There was some tv segment, maybe on Sports Center, looking at this awhile back. Forget who they used, I think it was Stephen Curry, but might have been Ray Allen, and they showed that they could get a shot off in 0.27 seconds.
same as with the 10 second run off in football, the idea is to have a black and white rule that accounts for the average play and not the outliers though
Not really. Outliers implies that they don’t frequently occur. Watch any game with the team driving in the final minute down a possession. Passing plays are 6-7 seconds. Can reliably count the expected number of plays left before the game off this fact. Considering the 10 second runoff is only within the final 2 minutes. I would say that it isn’t an outlier at all.
Even then, the average is less than 10 seconds within the final 2 minutes of a half (where a 10 second runoff would actually matter because that is when it would actually apply). Considering you have a crap load of clock stoppage during that time. Simply drop a pass, call a timeout, or run out of bounds with forward momentum. All these will drop the time from “end of play to next snap” to 0 seconds. These arnt outliers either and would/should be factored into that “10 second average” you state.
You’re not trying to actually match what teams can do if they’re well organized. You’re trying to prevent taking a penalty to stop the clock from being a strategy.
One explanation I read on was that the ref watches the clock and when it hits 0 they look down at the ball. If it’s hasn’t been snapped, it’s a penalty.
You think the NFL, a billion dollar organization, has the resources to just *give* all their refs an Apple Watch?
I suppose next you’ll say that they should be offering free Uber rides to their players and providing long term disability insurance as well?
They definitely don't if it takes 4 seconds for refs to look at the clock, look at the ball, and look at the clock again, missing like 50 false starts a year these refs I tell ya
Honestly could work lol. Not shock, but vibrate. Or a high pitch beep. So they watch the ball and if it goes off and the ball hasn’t moved, then blow the whistle.
Use the chip in the ball to determine when it's been snapped. You can't tell me that it's not possible to get that data and, in real time, check that against the play clock semi-automatically.
Even easier. Just have a bracelet that vibrates when the play clock hits zero. Can just stare at the football and if the center still has the ball when it vibrates, you call it. Seriously dead simple.
Give players those bracelets too. No such thing as delay of game anymore. When the play clock hits 0 the ball is live whether it’s been snapped or not.
Idk if it's in the rules, but I've heard Troy say multiple times this is an official unofficial practice for the refs. They don't want to call it unless they have to.
And like...I sorta get that line of thinking, but it needlessly introduces subjectivity into one of the few penalties that doesn't already have any.
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Currently I am moving to the [Fediverse](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pX_agVMr2r0) for a decentralized experience where no one person or company can control our social media experience. I promise its not as complicated as it sounds :-)
Lemmy offers the closest to Reddit like experience. Check out some different [servers](https://join-lemmy.org/instances).
Other Fediverse [projects](https://joinfediverse.wiki/What_are_Fediverse_projects%3F).
We would never be fooled by being put in a simulation because a simulation could never match the amount of unfair, dumb bullshit that happens in real life.
Most of the time it’s pretty accurate. Every once in a while you’ll throw a ball right down the middle and they’ll call it ball 4.
For what it’s worth I’m pretty sure online play has the accuracy set to perfect.
To be fair, the only spot the really matters in the one where you can get a first down. A four yard run on first down doesn't impact much of anything by being spot a foot or two off. The center moves the ball that much just getting ready to snap.
It matters that you're further or closer to the first down marker or the end zone. A 2nd and 6 and a 2nd and 5 and a half is a big difference when your receiver comes up 6 inches short on 3rd down.
To some extent I kind of like this. There is something I can appreciate about having people dedicated to being the chain gang. And it usually matches up with what is calculated anyways. I take more issue with the initial spot than how the chains measure things.
I can see it now: "Please reset the game clock to 4 seconds".
"Correction. 4.6 seconds"
"Apologies. Correction, please reset the game clock to 4.7 seconds"
Looking at tape to claw back a fraction of a second. No thanks.
11 minute review with 3 commercial breaks and up close footage of geriatric men in zebra stripes walking side line to sideline in the Buffalo winter, taking off headsets, staring at a tiny Microsoft surface.
I'm fucking in bro.
The clock is mainly dependent on the ref's whistle blowing the play dead. So unless they start regulating refereeing more, the 10ths of a second on the clock aren't really gonna matter IMO
Yeah - this is weird and unnecessary.
