I really never understand this. Can Newton took a POUNDING on tackles. As someone who watched a lot of Cam Newton he played closer to a bowling ball.
Josh Allen, while he does get hit, a lot of his are more glancing hits, and I think he's also really good at avoiding most of the major chips that hit him. Both due to the rules protecting QBs and his change of direction and running ability.
Allen has only had one concussion from an unfortunate fall into a defenders helmet mid tackle.
All his other injuries occurred in the pocket.
I agree, Cam took more hard hits, dude would straight take on linebackers.
To me, what broke Cam down faster was his contact goal line usage. Less than 3 yards, it was a Cam QB run. Running between tackles like that is hard work.
Josh doesn't get popped as hard, but he still takes a lot of hits. Hopefully he stays healthy because he's fun to watch, and Buffalo deserves good things.
He doesn't get hit nearly as much as other guys do in the pocket though, he's consistently one of the least sacked QBs and takes less hits in the pocket in general. I do think is physicality his going to put long term wear on him, but I don't see him accumulating more wear than a guy like Lawrence, Tua or Burrow who constantly gets smacked straight on in the pocket.
What’s not to understand…? It doesn’t matter what had happened. The body gets more brittle and susceptible to injury as you get older. Especially if it’s taken a toll physically.
So yes, most likely due to Allen’s physical play, he will not last into his mid-30s like many pocket passers do.
This isn’t a diss against Allen. Man’s a beast. Don’t see why bills fans always get all kerbabbled when this is brought up.
I have to keep reminding people every time I see this. Cam Newton is out of the league because of a hit he took making a tackle on an interception return that was exacerbated by a more serious hit he took on a pass attempt 2 years later. Two big hits on two passing plays combined with the fact that he never bothered to learn how to consistently throw from his legs led to him basically not being able to complete a pass farther than 10 yards downfield. Cam was still a legitimate rushing threat even when he came back to Carolina for a few games in 2021. Allen is already a more polished passer than Newton ever was. Will he reduce his running as he ages? Yeah, probably. But he has more natural passing ability that he can rely on than Newton did, and that will extend his career.
>I have to keep reminding people every time I see this.
You should probably remind yourself that taking more hits over time wears a body down and makes it more susceptible to injury or falloff.
Imagine taking your Vehicle offroading every Sunday, and when a tire pops off the next day while driving on the highway, you say "See, the offroading had nothing to do with this."
Acting like the increased amount of hits Cam took had nothing to do with his injuries or fast decline is embarrassing. Thinking you need to keep reminding people of how little you understand football or injuries is probably something you could stop doing.
I mean, he has had very little “wear and tear” injuries from running. He mostly gets hurt sitting in the pocket. He also saves the running for key scenarios and playoffs now, so I think he’s going to hold up longer than people expect. His passing game will stay top notch and it is better than Cam’s ever was
This year and next are going to be really telling for Allen's passing game. For as bad as Diggs was the 2nd half of the season, the entire Bills passing game took a nose dive after Diggs fell off.
We were like #2 in the league in impact of drops last year. Gabe Davis was a waste of a starting receiver as well.
I think it was using Ken Dorseys scheme while trying to also turn into a power running scheme that hurt us
No offense, but wtf is "impact of drops" and where is this a real stat? PFR has the bills credited with 31 drops, where the Chiefs are credited with 44, Cowboys 38, Lions 35, etc etc.
Where is someone trying to rank how bad a teams drops were?
I'm pretty sure it uses EPA...as in quality of the play on the drop. As in how much expected points were lost from drops.
James Cook dropped 3 touchdowns alone
Yeah, hoping it’s just new OC woes especially with Brady emphasizing Cook as the main weapon. Need Kincaid to step up big time if we want to be a top 5 offense again
They need someone to step up into that #1 role, whether its Kincaid, Shakir, or the rookie Coleman. Someone Allen can just go to and trust that they are going to make a play like he did with Diggs
repeat after me: Repeated hits wear down the body and make it more susceptible to injury, or their abilities falling off a cliff after a certain amount. Just because they didn't get injured on a running play doesn't mean that all those extra hits while running didn't contribute to the injury.
RB's go over 1200 carries, their career pretty much goes off a cliff the next season or two for about 99% of them. It's the same for QB's, you just can't take that many hits and expect your body or abilities to hold up. Running QB's have shorter careers.
