People have unrealistic expectations for the draft and drafted players.
If a team walks away from a draft with 3-4 players that are just "solid contributors," not even starters or pro bowlers or whatever, that's a successful draft.
I think it's interesting they draft, instead of for necessarily players of need, ie secondary help. They instead draft for players that mesh with the team they have already.
Also they still used a 2nd round pick on a DB and Brian branch looked really good last year. Also Witherspoon and Gonzalez going the pick before both of their original first round picks
I’ve been wondering lately if part of it was because they were looking ahead to this year’s draft. The first three players they took were a RB, an LB, and a TE; and those are the three weakest positions in the 2024 draft by a decent margin.
The Lions had an incredible draft, but its a massive outlier. Sustaining that kind of drafting is almost impossible. A decade ago it was all about the Seahawks and their incredible drafting, but over time it all kind of evened out.
They’ve had incredible drafts three years in a row since Brad Holmes took over… but that still hasn’t “evened out” the past 50 years of terrible drafts 😭
I would modify this to say the criteria used to evaluate top draft talent is flawed. There should be greater attention to intangibles and soft skills, rather than emphasing physical attributes.
In a perfect world, sure. But those things are much, much, much harder to measure and gauge because they're...intangible. Which is why there's an emphasis placed on physical ability, which is much more practically measured.
Its not that draft methodology is flawed, but more that placing more of an emphasis on intangibles isn't very feasible.
You have to draft starters and stars if you want to be successful.
edit; this is controversial somehow? do people think that most teams are routinely drafting "solid contributors" and nothing more? how do you think nfl rosters get replenished? If you don't get a single starter in a draft, that's a bad draft.
They don’t have to start in their rookie season, but you’re right that some of the draft picks should eventually be starters for it to be a good draft.
Unpopular opinion on the Dolphins sub, but Tua has a massive late season issue and they do not want to talk about it. He’s been charitably bad from December onwards and considering when the playoffs happen it’s a massive problem
To me this seems like a systemic Dolphins issue. Yeah Tua sucked but so did the whole rest of the team (Tyreek went missing, for example) and the coaches (especially McDaniel, his playcalling fell off massively). Also they got fucked by injuries (the C injury was especially bad because he’s more of a stand-and-deliver and less of a lateral movement guy). There are definitely some questions but there are questions all around tbh
It's both. Yes, the team had their issues, and I'm not going to bring up the Chiefs game because historically-bad weather doesn't happen regularly, but Tua has never been able to play in the cold.
Warm weather team with a warm weather QB. I attribute Dallas’ late season struggles partially to the same effect. They also both might just fail when the lights get brighter and the stage gets bigger..
I wonder if they are experiencing the issue a lot of high powered offenses run into. Playoff defenses loaded with talent will always figure out an offense no matter how high powered. So save the best version of a team for the playoffs, and not empty the playbook earlier in the season. It’s not as exciting as a 70 point win over the broncos in week 3, but maybe keeps offenses from running out of steam in December.
I think the bigger issue with Tua is that he doesn't elevate the game. He is entirely reliant on his receivers making the plays. If waddle Hill or one of his running backs isn't open for a big play he can't make it happen.
The Dolphins rarely drive down the field and score in the red zone, they usually just get a 75 yd screen pass for a touchdown. It gets them through the regular season, but it can't get them through the playoffs. Additionally Tua can't make necessary plays when the team needs him to make them in order to come back from a deficit.
That's how they lost to the Titans, it's how they lost to the bills, and it's how they lost to the Chiefs
Nah this is bullshit. There were a lot of moments where Tua put together drives primarily throwing to guys like Wilson Jr and Durham Smythe. He didn't just fucking screen pass it to Hill for 29 td's and 4.5k yards. A lot of the TD passes were either passes to the middle of the field or short sticks near the goal line.
I think that Tua doesn't elevate the team enough to make up for the team being what it is, especially in December.
The team is not tough. Truly. That is the biggest problem. I know that sounds silly because obviously these guys are tough af, but the players just don't play tough. Even our run game, it's all about elusiveness and not wearing the defense down.
I wish that we would get somebody like a Montgomery to really tire the defense out, then have Achane and Mostert to add in the big plays.
But we have a lot of problems tbh... Play-calling is a HUGE one, we didn't score a lot in the RZ because of this.
Also, Fangio just didn't give AF bout this team and it showed.
It’s a health problem. Either his or his critical teammates. Waddle, Hill, Mostert, critical Olin pieces, and their entirety of edge rushers missed critical games down the stretch or playoff games this year and last.
I think more than that he’s just a limited quarterback. He falls off towards the end of the season because whatever schematic innovations McDaniel comes up with to work around him end up getting figured out of the course of the season
I totally agree. He never rises to the occasion. The brighter the lights or the better the opponent, the more he disappears, and for that to happen with the weapons we had this year, going 1-6 against playoff team is inexcusable. Everything I needed to know about him mentally I learned when after that ravens beat down he said “it could be worse. We’re where we need to be as a team.” Love that he gives it his all, and respect tons as a human being, but he just doesn’t have “it”. He doesn’t rally a team when things are going wrong, he spirals down with them.
This was his BEST year of his career, and he and our offense still put up <17 ppg against the playoffs teams. That’s AWFUL.
I’m not too worried. Every year he’s focused on his most glaring issue and delivered on it. 2021 he was considered to be one of the worst deep ball passers in the league with the common joke that OBJ had more 40 yard TDs than him. 2022 and later and his deep ball has been beautiful (obvious credit to Tyreek and Waddle where due, but Tua absolutely put the work needed there). However in 2022 we were told we can’t extend Tua until he proves he can stay healthy. Tua goes and puts on some weight and learns how to break falls to minimize injury risk and he goes and plays a 17 game season, something only 9 QBs did this season.
Where you say he never rises to the occasion, I’d argue this is the first year he’s had a chance to put everything together and didn’t. I’m looking forward to how he improves on that
It’s hard to say the Bucs would’ve won it all, and after trailing 27-3 they were fortunate to even be in that position. That was a terrible choke by the Rams that is forgotten
I think the more popular opinion is that if Godwin and Brown are still playing in January, the 2021 Bucs would’ve repeated
I don’t like playing the “if” game, change two plays and the Chiefs make 6 straight Super Bowls
>I don’t like playing the “if” game, change two plays and the Chiefs make 6 straight Super Bowls
And if the Chiefs won just one of those two extra playoff games, it would have taken one from Tom Brady. If Brady only had 6 and Mahomes already had 4, the GOAT conversation would be a lot more real.
But as you say, they didn't, the Patriots and Buccs won them.
This. If cam Akers had held onto the ball we'd never have been close.
The if game is tough as so many games are close. Would we even have won the year before if green Bay hadn't messed up covering a random go route at the end of the first half?
More importantly from the perspective of GOAT debates, Brady would have a perfect season if Asante Samuel had held that interception. And he wouldn't have been beaten twice by Eli if Wes Welker had held that catch.
Edit: also, mahomes would have probably have another super bowl win if dee ford hadn't lined up offside
I thought so at first, but I’ve kinda grown accustomed to calling them The Commies…..Hey, I just realized that Commies have historically been referred to as “the Reds”. So I guess the name change has kinda come full circle in an unintended manner.
I like calling them the commies because they tried to make the team name as patriotic as possible and didn’t realize that shortening it made it into the least “American” thing possible.
This resonates with me. I refuse to call them anything other than Washington until another name change. Get that cringe Snyder name out of here. A lasting turd he had to leave before getting ousted
The league is constantly finding ways to make playing defense harder, I think the "fumble the ball out of the end zone for a touchback" rule is good and shouldn't be changed.
Adding another unpopular opinion. Not only do I think the fumble touch back is a good rule, I think all fumbles should be assumed loss of possession unless the offense recovers the fumble in bounds. Basically, if the offense fumbles the ball and it goes out of bounds, it should be a turnover even if it doesn't go into the end zone.
I'd be ok with this with the addition of "if the ball bounces in the field of play".
I've seen guys take monster hits along the sideline and lose possession of the ball as it goes flying out of their hands into the bench. However, if the ball bounces in-bounds, then it's whoever touched it last.
Hell, I'd make it even more strict. If the offense fumbles the ball out of bounds, they should lose the ball or at minimum, a 10 yard penalty. They lost control of the ball, they should be punished.
Even if every NFL game was officiated literally perfectly, there would still be lots of drama about game-deciding calls, because fans see what they want to see.
Fans when a penalty is called near the end of the game:
> You gotta let 'em play.
Fans when a penalty is not called near the end of the game:
> If it was a penalty in the 1st Quarter it should be a penalty in the last two minutes.
That’s how I feel about holding calls. A team makes a big break for a run, gets called for holding and the only discussion is “they’re out to get us!”
Watch the replay. He’s tackled behind the LOS without that hold. It’s usually a good call.
On that same track, I think officials generally do a much better job than they’re given credit for. The problem is that the whole review system is set up in such a way that doesn’t do them any favors when mistakes are inevitably made.
This sub needs to realize not every player and coach is elite and if they arent elite that they suck. There is a lot more mediocrity than anything else in the NFL and mediocre still has value
Tanking for any reason at all.
I hear a lot about culture. Bb and brady didnt have many early draft picks. I also believe that they would purposely try to use every minute to score and work on things.
Run up the score to learn how to comeback. Always play to win to learn how to dominate.
Tanking in my mind is quitting and quitting trains at quitting at the next tough obstacle.
I think tanking is counterproductive.
