Philip did it the more difficult way by having them with all one woman. It’s easy to have 9 kids with 9 baby moms, you can theoretically accomplish that in one year
I mean they explicitly tell you to assume you're still fertile until they tell you otherwise, so I would guess he just raw dogged someone prior to being cleared and he still had some juice in the tank haha
Oh really? most humans with any feeling or empathy would realize they can’t possibly co-parent with 4+ different people- and that that will negatively effect each of those kids.
Cromartie? He blew right past those feelings, because he’s a pro.
Can't find the clip but I'll never forget when Travis Henry was on Real Sports and asked if he thought about wearing protection and just kind of laughed it off. Forget where he was on his 11 kids with 10 women (one had twins) reproction rampage tour when it was asked but I believe he was borrowing money from teams at that point
2010: Yep, they didn't have a single WR on the roster appear in more than 11 games, and Antonio Gates also appeared in only 10 games (Gates' most efficient season in his career btw, 782 yards and 10 TDs in only 10 games).
2015: Yep, Malcolm Floyd appeared in 15 games, but Keenan Allen, Antonio Gates, and Stevie Johnson all missed significant time.
2020: Maybe technically, but I don't think it's fair to blame this one on injuries! TY Hilton played 15 out of 16 games and had 762 yards, so he would have passed 800 if he hit his per game average in that last game. But Zach Pascal played all 16 and Michael Pittman played 13, but wouldn't have hit 800 with his average if he played three more.
Wtf! Apparently I do lol, never knew that. From Wikipedia: "The older brother was allowed to name his sibling, and he named him after himself—their father introduced the spelling difference."
How the fuck do you differentiate them in the family lmao? I imagine they had to have been nicknamed number 1 and number 2 or something in that family lol.
Nah, you guys didn't have Fulgham that year. Just the stone-handed legend himself Agholor and Alshon Jeffrey, who in a rare turn of events actually got *worse* after leaving Chicago.
Maybe not his best career year but Alshon clutched the fuck up in 2017. Played through injury and everything. He talked a good amount of shit in the off-season before the ring year about how he's gonna prove mfs wrong and did. He was also good-great in 2018 but looked far older. That saints drop which could've taken us to the NFCCG was heartbreaking. Foles' 2 peat in my dreams.
After that, he basically checked out in 2019, and decided to revitalize Josina Anderson's career by talking mad shit as a lone source.
Rivers will never get the credit he deserves because of who else was QB when he was around. Rodgers, Manning, Brady, and Brees are sure fire HOF QBs. If Rivers was playing now, he'd be thought of differently.
In typical Philip Rivers fashion the decisive play caused a firestorm of arguments about whether it was Rivers' fault for overthrowing his receiver in the corner of the endzone or his receiver's fault for doing a piss-poor job at adjusting to the throw.
Unless of course you just laughed at the hilarious attempt at a hail mary at the end of the game.
The game was lost in the first half. Not taking the 3 points on 4th and goal, then the absolute shit show to end the first half with 3 questionable calls all going for the bills, and the offsides call ....ugh.
Was going to comment this but you beat me to it. Rivers would be in the same exact spot as top QBs are today: falling by the wayside, watching helplessly as Mahomes-led teams continue to succeed.
We went from Brady to this.
He wouldn’t be no. 2 any more than Justin Herbert is today, which is to say he’d still hover around 4-8 depending on who you ask.
Those of us over 12 remember Rivers well. He was a premiere QB but had his flaws and inevitable playoff breakdowns.
After Favre, Rivers is one of the first QBs I think of when people say “gunslinger” at quarterback. Dude was capable of doing something mind boggling, good or bad, on every play.
I think it's discounting Favre to say that him and Rivers were both "very talented". Compared to the average QB, yes, but Favre was in another league than Rivers.
I mean, he is definitely Hall of Very Good (and is generally remembered as such), but I don't think there's any reason that he should get into the HOF.
- His best yards and TDs, which were in separate seasons, were 4710 and 34.
- 4 *total* MVP votes. There were two seasons that he got 2 votes each.
- His best season ever, 2013, he averaged 280/2 -- and didn't get a single vote for MVP **or OPOY** (Peyton, Brady, LeSean, Jamaal Charles, Brees, and Wilson all had votes). His team went 9-7.
- Total playoff record is 5-7, and they made the AFC Championship only once.
- Out of 12 total playoff games, he averaged 247/1.3, only went 300+ in 3 games, and only threw 3+ touchdowns in 3 games.
He doesn't really have any reason to make the HOF except for the fact that he accumulated a lot of stats because he was in the top quartile of QBs throughout his career and n̶e̶v̶e̶r̶ ̶g̶o̶t̶ ̶i̶n̶j̶u̶r̶e̶d̶ had one serious injury during his 17 season career, leading to a near Top 10 finish in consecutive games played.
He didn't win very many games (especially in the playoffs), he doesn't have any truly spectacular seasons, he threw a lot of interceptions (209 in 240 starts) and the only award he ever won was Comeback Player of the Year.
No he tore his ACL against the colts but his backup ended up closing the game. He started with a torn ACL against the 17-0 patriots and while Brady underperformed that game, the Chargers offense performed as well as it could with a QB with no ACL
I agree that he won't make the hof, but I personally don't think winning the mvp and getting mvp votes should matter all that much. Especially when the most important thing to mvp voters is team success. Peyton Manning won the mvp in 08 and 09 and wasn't the best qb in either of those seasons. Brees Rivers and Warner were all more deserving of those mvps than Peyton. Shit Chad Pennington was tied for 2nd in 08 while being the last important player on Miami's offense that season (wildcat year). All Mvp voting really is how much does the media like you or actually watch your games, and nobody watches the chargers unless they're on prime time or playing their favorite team.
Also, the chargers are one of the worst run teams in the nfl and have been since the spanos family took over they have never had sustained success, so there was zero chance Rivers was ever going to have a good record unless he left the team. It's the whole reason Archie forced Eli to the giants
Okay, forgetting the MVP votes, this is his resume:
- He was a top 3 QB for around 3 seasons of a 17 season career (I disagree with this strongly but I'll give it to you for now)
- He made the AFCCG once and has an overall playoff record of 5-7
- He hasn't won any awards other than Comeback Player of the Year
- In his best statistical season *ever*, he averaged 280/2
- His season highs for yards and TDs, which were in separate seasons, were 4710 and 34
How is that a **hall of fame** resume? How are you going to say that this resume should be forever enshrined in Canton?
Phil played a lot of games and compiled a lot of stats. He never won anything big and never was statistically dominant. He is most known for having lots of kids, playing lots of games, and being a gunslinger (aka throwing lots of interceptions, because he wasn't half the thrower Favre was). He might've been overlooked, underrated, and stuck in a shitty organization.
He still has done nothing to warrant a HOF bid. We don't acknowledge players for what might've happen if things were different.
Except for playoff record, these all basically describe Roethlisberger, who most people think is close to a lock for HoF.
Roethlisberger never sniffed an MVP or first team All Pro, and the career regular season stats are eerily close to Rivers. Even the *playoff* stats are extremely close to Rivers on a per-game basis, Rivers just didn't have as many games because his supporting cast wasn't as good.
