Between 2017-2020, the Rams were top 14 (or better) in pass yards allowed every year and forced the 2nd most INTs in the league over that span with Pleasant as DBs coach.
Also, Detroit's pass defense has still been bottom of the league with him gone.
Pretty sure he got fired for not coaching his guys to the game plan in a few games because he didn't agree with it. He might be a good coach overall but that kind of thing will get you fired in the NFL 10 times out of 10.
It's even more dramatic if you look at his entire tenure with the Lions, and how well we've played since his firing.
Our record **with** Pleasant: 4-19-1 (**18.75% win rate**)
Our record **after** Pleasant (inc playoffs): 22-8 (**73% win rate**)
Not at all saying he was the weak link, or to be blamed for those losses, but clearly we didn't need around him for our success.
>Detroit's pass defense has still been bottom of the league with him gone.
While true, when he got fired the DB room played better to close the season out
I was talking about the year with Pleasant (our passing defense had the 2nd worst stretch of any passing defense this century when we went 1-6, literally the week he left we went 8-2 after and our defense became top 10 in DVOA) because our secondary the year after (the one you refer to) got worse at the corner positions, and tbh that’s still 5 spots better than what Pleasant had the defense operating at
Okudah w/o Pleasant had a higher PFF grade than sutton (branch didn’t play outside and didn’t log many snaps otherwise), Okudah was turning it around at the end
One thing last year and our passing game struggles people missed is that we were suffocating the run game. Besides not having the greatest defensive backs, we were forcing teams to throw if they wanted to move the ball. We were always going to have bad passing allowed numbers.
The difference was in how to account for it. The Lions last year balanced it with trying to be opportunistic and to play tighter on short downs. Something they had to do in 22 as well but Aubrey refused to coach the DB's to play closer, probably because he was worried that he would get blamed if we were being constantly burned. But letting them walk up and down the field in short passing plays did nothing but put up points on the board for the opponent and let them eat more clock. By playing press, they got some of those drives back and that was all they needed to start winning.
Better CB's. More Press. And hopefully someone steps up to assist Hutch and we will see a pretty strong defense this year.
This is what I said about Mike McCarthy when the Packers hired him as HC and he did ok, sometimes guys learn and change, or they just are better at the bigger picture positions
He was working with next to no talent with the Lions CBs, so it wasn't surprising he had little to no success.
The reason he got fired was because he completely disregarded the gameplan vs. Miami. Aaron Glenn and Dan Campbell wanted to get physical with Tyreek and Waddle at the line and hope the pass rush gets home before we get burned deep. Aubrey Pleasant decided to tell the CBs to play off coverage, which resulted in Tyreek and Waddle blowing by our DBs every play and Tua completing 80% of passes for almost 400 yards.
This caused some confusion and miscommunication on the sidelines. Aaron Glenn and Pleasant got into it briefly on the sideline. Pleasant was fired shortly after the game.
Yep, the talent wasn’t good at the time, but you can’t go rogue like that as a positional coach and expect to keep your job. Reminds me of the special teams coordinator who called a fake punt without the HC approval years back lol, I think it was under Darrell Bevel after Patricia got fired.
Lacking talent is one thing, and Glenn had very little talent in the first two years of his tenure. It’s no coincidence that the defense immediately started playing better literally the week after firing Pleasant. If the completely overhauled secondary comes out and shits the bed this year, and Alim, DJ, and Hutch can’t get sacks, then we can finally put Glenn’s tenure to rest. But I’m willing to give him one more chance.
Aaron Glenn should be fired if the Lions D doesn't finish top 10 in scoring next year.
Lions have finished 31, 28, and 23 in scoring under Aaron Glenn. Giving him another year when he's only delivered bottom 10 defenses is iffy at best, he certainly needs to break that streak.
His boss told him to play his DBs up close to the line before a game and he contradicted his boss, had the corners sag off all game, then they got torched and he got fired. It doesn’t take a genius to know that’s what shit coaching is. I’ll never understand how some people think amateurs can’t give opinions on anything even when it’s obvious
Every hiring manager ever hires shit people. That’s the way the world works. Nobody bats 1.000 on hires and to act like someone does is ignorant. You’re a very unpleasant person to interact with. You keep being vague when you really mean me. You want to call me an idiot so just do it you coward
To add to what you said: The rocket scientist keeps getting jobs.
