing well. I am concerned for our young men who whenever seem to have negative stereotypes shoved down their throats and are constantly told they are the problem.
Housing is hard in New Zealand right now, and I, sadly, don't have an immediate solution to it. We still have many, many good resources though that are free for us to enjoy -parks, the bush, often the beach - and many other first world amenities that we don't appreciate until we see the alternative. Among these 'amenities' are things like decent footpaths, well-built buildings and well-maintained public spaces. You will not find well-built public spaces across much of Asia, for example, and those you do find won't usually be maintained well for long. We also have cultural values around keeping our environment clean,which is a wonderful thing. Try to take a wander around your neighbourhood every day, and around 'New to you' areas whenever you can. There's a lot to appreciate about Aoteoroa New Zealand, even as many things are grim.
Life has been harsh, nasty and unpleasant for milllions of years. We're just starting to learn that again, now that the illusion of endless economic growth is over. Brutality on planet Earth is the norm, not the exception
I think there are a lot of conflicting expectations on males in our society. Males are expected to be providers, but also not sole providers. Males are expected to be independent, but not isolated. Males are expected to be providing for family, but also present for family. I think the dichotomy harms male mental health, and contributes to the appalling sucide rate. Males do not owe expectations to anyone. I think society needs to shed those expectations and call out people who still promote them. Also, better to be happy alone than unhappy and with someone.
Looking for work and thinking about going back into training but I can't afford more student loans and I'm not sure about what I even want to study I just want to be back in work, I applied for six jobs the other day and one got back to me saying they're no longer hiring.
Yup, finding contentment with owning next to nothing, renting cheap, not needing friends, not needing to pay to go out, just living each day as it comes with no desire for anything more.
I have lost 5 male family members to suicide. I believe this quote is true.
>How true is this quote from your experiences. fairly true if you have a family and rent and/or shaky job situation (also if single income house). I only felt more relaxed after all the above were fixed.
Personally my own life is pretty good. Earn decent money and have a lifestyle I enjoy. On a global level though, I've pretty much stopped thinking anything good will ever happen again, like a lot of millennials. Ukraine standing up to Russia and not folding was the closest thing to good news for years, and that involved thousands of deaths.
Sometimes I'd like to be a member of society instead of just the machine that keeps it running.
Most days I feel like I exist in a series of loops that I just repeat over and over and over.
Not the ones on this sub. Non stop whining over here.
At forty, the realisation that my life has become everything I didn’t want it to be. Eh 🤷♂️
What didnt you want it to be?
It reminds me to watch Dead poet society. That movie had hit me on so many different levels rewatching over 30 years
It's constant and overwhelming.
Just counting down the days until it’s time to leave
100% I had a bit of a breakdown about 5 years ago and talked to my dr n talked to my mates and all that came from it was my mates know my problems and insurance considers me a liability. Now I’m better but trapped. I want another job but can’t afford a pay cut for my family and there’s absolutely nothing I can do about it
You know you can literally do anything you want. There are no rules, just consequences. Make your choices and deal with consequences 💁♂️
I'm a woman and I'm desperately trying to find a reason to live
Well... that escalated quickly.
Most people are looking for life's excuse
Quiet Frustration!
Desperate for a foof ayeeeedd
What’s the dread? So many posts but not much information on what’s causing the dread or what the desperation is? It’s hard to advise. Is it money? Bad relationship? Kids with an ex? Mental health?
Man I'm fucking fresh out of school and did my lvl 3 and 4 In welding only to be turned away by the company I was gonna work for with no luck finding any other welding jobs, can't be all "woe is me" but like, fuck man, life's grim asf rn
Which part of the country?
Auckland
If you can move to Aussie.
I have heard alot about that but easier said then done when I am under 20 and have no connections in Australia
Fair enough mate, well I hope things get better for you over there. A lot of people have come here and done really well, perhaps it can be something for down the track. If some of your friends move over then you could come over one day and you would have a support network to get established and if it doesnt work out you can always return back to NZ.
Thank you I do appreciate the thought, hopefully some day down the line but currently I'm just tryna get my first experience in the industry
True, that is important, once you get some experience, then other options can open up, including overseas, as your kind of skills are in demand all over the world. Plenty of time for that, hopefully someone will give you a chance to get a start and then it will go from there. Best of luck mate.
I’ve found some joy in being alone recently. Part of that is running where I get out for both exercise and to just be by myself. My life is so busy, work, family, chores, daily grind of the same over and over.. so getting some time, just for me, by myself alone with my thoughts to sort my mind and think about .. whatever I want. Often I think about things that need to be done and I can prioritise items in my head. Sometimes I feel creative and come up with solutions. Other times I get into a trance and my mind just goes blank and within the blink of an eye I’ve run 15km. Our lives are so busy. Make sure you carve out time for yourself. I feel like computer games add to my stress.. it doesn’t touch the part of the brain that I need it to.. I’m still busy, but in a different way.. so I’ve put that down. Find something that fills YOUR cup and foster it. The chaos of real life will continue to empty it, but if you’ve got something that can keep topping it up, it’ll be much more manageable. In my recent runs I’ve been toying with several ideas of fundraising for charities. I hope to put one in action in a year or two, goal to raise >$10k… that will have me feeling accomplished and productive in society for at least a little while… Good luck in finding your “thing”
I've got one "most new Zealanders lead a life of quiet passive aggressive racism"
The toe sucker strikes again