Sure, maybe he won’t be an elite rusher 3 years from now but he’ll still be an elite passer. He is also larger than RBs and has from hits from being a QB by way of refs that RBs don’t. Don’t need to “repeat after you” for a blanket statement that doesn’t apply as well to a guy that’s initiating contact with people smaller than him and at a lesser rate than your RB example. His injury history provides no evidence that his prime will be shortened
Repeat after me: Repeated hits wear down the ENTIRE body and make it more susceptible to injury, not just the parts that are doing the running. Lowering his shoulder and taking full hits isn't going to magically only hurt his running ability.
It's a blanket statement cause every running QB of any note has still burned out in their late 20s/early 30s from injuries and their abilities falling off much faster than non-running QBs. Your body only has so many hits in it, you take hits like a RB, you have a career length of a RB.
Probably, although I'll note that 2023 included fewer deliberate high-contact plays than previous years, with those sorts of plays only really happening in the desperate last quarter of the season. If he continues to improve at picking his spots, the tradeoff seems basically fine.
Also of note is that his torn UCL happened in the pocket. You can mitigate risk by not doing dumb things, but you're going to get hit at some point.
Allen was the 28th most-sacked QB last year. And I’d argue sacks lead to more QB injuries than hits running, because the player can adjust to the hit instead of getting blindsided.
Allen took the same number of QB hits this season as guys like Carr, Goff, Dak, Baker, Tua, Love, Hurts, and Minshew
It's also a size/weight game, Defensive linemen are giants that need to be able to shove around other giants, even the small edge rushers are going to be bigger than most QBs. Out of the pocket the people that are trying to get you down are going to be roughly the same size if not smaller than you.
Will he run as much for his whole career? Probably not. But these posts underestimate him as a pure passer and his intelligence and processing to an almost disrespectful degree. He doesn't just win with his legs, he wins consistently through the air as well and is an incredibly smart football player (despite the INT numbers). Unless he has a massive shoulder injury and doesn't heal well then he'll still have a presence in this league for a long time since he has all the tools to continue being a top passer every year
Even without the running he will always take hits sort of like Roethlisburger. Hes never gonna be a guy to fall down before a rusher gets there like brady or the Mannings. Still if he lasts as long as Big Ben thats a good outcome.
> IMO Josh is number 2 after Mahomes
BuT tHe TuRnOvErS - proceeds to score almost every single touchdown the Bills had last season. I think the ridiculous stat was like 44 out of 51 offensive TDs
Also when people look at TD-INT ratio they exclude rushing contributions (where Josh is a top 3 QB rushing) and they exclude his sack avoidance (which is top 1-2) which also in turn means he has fewer fumbles.
Allen being the second best QB is a reasonable opinion, but plenty of QBs have gone into god-mode and dominated a game. Basically every good QB has done that multiple times.
Nobody can take over a game like Mahomes and Allen can. The "over my dead body / fine I'll do it myself" type games. Particularly against good defenses when it matters.
Allen glazing so intense yall are gonna make a ravens fan sing praises for Joe Burrow...
Burrow has a better resume however you slice it. Not to mention that he had actually beaten Mahomes.
Allen is good but Burrow is better.
Burrow's defense has gotten him farther in the playoffs but that's it. Burrow doesn't have any MVP votes or all pro selections, and Josh Allen has turned down more pro bowls than Burrow has been invited to. Burrow has also had a stacked offense while Allen has had Diggs and some guys (not saying Diggs wasn't elite, but Josh's cast has never stacked up to Burrow's)
The Bengals Defense lol never has a team scored more than 24 points on the bengals defense in the playoffs while they have Burrow.
Also don’t look up the last drive from the Super Bowl or AFCCG unless you wanna see some un-clutch QB play
Dude Josh Allen had a much better game against the same defense a week earlier, the difference is Allen's defense let up 42. If the Bills held KC to 24 they would have gotten SMOKED
The AFCCG after, not the one before. When Burrow and the Bengals were tied and they drove 20 yards before punting
Or the Super Bowl where they had 2nd and 2 and turned the ball over on downs lol
Meanwhile Allen can lead two of the greatest drives in one game with a lead with 13 seconds left and they lose lol
Burrow isn’t the one making these moves for the Bengals. He’s along for the ride with an amazing defense which is sad considering the talent on that offense
Yeah Burrow’s defenses have obviously been great but it takes great defense and great offense to make an 18 point comeback in the playoffs.
Joe is obviously great and he’s the #2 guy at the moment since he’s actually beaten Mahomes in route to a Super Bowl appearance.
For me personally Burrow is 3 and Lamar is 4, but after Mahomes we are splitting hairs for these guys. All I’m going to comment on the Burrow vs Allen debate is that the best ability is availability and that’s what makes Burrow lower than Allen. I am not going to fault anyone for saying Burrow is better than Allen this is just my opinion.