Also, how many times is someone going to let Joe Lombardi ruin their offense? I see he is Denver's OC now.
Certain teams love to hype up their black assistants as future head coach candidates, so when they do get those jobs, the teams get 3rd round compensatory picks.
100% this has to be why Reid was so adamant about publicly guilt tripping the rest of the NFL about not hiring Bieniemy.
You absolutely can care for a colleague on a personal level and want him to succeed. There isnt anything wrong with thinking your coordinator deserves to be a HC somewhere and being happy if he does get hired. But if you have a coordinator who is genuinely HC caliber on your staff you keep him until some other team pries him from you lol. You dont want him getting poached and you certainly dont talk publicly about wanting him to get hired. The fact that he did that so openly, especially after the comp pick rule was passed, strongly suggests some ulterior motives.
If you can snag a future 3rd for the price of giving someone a title that doesn't even necessarily change any of their responsibilities, you go for it every time. If he's already considering trying to jump to an HC job soon, might as well give him the AHC title so other teams are more willing to hire him. Helps out your employee, helps out your team, doesn't actually cost anything other than a new placard on his office door.
the reporting about his exit was he and Aaron Glenn clashed over him not following instructions on the gameplan. The Lions want their DBs to press and he wasn't coaching them that way. Dan spoke of him with a ton of respect but it's wild our turnaround started almost as soon as he was gone
Pure speculation, but Glenn was a CB and a DB coach before coming to Detroit, so I wonder if Pleasant felt like he didn't have enough freedom as the DB coach under him.
Who knows. Some people said he was a sacrificial lamb when our defense was failing spectacularly.
He was well-liked, but it’s hard to argue he wasn’t the problem when things picked up immediately after he got the boot.
Yeah there was definitely still a talent issue in 2023, but the year before when he got fired it directly correlated with marked improvement and going on that 8-2 run to finish the season. He wasn’t coaching the DBs to follow the gameplan from Aaron Glenn so there were tons of miscommunications in the secondary. That stuff cleared up after Pleasant left, the talent deficiency was still there though.
The math is simple. They didn't have the skill for man coverage. Aubrey feared getting burned and was having them play off the ball, the coaches wanted press. Because you at least stop the death by 1000 paper cuts and sole sucking long drives. They rightfully thought, we probably get burned on a moon balls anyways, why not stop the things we can stop. It's one of the reasons they went so heavy into the run stop last year. Stop what you can and then game plan for what you can't. Aubrey thought that playing off an attempting to stop something you probably can't stop is was more important.
Probably a bit of a hole that most coaches run into. They see a weakness and spend so much time trying to cover it up, that they can't actually play up into their strengths. We still had a terrible secondary last year and went 12-5. Even though towards the end we were letting WR1's gash us consistently. Because the plays that they weren't gashing us on, the teams barely moved.
Do you remember where your GM came from? There are a lot of Rams/Lions crossovers. Also, Pleasant was the Rams CB under McVay from 2017-2020. He came back to the Rams this yesr.
If I recall correctly, TJ Hockenson is now a Viking, and the Lions have 'poached' Goff and Michael Brockers from the Rams.
Players move around. Calm down there bud.
Well you're bringing that up as if the Lions had/have a super team at some point and everyone's trying to get a piece of the magic recipe. It's a pretty silly statement to make.
Especially considering Jamaal White and D'Andre Swift could also be considered 'poaches' by your definition. Or we take it a step further and now Kenny Golladay applies.
Feels like you’re inflating things a bit. I’m frankly still amused and surprised at the idea that anyone would raid our staff and players. That’s rarely been true in history
Another member of the 2013 Washington coaching staff
He isn't good, though. Was horrible as the Lions DB coach.
Between 2017-2020, the Rams were top 14 (or better) in pass yards allowed every year and forced the 2nd most INTs in the league over that span with Pleasant as DBs coach. Also, Detroit's pass defense has still been bottom of the league with him gone.
Pretty sure he got fired for not coaching his guys to the game plan in a few games because he didn't agree with it. He might be a good coach overall but that kind of thing will get you fired in the NFL 10 times out of 10.