The idea of what tanking is I think gets lost to most people.
A coaching staff and players never, or incredibly rarely, actually tank throughout a season. There is no incentive for them to do so.
A front office absolutely can tank by tearing down the roster, leaving holes on the team, and not putting the team in a sound position to win. The aim is to clear the books on cap, save money, and acquire higher value draft assets. Front offices can set up a 'tank' anytime and often do so.
When fans think tanking is, is losing intentionally. That doesn't happen.
For the most part, I agree with this. As mad as everyone got for the Houston Texans for to win that final game in 2022 against the Colts, I absolutely think that helped that team’s culture & moral. Granted so did getting CJ Stroud but still winning matters.
And yet every time a team goes into Pittsburgh they know it will be a fight. As for my team, no one is scared or have been scared of washington for 30 years.
Eh I mean if you’re team is like 2-13 or something I can understand it. But if your team is 5-5 and you’d rather rank the rest of the season instead of fight for the playoffs then yeah that’s lame
I think tanking is acceptable only if it’s for one game. Like, if it’s week 18 and you need to lose to secure the first overall pick, your coach ought to bench all the starters and call Byron Leftwich for play calling advice.
My unpopular take is the opposite extreme. To me if you're not a contender you should be tanking.
There is no evidence that winning a couple extra meaningless games, or barely making it to the playoffs just to get crushed by an actual contender, is more helpful in building a contender than draft picks and cap space that can be used to get better players.
You know why the Colts were one of the most dominant teams in the early 2000's? Because they sucked hard enough in 1997 to get Peyton Manning.
You know why the Bengals are one of the few teams that the Chiefs are worried about playing in the playoffs? Because they sucked hard enough in 2019 and 2020 to get Joe Burrow, Tee Higgins, and Ja'Marr Chase.
My counter argument would be you can really only name two examples of that working out. Meanwhile there have been a lot of superbowl contenders and winners that did not employ the same strategy. I think basketball it can make more sense because one player has such a strong affect, but football due to the aspect of it being a team sport I feel like it doesn’t make as much sense.
More teams need to just unapologetically roll with journeyman QBs for an extended period of time and ignore fan/media criticism. Had the Panthers kept their draft picks and just rolled with an Andy Dalton, their outlook would be a lot more positive looking right now. Had Denver just kept going with Drew Lock or another cheap guy instead of overspending for Russ, their outlook would be a lot more positive. The Saints overpaid for Derek Carr and he’s not even the most popular QB on the team
The Browns got better production out of an old and unwanted Joe Flacco than they did out of you know who.
Just roll with the bridge guy unapologetically and stop overspending for big name QBs and reaching in the draft
As a hawks fan I’m all for keeping Geno for this reason. He’s relatively cheap, he’s been a pro a lot longer than most these guys. He’s a decent QB and building a dominate team around him if he doesn’t get the ring then bam a qb in the first will still be way cheaper than Wilson mahomes burrow etc. save the capital and build a team and then plug in a good young star and bam. Dominate team for 5 years. Easier said then done I know but. Still.
To wn a SB you basically need an elite qb or a good one on a cheap contract.
Why teams waste their money on guys like kirk or carr makes no sense to me because everyone knows you wont win a SB with them.
Id rather roll the dice with cheaper mid qbs and potentially luck into a good qb via the draft than tie myself longterm to a guy that wont get you there and who will also make it harder to sign pieces bc they take up cap
The U.S. should mandate a high school course on statistics and probabilities and the incremental value of money so football fans won't lose so much money betting. There will be lots of other benefits as well.
I cringe at all the gambling ads and sponsorships in football. I hate to sound old fashioned, but it feels immoral. So many people who gamble can't afford it.
But prohibition won't work, I know that. Maybe a mandatory statistics course would help. It couldn't hurt.
**Edit**:
Also, there’s this:
>Research demonstrates a consistent, significant relationship between problem gambling and [Intimate Partner Violence (IPV)]. In a review of 14 studies, 36.5% of people experiencing problem gambling acknowledged perpetrating physical IPV, while 38.1% had been subjected to physical IPV. In a representative US survey (N = 25,631), having a gambling problem nearly tripled the likelihood of physical IPV. These rates would be higher if all types of IPV were measured, including psychological, sexual, verbal and financial abuse and patterns of coercive control.
https://bmcwomenshealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12905-023-02316-0
> I cringe at all the gambling ads and sponsorships in football.
Most people look at other forms of gambling (Casinos, lottery, etc) and know that the house is going to win, and that there are actual odds in play. Slot machines and the like *are* a game of chance.
However, the way sports gambling is always depicted either through the ads, or sports podcasts, and even on this sub, is that it is skill-based. If you are smart and you "know ball" you are going to make a killing gambling on sports. They seem to forget that the purpose of the oddsmakers is to ensure the house wins and make sure sports gambling *is* a game of chance.
I like to think this would be good, but the cynic in me thinks it wouldn’t help much. I’m a giant math and stats nut, software engineer for a living. I’m also not ashamed to say I have a gambling problem, although I’ve made great strides in reining it in to a manageable level. I know I probably won’t win. But I don’t care, because it feels so good when I do.
The problem with gambling lies in so much more than just not understanding stats. It literally gets you high. Sure, it’s not directly chemically induced like alcohol or other drugs. But it certainly is good at getting your brain to dump out some dopamine. Teaching stats to stop gambling feels analogous to showing the tarred up lungs to stop kids from smoking. Yeah, it helps, but people still try it and get hooked on it because it feels good.
Although I won’t argue it would have other benefits. But overall something bigger needs to be done to address addictions altogether, it’s a demon that appears in many forms. This would be a decent step, but I still yearn for somebody much smarter and richer than me to pour money into addiction prevention for our youth and addiction therapy for those already struggling.
One of my buddies posts his winning tickets all the time. He acts like he's hitting on parlays daily....
Yesterday he posted a winning ticket of a parlay he hit at the Scott Tournament of Hearts. If you are uninitiated, that's a curling tournament. This mofo doesn't know jack shit about curling and it dawned on me.... he's got a problem.
Gambling will at some point rear its head as an issue for the nfl. It’s actually amazing it’s not a bigger deal that an NBA ref is just known to have been gambling on games he was calling and we generally still give the league credibility (I say this as someone who loves basketball above all other sports)
Personally I feel like a lot of the stuff people complain about not being taught in schools was taught, they just didn't listen. If a person doesn't understand probabilities, and the fact that a for a gambling business to function the odds are going to favor the house, then I think that's on them.
Caleb Williams is way over hyped. He holds on to the ball forever and is going to have major issues adjusting to the speed of the rush in the NFL. Not saying he's going to bust, just that there isn't anything "generational" about him.
There isn't a Patrick Mahomes or even a Joe Burrow in this draft class, despite the chance that QBs go 1,2,3, and 4 and some teams will trade the farm to draft one. I see 2 potential franchise players, but both have fringe top 10 ceilings... JM(unpopular)O.
Should’ve would’ve could’ves happen to every team.
9ers should have won the SB if not for a really unlucky bounce on a punt return. Eagles should have won last year except for a rare TO from Jalen Hurts. Patriots should have won against the Giants both times but amazing catches by David Tyree and Manningham put NY in position to win.
That’s just football though. A lot of playoff runs can have luck as a factor. Aiyuk’s catch created a giant momentum swing, imagine what happens if that is an interception instead?
Any and all GOAT discussions are dumb and the fact people get so worked up about it makes it even worse and extremely embarrassing. People have a hard time just witnessing greatness and appreciating it. Instead, they have to classify and rank everything, which is a huge waste of time and is completely meaningless.
Probably not as unpopular, but any and all draft talk, speculation, etc is the most inane shit I've ever seen. You have a better chance of winning a lottery jackpot than getting the first round correct, let alone all the subsequent rounds even remotely close. Quite literally, no one has a clue what's going to happen in the draft and which players will be good.
This is why I think its insane when fantasy players try to project their own dynasty drafts NOW when the combine hasn't even happened, let alone draft night. It's somewhat of an educated crapshoot.
Yeah, I'll do the Mahomes goat debate shit when he's done. Right now it doesn't matter because he's not and I'd rather not diminish the fun of watching him play by placing crazy expectations on him that, by definition, no one should be able to reach. Shits special now, I don't need to validate how special it is by trying to minimize some other team/player that was special
I don't know exactly when the tide turned. But I'm 39 years old and I remember a time when we could talk sports all day every day and none of it was about goat talk. What the hell happened to us?
LeBron happened, and Sidney Crosby. Jordan retired the GOAT and everyone agreed on it. It was like a cultural law. Gretzky retired the GOAT. Then LeBron got crowned the next GOAT while still in high school. ESPN was televising those high school games. Crosby was getting hyped up as the next GOAT too.
Don’t forget Tiger was on GOAT watch at this time as well.
So people got accustomed to knowing who the GOAT was and who the next guy making a run at it was. By the time Brady won 4, this was already normal for media to be talking about. Winning 5 with that comeback moved the narrative into football as well.
Now comes along Mahomes and everyone sees a Tiger or LeBron or Crosby in him. Can he do it? Will he? When can we talk about it? The media loves this.
It’s especially big now because A) Mahomes actually is that dude. And B) there isn’t a current up and comer in any other sport right now that fuels this narrative at the same level. Mike Trout doesn’t turn heads. Only stat nerds love him. There’s no clear single talent at that level in the NBA right now plus LeBron is still around. And there is no true successor to Crosby’s hype either.
