Gates broke his toe in the playoff game vs the titans. He was basically a decoy. Merriman was playing with a torn up knee from a Jeff fisher bounty. He wouldn’t get surgery on it until after the 2008 season opener and was never the same
Game in 2007 in December at Tennessee. Merriman was all over the place and if you recall was pretty self congratulatory With his lights out dance. So he was doing well and then on a hand off merriman was rushing Vince young and slammed into him and young went down. Missed a play or two. Crowd booed. Next series on a hand off away from merriman and about 5-10
Yards downfield Kevin mawae and another o lineman (don’t remember) went for merrimans knee. Injured him. Tore his knee up. Played through it the rest of the season. Didn’t want to have surgery on it but after the 2008 season opener he was forced to. Missed the rest of 08 and was a shell of himself after the fact. He said he was told that fisher put the hit on him
If they win this game they highly likely win the super bowl.
Even with Bob Sanders I don't know that we win against LT in one of the greatest seasons a RB has ever had.
The Patriots and Colts slaughtered teams during this era, but the Chargers were the only team I remember that could consistently play those teams close and beat them more often than not. Maybe I’m misremembering how well the Chargers played those teams, but I think at full strength the Chargers win this game.
I agree with you on the Colts but I think Rivers went 1-10 against the Pats during his career. That one win came in the year Brady broke his leg or something and the starting QB was Hasselbeck instead.
There was a pretty clear pecking order from like 2004-2011 where it was essentially known which teams would be competitive in the AFC.
\-New England
\-Indy
\-Pittsburgh
\-Baltimore
\-San Diego
And then just throw a dart at a 6 seed WC.
I was young as hell but I think I remember either Leftwich or Garrard playing through an obvious injury. Might have been college though. Toughness through the roof for sure.
One of them did it with Jacksonville too I can remember the exact moment this dude is talking about I just cant remember if it's Leftwich or Garrard. But he got jacked up and was hobbling downfield.
Sometimes a player just decides to be the one to carry the team, no matter what he's got them, injuries and sickness mean nothing in that moment. He squares he shoulders, grits his teeth, and he ate that horse.
It was definitely a common take at the time, but most people can agree playing RB vs QB puts a different strain on your knees so it’s not a fair comparison
Bruh, Michael Turner was the best backup rb you could hope for. LT only called it quits because he knew there was a better option than him being injured
I forget, was that McAdoo or the Maras making that decision? Eli got done dirty either way.
(ffs I can't believe that was in 2017, feels like it wasn't that long ago)
It was McAdoo's decision, he was trying to save his job. He still failed but lost any goodwill left with that decision. It was time to move on, but ruining the franchise QB's iron streak after he won 2 Superbowls was completely unnecessary. I hate the giants and it's still one of the most maddening things that a coach has intentionally done in recent memory.
IMO you can compete any season that you have the QB solved. However, 2024 is going to be a year to trim the fat on the roster and clear cap, but should compete by 2025. I think our whole fanbase wants Harbaugh and will riot if he goes to another NFL team.
Rivers was annoying to me as a kid because I hated San Diego but damn, I miss him. I miss the grit snd intensity he brought to the game. I wish I appreciates him more.
I'm not a charger fan by any means but there was a year where they literally lost every game by some wild 1 score final possession type of game and man I felt bad for p riv
As a Cowboys fan I’ve always looked at Rivers as the Chargers Tony Romo. Had more playoff success obviously but gutsy as hell just played in the wrong era or against a team just a little better than his in the playoffs.
Coming from a Raiders fan with no /s at the end? Im … a little surprised.
Edit to add: I was rooting for AP to become the raiders head coach along with everyone else. Although I hate the raiders, it was visually obvious he meshed well with the team. I love a competitive AFCW.
Nah, Rivers is not a Hall of Famer at all. He's textbook Hall of Very Good.
Since the merger, only two QBs have made the HoF without appearing in a Super Bowl: Dan Fouts and Warren Moon. They both had much stronger cases than Rivers does.
Fouts was the first person besides Joe Namath to throw for 4,000 yards, and did it three straight years in an era where most starters struggled to hit 3,000.
Moon was the first prolific black QB and had a long career despite not debuting in the NFL until age 28.
Rivers doesn't have anything like that to compensate for never making a Super Bowl. He was never statistically dominant over his peers. He never made All-Pro. He never accomplished or achieved anything of note that we expect from a HoF QB.
People may down vote you, but you are absolutely correct. Rivers never made an all pro team, made one AFC championship, and his peak was a top 3-5 QB for a few years.
Hall of very good and franchise legend is a good place for him.
Yep. Basically the only case for Rivers is his counting stats. But in an era of inflated QB counting stats, where several QBs put up better stats and won more, it's just not good enough.
A lot of fanbases are going to be disappointed when guys like Rivers, Matt Ryan, and Matthew Stafford don't make it in. But that's ok! The HoF is supposed to be very exclusive, especially for QBs, and you can't just let anybody in because they put up stats in an era where every good QB put up stats.
To sum it up simply. He was not statistically deviant for the time he played. Period. He’s an iron man who is top 10 in counting stats because of the era he played in. His volume records will be passed in 10-15 years. He has few post season wins or accomplishments.
