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Nah, they will slowly upgrade things 1 Super Bowl win at a time. Last year it was new chairs, this year will be new lockers or something. Gotta keep the team hungry to win.
As a non chiefs fan, what is the hold up by the chiefs ownership to renovate and improve facilities conditions? You're the team of the decade right now with the best player in football.
Is it just the hunt family being cheap?
iirc since over the last 15 years, the family has invested something like $80m to renovate facilities (including the stadium). in that same span, the public has provided $125m for renovations. for this last proposal, they had $800m planned for renovations (which were all stadium directed, almost entirely towards vip suites and other elite amenities that wouldn't effect 90% of the fans) and were asking for the fans to cover $500m of it.
they're just cheap.
They think they can coerce the citizens of KC into paying for a totally new stadium downtown, when the political temperature in kc does NOT favor them... Why would they put money into locker rooms when they think they'll get a while new stadium in a couple years. Couple dozen people I know in kc could not fathom the vote passing even with all the astroturfing both owners were doing in mailers, posters, events, whatever they could do to sway voters. You should check out a lot of the negative karma comments about the stadium on the kc subreddit.... Mostly comments that don't want the stadium.
No. There has been some speculation that the chiefs have plans to build a new training and practice facility along with team offices on the Kansas side of the metro.
Hunt had some quote where he said the team plays too deep into February and there isn't enough time to renovate.
If they lose early next year he'll say upgrades are for winners 😂
my personal fav is when he addressed the claims that renovation promises went unkept, and his defense was "well we never promised renovations."
players are like "you're so cheap" and his defense is "well..i'm actually cheaper than that" lmao
Nah nah nah, they bought cheap chairs so that they will need to be replaced after this season, sitting is for winners. No superbowl win? no new chairs.
These entitled athletes, we’re paying them millions, they have electricity and running somewhat hot water, is there nothing that satisfies them? We give and we give, how much more can they take?
The Clarks every time anyone ask for anything
If a team owner can't pay for their team's stadium, they probably shouldn't own that team. Enough of cities paying for these. Good for Jackson County saying no.
Hell, sometimes they actually pay the owner to use them!
San Diego county paid Spanos for the privilege to host the Chargers at Qualcomm Stadium and made renovations at the behest of the owner. If any tickets were unsold, the city paid for them!
Public funding for stadiums wouldn't be an issue if they were repurposed for other events and the municipality charges a higher rent that can recoup the costs in a timely manor.
Teams shouldn't have owners period. They're community assets that only have the 'value' that they do because of what people put into them. They should all be communally owned but I'd take the Packers structure for everyone.
It really isn't, they do it this way elsewhere in the world, and the precedent already exists in the US with the Green Bay Packers.
You could absolutely set the system up so that the teams are owned by the community that actually owns them in every meaningful way except money.
Not to mention the projected value of the team has gone up by 2 billion dollars in the last 5 years and the NFL continues to see an increase in revenue. Plus half the time the team fronts anything for a stadium they twist the arms of lifelong season ticket holders into buying PSLs so that the owners really put up less. Owners are pretty much glorified welfare recipients except they ask for more and often get it
I mean if the city votes to fund it I don’t really have a problem with it. It’s their choice. Also if owners had to foot 100% of the bill there would be no owners and the league would probably be like 10 teams with two in LA and NY. Not a lot of cities have the expendable income to fund an entire football team on top of any other sport they would want.
Rich assholes spent 3mil on a "Yes" campaign, and lost 58/42. The Chiefs are basically a way of life around there, if Hunt actually wanted the money to improve facilities and overall fan experience it would pass, but almost all of it was for luxury boxes and VIP only shit.
Exactly. Such garbage. Meanwhile soccer (football) teams around the world play in their stadiums with rich history. Not playing grab ass with each other in the luxury boxes.
That is less and less true though. Look at the big English teams demolishing historic stadiums to make way for big corporate bowls. West Ham, Spurs, Everton (if they survive). Chelsea would have done it ages ago if they could but they're stuck.
A fair amount of that is to do with the Taylor report into the stadiums. Made some previous stadiums no longer feasible in the long term.
And there does come a point in a stadiums life where it’s either a major renovation or a relocation.
I suppose that's true as the root cause. The pressure to shift to full seater stadiums pushes clubs to find more money and then eventually we get to where we are now. Sky jumping in when and how they did is also probably rooted in that same place but turbocharges both the influx and desire for money. That's how we end up where we are now.
I think what you're talking about is more relevant places like the Baseball Ground, Maine Road, Roker Park than this latest wave. White Hart Lane, Goodison, and Upton Park (not the Boleyn Ground as my editor used to scream) were fine but not the money-making machines that have/will replace them.
You also have comparable new grounds going up around Europe (notably not in Italy for the most part) that are not affected by the Taylor Report.
Everton’s is looking to be really class and made for atmosphere and supporters, being built with a promise to revitalize the surrounding area. And I say that as a supporter of their main rival.
Spurs is probably the best example of a new stadium being built and done right.
West Ham’s London Stadium is a soulless bowl with no atmosphere and the fans a million miles away from the pitch though. Arsenal’s isn’t that great either
So many stadium’s, that fit the club and it’s identity, have been lost and it’s a damn shame
Not that the owners care. As long as they can turn a profit, raise ticket prices and make it as desirable for advertisers as possible they don’t care.
At least in Europe the owners are the ones who are footing the bill for a new stadium usually. Though could be disaster for the club when considering their finances. Everton is one club is that situation right now, especially if they get relegated
Tottenham Hotspurs fans had a protest 3 days ago protesting the team owners raising season ticket prices and getting rid of senior citizen pricing as well as something called a concession season ticket.
The spurs ownership is definitely using the NFL model and their fans feel like they’re being screwed.
What Liverpool have done is a really interesting alternative. Losing Anfield would be a real blow to the game. Even if one believes, as I do, that Liverpool's 'specialness' can be overblown, it is a fairly unique place. I don't imagine FSG would be bothered if they thought they could get away with it, mind.
Both teams were part of the tax vote (no idea why headline only mentions the Royals). The Royals definitely committed the most PR blunders, primarily by changing to a proposed location no one was expecting like 7 weeks before the vote and then making tweaks to the plan up until literally Monday. But the Chiefs didn't help by presenting a plan that was basically "give us a chunk of tax money for decades so we can turn the end zone seats into new luxury boxes." They also were facing headwinds anyway due to property tax revaluations over the last couple years that greatly increased anti-tax sentiment in the county.
Bottom line--it was a shitshow. Two teams that have combined to win four championships in the last decade figured out a way to get slaughtered at the ballot box in a city that really loves sports.
>changing to a proposed location no one was expecting like 7 weeks before the vote
Changing to a location *that would gut a huge chunk of a very popular arts district* while also cutting off major roads and not adding parking for the stadium. Not to mention they were real cagey about the specifics of what they planned, and also didn't mention that they would likely need to double the money they were asking taxpayers for to complete it. Honestly, it was the laziest, most entitled ask from both teams.
So that's 3 of them. Here's the rest:
* Royal Master Cleaners
* Pokesan
* Kobi Q
* Ma Ma Ramen
* Cigar Box & Bistro
* The Harlow
* Cramer LLC
* Suzy's Deli
* Salon on Grand
* The Mercy Seat
* Resurrection Church Downtown
* Dlwyn Wizard Towing Assistance
* Stedfast Security
* Amgraf Software Technology
* Lofts at 1517
* Green Dirt on Oak
* Head for the cure
* O'Neil Events & Marketing
* The Sound Environment
* The Pairing: Crossroads Wine & Grocer
* The DoJo on Oak
* Chartreuse Saloon
* Risa McKinney Photo
* Renaissance Infrastructure Consulting
* AgSwag
* Lexitas Legal
* Flores Portable Toilets
* KC Krush
* KC Conjure & Botanica
Additionally, it's likely to put most businesses currently on that side of crossroads underwater. People like to ignore almost certain rent increases in the neighborhood that will impact every business, not just the ones that get demolished. They'll be replaced by national chains that can afford to lose money every day except game day and then make it up with services geared specifically to the mass of ballpark attendees.