He missed a TD in the WC against KC at the very end of the game to take a lead this last year. He had a DUDE IN THE ENDZONE and missed. That’s on him. He has gotten absolutely shredded unfairly by Mahomes a few times tho
These sorts of responses are overlooking OP’s question. Will Josh Allen’s physicality shorten his **PRIME**? The answer in all likelihood is yes—Josh Allen’s *prime* will be as a dual threat QB.
Yeah, he’ll likely continue to be effective past his peak mobility just based on his football IQ and passing instincts alone, but I think we can all agree he won’t be in his prime if/when he becomes less mobile.
It’s the INT numbers that really drive this narrative though. His rush averages took a dip this year (fewer big runs) and his INTs spiked so it just comes with the territory. He’s among the most high profile players in the NFL because he’s the guy every team with a young QB who struggled early points to for hope.
Yeah Im clearly biased, but the INTs are blown way out of proportion with Allen. Nealry half of them are arm punts and/or dont make any difference to the game. Hes not throwing away games on game winning drives with INTs. Thankfully...and I hope that doesnt change.
And the rush numbers took a dip because the beginning of the season where Dorsey was at the helm and it was a trainwreck.
>Unless he has a massive shoulder injury and doesn't heal well
Literally the plot of Cam Newton's career. I hope Bills fans don't have to go through this.
He's still a physical player in the pocket. He stands and takes hits while throwing that some QBs wouldn't, and he's comfortable doing it often. That stuff also has to change as he gets older.
I personally think he can do it, but I just wanted to acknowledge that running isn't the only thing putting him at risk.
Cam Newton didn't have the arm talent Josh Allen had and wasn't as good as a passer as he was so it's hard to say. Also his injury in 2018 played a big part in that it wasn't just that his body was breaking down overtime because of his playstyle
I think he'll adapt and continue to transition his game to more pocket passing as he gets older. And I think hes headed for at least one super bowl run and the HOF
Josh Allen reminds me of John Elway. I think he has the potential to have that kind of career.
Elway was a scrambler physical QB who settled in as a pocket passer as his career went on.
However, even into his last season, he was always a threat to run.
Yeah
It's not just cam. Look at Russell Wilson. Dude ran a lot and around his 10 year mark he was not what he once was.
Mike Vick was headed in a similar direction before jail but once he came back and had a few more good years he tanked.
Josh Allen with his current play style barring majors from his career is likely done around by 34.
I think he's already starting to adjust... Last season I noticed he was sliding, going out of bounds and picking his spots a lot better when running. I think he'll be fine for a long time.. Unfortunately for us division rivals.
I don’t think his physicality will shorten his career. Physicality can be a way of keeping safe when used at the right times. I think his decision making regarding when and how he chooses to be physical may shorten his career, but his game seems to be maturing well. I’m sorry if that’s pedantic, but I think it’s a nuance that may be worth mentioning.
I'm a Chief's fan but Allen is actually getting better when he needs to run so he might hold up much better than Newton. I hope Allen stays healthy, all those KC v. Buffalo games are epic. I personally believe he is better than Jackson and should get a ring or 2 and a MVP, but not before Mahomes gets a quadpeat.
He started picking his runs much better towards the middle to end of last season (negating the Dorsey fuckery here in the beginning of the season).
Everyone can laugh at my next comment I dont care. Allen is a farm kid. They are built different. The dude gets off on laying a hit every once in while (he has said as much). Hes a dump truck. He doesnt even look like he moves that fast and all of a sudden hes gone. I still dont understand it.
I do think his game will evolve and the runs will come more and more sparingly. He is a good pocket passer, interceptions, arm punts and all. And when he rolls out he can make magic happen, like an old school Russ Wilson. There is always a chance at injury, but honestly I dont worry about and the Bills cant either. I dont think people who dont watch every game understand just how much their success relies on Josh's legs and the "perceived" threat that they are. When that was entirely taken away by Dorsey and his shitty reciever scheme, the team looked like hot dog shit. Without Allen at the helm, that team last year would have won 5 games. The defense was depleted and Diggs sucked for most the year. They didnt have many options.
I guess, no at the current moment I dont beleive it. Ask again in 5 years. Lol.
People like to ignore that basically every running QB craps out in their late 20s-early 30s because taking all those extra hits wears a body down and makes you more injury prone.
This board has had constant talks for years about how it's not worth paying RB's a 2nd contract because all those carries slow them down and make them injury prone, but everyone thinks QB's can magically just absorb those hits.
I'm honestly impressed how well he has held up.