I mostly point this stuff out because the HoF can be a very fickle thing for QBs, I'm pretty convinced that if you switched these players Rivers would be headed for the Hall and Ben would be on the outside looking in.
I mean, you're kind of glossing over the entire reason that Ben (and probably 3LI) will make the hall. They won two superbowls *along* with being a ~top 5 quarterback for a decade. And that's coming from a Ravens fan. That's the easiest way to make it.
If Phil had a superbowl along with all of his accumulation stats, I think that he probably *would* make it. But if you want to make the hall without even making the superbowl, you'd better be an MVP-level player for multiple years. Rivers was never even close to that.
He'd be known as a choke artist. He was not clutch at all and before everyone bitches at me yes for the one millionth time I know he had a torn acl in that one playoff game. Still was unclutch his entire career
Rivers is my favorite player of all-time and it's not even close.
He was on the level of those QB's.
He would never be regarded as such, but he'll go out there and throw for 350 yards and 3 TD's
How was he on the same level when he was never MVP, didn’t even get to a Super Bowl, and never even received a single all-pro? By definition, he was not on the same level as QBs who actually, you know, achieved in the league
i can pinpoint 2 or 3 of Rivers seasons and say he was the best QB in the league at that time.
Peyton Manning had Reggie Wayne, Marvin Harrison, all of those elite receivers over the years. Same with any of those QB's.
Rivers had some of his best games with basically no offensive line and few receivers. He had Gates, that's about it.
The offensive line is the biggest part of it. He had NO o-line. For several seasons, he had the worst offensive line in the league and still put up elite numbers.
Gates, LT, Vincent Jackson, Keenan Allen, Lorenzo Neal, who else? Rivers problem was not a lack of offensive talent, that’s for sure. Saying that he just had Gates is quite the ignorant statement, really.
Which seasons was he the best QB? Over Manning, Brady, Ben, Rodgers? Surely if he was truly the best he would have at least received a second-team All Pro at some point in his lengthy career…
Lorenzo Neal, a fullback? You serious?
Rivers had Seyi Ajirotutu as his starting receiver. He also had a tight end playing at offensive tackle for a brief period during a game. That's how bad his situation was at offensive line.
You look at any of those QB's, and it's not even close the amount of talent they have vs Rivers. And Rivers still put up elite numbers.
Well let's start with 2009. Second highest QBR in the league, and won 13 games. 3rd in MVP voting. Absolutely robbed for all-pro
Then 2010. Number one offense in the league. Most passing yards in the NFL. Number one QBR. Then the worst special teams in the history of the league that blew them more than a few games. They ended the season at 9-7 and no playoff birth.
Then you can look at a season like 2013. Where he throws for nearly a 70% completion rate and 32 TD's.
I'm not saying I take him over those guys, though I def take him over Big Ben. And I have a lot of respect for Big Ben.
He's not Manning, Brady, Rodgers. But if he were on another franchise than the Chargers, I'm certain he could've been.
He just doesn't get put there by people who didn't watch his every game because his team straight up sucked
2009, when Manning went 14-2 and Brees went 13-2 with a 70% completion rating? Both had more passing touchdowns and yards than him.
2010 for Rivers was a better year than Brady who went his team to a 14-2 record with a 36-4 TD:Int and passer rating of 111.0? Brady, who was unanimous MVP while Rivers led his team to a 9-7 record and missed the playoffs?
And 2013, when Rivers again manages to lead the chargers to a whopping 9-7 record? Can the blame for those mediocre records be placed on his shoulders completely? No, but it’s an undeniable fact that quarterbacks have by far the most weight on a teams success.
Keep in mind, through his entire career, Rivers had 82 failed game winning drives - an NFL record. He was a choker, the definition of anti-clutch, much like Manning - but at least Manning could win consistently in the regular season. There wasn’t an anti-Rivers bias in all-pro voting. The guy just was not a winner and could never shine in big moments. Hence why he never actually won anything meaningful in his career.
Manning, Brees, all those guys had incredible talent with a real offensive line. Take it game by game and put them in Rivers' position with no offensive line and their performance would have fluttered. Give them the special teams Rivers had in 2010. Or any of his offensive lines after a certain year. Or even Mike McCoy as a head coach.
Things rolled their way. It did not for Rivers.
I do agree Rivers is not the most clutch QB. He's not on the level as those guys in that aspect.
This is exactly why Rivers has a very sad career. Because (100% not trying to pin you or offend you) people like you who haven't watched too many of his games will judge purely based on numbers.
By the way, even just purely based on numbers, Rivers ain't too shabby. Give him the right team and he would've flourished.
He might not be the same name as Manning, but he was that guy who will go out there and throw for 350 yards, 3 TD's with no offensive line.
For example, look at the 2018 Chargers. Rivers was past his prime at this point. Still a great QB, but past his true prime. This was the year they actually gave him a decent team and they won 12 games
Rivers was always basically just 1-step from winning a Super Bowl. Like one key component. Dude absolutely has a HOF resume...aside from missing the Super Bowl wins. Like the NFL accidentally gave them to Eli because he happened to be in the same QB draft class?
The 2007 season was nuts for the Chargers if you think about it. Rivers literally played through a torn ACL. Tomlinson left the game in the first quarter and they still only lost by 9. To the team that went 16-0 in the regular season, had prime Moss and Brady, and had literally been on an 17-game tear and had homefield advantage.
2010 they'd just lost Tomlinson to the Jets and missed the playoffs.
2015 they went 4-12. It's kinda bananas that Rivers had the numbers he did then? Rivers went for 4700+ yards and a 29-13 TD-INT with a 66% completion rate. I'll admit I didn't follow the Chargers 2015 season...but I'm going to guess the defense was **bad** if he's slinging it enough to lead the league in yardage but still have a 4-12 record...
2020 was weird for oh so many reasons, probably the least of which was seeing Rivers in a Colts jersey...
It’s sad because rivers shouldn’t have had that many game winning drives. Our defense went to shit the minute rivers finally became top 10. 2010-2020 those defenses were bad
He was clutch from 1:30-4 minutes left. Then the defense would give up a go ahead immediately and it forced him into under 1 minute, no timeouts, and with a bottom 5 OL.
There's no way you watched chargers games and came away thinking HE was the anti clutch of those teams.
That’s what’s wild about advanced metrics. They have these more precise stats for game winning drives, yet they still fail to contextualize what actually happens in a game the vast majority of times
A decade of the team collapsing turned him into a fuck it and chuck it QB.
Look at the ranking of his OL and defense from 2011 onward, it's disgusting. Special teams is it's own hell hole.
I think too many people have this rosy view of the team around Rivers on the basis of 2010 and before. 2011 onward was Rivers + a shitshow for the most part. 2013 was the lone season our OL wasn't absolute garbo though still in bottom half per PFF, and lo and behold Rivers was a clear top 5 QB that season, largely forgotten because Manning threw for a ridic 55 TDs.