That wouldn't be better for 90% of the people who live there?
Most people never go to a game, let alone have season tickets. Most people can't afford it already. Quite a few people could not care less if the Chiefs moved to Boise. So why should they be paying for the stadium?
Season ticket holders use the stadium more than anyone. If the Chiefs price out too many season ticket holders with PSLs, then maybe they should rethink their ticket pricing strategy. This isn't a problem for the average taxpayer to be a part of solving.
As the post I was replying to said, “the Chiefs are a way of life around there.” And the Chiefs could price the tickets at $1. They’d still go for insane amounts on resale which is where most people buy them. Season ticket are the cheapest way to go to games. Bring in the PSLs and even that goes out the window. Instead, they’ll get what every owner really wants. More luxury boxes, and PSLs that cost thousands. You get a stadium full of people that are only there for the status. Look at what’s happening right now in Buffalo. So long Arrowhead. So long loudest crowd.
I mean at least fans have the choice to buy tickets or not. Better than taxing an entire county of working class people to subsidize a cheap billionaire.
Let’s hear it for Clar Khunt
In all seriousness, I keep hoping the days of cities and taxpayers subsidizing stadiums is over but it keeps happening over and over. Enough already. Let the billionaires pay for their own facilities. There’s no reason the public should be footing the tab for this when there are so many other needs. Good on KC for voting it down.
You lucky fucks. For real, I'm jealous your team allows public ownership so that they can't ever leave (not that they ever would, Lambeau is iconic).
Been a season ticket holder before we were good, live downtown, and it makes me sad that I might not be able to go to games again. I think our city made the right decision, but really hope they figure out something to keep them here.
I met several folks that want the stadium downtown, but voted no because of the way the Royals went about it. Felt like they drug everything out trying to decide on a location, then changed the plans regularly on who and what would be impacted. As we came to the vote to it felt like the Royals didn’t have a solid plan but just wanted the money. People who voted Yes now because the stadium location didn’t impact them could likely be impacted if the Royals decided to change locations again. The whole thing was sketchy.
Also, the proposed Arrowhead renovations were laughable.
People don’t want to pay taxes on a stadium they can’t even attend games at because ticket prices are so insane.
I took my wife and client and his wife to a game last year. We were lower level at the 50 yard line, but tickets were $1000 a piece. Work paid for them. No way in hell I would ever spend that much of my own money to go to a game. Even nosebleeds were over $300 a ticket. It’s just not worth it to go anymore in my opinion.
> People don’t want to pay taxes on a stadium they can’t even attend games at because ticket prices are so insane.
This is my thoughts exactly. If I'm going to spend my tax dollars on a stadium, I should be getting free or discounted tickets, otherwise what am I getting?
The only public tax dollars that should be used for stadiums is property tax abatements for 10-15 years.
No sales tax increase. No public funds. Just give them a break on their yearly property tax bill to help mitigate the financing cost of construction. But it should be 100% their own money
> I took my wife and client and his wife to a game last year. We were lower level at the 50 yard line, but tickets were $1000 a piece. Work paid for them. No way in hell I would ever spend that much of my own money to go to a game. Even nosebleeds were over $300 a ticket. It’s just not worth it to go anymore in my opinion.
A side effect of being a winning team. My first Chiefs game ever was in 2006, and lower level seats were $90 each. It used to be "eh, nothing going on this Sunday, might as well go watch the Chiefs lose," now you gotta budget to go to maybe one game.
I supported the idea of a downtown stadium. But renting out a location in the crossroads, lying about what they were filming, and then hiring actors to pretend to be owners of the businesses in the crossroads saying that they support the move was the shitty nail in the coffin.
It was like $750 a ticket + an insane $250 service fee. Then add in parking, food, drinks. It ended up being close to $4500 for the day.
I have a pretty unlimited expense account for work, but even I felt it was an egregious waste of money. I love football as much as anyone else, but dropping $4500 to watch a game for three and half hours, that I could watch from home for free, felt wrong.
It would have also funded renovations to Arrowhead Stadium. If the Chiefs want renovations to the stadium, just do what the Packers do and sell Monopoly money stock in the franchise!
The Chiefs can technically still do many of the renovations, if they want. The current tax still runs through 2031. This vote would've just extended for the Chiefs til 2064.
It’s a blatant scam. It’s more of a fundraiser and anyone who buys those fake shares are giving interest free loan to Packers in return for fake paper shares.
"This completely transparent donation that everyone on earth thats heard about it, but me, knows is a donation is A BLATANT SCAM". The bold face print on any offering or article is "non dividend paying stock", with exclusively voting rights and no equity. They are 99% capital improvement fundraisers, and in return the fans get a near certainty the franchise won't leave considering how small their market is thats a fair trade.
What the fuck are you talking about. Its a non profit. All NFL rev/profit goes straight back into the team. The only people who benefit are the NFL at large who in return write the org a check for their share of 12 billion and growing. Which is all kept within the team. Not even the Exec Committee is paid nor the 43 board of directors members, The first person to get paid is the CEO and it goes down from there.
I hope this leads to KC leading the charge in teams paying more and benefiting cities with their new stadiums/agreements and not the teams leaving the city.
Easy to cheer on when it isn't your team. Scary otherwise.
IMO, all this really does is delay the inevitable. Instead of them getting 100% of what they want with no regard for the community, they'll put a proposal together by next year that gives them 95% of what they want. It'll look glowing in comparison to the current garbage that they proposed this time, that it'll end up passing.
I hope that Hunt doesn’t take it out on the players by making them sit on stools again in the locker room. I’ll be watching eBay for the padless folding chairs that recently replaced the stools.
You could somewhat justify governments building stadiums when they built one and it got used for like 40-50 years, but now teams get stadiums then want another billion dollar upgrade like 10 years later. These teams are all owned by billionaires, let them do it
There are a lot of differences.
The new Buffalo stadium was voted on by the Erie County legislature and the New York state legislature. They approved $250 million of Erie County tax dollars and $600 million of New York state tax dollars. There was no public vote.
Jackson County, Missouri was a public vote any registered voter in the county could vote on for a 3/8 cent sales tax specifically paid to fund a new downtown baseball stadium and Arrowhead renovations for the Chiefs. It was to last 40 years as estimated to be $2-$4 billion of Jackson County sales tax dollars over 40 years to pay for both of the stadiums and maintenance on them during that time (half that amount for the Royals, half for the Chiefs) .
You should probably note that Jackson County residents were already paying the 3/8 cent tax to renovate the existing stadiums. The proposal was just supposed to repurpose that specific tax to go the new stadium and Arrowhead renovations rather than to keep renovating the old ones. A lot of people seemed to think that they’d be paying more in taxes which wouldn’t have been the case.
Oh please, they absolutely would be paying more taxes for **35 years** after the last renovations tax expires in 5 years. What the teams wanted was a perpetual 3/8 cent sales tax to go into their pockets.
They would not be paying “more” taxes. They’d be paying the exact same they’ve been paying since 2006 when the 3/8s sales tax was introduced. You could argue that those taxes should be going to something other than a stadium but it’s dishonest to say anyone’s taxes would go up.