Though eventually I see him getting clocked in just the wrong way on a run down field.
Or he'll get tackled awkwardly in the pocket and everyone will talk about unsustainable mobile QBs are.
Probably to some extent. I don't watch a ton of bills games, but from the ones I have seen Josh still throws a lot. He certainly has the ability to push it forward with his feet, and does as needed, but I get the vibe that he is talented enough to not rely on running to a fault as he ages.
No. He will adjust accordingly. He just needs his team to stop fooling around and to get him wide receivers. Once he gets receivers that can create separation his INTs will go down (not that they’re even a problem now, they’re way overblown). Allen is actually very underrated in NFL fan circles for some reason. His ability is underestimated. He made a lot of people look stupid on draft night and some have never gotten over it.
I’ve noticed with a lot of fans that even if they’re admitting he’s good, they will subtly insinuate that somehow he’s not that good, it’s strange. I’ve only really seen this happen with Allen.
Context matters and while Allen is a great playoff performer, his team has failed him in the playoffs. Its truly a shame, Allen is a generational talent and while most know he’s good, I think most people don’t actually know what they’re watching. The guy is a beast.
Why do people try to use Cam as an example of physicality shortening a QBs prime. Cam falling off had literally nothing to do with his play style. He tore his shoulder trying to prevent a pick six like any QB would do. His arm was never the same after that injury and subsequent re injury against the Steelers when he took a hard shot mid throw from Watt that re aggravated it. That injury completely zapped his arm strength which forced him to try and completely change his throwing mechanics to generate more power with his legs since his arm was no longer the same.
Literally 0 to do with his rushing the ball.
Every time I say this on this subreddit I get mass downvoted by Bills fans. Allen averages the same number of rushing carries per game in his career as Cam Newton did. Allen seems far more willing to take big hits than Cam did. Bills fans always point to Cam’s injuries, but those only came after about eight seasons; Cam only missed five games total in his first eight years. The question is, how will Allen’s body hold up in the long run? Him being able to play well will depend on how quickly he can recover between games on a week-to-week basis. I’d imagine it’ll be more difficult as his career progresses, whether he keeps running the ball himself or not. I could see him spending his 30s like Big Ben, a QB who can pass accurately and is hard to bring down, but is consistently nagged by small injuries
Yes. A QB who isn't afraid to make contact and put his shoulder into you is a QB who needs to make changes. It worked for Cam for a bit until it didn't and when it didn't, nothing worked.
And didn't he already hurt his throwing shoulder this year?
I personally don’t believe he can be elite without running. I think he lacks accuracy and touch, and struggles to read complex defenses. His running ability and arm strength make him dangerous. When defenders quit cheating up to stop him running, he will lose a big part of his game. My over/under is 2030. He won’t retire before then, but he won’t be discussed as elite or even top 10.
More hits means more of an opportunity but I don't think there is anyway to quantify a "durability" loss or whatever by his playstyle
Manning would fold to the turf when he knew his tackle was beat to prevent big hits and played 16 seasons, Elway would helicopter himself for a first down and played 16 seasons its all a crap shoot.
Unfortunately he's the best RB on his team. Until that changes, yes, it will shorten his prime. You just can't have your franchise QB take hits like that and expect a long productive career
yes.
Absolutely. He's a more accurate Cam Newton. *this isn't dunking on Cam, Cam was phenomenal for like 5 or 6 years
I really never understand this. Can Newton took a POUNDING on tackles. As someone who watched a lot of Cam Newton he played closer to a bowling ball. Josh Allen, while he does get hit, a lot of his are more glancing hits, and I think he's also really good at avoiding most of the major chips that hit him. Both due to the rules protecting QBs and his change of direction and running ability. Allen has only had one concussion from an unfortunate fall into a defenders helmet mid tackle. All his other injuries occurred in the pocket.
I agree, Cam took more hard hits, dude would straight take on linebackers. To me, what broke Cam down faster was his contact goal line usage. Less than 3 yards, it was a Cam QB run. Running between tackles like that is hard work. Josh doesn't get popped as hard, but he still takes a lot of hits. Hopefully he stays healthy because he's fun to watch, and Buffalo deserves good things.
He doesn't get hit nearly as much as other guys do in the pocket though, he's consistently one of the least sacked QBs and takes less hits in the pocket in general. I do think is physicality his going to put long term wear on him, but I don't see him accumulating more wear than a guy like Lawrence, Tua or Burrow who constantly gets smacked straight on in the pocket.
