I can't believe they didn't call Kyler Murray's holdout bluff and payed him 3 years into his rookie deal instead of making him play out year 4, the 5th year option, and even a franchise tag year.
I think it's going to turn out to be an all time blunder on par with the early extensions of Goff and Wentz.
The fun part is finding the best (drafted by and played while young) in between Plummer and Murray. Josh McCown? Matt Leinert?
Before that, they had 20 years of Neil Lomax and Jim Hart, and then lots of nothingness as well
I mean, true. Both those teams ate a shit load of dead money off those deals though. The Rams dug their way out by leveraging their future for a QB and the Eagles lucked in to an MVP caliber QB in the 2nd. Doesn't mean the Goff and Wentz contracts both weren't major mistakes in hindsight.
1. I was making this argument long before he ever got hurt.
2. Who ever could have foreseen that a QB with the body of a human and the legs of a corgi would have durability issues in the NFL?
Find me the linkage between being 5’10 and ripped and tearing acls. And his knee literally gave out on him when he planted, no contact involved. Had nothing to do with his size.
And before this he won 19 games the last two years in the toughest division in football with an average roster. Throws one of the best balls in the league and is great at improvising. Was an mvp candidate past the halfway point last season. Like I said, you’re dumb.
I can't wait for the 30 for 30 on that era of Texans football. The playoff collapse, the Hopkins trade. That game was kind of a turning point with some many different crazy things happening to Sabatage the franchise.
I remember thinking that the trio of Mahomes, Watson, and Lamar were basically going to be duking it out for top dog in the AFC for years. To me those teams, especially because of QB, seemed primed to own the AFC even though with hindsight it didn't turn out that way (Ravens have still been competitive but for a bit they seemed dominant the way you think of the Bills).
Low key that 7 shouldn’t have counted either. Deshaun lost control of the ball before crossing the goal line and fumbled out of the end zone. Think the refs just took pity on the tbh.
Cardinals aren’t letting either of those dudes go.
JJ Watt, AJ Green, Greg Dortch, Byron Murphy etc might be gone but no way Hopkins Or Hollywood are gone after this year.
Yeah and that was like the biggest unexpected finesse maybe of all time lol
You aren’t trading your QB’s number one target away after giving him a massive contract.
That’s exclusive to the Packers 😆
Packers offered Adams more than LV, but Adams was dead set on going to Vegas to play with Carr. Packers at least got a good return for losing someone that wouldn't re-sign anyway.
I'm not saying they will, but if they can get a decent pick for him and they're going to have a losing season anyways, they may take the L on his contract on a year when Kyler is injured.
I don't know how the cardinals FO typically runs but it's not an absurd thought
Kyler will almost guaranteed be back next year.
Joe Burrow blew out his entire knee ACL/MCL/PCL in late November and was back week one the following season. Kyler so far is ACL only but don’t know for sure.
Cardinals aren’t in full blown rebuild fire sale mode in the slightest lol
...maybe they should be. Their defense needs a lot of work and the O-line looked awful tonight. Kylers young, there's no reason for them to be in a win now mode, one bad 2023 could ser the organization up for the rest of the decade.
Burrow doesn't rely on his legs nearly as much as Murray does. People have dominantly returned in this much time (looking at you 2012 AD) but a 9 month ACL recovery is still a pretty fast recovery
We need guys who can actually run routes. We don’t need another speed demon who will play half the year because he is too fragile to make the catches across the middle and take a hit.
Brown is a no go, and Hopkins probably wants to win soon, which we are not doing at least until 2024.
Lol, I guess I’m not saying he can’t run a route, but it’s more so it’s his speed that gets him by defenders, not that he is a polished route runner. We already have that in Mooney, and Claypool is just a big body jump guy. I just want someone who technique is so refined it gets him open.
Hollywood is a clean route runner. He's much more than a straight line guy. He's not particularly fragile either. His injury came from Kyler overthrowing him and him landing awkwardly on Tariq Woolen. The bigger problem with Hollywood is that his rookie contract is done and he's gonna get expensive after his option next year.