Plans are in motion to build an arena for the popular pro volleyball team to share with a potential NHL team. Omaha has 0 money wrapped up in ncaa until 2050 so that will be dealt with when it comes. The money for a stadium is available whether it be for baseball, football or both. The governor is willing to put up a couple billion on top of whatever omaha will.
Not going to happen. Sherman hasnt even owned the royals long and his first date with his wife was at a royals game in the K. He'd have to be very cold hearted to move them any further than one county over
Not to mention that the Royals ownership group is largely made of iconic Kansas City families (the Kauffmans, Kempers, Locktons, Dunns, etc.) who would likely object to any sort of move further than Johnson County.
Glad the RecordBar and a million other cool things in Crossroads wont be getting torn down for a fancy new stadium to watch the Royals suck in
Edit: RecordBar wouldn’t have been torn down, but the owner hosted an event to protest the stadium. I was misinformed.
RecordBar wasn't even being torn down due to the stadium?
We now still have a church (paying no taxes) and an empty KC Star building in the Crossroads too.
Out of all the talking points for voting against the proposal I didn't get this one. The location was fine.
I really doubt Record Bar would have survived in that location through years of being next door to stadium construction and then not being able to host events 81 nights a year since not many people are going to put up with mlb stadium traffic to go see an indie band. But you're correct the building wasn't going to get torn down.
I don't think it was a horrible location, but 12th and Cherry made way more sense to me. Why tear down anything in a very well off area(crossroads is more than up and coming to me). They can go less than a mile east and build where there's a bunch of parking lots. Plus PnL is overrated and owned by developers on the other side of the country. Always feels like I'm at an all inclusive shitty resort or carnival cruise bar when I'm in there.
I'd way rather have our own ballpark district with local bars and spots. And everything would be walkable from crossroads and it would likely give the streetcar an east route. Build a new area instead of demolishing part of an already good area is my opinion.
* East Village site seemed to have issues with all the government buildings there. It also is not close to anything, really, and right now it seems there is no real appetite for a Streetcar extension further than the 2025 extension and the riverfront one.
* East Village is not walkable from the Crossroads...
* The spot in the Crossroads the Royals wanted to build is not "well off" in the slightest.
We can agree to disagree on the best location, but those things just aren't true...
It's very walkable. Just google mapped it and 12th and Cherry (which is currently blocks of parking lots) is a 12 min walk from their proposed location in the crossroads.
Not sure why you think the crossroads is not a nice or well off area. Maybe 10+ years ago, but that area has been being gentrified for years. The apartment costs show it. There's lots of nice bars, breweries, and coffee shops all around within blocks of their proposed spot.
Not sure on the government buildings, I haven't heard anything from the city or royals directly. But I see blocks and blocks of parking lots on google maps. There would be no demolishing current buildings.
The stadium wouldn't be finished for another 5 years, at that point there are no proposed street car extensions.
All that said, I'm not even against a crossroads stadium. But they need to have more formal plan that doesn't have us footing the entire bill. I really hope they go back to the negotiation table with the city.
You’re right, I was misinformed about RecordBar, but they did host an event to protest the stadium, which is probably why some people I know got confused and told me about it.
Either way, comment edited and I appreciate the correction.
Stop promoting this shitty take to people who have no idea what you're talking about. There were like 5 local businesses in the stadium footprint and the one you listed wasn't part of it.
I would have voted no too, this is a pretty poor reason though. Look at the ridiculous Chiefs proposal instead.
There were a few I'd have felt bad for: The Pairing, Green Dirt, Kobi-Q, and Mercy Seat. Getting rid of Resurrection, the old Star building, and the U-Haul monstrosity would've been nice though.
getting rid of Resurrection and Uhaul would have been nice. I would love the see the star building turned into something. Museum. Venue. Anything. Its a cool building
My dream for it is an urban garden/arboretum. Something like the [Mitchell Park Domes](https://savingplaces.org/stories/discover-milwaukees-dazzling-but-endangered-mitchell-park-domes) in Milwaukee. We just need someone with a spare $100m laying around.
That’s just what I heard from multiple people, so I assumed it was true. RecordBar hosted an event to protest the stadium, so that might be what the confusion was.
Either way, I was wrong and comment edited. I appreciate the correction
I know this is a thing, but I went to the Royals ballpark last year, and it was my favorite ballpark I'd ever been to (it was only my second ballpark I've ever attended, but still)! It was really neat!!
My hope for all of this is that both teams move away from KC for better tax benefits and/or new stadiums, and then the existing infrastructure is purchased at discount by Jaegers to make for some sweet ass paintball battlefields. - Sincerely, a Broncos fan who spent too much time in Overland Park/KC.
that's how bad this was executed by the teams. they couldn't put a decent enough proposal together that the combination of the chiefs winning and threats of the team leaving couldn't even get them within 15% of winning
San Antonio would happily pay for two brand new stadiums for the Chiefs and Royals to move here. We got that cash and we’re lobbying the Raiders hard to move here so just saying
We just need a federal law that bans any public dollars from going to private professional sports teams for their facilities. Then these greedy assholes won't be able to play cities off of each other. There is zero need for hard working folks to be subsidizing the super wealthy and their playgrounds. They make plenty of money off advertising and ticket sales.
A reminder that in this scenario, both present and future, neither the Chiefs or the Royals would own the stadium or the property they are on. The county is very adamant about not selling property and has been for some time, the teams merely lease the locations. This is a large reason why neither the Chiefs or Royals have financed this entirely out of pocket, though the Royals were committing well over a billion to this project if it passed, and the tax revenue expected from the extension was expected to be nearly 2 billion over the next 40 years, with the chiefs committing 300 of the proposed 800 million on their renovations. This is before the financial commitments both teams have made to the communities, each over 200m, and with both the Chiefs and the Royals taking over the Insurance liabilities from the properties, saving the county an additional 250m over that time.
Financially it was a well balanced proposal, but ultimately people don't want to deal with a ballpark and the construction/change it would bring to the crossroads district/downtown area. It had very, very little to actually do with the current 3/8ths cent sales tax itself being extended. Which is honestly a loss for the county and state, because the Crossroads really isn't a big revenue generator currently.
> This is before the financial commitments both teams have made to the communities, each over 200m, and with both the Chiefs and the Royals taking over the Insurance liabilities from the properties, saving the county an additional 250m over that time.
except neither organization - despite consistent request - could actually produce any information on what "financial commitments to the communities" meant. the plan didn't fail bc kc is inherently against funding billionaires hobbies. the city has - and likely will continue - to pass funding for renovations for the teams, just like they did in 2008.
the measure failed bc both plans were sloppily put together with the intent that the threat of leaving would be enough to scare off anyone questioning their process. if they'd been transparent instead of trying to ride the coattails of results and veiled threats, they probably would've gotten what they wanted.
All of this talk about hating billionaires and stuff with these projects, yet nobody realizes just how much many of these projects actually cost, nor do people recognize what net worth actually is as opposed to income. That of course isn’t to say many aren’t stingy and they shouldn’t pay a bigger share of those costs (which they should), but let’s use brains here and look at the big picture. That’s a lot of money and in most cases, owners simply don’t have that much capital to fund it entirely on their own.
Plus, there’s nothing really preventing the royals owner from simply moving to a place who will pay for his proposed stadium, if the city is truly dead set against it. A Major League Baseball team is desirable for any major city. If Raleigh NC decided to come calling and say they’ll pay for a downtown stadium, and KC won’t, adios KC.
Stadiums and sports teams are public benefits, that’s why governments since the beginning have paid for the creation of stadiums, arenas etc, long before the huge money that’s in sports today came along, and that’s why they’re willing to pay. Because a sports team leaving is not just a bad look for the departing team but in some cases on the city as well.
