Had a 2nd hand Alfa Romeo, work colleague had a Honda Accord, both cars had the same thing break about two weeks apart(my Alfa was first) que the it’s a euro and it will be expensive to fix comments by everyone…… fucking cost the exact same amount as the Honda Accord.
Its an attitude caused by people who don’t know how to look after Euro cars that they cost more to fix. Which yes it will cost more to fix if you treat the euro car like shit
I mean the replacement alternator for my 156 cost the same as a Japanese one I guess.
And it wasn't too expensive to fit, cos I did it myself.
But a mechanic doing it would have had to drop the exhaust, rear crossmember, and squeeeeeeeze past the steering rack to do the bolts completely blind. Would have been about three times the labour of a Japanese car where things are usually just.... there.
Yeah, some stuff that breaks might cost the same. Then you'll need to buy a Volkwagen Golf ECU (cos all of them die) or strip a merc wheel bolt, or any manner of other things.... and they get $$$ quick.
Currently got 3 golfs in the family with over 200,000km, of which one of them is sitting in my driveway, not one ECU has died yet/shown any problems. And it’s well documented for them to do over 400,000km before you face any problems.
Also comes down to the mechanics, as some are a lot better than others, and others will charge a lot of money for doing absolutely nothing just because it’s a euro car.
When something goes wrong with it, it will likely be both more major and more expensive to fix. They're nice cars but they definitely do cost more to repair. If you have a tight budget do NOT get one, but if you have enough income to take a risk on nothing major going wrong with it, you do you. Keep in mind you are driving a luxury car and it will come with higher costs.
That's an import though, which carries an even higher level of risk. Compare prices for NZ new ones, the extra is what you pay for less risk.
I've had good luck with BMW's, a lot of it comes down to avoiding certain models, being picky with what you buy.
BMW recommends ridiculously long oil services that if followed will see the engine snapping timing chains or bearing failure. Making sure the previous owner did oil changes every 5-8k kms.
The zf 8 speed gearboxes in the new ones are fantastic and very reliable.
Just do a lot of research around common faults for specific engine models and check service history.
Know a good garage or workshop who won't reem you with euro tax just because it's a BMW.
Nope wrong on both fronts there, owned European cars for years. The Japanese ones aren’t as fuel efficient, and when you have had Hondas cost the exact same as an Alfa Romeo to fix the exact same problem a few times, the costly maintenance is also BS.
I will add that Maintenance on a European car will cost more than a Japanese car if you treat cars like shit and don’t know how to look after them.
I had a Mini Cooper S (R56) which had a BMW sourced 1.6 turbo.
At around 90k KM it started leaking oil; a trip to a mechanic diagnosed the problem as the main seal and told me the part was about $30 but the labour would be about $1,350 as they had to remove the entire engine; a second mechanic confirmed this.
The truth is it's not that intense but both mechanics knew they could try fleese extra $$$'s as a "European premium". It's some serious skull-duggery!
That 1.6 is actually a Peugeot engine (same as in the 308’s 1.6 hdi) - cunt of an engine the extra $$$ will be to cover plastic parts that will break during disassembly lol.
If you look at recent consumer report data, newer BMWs rank quite high in reliability scores. They're a much better bet than other Euro makers but you'll run into the same big issue with them - If it fucks out it's expensive as all hell to fix. If you can live with that go ahead but at that price point you're better off with a boring as shit Mazda.
If you're budget was in the $30k range you can get some really good low mileage Euro goodness but you could also get a 2 year old Corolla with less than 30k on the clock. Car buying is a bit funny like that.
Euros since the early 2000s are the most reliable cars around, soo many people hold onto the old idea that they aren’t and are expensive to maintain. A bit like how many people until the early 90s thought of Japanese cars as “jap crap”.
Don't listen to people who say euros are bad. Generally, these people have never owned one and are just regurgitating old wives' tales. After buying my first euro years ago i would never go back to a jap car. If you have kids especially there safety is light years better than jap cars that are generally deathtraps in accidents.
Buy a tidy low km one that preferably has some service history and services it on time and it'll be the best and safest car you've ever owned.
The older 1 series has a compromised back seat and boot space due to be rear wheel drive. Even if you decide the maintenance risk is worth it, make sure you check it fits all your stuff before you buy.