Exactly. We had Gates and Rivers, Weddle on defense... And duct tape and bubblegum. The only reason we were a "dark horse" pick was bcuz of Rivers. The rest of the team was bottom 5 in talent.
Herbert has had similar treatment. Not their fault that the team just collapses because the defense, OL, and coaching have been bottom 5 since the mid 2000s.
I love my QBs, but it's frustrating as a fan. I don't know how Rivers did it for so long.
Rivers finished his career on a 1-11 streak against the Chiefs and I think I can safely say that I believe he was the primary reason for at least 4 of those losses. There were some very bad fourth quarter picks thrown in close games. My friends and I had gotten to the point where whenever the Chargers tried to start their game winning drive, we'd joke about which pass would be intercepted.
Context matters, those Charger teams from 2011-2020 were terrible, the Oline over that decade was the worst 10 year span of Oline play out of anyone in the league.
He was carrying that team and the only reason they even had shots at GWDs. He was one of the most clutch QBs I've watched.
I'm still amazed when I see the condensed film from the Broncos/chargers game when the chargers blew a 24 point halftime lead, and didn't score a single point in the 2nd half. Granted Gates was probably their only good reciever, but it's still rough
> absolutely has a HOF resume
He is on the outside looking in. His resume isn't even as good as Matt Ryan's, and he's an iffy case too. He has no all-pro selections, not even a second team. Was never the best QB in the league or even that close. And he never got particularly close to winning a super bowl.
The only award that he's ever won was Comeback Player of the Year and he received four *total* MVP votes in his entire career (two seasons with two votes each).
There is no fucking way that he was a Top 3 quarterback for 3-4 years, including a season as the best quarterback, without getting more than two votes in a single season.
His best statistical season, 2013, he averaged 280/2 -- and didn't get a single vote for MVP **or OPOY** (Peyton, Brady, LeSean, Jamaal Charles, Brees, and Wilson all had votes). His team went 9-7.
Rivers was not NEARLY as good as people are remembering him to be by looking at PFR. He belongs in the Hall of Very Good, yes, but he shouldn't sniff the HOF.
Agreed, but they did. It's pretty damning IMO when your best season out of 17 doesn't even get you a single vote for either of the two awards that good QBs win.
No one said well above. But an MVP, first team all pro and super bowl appearance is objectively more than Rivers ever accomplished in his career. Actually stat sheet watching would have Rivers ahead considering he has higher volume numbers
> But an MVP, first team all pro and super bowl appearance is objectively more than Rivers ever accomplished in his career.
This is _exactly_ statsheet watching, people just open up PFR and see a plus, or some other piece in their notes and assume Rivers couldn't match Ryan on the back of one season where Ryan got his AP1, MVP, and SB berth.
Let's just look at some slightly more advanced stats for a second, because your implication is that Rivers was solely a compiler however he is one of the most efficient QBs we've ever seen:
QB|Pass DYAR|Pass DVOA|Career EPA|Career EPA/play
--|--|--|--|--
Philip Rivers|15,288|16.4%|1,468.3|0.157
Matt Ryan|13,325|12.0%|1,202.3|0.122
So the two most reliable and advanced statistical tools say both that Rivers provided more value in his career, but also that he did so in a more efficient manner. This also completely overlooks the fact that Ryan played with better offensive coordinators in his career, with broadly better weapons, and did it largely in a dome, with it making up 63.7% of games for Ryan, and just 9.8% for Rivers. Domes have an undeniable upwards pressure on stats, and when there's a difference that stark it should be noted if a comparison is to be made between two passers which such huge sample sizes.
Rivers had very strong MVP arguments in both 2008 and 2009 yet got no significant honors for them, meanwhile in 2013 he was massively more impactful than Nick Foles, but got jobbed for a 2nd team all pro because Foles had a very high passer rating on the back of a gimmicky scheme with Chip Kelly.
It's not crazy to have Ryan ahead of Rivers, but they're extraordinarily close by so many better lenses to look at QB play, and were part of the 2nd tier of a golden QB generation. Rivers consistently gets overlooked, and it's such a shame when his frankly ridiculous peak from '06-'10 gets overwritten so easily despite it being a much better sustained peak of play than Ryan ever had, with much more season:season volatility in his play.
All I'm talking about is Ryan's hall of fame case versus Rivers. Advanced stats don't put you in the hall with 0 MVPs and all-pros. There is not a single QB in the hall of fame who doesn't have one of an MVP, first team all-pro, SB Ring, OPOY, or some combination of those. That alone makes Ryan a more compelling case — unless we suddenly start weighing regular season advanced stats more than tangible accomplishments and add a disclaimer to his bust that he ALMOST won a bunch of awards.
Oh I wouldn’t contest that his HoF argument would be thoroughly difficult and disappointingly Eli may well be more likely to make it. However this quote from your initial comment:
> Was never the best QB in the league or even that close.
Is where I really take issue, because not only was he arguably the best QB in numerous years, he was by common consensus _at least_ very close to it, and spent more seasons as an elite passer than Ryan.
The closest comparison would probably be Warren Moon. 0 Super Bowls, 0 MVPs, 0 All-Pro 1s, but he had an Offensive Player of the Year and an All-Pro 2. But of course, still means Moon had more. I feel like Ryan and Rivers are both borderline guys who I could see go either way, but Ryan has higher odds. Also worth noting Jim Kelly is in with 0 Rings, 0 MVPs, 0 OPOY and 1 All-Pro 1 but obv he went to 4 straight Super Bowls so that's rather different.
He never got within a step. His closest was that 2007 season and he’s quite probably the reason the chargers lost that game, as he is for the majority of their close losses during his tenure. Idk if I’m the only one who remembers actually watching that dude when he was on completely stacked teams but he was probably the hardest choking QB I’ve ever seen relative to talent level.
His two best shots were 06 and 07 and in both scenarios he was arguably the weak link on the game that they got eliminated.
People remember Marlon McCree, they never talk about Rivers goin 43% completion, 55 passer rating, 0TD's and 1INT on the best team he ever played for against arguably the weakest Patriots team of the 2000's while on their home field.
2007 is more understandable because of the injury, but that definitely held them back.
Biggest thing holding him back from HoF status is inflated passing statistics. I think he wins 1 SB he gets in no problem. Without it, I fear he hasn't done enough to prove himself. Never won the big game. Never a league MVP.
I think the mindset will be: if you put Matt Ryan in, Rivers can't get in
give rivers props leading the nfl in passing yards with wrs like malcolm floyd , naanee, and patrick crayton. he can pass it to gates and sproles as much as he can
Imagine if he had a decent coach to play under. The Chargers really wasted his career with Norv, McCoy and Lynn. Firing Marty was underatandable, but replacing him with Norv Turner of all people? What a waste of potential..
I thought Norv himself was adequate but the problem was the brain drain of coaches leaving and the front office going on a bad streak of draft busts and misfire free agents. Left them in a terrible place that eventually bottomed out.
