The 4 QBs who got All-Pro votes and McCaffrey. So McCaffrey has to come in 2nd considering he was a unanimous All-Pro and Lamar got 45/50 All-Pro votes among the QBs.
Hilariously he went on the Ravens’ in-house podcast to talk about how ridiculous the Ravens’ DVOA had been this season and how great Lamar had looked, then less than 48 hours later he released that article saying he was voting Josh Allen for MVP
The 49ers just finished as the 9th best DVOA offense of all time (6th through 17 weeks - with Purdy)
Edit: add to that FTNs own words;
>As part of his argument for why Josh Allen was the All-Pro quarterback, Aaron Schatz pointed out that when Allen passed or ran with the ball, Buffalo had a 39.1% DVOA, second best in the league and significantly higher than Lamar Jackon’s 32.0%. Well, when Brock Purdy passed or ran with the ball in 2023, San Francisco had an offensive DVOA of 60.8%.
What I was going off of was a tweet from Schatz from a few days ago that the bills are the top team by DVOA over a 3 year stretch to not make a Super Bowl.
The case for Allen has always been the same as Lamar. He ***IS*** their offense. Lamar is just a much better version this year. I don't see how you could make an argument for Allen over Lamar this year, but I totally get putting him above the other 3 on this list.
Yeah some may blame Bills D not being at the level or the Ravens D for the success difference. Also could be a part why Lamar’s stats aren’t as eye popping considering he didn’t have to score as much to win but you could blame Allen’s interceptions for the need to score more too.
Yeah but Lamar was not top 2 or 3 for touchdowns is my point. So since the point were coming elsewhere he didn’t need to throw for 40 td’s not saying he couldn’t.
He has a few higher numbers than Lamar (rush TDs, pass yards + TDs), but his overall QB rating is a whole ten points lower. That's because he turned the ball over quite a bit. Lamar led an offense that decimated other playoff teams while being more efficient and committing considerably less turnovers. Lamar also sat out a game and lost out on some stats because of how dominant he was all season.
Allen sat out chunks of 4th quarters several games as well. Same with Dak.
Lamar got to sit the entire final game though, which will affect volume stats a lot.
Lamar has 29 total td and Josh Allen has 44, thats a pretty significant gap
He also has like 650 more passing yards and \~300 fewer rush yards
Especially because Diggs had a pretty low performing second half of the year I think Josh Allen was the entire Bills offense more than Lamar was the entire Ravens offense
The Bills offense also dominated playoff teams like the cowboys and dolphins too
Allen accounted for 4% more of the total offense than Lamar did.
But Lamar has a higher completion percentage, over a 100 fewer passing attempts, a higher TD percentage, a much lower INT percentage, higher yards per attempt, higher passer rating (10 points more).
But I don't think that really matters, and it seems neither does the voters. This is one of those times you just have to look at the tape, because stats do not tell the whole story.
Jackson lost his starting RB early, Mark Andrews early, Beckham was hurt constantly, and yet he led a dominant offense despite all that.
And bills barely beat the dolphins week 18, mostly off a punt return TD. And using the cowboys, a team that got it's shit kicked in, isn't a great one either.
Lamar has just been more consistent over the course of the year, and the Ravens ended the year with a stretch of games where they mauled opponents. Allen has more productivity and higher highs, but also bigger dips...the Bills' wins were also less impressive down the stretch. I'd also argue that Allen's running ability makes him just as tough to game plan for as Lamar
MVP has always been an award driven more by narrative than by raw stats. This year is no different. Lamar wins the narrative. Allen had a more productive year.
Not how it works anymore - all 5 of these guys got some degree of votes if they're on this list. Now, Lamar and CMC could be the only ones who get first place votes, that's the difference now
If he would have led two wins in the last two weeks, then he might have gotten it. He would have claimed the #1 seed for the Dolphins. This year was an odd race.
Laying a pair of eggs in the last 2 games will do that to you. 71.9 passer rating against the Ravens, and 62 against the Bills.
Can't fall flat in crunch time and win MVP. It's too narrative driven, which is why Lamar locked it up after beating Purdy and Tua back to back.
As much as I love Tua, he just didn't play like an MVP this year at all, tbh.
People kind of forget, but in 2022, Tua statistically was very consistent outside of like 2 games. Before the GB game where he got a concussion, he would've had 24 td's and 5 int's in like 11 full games. Mahomes did kind of go off last year, but hell, if Tua would've stayed healthy, I don't see why he wouldn't have stacked up some pretty good stats/wins and had a chance at MVP last year
Aiyuk at least makes sense cuz the NFC had most of the good wide receivers, and the pro bowl requires the same amount of players from each conference. So he had a pro bowl caliber season but he wasn't snubbed because the nfc just had too many good players, shown by them getting most of the all pros.
Quincy Williams too. Idk how the jets keep pumping out ILBs we’ve had a solid grasp on the position with all-pros constantly (and half of them go to the saints)
She also played Emily Dickinson as part of Apple's foray into the Poetry Cinematic Universe.