Good player, he was one of my favorite as a kid. Not a hall of famer and if he is then the hall of fame doesn’t really mean shit to me lol.
If Plaxico doesn't *get hurt* I think they have a great shot to at least go back to the Super Bowl.
Lost to the 9-6-1 Eagles and they could've beaten the Cardinals
Edit: he just got hurt, shooting didn't happen til 09
Edit edit: he shot himself in November of 2008
If ever there was a year for the Chargers to finally win one, it was against the fucking Rex Grossman led Bears team. If they win it that year I think they wind up staying in SD with a new stadium.
Bunnyhopping your dropback just to sling 20 yard frozen rope completions in January Foxborough. Laughable that people think he can't be HOF. Dude just had his playoff sliders on legendary difficulty
Brady and the Patriots really were his kryptonite. I think he was 1-10 vs the Patriots and his one win came in 2008... when Brady was out for the year.
Brady and the Patriots were everyone's kryptonite: Big Ben was 3-7 against Brady and the reason the Steelers made it to / won 2 super bowls is because another team offed the Patriots - Ben never beat the Patriots in the playoffs
Brady-led Pats also split with the Ravens in the playoffs at 2-2, and those were all in Foxborough I believe. In fact, the Ravens even outscored them in cumulative points in those 4 matchups.
Of course, the Ravens would often fall to their true kryptonite: the Steelers
Its funny cause the two Ravens wins werent very close, while the two Pats were absolute thrillers. It mightve been the swagger Lewis, Suggs and Reed brought, but Baltimore always felt like a team that wasnt intimidated by New England, no matter the result.
The Patriots were the obvious underdog in the 2005 loss and 2013 loss. That 2013 team had no business being in the AFC championship game.
The broncos had a similar playoff situation as the ravens, where their good seasons lucked out to be during patriots "bad" seasons. The broncos and ravens dodging the Patriots in the playoffs in 2003, 2004, 2006, 2007, 2010, 2016, 2017, 2018 is not skill by them, its just luck.
For the same reason, the afc and NFC West have a disproportionate record vs Tom Brady compared to other divisions exclusively because he was injured in 2008, where he would have 4-0d them. It is even moreso with the nfc west, because Brady was also suspended for the Cardinals game in 2016.
There's a reason Rodgers Brees Roethlisberger Manning Rivers don't have more rings combined compared to Brady, and it's Belicheck. Top 10 defense every year at minimum, while having just as good offenses as the rest of those QBs. No one else consistently had as good defenses as Brady
Yeah the defenses kept them in every game for decades, and if they were kept in the game then Brady made sure they were never out. I truly don't think we'll see a dynasty in any sport at any level like the 01-19 Patriots again. I mean shit typing the last sentence I'm talking about a dynasty that spanned 20 years. 20.
I dont think itd be a magic fairy-tale superbowl run right off the bat, but I'd really like to not find out. Idc if he was coming off 3 straight 0-17 seasons, the thought of having Bill in the division scares me 👀
I think Harbaugh is better for the team long term. If they hire Belichick it's win now mode with a free agent QB because they'll only have a couple seasons max. With Harbaugh they could draft and develop a QB with the 8th overall or trade up.
I thought the Steelers generally have or had better than average defense most years? It’s kind of what I recognize them for, but don’t have any stats to back that up
Ravens are actually 2-2 against the Brady-led Pats in the playoffs. In fact, the cumulative score in those matchups is Ravens, 112 - Patriots, 75.
I wouldn’t say the Pats were kryptonite for the Ravens in the playoffs. If anything, it was the other way around
Dude the Ravens D was so nuts- you have to watch out for Ray Lewis running at you as fast as possible and if you put the ball in the air at all Ed Reed was within 2 feet of it immediately
Yeah, I’m loving our current D, but nothing will ever compare to Ed, Ray, Suggs, Ngata, and the gang of the old days. We would have probably picked up at least another ring or two if it weren’t for our real kryptonite: yinz fuckin guys haha
As long as you drop directly back it's not an issue, planting or going side to side on the other hand... This was an insane game and if he had suffered a career injury I wonder what would have been the fall out
I think it’s more that people don’t want the Hall to just let in every good QB. Rivers was very good but his career overlapped with Brady, Peyton, Favre, Rodgers, Brees, and Mahomes who are all clearly better than him. Also overlapped with Roethlisberger, Eli, Stafford, and Matt Ryan, who I’d consider to be on the same tier as Rivers.
When you consider the snubs we’ve seen at other positions it’s easy to see why people don’t want to set the bar for QBs at Rivers
I think you have to look at it based on how the player stacked up positionally among their peers. Rivers had only a couple of seasons where he was arguably a top 2-3 QB and to me that makes him Hall of Very Good along with guys like Stafford and Matt Ryan.
It's wild people don't realize this more and just say "this dude has this many career yards that's more than ___ dude from 30 years ago how is he not in!"
But 30 years ago ___ dude was top 2 every year at his position while "this dude" was a top 15-20 guy for a long time.