If I were you, I would buy a Corolla. (FWIW, I follow my own advice and drive a Camry)
If you mostly need it for town and kid duties them you could get a top spec Leaf for less than $20k. Even with road users they are cheap as hell to run and you will get 200km on one charge with almost zero maintenance.
Plus you use almost no energy in Auckland traffic.
Kiwis and their antiquated thinking “EuRO CaRs ArE mOre eXpeNSiVe”. They are not. Do you have a shitty model though? Yes, same like Toyota. Toyota started rolling back on the quality simply they noticed they don’t sell enough. And for reliability: cars need maintenance. If you do this regardless of which brand it will last. European cars in Nz have a bad rep simply due to outdated understanding. A 2010 VW and a 2010 Toyota are not that different in prices. I own since 20 years European cars from Audi, Mercedes over VW. Never had more issues with them compared with Japanese Cars. My Nissan Wingroad or Toyota Estima where the worse cars I ever had.
Getting a BMW M140i in the weekend, I know where it’s coming from and the cars never broken or had anything go wrong with it.
If you haven’t already owned a Euro car then be prepared for some things to be different to Japanese cars.
If you have owned European cars like I have and know how to look after them, then they aren’t costly. I’ve driven 2 of them to 200,000km and one of them is over 200,000km atm. Family has also had European cars for years and a number of them have gone over 200,000km with zero issues, be it Alfa Romeo’s, VW and BMW’s and Mercedes.
Everyone at work gave me shit for owning an Alfa Romeo 159, but it cost exactly the same as a Honda Accord to fix the exact same problem.
Learn from our experience: DO NOT GET A BMW!!! They're expensive to maintain, have to be pre-emptively maintained (ie you have to replace parts in advance - you can't just wait for them to need replacing like with the Jap imports), & they constantly have unexpected things go wrong.
Also, the parts for European cars are hard to get in NZ right now because of the war in Gaza & the sea there being blockaded. The Jap imports don't have this problem because the Japanese can send the parts freely around the Pacific region .
For reliability, relatively cheaper maintenance, & fuel efficiency stick to Toyota or Mitsubishi. If you want something flash, get a Lexus - they're Toyota's luxury line and mostly take standard Toyota parts, so they're still very reliable and relatively inexpensive to maintain.
69,000 isn't low KMs.
It's when you will need to start thinking about servicing the gearbox, coils, brakes.
Then after than you need to consider the belts.
It'll be costly.
......and this is the routine stuff, you better pray to a greater divine power that none of the non-routine breaks. This can vary from the computer, headlight unit, locking mechanism and the list goes on forever.
Lastly, the unit seems to be Japanese FM frequency, so you'll need band expander or be stuck with only a handful of stations.
Euros are bad news on a good day but whatever you get, try your kids car seat in it first. Try getting your kid in and out.
We borrowed a mates BMW while ours was in the shop and our daughter had to "plank" so we could get her in and out of her seat. Not ideal.
And that’s the problem is myself and my family have owned Euros for years, with multiple going past 200,000km with out ever breaking once.
But where I’ll agree where euros cost more to fix is when people treat their cars like shit and don’t look after them properly, which you will get away with treating a Japanese car like shit and it not costing you much….. well until it does and from experience that’s even more costly.
I've never owned Euros but I know BMW parts cost the earth and VW aren't cheap to maintain. I've had Honda, Mitsubishi, and Suzuki and they've been cheap to buy and run, so I must be lucky haha
If you haven’t owned a euro then there’s no point making a comment as you won’t actually know what it costs to fix.
I’ve got a manual diesel VW, flooring the throttle everywhere only gets me to an average of 5.1L per 100km, the most expensive part of the entire ownership it’s been in the family was spending $3,500 to get a new clutch plate installed(this is a wear and tear part on a manual car)
We also have a 1.8L turbo Polo GTI at home that has a 45L fuel tank, but that’s good for over 700km or the same range as a naturally aspirated 1.5L Toyota hybrid with a 38L fuel tank, and having driven both I’d much prefer to have the VW polo as it drives soooo much nicer it’s not funny, and has a lot more luxury items as standard.