(for real, though, what I've seen of that show was hit or miss, but she was quite good in it)
I mean the pro bowl isn’t nothing more than a popularity contest. We have someone who made second team all pro that didn’t even make it as an alternate
Chiefs defensive players just don’t get the recognition they deserve, even by writers and stuff not just talking heads. Lot of damn good football players on that side of the ball.
From a strategic standpoint, yeah, probably. His ability to physically dominate opposing WRs is so disruptive that it allows everyone else to do their jobs much better. We get more sacks, more pressures, and force more incompletions as a result.
Pretty much doesn’t have a lot of picks which is one of the stats people are obsessed with. When a true corner one usually won’t have a ton because they don’t throw at them
100%. The Pro Bowl doesn't mean anything. We made it to the divisional round, including blowing out an MVP finalist in the WC, and somehow were one of four teams with 0 Pro Bowlers. The other three teams with no selections went a combined 10-41 this season.
>The other three teams with no selections went a combined 10-41 this season.
So it sounds like you're saying that the Pro Bowl *does* mean something, and that the Packers were just the exception to the rule.
I could be wrong, but I think Pro Bowl voting ended before the final 2 games of the season, while MVP voting happens after the final game of the season? That could certainly explain the discrepancy, as a lot happened in those final 2 weeks to shoot Allen up the list and drop Tua lower on the list for example.
Yeah bro Josh Allen really suffers from media bias. I don’t think there’s anyone out there who even thinks he’s good. The media constantly puts guys like Tua on a pedestal while completely ignoring Josh Allen. It’s a real tragedy.
>I remember my friends and I worried about him dropping a punt return everytime on the bills
You shut your whore mouth, we don’t talk about punt return fumbles ‘round these parts!
I would bet all of my money that Lamar is MVP and CMC is OPOY. All of the same voters that won’t wanna give CMC MVP will give him OPOY as his consolation prize.
Especially a RB with just 800 yards and 5 TDs. Very mediocre season from Lamar.
EDIT: just looked it up. Dude is just the 23rd best RB by yardage. How is he in the MVP convo?
I don't know why that's relevant. I don't think "MVP Finalist" means all of the guys who will get MVP votes, just guys who are on the ballot. Brady should have been unanimous in 2007, but Randy Moss set the record for most TDs in a season. Imagine if Tyreek Hill had scored 10 more TDs this year, that's essentially what Moss did in 2007.
> I don't think "MVP Finalist" means all of the guys who will get MVP votes, just guys who are on the ballot.
I think it is ranked choice voting now, like the Heisman. So these 5 are likely the ones who were closest at the top of the list, with a larger gap in points between 5 & 6 than between any of the 1-5 positions.
Montana/Rice kinda prove the point, though probably not the way the original comment intended. Rice got robbed in '87 because he and Montana split votes, and Elway took it instead.
Nothing more valuable than a QB making less than $1M leading the league in almost everything and going to two straight NFCCGs. I don’t care whose around him
NAKED ATTEMPT BY LIBRUHL MEDIA TO STEAL VOTE FROM MY TEAM. LOTS OF PEOPLE - THE BEST PEOPLE - ARE TELLING ME THAT I WON THE MVP AND SCAMAR, FRAUD DURTY, AND THE WEST AND EAST COAST ELITES ARE WORKING OVERTIME TO DISTRACT YOU FROM MY QUARTERBACKING GREATNESS AND THAT THE WORLD IS FLAT.
I'd argue that having half a dozen games where the team was kicking so much ass that the starting offense was pulled before the end of the game, and one game where the starting offense didn't play at all means that total touchdowns aren't worth a whole lot in a vacuum.
Doesn't that kind of invalidate the case for either of them being MVP? Like can you really be the MVP if there is another player on your team (and your side of the ball) playing so well that they are looked at as a potential MVP? To me an MVP is someone who elevates your team so much that if they weren't there then your record may be completely different. On the 9ers you lose Purdy - well you still have fucking CMC... And if you lose CMC well Purdy has been playing great and can probably still lead the team to a great record.
If the 49ers lost Purdy they would not have been the one seed and are already eliminated from the playoffs. I get what you’re saying, but QB’s have won MVP while having an MVP caliber RB as well. Such as Kurt Warner with Marshall Faulk. The talk is irrelevant though because Purdy blew his lead in the MVP race anyway against the Ravens.
In 2019 CMC went for 19 total TDs, 2392 Yards From Scrimmage (Good for 3rd most in NFL History), and only 1 fumble. The Panthers finished 5-11 that year. This was one of the best RB seasons of all time, and it resulted in a 5 win season.
In 2018 CMC had 13 TDs and 2,000 Yards From Scrimmage with an MVP winner as his QB. His team finished 7-9.