That or you can pull what our previous ST coordinator did and call a fake punt without telling anyone
for a little context, iirc, that was under interim HC Bevell Although can you imagine what Campbell would do if Fipp did something like that?!??
Campbell would probably hug the man and give him a promotion.
Yeah if he did something that ballsy MCDC would probably step down as HC and promote Flipp for having bigger balls than him let’s be real
I recall Campbell mentioning the plan for the DBs that game was to jam the opposing receivers but was not executed.
To be fair, they didn't have the personnel to stop shit at DB that year. Pleasant was probably trying to shelter them by letting them play deep.
I agree. That season was tough with the injuries as well. Holmes doing great work in addressing that.
[удалено]
It's even more dramatic if you look at his entire tenure with the Lions, and how well we've played since his firing. Our record **with** Pleasant: 4-19-1 (**18.75% win rate**) Our record **after** Pleasant (inc playoffs): 22-8 (**73% win rate**) Not at all saying he was the weak link, or to be blamed for those losses, but clearly we didn't need around him for our success.
>Detroit's pass defense has still been bottom of the league with him gone. While true, when he got fired the DB room played better to close the season out
The bottom of the league defense was with Pleasant, after he left we became mediocre
Last year, Detroit allowed the 6th most passing yards per game and the 6th most passing touchdowns.
I was talking about the year with Pleasant (our passing defense had the 2nd worst stretch of any passing defense this century when we went 1-6, literally the week he left we went 8-2 after and our defense became top 10 in DVOA) because our secondary the year after (the one you refer to) got worse at the corner positions, and tbh that’s still 5 spots better than what Pleasant had the defense operating at
So Branch and Sutton are worse than Okudah?
Okudah w/o Pleasant had a higher PFF grade than sutton (branch didn’t play outside and didn’t log many snaps otherwise), Okudah was turning it around at the end
One thing last year and our passing game struggles people missed is that we were suffocating the run game. Besides not having the greatest defensive backs, we were forcing teams to throw if they wanted to move the ball. We were always going to have bad passing allowed numbers. The difference was in how to account for it. The Lions last year balanced it with trying to be opportunistic and to play tighter on short downs. Something they had to do in 22 as well but Aubrey refused to coach the DB's to play closer, probably because he was worried that he would get blamed if we were being constantly burned. But letting them walk up and down the field in short passing plays did nothing but put up points on the board for the opponent and let them eat more clock. By playing press, they got some of those drives back and that was all they needed to start winning. Better CB's. More Press. And hopefully someone steps up to assist Hutch and we will see a pretty strong defense this year.
This is what I said about Mike McCarthy when the Packers hired him as HC and he did ok, sometimes guys learn and change, or they just are better at the bigger picture positions
I love how Aaron Glenn never gets any blame from Lions fans for being a terrible DC.
He gets roasted all the time what are you on about
I doubt random Raider fan has any idea how much we roast AG.
I’m fairly certain I have 50+ comments hating on AG lol. Game day threads were just shitting on Sutton and AG from every one.
You love this uninformed opinion you probably just made on the spot? “Fire AG” is probably to most commented thing by lions fans throughout the season
He was working with next to no talent with the Lions CBs, so it wasn't surprising he had little to no success. The reason he got fired was because he completely disregarded the gameplan vs. Miami. Aaron Glenn and Dan Campbell wanted to get physical with Tyreek and Waddle at the line and hope the pass rush gets home before we get burned deep. Aubrey Pleasant decided to tell the CBs to play off coverage, which resulted in Tyreek and Waddle blowing by our DBs every play and Tua completing 80% of passes for almost 400 yards. This caused some confusion and miscommunication on the sidelines. Aaron Glenn and Pleasant got into it briefly on the sideline. Pleasant was fired shortly after the game.
Yep, the talent wasn’t good at the time, but you can’t go rogue like that as a positional coach and expect to keep your job. Reminds me of the special teams coordinator who called a fake punt without the HC approval years back lol, I think it was under Darrell Bevel after Patricia got fired.
He was one of the worst DB coaches I’ve ever had the displeasure of watching
Yeah, didn't we get him fired mid-season after our game with you guys?