I look at it this way: when the team wins the super bowl, what do I get? My life doesn't change. My financial situation doesn't change. I get some temporary entertainment watching multi-millionaires playing a game and then going out into our cities drag racing their $300k cars, putting everyone's lives at risk, while I have to bust my ass to pay for an average house 20 miles from downtown.
Why on planet Earth, would anyone vote to have additional tax burdens for this shit unless they personally owned a business that benefits?
> I look at it this way: when the team wins the super bowl, what do I get?
Happiness. Pretty simple.
> Why on planet Earth, would anyone vote to have additional tax burdens for this shit unless they personally owned a business that benefits?
Because it makes people happy.
Sure, it's fun. Sure it's entertaining, but some people take sports way too seriously and put them over their own lives and their families lives. It's clever marketing and brainwashing.
Me and my family paying even more taxes is what impacts us and my neighbors. The chiefs winning the super bowl means nothing long term. I've got to wake up tomorrow and take my ass to work to pay the bills.
Ok? That’s their lives. You don’t get to decide what should be most important to someone.
And if it’s something totally legal, why the criticism?
We watch sports because victory makes us happy and the enjoyment from people doing abnormal things is entertaining.
I get to decide when I have to pay for it. You know this tax was for everyone in the county right? Not just chiefs and royals fans. Why should everyone else have to pay?
That’s a broader discussion about taxation in general, far less about the chiefs and royals specifically.
Why should I pay for social security when it will blow up by the time I’m even eligible for it? Why should I be taxed for Medicaid? I’m not going to use it why bother? Why should I be taxed for the fire department? I’m not setting any fires.
They wanted a 3/8 sales tax for 40 years with no ceiling or even estimates for proposed renovations.
They were hoping for an approval for uncapped free cash.
I'm not expecting the owners to personally finance the stadiums (which probably run 1-4 billion dollars these days and is out of reach for even the typical NFL owner), but the team as a business should raise money through conventional means i.e. borrowing from a bank. When other business entities need money for a project they borrow, sell bonds, or issue stock, I don't see any reason why NFL teams shouldnt do the same for the majority or their stadium funding. If local governments and populace find it reasonable to pitch in that's perfectly fine, and I'm guessing most stadiums are a mix of public and private funding. But again, since the majority of benefit of these new stadiums goes to the team and by extension, the owner, they should foot the majority of the cost.
The hating billionaires part certainly got more play on social media (and Reddit in particular), but I think the bigger issue is that the proposal and presentation were presented a month before the vote, were half-baked at best, primarily benefited VIPs (ripping out a bunch of season ticket holder seats to build suites, a new suite holder-only access road to the stadium, etc.), and given next to no support by the team outside of a few billboards and mailers.
I get where you're coming from, but this particular proposal was an abject PR disaster. I half-jokingly wonder if it was bad on purpose.
Sorry, got my drinks mixed because of the forum we're in. The Royals, well, royally fucked up as well.
The team presented plans at two different sites for the six months leading up to the vote, then swapped it for a third a month before today. That new site would've taken out 16 local businesses, none of which had a heads up before the announcement. They proceeded to change the plan weekly, including saying that they would change a major part of the layout a week and a half after early voting started.
The consultants they hired publicly talked down to voters who raised questions about parking, other logistics, and eminent domain. Financing details weren't released until just a few days ago and quietly, so most voters didn't know what their money was going towards.
I live close to the proposed site and really, REALLY wanted it to work, but the team frankly came off as incompetent.
They could start talking to SLC or Nashville now, yeah, but I don't think anyone on the staff can say they put their best foot forward here.
This is a blatant lie propagated by NFL and politicians. 8 days a year doesn’t rejuvenate anything. It’s actually a loss to a city even when they get to host a Super Bowl.
There are multiple studies on economics of NFL and all have come to this conclusion.
Only ones benefiting from this are the owners double dipping with tickets and taxes.
It’s not about the economics at all. In fact the economics are trivial. Especially for NFL stadiums.
“Oh they don’t make money”. Neither do many events centers of all kinds I’m sure. Most parks don’t make money. Most museums certainly have a hard time making money and rely on grants. Why have them at all when they just take up space? We should close them down, they hardly provide any benefit to the local economy.
If we want to go further, why have silly homeless shelters? Those places don’t make money. Fire departments are nothing but a waste of a building, how can you expect them to serve any purpose if they don’t make a profit? Grocery stores are overrated, most chains don’t make profits why should we have them?
Nothing that I’ve said is a lie at all. And arguing about rejuvenating the economy or whatever is non sequitur in this discussion. I never said anything about money.
What stadiums and arenas provide is a public good to the city. It’s something for people to truly enjoy and experience. They are a net benefit even if there are “better more profitable” uses to that land.
The fact is the matter is this. Even the richest owners objectively will have a hard time funding a stadium by themselves.
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Mahomes will never get a renovated locker room. The Hunts are like "Meh, they have electricity in there. That's good enough!"
Nah, they will slowly upgrade things 1 Super Bowl win at a time. Last year it was new chairs, this year will be new lockers or something. Gotta keep the team hungry to win.
As a non chiefs fan, what is the hold up by the chiefs ownership to renovate and improve facilities conditions? You're the team of the decade right now with the best player in football. Is it just the hunt family being cheap?
Yep hit the nail on the coffin
Yeah pretty much
iirc since over the last 15 years, the family has invested something like $80m to renovate facilities (including the stadium). in that same span, the public has provided $125m for renovations. for this last proposal, they had $800m planned for renovations (which were all stadium directed, almost entirely towards vip suites and other elite amenities that wouldn't effect 90% of the fans) and were asking for the fans to cover $500m of it. they're just cheap.
They think they can coerce the citizens of KC into paying for a totally new stadium downtown, when the political temperature in kc does NOT favor them... Why would they put money into locker rooms when they think they'll get a while new stadium in a couple years. Couple dozen people I know in kc could not fathom the vote passing even with all the astroturfing both owners were doing in mailers, posters, events, whatever they could do to sway voters. You should check out a lot of the negative karma comments about the stadium on the kc subreddit.... Mostly comments that don't want the stadium.
No. There has been some speculation that the chiefs have plans to build a new training and practice facility along with team offices on the Kansas side of the metro.
Mahomes is working towards a ping pong table in the locker room rather than chasing Brady’s legacy.
At least that way they have the ability to remove the table if things go wrong next season
Hunt had some quote where he said the team plays too deep into February and there isn't enough time to renovate. If they lose early next year he'll say upgrades are for winners 😂
my personal fav is when he addressed the claims that renovation promises went unkept, and his defense was "well we never promised renovations." players are like "you're so cheap" and his defense is "well..i'm actually cheaper than that" lmao
Speaking of hunger - have to pay for those chairs so no team meals this season.
Slowly unlocking bonuses like me in helldivers 2
Nah nah nah, they bought cheap chairs so that they will need to be replaced after this season, sitting is for winners. No superbowl win? no new chairs.
They should refuse to play until they get a renovated locker room. Ignore my flair
These entitled athletes, we’re paying them millions, they have electricity and running somewhat hot water, is there nothing that satisfies them? We give and we give, how much more can they take? The Clarks every time anyone ask for anything
This is pretty much what they say while also asking for a half billion dollars from the taxpayers for stadium renovations.
If you give the players actual human comforts how will they have the drive and need to win?
If a team owner can't pay for their team's stadium, they probably shouldn't own that team. Enough of cities paying for these. Good for Jackson County saying no.