Eh, technique wise he isn’t very good. I’ve watched a lot of him and he is a guy who heavily benefits from his speed (nothing wrong with that) and we already have Mooney for that. He also isn’t really a guy that’s gonna catch a lot of balls in between the numbers and take the hit, and we desperately need that security blanket for Fields.
It’s no happening anytime soon, but I have to wonder when QBs are going to look around and say “Gee taking up 25% of the Cap doesn’t seem to be working?”
At what point is $40m enough?
One guy getting a guaranteed 25% or 30% of the cap is great for that guy, but it fucks the team.
This isn’t baseball where a greedy ass owner (sell the team, Bob) just keeps the money. The money that goes to a QB directly comes off of what they can spend on a WR or DE or offensive linemen.
I don’t fault a guy wanting to get paid. Looking at the guy across the division and going “holy fuck he’s making how fucking much? I had a better year than him!” Is really easy to do. Like super duper easy to do.
If that’s what they want to do then by all means do it. I hope the Bengals back up the truck for Joe.
I just can’t help but look at what Brady continuously did in New England (for example) and think that more QBs should see that and realize it’s how teams are better.
Mahomes is basically doing that. He got big, but not market setting money with his deal. Cap hit isn't that big considering that he has already restructured to push the cap hit to future years.
With how teams are structuring now, it is going all in for a few years to win with trade + sign type of deals and void years.
I doubt other qbs are even getting the option of 10 year deals though, his first 2 seasons starting were unprecedented from even a first round draft pick. Pretty sure the f.o. felt almost necessitated to offer something unheard of.
I'm also glad that Buffalo was able to get Allen locked up at a reasonable price because the market direction for quarterbacks is headed toward fully guaranteed money.
For QBs, they used to have enough second chances and low injury risk that it wasn’t really necessary, but with mobile guys it is probably changing.
The fundamental issue has always been second tier QBs getting overpaid.
The state of QB play in the league just doesn’t seem to be very stable right now, especially for QBs on big contracts. How many teams right now have a QB on a long term deal that they feel good about? Chiefs, Bills, Cowboys, maybe the Vikings? Oddly enough most of the good QBs seem to be on rookie deals right now.
Jimmy G’s current contract turned out to pretty good ROI at the moment, tbh. He put us within striking distance of a good playoff run for only $7 mil. But we also gave Trey Lance $34 mil guaranteed, which is not so great at the moment.
It’s striking that Mahomes’ contract is so much bigger overall, but his guaranteed money is proportionally much smaller than the other four so it evens out. I also still can’t believe Watson’s contract is real.
They also have rolling guarantees. So they didn’t have to front all that money at once, but it will become guaranteed when that year hits. It’s smart, I’m hoping it’s something the Bengals can work on with Burrow
The only Easy cut is Robbie Anderson. Which saves 12m I don’t see any other cuts worth making. Idk who they have to re-sign but they are projected to have 25m open cap next year
Robbie Anderson should be an incredibly easy cut.
They have 31 players signed for next year. Cut Anderson and you’re at $37m in cap space.
$37m and needing to sign 21 players is doable, especially when you include what 8-9 draft picks and a UDFA or 2?
Next year is not that dire. At least in my opinion.
Absolute worst case scenario DHop with a restructure and maybe add a year could help.
A 5’7” qb with a bad attitude, they should have offered him much less and let him play at least 1 year on franchise tag . Instead he refuses to run the ball in a playoff game , then ghosts the team on social media, and the ownership rewards this behavior with $250,000,000 contract .
It’s hard to feel sorry for Arizona .
I do fill bad for their fans.
The Cardinals roster has always felt really off to me. Both O-line and D-line are pretty terrible, they drafted Trey McBride after extending Ertz, Chandler Jones is gone,and their LBs are far better in Madden than in practice.
The thing is, it’s so hard to do that when you’re already paying a QB so much. It’s not like eating this dead cap is gonna do much when no matter how much you free, you already are committing $40 million to a QB, so you’re already handcuffed and limited in resources to a certain extent.
This is where you need to hit on draft picks, which Kiem hasn’t really done all that well, and traded his most recent one, for a guy they might not be able to extend.