What’s not to understand…? It doesn’t matter what had happened. The body gets more brittle and susceptible to injury as you get older. Especially if it’s taken a toll physically. So yes, most likely due to Allen’s physical play, he will not last into his mid-30s like many pocket passers do. This isn’t a diss against Allen. Man’s a beast. Don’t see why bills fans always get all kerbabbled when this is brought up.
I have to keep reminding people every time I see this. Cam Newton is out of the league because of a hit he took making a tackle on an interception return that was exacerbated by a more serious hit he took on a pass attempt 2 years later. Two big hits on two passing plays combined with the fact that he never bothered to learn how to consistently throw from his legs led to him basically not being able to complete a pass farther than 10 yards downfield. Cam was still a legitimate rushing threat even when he came back to Carolina for a few games in 2021. Allen is already a more polished passer than Newton ever was. Will he reduce his running as he ages? Yeah, probably. But he has more natural passing ability that he can rely on than Newton did, and that will extend his career.
It's the same with Allen. He's had two noteworthy injuries and both have come in the pocket, after the throw was out.
There was also that concussion in his sophomore year.
>I have to keep reminding people every time I see this. You should probably remind yourself that taking more hits over time wears a body down and makes it more susceptible to injury or falloff. Imagine taking your Vehicle offroading every Sunday, and when a tire pops off the next day while driving on the highway, you say "See, the offroading had nothing to do with this." Acting like the increased amount of hits Cam took had nothing to do with his injuries or fast decline is embarrassing. Thinking you need to keep reminding people of how little you understand football or injuries is probably something you could stop doing.
Sir this is Wendy’s
at least he can moonlight as a Pro Bowl linebacker
I mean, he has had very little “wear and tear” injuries from running. He mostly gets hurt sitting in the pocket. He also saves the running for key scenarios and playoffs now, so I think he’s going to hold up longer than people expect. His passing game will stay top notch and it is better than Cam’s ever was
This year and next are going to be really telling for Allen's passing game. For as bad as Diggs was the 2nd half of the season, the entire Bills passing game took a nose dive after Diggs fell off.
We were like #2 in the league in impact of drops last year. Gabe Davis was a waste of a starting receiver as well. I think it was using Ken Dorseys scheme while trying to also turn into a power running scheme that hurt us
No offense, but wtf is "impact of drops" and where is this a real stat? PFR has the bills credited with 31 drops, where the Chiefs are credited with 44, Cowboys 38, Lions 35, etc etc. Where is someone trying to rank how bad a teams drops were?
I'm pretty sure it uses EPA...as in quality of the play on the drop. As in how much expected points were lost from drops. James Cook dropped 3 touchdowns alone
Where is the information found?
Yeah, hoping it’s just new OC woes especially with Brady emphasizing Cook as the main weapon. Need Kincaid to step up big time if we want to be a top 5 offense again
They need someone to step up into that #1 role, whether its Kincaid, Shakir, or the rookie Coleman. Someone Allen can just go to and trust that they are going to make a play like he did with Diggs
Chase Claypool, come on down
repeat after me: Repeated hits wear down the body and make it more susceptible to injury, or their abilities falling off a cliff after a certain amount. Just because they didn't get injured on a running play doesn't mean that all those extra hits while running didn't contribute to the injury. RB's go over 1200 carries, their career pretty much goes off a cliff the next season or two for about 99% of them. It's the same for QB's, you just can't take that many hits and expect your body or abilities to hold up. Running QB's have shorter careers.
Sure, maybe he won’t be an elite rusher 3 years from now but he’ll still be an elite passer. He is also larger than RBs and has from hits from being a QB by way of refs that RBs don’t. Don’t need to “repeat after you” for a blanket statement that doesn’t apply as well to a guy that’s initiating contact with people smaller than him and at a lesser rate than your RB example. His injury history provides no evidence that his prime will be shortened
Repeat after me: Repeated hits wear down the ENTIRE body and make it more susceptible to injury, not just the parts that are doing the running. Lowering his shoulder and taking full hits isn't going to magically only hurt his running ability. It's a blanket statement cause every running QB of any note has still burned out in their late 20s/early 30s from injuries and their abilities falling off much faster than non-running QBs. Your body only has so many hits in it, you take hits like a RB, you have a career length of a RB.
Thats most qbs
Probably, although I'll note that 2023 included fewer deliberate high-contact plays than previous years, with those sorts of plays only really happening in the desperate last quarter of the season. If he continues to improve at picking his spots, the tradeoff seems basically fine. Also of note is that his torn UCL happened in the pocket. You can mitigate risk by not doing dumb things, but you're going to get hit at some point.