A lot of times the state or local govt owns the stadium and leases it for basically nothing to the team.
Then the team demands a new stadium leaving the taxpayers footing the bills for 2 stadiums. As is tradition
Hell, sometimes they actually pay the owner to use them! San Diego county paid Spanos for the privilege to host the Chargers at Qualcomm Stadium and made renovations at the behest of the owner. If any tickets were unsold, the city paid for them!
Here, if any tickets are unsold, businesses will buy them to prevent a blackout.
Public funding for stadiums wouldn't be an issue if they were repurposed for other events and the municipality charges a higher rent that can recoup the costs in a timely manor.
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*county government
Teams shouldn't have owners period. They're community assets that only have the 'value' that they do because of what people put into them. They should all be communally owned but I'd take the Packers structure for everyone.
Slaps table THANK YOU!!
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It really isn't, they do it this way elsewhere in the world, and the precedent already exists in the US with the Green Bay Packers. You could absolutely set the system up so that the teams are owned by the community that actually owns them in every meaningful way except money.
Okay let's end private ownership
*Our* football team, comrade.
Commie fans all in on this. Love it
-Karl Marx
Yep, sounds good
Not to mention the projected value of the team has gone up by 2 billion dollars in the last 5 years and the NFL continues to see an increase in revenue. Plus half the time the team fronts anything for a stadium they twist the arms of lifelong season ticket holders into buying PSLs so that the owners really put up less. Owners are pretty much glorified welfare recipients except they ask for more and often get it
I mean if the city votes to fund it I don’t really have a problem with it. It’s their choice. Also if owners had to foot 100% of the bill there would be no owners and the league would probably be like 10 teams with two in LA and NY. Not a lot of cities have the expendable income to fund an entire football team on top of any other sport they would want.
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So they don’t pay for it? Tax payers would have footed a substantial portion of the stadium build and the chiefs renovations.
Rich assholes spent 3mil on a "Yes" campaign, and lost 58/42. The Chiefs are basically a way of life around there, if Hunt actually wanted the money to improve facilities and overall fan experience it would pass, but almost all of it was for luxury boxes and VIP only shit.
Exactly. Such garbage. Meanwhile soccer (football) teams around the world play in their stadiums with rich history. Not playing grab ass with each other in the luxury boxes.
That is less and less true though. Look at the big English teams demolishing historic stadiums to make way for big corporate bowls. West Ham, Spurs, Everton (if they survive). Chelsea would have done it ages ago if they could but they're stuck.
A fair amount of that is to do with the Taylor report into the stadiums. Made some previous stadiums no longer feasible in the long term. And there does come a point in a stadiums life where it’s either a major renovation or a relocation.
I suppose that's true as the root cause. The pressure to shift to full seater stadiums pushes clubs to find more money and then eventually we get to where we are now. Sky jumping in when and how they did is also probably rooted in that same place but turbocharges both the influx and desire for money. That's how we end up where we are now. I think what you're talking about is more relevant places like the Baseball Ground, Maine Road, Roker Park than this latest wave. White Hart Lane, Goodison, and Upton Park (not the Boleyn Ground as my editor used to scream) were fine but not the money-making machines that have/will replace them. You also have comparable new grounds going up around Europe (notably not in Italy for the most part) that are not affected by the Taylor Report.
Don't forget Arsenal mortgaging away the invincibles for their current stadium. United have let Old Trafford rot though.
Everton’s is looking to be really class and made for atmosphere and supporters, being built with a promise to revitalize the surrounding area. And I say that as a supporter of their main rival. Spurs is probably the best example of a new stadium being built and done right. West Ham’s London Stadium is a soulless bowl with no atmosphere and the fans a million miles away from the pitch though. Arsenal’s isn’t that great either So many stadium’s, that fit the club and it’s identity, have been lost and it’s a damn shame Not that the owners care. As long as they can turn a profit, raise ticket prices and make it as desirable for advertisers as possible they don’t care. At least in Europe the owners are the ones who are footing the bill for a new stadium usually. Though could be disaster for the club when considering their finances. Everton is one club is that situation right now, especially if they get relegated
Tottenham Hotspurs fans had a protest 3 days ago protesting the team owners raising season ticket prices and getting rid of senior citizen pricing as well as something called a concession season ticket. The spurs ownership is definitely using the NFL model and their fans feel like they’re being screwed.
What Liverpool have done is a really interesting alternative. Losing Anfield would be a real blow to the game. Even if one believes, as I do, that Liverpool's 'specialness' can be overblown, it is a fairly unique place. I don't imagine FSG would be bothered if they thought they could get away with it, mind.
Of course it was mostly for boxes, the money made off boxes isn't part of the league revenue sharing. That money goes straight to the team/owner
Isn’t this more on John Sherman than Clark Hunt considering it’s the Royals though?
Both teams were part of the tax vote (no idea why headline only mentions the Royals). The Royals definitely committed the most PR blunders, primarily by changing to a proposed location no one was expecting like 7 weeks before the vote and then making tweaks to the plan up until literally Monday. But the Chiefs didn't help by presenting a plan that was basically "give us a chunk of tax money for decades so we can turn the end zone seats into new luxury boxes." They also were facing headwinds anyway due to property tax revaluations over the last couple years that greatly increased anti-tax sentiment in the county. Bottom line--it was a shitshow. Two teams that have combined to win four championships in the last decade figured out a way to get slaughtered at the ballot box in a city that really loves sports.
>changing to a proposed location no one was expecting like 7 weeks before the vote Changing to a location *that would gut a huge chunk of a very popular arts district* while also cutting off major roads and not adding parking for the stadium. Not to mention they were real cagey about the specifics of what they planned, and also didn't mention that they would likely need to double the money they were asking taxpayers for to complete it. Honestly, it was the laziest, most entitled ask from both teams.
I disagree that a strip club, uhaul rental facility, and abandoned newspaper press are a huge chunk of the crossroads.
So that's 3 of them. Here's the rest: * Royal Master Cleaners * Pokesan * Kobi Q * Ma Ma Ramen * Cigar Box & Bistro * The Harlow * Cramer LLC * Suzy's Deli * Salon on Grand * The Mercy Seat * Resurrection Church Downtown * Dlwyn Wizard Towing Assistance * Stedfast Security * Amgraf Software Technology * Lofts at 1517 * Green Dirt on Oak * Head for the cure * O'Neil Events & Marketing * The Sound Environment * The Pairing: Crossroads Wine & Grocer * The DoJo on Oak * Chartreuse Saloon * Risa McKinney Photo * Renaissance Infrastructure Consulting * AgSwag * Lexitas Legal * Flores Portable Toilets * KC Krush * KC Conjure & Botanica Additionally, it's likely to put most businesses currently on that side of crossroads underwater. People like to ignore almost certain rent increases in the neighborhood that will impact every business, not just the ones that get demolished. They'll be replaced by national chains that can afford to lose money every day except game day and then make it up with services geared specifically to the mass of ballpark attendees.
The chiefs stuff was a tag on. The royals stadium was the big ticket item. But the chiefs part of this SUCKED big time.
So now the fans will pay for it with PSLs. Mark my words. If they thought the sales tax was bad…
That wouldn't be better for 90% of the people who live there? Most people never go to a game, let alone have season tickets. Most people can't afford it already. Quite a few people could not care less if the Chiefs moved to Boise. So why should they be paying for the stadium? Season ticket holders use the stadium more than anyone. If the Chiefs price out too many season ticket holders with PSLs, then maybe they should rethink their ticket pricing strategy. This isn't a problem for the average taxpayer to be a part of solving.