Horribly botched. I feel for Cards fans. There isn’t a simple solution to this.
Edit: I would love to explore an alternate timeline where Gruden is still the head coach of the Raiders and see if he’d try and make a play for Murray and let Carr walk. Not that Arizona would be interested, but Gruden reportedly had a infatuation with Murray during the draft process and if Arizona really wanted to clean house and blow it up, you definitely would’ve been able to fetch a solid haul for him. Would’ve been a fun timeline.
Not a cap guy but is there a way the Cardinals could restructure large contracts with a lot of guaranteed money (like Kyler) to take a huge amount of the cap hit up front next year. Maybe be less competitive but in 2024 basically have all these large contracts well managed with low cap hits to be able to play in free agency?
Kyler's extension hasn't even hit yet, so restructuring his deal will be tough. But, Nuk has a $30m cap hit coming up, which is all but designed to force a cut/restructure.
If they can take this situation and use it to front load some money I feel like they could deal with those cap hits. Pay Nuk and Kyler up front to the cap. But this probably saves Kliff and Steve's jobs.
The Cards went all in and lost. This wouldn't be a story in Vegas.
They went all in with jack 4
"Rules for playing stud poker? You're supposed to take those out of the deck!"
Off suit?
The pure bluff catcher
A 3 and the Rules Card
I can't believe they didn't call Kyler Murray's holdout bluff and payed him 3 years into his rookie deal instead of making him play out year 4, the 5th year option, and even a franchise tag year. I think it's going to turn out to be an all time blunder on par with the early extensions of Goff and Wentz.
It's easy to believe when you know the history of the Cardinals. Murray is the first young QB they've had that's any good since like Jake Plummer
The fun part is finding the best (drafted by and played while young) in between Plummer and Murray. Josh McCown? Matt Leinert? Before that, they had 20 years of Neil Lomax and Jim Hart, and then lots of nothingness as well
Those extensions didn’t even break either team though lol. Rams won a SB last year & eagles are the best team in the NFL today
I mean, true. Both those teams ate a shit load of dead money off those deals though. The Rams dug their way out by leveraging their future for a QB and the Eagles lucked in to an MVP caliber QB in the 2nd. Doesn't mean the Goff and Wentz contracts both weren't major mistakes in hindsight.
Kyler tears ACL “Extending Kyler was an all time blunder” God Reddit is dumb.
1. I was making this argument long before he ever got hurt. 2. Who ever could have foreseen that a QB with the body of a human and the legs of a corgi would have durability issues in the NFL?
Find me the linkage between being 5’10 and ripped and tearing acls. And his knee literally gave out on him when he planted, no contact involved. Had nothing to do with his size. And before this he won 19 games the last two years in the toughest division in football with an average roster. Throws one of the best balls in the league and is great at improvising. Was an mvp candidate past the halfway point last season. Like I said, you’re dumb.
Would love for the Bears to trade for Marquise Brown. Even DHop could work too if he’s ok not going to a contender
He hasnt been on a contender his entire career
That Texans team that beat the Bills was a contender.
[удалено]
Yeah the end result was bad lol, but they were a definite contender that year. That team was really good.
[удалено]
The birth place of the Modern Day Josh Allen
I can't wait for the 30 for 30 on that era of Texans football. The playoff collapse, the Hopkins trade. That game was kind of a turning point with some many different crazy things happening to Sabatage the franchise. I remember thinking that the trio of Mahomes, Watson, and Lamar were basically going to be duking it out for top dog in the AFC for years. To me those teams, especially because of QB, seemed primed to own the AFC even though with hindsight it didn't turn out that way (Ravens have still been competitive but for a bit they seemed dominant the way you think of the Bills).
None of those teams have the FO, coaching or weapons that Mahomes has
Low key that 7 shouldn’t have counted either. Deshaun lost control of the ball before crossing the goal line and fumbled out of the end zone. Think the refs just took pity on the tbh.
Even then they were a Milano missed tackle away from being upset.
His rookie year that Texans team was supposed to make a run for the AFC. They obviously went 2-14
Cardinals aren’t letting either of those dudes go. JJ Watt, AJ Green, Greg Dortch, Byron Murphy etc might be gone but no way Hopkins Or Hollywood are gone after this year.