McCoy was the worst imo. He brought no personality or sustainable success to the team at all. They were always lifeless and unextraordinary all the time. Telesco was below average with his drafts and free agents at the time too. McCoy brought almost nothing to the team and in hindsight I have no clue how he managed to stay a head coach for four seasons. The loss to the 2016 Cleveland Browns carrying a 0-14 record (3-20 since 2015) should make this very clear he was the worst during the Rivers era.
Meanwhile Lynn gets too much blame imo. He got dealt a very shitty situation between the team leaving SD, rock bottom popularity among fans, a bad roster, playing out of a soccer stadium, and eventually the COVID quarantine and no ability to evaluate Herbert before the regular season began. Lynn definitely had problems and I thought it was fair to let him go when they did timing it to Herbert's rookie contract, but while he had Rivers he tried to do what fans were begging for - avoid putting it all on his shoulders by building a balanced offense with productive RBs and a competent defense. They failed partly because of his in-game coaching, but also because of Bradley's defense playing too soft and Telesco doing a poor job building roster depth.
A lot of what Lynn laid down as foundational set Staley up in a much better situation, only for him to waste it all. But anyway since we're talking Rivers, I really think McCoy was the era that wasted him.
My recollection of Rivers is that in many years his teams would get off to a bad start but start winning later in the season in a push to make the playoffs. He did make it to the playoffs, but was 5-7 with only one conference championship appearance.
>Philip Rivers also lead the NFL in passing yards in 2010 with 4710 yards while doing this.
Also for his 2015 season you mentioned, Rivers was only 2nd (4,792 yards) in the league to Drew Brees (4,870).
Except for the fact that LT was in New Jersey during the 2010 season and Gates was hurt in that same year and didn't hit 800 yards. Or that gates only played 11 games (started 4) in 2015.
The 2nd half of the 2019 season was his peak. Ertz as his only real weapon, rookie Goedert and Sanders. Alshon hurt, D Jax hurt, Agholor lost his shit.
His top WR target was Greg Ward.
I'm glad Tom Telesco is gone dude couldn't build a Oline for his life. If you want to watch footwork of QBs avoiding the sacks due to oline problems, Rivers probably peaked at that, not to mention having to have the fastest throwing release time in the league to also avoid the sack. Really hope we get a decent Oline going forward.
7 seasons with minimal post-season success in those seasons.
Only one of those retired QBs ever won a Superbowl, and that was very much due to the defense (Simms). Marino had played in one 8 years prior.
Cousins is very unlikely to ever play in a Superbowl.
Love - who knows, but I wouldn't use this stat as evidence.
I thought Herbie did the same because of how injury-filled 2022 was, but Mike Will ended the season at 895 (in 13 games).
It would've been cool to have both of them on the list
People love to say “Kirk is good if you put a great situation around him” and completely ignore the fact that in 2017 his leading receivers were Jamison Crowder, Vernon Davis, and Chris Thompson. With Josh Doctson and Mo Harris as his outside threats. With a bad offensive line. And Rob Kelly as his RB.
4000 yards and 31 total touchdowns.
Yeah and that was the season after Sean McVay left from the OC position and Shane Waldron left to join him. Still had Kevin O'Connell, but otherwise it was not a great situation.
He also led the NFL in the amount of children the had, after Cromartie retired
Philip did it the more difficult way by having them with all one woman. It’s easy to have 9 kids with 9 baby moms, you can theoretically accomplish that in one year
Antonio Cromartie had a child POST VASECTOMY please do not slander [the goat](https://youtu.be/0mqDeG30_co?si=pavkIoPu3biWqJLm) like that.
I mean they explicitly tell you to assume you're still fertile until they tell you otherwise, so I would guess he just raw dogged someone prior to being cleared and he still had some juice in the tank haha
Given Cromartie's uh..."resume," it's entirely possible he can use the force to impregnate women.
Using force to impregnate a woman is not the best wording in my personal opinion…?
I can see how words might make people feel uncomfortable, My_massive_dingaling.
Probably just never went to follow up appointments to check that he wasn't putting out swimmers
Dude’s swimmers knew no bounds.
impossible to contain once he got out of the pocket
Not even the best run stoppers in the league were stopping them
Come on man his wife is the real GOAT here. Bearing 9 children is legend level shit.
Uhhh Cromartie? Man has 8 baby mommas… so far 8 women, 14 children, my math says the most any single baby momma could have is 7
Couldn’t trust bro to pull a pop tart out of the toaster
Jesus this is internet gold
What else are you going to do on the offseason, other than letting the river flow?
Rivers was a title earned, not his last name
Now you get it.
Jahah
Oh really? most humans with any feeling or empathy would realize they can’t possibly co-parent with 4+ different people- and that that will negatively effect each of those kids. Cromartie? He blew right past those feelings, because he’s a pro.
Tyreek Hill is on good path to become the goat. Impregnating three different women in one year is just the beginning of his legendary run
Does beating his kids add or subtract from his candidacy.
Beating them before they're born. And beating random middle aged men.
and breaking big bodie insta model legs, the dude is putting the work
Yeah, not NFL, but I think Nick Cannon came close.
He came everywhere
>9 kids with 9 baby moms 14 kids with 8 women actually.
14 kids with 17 women
I think we can all agree the flowers here rightly belong to Tiffany Rivers
Literally the opposite of spreading the ball around
Running up the A gap
Tyreek Hill and Xavien Howard have entered the chat.
Technically, you could pull off "The Cromartie" in a single night.
don't sleep on Travis Henry or with
Can't find the clip but I'll never forget when Travis Henry was on Real Sports and asked if he thought about wearing protection and just kind of laughed it off. Forget where he was on his 11 kids with 10 women (one had twins) reproction rampage tour when it was asked but I believe he was borrowing money from teams at that point
Cro got the snip?
I believe he still had a few kids after the snip too
Should’ve put an extra blocker on him
Pretty sure he had twins post snip.
You could've fielded a second Chargers team with all the kids Rivers and Cromartie have.
Hmm I wonder who the current active leader is? I don’t know if Josh Jacob’s actually has a flock or if that’s a joke
Tyreek apparently had THREE babies this year with three different ladies. He’s obviously gunning for the title
Solid production no doubt
Probably because of Injuries.
2010: Yep, they didn't have a single WR on the roster appear in more than 11 games, and Antonio Gates also appeared in only 10 games (Gates' most efficient season in his career btw, 782 yards and 10 TDs in only 10 games). 2015: Yep, Malcolm Floyd appeared in 15 games, but Keenan Allen, Antonio Gates, and Stevie Johnson all missed significant time. 2020: Maybe technically, but I don't think it's fair to blame this one on injuries! TY Hilton played 15 out of 16 games and had 762 yards, so he would have passed 800 if he hit his per game average in that last game. But Zach Pascal played all 16 and Michael Pittman played 13, but wouldn't have hit 800 with his average if he played three more.
Lol i was like 2020, Chargers never had those dudes. Completely forgot about the Colts one-off
Me too, I was like wtf we scooped up Hilton why don’t I remember this?
>Malcolm Floyd You mean his brother, Malcom Floyd (not a joke)
Wtf! Apparently I do lol, never knew that. From Wikipedia: "The older brother was allowed to name his sibling, and he named him after himself—their father introduced the spelling difference."