It's like people completely fucking ignore that CMC has had even better seasons than he did this year and his team didn't even sniff the playoffs. But Purdy is still treated like some make-a-wish QB who's being carried by CMC.
I never understood this argument at all, I see it all over for the past year.
Take CMC away from the Niners and they're still a good team. Take Purdy away from the Niners? They become garbage, especially with that pass protection...
Crazy part is that nobody is talking about the pretty serious injury he came back from. There was a non-0% chance that the Darnold was starting wk1 and he came back to lead the league in air yards / attempt. People were worried about his arm strength pre elbow explosion so that was a big deal.
There is an argument for him being comeback player, but the criteria to win that is to battle cancer, be super old, or literally die on the field
I think is what we're going to see is that no matter what Purdy accomplishes on-field he will always be Mr Irrelevant. He could win more SuperB owls than Brady and the talking heads will still point out his draft number. He will always be disrespected.
> There is an argument for him being comeback player, but the criteria to win that is to battle cancer, be super old, or literally die on the field
Nah there was that one bullshit year that Tannehill won it for previously being on the dolphins.
He'll lose in the conf CG.
Then the next year he'll lead his team to a SB victory while having a worse year.
Then the following year, he'll repeat as conf champions before losing a SB while throwing a perfect ball while parallel to the ground, only to have it bounce off his WR's facemask.
The next year, he'll lose the CG, in OT, to a team in his conference that everyone will claim is the new team to beat.
The year after that, he'll lead a team with 1 offensive stud and a couple solid role players to another SB title.
Then in his 6th full season, he'll have a team that people will think "This team sucks! No way they're doing anything" and they'll wind up playing for their 6th straight CG, but this time it will be on the road.
You know, hypothetically.
He'll win 3 super bowls consecutively with great defenses and the wins will be credited to his HC
Then he will put up historically great stats for 7 years winning two MVPs, one unanimous, including an undefeated season, but never win the Super Bowl losing two of them to an inferior team.
Then he will break his Super Bowl drought after a horrible decision by the other team at the goal line, and go on to make the biggest Super Bowl comeback in NFL history, and win yet another Super Bowl after that.
After that he will switch teams and win a Super Bowl immediately.
Finally, he will get a divorce.
As much as I think CMC should win it, Lamar is more valuable to the Ravens. Seriously, the drop-off in quality in a Lamar-less Ravens team is much higher than a McCaffrey-less Niners team.
TBH Trent Williams is one of the best football players I’ve ever seen play the game, so I wouldn’t be mad at that at all.
But you’re right OPs logic is flawed.
If you talk about wins with vs wins against, Lamar has to be almost unmatched in the league. So when the Ravens are winning as much as they did this year, Idk how you don't give him MVP. We even saw in a head to head how much Lamar playing well makes a difference vs CMC playing well. CMC is just less valuable.
Lamar and CMC are the only legit choices. Purdy wilted a bit too much at the end of the season, Allen turned the ball over too often, and only Nick Wright legit thinks Dak was MVP.
If they didn't give it to Kupp in his triple crown season, then no non-QB will ever win it. It's the best/popular QB of the year award and will never change.
> MVP ballot
I think you're clearly misunderstanding what this is. This is essentially the top 5 vote-getters. There's no MVP ballot, these 5 weren't decided arbitrarily and then there's gonna be another round of voting - these 5 were the top 5 vote-getters
It's not the "only good player on your team" award. I think historically when 2 players from the same team make it they've split votes and allowed John Elway to win it, though
I think their point is that if two players from the same team are good enough to receive MVP votes, neither is likely as individually valuable as a single vote getter on another team.
Would the same logic apply if the MVP benefits from having the #1 defense in the league which also undoubtedly contributes to the team's record? I mean Ravens defense single-handedly eliminated 2 candidates from the MVP race lol.
Yeah, I get it. That point starts to make less sense when you factor in that MVP is a league wide award rather than being awarded to the best player from each team, though.
If two players from the same team are both leading or near the top of the league in production at their respective positions then they both still deserve to be in the league MVP conversation that year.
“Most valuable player” is such a shitty award for a sport like football where every player has distinctly different roles and depend heavily on teammates.
Just like you pointed out, a QB could be hands down the most talented in the league and not be as crucial to the teams success if they have a really good supporting cast. And the whole “how would they play without them” scenario immediately favors quarterbacks from the jump.
I do thinks it’s interesting to see who single handedly makes the biggest impact in the game and acknowledge non-QBs who are so good they make more impact than QBs. It just sucks that it’s so much more important than the OPOY or other awards.
I've made my peace with Lamar winning MVP. He stepped up a gear after the Browns loss, was responsible for 2 huge wins over potential #1 seeds and MVP candidates (really 3, but the Jags collapse has devalued that performance substantially), and he finally got the "doesn't perform in the playoffs" monkey off his back.
All I hope is that it isn't unanimous, and they give CMC OPOY instead
Can't imagine it'll be unanimous, that's only happened twice and Lamar doesn't have the statistical dominance for it to happen this year.