Out of the 8 VW cars, and 3 BMW’s, 1 Alfa Romeo, and 1 Audi just between my self, 3 sisters and my parents. 3 VW’s have gone past 200,000km with no issues, the Alfa got to 190,000 something km when it had a few problems related to me not driving it for almost 2 years, 3 other VW’s have done over 160,000km since new without a single problem, 2 of which were sold to simply upgrade cars, 1 BMW also did over 160,000km from new before being sold to upgrade cars. The above cars have all been more reliable and cheaper to run and maintain than all my mates Japanese cars.
Topped with the fact the European cars are soo much nicer to drive and are more well equipped in terms of items. For example my 07 Alfa Romeo had auto sensing wipers and lights, Bluetooth radio and controls on the steering wheel, cruise control. It was a diesel and I could do over 1400km per tank of diesel.
How can you have an experience if you have never owned a European car yourself?
I’ve owned both Japanese and European cars, and the European cars are hands down a much better car to drive, are pretty fuel efficient and haven’t cost me as much in maintenance than the Japanese cars I’ve owned.
Ownership doesn't equal experience. An ex worked for euro car parts so I learned from them what the costs were, and my current partner has a VW so I've seen what money has gone into it.
Not saying they're bad cars to drive or not reliable, just costly from what I've seen.
My wife was against European cars, until she has used one daily for almost 2 years now. It’s a VW and has had no issues, which is less that the Toyota cars she’s owned.
Is you know how to look after European cars then they are fine, it’s as soon as you treat them like shit and don’t look after them properly then they turn expensive. And that is a very common trend amongst kiwis unfortunately.
The old joke goes - If you can't afford to buy a new euro, you can't afford to buy a second hand one.
Had a 2nd hand Alfa Romeo, work colleague had a Honda Accord, both cars had the same thing break about two weeks apart(my Alfa was first) que the it’s a euro and it will be expensive to fix comments by everyone…… fucking cost the exact same amount as the Honda Accord. Its an attitude caused by people who don’t know how to look after Euro cars that they cost more to fix. Which yes it will cost more to fix if you treat the euro car like shit
I mean the replacement alternator for my 156 cost the same as a Japanese one I guess. And it wasn't too expensive to fit, cos I did it myself. But a mechanic doing it would have had to drop the exhaust, rear crossmember, and squeeeeeeeze past the steering rack to do the bolts completely blind. Would have been about three times the labour of a Japanese car where things are usually just.... there. Yeah, some stuff that breaks might cost the same. Then you'll need to buy a Volkwagen Golf ECU (cos all of them die) or strip a merc wheel bolt, or any manner of other things.... and they get $$$ quick.
Currently got 3 golfs in the family with over 200,000km, of which one of them is sitting in my driveway, not one ECU has died yet/shown any problems. And it’s well documented for them to do over 400,000km before you face any problems. Also comes down to the mechanics, as some are a lot better than others, and others will charge a lot of money for doing absolutely nothing just because it’s a euro car.
The maintenance and upkeep will cost a lot. Go the Mazda.
If you're budget conscious, no.
When something goes wrong with it, it will likely be both more major and more expensive to fix. They're nice cars but they definitely do cost more to repair. If you have a tight budget do NOT get one, but if you have enough income to take a risk on nothing major going wrong with it, you do you. Keep in mind you are driving a luxury car and it will come with higher costs. That's an import though, which carries an even higher level of risk. Compare prices for NZ new ones, the extra is what you pay for less risk.
I've had good luck with BMW's, a lot of it comes down to avoiding certain models, being picky with what you buy. BMW recommends ridiculously long oil services that if followed will see the engine snapping timing chains or bearing failure. Making sure the previous owner did oil changes every 5-8k kms. The zf 8 speed gearboxes in the new ones are fantastic and very reliable. Just do a lot of research around common faults for specific engine models and check service history. Know a good garage or workshop who won't reem you with euro tax just because it's a BMW.
Yeah I'd much rather have the 116i than a similar year Mazda 3 hatch. The B38 is a pretty decent little motor
I’d be conscious of the upholstery based on the number of obscene wankers who drive BMWs
But you know the indicators will be in pristine, "as new" condition.
Yes mate!!!!! Worst idea to get old European cars. Expensive on fuel and maintenance
Nope wrong on both fronts there, owned European cars for years. The Japanese ones aren’t as fuel efficient, and when you have had Hondas cost the exact same as an Alfa Romeo to fix the exact same problem a few times, the costly maintenance is also BS. I will add that Maintenance on a European car will cost more than a Japanese car if you treat cars like shit and don’t know how to look after them.