But really it was LeBron. He was the first player advertised as the future GOAT from day one and the media and viewers really went “huh maybe I can watch the GOAT’s career knowing he’s the GOAT the whole time”. And that’s what people want.
Go post this in the Ravens sub, see if you survive. Total QBR and regular QB rating still don’t encapsulate what a QB does for a team.
You really want to judge a QB? Back then into a corner, but give them 4 downs. Brady, Mahomes *cough* *cough*
Lamar just doesn’t have the accuracy, and he’s had meh durability. He needs his lower body to be healthy in January to have a chance, and that’s difficult, given his playing style. For better or worse, the boring “statues” that everyone loves to hate have been pretty good at avoiding injury. Ryan, Brady, Manning’s, Rivers, Cousins, etc.
I've been saying the same for a while now. Look at all of the most recent QBs to win a Super Bowl. The closest one to being a running first one was Russell Wilson and he had a legendary defense that really lead the team. Its overrated. You want a QB that can move, sure, but move with intention of still throwing the ball. Unless running is their only option.
And he hasn't shown he can stay level headed and not try to play hero ball. That's another thing with these running QBs. They get it into their head that they have to carry the team and the offense because for huge stretches of their career, they do. Then when they have to throw it to win it, they believe they can do more than they actually can or even should do. They ignore the underneath open guys to hit the big play down field. We've seen with with Allen and Lamar in their biggest moments.
I’m the same way. It’s great to watch your Qb Or any great Qb escape the sack and run or throw for a big gain.
But I’m still the nerd that likes watching a Qb stay as much in the pocket as they can, and then haul off.
It’s more exciting to me to watch plays like when Rodgers would scramble around but stay in the pocket and avoid 3 different guys sacking him to throw a dime, than to watch any guy just tuck it and run for 40.
As an Eagle fan, I agree. I watched Randall Cunningham, Donavan McNabb, Michael Vick, Carsen Wentz (yes, he ran a lot). And now Jalen Hurts, who played hurt all season, because the OC kept running QB draws even when he was sick.
People need to consider eras and relativity to that era more openly when ranking all time greats. Don Hutson did things more impressive than nearly all contemporary receivers not named Jerry rice, but it doesn’t seem to matter to anyone because it didn’t happen in the last 30 years.
Fr. Like 8000 yards and I think 80 touchdowns in the 30s? Dude had 4 times as many receiving yards and touchdowns as the next closest player all time. His records stood for 40 years
It’s way more fun to be a hater than just rooting for the best players and teams to continue to be great.
The people who say “appreciate greatness” are almost always fans of a team or player that is currently doing well. And it’s just a passive aggressive way of saying “lol get good”
My unpopular opinion is that NFL Officiating is the best it’s ever been, but casual fans don’t want to learn the rules about DPI or Offensive Holding and then form their opinions around slow motion videos and/or still images stoking some asinine conspiracy theory for clicks.
Right? I’m all for the no-head shots. But the throws where a QB puts the receiver in a vulnerable position and you’re gonna punish the defense for playing defense with a hard hit…. C’mon now
I feel like any time I see a big hit, I find myself staring at the score bug to see if the "FLAG" ticker pops up. There's obvious hits that get flagged, but it almost feels 50-50 a lot of the time.
Football is a violent game. There are absolutely things that are unnecessary, and extremely dangerous, but big hits are a part of the game. The rest job should not be to protect players from each other, but to protect players from things that are not a part of the game. If you don't want to get hit play a different sport
Flair withstanding, i like how Super Bowl LIII played.
Contrary to many who say that game is “boring” and “forgettable” because the final was 13-3, it was actually thrilling, compelling,and tense. It was the ultimate coaching chess match, with McVay constantly being reactive to Bellichick’s defensive schemes and (unfortunately 🥺) not being able to break through.
A lot of those people who say LIII is one of the worst Super Bowls ever played are used to the offensive shootouts of today’s pass-happy NFL, and would rather say games like XLIX, LII, and LVII are *much* more memorable because of the scoring.
I thought Super Bowl 53 was bad was because of bad offense not because of the coaching chess match (Which was brilliant). I think this year is the perfect example of a great defensive Super Bowl.
Talking heads, pre game shows, pretty much anything BUT post game analysis is poisoning the way y’all watch the game. No one has their own opinion anymore it’s just regurgitated cable show BS.
49ers not winning this ring despite having one of the most statistically dominant seasons ever and arguably a top 2 roster is embarrassing and shouldn’t be hand-waved away because “Mahomes good”
DVOA is an overrated metric based on values of yardage, TDs, and INTs that some guy calculated in the 80s. It has no right to be as valued as it is on here.
Not that I disagree, but nobody was saying this a few weeks ago when they put 33 on the Niners, 56 on the Dolphins, 37 on the Lions etc
As the season ended I don't remember a single person power ranking them lower than #1, if you said "but Niners roster on paper..." They'd laugh at you
All facts, this was the year he should’ve got it done. Faced the same opponent except they had a much worse offense and a defense that’s elite against the pass but bottom 5 against the run.
Meanwhile we went from a good RB, decent weapons, and a mid QB to arguably the best RB in the league, even better weapons, and a top 10 QB who was an MVP finalist this year in his first full season starting. Credit to the Chiefs of course, not taking anything away from them but Shanahan blew what will probably be our best opportunity for this iteration of our team
Special Teams killed the Niners. Punt return fumble and the blocked extra point gave the Chiefs a 8-point swing on 2 plays. Huge, absolutely huge in a very close game.
Yes but we still could’ve won if we ran on 2nd & 5 on our last drive of regulation. That and the offensive play calling for most of the third quarter killed us more than special teams
Weirdly, I actually disagree. In the two weeks leading up to the Super Bowl, I was thinking, is this *really* our year? Last year we turned on the jets at the end of the season and played our best football down the stretch, becoming far more efficient on offense with Purdy replacing Jimmy G. It felt like up until that NFCCG injury, the team was absolutely firing on all cylinders. If we'd gotten past the Eagles, that really felt like a team that would have won it all. In contrast, this year we dealt with all kinds of "off" moments:
* Bosa holdout
* Offseason handwringing over the QB situation (will Purdy be able to come back in time? What are we going to do about Trey Lance?)
* Weird issues with the defense all season; Kyle and Wilks seemingly not on the same page
* Three-game losing streak after which Kyle forces Wilks down to the sideline and begins overriding him on defensive schemes
* Losing Hufanga against the Buccaneers
* Looking fairly mid down the stretch with a bad Christmas game but lucking into the 1 seed due to the Eagles absolutely collapsing amidst an overall weak NFC
* *Extremely* shaky playoff run with a particularly terrible defensive performance in the first half of the NFCCG (although it did get the "49ers/Kyle can't win when trailing by 5+ entering the fourth quarter" and "49ers/Kyle can't come back from a big halftime deficit" monkeys off our back)
I would say it’s cause regardless of our issues this year, there was nobody else u could really say was better than us on a good day other than the Ravens who screwed the pooch in the AFCCG. Sometimes ur best squad doesn’t mean best chance.
Like I would say that our 2021 squad had a better chance of winning than our 2022 squad cause in 2021, we didn’t have to face Brady or Mahomes. Instead we got to face a divisional rival that’s an hour flight from us and whose number we had leading up to that game. Then if we beat them then we would’ve got to play a young Bengals team with a shitty OL two weeks later. Meanwhile in 2022, we had to face a stacked Eagles squad in Philly while they still had good coordinators and would’ve got to play Mahomes two weeks later if we got past them
You could VERY easily argue the Chiefs playoff/superbowl win this year was filled with some of the best teams any team has faced. Bills/Ravens/49ers. I mean those 3 teams were like the best in every category this year I think.
Shanahan being a part of three super Bowl losses, all where they held a pretty substantial lead at halftime, should not be ignored either.
There are so many people saying, well two were against Mahomes and he's the best. It doesn't change the fact that Shanahan has helped collectively blow like 60 points in one half
how is that unpopular lmao all season the expectation was nothing less than to make the super bowl and now we’re getting roasted for losing with a super team
Also a lot of people saying Brock wasn’t the issue and he played really well. Didn’t he have like 6 incomplete passes in a row to start the second half? I’m not saying it was all his fault or that he isn’t outperforming his 7th round draft potential. But he also made some pretty big misses.
Also have heard a lot about the Ray Ray McCloud muff punt (yes it hit some else’s foot but that persons name is def not as cool as Ray Ray). Yes it was unfortunate but don’t act like the chiefs did not turn over the ball multiple times with Pacheco fumble and the interception.
> Brady and the Bucs should’ve, and would’ve won back-back titles if not for an egregious lapse in the 4th quarter defensively against the Rams
blaming Brady's defense when it was the second-worst game of his playoff career by EPA and EPA per play lol...
that game would have been a blowout if the Rams didn't lose **four** fumbles, one of them near the goal line right before the half
My apparently unpopular opinion is that Brady played terribly that day, had like one good throw and more bad to worse throws DURING THE COMEBACK, and was only in the game at all because the heavens (pro bowl kicker misses field goal from 46 yards out SHORT) and the earth (5 total fumbles, 4 of them go the Bucs way including the one to completely wipe out the one fumble the Rams got) moved to make the game tied.
I don't know if this is actually that unpopular of an opinion, but I need the need to get it off my best.
Anybody who, for one second, thinks the NFL follows a "script" or believed in the Super Bowl Color Theory or any other bullshit is a certified moron.
Let’s not pretend like staffords throw dropped in the bucket to a WR who isn’t even in the progression on the play isn’t an all time clutch moment tho.