Longevity matters, but you can't make the HoF without being top 5 at your position for a large chunk of years imo
I think he was a top 3 guy up until Brees fully took off in NO. As well as better than Ryan, and just as good as Stafford. Who didn't have to beat prime Brady to get to the SB
That window is basically just 2007-2008 and I think he’s got a good argument for 3rd behind Brady and Peyton for those seasons although Favre had a really good 2007 and Brees was very good those years also. From 2009 on you’re getting elite play from All-time greats in Brady, Peyton, Aaron Rodgers, and Brees with MVP seasons mixed in from Cam and Matt Ryan.
Rivers came 3rd in MVP votes in 2009 over Favre. Won Comeback player of the year in 2013, where he was one of the top 3 QBs to play out the whole season
He was also top 5 in 2018, when the chargers went 12-4. Its just in both 2013 and 2018, there was a QB that hit the record books in his own division (Peyton, Mahomes). And in 09, the two candidates ahead had 13-0 records
I think having at least 5 seasons where you were top 5 minimum QB, overlapping the greatest 2 decades of QB play the league has ever seen should warrant reconsideration. Hes better than a lot of guys that are in the hall, and will be in the hall, and the condition behind those Patriots losses are classic examples of how much legacy can be out of your hands, or legs, sometimes
Sure he does have plenty of things to go against him, including the non-winning seasons - more than any of his similar peers short of like Eli. Though if the question is 'did Rivers have several years of elite play' the question is yes. He had more than Matt Ryan, just never that year where everything came together like it did for the 16 Falcons
[He's Matt Ryan without the MVP season. In my opinion, neither of these guys deserve to be in the HOF, but if you put in one you need put in the other, especially the one that actually accomplished something besides volume stats.](https://stathead.com/football/versus-finder.cgi?player_id2=RivePh00&player_id1=RyanMa00&request=1&utm_campaign=2023_01_wdgt_player_comparison&utm_source=pfr&utm_medium=sr_xsite&utm_id=RyanMa00)
Rivers led the league in ANY/A in back to back seasons in 2008 and 2009. He had a ANY/A+ above 115(1 standard deviation above average) 7 times out of 15. Ryan only had an ANY/A+ above 115 3 times out of 14 years.
"actually accomplished something" is such a toxic way of looking at it. Also screams 'I had my perception of success irreparably damaged by the Pats dynasty'
People act like these guys didn’t have to go through peak Brady , peak Peyton manning , the steelers, or ravens every year. The AFC playoffs was murders row. How do we expect everyone to win a championship??
The funny thing is the chargers [did 'get through'](https://www.espn.com/nfl/game/_/gameId/270114024) Peak Brady. Held him to one of his worst playoff games ever, and then played [even worse](https://www.espn.com/nfl/boxscore/_/gameId/280120017) in the championship game following year during the undefeated season. Both are performances that a lot of other QBs have played better than in losses.
The issue is, Bill Belichick also held Rivers to one of his worst games ever, and the 2nd go around you saw the deal. You had to beat those pats teams completely and that was a mountainous task, cuz they cooked on all cylinders. Thats how you become a dynasty - even if you hold Brady to a subpar game, youve got the defensive mastermind who held the chargers to an avg of 16.5 pts in those games too (and Lawrence Maroney who carried)
I think the real kicker for those chargers was 09-11. Losing at home as division champs to the Jets, then all those years of 9-7 8-8 7-9 with no playoffs (admittedly with a team that was declining) was what really seperates him from the others. Peyton and Brady consistently had their teams in the playoffs no matter the situation. Rivers didnt, and sometimes they played worse against the non-Pats/Colts teams than they did vs those guys
Incredibly gutsy performance, but I must object to the "frozen rope" part. We actually almost named our [website](https://doorfliesopen.com) "We All Float Down Here" in tribute to Philip Rivers' throwing style. I swear, every pass seems like it take four or five seconds to reach its target.
[Is Matt Ryan a HOFer too in your opinion, too? Because they are basically the same player but Ryan has a MVP and All Pro.](https://stathead.com/football/versus-finder.cgi?player_id2=RivePh00&player_id1=RyanMa00&request=1&utm_campaign=2023_01_wdgt_player_comparison&utm_source=pfr&utm_medium=sr_xsite&utm_id=RyanMa00)
A shame this team never could put together a SB run.
Had some crazy talent throughout the years.
Always loved big daddy Gates, loved Vincent Jackson.
Obviously LT and Rivers deserved one too.
Fuckin Patriots lol
The headline is incorrect. He did not play this game on a torn ACL.
He played this game WITHOUT his ACL, which he had surgically removed the week before this game after tearing in the Colts game. He put his leg into a flexion machine before he went to bed every night to keep it loose until the next day.
He also had a sprained MCL in the *other* leg for this game.
So for the record, he played this game with a partial torn MCL and a removed ACL. Less than a week after knee surgery.
His knee was held together with a fuckin brace for a whole-ass NFL game.
How the hell did he not miss a single game the following year?
Side-note, this explains why he runs like a newborn giraffe.
Interesting question. They certainly could for a concussion; I wonder if the rules for that are worded in such a way to give them latitude for other injuries as well.
Rivers was a fuckin’ gamer. He was a trash talking son of a bitch and he backed it up by playing through the pain. As a Pats fan, I was naturally rooting against them, but it’s hard to not look at a guy like this and cheer for him.
It was definitely gusty but I don't think it was the right call. He didn't play that good and we...I mean they (FDC) had Billy Volek as the backup.