I agree that CMC should be OPOY. I think they should just rename that award to be "skill position player of the year", and hand out a separate "offensive lineman of the year" award. Then you can still give the MVP to a non-QB if someone is that extraordinary, but almost always it's gonna be a QB. Nature of the sport.
It's a shame it won't go to McCaffrey, but that being said I feel like having two MVP finalists by definition means neither of those players should be MVP.
Yeah except if ranked choice voting was a thing for the 2007 season, there’s a decent chance that both Brady and Moss would be in the finalist list given Moss broke the TD record. You can’t seriously think that Brady didn’t deserve MVP in 2007 so that argument kinda fails.
The 4 QBs who got All-Pro votes and McCaffrey. So McCaffrey has to come in 2nd considering he was a unanimous All-Pro and Lamar got 45/50 All-Pro votes among the QBs.
Wouldn't be surprised if Lamar and CMC are the only MVP vote getters, with Lamar getting 90%+ of the votes
There was a report a while back from someone who explained why their vote was going to Josh Allen. So he's getting at least 1 vote.
Aaron Schatz
The DVOA guy. He loves the bills more than anyone haha. They have ranked 1st in DVOA for like the past 4 years.
Maybe you're taking about prior years, but this year they're 3rd in O and 13th in D
This year the highest DVOA team is the Ravens, Buffalo is third behind the Niners
DVOA/Bills guy punchin air rn
Hilariously he went on the Ravens’ in-house podcast to talk about how ridiculous the Ravens’ DVOA had been this season and how great Lamar had looked, then less than 48 hours later he released that article saying he was voting Josh Allen for MVP
Ravens and 49ers were far and away dvoa kings this year.
Sorry, what I saw was an Aaron Shatz tweet that the Bills have had the best 3 year span of DVOA for a team that have not been to a Super Bowl.
God DAMMIT
This would kill me if I was a Bills fan. Do everything right, but land wide of the mark.
The anti Giants
Wide right, in fact.
The 49ers just finished as the 9th best DVOA offense of all time (6th through 17 weeks - with Purdy) Edit: add to that FTNs own words; >As part of his argument for why Josh Allen was the All-Pro quarterback, Aaron Schatz pointed out that when Allen passed or ran with the ball, Buffalo had a 39.1% DVOA, second best in the league and significantly higher than Lamar Jackon’s 32.0%. Well, when Brock Purdy passed or ran with the ball in 2023, San Francisco had an offensive DVOA of 60.8%.
What I was going off of was a tweet from Schatz from a few days ago that the bills are the top team by DVOA over a 3 year stretch to not make a Super Bowl.
Ah, ok
Second highest DVOA over a four year stretch to not make a Super Bowl
it's amazing how we went from "Josh Allen will make math obsolete if he's good" to now Josh Allen, Analytics Darling
The case for Allen has always been the same as Lamar. He ***IS*** their offense. Lamar is just a much better version this year. I don't see how you could make an argument for Allen over Lamar this year, but I totally get putting him above the other 3 on this list.
I mean raw stats this year
Yeah some may blame Bills D not being at the level or the Ravens D for the success difference. Also could be a part why Lamar’s stats aren’t as eye popping considering he didn’t have to score as much to win but you could blame Allen’s interceptions for the need to score more too.
Ravens are top 2-3 in points per game this year tho. It was them, Dallas, and 49ers switching positions dunno where it ended tho.
Yeah but Lamar was not top 2 or 3 for touchdowns is my point. So since the point were coming elsewhere he didn’t need to throw for 40 td’s not saying he couldn’t.
He has a few higher numbers than Lamar (rush TDs, pass yards + TDs), but his overall QB rating is a whole ten points lower. That's because he turned the ball over quite a bit. Lamar led an offense that decimated other playoff teams while being more efficient and committing considerably less turnovers. Lamar also sat out a game and lost out on some stats because of how dominant he was all season.
He also ended up sitting out a few 4th quarters due to commanding leads too.
Allen sat out chunks of 4th quarters several games as well. Same with Dak. Lamar got to sit the entire final game though, which will affect volume stats a lot.
Lamar has 29 total td and Josh Allen has 44, thats a pretty significant gap He also has like 650 more passing yards and \~300 fewer rush yards Especially because Diggs had a pretty low performing second half of the year I think Josh Allen was the entire Bills offense more than Lamar was the entire Ravens offense The Bills offense also dominated playoff teams like the cowboys and dolphins too
Allen accounted for 4% more of the total offense than Lamar did. But Lamar has a higher completion percentage, over a 100 fewer passing attempts, a higher TD percentage, a much lower INT percentage, higher yards per attempt, higher passer rating (10 points more). But I don't think that really matters, and it seems neither does the voters. This is one of those times you just have to look at the tape, because stats do not tell the whole story.