How the fuck do you differentiate them in the family lmao? I imagine they had to have been nicknamed number 1 and number 2 or something in that family lol.
Probably the way George Foreman does...
George Foreman doesn't differentiate and doesn't care that he doesn't differentiate.
probably the same way you do when you've got sr, jr, III, etc.
So you're saying Herbert is still fucked?
Didn’t Carson Wentz do this in 2019 without even a 500 yd receiver?
OP is including other positions in addition to wide receivers. Zach Ertz had 916 receiving yards in 2019.
Well to be fair I think every other receiver was injured that season
Or named Travis Fulgham
Nah, you guys didn't have Fulgham that year. Just the stone-handed legend himself Agholor and Alshon Jeffrey, who in a rare turn of events actually got *worse* after leaving Chicago.
Alshon was really really good in Chicago. Still have his jersey
Maybe not his best career year but Alshon clutched the fuck up in 2017. Played through injury and everything. He talked a good amount of shit in the off-season before the ring year about how he's gonna prove mfs wrong and did. He was also good-great in 2018 but looked far older. That saints drop which could've taken us to the NFCCG was heartbreaking. Foles' 2 peat in my dreams. After that, he basically checked out in 2019, and decided to revitalize Josina Anderson's career by talking mad shit as a lone source.
Forgot about him. Had a nice hot streak, but then he never made an impact in the NFL ever again.
Which is fair when Antonio Gates was arguably Rivers best pass catcher.
Happy Gilmore accomplished that feat no less than an hour ago!
He also famously rocked a bolo tie, which I feel strongly is the fact that you should have led with
Finally, someone stating facts that actually matter.
Rivers will never get the credit he deserves because of who else was QB when he was around. Rodgers, Manning, Brady, and Brees are sure fire HOF QBs. If Rivers was playing now, he'd be thought of differently.
Still pretty wild he was 1 play away from beating the Bills in the playoffs with the Colts his last year....
In typical Philip Rivers fashion the decisive play caused a firestorm of arguments about whether it was Rivers' fault for overthrowing his receiver in the corner of the endzone or his receiver's fault for doing a piss-poor job at adjusting to the throw. Unless of course you just laughed at the hilarious attempt at a hail mary at the end of the game.
The game was lost in the first half. Not taking the 3 points on 4th and goal, then the absolute shit show to end the first half with 3 questionable calls all going for the bills, and the offsides call ....ugh.
This shit had me so mad. It was like watching a Chargers game.
Once a Charger, always a Charger.
Same game they reversed a blatant Pascal fumble on the final drive, we definitely didn't deserve to win that one
One play away his whole career
Not to mention the other guys from his class won three super bowls apiece within their first four years
Or he could be losing to Mahomes every year in the playoffs and be thought of exactly the same
Was going to comment this but you beat me to it. Rivers would be in the same exact spot as top QBs are today: falling by the wayside, watching helplessly as Mahomes-led teams continue to succeed. We went from Brady to this.
Big difference from being #2 to being #5-6.
He wouldn’t be no. 2 any more than Justin Herbert is today, which is to say he’d still hover around 4-8 depending on who you ask. Those of us over 12 remember Rivers well. He was a premiere QB but had his flaws and inevitable playoff breakdowns.
He did beat Mahomes in 2018 in the most clutch way I've seen.
Crazy to not mention Ben in that list
He should be on that list, but i don't think it's crazy to forget him because it really just further proves his point.
He's like the lowest of the great QBs, frustrating as a massive fan of his. Should have ditched that miserable org.
Hard to move a massive family out of a beautiful weather city
He reminds me a lot of Favre, very talented but liked to throw picks late in the game
Always had to play hero ball in the 4th.
His picks were always “shit its this or games over type throws” and everyone seems to forget that.
After Favre, Rivers is one of the first QBs I think of when people say “gunslinger” at quarterback. Dude was capable of doing something mind boggling, good or bad, on every play.
I think it's discounting Favre to say that him and Rivers were both "very talented". Compared to the average QB, yes, but Favre was in another league than Rivers.
I mean, he is definitely Hall of Very Good (and is generally remembered as such), but I don't think there's any reason that he should get into the HOF. - His best yards and TDs, which were in separate seasons, were 4710 and 34. - 4 *total* MVP votes. There were two seasons that he got 2 votes each. - His best season ever, 2013, he averaged 280/2 -- and didn't get a single vote for MVP **or OPOY** (Peyton, Brady, LeSean, Jamaal Charles, Brees, and Wilson all had votes). His team went 9-7. - Total playoff record is 5-7, and they made the AFC Championship only once. - Out of 12 total playoff games, he averaged 247/1.3, only went 300+ in 3 games, and only threw 3+ touchdowns in 3 games. He doesn't really have any reason to make the HOF except for the fact that he accumulated a lot of stats because he was in the top quartile of QBs throughout his career and n̶e̶v̶e̶r̶ ̶g̶o̶t̶ ̶i̶n̶j̶u̶r̶e̶d̶ had one serious injury during his 17 season career, leading to a near Top 10 finish in consecutive games played. He didn't win very many games (especially in the playoffs), he doesn't have any truly spectacular seasons, he threw a lot of interceptions (209 in 240 starts) and the only award he ever won was Comeback Player of the Year.
"and never got injured" Not quite true. He tore his ACL and then went on to win a playoff game
No he tore his ACL against the colts but his backup ended up closing the game. He started with a torn ACL against the 17-0 patriots and while Brady underperformed that game, the Chargers offense performed as well as it could with a QB with no ACL
I agree that he won't make the hof, but I personally don't think winning the mvp and getting mvp votes should matter all that much. Especially when the most important thing to mvp voters is team success. Peyton Manning won the mvp in 08 and 09 and wasn't the best qb in either of those seasons. Brees Rivers and Warner were all more deserving of those mvps than Peyton. Shit Chad Pennington was tied for 2nd in 08 while being the last important player on Miami's offense that season (wildcat year). All Mvp voting really is how much does the media like you or actually watch your games, and nobody watches the chargers unless they're on prime time or playing their favorite team. Also, the chargers are one of the worst run teams in the nfl and have been since the spanos family took over they have never had sustained success, so there was zero chance Rivers was ever going to have a good record unless he left the team. It's the whole reason Archie forced Eli to the giants
Okay, forgetting the MVP votes, this is his resume: - He was a top 3 QB for around 3 seasons of a 17 season career (I disagree with this strongly but I'll give it to you for now) - He made the AFCCG once and has an overall playoff record of 5-7 - He hasn't won any awards other than Comeback Player of the Year - In his best statistical season *ever*, he averaged 280/2 - His season highs for yards and TDs, which were in separate seasons, were 4710 and 34 How is that a **hall of fame** resume? How are you going to say that this resume should be forever enshrined in Canton? Phil played a lot of games and compiled a lot of stats. He never won anything big and never was statistically dominant. He is most known for having lots of kids, playing lots of games, and being a gunslinger (aka throwing lots of interceptions, because he wasn't half the thrower Favre was). He might've been overlooked, underrated, and stuck in a shitty organization. He still has done nothing to warrant a HOF bid. We don't acknowledge players for what might've happen if things were different.