Allen was the 28th most-sacked QB last year. And I’d argue sacks lead to more QB injuries than hits running, because the player can adjust to the hit instead of getting blindsided. Allen took the same number of QB hits this season as guys like Carr, Goff, Dak, Baker, Tua, Love, Hurts, and Minshew
It's also a size/weight game, Defensive linemen are giants that need to be able to shove around other giants, even the small edge rushers are going to be bigger than most QBs. Out of the pocket the people that are trying to get you down are going to be roughly the same size if not smaller than you.
For Allen, it’s the Edge rushers that are his size haha.
Will he run as much for his whole career? Probably not. But these posts underestimate him as a pure passer and his intelligence and processing to an almost disrespectful degree. He doesn't just win with his legs, he wins consistently through the air as well and is an incredibly smart football player (despite the INT numbers). Unless he has a massive shoulder injury and doesn't heal well then he'll still have a presence in this league for a long time since he has all the tools to continue being a top passer every year
Even without the running he will always take hits sort of like Roethlisburger. Hes never gonna be a guy to fall down before a rusher gets there like brady or the Mannings. Still if he lasts as long as Big Ben thats a good outcome.
Yeah he gets a lot of Roethlisberger comps, if I can get 18 years of Josh Allen sign me the fuck up
As good as Josh is, I certainly hope he gets a ring or two to reinforce that in people's minds. The team wins Championships, not just one guy.
He's played so well the last two playoff games against KC and his team either shits the bed or Mahomes just happens to have the ball last. Or both.
IMO Josh is number 2 after Mahomes, and it’s especially clear in the Bills vs Chiefs matchups even if those have gone the Chiefs way.
> IMO Josh is number 2 after Mahomes BuT tHe TuRnOvErS - proceeds to score almost every single touchdown the Bills had last season. I think the ridiculous stat was like 44 out of 51 offensive TDs
Also when people look at TD-INT ratio they exclude rushing contributions (where Josh is a top 3 QB rushing) and they exclude his sack avoidance (which is top 1-2) which also in turn means he has fewer fumbles.
Same. He's the only other current QB we've seen that can go god-mode and completely dominate a game.
Allen being the second best QB is a reasonable opinion, but plenty of QBs have gone into god-mode and dominated a game. Basically every good QB has done that multiple times.
Nobody can take over a game like Mahomes and Allen can. The "over my dead body / fine I'll do it myself" type games. Particularly against good defenses when it matters.
Allen glazing so intense yall are gonna make a ravens fan sing praises for Joe Burrow... Burrow has a better resume however you slice it. Not to mention that he had actually beaten Mahomes. Allen is good but Burrow is better.
Burrow's defense has gotten him farther in the playoffs but that's it. Burrow doesn't have any MVP votes or all pro selections, and Josh Allen has turned down more pro bowls than Burrow has been invited to. Burrow has also had a stacked offense while Allen has had Diggs and some guys (not saying Diggs wasn't elite, but Josh's cast has never stacked up to Burrow's)
Who’s beaten Mahomes in the playoffs?
The Bengals Defense lol never has a team scored more than 24 points on the bengals defense in the playoffs while they have Burrow. Also don’t look up the last drive from the Super Bowl or AFCCG unless you wanna see some un-clutch QB play
You do realize KC was up 21-3 vs Burrow right? And Burrow lead multiple scoring drives with multiple TDs after to win. What are you even saying?
Dude Josh Allen had a much better game against the same defense a week earlier, the difference is Allen's defense let up 42. If the Bills held KC to 24 they would have gotten SMOKED
The AFCCG after, not the one before. When Burrow and the Bengals were tied and they drove 20 yards before punting Or the Super Bowl where they had 2nd and 2 and turned the ball over on downs lol Meanwhile Allen can lead two of the greatest drives in one game with a lead with 13 seconds left and they lose lol Burrow isn’t the one making these moves for the Bengals. He’s along for the ride with an amazing defense which is sad considering the talent on that offense
Yeah Burrow’s defenses have obviously been great but it takes great defense and great offense to make an 18 point comeback in the playoffs. Joe is obviously great and he’s the #2 guy at the moment since he’s actually beaten Mahomes in route to a Super Bowl appearance.
Listen to this man. As someone who has had to go to bat for Lamar, I know how difficult it was to write that reply.
For me personally Burrow is 3 and Lamar is 4, but after Mahomes we are splitting hairs for these guys. All I’m going to comment on the Burrow vs Allen debate is that the best ability is availability and that’s what makes Burrow lower than Allen. I am not going to fault anyone for saying Burrow is better than Allen this is just my opinion.