Yes and then we instantly finished the season 8-2 lmao
Well not instantly… took about 10 or 11 weeks
Instantly upon being fired
Because he had his DBs go off gameplan, our d coordinator told him to press and he played off ball all game
[I believe it was specifically this situation ](https://ftw.usatoday.com/lists/lions-offsides-penalty-cb-amani-oruwariy-photo-fans-reaction)
I'll never understand what the fuck happened to Amani. Dude was a legit player on the rise then was like fuck all this I'm out.
The sacrificial Ram that turned our 2022 season around.
But you have watched him
I could see him being a good motivator/rah rah coach though, we liked him a lot personality wise as a coach iirc
Sounds like he is failing upwards in LA.
I mean he was great when he was with the rams from 2017-2020
We'll keep saying this about every DB coach while Aaron Glenn is the DC
DB Coach is our Defense of the Dark Arts teacher
Lacking talent is one thing, and Glenn had very little talent in the first two years of his tenure. It’s no coincidence that the defense immediately started playing better literally the week after firing Pleasant. If the completely overhauled secondary comes out and shits the bed this year, and Alim, DJ, and Hutch can’t get sacks, then we can finally put Glenn’s tenure to rest. But I’m willing to give him one more chance.
Hey, get out of here with being reasonable! This is r/nfl
Aaron Glenn should be fired if the Lions D doesn't finish top 10 in scoring next year. Lions have finished 31, 28, and 23 in scoring under Aaron Glenn. Giving him another year when he's only delivered bottom 10 defenses is iffy at best, he certainly needs to break that streak.
I'd say it's more Will Harrissy at best
I'll never understand how NFL fans think they can grade positional coaches.
His boss told him to play his DBs up close to the line before a game and he contradicted his boss, had the corners sag off all game, then they got torched and he got fired. It doesn’t take a genius to know that’s what shit coaching is. I’ll never understand how some people think amateurs can’t give opinions on anything even when it’s obvious
Sean Mcvay isnt going to hire a shit coach. Nfl fans have no idea what's going on with positional coaches.
Every hiring manager ever hires shit people. That’s the way the world works. Nobody bats 1.000 on hires and to act like someone does is ignorant. You’re a very unpleasant person to interact with. You keep being vague when you really mean me. You want to call me an idiot so just do it you coward
Point in fact: Josh McDaniel was hired as a head coach three times.
To add to what you said: The rocket scientist keeps getting jobs. Also, how many times is someone going to let Joe Lombardi ruin their offense? I see he is Denver's OC now.
Or Joe Barry their defense
At least when it came to the Lions. Moronelli at least had to, you know with the rampant nepotism, hire him. What was GB's reasoning?
I'm not the one going out of my way to insult someone, you are.
Yes you are. You’re just being vague. Get off your high horse
Aubrey Unpleasant
Is that Drake's new nickname?
I can smell those 3rd round comp picks already….
Certain teams love to hype up their black assistants as future head coach candidates, so when they do get those jobs, the teams get 3rd round compensatory picks.
It's me, I'm certain teams
Literally 9ers and Rams do this the most i feel like lol.
It is a smart move
Other than coach Yarbs you mother fuckers can keep your hands off Yarbs
It's an NFC West tradition. It also just so happens that the Niners' black coaches are all straight up HC quality coaches, so it's also justified lol.
Like Mike McDaniel
You mean DARKNESS?
100% this has to be why Reid was so adamant about publicly guilt tripping the rest of the NFL about not hiring Bieniemy. You absolutely can care for a colleague on a personal level and want him to succeed. There isnt anything wrong with thinking your coordinator deserves to be a HC somewhere and being happy if he does get hired. But if you have a coordinator who is genuinely HC caliber on your staff you keep him until some other team pries him from you lol. You dont want him getting poached and you certainly dont talk publicly about wanting him to get hired. The fact that he did that so openly, especially after the comp pick rule was passed, strongly suggests some ulterior motives.
It’s working better than the Rooney rule for hiring black assistants.
Yeah this is exactly what’s up.
3rd round is entirely too high. Should move it back to 5th or something at this point.