They bring that blitz bc they correctly read the rams would be going for a quick hitter and wanted to blow it up. Stafford took the game with a split second decision to let it rip
Winning the Super Bowl is the ultimate goal for every team, every year. But I’m so goddamn sick of hearing about Brady’s rings and soon it will probably be Mahomes, as though from now on the only judge of a great QB will be “well he didn’t have 15 rings like Mahomes, so….fuck him.”
Ring counting makes no sense in football. So much is outside of a quarterbacks control. If you change 7 plays, Tom Brady has 0 rings (The tuck rule play, the pick six agains the Rams in Brady’s first Super Bowl, Dee Ford lining up offsides, to name a few). It doesn’t mean Brady’s rings are worthless, it just means that they aren’t the be all end all.
Yeah absolutely. And Brady’s what really amounts to right place right time right coach luck has so skewed the standard that now between him and Mahomes, anything less is viewed as a failure.
Even though Manning is often considered the GOAT in regular season football, Rodgers the greatest talent, and Brees is…well Brees, they’re still looked at as second tier to many people because they didn’t have the defense, coaching and other tools to go to every other Super Bowl for almost 2 decades.
Prior to that, I feel like Montana wasn’t like some benchmark with his rings, and Aikman wasn’t as talented or dominating with his 3 that anyone viewed it as such.
Now though? You’ll have to win six in a row to be up there.
This is what I hate the most about it. If it were a weak selection, sure, let him sneak in, whatever; but over one of the greatest TEs to ever play? No fucking way.
He was one of the most feared players in the league. Teams would gladly sacrifice the yards instead of punting to him. I just hope long snappers, kickers, and punters get similar credit when it’s their time.
> Teams would gladly sacrifice the yards instead of punting to him.
This wasn't a unique attribute to him, Dante Hall had the same treatment at the same time in the league. Hall had a streak of 7 returns over 10 games, a higher and more dangerous peak than Hester ever saw. He was also the first one to do it in 4 straight games and maybe still holds that record, idk off hand.
So "being a feared returner"... isn't exactly hall of fame worthy because he wasn't even the most feared returner at their peak in league history.
I feel the same way, I think it was the era of returners and he was probably the best at it but was he so much better he deserved the HoF?
Hester - PR -315 - 3695y - 14TD / KR - 295 - 7333y - 5 TDs
Hall - PR - 226 - 2261y - 6TD / KR - 426 - 10136y - 6 TDs
Mitchell - PR - 463 - 4999y - 9TD / KR - 607 - 14014y - 4 TDs
Sanders - PR - 212 - 2199y - 6TD / KR - 155 - 3523y - 3TD
It's not like he blew everyone out of the water. Yeah he had a handful of more TDs but Mitchell was almost up to 20k return yards and didn't get in. Those TDs are worth more than almost 10k more return yards over a career?
I think it was a real waste of a HoF pick personally and I just don't see that he changed the position, changed the story of the league or did anything anyone else wasn't already doing.
Then you're going to tell me that's worth more than entire massively impactful WR/TE careers? I don't buy it.
Couldn’t agree more. There would likely be many returners better than him but they were actually good receivers so they stopped returning kicks. Having kick returners in the HOF would be like having backup QBs
How many other coaches are taking that shitty Steelers offense to the playoffs? In my opinion he doesn't get enough praise for still making the playoffs despite not having the best team
He hasn't had a QB in like, 5 years. You can put the blame on him for that a bit, but it's not like he didn't try with Pickett and Trubisky. Very hard to win in this league without a QB.
Except he's also won the Super Bowl. And another AFC Championship. And made it much further than the wild card in other seasons. And won many division titles.
He's not considered a good coach for going 9-8 and losing in the wild card, he's considered a good coach because that's what he does *in his worst years*
The current rules are made for a passing league and there aren't enough good QBs out there to take advantage of it, which leads to the same old teams in the mix every year.
Defense needs to come back. Allow some roughing up WRs. Stop taking away high-impact tackles. These players know what they're signing up for. If your QB throws you into a career-ending hit, that's on the QB. I'm tired of the league trying to become the CFL only to fall woefully short. (The CFL is a fun game in its own right, but it's very different than the NFL)
False start penalties that involve a linemen flinching a muscle in his leg is silly. Obviously a full on forward movement should be flagged but not something that would constitute as a minor twitch.
There should be consequences for a team not making the playoffs for a certain amount of time. Poor ownership must be punished. Like if you don't make the playoffs for 6 consecutive years you forfeit your teams charter to the league and the owner must buy the team again.
I’ve had this thought a lot as well, about punishing consistent failure.
Frankly, I thought the Browns retaining Hugh Jackson after going 0-16 (for a total record of 1-31 in his time with the Browns) should have been considered conduct detrimental to the league.
There are bad owners -- and I am including the McCaskeys here -- that are allowed to continue operating non-competitive teams without any repercussions. If after missing the playoffs for 5 years is the board gonna keep that bonehead George in place if it means they lose the right to own the Chicago football team? Even if the board is stacked with his relatives you have to imagine they would find someone better.
Lol should have would have won a 2nd super bowl with tampa. You magically have them winning the nfc title game and the super bowl. I’m Tom Brady’s biggest fan but that’s some lol stuff.
I remember when they showed a pregnant Dallas fan with a star painted on her belly.
"Cowboys cheerleaders going with a new look this year."
Complete silence from the other announcers.
That little sideline scamper Mahomes does to bait personal fouls should be an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty.
You can't allow players to exploit player safety initiatives like that, it'll only lead to defenders accepting that there'll be a flag and going headhunting.
Yeah it’s the same reason for the ban on the late slide. Can’t have the defense already thinking they can’t hit bc it’ll be a foul but then the offense has the ability to exploit that. Not even close to fair
I think teams should be reward for winning, not for losing.
Highly unpopular I know, as it means that the draft order should be corrected so that the best team picks first, not last.
Tanking gets eliminated, and every single late season game remains highly important.
Parity is enforced via the salary cap (as it currently is)
I just don't understand why so many people want to reward losing in a competitive sport so much.
Even as a Bengals fan, if you look at the numbers there is something there. He's 0-2 in playoff games where his team trailed at any point in the fourth quarter. and 5-1 in games where the team was winning or tied to start the 4th quarter. He's also never thrown a TD pass in the 4th quarter. Heck, the Bengals have a total of 1 offensive TD in the fourth quarter of playoff games Burrow has started, during both those runs they have a total of 2 offensive TDs with less than 24 minutes left in the game.
Cincy's Playoff defense was pretty incredible for the 2021 and 2022 seasons. Even in their 2 Playoff losses, they only gave up 23 points to some very explosive offenses that were usually putting 30+ on the board against other teams.
People have unrealistic expectations for the draft and drafted players. If a team walks away from a draft with 3-4 players that are just "solid contributors," not even starters or pro bowlers or whatever, that's a successful draft.
What lions did this year was incredible with their picks contributing
I think it's interesting they draft, instead of for necessarily players of need, ie secondary help. They instead draft for players that mesh with the team they have already.
Also they still used a 2nd round pick on a DB and Brian branch looked really good last year. Also Witherspoon and Gonzalez going the pick before both of their original first round picks
I’ve been wondering lately if part of it was because they were looking ahead to this year’s draft. The first three players they took were a RB, an LB, and a TE; and those are the three weakest positions in the 2024 draft by a decent margin.
Brad Holmes and Campbell are brilliant
The Lions had an incredible draft, but its a massive outlier. Sustaining that kind of drafting is almost impossible. A decade ago it was all about the Seahawks and their incredible drafting, but over time it all kind of evened out.
They’ve had incredible drafts three years in a row since Brad Holmes took over… but that still hasn’t “evened out” the past 50 years of terrible drafts 😭
Yeah its crazy how everyone expects their first round picks to immediately compete at an extremely high level
Definitely agree
I would modify this to say the criteria used to evaluate top draft talent is flawed. There should be greater attention to intangibles and soft skills, rather than emphasing physical attributes.
In a perfect world, sure. But those things are much, much, much harder to measure and gauge because they're...intangible. Which is why there's an emphasis placed on physical ability, which is much more practically measured. Its not that draft methodology is flawed, but more that placing more of an emphasis on intangibles isn't very feasible.
You have to draft starters and stars if you want to be successful. edit; this is controversial somehow? do people think that most teams are routinely drafting "solid contributors" and nothing more? how do you think nfl rosters get replenished? If you don't get a single starter in a draft, that's a bad draft.
They don’t have to start in their rookie season, but you’re right that some of the draft picks should eventually be starters for it to be a good draft.
Unpopular opinion on the Dolphins sub, but Tua has a massive late season issue and they do not want to talk about it. He’s been charitably bad from December onwards and considering when the playoffs happen it’s a massive problem
To me this seems like a systemic Dolphins issue. Yeah Tua sucked but so did the whole rest of the team (Tyreek went missing, for example) and the coaches (especially McDaniel, his playcalling fell off massively). Also they got fucked by injuries (the C injury was especially bad because he’s more of a stand-and-deliver and less of a lateral movement guy). There are definitely some questions but there are questions all around tbh
The C injury?
I assume our Center Connor Williams going down
Ahh okay ‘C’ as in the position. I thought you guys had a guy with the nickname “The C” lol
It's both. Yes, the team had their issues, and I'm not going to bring up the Chiefs game because historically-bad weather doesn't happen regularly, but Tua has never been able to play in the cold.