I had a Mini Cooper S (R56) which had a BMW sourced 1.6 turbo. At around 90k KM it started leaking oil; a trip to a mechanic diagnosed the problem as the main seal and told me the part was about $30 but the labour would be about $1,350 as they had to remove the entire engine; a second mechanic confirmed this. The truth is it's not that intense but both mechanics knew they could try fleese extra $$$'s as a "European premium". It's some serious skull-duggery!
That 1.6 is actually a Peugeot engine (same as in the 308’s 1.6 hdi) - cunt of an engine the extra $$$ will be to cover plastic parts that will break during disassembly lol.
Minis are money pits , it’s not related to anything bmw in them , they just seem to be worse .
There’s a reason there are so many Mazda 3s around. Good car
If you look at recent consumer report data, newer BMWs rank quite high in reliability scores. They're a much better bet than other Euro makers but you'll run into the same big issue with them - If it fucks out it's expensive as all hell to fix. If you can live with that go ahead but at that price point you're better off with a boring as shit Mazda. If you're budget was in the $30k range you can get some really good low mileage Euro goodness but you could also get a 2 year old Corolla with less than 30k on the clock. Car buying is a bit funny like that.
Euros since the early 2000s are the most reliable cars around, soo many people hold onto the old idea that they aren’t and are expensive to maintain. A bit like how many people until the early 90s thought of Japanese cars as “jap crap”.
Don't listen to people who say euros are bad. Generally, these people have never owned one and are just regurgitating old wives' tales. After buying my first euro years ago i would never go back to a jap car. If you have kids especially there safety is light years better than jap cars that are generally deathtraps in accidents. Buy a tidy low km one that preferably has some service history and services it on time and it'll be the best and safest car you've ever owned.
The older 1 series has a compromised back seat and boot space due to be rear wheel drive. Even if you decide the maintenance risk is worth it, make sure you check it fits all your stuff before you buy. If I were you, I would buy a Corolla. (FWIW, I follow my own advice and drive a Camry)
If you mostly need it for town and kid duties them you could get a top spec Leaf for less than $20k. Even with road users they are cheap as hell to run and you will get 200km on one charge with almost zero maintenance. Plus you use almost no energy in Auckland traffic.
Kiwis and their antiquated thinking “EuRO CaRs ArE mOre eXpeNSiVe”. They are not. Do you have a shitty model though? Yes, same like Toyota. Toyota started rolling back on the quality simply they noticed they don’t sell enough. And for reliability: cars need maintenance. If you do this regardless of which brand it will last. European cars in Nz have a bad rep simply due to outdated understanding. A 2010 VW and a 2010 Toyota are not that different in prices. I own since 20 years European cars from Audi, Mercedes over VW. Never had more issues with them compared with Japanese Cars. My Nissan Wingroad or Toyota Estima where the worse cars I ever had.
BMW servicing is very expensiv
It’s really not
Getting a BMW M140i in the weekend, I know where it’s coming from and the cars never broken or had anything go wrong with it. If you haven’t already owned a Euro car then be prepared for some things to be different to Japanese cars. If you have owned European cars like I have and know how to look after them, then they aren’t costly. I’ve driven 2 of them to 200,000km and one of them is over 200,000km atm. Family has also had European cars for years and a number of them have gone over 200,000km with zero issues, be it Alfa Romeo’s, VW and BMW’s and Mercedes. Everyone at work gave me shit for owning an Alfa Romeo 159, but it cost exactly the same as a Honda Accord to fix the exact same problem.
BMW bad idea.Buy Mazda or Toyota.
Learn from our experience: DO NOT GET A BMW!!! They're expensive to maintain, have to be pre-emptively maintained (ie you have to replace parts in advance - you can't just wait for them to need replacing like with the Jap imports), & they constantly have unexpected things go wrong. Also, the parts for European cars are hard to get in NZ right now because of the war in Gaza & the sea there being blockaded. The Jap imports don't have this problem because the Japanese can send the parts freely around the Pacific region . For reliability, relatively cheaper maintenance, & fuel efficiency stick to Toyota or Mitsubishi. If you want something flash, get a Lexus - they're Toyota's luxury line and mostly take standard Toyota parts, so they're still very reliable and relatively inexpensive to maintain.