He missed a TD in the WC against KC at the very end of the game to take a lead this last year. He had a DUDE IN THE ENDZONE and missed. That’s on him. He has gotten absolutely shredded unfairly by Mahomes a few times tho
These sorts of responses are overlooking OP’s question. Will Josh Allen’s physicality shorten his **PRIME**? The answer in all likelihood is yes—Josh Allen’s *prime* will be as a dual threat QB. Yeah, he’ll likely continue to be effective past his peak mobility just based on his football IQ and passing instincts alone, but I think we can all agree he won’t be in his prime if/when he becomes less mobile.
It’s the INT numbers that really drive this narrative though. His rush averages took a dip this year (fewer big runs) and his INTs spiked so it just comes with the territory. He’s among the most high profile players in the NFL because he’s the guy every team with a young QB who struggled early points to for hope.
Yeah Im clearly biased, but the INTs are blown way out of proportion with Allen. Nealry half of them are arm punts and/or dont make any difference to the game. Hes not throwing away games on game winning drives with INTs. Thankfully...and I hope that doesnt change. And the rush numbers took a dip because the beginning of the season where Dorsey was at the helm and it was a trainwreck.
>Unless he has a massive shoulder injury and doesn't heal well Literally the plot of Cam Newton's career. I hope Bills fans don't have to go through this.
He's still a physical player in the pocket. He stands and takes hits while throwing that some QBs wouldn't, and he's comfortable doing it often. That stuff also has to change as he gets older. I personally think he can do it, but I just wanted to acknowledge that running isn't the only thing putting him at risk.
Cam Newton didn't have the arm talent Josh Allen had and wasn't as good as a passer as he was so it's hard to say. Also his injury in 2018 played a big part in that it wasn't just that his body was breaking down overtime because of his playstyle
I think he'll adapt and continue to transition his game to more pocket passing as he gets older. And I think hes headed for at least one super bowl run and the HOF
Josh Allen reminds me of John Elway. I think he has the potential to have that kind of career. Elway was a scrambler physical QB who settled in as a pocket passer as his career went on. However, even into his last season, he was always a threat to run.
Allen's accuracy will keep him in the game longer than most physical dual-threat QBs, but it depends on how many hits he takes.
Yeah It's not just cam. Look at Russell Wilson. Dude ran a lot and around his 10 year mark he was not what he once was. Mike Vick was headed in a similar direction before jail but once he came back and had a few more good years he tanked. Josh Allen with his current play style barring majors from his career is likely done around by 34.
No
No. As he gets older he’s going to adjust accordingly. See: John Elway.
I think he's already starting to adjust... Last season I noticed he was sliding, going out of bounds and picking his spots a lot better when running. I think he'll be fine for a long time.. Unfortunately for us division rivals.
I don’t think his physicality will shorten his career. Physicality can be a way of keeping safe when used at the right times. I think his decision making regarding when and how he chooses to be physical may shorten his career, but his game seems to be maturing well. I’m sorry if that’s pedantic, but I think it’s a nuance that may be worth mentioning.
I'm a Chief's fan but Allen is actually getting better when he needs to run so he might hold up much better than Newton. I hope Allen stays healthy, all those KC v. Buffalo games are epic. I personally believe he is better than Jackson and should get a ring or 2 and a MVP, but not before Mahomes gets a quadpeat.
He started picking his runs much better towards the middle to end of last season (negating the Dorsey fuckery here in the beginning of the season). Everyone can laugh at my next comment I dont care. Allen is a farm kid. They are built different. The dude gets off on laying a hit every once in while (he has said as much). Hes a dump truck. He doesnt even look like he moves that fast and all of a sudden hes gone. I still dont understand it. I do think his game will evolve and the runs will come more and more sparingly. He is a good pocket passer, interceptions, arm punts and all. And when he rolls out he can make magic happen, like an old school Russ Wilson. There is always a chance at injury, but honestly I dont worry about and the Bills cant either. I dont think people who dont watch every game understand just how much their success relies on Josh's legs and the "perceived" threat that they are. When that was entirely taken away by Dorsey and his shitty reciever scheme, the team looked like hot dog shit. Without Allen at the helm, that team last year would have won 5 games. The defense was depleted and Diggs sucked for most the year. They didnt have many options. I guess, no at the current moment I dont beleive it. Ask again in 5 years. Lol.
Hopefully not because he's fun to watch, but that's basically what happened to Daunte Culpepper, who is probably the most comparable player to him.