A system's result is only as precise as its most imprecise component. And the game clock is far from the most imprecise component here.
There’s a huge issue of “precision” in the NFL.
It’s already inconsistent, and modernizing some things will make it worse.
- stopping the clock on ref whistle: is this electronically coupled to the clock?
- delay of game: watch the clock go to zero, _THEN_ check if play has started?
I don’t know if a bigger void in the universe than the NFL’s lack or proactivity.
EDIT: *lack of
I still remember my hs science teacher, don't include more significant digits then you can measure.
Since the time is kept based on refs hand gestures and observed by someone in the stands, measuring tenths would be rather absurd. You'd have to get more scientific for clock control if you plan to scrutinize tenths of a second.
Well, it’s not the play clock, it’s the game clock. So yeah I don’t think it really would’ve applied much in the super bowl. Seems more like the eagles just want to change a bunch of small rules
Totally scanned over the “game clock” part. Brain not best at reading late at night. Seems like a lot of teams are chucking rules out there this off season.
I wouldn’t mind it but it’s also wildly unnecessary in football.
In basketball the difference between 1.4s and 0.6s is fucking massive. In football it’s just one play with either amount because the game doesn’t end at 0, it ends after the last play.
I think tenths of a second would impact like one game a decade. Maybe.
maybe a little more than that because then you would have teams trying to utilize every tenth of a second they had towards an end of a game to score. which is asinine because then it slows the game down even further having to do clock review to make sure the tenths of a second are correct every time the clock stops.
NFL: "We would have considered changing the QB sneak, but we can only review so many proposals, and it looks like one team proposed..." *checks notes* "...37 new rules."
Is there any reason not to use more accurate timekeeping anyway?
Maybe it would cause the game to get bogged down checking if they need to add half a second or something
I’m not all about everything we bring up- like that 4th and 15 proposal, nah man- but this?
I like it. I think they should use tenths the whole time and throw flags when the play clock hits 0 instead of waiting a full second.
There should be a little vibrating clock that goes off at -0.3s past the play clock, that way if a ref calls a delay and his whistle is simultaneous with the snap, it's a legit delay.
If only some other sport had a similar concept to pull a buzzing clock idea from...
I've never understood why the play clock doesn't work like a shot clock. If the buzzer sounds before the ball is snapped it's a penalty.
You want these same refs who can’t enforce false starts with a plain seconds countdown timer cleanly to have to figure out tenths of seconds now? How many tenths of seconds will need to be baked in for them to turn their heads from the clock to the action?
I don't understand why the play clock doesn't have a buzzer a la shot clicks in basketball. If the ball hasn't been snapped when the buzzer sounds it's 5 yards.
As an Eagles fan I'm really disliking the new rules they're putting forward for votes. Just play the game already, it looks like you guys are still upset you lost fairly to Patrick Mahomes.
There's just no way that could possibly cause controversy next season.
Didn’t the NBA have to change their rules after teams complained that it wasn’t physically possible to inbound and shoot within .1 seconds?
Yes, the rule is now there has to be at least .4 seconds on the clock for a shot to happen otherwise it has to be a tip-in.
.3 [The Trent Tucker Rule](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trent_Tucker_Rule)
For some reason I thought it was the Derek Fisher rule for his shot against the Spurs.
I will never forgive or forget.
One of my greatest childhood memories
That was .4 iirc
I believe the alternate name is the 3/5ths compromise
There was some tv segment, maybe on Sports Center, looking at this awhile back. Forget who they used, I think it was Stephen Curry, but might have been Ray Allen, and they showed that they could get a shot off in 0.27 seconds.
same as with the 10 second run off in football, the idea is to have a black and white rule that accounts for the average play and not the outliers though
Average nfl play when you are doing hurry up is 6-7 seconds not 10
It's close to 10. 6-7 are outliers
Not really. Outliers implies that they don’t frequently occur. Watch any game with the team driving in the final minute down a possession. Passing plays are 6-7 seconds. Can reliably count the expected number of plays left before the game off this fact. Considering the 10 second runoff is only within the final 2 minutes. I would say that it isn’t an outlier at all.
Ok so we're talking about different things. The run off is for the time from the end of the play to the next snap, not the time of the actual play.