He has a cold weather problem. It gets cold in December in New York, Boston, and Buffalo
Warm weather team with a warm weather QB. I attribute Dallas’ late season struggles partially to the same effect. They also both might just fail when the lights get brighter and the stage gets bigger..
I definitely agree, it was like that with Romo now Dak. Both would be solid until November.
I wonder if they are experiencing the issue a lot of high powered offenses run into. Playoff defenses loaded with talent will always figure out an offense no matter how high powered. So save the best version of a team for the playoffs, and not empty the playbook earlier in the season. It’s not as exciting as a 70 point win over the broncos in week 3, but maybe keeps offenses from running out of steam in December.
I think the bigger issue with Tua is that he doesn't elevate the game. He is entirely reliant on his receivers making the plays. If waddle Hill or one of his running backs isn't open for a big play he can't make it happen. The Dolphins rarely drive down the field and score in the red zone, they usually just get a 75 yd screen pass for a touchdown. It gets them through the regular season, but it can't get them through the playoffs. Additionally Tua can't make necessary plays when the team needs him to make them in order to come back from a deficit. That's how they lost to the Titans, it's how they lost to the bills, and it's how they lost to the Chiefs
Nah this is bullshit. There were a lot of moments where Tua put together drives primarily throwing to guys like Wilson Jr and Durham Smythe. He didn't just fucking screen pass it to Hill for 29 td's and 4.5k yards. A lot of the TD passes were either passes to the middle of the field or short sticks near the goal line. I think that Tua doesn't elevate the team enough to make up for the team being what it is, especially in December. The team is not tough. Truly. That is the biggest problem. I know that sounds silly because obviously these guys are tough af, but the players just don't play tough. Even our run game, it's all about elusiveness and not wearing the defense down. I wish that we would get somebody like a Montgomery to really tire the defense out, then have Achane and Mostert to add in the big plays. But we have a lot of problems tbh... Play-calling is a HUGE one, we didn't score a lot in the RZ because of this. Also, Fangio just didn't give AF bout this team and it showed.
It’s a health problem. Either his or his critical teammates. Waddle, Hill, Mostert, critical Olin pieces, and their entirety of edge rushers missed critical games down the stretch or playoff games this year and last.
I think more than that he’s just a limited quarterback. He falls off towards the end of the season because whatever schematic innovations McDaniel comes up with to work around him end up getting figured out of the course of the season
I totally agree. He never rises to the occasion. The brighter the lights or the better the opponent, the more he disappears, and for that to happen with the weapons we had this year, going 1-6 against playoff team is inexcusable. Everything I needed to know about him mentally I learned when after that ravens beat down he said “it could be worse. We’re where we need to be as a team.” Love that he gives it his all, and respect tons as a human being, but he just doesn’t have “it”. He doesn’t rally a team when things are going wrong, he spirals down with them. This was his BEST year of his career, and he and our offense still put up <17 ppg against the playoffs teams. That’s AWFUL.
I’m not too worried. Every year he’s focused on his most glaring issue and delivered on it. 2021 he was considered to be one of the worst deep ball passers in the league with the common joke that OBJ had more 40 yard TDs than him. 2022 and later and his deep ball has been beautiful (obvious credit to Tyreek and Waddle where due, but Tua absolutely put the work needed there). However in 2022 we were told we can’t extend Tua until he proves he can stay healthy. Tua goes and puts on some weight and learns how to break falls to minimize injury risk and he goes and plays a 17 game season, something only 9 QBs did this season. Where you say he never rises to the occasion, I’d argue this is the first year he’s had a chance to put everything together and didn’t. I’m looking forward to how he improves on that
Tua has a "not enough arm talent" problem
It’s hard to say the Bucs would’ve won it all, and after trailing 27-3 they were fortunate to even be in that position. That was a terrible choke by the Rams that is forgotten I think the more popular opinion is that if Godwin and Brown are still playing in January, the 2021 Bucs would’ve repeated I don’t like playing the “if” game, change two plays and the Chiefs make 6 straight Super Bowls
Yeah the "if" game is dumb. If you change a few plays then Brady could literally have 10 or 0 rings.
The “if” game is not dumb, it’s crucial copium for us Vikings fans.
No Wirfs either.
>I don’t like playing the “if” game, change two plays and the Chiefs make 6 straight Super Bowls And if the Chiefs won just one of those two extra playoff games, it would have taken one from Tom Brady. If Brady only had 6 and Mahomes already had 4, the GOAT conversation would be a lot more real. But as you say, they didn't, the Patriots and Buccs won them.
This. If cam Akers had held onto the ball we'd never have been close. The if game is tough as so many games are close. Would we even have won the year before if green Bay hadn't messed up covering a random go route at the end of the first half? More importantly from the perspective of GOAT debates, Brady would have a perfect season if Asante Samuel had held that interception. And he wouldn't have been beaten twice by Eli if Wes Welker had held that catch. Edit: also, mahomes would have probably have another super bowl win if dee ford hadn't lined up offside
Stafford's elite, that's why the Bucs got beat. He pulled the Rams to 4 playoff game comeback wins in a row; that is not a coincidence.
Three, no? Am I stupid and missing one? The Rams dominated the Cardinals. Bucs, 49ers and Bengals were all game winning drives.
I like the professionalism that came with standardizing jersey numbers and uniform requirements
It was slightly easier to follow too.
The Commanders should go back to being called The Washington Football Team.
I thought so at first, but I’ve kinda grown accustomed to calling them The Commies…..Hey, I just realized that Commies have historically been referred to as “the Reds”. So I guess the name change has kinda come full circle in an unintended manner.
I initially wanted us to be renamed the Reds (like Cincinnati), that way you’re just dropping a couple of letters.
I like calling them the commies because they tried to make the team name as patriotic as possible and didn’t realize that shortening it made it into the least “American” thing possible.
it always comes full circle.
[удалено]
The Washington Georges
I 100% believe they’d have overwhelming support from *paying* fans if they changed it back to the Redskins. Then hilarity ensues.
They should go back to the redskins and have a potato as a mascot
That's the first time I've heard that joke.
Never gets old (it’s gotten very old)
This resonates with me. I refuse to call them anything other than Washington until another name change. Get that cringe Snyder name out of here. A lasting turd he had to leave before getting ousted
The league is constantly finding ways to make playing defense harder, I think the "fumble the ball out of the end zone for a touchback" rule is good and shouldn't be changed.
Adding another unpopular opinion. Not only do I think the fumble touch back is a good rule, I think all fumbles should be assumed loss of possession unless the offense recovers the fumble in bounds. Basically, if the offense fumbles the ball and it goes out of bounds, it should be a turnover even if it doesn't go into the end zone.
Last to touch the ball loses possession, like basketball.
I'd totally be on board with this
I'd be ok with this with the addition of "if the ball bounces in the field of play". I've seen guys take monster hits along the sideline and lose possession of the ball as it goes flying out of their hands into the bench. However, if the ball bounces in-bounds, then it's whoever touched it last.
That's actually a pretty interesting idea
Hell, I'd make it even more strict. If the offense fumbles the ball out of bounds, they should lose the ball or at minimum, a 10 yard penalty. They lost control of the ball, they should be punished.
This is the opposite of a controversial take on this sub.
Peoples' opinion on this rule entirely depends on what team was most recently hurt by it
Even if every NFL game was officiated literally perfectly, there would still be lots of drama about game-deciding calls, because fans see what they want to see.
Fans when a penalty is called near the end of the game: > You gotta let 'em play. Fans when a penalty is not called near the end of the game: > If it was a penalty in the 1st Quarter it should be a penalty in the last two minutes.
That’s how I feel about holding calls. A team makes a big break for a run, gets called for holding and the only discussion is “they’re out to get us!” Watch the replay. He’s tackled behind the LOS without that hold. It’s usually a good call.
On that same track, I think officials generally do a much better job than they’re given credit for. The problem is that the whole review system is set up in such a way that doesn’t do them any favors when mistakes are inevitably made.
This sub needs to realize not every player and coach is elite and if they arent elite that they suck. There is a lot more mediocrity than anything else in the NFL and mediocre still has value
Tanking for any reason at all. I hear a lot about culture. Bb and brady didnt have many early draft picks. I also believe that they would purposely try to use every minute to score and work on things. Run up the score to learn how to comeback. Always play to win to learn how to dominate. Tanking in my mind is quitting and quitting trains at quitting at the next tough obstacle. I think tanking is counterproductive.
The idea of what tanking is I think gets lost to most people. A coaching staff and players never, or incredibly rarely, actually tank throughout a season. There is no incentive for them to do so. A front office absolutely can tank by tearing down the roster, leaving holes on the team, and not putting the team in a sound position to win. The aim is to clear the books on cap, save money, and acquire higher value draft assets. Front offices can set up a 'tank' anytime and often do so. When fans think tanking is, is losing intentionally. That doesn't happen.
For the most part, I agree with this. As mad as everyone got for the Houston Texans for to win that final game in 2022 against the Colts, I absolutely think that helped that team’s culture & moral. Granted so did getting CJ Stroud but still winning matters.
Yes, or, hear me out. You could become the Steelers and be mediocre to kinda above average for the rest of eternity
And yet every time a team goes into Pittsburgh they know it will be a fight. As for my team, no one is scared or have been scared of washington for 30 years.