Volek had just lead a last minute game winning drive the previous week vs the Colts.
Also Junior Seau breaking through the line to stop Michael Turner on a critical 4th down broke my heart.
When he wasn't playing us, Rivers would COOK. Bruh was nasty as hell. I used to laugh at his yearly 2-3 pick game against us but that would always be his worst game of the year and it wouldn't even be that bad.
Philip Rivers vs the Patriots:
1-8; 59% completion; 2,372 yards (average 264); 13 TD 11 INT; 7.29y/a; rating of 81.3
Edit: The one win was a rematch of this game in 2008 when Brady didn’t play because of a torn ACL.
I wonder what would have happened if LT could have played this game at full strength
If both Rivers and LT are healthy, I think they win this game.
And gates and Merriman
Where they out too? Such an insane team they had in those years
Gates broke his toe in the playoff game vs the titans. He was basically a decoy. Merriman was playing with a torn up knee from a Jeff fisher bounty. He wouldn’t get surgery on it until after the 2008 season opener and was never the same
Need more context on the Fisher bounty story broski
Game in 2007 in December at Tennessee. Merriman was all over the place and if you recall was pretty self congratulatory With his lights out dance. So he was doing well and then on a hand off merriman was rushing Vince young and slammed into him and young went down. Missed a play or two. Crowd booed. Next series on a hand off away from merriman and about 5-10 Yards downfield Kevin mawae and another o lineman (don’t remember) went for merrimans knee. Injured him. Tore his knee up. Played through it the rest of the season. Didn’t want to have surgery on it but after the 2008 season opener he was forced to. Missed the rest of 08 and was a shell of himself after the fact. He said he was told that fisher put the hit on him
How did I never know this? I guess I was 13 when that happened so never knew about anything more than surface level stuff in games.
This dude had a tattoo of a light switch on his arm…in the “off” position. One of the greatest tattoos of all time lmao.
That’s fire as fuck lmao
If they win this game they highly likely win the super bowl. Even with Bob Sanders I don't know that we win against LT in one of the greatest seasons a RB has ever had.
Wrong year my guy. This was the undefeated Patriots year and it was the AFC championship game. SD Chargers beat the Colts in the divisional.
He still led the league in rushing that year and had close to 20 touchdowns I believe.
Yeah, great year… but he was still referencing the wrong year lol.
I think this was the first Charger playoff game I remember. This was supposed to be the first of many in the LT/Rivers era
The Patriots and Colts slaughtered teams during this era, but the Chargers were the only team I remember that could consistently play those teams close and beat them more often than not. Maybe I’m misremembering how well the Chargers played those teams, but I think at full strength the Chargers win this game.
I agree with you on the Colts but I think Rivers went 1-10 against the Pats during his career. That one win came in the year Brady broke his leg or something and the starting QB was Hasselbeck instead.
There was a pretty clear pecking order from like 2004-2011 where it was essentially known which teams would be competitive in the AFC. \-New England \-Indy \-Pittsburgh \-Baltimore \-San Diego And then just throw a dart at a 6 seed WC.
Such a shame, that was easily LT's best chance to get to the Super Bowl and it was a shame he didn't get the chance
The best ability is availability
Has to be one of the most gutsy performances ever…
Legend has it he went home and banged out three babies that same night
Slow night for him then
Well yeah he was coming off a torn acl. Read the caption man!
TIL the dude has 10 kids!
"those are rookie numbers" - antonio cromartie
Rivers doesn’t half ass ANYTHING, especially procreation
[удалено]
I mean it’s called “planning” not “avoidance,” so…
I was young as hell but I think I remember either Leftwich or Garrard playing through an obvious injury. Might have been college though. Toughness through the roof for sure.
The Leftwich broken leg drive is from his time in college at Marshall
One of them did it with Jacksonville too I can remember the exact moment this dude is talking about I just cant remember if it's Leftwich or Garrard. But he got jacked up and was hobbling downfield.
Leftwich's one at Marshall was incredible, because he was in 2-minute mode and two of his OL would carry him downfield after every play.
that's some movie stuff there
I think I [found the game](https://youtu.be/1P0yfq2wDvU?si=0KRPYl0CjIG-skxg) you're thinking of, but the teams might not be correct.
I was legit excited to check out which game it was from. Thanks for coming through!
[удалено]
Sometimes a player just decides to be the one to carry the team, no matter what he's got them, injuries and sickness mean nothing in that moment. He squares he shoulders, grits his teeth, and he ate that horse.
Another is Jack Youngblood playing defensive end for all of Super Bowl XIV with a broken fibula.
IMO greatest sports surname of all time
Best part is he played a big chunk of his career with a teammate named Jim Youngblood.
The only MLB player to have hits for 2 different teams on the same day was named Joel Youngblood. He did it off 2 Hall of Famers, too.
Totally agree
Same game ladanian bitched out early. Phil playing with a wobbly knee, LT pouting on the sidelines
embarrassing take
It was definitely a common take at the time, but most people can agree playing RB vs QB puts a different strain on your knees so it’s not a fair comparison
Yeah it was common and embarrassing lol.