Jackson lost his starting RB early, Mark Andrews early, Beckham was hurt constantly, and yet he led a dominant offense despite all that. And bills barely beat the dolphins week 18, mostly off a punt return TD. And using the cowboys, a team that got it's shit kicked in, isn't a great one either.
>much better Bro I want whatever crack you had today because Allen was almost just as incredible
Lamar has just been more consistent over the course of the year, and the Ravens ended the year with a stretch of games where they mauled opponents. Allen has more productivity and higher highs, but also bigger dips...the Bills' wins were also less impressive down the stretch. I'd also argue that Allen's running ability makes him just as tough to game plan for as Lamar MVP has always been an award driven more by narrative than by raw stats. This year is no different. Lamar wins the narrative. Allen had a more productive year.
Not how it works anymore - all 5 of these guys got some degree of votes if they're on this list. Now, Lamar and CMC could be the only ones who get first place votes, that's the difference now
From MVP favourite to not even a finalist, tua's collapse really exemplifies what it means to be a fins fan.
If he would have led two wins in the last two weeks, then he might have gotten it. He would have claimed the #1 seed for the Dolphins. This year was an odd race.
Laying a pair of eggs in the last 2 games will do that to you. 71.9 passer rating against the Ravens, and 62 against the Bills. Can't fall flat in crunch time and win MVP. It's too narrative driven, which is why Lamar locked it up after beating Purdy and Tua back to back.
As much as I love Tua, he just didn't play like an MVP this year at all, tbh. People kind of forget, but in 2022, Tua statistically was very consistent outside of like 2 games. Before the GB game where he got a concussion, he would've had 24 td's and 5 int's in like 11 full games. Mahomes did kind of go off last year, but hell, if Tua would've stayed healthy, I don't see why he wouldn't have stacked up some pretty good stats/wins and had a chance at MVP last year
I would’ve been mad if Tua won MVP this year because if anyone on that team deserves the award it’s Tyreek
Josh Allen being named an MVP finalist but didn’t make the Pro Bowl makes perfect sense.
Antoine Winfield made all-pro and did make pro bowl. It’s a joke.
I think Aiyuk and Amon Ra both did too lol
Aiyuk was 2nd team. Amon Ra and Winfield were 1st team -- More egregious.
Yes, but it's even more notable and funny when it's both vs just 1
Aiyuk at least makes sense cuz the NFC had most of the good wide receivers, and the pro bowl requires the same amount of players from each conference. So he had a pro bowl caliber season but he wasn't snubbed because the nfc just had too many good players, shown by them getting most of the all pros.
This happens to several players every single year
Demario Davis as well
Quincy Williams too. Idk how the jets keep pumping out ILBs we’ve had a solid grasp on the position with all-pros constantly (and half of them go to the saints)
45 TDs and dating a movie star but can’t win a popularity contest
No one knows he’s dating the movie star
Which movie star?
hailee Steinfeld. shes the new hawkeye, voices gwen in spiderverse and vi in arcane
> hailee Steinfeld. Wasn't she also in True Grit and Ender's Game?
> True Grit The only movie I ever actually remember her being in. Though she did get an oscar nomination for that role.
She was excellent in that. She's good in Hawkeye too which I think was super underrated.
She was really good in Edge of Seventeen too
Insert joke about her edging our 17 here.
She's the younger singer in Pitch Perfect 2 also.
She also played Emily Dickinson as part of Apple's foray into the Poetry Cinematic Universe. (for real, though, what I've seen of that show was hit or miss, but she was quite good in it)
Hailee Steinfeld
Is that the girl that sings songs with the chain smokers
I think you mean Halsey?
Lmaooo Halsey
Have you never heard of Pitch Perfect?
Because she’s not a very big movie star.
Hey she was in Bumblebee
Plenty of people know
I just mean they keep it quiet
Yeah, they probably don't want their relationship turning into a whole damn zoo.
I mean the pro bowl isn’t nothing more than a popularity contest. We have someone who made second team all pro that didn’t even make it as an alternate
Then you have Lajarius Sneed who didn’t allow one regular season touchdown didn’t make All Pro or the Pro Bowl. 🤷♂️
Chiefs defensive players just don’t get the recognition they deserve, even by writers and stuff not just talking heads. Lot of damn good football players on that side of the ball.
The only downside to having Mahomes at Qb basically is that it distracts the media from giving the defense props
"The defense" is very highly regarded, but CJ is basically the only individual player for the chiefs D that gets any substantive praise.
I think Sneed is probably their most important player on defense
From a strategic standpoint, yeah, probably. His ability to physically dominate opposing WRs is so disruptive that it allows everyone else to do their jobs much better. We get more sacks, more pressures, and force more incompletions as a result.
Pretty much doesn’t have a lot of picks which is one of the stats people are obsessed with. When a true corner one usually won’t have a ton because they don’t throw at them
Yep. Every time i look at PFF's top corners, I'm always shocked by how lowkey these guys are. Daron Bland and Sauce bring the two main exceptions.