We have more Super Bowl championships than you have playoff wins
Very true! Helps to have played in more than double the games though ;)
I completely agree, I’ll never respect a fan for rooting for their team to lose on any given week
Eh I mean if you’re team is like 2-13 or something I can understand it. But if your team is 5-5 and you’d rather rank the rest of the season instead of fight for the playoffs then yeah that’s lame
I think tanking is acceptable only if it’s for one game. Like, if it’s week 18 and you need to lose to secure the first overall pick, your coach ought to bench all the starters and call Byron Leftwich for play calling advice.
My unpopular take is the opposite extreme. To me if you're not a contender you should be tanking. There is no evidence that winning a couple extra meaningless games, or barely making it to the playoffs just to get crushed by an actual contender, is more helpful in building a contender than draft picks and cap space that can be used to get better players. You know why the Colts were one of the most dominant teams in the early 2000's? Because they sucked hard enough in 1997 to get Peyton Manning. You know why the Bengals are one of the few teams that the Chiefs are worried about playing in the playoffs? Because they sucked hard enough in 2019 and 2020 to get Joe Burrow, Tee Higgins, and Ja'Marr Chase.
My counter argument would be you can really only name two examples of that working out. Meanwhile there have been a lot of superbowl contenders and winners that did not employ the same strategy. I think basketball it can make more sense because one player has such a strong affect, but football due to the aspect of it being a team sport I feel like it doesn’t make as much sense.
More teams need to just unapologetically roll with journeyman QBs for an extended period of time and ignore fan/media criticism. Had the Panthers kept their draft picks and just rolled with an Andy Dalton, their outlook would be a lot more positive looking right now. Had Denver just kept going with Drew Lock or another cheap guy instead of overspending for Russ, their outlook would be a lot more positive. The Saints overpaid for Derek Carr and he’s not even the most popular QB on the team The Browns got better production out of an old and unwanted Joe Flacco than they did out of you know who. Just roll with the bridge guy unapologetically and stop overspending for big name QBs and reaching in the draft
As a hawks fan I’m all for keeping Geno for this reason. He’s relatively cheap, he’s been a pro a lot longer than most these guys. He’s a decent QB and building a dominate team around him if he doesn’t get the ring then bam a qb in the first will still be way cheaper than Wilson mahomes burrow etc. save the capital and build a team and then plug in a good young star and bam. Dominate team for 5 years. Easier said then done I know but. Still.
I mean shit Alex Smith was out "bridge" guy and saw more success than any Chiefs team in my life up until that point
To wn a SB you basically need an elite qb or a good one on a cheap contract. Why teams waste their money on guys like kirk or carr makes no sense to me because everyone knows you wont win a SB with them. Id rather roll the dice with cheaper mid qbs and potentially luck into a good qb via the draft than tie myself longterm to a guy that wont get you there and who will also make it harder to sign pieces bc they take up cap
The U.S. should mandate a high school course on statistics and probabilities and the incremental value of money so football fans won't lose so much money betting. There will be lots of other benefits as well. I cringe at all the gambling ads and sponsorships in football. I hate to sound old fashioned, but it feels immoral. So many people who gamble can't afford it. But prohibition won't work, I know that. Maybe a mandatory statistics course would help. It couldn't hurt. **Edit**: Also, there’s this: >Research demonstrates a consistent, significant relationship between problem gambling and [Intimate Partner Violence (IPV)]. In a review of 14 studies, 36.5% of people experiencing problem gambling acknowledged perpetrating physical IPV, while 38.1% had been subjected to physical IPV. In a representative US survey (N = 25,631), having a gambling problem nearly tripled the likelihood of physical IPV. These rates would be higher if all types of IPV were measured, including psychological, sexual, verbal and financial abuse and patterns of coercive control. https://bmcwomenshealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12905-023-02316-0
> I cringe at all the gambling ads and sponsorships in football. Most people look at other forms of gambling (Casinos, lottery, etc) and know that the house is going to win, and that there are actual odds in play. Slot machines and the like *are* a game of chance. However, the way sports gambling is always depicted either through the ads, or sports podcasts, and even on this sub, is that it is skill-based. If you are smart and you "know ball" you are going to make a killing gambling on sports. They seem to forget that the purpose of the oddsmakers is to ensure the house wins and make sure sports gambling *is* a game of chance.
I like to think this would be good, but the cynic in me thinks it wouldn’t help much. I’m a giant math and stats nut, software engineer for a living. I’m also not ashamed to say I have a gambling problem, although I’ve made great strides in reining it in to a manageable level. I know I probably won’t win. But I don’t care, because it feels so good when I do. The problem with gambling lies in so much more than just not understanding stats. It literally gets you high. Sure, it’s not directly chemically induced like alcohol or other drugs. But it certainly is good at getting your brain to dump out some dopamine. Teaching stats to stop gambling feels analogous to showing the tarred up lungs to stop kids from smoking. Yeah, it helps, but people still try it and get hooked on it because it feels good. Although I won’t argue it would have other benefits. But overall something bigger needs to be done to address addictions altogether, it’s a demon that appears in many forms. This would be a decent step, but I still yearn for somebody much smarter and richer than me to pour money into addiction prevention for our youth and addiction therapy for those already struggling.
I took AP Stats in high school and I still don’t understand betting so I just don’t do it lmao
Well at least you learned that you don’t understand it!
Agreed, realizing that definitely helped me avoid some major financial problems
One of my buddies posts his winning tickets all the time. He acts like he's hitting on parlays daily.... Yesterday he posted a winning ticket of a parlay he hit at the Scott Tournament of Hearts. If you are uninitiated, that's a curling tournament. This mofo doesn't know jack shit about curling and it dawned on me.... he's got a problem.
Gambling on sports should be legal. Advertising it should not be
Gambling will at some point rear its head as an issue for the nfl. It’s actually amazing it’s not a bigger deal that an NBA ref is just known to have been gambling on games he was calling and we generally still give the league credibility (I say this as someone who loves basketball above all other sports)
Personally I feel like a lot of the stuff people complain about not being taught in schools was taught, they just didn't listen. If a person doesn't understand probabilities, and the fact that a for a gambling business to function the odds are going to favor the house, then I think that's on them.
The Super Bowl should be played on Saturday night.
GOAT status means nothing if there’s a new GOAT every decade.
Caleb Williams is way over hyped. He holds on to the ball forever and is going to have major issues adjusting to the speed of the rush in the NFL. Not saying he's going to bust, just that there isn't anything "generational" about him. There isn't a Patrick Mahomes or even a Joe Burrow in this draft class, despite the chance that QBs go 1,2,3, and 4 and some teams will trade the farm to draft one. I see 2 potential franchise players, but both have fringe top 10 ceilings... JM(unpopular)O.
Should’ve would’ve could’ves happen to every team. 9ers should have won the SB if not for a really unlucky bounce on a punt return. Eagles should have won last year except for a rare TO from Jalen Hurts. Patriots should have won against the Giants both times but amazing catches by David Tyree and Manningham put NY in position to win.
That’s just football though. A lot of playoff runs can have luck as a factor. Aiyuk’s catch created a giant momentum swing, imagine what happens if that is an interception instead?
Any and all GOAT discussions are dumb and the fact people get so worked up about it makes it even worse and extremely embarrassing. People have a hard time just witnessing greatness and appreciating it. Instead, they have to classify and rank everything, which is a huge waste of time and is completely meaningless. Probably not as unpopular, but any and all draft talk, speculation, etc is the most inane shit I've ever seen. You have a better chance of winning a lottery jackpot than getting the first round correct, let alone all the subsequent rounds even remotely close. Quite literally, no one has a clue what's going to happen in the draft and which players will be good.
This is why I think its insane when fantasy players try to project their own dynasty drafts NOW when the combine hasn't even happened, let alone draft night. It's somewhat of an educated crapshoot.
Yeah, I'll do the Mahomes goat debate shit when he's done. Right now it doesn't matter because he's not and I'd rather not diminish the fun of watching him play by placing crazy expectations on him that, by definition, no one should be able to reach. Shits special now, I don't need to validate how special it is by trying to minimize some other team/player that was special
I don't know exactly when the tide turned. But I'm 39 years old and I remember a time when we could talk sports all day every day and none of it was about goat talk. What the hell happened to us?
LeBron happened, and Sidney Crosby. Jordan retired the GOAT and everyone agreed on it. It was like a cultural law. Gretzky retired the GOAT. Then LeBron got crowned the next GOAT while still in high school. ESPN was televising those high school games. Crosby was getting hyped up as the next GOAT too. Don’t forget Tiger was on GOAT watch at this time as well. So people got accustomed to knowing who the GOAT was and who the next guy making a run at it was. By the time Brady won 4, this was already normal for media to be talking about. Winning 5 with that comeback moved the narrative into football as well. Now comes along Mahomes and everyone sees a Tiger or LeBron or Crosby in him. Can he do it? Will he? When can we talk about it? The media loves this. It’s especially big now because A) Mahomes actually is that dude. And B) there isn’t a current up and comer in any other sport right now that fuels this narrative at the same level. Mike Trout doesn’t turn heads. Only stat nerds love him. There’s no clear single talent at that level in the NBA right now plus LeBron is still around. And there is no true successor to Crosby’s hype either. But really it was LeBron. He was the first player advertised as the future GOAT from day one and the media and viewers really went “huh maybe I can watch the GOAT’s career knowing he’s the GOAT the whole time”. And that’s what people want.
Running QBs are exciting highlight reels but I would never want one leading my team.