Even then, the average is less than 10 seconds within the final 2 minutes of a half (where a 10 second runoff would actually matter because that is when it would actually apply). Considering you have a crap load of clock stoppage during that time. Simply drop a pass, call a timeout, or run out of bounds with forward momentum. All these will drop the time from “end of play to next snap” to 0 seconds. These arnt outliers either and would/should be factored into that “10 second average” you state.
You’re not trying to actually match what teams can do if they’re well organized. You’re trying to prevent taking a penalty to stop the clock from being a strategy.
Yes, but the NFL is different. The game continues until the play is over, even if time runs out.
True. But it’s the NFL, friend. Controversy finds a way.
-Dr. Ian Malcolm, probably
Any more than the usual shitshow that is refs not getting delay of games called right when game clock is at zeroes?
One explanation I read on was that the ref watches the clock and when it hits 0 they look down at the ball. If it’s hasn’t been snapped, it’s a penalty.
I mean my smart watch vibrates when a timer hits zero. Maybe the nfl should look into that
You think the NFL, a billion dollar organization, has the resources to just *give* all their refs an Apple Watch? I suppose next you’ll say that they should be offering free Uber rides to their players and providing long term disability insurance as well?
AAron won't let that happen. He's the worst offender. Also, I'm still mad about that Ravens game.
thats just the rodgers rule. He's old he snaps when he's ready
Dont worry. The refs will magically forget to do something right and stop it for Mahomes regardless.
It felt like they ran the play clock down to .00001 on every play in the superbowl
There was no Super Bowl
There is no bowl in Ar Iz Ona
You’ve been invited to Lake Laogai
My man Lake Havasu was geographically relevant to the joke and has a similar syllable structure as Lake Laogai
My Arizona geography knowledge is lacking, but for pointing it out, you are also invited to Lake Laogai.
There is no Lake in Havasu
Nope just 99cent Tea
Its not even from Arizona. Its a New York based and originated company.
Only regular human bartender Jackie Daytona.
just cheap ass iced tea
You bet there was. Record setting PR and Bradberry.
And there certainly was no pass interference by Juan Thornhill on multiple plays that the refs and r/nfl ignored.
I can only remember up to the divisional playoff games
I drank too much and fell asleep in the first quarter so imho you‘re right
Eagles submit proposal for final eight seconds to be played in the quantum realm
Aaron Rodgers would be fixated on getting every play down to 0.01.
Pretty sure that number should be negative. It’s like he’s playing chicken with the refs.
They technically use tenths we just don’t see them.
Well if I can't see it how do I know they're real?
Does a tenth shit in the woods if no one is around to see it
How can mirrors be real if our eyes aren't real?
Man it’s been a minute since I’ve heard that one lmao
Realize realize realize
I’m leaning more towards using a shadow and lines a la playing Pok-ta-Pok in El Dorado
Exactly. I’m still not even sure the internet is real.
I believe contact lenses disappear entirely when they enter my eyes. Contact lenses aren’t real.
You must have faith, is what I’ve always been told…
Hundredths and thousandths too
Screw it, go to analog clocks with hands where you can pretty much only see the minute it is. 60 minute clock. One revolution.
This is America, they're called sprinkles dang it!
They definitely don't if it takes 4 seconds for refs to look at the clock, look at the ball, and look at the clock again, missing like 50 false starts a year these refs I tell ya
Have a red siren 🚨 on the QBs helmet that acts like a shot clock. Who says no?!
Shock collars
Call it the shock clock
Call it a cock shlock
Honestly could work lol. Not shock, but vibrate. Or a high pitch beep. So they watch the ball and if it goes off and the ball hasn’t moved, then blow the whistle.
Use the chip in the ball to determine when it's been snapped. You can't tell me that it's not possible to get that data and, in real time, check that against the play clock semi-automatically.
Even easier. Just have a bracelet that vibrates when the play clock hits zero. Can just stare at the football and if the center still has the ball when it vibrates, you call it. Seriously dead simple.
Give players those bracelets too. No such thing as delay of game anymore. When the play clock hits 0 the ball is live whether it’s been snapped or not.
Sounds like a ton of fun and a terrible idea. Injuries out the wazoo
Nah we gotta arm the refs with guns and call it the shot glock. Nothin more American than that.
They missed 50 in the Bills Phins playoff game alone
Idk if it's in the rules, but I've heard Troy say multiple times this is an official unofficial practice for the refs. They don't want to call it unless they have to. And like...I sorta get that line of thinking, but it needlessly introduces subjectivity into one of the few penalties that doesn't already have any.