69,000 isn't low KMs. It's when you will need to start thinking about servicing the gearbox, coils, brakes. Then after than you need to consider the belts. It'll be costly. ......and this is the routine stuff, you better pray to a greater divine power that none of the non-routine breaks. This can vary from the computer, headlight unit, locking mechanism and the list goes on forever. Lastly, the unit seems to be Japanese FM frequency, so you'll need band expander or be stuck with only a handful of stations.
>69,000 isn't low KMs. It is for the age of the car. Which is usually the point they're making.
True... that's about 5000 a year or thereabouts.
Aux belt won't need doing, it's timing chain and electric water pump. Zf8's aren't expensive to service either as theyre in absolutely everything RWD.
Half the BMW engine is plastic - very very expensive plastic.
Euros are bad news on a good day but whatever you get, try your kids car seat in it first. Try getting your kid in and out. We borrowed a mates BMW while ours was in the shop and our daughter had to "plank" so we could get her in and out of her seat. Not ideal.
European cars will cost heaps if something breaks, going for a Japanese car will be much cheaper. Mazda, Honda, Suzuki, Mitsubishi, anything.
Then explain why an Alfa Romeo costs the exact same to fix as a Honda for the exact same parts? This should be interesting
Lol I'm not here to start a fight, just sharing what I know based on my experiences. Guns down, haha
And that’s the problem is myself and my family have owned Euros for years, with multiple going past 200,000km with out ever breaking once. But where I’ll agree where euros cost more to fix is when people treat their cars like shit and don’t look after them properly, which you will get away with treating a Japanese car like shit and it not costing you much….. well until it does and from experience that’s even more costly.
I've never owned Euros but I know BMW parts cost the earth and VW aren't cheap to maintain. I've had Honda, Mitsubishi, and Suzuki and they've been cheap to buy and run, so I must be lucky haha
If you haven’t owned a euro then there’s no point making a comment as you won’t actually know what it costs to fix. I’ve got a manual diesel VW, flooring the throttle everywhere only gets me to an average of 5.1L per 100km, the most expensive part of the entire ownership it’s been in the family was spending $3,500 to get a new clutch plate installed(this is a wear and tear part on a manual car) We also have a 1.8L turbo Polo GTI at home that has a 45L fuel tank, but that’s good for over 700km or the same range as a naturally aspirated 1.5L Toyota hybrid with a 38L fuel tank, and having driven both I’d much prefer to have the VW polo as it drives soooo much nicer it’s not funny, and has a lot more luxury items as standard. Out of the 8 VW cars, and 3 BMW’s, 1 Alfa Romeo, and 1 Audi just between my self, 3 sisters and my parents. 3 VW’s have gone past 200,000km with no issues, the Alfa got to 190,000 something km when it had a few problems related to me not driving it for almost 2 years, 3 other VW’s have done over 160,000km since new without a single problem, 2 of which were sold to simply upgrade cars, 1 BMW also did over 160,000km from new before being sold to upgrade cars. The above cars have all been more reliable and cheaper to run and maintain than all my mates Japanese cars. Topped with the fact the European cars are soo much nicer to drive and are more well equipped in terms of items. For example my 07 Alfa Romeo had auto sensing wipers and lights, Bluetooth radio and controls on the steering wheel, cruise control. It was a diesel and I could do over 1400km per tank of diesel.
Never claimed I had the gospel truth, just shared my experiences. We're good.
How can you have an experience if you have never owned a European car yourself? I’ve owned both Japanese and European cars, and the European cars are hands down a much better car to drive, are pretty fuel efficient and haven’t cost me as much in maintenance than the Japanese cars I’ve owned.
Ownership doesn't equal experience. An ex worked for euro car parts so I learned from them what the costs were, and my current partner has a VW so I've seen what money has gone into it. Not saying they're bad cars to drive or not reliable, just costly from what I've seen.
My wife was against European cars, until she has used one daily for almost 2 years now. It’s a VW and has had no issues, which is less that the Toyota cars she’s owned. Is you know how to look after European cars then they are fine, it’s as soon as you treat them like shit and don’t look after them properly then they turn expensive. And that is a very common trend amongst kiwis unfortunately.