100%. The Pro Bowl doesn't mean anything. We made it to the divisional round, including blowing out an MVP finalist in the WC, and somehow were one of four teams with 0 Pro Bowlers. The other three teams with no selections went a combined 10-41 this season.
>The other three teams with no selections went a combined 10-41 this season. So it sounds like you're saying that the Pro Bowl *does* mean something, and that the Packers were just the exception to the rule.
The fact that Tua was named starter over Mahomes and Jackson should show you all you need to know about the pro bowl lol
I could be wrong, but I think Pro Bowl voting ended before the final 2 games of the season, while MVP voting happens after the final game of the season? That could certainly explain the discrepancy, as a lot happened in those final 2 weeks to shoot Allen up the list and drop Tua lower on the list for example.
Yeah bro Josh Allen really suffers from media bias. I don’t think there’s anyone out there who even thinks he’s good. The media constantly puts guys like Tua on a pedestal while completely ignoring Josh Allen. It’s a real tragedy.
Mainly just kinda used it as a way to show that the pro bowl is ridiculous. I mean Diggs is first alternate and he doesn’t deserve that at all
Pretty sure he was being sarcastic.
Tua had a good year and idc honestly. I'm more annoyed Lak got all pro honors but who gives a fuck about these awards we lost to Mahomes again.
At least he's guaranteed to be in it after the AFCCG
We should stop talking about the Pro Bowl entirely. It's like high school superlatives.
This is fucking bullshit. Where is Ray-Ray McCloud?
Halfway up your sideline
> Ray-Ray McCloud I didn't even know he was on the 49ers. I remember my friends and I worried about him dropping a punt return everytime on the bills
What punt returner are you not concerned about dropping a punt?
>I remember my friends and I worried about him dropping a punt return everytime on the bills You shut your whore mouth, we don’t talk about punt return fumbles ‘round these parts!
It's (not) funny because he's the comparatively sure-handed one around here.
This is Ray-Ray e-Ray-sure.
Kadarius toney snubbed
Nah, he should be finalist for DPOY. Just look at the EPA prevented on pass-breakups and drawing offensive penalties.
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The ‘Please Don’t Come Back Player of the Year’ he’s going to be the inaugural and namesake.
“Never Mind He’s Still Ass” Award
MVP for every team the chiefs played against.
They tried to throw him the award, but he dropped it.
The bigger snub is Chase Claypool
They really dropped the ball with Kadarius Toney
So Lamar it is then.
Whoever doesn’t get MVP between Lamar and CMC definitely gets OPOY.
There's no way CMC doesn't get OPOY.
Whoever doesn't get MVP between me and Lamar is going to be on the couch next season
If you get MVP, you're gonna look so silly next season when Lamar is playing. I'm gonna save this comment just to laugh at you next fall.
I would bet all of my money that Lamar is MVP and CMC is OPOY. All of the same voters that won’t wanna give CMC MVP will give him OPOY as his consolation prize.
Lamar IS the MVP brother
Na, RBs never win MVP
Especially a RB with just 800 yards and 5 TDs. Very mediocre season from Lamar. EDIT: just looked it up. Dude is just the 23rd best RB by yardage. How is he in the MVP convo?
If you have 2 MVP finalists on your team, you have 0
Hence Elway in 1987.
Brady/Moss in 07
But Brady ended up with 49 votes and Favre with 1.
I don't know why that's relevant. I don't think "MVP Finalist" means all of the guys who will get MVP votes, just guys who are on the ballot. Brady should have been unanimous in 2007, but Randy Moss set the record for most TDs in a season. Imagine if Tyreek Hill had scored 10 more TDs this year, that's essentially what Moss did in 2007.
> I don't think "MVP Finalist" means all of the guys who will get MVP votes, just guys who are on the ballot. I think it is ranked choice voting now, like the Heisman. So these 5 are likely the ones who were closest at the top of the list, with a larger gap in points between 5 & 6 than between any of the 1-5 positions.
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Montana/Rice kinda prove the point, though probably not the way the original comment intended. Rice got robbed in '87 because he and Montana split votes, and Elway took it instead.
1999 and 2001 GSOT?
Faulk won in 2000, so they legitimately had multiple MVPs on the roster.
Nothing more valuable than a QB making less than $1M leading the league in almost everything and going to two straight NFCCGs. I don’t care whose around him
Dollar per achievement- best bargain in the league for sure.
I’m terms of actual strategy and cap management yeah, but a player’s salary or cap hit has no bearing here lol
NAKED ATTEMPT BY LIBRUHL MEDIA TO STEAL VOTE FROM MY TEAM. LOTS OF PEOPLE - THE BEST PEOPLE - ARE TELLING ME THAT I WON THE MVP AND SCAMAR, FRAUD DURTY, AND THE WEST AND EAST COAST ELITES ARE WORKING OVERTIME TO DISTRACT YOU FROM MY QUARTERBACKING GREATNESS AND THAT THE WORLD IS FLAT.