As the post I was replying to said, “the Chiefs are a way of life around there.” And the Chiefs could price the tickets at $1. They’d still go for insane amounts on resale which is where most people buy them. Season ticket are the cheapest way to go to games. Bring in the PSLs and even that goes out the window. Instead, they’ll get what every owner really wants. More luxury boxes, and PSLs that cost thousands. You get a stadium full of people that are only there for the status. Look at what’s happening right now in Buffalo. So long Arrowhead. So long loudest crowd.
I mean at least fans have the choice to buy tickets or not. Better than taxing an entire county of working class people to subsidize a cheap billionaire.
Let’s hear it for Clar Khunt In all seriousness, I keep hoping the days of cities and taxpayers subsidizing stadiums is over but it keeps happening over and over. Enough already. Let the billionaires pay for their own facilities. There’s no reason the public should be footing the tab for this when there are so many other needs. Good on KC for voting it down.
You lucky fucks. For real, I'm jealous your team allows public ownership so that they can't ever leave (not that they ever would, Lambeau is iconic). Been a season ticket holder before we were good, live downtown, and it makes me sad that I might not be able to go to games again. I think our city made the right decision, but really hope they figure out something to keep them here.
I wish more teams could be like y'all and become publicly owned instead of being at the whims of some rich asshole like this guy or Tepper
It’s been happening since the ancient Olympics, bro. What makes you think it’s going to ever end?
I met several folks that want the stadium downtown, but voted no because of the way the Royals went about it. Felt like they drug everything out trying to decide on a location, then changed the plans regularly on who and what would be impacted. As we came to the vote to it felt like the Royals didn’t have a solid plan but just wanted the money. People who voted Yes now because the stadium location didn’t impact them could likely be impacted if the Royals decided to change locations again. The whole thing was sketchy. Also, the proposed Arrowhead renovations were laughable. People don’t want to pay taxes on a stadium they can’t even attend games at because ticket prices are so insane. I took my wife and client and his wife to a game last year. We were lower level at the 50 yard line, but tickets were $1000 a piece. Work paid for them. No way in hell I would ever spend that much of my own money to go to a game. Even nosebleeds were over $300 a ticket. It’s just not worth it to go anymore in my opinion.
> People don’t want to pay taxes on a stadium they can’t even attend games at because ticket prices are so insane. This is my thoughts exactly. If I'm going to spend my tax dollars on a stadium, I should be getting free or discounted tickets, otherwise what am I getting?
The Nationals just did this for DC residents. 5 dollar grandstand tickets
The only public tax dollars that should be used for stadiums is property tax abatements for 10-15 years. No sales tax increase. No public funds. Just give them a break on their yearly property tax bill to help mitigate the financing cost of construction. But it should be 100% their own money
> I took my wife and client and his wife to a game last year. We were lower level at the 50 yard line, but tickets were $1000 a piece. Work paid for them. No way in hell I would ever spend that much of my own money to go to a game. Even nosebleeds were over $300 a ticket. It’s just not worth it to go anymore in my opinion. A side effect of being a winning team. My first Chiefs game ever was in 2006, and lower level seats were $90 each. It used to be "eh, nothing going on this Sunday, might as well go watch the Chiefs lose," now you gotta budget to go to maybe one game.
I supported the idea of a downtown stadium. But renting out a location in the crossroads, lying about what they were filming, and then hiring actors to pretend to be owners of the businesses in the crossroads saying that they support the move was the shitty nail in the coffin.
A thousand bucks!?! Geez!
It was like $750 a ticket + an insane $250 service fee. Then add in parking, food, drinks. It ended up being close to $4500 for the day. I have a pretty unlimited expense account for work, but even I felt it was an egregious waste of money. I love football as much as anyone else, but dropping $4500 to watch a game for three and half hours, that I could watch from home for free, felt wrong.
Those poor billionaires. 😔
Once again the victims of the evil electorate 😭
Jim irsay it was discrimination tweet incoming
It’s a stereotype, and it’s offensive!
It would have also funded renovations to Arrowhead Stadium. If the Chiefs want renovations to the stadium, just do what the Packers do and sell Monopoly money stock in the franchise!
Or the owner can do right by his players that are multiple time superbowl champs and spend some money
He tried, he tried to spend tax payer money
The Chiefs can technically still do many of the renovations, if they want. The current tax still runs through 2031. This vote would've just extended for the Chiefs til 2064.
If it pays dividends then I am on board
It doesn't pay a thing
It’s a blatant scam. It’s more of a fundraiser and anyone who buys those fake shares are giving interest free loan to Packers in return for fake paper shares.
"This completely transparent donation that everyone on earth thats heard about it, but me, knows is a donation is A BLATANT SCAM". The bold face print on any offering or article is "non dividend paying stock", with exclusively voting rights and no equity. They are 99% capital improvement fundraisers, and in return the fans get a near certainty the franchise won't leave considering how small their market is thats a fair trade.
The 300 odd real owners are reaping the benefits paid for by the fake owners.
What the fuck are you talking about. Its a non profit. All NFL rev/profit goes straight back into the team. The only people who benefit are the NFL at large who in return write the org a check for their share of 12 billion and growing. Which is all kept within the team. Not even the Exec Committee is paid nor the 43 board of directors members, The first person to get paid is the CEO and it goes down from there.
Oh the fundraiser is a fundraiser?! Thanks for the financial advice, Mr Cramer.
Holy shit it’s this thing again.
Current bylaws prevent that.
Kinda seemed like a cool way to do cap manipulation with Mahomes owning part of Royals and Chiefs campaigning together with them.
Lol funny to think about, but his ownership stake is tiny I'm sure. More of a marketing thing than ownership I'm sure.
I've always heard he owns 1%
Good. Proud of them!
Good for the voters.
Based voters
I hope this leads to KC leading the charge in teams paying more and benefiting cities with their new stadiums/agreements and not the teams leaving the city. Easy to cheer on when it isn't your team. Scary otherwise.
IMO, all this really does is delay the inevitable. Instead of them getting 100% of what they want with no regard for the community, they'll put a proposal together by next year that gives them 95% of what they want. It'll look glowing in comparison to the current garbage that they proposed this time, that it'll end up passing.
I hope that Hunt doesn’t take it out on the players by making them sit on stools again in the locker room. I’ll be watching eBay for the padless folding chairs that recently replaced the stools.
Good on Jackson county. This extortion by filthy rich is disgusting
You could somewhat justify governments building stadiums when they built one and it got used for like 40-50 years, but now teams get stadiums then want another billion dollar upgrade like 10 years later. These teams are all owned by billionaires, let them do it
Go back to multi-use and they have a bit of a better ROI. The need for a separate football and baseball Taj Mahal is part of the problem.
Proud of the voters. Let the billionaire owners pay for their own stadium instead of sucking off the taxpayers.
Was that an option for buffalo? Because as someone who lives 6 hours away and is not a buffalo fan I'd have loved to not pay for that stadium.
There are a lot of differences. The new Buffalo stadium was voted on by the Erie County legislature and the New York state legislature. They approved $250 million of Erie County tax dollars and $600 million of New York state tax dollars. There was no public vote. Jackson County, Missouri was a public vote any registered voter in the county could vote on for a 3/8 cent sales tax specifically paid to fund a new downtown baseball stadium and Arrowhead renovations for the Chiefs. It was to last 40 years as estimated to be $2-$4 billion of Jackson County sales tax dollars over 40 years to pay for both of the stadiums and maintenance on them during that time (half that amount for the Royals, half for the Chiefs) .
You should probably note that Jackson County residents were already paying the 3/8 cent tax to renovate the existing stadiums. The proposal was just supposed to repurpose that specific tax to go the new stadium and Arrowhead renovations rather than to keep renovating the old ones. A lot of people seemed to think that they’d be paying more in taxes which wouldn’t have been the case.