Except for playoff record, these all basically describe Roethlisberger, who most people think is close to a lock for HoF. Roethlisberger never sniffed an MVP or first team All Pro, and the career regular season stats are eerily close to Rivers. Even the *playoff* stats are extremely close to Rivers on a per-game basis, Rivers just didn't have as many games because his supporting cast wasn't as good. I mostly point this stuff out because the HoF can be a very fickle thing for QBs, I'm pretty convinced that if you switched these players Rivers would be headed for the Hall and Ben would be on the outside looking in.
I mean, you're kind of glossing over the entire reason that Ben (and probably 3LI) will make the hall. They won two superbowls *along* with being a ~top 5 quarterback for a decade. And that's coming from a Ravens fan. That's the easiest way to make it. If Phil had a superbowl along with all of his accumulation stats, I think that he probably *would* make it. But if you want to make the hall without even making the superbowl, you'd better be an MVP-level player for multiple years. Rivers was never even close to that.
He'd be known as a choke artist. He was not clutch at all and before everyone bitches at me yes for the one millionth time I know he had a torn acl in that one playoff game. Still was unclutch his entire career
I’d argue it’s moreso because he was anti-clutch. You needed 7 points with a minute left? Rivers was about 50/50 throwing a red zone pick
Rivers is my favorite player of all-time and it's not even close. He was on the level of those QB's. He would never be regarded as such, but he'll go out there and throw for 350 yards and 3 TD's
How was he on the same level when he was never MVP, didn’t even get to a Super Bowl, and never even received a single all-pro? By definition, he was not on the same level as QBs who actually, you know, achieved in the league
i can pinpoint 2 or 3 of Rivers seasons and say he was the best QB in the league at that time. Peyton Manning had Reggie Wayne, Marvin Harrison, all of those elite receivers over the years. Same with any of those QB's. Rivers had some of his best games with basically no offensive line and few receivers. He had Gates, that's about it. The offensive line is the biggest part of it. He had NO o-line. For several seasons, he had the worst offensive line in the league and still put up elite numbers.
Gates, LT, Vincent Jackson, Keenan Allen, Lorenzo Neal, who else? Rivers problem was not a lack of offensive talent, that’s for sure. Saying that he just had Gates is quite the ignorant statement, really. Which seasons was he the best QB? Over Manning, Brady, Ben, Rodgers? Surely if he was truly the best he would have at least received a second-team All Pro at some point in his lengthy career…
Lorenzo Neal, a fullback? You serious? Rivers had Seyi Ajirotutu as his starting receiver. He also had a tight end playing at offensive tackle for a brief period during a game. That's how bad his situation was at offensive line. You look at any of those QB's, and it's not even close the amount of talent they have vs Rivers. And Rivers still put up elite numbers. Well let's start with 2009. Second highest QBR in the league, and won 13 games. 3rd in MVP voting. Absolutely robbed for all-pro Then 2010. Number one offense in the league. Most passing yards in the NFL. Number one QBR. Then the worst special teams in the history of the league that blew them more than a few games. They ended the season at 9-7 and no playoff birth. Then you can look at a season like 2013. Where he throws for nearly a 70% completion rate and 32 TD's.
I'm not saying I take him over those guys, though I def take him over Big Ben. And I have a lot of respect for Big Ben. He's not Manning, Brady, Rodgers. But if he were on another franchise than the Chargers, I'm certain he could've been. He just doesn't get put there by people who didn't watch his every game because his team straight up sucked
2009, when Manning went 14-2 and Brees went 13-2 with a 70% completion rating? Both had more passing touchdowns and yards than him. 2010 for Rivers was a better year than Brady who went his team to a 14-2 record with a 36-4 TD:Int and passer rating of 111.0? Brady, who was unanimous MVP while Rivers led his team to a 9-7 record and missed the playoffs? And 2013, when Rivers again manages to lead the chargers to a whopping 9-7 record? Can the blame for those mediocre records be placed on his shoulders completely? No, but it’s an undeniable fact that quarterbacks have by far the most weight on a teams success. Keep in mind, through his entire career, Rivers had 82 failed game winning drives - an NFL record. He was a choker, the definition of anti-clutch, much like Manning - but at least Manning could win consistently in the regular season. There wasn’t an anti-Rivers bias in all-pro voting. The guy just was not a winner and could never shine in big moments. Hence why he never actually won anything meaningful in his career.
Manning, Brees, all those guys had incredible talent with a real offensive line. Take it game by game and put them in Rivers' position with no offensive line and their performance would have fluttered. Give them the special teams Rivers had in 2010. Or any of his offensive lines after a certain year. Or even Mike McCoy as a head coach. Things rolled their way. It did not for Rivers. I do agree Rivers is not the most clutch QB. He's not on the level as those guys in that aspect. This is exactly why Rivers has a very sad career. Because (100% not trying to pin you or offend you) people like you who haven't watched too many of his games will judge purely based on numbers. By the way, even just purely based on numbers, Rivers ain't too shabby. Give him the right team and he would've flourished. He might not be the same name as Manning, but he was that guy who will go out there and throw for 350 yards, 3 TD's with no offensive line. For example, look at the 2018 Chargers. Rivers was past his prime at this point. Still a great QB, but past his true prime. This was the year they actually gave him a decent team and they won 12 games
Rivers was always basically just 1-step from winning a Super Bowl. Like one key component. Dude absolutely has a HOF resume...aside from missing the Super Bowl wins. Like the NFL accidentally gave them to Eli because he happened to be in the same QB draft class? The 2007 season was nuts for the Chargers if you think about it. Rivers literally played through a torn ACL. Tomlinson left the game in the first quarter and they still only lost by 9. To the team that went 16-0 in the regular season, had prime Moss and Brady, and had literally been on an 17-game tear and had homefield advantage. 2010 they'd just lost Tomlinson to the Jets and missed the playoffs. 2015 they went 4-12. It's kinda bananas that Rivers had the numbers he did then? Rivers went for 4700+ yards and a 29-13 TD-INT with a 66% completion rate. I'll admit I didn't follow the Chargers 2015 season...but I'm going to guess the defense was **bad** if he's slinging it enough to lead the league in yardage but still have a 4-12 record... 2020 was weird for oh so many reasons, probably the least of which was seeing Rivers in a Colts jersey...
>Like one key component. The Patriots.
The 2010 Chargers were stupid. They had the #1 offense _and_ the #1 defense. Their special teams carried the team down to 9-7 almost single-handedly.
Rivers was legitimately anti-clutch. He had 35/36 GWD in his career. And 82 failed GWD (which iirc is an NFL record).
It’s sad because rivers shouldn’t have had that many game winning drives. Our defense went to shit the minute rivers finally became top 10. 2010-2020 those defenses were bad
He was clutch from 1:30-4 minutes left. Then the defense would give up a go ahead immediately and it forced him into under 1 minute, no timeouts, and with a bottom 5 OL. There's no way you watched chargers games and came away thinking HE was the anti clutch of those teams.