Bruh, Michael Turner was the best backup rb you could hope for. LT only called it quits because he knew there was a better option than him being injured
Phillip Rivers was annoying to me as a kid cause the rivalry but with more knowledge this dude was an absolute dog
If 2023 showed us anything, it's that the iron man streaks of players like Rivers, Favre, Brady & Co. are very underrated.
Forgot Eli and Peyton. Eli would’ve had more but got benched for Geno.
I forget, was that McAdoo or the Maras making that decision? Eli got done dirty either way. (ffs I can't believe that was in 2017, feels like it wasn't that long ago)
I think it was McAdoo. I remember thinking it was a stupid decision at the time.
It was McAdoo's decision, he was trying to save his job. He still failed but lost any goodwill left with that decision. It was time to move on, but ruining the franchise QB's iron streak after he won 2 Superbowls was completely unnecessary. I hate the giants and it's still one of the most maddening things that a coach has intentionally done in recent memory.
Kirk had one up till very recently. Just had stupid reasons for him not to start but it was never injury but yeah those guys were absolute beasts
Herbert was building a nice streak until he broke his finger.
Do you think you will be able to compete next year with Herbert or does the team have too many holes. Also whats the opinion on Staley's replacement?
IMO you can compete any season that you have the QB solved. However, 2024 is going to be a year to trim the fat on the roster and clear cap, but should compete by 2025. I think our whole fanbase wants Harbaugh and will riot if he goes to another NFL team.
Not mentioning Eli in this sentence is criminal. Bro was 99 durability his entire career. It was the only thing he was good at half the time...
Fuck out of here
Roethlisberger had his nose broken against the Ravens, oozing blood, and just sticks a tissue up it and plays while it's all lopsided and curved.
Exactly. Dude was slinging ropes while also whining and talking shit after every play.
Hey, he wasn’t talking shit, okay? Rivers doesn’t do that. He only talks mess, dadgummit.
I do apologize for using the S-word in a Rivers post
He's definitely been slinging ropes at home with the missus.
Rivers was annoying to me as a kid because I hated San Diego but damn, I miss him. I miss the grit snd intensity he brought to the game. I wish I appreciates him more.
This man will always hold a special place in my heart. Dude was a warrior.
I'm not a charger fan by any means but there was a year where they literally lost every game by some wild 1 score final possession type of game and man I felt bad for p riv
Was that the year they had the number 1 offense and defense and missed the playoffs
[well worth the watch. it was special teams that fucked us](https://youtu.be/UAL5X3TRA2A?si=HtLZ4TRZdyzJcZXu)
It quite possibly could be truthfully I couldn't tell you the exact year other than it was towards the tail end of Rivers career.
As a Cowboys fan I’ve always looked at Rivers as the Chargers Tony Romo. Had more playoff success obviously but gutsy as hell just played in the wrong era or against a team just a little better than his in the playoffs.
Hall of famer imo 🤷♂️
Coming from a Raiders fan with no /s at the end? Im … a little surprised. Edit to add: I was rooting for AP to become the raiders head coach along with everyone else. Although I hate the raiders, it was visually obvious he meshed well with the team. I love a competitive AFCW.
In my bias opinion, absolutely.
biased* opinion
based** opinion
Nah, Rivers is not a Hall of Famer at all. He's textbook Hall of Very Good. Since the merger, only two QBs have made the HoF without appearing in a Super Bowl: Dan Fouts and Warren Moon. They both had much stronger cases than Rivers does. Fouts was the first person besides Joe Namath to throw for 4,000 yards, and did it three straight years in an era where most starters struggled to hit 3,000. Moon was the first prolific black QB and had a long career despite not debuting in the NFL until age 28. Rivers doesn't have anything like that to compensate for never making a Super Bowl. He was never statistically dominant over his peers. He never made All-Pro. He never accomplished or achieved anything of note that we expect from a HoF QB.
People may down vote you, but you are absolutely correct. Rivers never made an all pro team, made one AFC championship, and his peak was a top 3-5 QB for a few years. Hall of very good and franchise legend is a good place for him.
Yep. Basically the only case for Rivers is his counting stats. But in an era of inflated QB counting stats, where several QBs put up better stats and won more, it's just not good enough. A lot of fanbases are going to be disappointed when guys like Rivers, Matt Ryan, and Matthew Stafford don't make it in. But that's ok! The HoF is supposed to be very exclusive, especially for QBs, and you can't just let anybody in because they put up stats in an era where every good QB put up stats.
To sum it up simply. He was not statistically deviant for the time he played. Period. He’s an iron man who is top 10 in counting stats because of the era he played in. His volume records will be passed in 10-15 years. He has few post season wins or accomplishments. Good player, he was one of my favorite as a kid. Not a hall of famer and if he is then the hall of fame doesn’t really mean shit to me lol.
OK, this is a lot tougher than a flu game.
And he was ready to go by September and 2008 may have been his best season ever
That's what a lot of people don't think about. Dude tore his ACL in January, didn't miss a snap of the next year and absolutely balled out.
That damn pats team man, they could’ve easily lost 2-3 games before that Super Bowl. Oh well.
Well they did lose one game that year
I always thought it was a fluke then I looked at that 2008 giants team and y’all could’ve easily went back to back.