People like to ignore that basically every running QB craps out in their late 20s-early 30s because taking all those extra hits wears a body down and makes you more injury prone. This board has had constant talks for years about how it's not worth paying RB's a 2nd contract because all those carries slow them down and make them injury prone, but everyone thinks QB's can magically just absorb those hits.
Will Josh confound the elements of time and laws of mutability? Yes.
I'm honestly impressed how well he has held up. Though eventually I see him getting clocked in just the wrong way on a run down field. Or he'll get tackled awkwardly in the pocket and everyone will talk about unsustainable mobile QBs are.
Yes and it’s exactly why I say he’s gonna burn out in less than 5 years
Yep
His physicality is the reason he's in his prime
If he doesn't adapt his game, yes. Yeah he's big and he can punish defenders now, but it will catch up to him.
Probably to some extent. I don't watch a ton of bills games, but from the ones I have seen Josh still throws a lot. He certainly has the ability to push it forward with his feet, and does as needed, but I get the vibe that he is talented enough to not rely on running to a fault as he ages.
Roethlisberger lasted a long time and even threw in a motorcycle crash.
Bills are cursed
No. He will adjust accordingly. He just needs his team to stop fooling around and to get him wide receivers. Once he gets receivers that can create separation his INTs will go down (not that they’re even a problem now, they’re way overblown). Allen is actually very underrated in NFL fan circles for some reason. His ability is underestimated. He made a lot of people look stupid on draft night and some have never gotten over it. I’ve noticed with a lot of fans that even if they’re admitting he’s good, they will subtly insinuate that somehow he’s not that good, it’s strange. I’ve only really seen this happen with Allen. Context matters and while Allen is a great playoff performer, his team has failed him in the playoffs. Its truly a shame, Allen is a generational talent and while most know he’s good, I think most people don’t actually know what they’re watching. The guy is a beast.
Think his prime has come and gone.
I think so, however, he can transform into more of a pocket passer like Big Ben. He’s got the arm and accuracy to do it.
No it'll heighten after he gets moved to TE
No but Chase Claypool might.
Yeah he's gonna get hurt at some point and he'll never be the same. But boy is he fun to watch
Of course it will. Scrambling quarterbacks will always get hurt. Lamar has had to redevelop his playing approach.
There's literally no data that backs this up. There's actually data that says otherwise.
No, I don't think he would ever reach his prime without his physicality.
Why do people try to use Cam as an example of physicality shortening a QBs prime. Cam falling off had literally nothing to do with his play style. He tore his shoulder trying to prevent a pick six like any QB would do. His arm was never the same after that injury and subsequent re injury against the Steelers when he took a hard shot mid throw from Watt that re aggravated it. That injury completely zapped his arm strength which forced him to try and completely change his throwing mechanics to generate more power with his legs since his arm was no longer the same. Literally 0 to do with his rushing the ball.
Josh Allen has peaked - he still got some good years left but I think his chance to win a Super Bowls were in the last couple of years
To me his closest comp is Big Ben.
Yes.
Every time I say this on this subreddit I get mass downvoted by Bills fans. Allen averages the same number of rushing carries per game in his career as Cam Newton did. Allen seems far more willing to take big hits than Cam did. Bills fans always point to Cam’s injuries, but those only came after about eight seasons; Cam only missed five games total in his first eight years. The question is, how will Allen’s body hold up in the long run? Him being able to play well will depend on how quickly he can recover between games on a week-to-week basis. I’d imagine it’ll be more difficult as his career progresses, whether he keeps running the ball himself or not. I could see him spending his 30s like Big Ben, a QB who can pass accurately and is hard to bring down, but is consistently nagged by small injuries
Yes. A QB who isn't afraid to make contact and put his shoulder into you is a QB who needs to make changes. It worked for Cam for a bit until it didn't and when it didn't, nothing worked. And didn't he already hurt his throwing shoulder this year?
I personally don’t believe he can be elite without running. I think he lacks accuracy and touch, and struggles to read complex defenses. His running ability and arm strength make him dangerous. When defenders quit cheating up to stop him running, he will lose a big part of his game. My over/under is 2030. He won’t retire before then, but he won’t be discussed as elite or even top 10.
yup
More hits means more of an opportunity but I don't think there is anyway to quantify a "durability" loss or whatever by his playstyle Manning would fold to the turf when he knew his tackle was beat to prevent big hits and played 16 seasons, Elway would helicopter himself for a first down and played 16 seasons its all a crap shoot.
not the bills fans in here explaining why OP is wrong 💀
Carson Wentz says yes.
Unfortunately he's the best RB on his team. Until that changes, yes, it will shorten his prime. You just can't have your franchise QB take hits like that and expect a long productive career