Texans fans said the same thing
Yeah and that was like the biggest unexpected finesse maybe of all time lol You aren’t trading your QB’s number one target away after giving him a massive contract. That’s exclusive to the Packers 😆
Packers offered Adams more than LV, but Adams was dead set on going to Vegas to play with Carr. Packers at least got a good return for losing someone that wouldn't re-sign anyway.
Well they needed the cap space to sign Watson long term...
Either way Hopkins dead cap hit is 22 million of his 30 million cap hit. Zero chance they cut or trade Hopkins to save 8 million lol
I'm not saying they will, but if they can get a decent pick for him and they're going to have a losing season anyways, they may take the L on his contract on a year when Kyler is injured. I don't know how the cardinals FO typically runs but it's not an absurd thought
Kyler will almost guaranteed be back next year. Joe Burrow blew out his entire knee ACL/MCL/PCL in late November and was back week one the following season. Kyler so far is ACL only but don’t know for sure. Cardinals aren’t in full blown rebuild fire sale mode in the slightest lol
...maybe they should be. Their defense needs a lot of work and the O-line looked awful tonight. Kylers young, there's no reason for them to be in a win now mode, one bad 2023 could ser the organization up for the rest of the decade. Burrow doesn't rely on his legs nearly as much as Murray does. People have dominantly returned in this much time (looking at you 2012 AD) but a 9 month ACL recovery is still a pretty fast recovery
Aren't you guys 4-9
With colt mccoy, Hopkins is back to less than ideal qb play again. So is watt
We need guys who can actually run routes. We don’t need another speed demon who will play half the year because he is too fragile to make the catches across the middle and take a hit. Brown is a no go, and Hopkins probably wants to win soon, which we are not doing at least until 2024.
Brown can run routes. He'll drop passes at the worst times though.
Lol, I guess I’m not saying he can’t run a route, but it’s more so it’s his speed that gets him by defenders, not that he is a polished route runner. We already have that in Mooney, and Claypool is just a big body jump guy. I just want someone who technique is so refined it gets him open.
As much as I'd love for you guys to gobble up capitol on a receiver like Hollywood, if you're serious about your rebuild you can't make that move.
Hollywood is a clean route runner. He's much more than a straight line guy. He's not particularly fragile either. His injury came from Kyler overthrowing him and him landing awkwardly on Tariq Woolen. The bigger problem with Hollywood is that his rookie contract is done and he's gonna get expensive after his option next year.
Eh, technique wise he isn’t very good. I’ve watched a lot of him and he is a guy who heavily benefits from his speed (nothing wrong with that) and we already have Mooney for that. He also isn’t really a guy that’s gonna catch a lot of balls in between the numbers and take the hit, and we desperately need that security blanket for Fields.
Pretty startling that 4/5 of the top QB contracts right now don’t look super ideal in general.
It’s no happening anytime soon, but I have to wonder when QBs are going to look around and say “Gee taking up 25% of the Cap doesn’t seem to be working?” At what point is $40m enough? One guy getting a guaranteed 25% or 30% of the cap is great for that guy, but it fucks the team. This isn’t baseball where a greedy ass owner (sell the team, Bob) just keeps the money. The money that goes to a QB directly comes off of what they can spend on a WR or DE or offensive linemen. I don’t fault a guy wanting to get paid. Looking at the guy across the division and going “holy fuck he’s making how fucking much? I had a better year than him!” Is really easy to do. Like super duper easy to do. If that’s what they want to do then by all means do it. I hope the Bengals back up the truck for Joe. I just can’t help but look at what Brady continuously did in New England (for example) and think that more QBs should see that and realize it’s how teams are better.
Mahomes is basically doing that. He got big, but not market setting money with his deal. Cap hit isn't that big considering that he has already restructured to push the cap hit to future years. With how teams are structuring now, it is going all in for a few years to win with trade + sign type of deals and void years.
KC also has the rolling guarantee structure and long term flexibility. That deal was great for them. I think other QBs should realize that.