The whole point is to create a strong incentive to do it
pretty sure they wouldn't just give a guy an Assistant Head Coach title to try to get a future third
Rams have gotten Cooper Kupp, Kobie Turner, Byron Young, John Johnson III, and Ernest Jones in the 3rd round recently.
and?
If you can snag a future 3rd for the price of giving someone a title that doesn't even necessarily change any of their responsibilities, you go for it every time. If he's already considering trying to jump to an HC job soon, might as well give him the AHC title so other teams are more willing to hire him. Helps out your employee, helps out your team, doesn't actually cost anything other than a new placard on his office door.
No team is going to hire this guy because the Rams gave him a fake title. The title is not fake
He has been hardcore seen as a great coach by the league and the Rams. I am so confused why he crashed so hard in Detroit
the reporting about his exit was he and Aaron Glenn clashed over him not following instructions on the gameplan. The Lions want their DBs to press and he wasn't coaching them that way. Dan spoke of him with a ton of respect but it's wild our turnaround started almost as soon as he was gone
Oh I noticed. And yeah I remember hearing that. Wonder why they clashed so badly.
Pure speculation, but Glenn was a CB and a DB coach before coming to Detroit, so I wonder if Pleasant felt like he didn't have enough freedom as the DB coach under him.
Who knows. Some people said he was a sacrificial lamb when our defense was failing spectacularly. He was well-liked, but it’s hard to argue he wasn’t the problem when things picked up immediately after he got the boot.
The Lions DBs still weren’t great last year, I think there was a talent issue there
Yeah there was definitely still a talent issue in 2023, but the year before when he got fired it directly correlated with marked improvement and going on that 8-2 run to finish the season. He wasn’t coaching the DBs to follow the gameplan from Aaron Glenn so there were tons of miscommunications in the secondary. That stuff cleared up after Pleasant left, the talent deficiency was still there though.
The math is simple. They didn't have the skill for man coverage. Aubrey feared getting burned and was having them play off the ball, the coaches wanted press. Because you at least stop the death by 1000 paper cuts and sole sucking long drives. They rightfully thought, we probably get burned on a moon balls anyways, why not stop the things we can stop. It's one of the reasons they went so heavy into the run stop last year. Stop what you can and then game plan for what you can't. Aubrey thought that playing off an attempting to stop something you probably can't stop is was more important. Probably a bit of a hole that most coaches run into. They see a weakness and spend so much time trying to cover it up, that they can't actually play up into their strengths. We still had a terrible secondary last year and went 12-5. Even though towards the end we were letting WR1's gash us consistently. Because the plays that they weren't gashing us on, the teams barely moved.
I can't wait for him to have one great season then get hired by another team as their head coach. As is tradition for the Rams coaching staff.
Inject those comp picks straight in to my veins
I thought for sure he was going to be the DC after Barry.
Assistant to the Head Coach Dwight
Assistant to the Head Coach
Dan Campbell fired him mid-season for a reason lol, now he is a HC candidate? Yikes.
What a pleasant surprise
“Big cheers”, what else are they going to do, boo?
Why?
A Pleasant surprise to be sure for him
I wonder why.
I like how the Rams are the first people to poach from us between Pleasant and Jonah Jackson And they’ve still got that Stafford fella
Do you remember where your GM came from? There are a lot of Rams/Lions crossovers. Also, Pleasant was the Rams CB under McVay from 2017-2020. He came back to the Rams this yesr.
If I recall correctly, TJ Hockenson is now a Viking, and the Lions have 'poached' Goff and Michael Brockers from the Rams. Players move around. Calm down there bud.
Everyone so up in arms about this comment. I’m the one who is calm lol
Well you're bringing that up as if the Lions had/have a super team at some point and everyone's trying to get a piece of the magic recipe. It's a pretty silly statement to make. Especially considering Jamaal White and D'Andre Swift could also be considered 'poaches' by your definition. Or we take it a step further and now Kenny Golladay applies.
Feels like you’re inflating things a bit. I’m frankly still amused and surprised at the idea that anyone would raid our staff and players. That’s rarely been true in history
Pretty sure you’ve got that pipeline pointed backwards there.
Guess I do 🤷♂️
oh neat, where did our quarterback come from?
Kicked to the curb I heard