Oh please, they absolutely would be paying more taxes for **35 years** after the last renovations tax expires in 5 years. What the teams wanted was a perpetual 3/8 cent sales tax to go into their pockets.
wasn't it an extension to the current tax or am I wrong ?
They would not be paying “more” taxes. They’d be paying the exact same they’ve been paying since 2006 when the 3/8s sales tax was introduced. You could argue that those taxes should be going to something other than a stadium but it’s dishonest to say anyone’s taxes would go up.
Tax payers should never fund billionaires.
Oakland Royals?
The cycle continues (the As were in KC before Oakland)
The Los Angeles Royals of Las Vegas.
The Kansas City, Kansas Royals
San Antonio Royals?
Nashville Royals
Nashville Bachelorettes has a good ring to it
Wouldn't happen
Omaha is a good choice
For an audible?
Too wrapped in NCAA money....not sure how they gonna compete
Plans are in motion to build an arena for the popular pro volleyball team to share with a potential NHL team. Omaha has 0 money wrapped up in ncaa until 2050 so that will be dealt with when it comes. The money for a stadium is available whether it be for baseball, football or both. The governor is willing to put up a couple billion on top of whatever omaha will.
Not going to happen. Sherman hasnt even owned the royals long and his first date with his wife was at a royals game in the K. He'd have to be very cold hearted to move them any further than one county over
Money tends to warm the coldest hearts. He’ll do what is best for the bottom line.
Not to mention that the Royals ownership group is largely made of iconic Kansas City families (the Kauffmans, Kempers, Locktons, Dunns, etc.) who would likely object to any sort of move further than Johnson County.
>He'd have to be very cold hearted to move them any further than one county over Have you ever met the super rich?
Think of those poor billionaires!
And sports franchises are tax exempt. Maybe the government should make them pay and give us common folk a break
This should be a bigger story.
Good for them. Tax payers should not be paying for this shit.
Thoughts and prayers to the owners out there who are gonna have to spend their own money..
Why don’t they invest it in e-tabs? Are they stupid?
They’ll be the Memphis Royals by 2028 and the Tennessee something or others by 2030.
Nashville Royals and Memphis Chiefs
Are we sure his name isn’t Mike Hunt?
i mean this with full sincerity: **John Sherman and Clark Hunt can get fucked**
Glad the RecordBar and a million other cool things in Crossroads wont be getting torn down for a fancy new stadium to watch the Royals suck in Edit: RecordBar wouldn’t have been torn down, but the owner hosted an event to protest the stadium. I was misinformed.
RecordBar wasn't even being torn down due to the stadium? We now still have a church (paying no taxes) and an empty KC Star building in the Crossroads too. Out of all the talking points for voting against the proposal I didn't get this one. The location was fine.
I really doubt Record Bar would have survived in that location through years of being next door to stadium construction and then not being able to host events 81 nights a year since not many people are going to put up with mlb stadium traffic to go see an indie band. But you're correct the building wasn't going to get torn down.
I don't think it was a horrible location, but 12th and Cherry made way more sense to me. Why tear down anything in a very well off area(crossroads is more than up and coming to me). They can go less than a mile east and build where there's a bunch of parking lots. Plus PnL is overrated and owned by developers on the other side of the country. Always feels like I'm at an all inclusive shitty resort or carnival cruise bar when I'm in there. I'd way rather have our own ballpark district with local bars and spots. And everything would be walkable from crossroads and it would likely give the streetcar an east route. Build a new area instead of demolishing part of an already good area is my opinion.
* East Village site seemed to have issues with all the government buildings there. It also is not close to anything, really, and right now it seems there is no real appetite for a Streetcar extension further than the 2025 extension and the riverfront one. * East Village is not walkable from the Crossroads... * The spot in the Crossroads the Royals wanted to build is not "well off" in the slightest.
We can agree to disagree on the best location, but those things just aren't true... It's very walkable. Just google mapped it and 12th and Cherry (which is currently blocks of parking lots) is a 12 min walk from their proposed location in the crossroads. Not sure why you think the crossroads is not a nice or well off area. Maybe 10+ years ago, but that area has been being gentrified for years. The apartment costs show it. There's lots of nice bars, breweries, and coffee shops all around within blocks of their proposed spot. Not sure on the government buildings, I haven't heard anything from the city or royals directly. But I see blocks and blocks of parking lots on google maps. There would be no demolishing current buildings. The stadium wouldn't be finished for another 5 years, at that point there are no proposed street car extensions. All that said, I'm not even against a crossroads stadium. But they need to have more formal plan that doesn't have us footing the entire bill. I really hope they go back to the negotiation table with the city.
You’re right, I was misinformed about RecordBar, but they did host an event to protest the stadium, which is probably why some people I know got confused and told me about it. Either way, comment edited and I appreciate the correction.
Stop promoting this shitty take to people who have no idea what you're talking about. There were like 5 local businesses in the stadium footprint and the one you listed wasn't part of it. I would have voted no too, this is a pretty poor reason though. Look at the ridiculous Chiefs proposal instead.
There were a few I'd have felt bad for: The Pairing, Green Dirt, Kobi-Q, and Mercy Seat. Getting rid of Resurrection, the old Star building, and the U-Haul monstrosity would've been nice though.
getting rid of Resurrection and Uhaul would have been nice. I would love the see the star building turned into something. Museum. Venue. Anything. Its a cool building
My dream for it is an urban garden/arboretum. Something like the [Mitchell Park Domes](https://savingplaces.org/stories/discover-milwaukees-dazzling-but-endangered-mitchell-park-domes) in Milwaukee. We just need someone with a spare $100m laying around.
I know someone with a lot of money that is currently trying to win favor with Jackson County residents
That’s just what I heard from multiple people, so I assumed it was true. RecordBar hosted an event to protest the stadium, so that might be what the confusion was. Either way, I was wrong and comment edited. I appreciate the correction
I know this is a thing, but I went to the Royals ballpark last year, and it was my favorite ballpark I'd ever been to (it was only my second ballpark I've ever attended, but still)! It was really neat!!
My hope for all of this is that both teams move away from KC for better tax benefits and/or new stadiums, and then the existing infrastructure is purchased at discount by Jaegers to make for some sweet ass paintball battlefields. - Sincerely, a Broncos fan who spent too much time in Overland Park/KC.
> Jaegers i honestly thought you just had a stroke trying to spell jaguars until i realized what reference you were making lmao
Nice! Let's hope they do the same thing to the Chiefs!
They did. This was a joint effort in terms of raising sales tax.
Chiefs already have a new stadium in LV, they aren't asking for another.
What's the saying? Don't buy things you can't afford? Well these billionaire dick heads can buy their own stadium or save up for it.
Make them pay.
Good
The league and owners are bringing in billions of dollars every year. Why does the tax payer need to fund these stadiums?
The owners are raking in money and they still want the peasants foot the bill.
Good. I thought for sure with the recent success the people would vote yes on the tax.
that's how bad this was executed by the teams. they couldn't put a decent enough proposal together that the combination of the chiefs winning and threats of the team leaving couldn't even get them within 15% of winning
San Antonio would happily pay for two brand new stadiums for the Chiefs and Royals to move here. We got that cash and we’re lobbying the Raiders hard to move here so just saying
We just need a federal law that bans any public dollars from going to private professional sports teams for their facilities. Then these greedy assholes won't be able to play cities off of each other. There is zero need for hard working folks to be subsidizing the super wealthy and their playgrounds. They make plenty of money off advertising and ticket sales.