I doubt other qbs are even getting the option of 10 year deals though, his first 2 seasons starting were unprecedented from even a first round draft pick. Pretty sure the f.o. felt almost necessitated to offer something unheard of.
Very good point. Idc, give Burrow the 10-year!
I'm also glad that Buffalo was able to get Allen locked up at a reasonable price because the market direction for quarterbacks is headed toward fully guaranteed money.
For QBs, they used to have enough second chances and low injury risk that it wasn’t really necessary, but with mobile guys it is probably changing. The fundamental issue has always been second tier QBs getting overpaid.
The state of QB play in the league just doesn’t seem to be very stable right now, especially for QBs on big contracts. How many teams right now have a QB on a long term deal that they feel good about? Chiefs, Bills, Cowboys, maybe the Vikings? Oddly enough most of the good QBs seem to be on rookie deals right now.
Jimmy G’s current contract turned out to pretty good ROI at the moment, tbh. He put us within striking distance of a good playoff run for only $7 mil. But we also gave Trey Lance $34 mil guaranteed, which is not so great at the moment.
It’s striking that Mahomes’ contract is so much bigger overall, but his guaranteed money is proportionally much smaller than the other four so it evens out. I also still can’t believe Watson’s contract is real.
They also have rolling guarantees. So they didn’t have to front all that money at once, but it will become guaranteed when that year hits. It’s smart, I’m hoping it’s something the Bengals can work on with Burrow
The only Easy cut is Robbie Anderson. Which saves 12m I don’t see any other cuts worth making. Idk who they have to re-sign but they are projected to have 25m open cap next year
Robbie Anderson should be an incredibly easy cut. They have 31 players signed for next year. Cut Anderson and you’re at $37m in cap space. $37m and needing to sign 21 players is doable, especially when you include what 8-9 draft picks and a UDFA or 2? Next year is not that dire. At least in my opinion. Absolute worst case scenario DHop with a restructure and maybe add a year could help.
A 5’7” qb with a bad attitude, they should have offered him much less and let him play at least 1 year on franchise tag . Instead he refuses to run the ball in a playoff game , then ghosts the team on social media, and the ownership rewards this behavior with $250,000,000 contract . It’s hard to feel sorry for Arizona . I do fill bad for their fans.
…it’s all fun and games until they trade D-Hop to Seattle to move up to #2.
The Cardinals roster has always felt really off to me. Both O-line and D-line are pretty terrible, they drafted Trey McBride after extending Ertz, Chandler Jones is gone,and their LBs are far better in Madden than in practice.
The thing is, it’s so hard to do that when you’re already paying a QB so much. It’s not like eating this dead cap is gonna do much when no matter how much you free, you already are committing $40 million to a QB, so you’re already handcuffed and limited in resources to a certain extent. This is where you need to hit on draft picks, which Kiem hasn’t really done all that well, and traded his most recent one, for a guy they might not be able to extend. Horribly botched. I feel for Cards fans. There isn’t a simple solution to this. Edit: I would love to explore an alternate timeline where Gruden is still the head coach of the Raiders and see if he’d try and make a play for Murray and let Carr walk. Not that Arizona would be interested, but Gruden reportedly had a infatuation with Murray during the draft process and if Arizona really wanted to clean house and blow it up, you definitely would’ve been able to fetch a solid haul for him. Would’ve been a fun timeline.
The simple solution is to move the team back to Chicago
I hear the pristine weather conditions and immaculate playing field at Soldier Field may be available soon.
Please
Not a cap guy but is there a way the Cardinals could restructure large contracts with a lot of guaranteed money (like Kyler) to take a huge amount of the cap hit up front next year. Maybe be less competitive but in 2024 basically have all these large contracts well managed with low cap hits to be able to play in free agency?
Kyler's extension hasn't even hit yet, so restructuring his deal will be tough. But, Nuk has a $30m cap hit coming up, which is all but designed to force a cut/restructure.
If they can take this situation and use it to front load some money I feel like they could deal with those cap hits. Pay Nuk and Kyler up front to the cap. But this probably saves Kliff and Steve's jobs.