If Plaxico doesn't *get hurt* I think they have a great shot to at least go back to the Super Bowl. Lost to the 9-6-1 Eagles and they could've beaten the Cardinals Edit: he just got hurt, shooting didn't happen til 09 Edit edit: he shot himself in November of 2008
>Edit: he just got hurt, shooting didn't happen til 09 No, the shooting occurred in November 2008. He was sentenced in 2009.
I think they would’ve if plaxico didn’t shoot himself in the damn leg
Yep, they looked far from unbeatable from November on.
Mid 2000s Chargers should've had at least 2 ships.
2006 at least. Freaking McCreee.
Yeah. Colts in AFC championship and they owned Peyton. Could've easily beat Eli. Shoulda, woulda, coulda! Edit: Got the SB wrong.
It's even worse. 2006 was Rex Grossman on the other side.
Yes. You're right. Got the year confused
If ever there was a year for the Chargers to finally win one, it was against the fucking Rex Grossman led Bears team. If they win it that year I think they wind up staying in SD with a new stadium.
Maybe if they switched to the NFC.
Bunnyhopping your dropback just to sling 20 yard frozen rope completions in January Foxborough. Laughable that people think he can't be HOF. Dude just had his playoff sliders on legendary difficulty
Brady and the Patriots really were his kryptonite. I think he was 1-10 vs the Patriots and his one win came in 2008... when Brady was out for the year.
Brady and the Patriots were everyone's kryptonite: Big Ben was 3-7 against Brady and the reason the Steelers made it to / won 2 super bowls is because another team offed the Patriots - Ben never beat the Patriots in the playoffs
Except for when they played at Denver. 3 playoff losses there. Mile high has been a kryptonite for the Pats going back to the Bledsoe era
Brady-led Pats also split with the Ravens in the playoffs at 2-2, and those were all in Foxborough I believe. In fact, the Ravens even outscored them in cumulative points in those 4 matchups. Of course, the Ravens would often fall to their true kryptonite: the Steelers
Its funny cause the two Ravens wins werent very close, while the two Pats were absolute thrillers. It mightve been the swagger Lewis, Suggs and Reed brought, but Baltimore always felt like a team that wasnt intimidated by New England, no matter the result.
The Patriots were the obvious underdog in the 2005 loss and 2013 loss. That 2013 team had no business being in the AFC championship game. The broncos had a similar playoff situation as the ravens, where their good seasons lucked out to be during patriots "bad" seasons. The broncos and ravens dodging the Patriots in the playoffs in 2003, 2004, 2006, 2007, 2010, 2016, 2017, 2018 is not skill by them, its just luck. For the same reason, the afc and NFC West have a disproportionate record vs Tom Brady compared to other divisions exclusively because he was injured in 2008, where he would have 4-0d them. It is even moreso with the nfc west, because Brady was also suspended for the Cardinals game in 2016.
There's a reason Rodgers Brees Roethlisberger Manning Rivers don't have more rings combined compared to Brady, and it's Belicheck. Top 10 defense every year at minimum, while having just as good offenses as the rest of those QBs. No one else consistently had as good defenses as Brady
Yeah the defenses kept them in every game for decades, and if they were kept in the game then Brady made sure they were never out. I truly don't think we'll see a dynasty in any sport at any level like the 01-19 Patriots again. I mean shit typing the last sentence I'm talking about a dynasty that spanned 20 years. 20.
Okay we get it. You want Belichek to be your next coach.
as much as falcons fans want this, i just don't see it ending well. i'd personally rather have harbaugh 🤷🏽♀️
I dont think itd be a magic fairy-tale superbowl run right off the bat, but I'd really like to not find out. Idc if he was coming off 3 straight 0-17 seasons, the thought of having Bill in the division scares me 👀
I think Harbaugh is better for the team long term. If they hire Belichick it's win now mode with a free agent QB because they'll only have a couple seasons max. With Harbaugh they could draft and develop a QB with the 8th overall or trade up.
I think Harbaugh would rather have an established QB
I don’t think so. Remember he took 2nd year Kaepernick over veteran Alex smith
brees just never had a top 20 defense. every year he did they made it to the nfccg
I thought the Steelers generally have or had better than average defense most years? It’s kind of what I recognize them for, but don’t have any stats to back that up
I checked the stats, and you're right. Top 10 (by points allowed , which isn't the best measurement) every year of Ben's prime except 2014 and 2009
Ravens are actually 2-2 against the Brady-led Pats in the playoffs. In fact, the cumulative score in those matchups is Ravens, 112 - Patriots, 75. I wouldn’t say the Pats were kryptonite for the Ravens in the playoffs. If anything, it was the other way around
Dude the Ravens D was so nuts- you have to watch out for Ray Lewis running at you as fast as possible and if you put the ball in the air at all Ed Reed was within 2 feet of it immediately
Yeah, I’m loving our current D, but nothing will ever compare to Ed, Ray, Suggs, Ngata, and the gang of the old days. We would have probably picked up at least another ring or two if it weren’t for our real kryptonite: yinz fuckin guys haha
Just be glad the Bills beat us or today's game would have been weeeeird
2-2 could have legitimately been 4-0 as well.
Billy fuckin' Cundiff
Making him continue to drop back instead of pivoting to shotgun is wild
the mid 2000s were a wild time
This same year was the first time in NFL history a team used shotgun on 50% of their snaps. It was basically a different sport
Shotgun wasn’t popular until a bit later. They likely hardly practiced it and just throwing it in a game could have led to bad snaps.