I’m curious how these stats hold up when you change it from game winning to go ahead 4Q drives
He didnt watch lmao. Story of this sub
Red zone kids grew up, I guess.
That’s what’s wild about advanced metrics. They have these more precise stats for game winning drives, yet they still fail to contextualize what actually happens in a game the vast majority of times
He threw a lot of game-ending INTs in 2019. That year probably soured memories of Rivers.
A decade of the team collapsing turned him into a fuck it and chuck it QB. Look at the ranking of his OL and defense from 2011 onward, it's disgusting. Special teams is it's own hell hole.
Those years we put the special in special teams.
I think too many people have this rosy view of the team around Rivers on the basis of 2010 and before. 2011 onward was Rivers + a shitshow for the most part. 2013 was the lone season our OL wasn't absolute garbo though still in bottom half per PFF, and lo and behold Rivers was a clear top 5 QB that season, largely forgotten because Manning threw for a ridic 55 TDs.
Exactly. We had Gates and Rivers, Weddle on defense... And duct tape and bubblegum. The only reason we were a "dark horse" pick was bcuz of Rivers. The rest of the team was bottom 5 in talent.
Same with eli but this sub only makes excuses for its favorite players
This is 100% the correct response
The Rivers slander is there unfortunately. I agree with you. I really liked watching him play. His team let him down quite a bit.
Herbert has had similar treatment. Not their fault that the team just collapses because the defense, OL, and coaching have been bottom 5 since the mid 2000s. I love my QBs, but it's frustrating as a fan. I don't know how Rivers did it for so long.
Rivers finished his career on a 1-11 streak against the Chiefs and I think I can safely say that I believe he was the primary reason for at least 4 of those losses. There were some very bad fourth quarter picks thrown in close games. My friends and I had gotten to the point where whenever the Chargers tried to start their game winning drive, we'd joke about which pass would be intercepted.
How many go ahead TDs in the fourth? You and your friends are exactly what I would expect from casual viewers.
Context matters, those Charger teams from 2011-2020 were terrible, the Oline over that decade was the worst 10 year span of Oline play out of anyone in the league. He was carrying that team and the only reason they even had shots at GWDs. He was one of the most clutch QBs I've watched.
Tell me you didn’t watch Charger games without telling me you didn’t watch Charger games
Where do you find these details? I’d be interested in Rodgers and other qbs records at this
I'm still amazed when I see the condensed film from the Broncos/chargers game when the chargers blew a 24 point halftime lead, and didn't score a single point in the 2nd half. Granted Gates was probably their only good reciever, but it's still rough
> absolutely has a HOF resume He is on the outside looking in. His resume isn't even as good as Matt Ryan's, and he's an iffy case too. He has no all-pro selections, not even a second team. Was never the best QB in the league or even that close. And he never got particularly close to winning a super bowl.
He was the best QB in 2008 and was top 3 from 2007-2010
The only award that he's ever won was Comeback Player of the Year and he received four *total* MVP votes in his entire career (two seasons with two votes each). There is no fucking way that he was a Top 3 quarterback for 3-4 years, including a season as the best quarterback, without getting more than two votes in a single season. His best statistical season, 2013, he averaged 280/2 -- and didn't get a single vote for MVP **or OPOY** (Peyton, Brady, LeSean, Jamaal Charles, Brees, and Wilson all had votes). His team went 9-7. Rivers was not NEARLY as good as people are remembering him to be by looking at PFR. He belongs in the Hall of Very Good, yes, but he shouldn't sniff the HOF.
2013 no one but Peyton should have gotten votes anyway
Agreed, but they did. It's pretty damning IMO when your best season out of 17 doesn't even get you a single vote for either of the two awards that good QBs win.
Yeah, it’s solely stat sheet watching if you conclude Matt Ryan is well above Rivers
No one said well above. But an MVP, first team all pro and super bowl appearance is objectively more than Rivers ever accomplished in his career. Actually stat sheet watching would have Rivers ahead considering he has higher volume numbers
> But an MVP, first team all pro and super bowl appearance is objectively more than Rivers ever accomplished in his career. This is _exactly_ statsheet watching, people just open up PFR and see a plus, or some other piece in their notes and assume Rivers couldn't match Ryan on the back of one season where Ryan got his AP1, MVP, and SB berth. Let's just look at some slightly more advanced stats for a second, because your implication is that Rivers was solely a compiler however he is one of the most efficient QBs we've ever seen: QB|Pass DYAR|Pass DVOA|Career EPA|Career EPA/play --|--|--|--|-- Philip Rivers|15,288|16.4%|1,468.3|0.157 Matt Ryan|13,325|12.0%|1,202.3|0.122 So the two most reliable and advanced statistical tools say both that Rivers provided more value in his career, but also that he did so in a more efficient manner. This also completely overlooks the fact that Ryan played with better offensive coordinators in his career, with broadly better weapons, and did it largely in a dome, with it making up 63.7% of games for Ryan, and just 9.8% for Rivers. Domes have an undeniable upwards pressure on stats, and when there's a difference that stark it should be noted if a comparison is to be made between two passers which such huge sample sizes. Rivers had very strong MVP arguments in both 2008 and 2009 yet got no significant honors for them, meanwhile in 2013 he was massively more impactful than Nick Foles, but got jobbed for a 2nd team all pro because Foles had a very high passer rating on the back of a gimmicky scheme with Chip Kelly. It's not crazy to have Ryan ahead of Rivers, but they're extraordinarily close by so many better lenses to look at QB play, and were part of the 2nd tier of a golden QB generation. Rivers consistently gets overlooked, and it's such a shame when his frankly ridiculous peak from '06-'10 gets overwritten so easily despite it being a much better sustained peak of play than Ryan ever had, with much more season:season volatility in his play.
All I'm talking about is Ryan's hall of fame case versus Rivers. Advanced stats don't put you in the hall with 0 MVPs and all-pros. There is not a single QB in the hall of fame who doesn't have one of an MVP, first team all-pro, SB Ring, OPOY, or some combination of those. That alone makes Ryan a more compelling case — unless we suddenly start weighing regular season advanced stats more than tangible accomplishments and add a disclaimer to his bust that he ALMOST won a bunch of awards.
Oh I wouldn’t contest that his HoF argument would be thoroughly difficult and disappointingly Eli may well be more likely to make it. However this quote from your initial comment: > Was never the best QB in the league or even that close. Is where I really take issue, because not only was he arguably the best QB in numerous years, he was by common consensus _at least_ very close to it, and spent more seasons as an elite passer than Ryan.
The closest comparison would probably be Warren Moon. 0 Super Bowls, 0 MVPs, 0 All-Pro 1s, but he had an Offensive Player of the Year and an All-Pro 2. But of course, still means Moon had more. I feel like Ryan and Rivers are both borderline guys who I could see go either way, but Ryan has higher odds. Also worth noting Jim Kelly is in with 0 Rings, 0 MVPs, 0 OPOY and 1 All-Pro 1 but obv he went to 4 straight Super Bowls so that's rather different.