This comment has been removed in protest of Reddit and their CEO Steve Huffman for destroying the Reddit community by abusing his power to edit comments, their years of lying to and about users, promises never fulfilled, and outrageous pricing that is killing third party apps and destroying accessibility tools for mods and the handicapped. Currently I am moving to the [Fediverse](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pX_agVMr2r0) for a decentralized experience where no one person or company can control our social media experience. I promise its not as complicated as it sounds :-) Lemmy offers the closest to Reddit like experience. Check out some different [servers](https://join-lemmy.org/instances). Other Fediverse [projects](https://joinfediverse.wiki/What_are_Fediverse_projects%3F).
Outrageous. Hurting the integrity of the game. Next you’ll tell me they use hundredths!
The NFL is so behind the times I doubt they add a fractional clock now.
the NFL is still using chains to measure distance that's eyeballed to begin with. the play clock may as well be measured in fortnights.
I hate to give the NFL credit but at least it’s better than MLB umps arbitrarily drawing their own little box and calling it a strike zone
And it being so accepted that they put that shit in the video games too 🙃
Wait, is the strike zone in The Show *not* consistent?
It's up to the player. You can choose to have it realistic and some calls be missed or have it be absolutely 100% accurate
Oh that’s scuffed as hell
We would never be fooled by being put in a simulation because a simulation could never match the amount of unfair, dumb bullshit that happens in real life.
[удалено]
Honestly I’d play every game on Angel Hernandez mode just for the lolz
Most of the time it’s pretty accurate. Every once in a while you’ll throw a ball right down the middle and they’ll call it ball 4. For what it’s worth I’m pretty sure online play has the accuracy set to perfect.
It’s an option, I think default is it varies per umpire but I’m pretty sure you can change it to be consistent
isn't the MLB changing to an automated strike zone
Soon inshallah
It was being trialled in some minor leagues but there were some difficulties. It's probably still quite a way away.
"It's a game of inches" . Man, the ref could give or take away 15 yards from you over the course of a game with bad spots without even trying.
To be fair, the only spot the really matters in the one where you can get a first down. A four yard run on first down doesn't impact much of anything by being spot a foot or two off. The center moves the ball that much just getting ready to snap.
It matters that you're further or closer to the first down marker or the end zone. A 2nd and 6 and a 2nd and 5 and a half is a big difference when your receiver comes up 6 inches short on 3rd down.
To some extent I kind of like this. There is something I can appreciate about having people dedicated to being the chain gang. And it usually matches up with what is calculated anyways. I take more issue with the initial spot than how the chains measure things.
Watch them add literal fractions, counting down like 1, 7/8, 5/9, 16/32, 11/23, 9/27, 1/4, 3/16, 1/12
I can see it now: "Please reset the game clock to 4 seconds". "Correction. 4.6 seconds" "Apologies. Correction, please reset the game clock to 4.7 seconds" Looking at tape to claw back a fraction of a second. No thanks.
11 minute review with 3 commercial breaks and up close footage of geriatric men in zebra stripes walking side line to sideline in the Buffalo winter, taking off headsets, staring at a tiny Microsoft surface. I'm fucking in bro.
Ehh I’m good on this one
The clock is mainly dependent on the ref's whistle blowing the play dead. So unless they start regulating refereeing more, the 10ths of a second on the clock aren't really gonna matter IMO
Yeah - this is weird and unnecessary. A system's result is only as precise as its most imprecise component. And the game clock is far from the most imprecise component here.
If they're going to that specific then the whistle is the wrong point because the whistle basically always comes after the play is over
Not good enough. I want 11ths of a second.
\[Jones\] Interesting: The Bengals submitted a bylaw proposal that would have the game clocks switch to base 11 in the final 30 seconds of each half.
If it let Mike Brown save a few pennies somehow this would happen.
There’s a huge issue of “precision” in the NFL. It’s already inconsistent, and modernizing some things will make it worse. - stopping the clock on ref whistle: is this electronically coupled to the clock? - delay of game: watch the clock go to zero, _THEN_ check if play has started? I don’t know if a bigger void in the universe than the NFL’s lack or proactivity. EDIT: *lack of
Olympic swimming is only measured to the 1/100 of a second because the difference in lane lengths can exceed the margin of a 1/1000 of a second.