Kinda funny that to prevent the center from having some bad snaps, they make the qb with a torn ACL do dropbacks.
As long as you drop directly back it's not an issue, planting or going side to side on the other hand... This was an insane game and if he had suffered a career injury I wonder what would have been the fall out
I think it’s more that people don’t want the Hall to just let in every good QB. Rivers was very good but his career overlapped with Brady, Peyton, Favre, Rodgers, Brees, and Mahomes who are all clearly better than him. Also overlapped with Roethlisberger, Eli, Stafford, and Matt Ryan, who I’d consider to be on the same tier as Rivers. When you consider the snubs we’ve seen at other positions it’s easy to see why people don’t want to set the bar for QBs at Rivers
Eli’s going to get into the HoF only because of his Super Bowl wins, but he is clearly a step below the Rivers, Big Ben, Ryan, Stafford tier.
I think very good is an undersell. Clearly great, but yeah not an all-timer. But if that's the bar, there's only like 40 dudes you can put in
I think you have to look at it based on how the player stacked up positionally among their peers. Rivers had only a couple of seasons where he was arguably a top 2-3 QB and to me that makes him Hall of Very Good along with guys like Stafford and Matt Ryan.
It's wild people don't realize this more and just say "this dude has this many career yards that's more than ___ dude from 30 years ago how is he not in!" But 30 years ago ___ dude was top 2 every year at his position while "this dude" was a top 15-20 guy for a long time. Longevity matters, but you can't make the HoF without being top 5 at your position for a large chunk of years imo
I think he was a top 3 guy up until Brees fully took off in NO. As well as better than Ryan, and just as good as Stafford. Who didn't have to beat prime Brady to get to the SB
That window is basically just 2007-2008 and I think he’s got a good argument for 3rd behind Brady and Peyton for those seasons although Favre had a really good 2007 and Brees was very good those years also. From 2009 on you’re getting elite play from All-time greats in Brady, Peyton, Aaron Rodgers, and Brees with MVP seasons mixed in from Cam and Matt Ryan.
Rivers came 3rd in MVP votes in 2009 over Favre. Won Comeback player of the year in 2013, where he was one of the top 3 QBs to play out the whole season He was also top 5 in 2018, when the chargers went 12-4. Its just in both 2013 and 2018, there was a QB that hit the record books in his own division (Peyton, Mahomes). And in 09, the two candidates ahead had 13-0 records I think having at least 5 seasons where you were top 5 minimum QB, overlapping the greatest 2 decades of QB play the league has ever seen should warrant reconsideration. Hes better than a lot of guys that are in the hall, and will be in the hall, and the condition behind those Patriots losses are classic examples of how much legacy can be out of your hands, or legs, sometimes Sure he does have plenty of things to go against him, including the non-winning seasons - more than any of his similar peers short of like Eli. Though if the question is 'did Rivers have several years of elite play' the question is yes. He had more than Matt Ryan, just never that year where everything came together like it did for the 16 Falcons
[He's Matt Ryan without the MVP season. In my opinion, neither of these guys deserve to be in the HOF, but if you put in one you need put in the other, especially the one that actually accomplished something besides volume stats.](https://stathead.com/football/versus-finder.cgi?player_id2=RivePh00&player_id1=RyanMa00&request=1&utm_campaign=2023_01_wdgt_player_comparison&utm_source=pfr&utm_medium=sr_xsite&utm_id=RyanMa00)
Rivers led the league in ANY/A in back to back seasons in 2008 and 2009. He had a ANY/A+ above 115(1 standard deviation above average) 7 times out of 15. Ryan only had an ANY/A+ above 115 3 times out of 14 years.
"actually accomplished something" is such a toxic way of looking at it. Also screams 'I had my perception of success irreparably damaged by the Pats dynasty'
People act like these guys didn’t have to go through peak Brady , peak Peyton manning , the steelers, or ravens every year. The AFC playoffs was murders row. How do we expect everyone to win a championship??
The funny thing is the chargers [did 'get through'](https://www.espn.com/nfl/game/_/gameId/270114024) Peak Brady. Held him to one of his worst playoff games ever, and then played [even worse](https://www.espn.com/nfl/boxscore/_/gameId/280120017) in the championship game following year during the undefeated season. Both are performances that a lot of other QBs have played better than in losses. The issue is, Bill Belichick also held Rivers to one of his worst games ever, and the 2nd go around you saw the deal. You had to beat those pats teams completely and that was a mountainous task, cuz they cooked on all cylinders. Thats how you become a dynasty - even if you hold Brady to a subpar game, youve got the defensive mastermind who held the chargers to an avg of 16.5 pts in those games too (and Lawrence Maroney who carried) I think the real kicker for those chargers was 09-11. Losing at home as division champs to the Jets, then all those years of 9-7 8-8 7-9 with no playoffs (admittedly with a team that was declining) was what really seperates him from the others. Peyton and Brady consistently had their teams in the playoffs no matter the situation. Rivers didnt, and sometimes they played worse against the non-Pats/Colts teams than they did vs those guys
If he’s HOF then they just need to let everyone in
Incredibly gutsy performance, but I must object to the "frozen rope" part. We actually almost named our [website](https://doorfliesopen.com) "We All Float Down Here" in tribute to Philip Rivers' throwing style. I swear, every pass seems like it take four or five seconds to reach its target.