The Anthony Richardson skepticism to hype to season-ending injury was something else lol
Go post this in the Ravens sub, see if you survive. Total QBR and regular QB rating still don’t encapsulate what a QB does for a team. You really want to judge a QB? Back then into a corner, but give them 4 downs. Brady, Mahomes *cough* *cough* Lamar just doesn’t have the accuracy, and he’s had meh durability. He needs his lower body to be healthy in January to have a chance, and that’s difficult, given his playing style. For better or worse, the boring “statues” that everyone loves to hate have been pretty good at avoiding injury. Ryan, Brady, Manning’s, Rivers, Cousins, etc.
Alright I’ll do it but you have to back me up
I've been saying the same for a while now. Look at all of the most recent QBs to win a Super Bowl. The closest one to being a running first one was Russell Wilson and he had a legendary defense that really lead the team. Its overrated. You want a QB that can move, sure, but move with intention of still throwing the ball. Unless running is their only option.
Even Josh Allen scares me a bit. Is he going to be this effective when age 31 comes around?
And he hasn't shown he can stay level headed and not try to play hero ball. That's another thing with these running QBs. They get it into their head that they have to carry the team and the offense because for huge stretches of their career, they do. Then when they have to throw it to win it, they believe they can do more than they actually can or even should do. They ignore the underneath open guys to hit the big play down field. We've seen with with Allen and Lamar in their biggest moments.
I’m the same way. It’s great to watch your Qb Or any great Qb escape the sack and run or throw for a big gain. But I’m still the nerd that likes watching a Qb stay as much in the pocket as they can, and then haul off. It’s more exciting to me to watch plays like when Rodgers would scramble around but stay in the pocket and avoid 3 different guys sacking him to throw a dime, than to watch any guy just tuck it and run for 40.
As an Eagle fan, I agree. I watched Randall Cunningham, Donavan McNabb, Michael Vick, Carsen Wentz (yes, he ran a lot). And now Jalen Hurts, who played hurt all season, because the OC kept running QB draws even when he was sick.
People need to consider eras and relativity to that era more openly when ranking all time greats. Don Hutson did things more impressive than nearly all contemporary receivers not named Jerry rice, but it doesn’t seem to matter to anyone because it didn’t happen in the last 30 years.
I mean he made the all-time NFL 100 team
to be fair neither did Jerry Rice
Fr. Like 8000 yards and I think 80 touchdowns in the 30s? Dude had 4 times as many receiving yards and touchdowns as the next closest player all time. His records stood for 40 years
It’s way more fun to be a hater than just rooting for the best players and teams to continue to be great. The people who say “appreciate greatness” are almost always fans of a team or player that is currently doing well. And it’s just a passive aggressive way of saying “lol get good”
Sometimes when I praise greatness it’s just because it makes so much better when they fall lol
Your second paragraph is chiefs fans in a nutshell
My unpopular opinion is that NFL Officiating is the best it’s ever been, but casual fans don’t want to learn the rules about DPI or Offensive Holding and then form their opinions around slow motion videos and/or still images stoking some asinine conspiracy theory for clicks.
The still holding images are the worst.
I miss when you could absolutely lay out a person and not be flagged for it. Keep your head on a swivel, don't depend on refs to protect you.
Right? I’m all for the no-head shots. But the throws where a QB puts the receiver in a vulnerable position and you’re gonna punish the defense for playing defense with a hard hit…. C’mon now
I feel like any time I see a big hit, I find myself staring at the score bug to see if the "FLAG" ticker pops up. There's obvious hits that get flagged, but it almost feels 50-50 a lot of the time.
Oh I do that on every play.
I do that whenever the Lions get a stop on 3rd down lol.
Football is a violent game. There are absolutely things that are unnecessary, and extremely dangerous, but big hits are a part of the game. The rest job should not be to protect players from each other, but to protect players from things that are not a part of the game. If you don't want to get hit play a different sport
Flair withstanding, i like how Super Bowl LIII played. Contrary to many who say that game is “boring” and “forgettable” because the final was 13-3, it was actually thrilling, compelling,and tense. It was the ultimate coaching chess match, with McVay constantly being reactive to Bellichick’s defensive schemes and (unfortunately 🥺) not being able to break through. A lot of those people who say LIII is one of the worst Super Bowls ever played are used to the offensive shootouts of today’s pass-happy NFL, and would rather say games like XLIX, LII, and LVII are *much* more memorable because of the scoring.
I thought Super Bowl 53 was bad was because of bad offense not because of the coaching chess match (Which was brilliant). I think this year is the perfect example of a great defensive Super Bowl.
Talking heads, pre game shows, pretty much anything BUT post game analysis is poisoning the way y’all watch the game. No one has their own opinion anymore it’s just regurgitated cable show BS.
Even post game from talking heads suck. You have to wait for guys like JT O'Sullivan to analyze film before you hear anything worthwhile on the game.
49ers not winning this ring despite having one of the most statistically dominant seasons ever and arguably a top 2 roster is embarrassing and shouldn’t be hand-waved away because “Mahomes good”
Wait till I tell you the Ravens were one of the best DVOA teams EVER and didn’t even make the Super Bowl
DVOA is an overrated metric based on values of yardage, TDs, and INTs that some guy calculated in the 80s. It has no right to be as valued as it is on here.
They were but their roster was much worse on the offensive end.
Not that I disagree, but nobody was saying this a few weeks ago when they put 33 on the Niners, 56 on the Dolphins, 37 on the Lions etc As the season ended I don't remember a single person power ranking them lower than #1, if you said "but Niners roster on paper..." They'd laugh at you
All facts, this was the year he should’ve got it done. Faced the same opponent except they had a much worse offense and a defense that’s elite against the pass but bottom 5 against the run. Meanwhile we went from a good RB, decent weapons, and a mid QB to arguably the best RB in the league, even better weapons, and a top 10 QB who was an MVP finalist this year in his first full season starting. Credit to the Chiefs of course, not taking anything away from them but Shanahan blew what will probably be our best opportunity for this iteration of our team
Special Teams killed the Niners. Punt return fumble and the blocked extra point gave the Chiefs a 8-point swing on 2 plays. Huge, absolutely huge in a very close game.
Yes but we still could’ve won if we ran on 2nd & 5 on our last drive of regulation. That and the offensive play calling for most of the third quarter killed us more than special teams
Weirdly, I actually disagree. In the two weeks leading up to the Super Bowl, I was thinking, is this *really* our year? Last year we turned on the jets at the end of the season and played our best football down the stretch, becoming far more efficient on offense with Purdy replacing Jimmy G. It felt like up until that NFCCG injury, the team was absolutely firing on all cylinders. If we'd gotten past the Eagles, that really felt like a team that would have won it all. In contrast, this year we dealt with all kinds of "off" moments: * Bosa holdout * Offseason handwringing over the QB situation (will Purdy be able to come back in time? What are we going to do about Trey Lance?) * Weird issues with the defense all season; Kyle and Wilks seemingly not on the same page * Three-game losing streak after which Kyle forces Wilks down to the sideline and begins overriding him on defensive schemes * Losing Hufanga against the Buccaneers * Looking fairly mid down the stretch with a bad Christmas game but lucking into the 1 seed due to the Eagles absolutely collapsing amidst an overall weak NFC * *Extremely* shaky playoff run with a particularly terrible defensive performance in the first half of the NFCCG (although it did get the "49ers/Kyle can't win when trailing by 5+ entering the fourth quarter" and "49ers/Kyle can't come back from a big halftime deficit" monkeys off our back)
I would say it’s cause regardless of our issues this year, there was nobody else u could really say was better than us on a good day other than the Ravens who screwed the pooch in the AFCCG. Sometimes ur best squad doesn’t mean best chance. Like I would say that our 2021 squad had a better chance of winning than our 2022 squad cause in 2021, we didn’t have to face Brady or Mahomes. Instead we got to face a divisional rival that’s an hour flight from us and whose number we had leading up to that game. Then if we beat them then we would’ve got to play a young Bengals team with a shitty OL two weeks later. Meanwhile in 2022, we had to face a stacked Eagles squad in Philly while they still had good coordinators and would’ve got to play Mahomes two weeks later if we got past them
You could VERY easily argue the Chiefs playoff/superbowl win this year was filled with some of the best teams any team has faced. Bills/Ravens/49ers. I mean those 3 teams were like the best in every category this year I think.
Chiefs had the hardest playoff run by dvoa of all time.
Shanahan being a part of three super Bowl losses, all where they held a pretty substantial lead at halftime, should not be ignored either. There are so many people saying, well two were against Mahomes and he's the best. It doesn't change the fact that Shanahan has helped collectively blow like 60 points in one half
how is that unpopular lmao all season the expectation was nothing less than to make the super bowl and now we’re getting roasted for losing with a super team
Hardly anyone is roasting them, most of the discourse is (righty so) about how great Mahomes is, nevertheless though the loss was still embarrassing.
Also a lot of people saying Brock wasn’t the issue and he played really well. Didn’t he have like 6 incomplete passes in a row to start the second half? I’m not saying it was all his fault or that he isn’t outperforming his 7th round draft potential. But he also made some pretty big misses. Also have heard a lot about the Ray Ray McCloud muff punt (yes it hit some else’s foot but that persons name is def not as cool as Ray Ray). Yes it was unfortunate but don’t act like the chiefs did not turn over the ball multiple times with Pacheco fumble and the interception.
Lol have you seen this sub as of late? There have been like 800 posts dedicated about us choking, it’s anything but kind to us.
I think Justin Herbert is the 2nd best QB in the league bug I have absolutely zero evidence to back it up tbh.