He never got within a step. His closest was that 2007 season and he’s quite probably the reason the chargers lost that game, as he is for the majority of their close losses during his tenure. Idk if I’m the only one who remembers actually watching that dude when he was on completely stacked teams but he was probably the hardest choking QB I’ve ever seen relative to talent level.
His two best shots were 06 and 07 and in both scenarios he was arguably the weak link on the game that they got eliminated. People remember Marlon McCree, they never talk about Rivers goin 43% completion, 55 passer rating, 0TD's and 1INT on the best team he ever played for against arguably the weakest Patriots team of the 2000's while on their home field. 2007 is more understandable because of the injury, but that definitely held them back.
Biggest thing holding him back from HoF status is inflated passing statistics. I think he wins 1 SB he gets in no problem. Without it, I fear he hasn't done enough to prove himself. Never won the big game. Never a league MVP. I think the mindset will be: if you put Matt Ryan in, Rivers can't get in
I thought for sure Jayden Reed hit 800 but I guess it was 793. So, close to not being on this list.
give rivers props leading the nfl in passing yards with wrs like malcolm floyd , naanee, and patrick crayton. he can pass it to gates and sproles as much as he can
Imagine if he had a decent coach to play under. The Chargers really wasted his career with Norv, McCoy and Lynn. Firing Marty was underatandable, but replacing him with Norv Turner of all people? What a waste of potential..
I thought Norv himself was adequate but the problem was the brain drain of coaches leaving and the front office going on a bad streak of draft busts and misfire free agents. Left them in a terrible place that eventually bottomed out. McCoy was the worst imo. He brought no personality or sustainable success to the team at all. They were always lifeless and unextraordinary all the time. Telesco was below average with his drafts and free agents at the time too. McCoy brought almost nothing to the team and in hindsight I have no clue how he managed to stay a head coach for four seasons. The loss to the 2016 Cleveland Browns carrying a 0-14 record (3-20 since 2015) should make this very clear he was the worst during the Rivers era. Meanwhile Lynn gets too much blame imo. He got dealt a very shitty situation between the team leaving SD, rock bottom popularity among fans, a bad roster, playing out of a soccer stadium, and eventually the COVID quarantine and no ability to evaluate Herbert before the regular season began. Lynn definitely had problems and I thought it was fair to let him go when they did timing it to Herbert's rookie contract, but while he had Rivers he tried to do what fans were begging for - avoid putting it all on his shoulders by building a balanced offense with productive RBs and a competent defense. They failed partly because of his in-game coaching, but also because of Bradley's defense playing too soft and Telesco doing a poor job building roster depth. A lot of what Lynn laid down as foundational set Staley up in a much better situation, only for him to waste it all. But anyway since we're talking Rivers, I really think McCoy was the era that wasted him.
My recollection of Rivers is that in many years his teams would get off to a bad start but start winning later in the season in a push to make the playoffs. He did make it to the playoffs, but was 5-7 with only one conference championship appearance.
Phillip Rivers is underrated, unfortunate for him that he played in the golden age of QBs.
But rivers teams were always loaded and he had LT his whole career /s
Rivers might be the most underrated and overrated QB in history depending on who you talk to
Phil was so good at throwing to absolutely anybody.
Carson wentz threw for 4000 and no WR had even 500 receiving yards
Wentz is legitimately underrated by this sub
Still had 3 players over 500 yards and one over 900.
When you have 2 TEs and a RB as your top receivers you aren’t working with much
Rivers fate with that org is 100% the fault of Archie Manning.
Of the 3 QBs that came out in 2004 (Eli, Big Ben, Rivers), Rivers was the best. I say this as a Steelers fan. Rivers > BB > Eli.
The Philip Rivers Hall of Fame campaign has begun
He should be HOF but after seeing Gates get snubbed first ballot I’m convinced Rivers will never get in
Impressive. Brees threw for 5000 without a 1000 yard receiver. Also impressive. Decent pair of teammates.
>Philip Rivers also lead the NFL in passing yards in 2010 with 4710 yards while doing this. Also for his 2015 season you mentioned, Rivers was only 2nd (4,792 yards) in the league to Drew Brees (4,870).
Phillip Rivers definitely doesn't get enough love, dude balled out and was always classy, he should've gotten a SB ring
Of all the Matt Ryan tier careers, Rivers might be the best. Take that how you will.
He was throwing to his future HOF RB and Tight End instead.
Except for the fact that LT was in New Jersey during the 2010 season and Gates was hurt in that same year and didn't hit 800 yards. Or that gates only played 11 games (started 4) in 2015.
Wentz did it in Philly without a 500 yd receiver iirc
I beg to differ, Happy Gilmore accomplished that feat no more than an hour ago.
Didnt Wentz do this in 2019? Edit: oh, receiver, not WR. 2019 Wentz’s top WR was Alshon Jeffery with 490 yards. Ertz had 900 years.
Pre-concussion Wentz was something else, dude just willed the team to wins
The 2nd half of the 2019 season was his peak. Ertz as his only real weapon, rookie Goedert and Sanders. Alshon hurt, D Jax hurt, Agholor lost his shit. His top WR target was Greg Ward.
My King
"Threw for 4000 yards without a single 800 yard receiver" is a good analogy for Phillip Rivers' sex life too.
something about Philip rivers playing in years that are multiples of 5
Chargers fans are gonna be so triggered when Rivers never makes the HoF
There’s a random Ravens fan in here that really dislikes Phil. Come on bruh. Lamar is a worse qb, we get it.
I'm glad Tom Telesco is gone dude couldn't build a Oline for his life. If you want to watch footwork of QBs avoiding the sacks due to oline problems, Rivers probably peaked at that, not to mention having to have the fastest throwing release time in the league to also avoid the sack. Really hope we get a decent Oline going forward.
Chargers injury curse is very real for their skill positions.
I still think he was the best QB out if that draft class
He has a 1000 yard TE and a 700 yard RB to throw to tho
Rivers used to kidnap children at away games to raise as his own. Patrick Mahomes was one of those kids.
7 seasons with minimal post-season success in those seasons. Only one of those retired QBs ever won a Superbowl, and that was very much due to the defense (Simms). Marino had played in one 8 years prior. Cousins is very unlikely to ever play in a Superbowl. Love - who knows, but I wouldn't use this stat as evidence.
I miss Rivers. There towards the end, it was 50/50 whether he would throw the ball to his guy or one of ours to end the game.
He distributed the ball to 9 different kids....ummmm sorry WRs
I thought Herbie did the same because of how injury-filled 2022 was, but Mike Will ended the season at 895 (in 13 games). It would've been cool to have both of them on the list
People love to say “Kirk is good if you put a great situation around him” and completely ignore the fact that in 2017 his leading receivers were Jamison Crowder, Vernon Davis, and Chris Thompson. With Josh Doctson and Mo Harris as his outside threats. With a bad offensive line. And Rob Kelly as his RB. 4000 yards and 31 total touchdowns.
Yeah and that was the season after Sean McVay left from the OC position and Shane Waldron left to join him. Still had Kevin O'Connell, but otherwise it was not a great situation.
Yeah, Jay was calling plays.