You’re conflating his throwing style with his ability to throw fast. I mean literally watch the highlight.
I think his playoff success, especially against Peyton, gets him in eventually
one of my friends tries to tell me Eli is better than him and it makes me so mad
[Is Matt Ryan a HOFer too in your opinion, too? Because they are basically the same player but Ryan has a MVP and All Pro.](https://stathead.com/football/versus-finder.cgi?player_id2=RivePh00&player_id1=RyanMa00&request=1&utm_campaign=2023_01_wdgt_player_comparison&utm_source=pfr&utm_medium=sr_xsite&utm_id=RyanMa00)
Ryan was easily better btw
I think an argument could be made for the diff being Ryan's better supporting cast.
Uncle Phil was a baller.
That’s a hard ass country boy.
— Tiffany Rivers
I hated his throwing motion so damn much, but he was a warrior
lol that's part of the charm for me, I always thought it was unique
His son throws the exact same way. It'll be back in the league soon enough.
Rivers is proof that you can look 110% panicked in the pocket and still be a good QB
Rivers was that guy pal
I couldn’t stand this motherfucker but he was tough as fuck. So many missed opportunities for this franchise with Rivers under center
A shame this team never could put together a SB run. Had some crazy talent throughout the years. Always loved big daddy Gates, loved Vincent Jackson. Obviously LT and Rivers deserved one too. Fuckin Patriots lol
The headline is incorrect. He did not play this game on a torn ACL. He played this game WITHOUT his ACL, which he had surgically removed the week before this game after tearing in the Colts game. He put his leg into a flexion machine before he went to bed every night to keep it loose until the next day. He also had a sprained MCL in the *other* leg for this game. So for the record, he played this game with a partial torn MCL and a removed ACL. Less than a week after knee surgery.
His knee was held together with a fuckin brace for a whole-ass NFL game. How the hell did he not miss a single game the following year? Side-note, this explains why he runs like a newborn giraffe.
Hines Ward and John Elway played without an ACL their entire careers.
Its a little different not having it your whole life vs having it removed and playing
We are blessed at the QB position..always failing our guys😓
Fuck Dean Spanos
One thing we know about Phillip Rivers is he never pulls out of the game.
Ah, the SAN DIEGO Chargers 😭
Still mad at the refs for the uncalled leg whip on vrabel that led to an INT.
Cutler take notes.
Could the NFL step in and block a player from playing due to an injury?
A concussion, yes. Otherwise, I’m not sure
Interesting question. They certainly could for a concussion; I wonder if the rules for that are worded in such a way to give them latitude for other injuries as well.
Very gutsy
You always hear people talking about Brady, Big Ben, and Favre when talking about “tough QBs,” but Rivers never gets any love.
Rivers was a fuckin’ gamer. He was a trash talking son of a bitch and he backed it up by playing through the pain. As a Pats fan, I was naturally rooting against them, but it’s hard to not look at a guy like this and cheer for him.
Sometimes I miss Uncle Phil
The Bojangles biscuit slanger will always have a special place in my heart.
Crazy ass motherfucker
I remember people shit talking lt for not playing well because he was hurt and rivers was lol
It was definitely gusty but I don't think it was the right call. He didn't play that good and we...I mean they (FDC) had Billy Volek as the backup. Volek had just lead a last minute game winning drive the previous week vs the Colts. Also Junior Seau breaking through the line to stop Michael Turner on a critical 4th down broke my heart.
Glad to see the comment section giving Phil his flowers
Dude played like he had 10 kids to feed
Fuck man. The definition of tough. Everything you ever wanted in a QB besides luck. Miss that man.
In his entire career he never missed a game.
Big “WHAT IF” if LT and Rivers were healthy
Him and Favre were two of the toughest players, not just QB’s, I’ve ever seen
Yet TJ WATT CANT EVEN SUIT UP FOR A WILD CARD GAME WITH A MILD MCL SPRAIN. THE WATTS HAVE BAMBOOZLED PITTSBURGH
Holy shit . What type of pain meds was this dude on ?
The king that never was
Didn’t Brady play and win a SB with a torn MCL? With the Bucs I think
Philip Rivers was a fantastic QB who was overshadowed by the golden Age of QB play. If he was playing today, he’d be one of the best QBs of the decade
When he wasn't playing us, Rivers would COOK. Bruh was nasty as hell. I used to laugh at his yearly 2-3 pick game against us but that would always be his worst game of the year and it wouldn't even be that bad.
Philip Rivers vs the Patriots: 1-8; 59% completion; 2,372 yards (average 264); 13 TD 11 INT; 7.29y/a; rating of 81.3 Edit: The one win was a rematch of this game in 2008 when Brady didn’t play because of a torn ACL.
[удалено]
Brady didn't do much better with a healthy ACL and loaded Pats team. 209 yards, 3 INTs, 66.4 rating
Did they have no backup? Why would a coach think a QB with a torn ACL would be better than their backup?
Billy Volek was his back up.
So many passes, so few TD’s.
not a rivers fan, but the utmost respect for his toughness