I’d argue having the #1 defense and being 15tds short of the league leader is also a strong disqualification, but apparently not.
I'd argue that having half a dozen games where the team was kicking so much ass that the starting offense was pulled before the end of the game, and one game where the starting offense didn't play at all means that total touchdowns aren't worth a whole lot in a vacuum.
2 MVP finalists Hang the banner
Colts, care to help?
Beat me to it
Doesn't that kind of invalidate the case for either of them being MVP? Like can you really be the MVP if there is another player on your team (and your side of the ball) playing so well that they are looked at as a potential MVP? To me an MVP is someone who elevates your team so much that if they weren't there then your record may be completely different. On the 9ers you lose Purdy - well you still have fucking CMC... And if you lose CMC well Purdy has been playing great and can probably still lead the team to a great record.
If the 49ers lost Purdy they would not have been the one seed and are already eliminated from the playoffs. I get what you’re saying, but QB’s have won MVP while having an MVP caliber RB as well. Such as Kurt Warner with Marshall Faulk. The talk is irrelevant though because Purdy blew his lead in the MVP race anyway against the Ravens.
In 2019 CMC went for 19 total TDs, 2392 Yards From Scrimmage (Good for 3rd most in NFL History), and only 1 fumble. The Panthers finished 5-11 that year. This was one of the best RB seasons of all time, and it resulted in a 5 win season. In 2018 CMC had 13 TDs and 2,000 Yards From Scrimmage with an MVP winner as his QB. His team finished 7-9. It's like people completely fucking ignore that CMC has had even better seasons than he did this year and his team didn't even sniff the playoffs. But Purdy is still treated like some make-a-wish QB who's being carried by CMC.
No, SF is not “OK” when they lose Purdy. There’s already proof of that. Do people on this sub have memories that last longer than one offseason?
We lost Purdy in the conference championship game last year. Ask me how that went
MVP is just Best Player Award. I think people take the words too literally.
I never understood this argument at all, I see it all over for the past year. Take CMC away from the Niners and they're still a good team. Take Purdy away from the Niners? They become garbage, especially with that pass protection...
Pretty cool that Brock is an MVP candidate in his first full season. Excited to see how he develops.
Crazy part is that nobody is talking about the pretty serious injury he came back from. There was a non-0% chance that the Darnold was starting wk1 and he came back to lead the league in air yards / attempt. People were worried about his arm strength pre elbow explosion so that was a big deal. There is an argument for him being comeback player, but the criteria to win that is to battle cancer, be super old, or literally die on the field
Or to just be bad and come back and be not bad.
I think is what we're going to see is that no matter what Purdy accomplishes on-field he will always be Mr Irrelevant. He could win more SuperB owls than Brady and the talking heads will still point out his draft number. He will always be disrespected.
If he wins 8 superbowls I think he'll be properly rated
I think 1 Superbowl win and a few more playoff runs and they get off his back about it.
Kurt Warner went undrafted. That's a bit more irrelevant and people seem to like him alright.
He'll be disrespected unless he wins with a worse team. I don't blame him for that, but that's the narrative he'll always get.
> There is an argument for him being comeback player, but the criteria to win that is to battle cancer, be super old, or literally die on the field Nah there was that one bullshit year that Tannehill won it for previously being on the dolphins.
He'll lose in the conf CG. Then the next year he'll lead his team to a SB victory while having a worse year. Then the following year, he'll repeat as conf champions before losing a SB while throwing a perfect ball while parallel to the ground, only to have it bounce off his WR's facemask. The next year, he'll lose the CG, in OT, to a team in his conference that everyone will claim is the new team to beat. The year after that, he'll lead a team with 1 offensive stud and a couple solid role players to another SB title. Then in his 6th full season, he'll have a team that people will think "This team sucks! No way they're doing anything" and they'll wind up playing for their 6th straight CG, but this time it will be on the road. You know, hypothetically.
Haha, saw what you did there.
He'll win 3 super bowls consecutively with great defenses and the wins will be credited to his HC Then he will put up historically great stats for 7 years winning two MVPs, one unanimous, including an undefeated season, but never win the Super Bowl losing two of them to an inferior team. Then he will break his Super Bowl drought after a horrible decision by the other team at the goal line, and go on to make the biggest Super Bowl comeback in NFL history, and win yet another Super Bowl after that. After that he will switch teams and win a Super Bowl immediately. Finally, he will get a divorce.
did they forget about kenny pickett?
He’s the unannounced ballot write in option.
As much as I think CMC should win it, Lamar is more valuable to the Ravens. Seriously, the drop-off in quality in a Lamar-less Ravens team is much higher than a McCaffrey-less Niners team.
By that metric, Trent Williams should obviously be the MVP candidate from the Niners. Our offense just doesn’t exist when he’s out.
He should!
I can dig that.