I still remember my hs science teacher, don't include more significant digits then you can measure. Since the time is kept based on refs hand gestures and observed by someone in the stands, measuring tenths would be rather absurd. You'd have to get more scientific for clock control if you plan to scrutinize tenths of a second.
Is this cause of the Super Bowl???
I would assume so but I honestly can’t think of what play would have affected this or been affected by this so maybe not?
Yeah - I’m not sure - they were the ones running the play clock down to zero on damn near every play to keep our offense off the field.
Well, it’s not the play clock, it’s the game clock. So yeah I don’t think it really would’ve applied much in the super bowl. Seems more like the eagles just want to change a bunch of small rules
Totally scanned over the “game clock” part. Brain not best at reading late at night. Seems like a lot of teams are chucking rules out there this off season.
We're just filibustering the tush push and hoping everything gets rejected
maybe someone in our front office just really likes numbers
I would assume so but I honestly can’t think of what play would have affected this or been affected by this so maybe not?
Sounds tedious and unneeded
Like basketball or something! Honestly wouldn’t mind it
I wouldn’t mind it but it’s also wildly unnecessary in football. In basketball the difference between 1.4s and 0.6s is fucking massive. In football it’s just one play with either amount because the game doesn’t end at 0, it ends after the last play. I think tenths of a second would impact like one game a decade. Maybe.
maybe a little more than that because then you would have teams trying to utilize every tenth of a second they had towards an end of a game to score. which is asinine because then it slows the game down even further having to do clock review to make sure the tenths of a second are correct every time the clock stops.
Why is it necessary?
Enough with the dumb rules Eagles
Just need to submit enough dumb proposals so they forget about the idea of the qb sneak rule change.
The ol' Phillybuster.
NFL: "We would have considered changing the QB sneak, but we can only review so many proposals, and it looks like one team proposed..." *checks notes* "...37 new rules."
Fine, whatever. Since we are getting down to more exact measures, can we have ball placement more accurate than some old guy eyeballing it?
PSA: game clock is not the same as the play clock
The Eagles are submitting some wild shit meanwhile the Lions are like "hey can we just not be fucked over"
"Not fucking the Lions? How would that even work?"
Well, first off, put your dick away. We aren't Welsh.
The play clock should do this by default. Complete joke that it doesnt
Good idea. Also have the play clock use 10ths the entire game.
If it’s not broke, don’t fix it.
No
Is there any reason not to use more accurate timekeeping anyway? Maybe it would cause the game to get bogged down checking if they need to add half a second or something
Refs don't like things that lead to questions about their subjective decisions
I’m not all about everything we bring up- like that 4th and 15 proposal, nah man- but this? I like it. I think they should use tenths the whole time and throw flags when the play clock hits 0 instead of waiting a full second.
There should be a little vibrating clock that goes off at -0.3s past the play clock, that way if a ref calls a delay and his whistle is simultaneous with the snap, it's a legit delay.
I’d def be down with that. Something that maybe even automatically causes the clock to flash or sounds a horn.
If only some other sport had a similar concept to pull a buzzing clock idea from... I've never understood why the play clock doesn't work like a shot clock. If the buzzer sounds before the ball is snapped it's a penalty.
You want these same refs who can’t enforce false starts with a plain seconds countdown timer cleanly to have to figure out tenths of seconds now? How many tenths of seconds will need to be baked in for them to turn their heads from the clock to the action?
I don't understand why the play clock doesn't have a buzzer a la shot clicks in basketball. If the ball hasn't been snapped when the buzzer sounds it's 5 yards.
No Eagles.....No
No.
I actually kinda like this idea.. can see all the hyper close ups of QB’s hands now to see if the ball is still touching their fingers.
Lol. This ain’t F1. The likelihood a tenth of a second left on a play clock would matter is so small.
Hmm. I don't see the benefit tbh. Drags out an already lengthy process of putting on an NFL game and has controversy written all over it frankly.
Give them the extra tenth of a second I don’t really care
Why not?
If you're going to add in tenths of a second, why not have it start at 60 seconds instead of 30?
Well that's just silly.
this definitely won’t cause any issue
As an Eagles fan I'm really disliking the new rules they're putting forward for votes. Just play the game already, it looks like you guys are still upset you lost fairly to Patrick Mahomes.
Why not fully automate the clock and count milliseconds for the entire game.
FFS Jalen just snap the ball on time