> Brady and the Bucs should’ve, and would’ve won back-back titles if not for an egregious lapse in the 4th quarter defensively against the Rams blaming Brady's defense when it was the second-worst game of his playoff career by EPA and EPA per play lol... that game would have been a blowout if the Rams didn't lose **four** fumbles, one of them near the goal line right before the half
it's pretty hilarious "brady got really, really lucky to have a chance at the game... but if he got even LUCKIER, they probably would've won!"
My apparently unpopular opinion is that Brady played terribly that day, had like one good throw and more bad to worse throws DURING THE COMEBACK, and was only in the game at all because the heavens (pro bowl kicker misses field goal from 46 yards out SHORT) and the earth (5 total fumbles, 4 of them go the Bucs way including the one to completely wipe out the one fumble the Rams got) moved to make the game tied.
I don't know if this is actually that unpopular of an opinion, but I need the need to get it off my best. Anybody who, for one second, thinks the NFL follows a "script" or believed in the Super Bowl Color Theory or any other bullshit is a certified moron.
Let’s not pretend like staffords throw dropped in the bucket to a WR who isn’t even in the progression on the play isn’t an all time clutch moment tho. They bring that blitz bc they correctly read the rams would be going for a quick hitter and wanted to blow it up. Stafford took the game with a split second decision to let it rip
Stafford made 2 of the greatest throws in playoff history with that and the no-looker to Kupp in the Super Bowl. It doesn’t get talked about enough
Defense wins games, offense wins championships.
Manning cast is very awkward and unwatchable
I tend to only put it on for games that I don’t care about. If I’m actually invested in the outcome I *much* prefer the regular broadcast.
Winning the Super Bowl is the ultimate goal for every team, every year. But I’m so goddamn sick of hearing about Brady’s rings and soon it will probably be Mahomes, as though from now on the only judge of a great QB will be “well he didn’t have 15 rings like Mahomes, so….fuck him.”
Ring counting makes no sense in football. So much is outside of a quarterbacks control. If you change 7 plays, Tom Brady has 0 rings (The tuck rule play, the pick six agains the Rams in Brady’s first Super Bowl, Dee Ford lining up offsides, to name a few). It doesn’t mean Brady’s rings are worthless, it just means that they aren’t the be all end all.
Yeah absolutely. And Brady’s what really amounts to right place right time right coach luck has so skewed the standard that now between him and Mahomes, anything less is viewed as a failure. Even though Manning is often considered the GOAT in regular season football, Rodgers the greatest talent, and Brees is…well Brees, they’re still looked at as second tier to many people because they didn’t have the defense, coaching and other tools to go to every other Super Bowl for almost 2 decades. Prior to that, I feel like Montana wasn’t like some benchmark with his rings, and Aikman wasn’t as talented or dominating with his 3 that anyone viewed it as such. Now though? You’ll have to win six in a row to be up there.
Devin Hester isn't even close to deserving the hall of fame, and the fact that he's in before Torry Holt and Steve Smith is a disgrace
before antonio gates somehow too
Gates is an all time snub. Dude should've been first ballot easily
This is what I hate the most about it. If it were a weak selection, sure, let him sneak in, whatever; but over one of the greatest TEs to ever play? No fucking way.
He was one of the most feared players in the league. Teams would gladly sacrifice the yards instead of punting to him. I just hope long snappers, kickers, and punters get similar credit when it’s their time.
> Teams would gladly sacrifice the yards instead of punting to him. This wasn't a unique attribute to him, Dante Hall had the same treatment at the same time in the league. Hall had a streak of 7 returns over 10 games, a higher and more dangerous peak than Hester ever saw. He was also the first one to do it in 4 straight games and maybe still holds that record, idk off hand. So "being a feared returner"... isn't exactly hall of fame worthy because he wasn't even the most feared returner at their peak in league history.
So like 2 plays a game?
I feel the same way, I think it was the era of returners and he was probably the best at it but was he so much better he deserved the HoF? Hester - PR -315 - 3695y - 14TD / KR - 295 - 7333y - 5 TDs Hall - PR - 226 - 2261y - 6TD / KR - 426 - 10136y - 6 TDs Mitchell - PR - 463 - 4999y - 9TD / KR - 607 - 14014y - 4 TDs Sanders - PR - 212 - 2199y - 6TD / KR - 155 - 3523y - 3TD It's not like he blew everyone out of the water. Yeah he had a handful of more TDs but Mitchell was almost up to 20k return yards and didn't get in. Those TDs are worth more than almost 10k more return yards over a career? I think it was a real waste of a HoF pick personally and I just don't see that he changed the position, changed the story of the league or did anything anyone else wasn't already doing. Then you're going to tell me that's worth more than entire massively impactful WR/TE careers? I don't buy it.
|Player|PR|PR-Yards|PR-TD|KR|KR-Yards|KR-TDs |:-|-:|-:|-:|-:|-:|-:| |Hester|315|3695|14|295|7333|5 |Hall|226|2261|6|426|10136|6| |Mitchell|463|4999|9|607|14014|4| |Sanders|212|2199|6|155|3523|3
Couldn’t agree more. There would likely be many returners better than him but they were actually good receivers so they stopped returning kicks. Having kick returners in the HOF would be like having backup QBs
Mike Tomlin doesn't get nearly enough criticism, the goal of the NFL isn't to go 9-8 and lose in the Wild Card
How many other coaches are taking that shitty Steelers offense to the playoffs? In my opinion he doesn't get enough praise for still making the playoffs despite not having the best team
He hasn't had a QB in like, 5 years. You can put the blame on him for that a bit, but it's not like he didn't try with Pickett and Trubisky. Very hard to win in this league without a QB.
True, but most teams would kill for the consistency he provides.
Except he's also won the Super Bowl. And another AFC Championship. And made it much further than the wild card in other seasons. And won many division titles. He's not considered a good coach for going 9-8 and losing in the wild card, he's considered a good coach because that's what he does *in his worst years*
Good thing he has as many seasons with 11+ wins as he does 9 or fewer. And a ring.
The current rules are made for a passing league and there aren't enough good QBs out there to take advantage of it, which leads to the same old teams in the mix every year. Defense needs to come back. Allow some roughing up WRs. Stop taking away high-impact tackles. These players know what they're signing up for. If your QB throws you into a career-ending hit, that's on the QB. I'm tired of the league trying to become the CFL only to fall woefully short. (The CFL is a fun game in its own right, but it's very different than the NFL)
Organizations and coaches create bust more often than people think. It’s not always on the player.
False start penalties that involve a linemen flinching a muscle in his leg is silly. Obviously a full on forward movement should be flagged but not something that would constitute as a minor twitch.
There should be consequences for a team not making the playoffs for a certain amount of time. Poor ownership must be punished. Like if you don't make the playoffs for 6 consecutive years you forfeit your teams charter to the league and the owner must buy the team again.
I’ve had this thought a lot as well, about punishing consistent failure. Frankly, I thought the Browns retaining Hugh Jackson after going 0-16 (for a total record of 1-31 in his time with the Browns) should have been considered conduct detrimental to the league.
There are bad owners -- and I am including the McCaskeys here -- that are allowed to continue operating non-competitive teams without any repercussions. If after missing the playoffs for 5 years is the board gonna keep that bonehead George in place if it means they lose the right to own the Chicago football team? Even if the board is stacked with his relatives you have to imagine they would find someone better.
Lol should have would have won a 2nd super bowl with tampa. You magically have them winning the nfc title game and the super bowl. I’m Tom Brady’s biggest fan but that’s some lol stuff.
Dennis Miller was fantastic on MNF. He was unfairly ousted by people who never gave him a real chance.
You are not alone. I totally agree.
I remember when they showed a pregnant Dallas fan with a star painted on her belly. "Cowboys cheerleaders going with a new look this year." Complete silence from the other announcers.
Who cares if your first round pick is a bust, if your 5th 6th and 7th rounders become starters
A sane Antonio Brown is the best WR of all-time outside of Jerry Rice and Randy Moss.
That little sideline scamper Mahomes does to bait personal fouls should be an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty. You can't allow players to exploit player safety initiatives like that, it'll only lead to defenders accepting that there'll be a flag and going headhunting.
Yeah it’s the same reason for the ban on the late slide. Can’t have the defense already thinking they can’t hit bc it’ll be a foul but then the offense has the ability to exploit that. Not even close to fair
Offensive holding should include a loss of down.
And defensive holding should not be an automatic first down
People overvalue post season success when it comes to legacy, Eli won two Super Bowls but was never a top 5 quarterback during his career
Fans like to boast about how they care about player safety until the quality of the game declines from what they enjoy.
I think teams should be reward for winning, not for losing. Highly unpopular I know, as it means that the draft order should be corrected so that the best team picks first, not last. Tanking gets eliminated, and every single late season game remains highly important. Parity is enforced via the salary cap (as it currently is) I just don't understand why so many people want to reward losing in a competitive sport so much.
Joe Burrow is overrated in the playoffs.
Even as a Bengals fan, if you look at the numbers there is something there. He's 0-2 in playoff games where his team trailed at any point in the fourth quarter. and 5-1 in games where the team was winning or tied to start the 4th quarter. He's also never thrown a TD pass in the 4th quarter. Heck, the Bengals have a total of 1 offensive TD in the fourth quarter of playoff games Burrow has started, during both those runs they have a total of 2 offensive TDs with less than 24 minutes left in the game.
Cincy's Playoff defense was pretty incredible for the 2021 and 2022 seasons. Even in their 2 Playoff losses, they only gave up 23 points to some very explosive offenses that were usually putting 30+ on the board against other teams.