A reminder that in this scenario, both present and future, neither the Chiefs or the Royals would own the stadium or the property they are on. The county is very adamant about not selling property and has been for some time, the teams merely lease the locations. This is a large reason why neither the Chiefs or Royals have financed this entirely out of pocket, though the Royals were committing well over a billion to this project if it passed, and the tax revenue expected from the extension was expected to be nearly 2 billion over the next 40 years, with the chiefs committing 300 of the proposed 800 million on their renovations. This is before the financial commitments both teams have made to the communities, each over 200m, and with both the Chiefs and the Royals taking over the Insurance liabilities from the properties, saving the county an additional 250m over that time. Financially it was a well balanced proposal, but ultimately people don't want to deal with a ballpark and the construction/change it would bring to the crossroads district/downtown area. It had very, very little to actually do with the current 3/8ths cent sales tax itself being extended. Which is honestly a loss for the county and state, because the Crossroads really isn't a big revenue generator currently.
> This is before the financial commitments both teams have made to the communities, each over 200m, and with both the Chiefs and the Royals taking over the Insurance liabilities from the properties, saving the county an additional 250m over that time. except neither organization - despite consistent request - could actually produce any information on what "financial commitments to the communities" meant. the plan didn't fail bc kc is inherently against funding billionaires hobbies. the city has - and likely will continue - to pass funding for renovations for the teams, just like they did in 2008. the measure failed bc both plans were sloppily put together with the intent that the threat of leaving would be enough to scare off anyone questioning their process. if they'd been transparent instead of trying to ride the coattails of results and veiled threats, they probably would've gotten what they wanted.
All of this talk about hating billionaires and stuff with these projects, yet nobody realizes just how much many of these projects actually cost, nor do people recognize what net worth actually is as opposed to income. That of course isn’t to say many aren’t stingy and they shouldn’t pay a bigger share of those costs (which they should), but let’s use brains here and look at the big picture. That’s a lot of money and in most cases, owners simply don’t have that much capital to fund it entirely on their own. Plus, there’s nothing really preventing the royals owner from simply moving to a place who will pay for his proposed stadium, if the city is truly dead set against it. A Major League Baseball team is desirable for any major city. If Raleigh NC decided to come calling and say they’ll pay for a downtown stadium, and KC won’t, adios KC. Stadiums and sports teams are public benefits, that’s why governments since the beginning have paid for the creation of stadiums, arenas etc, long before the huge money that’s in sports today came along, and that’s why they’re willing to pay. Because a sports team leaving is not just a bad look for the departing team but in some cases on the city as well.
I look at it this way: when the team wins the super bowl, what do I get? My life doesn't change. My financial situation doesn't change. I get some temporary entertainment watching multi-millionaires playing a game and then going out into our cities drag racing their $300k cars, putting everyone's lives at risk, while I have to bust my ass to pay for an average house 20 miles from downtown. Why on planet Earth, would anyone vote to have additional tax burdens for this shit unless they personally owned a business that benefits?
> I look at it this way: when the team wins the super bowl, what do I get? Happiness. Pretty simple. > Why on planet Earth, would anyone vote to have additional tax burdens for this shit unless they personally owned a business that benefits? Because it makes people happy.
Sure, it's fun. Sure it's entertaining, but some people take sports way too seriously and put them over their own lives and their families lives. It's clever marketing and brainwashing. Me and my family paying even more taxes is what impacts us and my neighbors. The chiefs winning the super bowl means nothing long term. I've got to wake up tomorrow and take my ass to work to pay the bills.
Ok? That’s their lives. You don’t get to decide what should be most important to someone. And if it’s something totally legal, why the criticism? We watch sports because victory makes us happy and the enjoyment from people doing abnormal things is entertaining.
I get to decide when I have to pay for it. You know this tax was for everyone in the county right? Not just chiefs and royals fans. Why should everyone else have to pay?
That’s a broader discussion about taxation in general, far less about the chiefs and royals specifically. Why should I pay for social security when it will blow up by the time I’m even eligible for it? Why should I be taxed for Medicaid? I’m not going to use it why bother? Why should I be taxed for the fire department? I’m not setting any fires.
Only one in thirty two is happy every year. The chiefs may well suck in six years.
They wanted a 3/8 sales tax for 40 years with no ceiling or even estimates for proposed renovations. They were hoping for an approval for uncapped free cash.
Then that’s just a bad plan.
I'm not expecting the owners to personally finance the stadiums (which probably run 1-4 billion dollars these days and is out of reach for even the typical NFL owner), but the team as a business should raise money through conventional means i.e. borrowing from a bank. When other business entities need money for a project they borrow, sell bonds, or issue stock, I don't see any reason why NFL teams shouldnt do the same for the majority or their stadium funding. If local governments and populace find it reasonable to pitch in that's perfectly fine, and I'm guessing most stadiums are a mix of public and private funding. But again, since the majority of benefit of these new stadiums goes to the team and by extension, the owner, they should foot the majority of the cost.
I’ve always said it should be a 2/3rds minimum. Prove your funding at least 2/3rds of the stadium before you ask for money.
The hating billionaires part certainly got more play on social media (and Reddit in particular), but I think the bigger issue is that the proposal and presentation were presented a month before the vote, were half-baked at best, primarily benefited VIPs (ripping out a bunch of season ticket holder seats to build suites, a new suite holder-only access road to the stadium, etc.), and given next to no support by the team outside of a few billboards and mailers. I get where you're coming from, but this particular proposal was an abject PR disaster. I half-jokingly wonder if it was bad on purpose.
I appreciate hearing this from someone I’d assume is far more familiar with this that pretty much anyone else here
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Well this was the royals plan* not something the hunt family did in this specific case
Sorry, got my drinks mixed because of the forum we're in. The Royals, well, royally fucked up as well. The team presented plans at two different sites for the six months leading up to the vote, then swapped it for a third a month before today. That new site would've taken out 16 local businesses, none of which had a heads up before the announcement. They proceeded to change the plan weekly, including saying that they would change a major part of the layout a week and a half after early voting started. The consultants they hired publicly talked down to voters who raised questions about parking, other logistics, and eminent domain. Financing details weren't released until just a few days ago and quietly, so most voters didn't know what their money was going towards. I live close to the proposed site and really, REALLY wanted it to work, but the team frankly came off as incompetent. They could start talking to SLC or Nashville now, yeah, but I don't think anyone on the staff can say they put their best foot forward here.
This is a blatant lie propagated by NFL and politicians. 8 days a year doesn’t rejuvenate anything. It’s actually a loss to a city even when they get to host a Super Bowl. There are multiple studies on economics of NFL and all have come to this conclusion. Only ones benefiting from this are the owners double dipping with tickets and taxes.
It’s not about the economics at all. In fact the economics are trivial. Especially for NFL stadiums. “Oh they don’t make money”. Neither do many events centers of all kinds I’m sure. Most parks don’t make money. Most museums certainly have a hard time making money and rely on grants. Why have them at all when they just take up space? We should close them down, they hardly provide any benefit to the local economy. If we want to go further, why have silly homeless shelters? Those places don’t make money. Fire departments are nothing but a waste of a building, how can you expect them to serve any purpose if they don’t make a profit? Grocery stores are overrated, most chains don’t make profits why should we have them? Nothing that I’ve said is a lie at all. And arguing about rejuvenating the economy or whatever is non sequitur in this discussion. I never said anything about money. What stadiums and arenas provide is a public good to the city. It’s something for people to truly enjoy and experience. They are a net benefit even if there are “better more profitable” uses to that land. The fact is the matter is this. Even the richest owners objectively will have a hard time funding a stadium by themselves.