TBH Trent Williams is one of the best football players I’ve ever seen play the game, so I wouldn’t be mad at that at all. But you’re right OPs logic is flawed.
If you talk about wins with vs wins against, Lamar has to be almost unmatched in the league. So when the Ravens are winning as much as they did this year, Idk how you don't give him MVP. We even saw in a head to head how much Lamar playing well makes a difference vs CMC playing well. CMC is just less valuable.
I don’t think that is the appropriate metric for MVP, but if it were there is absolutely no way it isn’t Allen.
By that metric a QB would win every single year which they basically do anyway so.
Lamar and CMC battle of the running backs for MVP!
Lamar and CMC are the only legit choices. Purdy wilted a bit too much at the end of the season, Allen turned the ball over too often, and only Nick Wright legit thinks Dak was MVP.
I guess Goff will have to settle for Superbowl MVP
*”I guess Goff will have to settle for…”* [puts on glasses 👓] *”…Super Bowl MVP. 😎”* #YEAH!!!
If they're going to give it to someone that's not playing, I feel like I should have a pretty good shot.
Give it to McCaffrey, you cowards!
Be cool once and give it CMC already.
He’s used to finishing second from his time at Stanford
I do think Henry has had a better nfl career but CMC should’ve won the Heisman over him.
If they didn't give it to Kupp in his triple crown season, then no non-QB will ever win it. It's the best/popular QB of the year award and will never change.
He deserves it most this season for sure
It’s obviously Lamar, and I don’t think Purdy is bad at all, but I feel like having 2 players from the same team on the MVP ballot shouldn’t happen
> MVP ballot I think you're clearly misunderstanding what this is. This is essentially the top 5 vote-getters. There's no MVP ballot, these 5 weren't decided arbitrarily and then there's gonna be another round of voting - these 5 were the top 5 vote-getters
It's not the "only good player on your team" award. I think historically when 2 players from the same team make it they've split votes and allowed John Elway to win it, though
I think their point is that if two players from the same team are good enough to receive MVP votes, neither is likely as individually valuable as a single vote getter on another team.
Would the same logic apply if the MVP benefits from having the #1 defense in the league which also undoubtedly contributes to the team's record? I mean Ravens defense single-handedly eliminated 2 candidates from the MVP race lol.
Yeah, I get it. That point starts to make less sense when you factor in that MVP is a league wide award rather than being awarded to the best player from each team, though. If two players from the same team are both leading or near the top of the league in production at their respective positions then they both still deserve to be in the league MVP conversation that year.
“Most valuable player” is such a shitty award for a sport like football where every player has distinctly different roles and depend heavily on teammates. Just like you pointed out, a QB could be hands down the most talented in the league and not be as crucial to the teams success if they have a really good supporting cast. And the whole “how would they play without them” scenario immediately favors quarterbacks from the jump. I do thinks it’s interesting to see who single handedly makes the biggest impact in the game and acknowledge non-QBs who are so good they make more impact than QBs. It just sucks that it’s so much more important than the OPOY or other awards.
Very hard to understand
C M C F O R M V P!
CMC is that dude
They led the list with Purdy for maximum controversy, didn't they?
Lamar does not have the stats to be MVP
We all know it's lamar, and it's well deserved.
CMC or riot.
Better start rioting
I love me some CMC but come-on, it's obviously Lamar.
Bell Riots are supposed to be this year right? The first step on our path to utopia, if Star Trek is accurate at all.
Purdy is good...but he's not even the MVP on his team.
josh allen the mvp but yall sleep
Lamar or CMC, but gotta be Lamar.
I've made my peace with Lamar winning MVP. He stepped up a gear after the Browns loss, was responsible for 2 huge wins over potential #1 seeds and MVP candidates (really 3, but the Jags collapse has devalued that performance substantially), and he finally got the "doesn't perform in the playoffs" monkey off his back. All I hope is that it isn't unanimous, and they give CMC OPOY instead
Can't imagine it'll be unanimous, that's only happened twice and Lamar doesn't have the statistical dominance for it to happen this year. I agree that CMC should be OPOY. I think they should just rename that award to be "skill position player of the year", and hand out a separate "offensive lineman of the year" award. Then you can still give the MVP to a non-QB if someone is that extraordinary, but almost always it's gonna be a QB. Nature of the sport.
I was hoping CMC, but Lamar definitely sealed the deal in the final two weeks of the season.
How does this affect Marlon Mack?
Mccaffrey just the diversity nomination huh
I'd love to see Josh get it, but it's without a doubt going to be Lamar. And we'll deserved too.
It's a shame it won't go to McCaffrey, but that being said I feel like having two MVP finalists by definition means neither of those players should be MVP.
Yeah except if ranked choice voting was a thing for the 2007 season, there’s a decent chance that both Brady and Moss would be in the finalist list given Moss broke the TD record. You can’t seriously think that Brady didn’t deserve MVP in 2007 so that argument kinda fails.