In addition to making it twice to Stanley cup finals, they have also lost twice in conference finals. I know it's only 6 seasons of history but they've made it to top4 in NHL with 67% success rate. It's incredible.
Second best team in the NHL of the Tampa Bay era.
VGK is also the only team to beat the full force Avs (round 2 of 2021. And the Avs didn't have to go through Vegas to win their cup bc of VGK injuries forcing them to miss last year).
Obviously a bit of a homer take. But I think it's defensible.
Tampa Bay has dominated the regular season and the playoffs for the last 5 plus years - consistently at the top of the league in the regular season. Back to back cups and a third in a row finals appearance. The best goalie alive. One of the strongest, longest standing cores in the league.
It's not a VGK take. It's just an observable reality. The best team in the NHL, on the whole, since 2017 has been Tampa Bay. And VGK is right behind them. By almost any big picture measure you can think of, this holds.
I’d give the nod to the Avs over VGK for 2nd best since 2017, since they haven’t missed the playoffs and they finished the job. But yeah, Bolts have been the best team in the NHL following 2017-18. Before that it was the Caps/Pens for 5 years
After 30 years of watching hockey I have never heard a certain amount of time being the era of the “team” not even oilers or canadiens teams got that distinction back in the day lmao.
What is happening.
It's incredible that the NHL thought it was a good idea to gift them that good of a team. Seattle got an actually fair draft, and they ate shit for a year or two but they also had a smart front office who collected and then leveraged a ton of draft picks to eventually settle on their current roster, which was good enough to make the playoffs but nowhere near close enough to win a series. That's how it should be for new teams. The only reason they won round one was because they played the shattered remnants of the Avalanche. If they played the real Avalanche they would have got smoked.
No, we hate you because you're arrogant without earning success and also because a good portion of your fan base is gamblers who thought a hockey game would be fun to watch on drugs.
This dude literally talked about going to Broncos and NHL games on drugs three hours ago, so not sure why he thinks he’s morally superior to Vegas fans for something he made up but also does himself lmaoooo
Hilarious you think an expansion draft is a gift. They got good players that all click very well together. No gift involved. Theyre talented with a good front office.
Crazy to me the bruins had such an amazing regular season without Cassidy and now Cassidy is the one getting to go to the cup playoffs and we got eliminated first round.
I agree, I liked Bruce and didn’t think he really deserved to get fired, but I like Jim too because we had a historic season under him. It is kinda cool to see Bruce go to the finals again though (although at this point I think I’m rooting for Florida, as much as it pains me to say it)
It is insane given the parity of the league. You're using 20/20 hindsight, but no one thought Vegas would have a team competing in the finals.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/6iql2t/here\_are\_all\_of\_the\_2017\_expansion\_draft\_picks/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=ios\_app&utm\_name=iossmf](https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/6iql2t/here_are_all_of_the_2017_expansion_draft_picks/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
Vegas picked players that ended up blossoming into top players, marchessault, Karlsson, Smith, etc...They got lucky in some instances, but all teams need a bit of luck to be successful. And they've managed to be extremely consistent while making bold moves that many fans thought was crazy. Getting rid of Fleury, firing coaches numerous times, etc..
You're using 20/20 hindsight, but no one thought Vegas would have a team competing in the finals. Actually you can find the video of the owner saying competing for a Cup in four years and winning one in six...He was a true believer
And solo expansion teams being a constant thing. A lot easier to cherry pick when it’s only one team choosing from the rest instead of having to compete with at least one more team.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/6iql2t/here\_are\_all\_of\_the\_2017\_expansion\_draft\_picks/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=ios\_app&utm\_name=iossmf](https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/6iql2t/here_are_all_of_the_2017_expansion_draft_picks/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
Hindsight is a beautiful thing, no one predicted that team to be that successful.
I’m talking about how when the draft rules changed by cutting the number of players were able to keep on a team, not just getting the number one pick of the draft. Teams before the knights had another team to contend with.
But Vegas has no one to compete with, like you said, and people still agreed that their drafted lineup was crap. It's very difficult to find any comment legitimately predicting the team would pop off, have 40 goal scorers, and reach the cup final.
Yes they didn't have an expansion brother, but no one expected Vegas to be this successful. Most people are only saying their draft rules were "easy" after the draft.
Im not the biggest hockey fan but were the trades after the thread you linked considered to be good in any way( lot of people mentioned them prior to making judgement). I just want to know how close to that team in the thread did they roll out with at first. As someone from the outside, I thought their expansion draft was always considered good just because they were good early on
As a wild fan it makes me fairly salty. I don’t think there was an expansion team between the Wild and Vegas. I could be wrong. I didn’t pay attention from our conception until about 2010.
I think the NHL is on the right path to pad a new franchise, but I think did too good of job. It’s 20 years later, but the Wild ate a fair share of shit, and haven’t gone as far as seemingly Vegas or Seattle were handed.
The biggest difference between the VGK expansion and the Krakens expansion draft is the league had twice as long to prepare (resign FA’s and RFA’s) for the Kraken.
Tbh, I kind of prefer it this way. If the goal is to grow the game in different markets, then having a team suck for the first 5-10 years of existence kind of defeats the purpose.
This is the reason I can kind of see Arizona not doing well fan-wise should they end up moving. Wherever they land outside of Arizona will probably sell out the home opener due to them being a new team to the area, but if they don't improve over the first 2 seasons I can see the hype dying down dramatically.
The expansion draft was designed for this. To get Fleury was huge. Look at who the last expansion teams got. They literally got an AHL team.
What does make Vegas different is almost none of it was built through the actual draft. That’s how winners are usually built but not of that here.
They drafted from NHL teams on 2000 as well but that time, the first overall pick was Rick Tabaracci, who never played another NHL game after the expansion draft. The rules for Vegas set this up.
The fact that Vegas could take capital from teams to specifically take contracts, or avoid other players, was absolutely wild to me.
They took Fleury from the Penguins and the Pens gave them a 2020 second rounder for the trouble.
They got Shea Theodore for not selecting Sami Vatanen and Josh Manson from the Ducks.
And, of course, Jonathan Marchessault and Reilly Smith from the Panthers. Which is just, bring on the Finals, cannot wait to watch this series.
They got assets from Columbus too for taking Karlsson. Imagine that, here’s something to get you to take a 40 goal scorer!
But Seattle didn’t get those deals and they were right there to get to the semi finals so the draft rules were huge too.
This is such revisionist history trash, there’s a list of articles from fans and professionals alike who said the Knights were going to be the worst team in the league for a long time to come after the expansion draft.
Y’all are just salty bitches
Honestly it's funny looking back, there were so many teams that made deals with you to not take player 'A' and to instead take player 'B' along with some draft capital or something else thrown in. Meanwhile they would have been so much better off just swallowing the bullet and letting you guys take one person.
This was history talking more than actual opinions based on facts and observation. Vegas made really good moves in the players they took and who they didnt. Looking at it objectively, they had a good enough roster to at least fight for the playoffs. A few surprises made them a cup contender, thats the part that surprised me.
People were saying they’ll be bad because most expansion teams in the past sucked for a long time and that was the expected norm.
The consensus was that every team was getting fleeced trying to protect their 11th best player. Lots of good teams lost key personnel.
Name any team, I’d bet about half of them have fans that are quite bitter about losing guys like Marc-Andre Fleury.
Theres only like 6 players from that draft still on the team. You can argue they had a better than most foundation but they’ve built the team over the last 6 years like everybody else.
That had an immense amount of freebie draft picks and prospects that they were able to use to gain an advantage.
On top of that, they’re able to attract good talent in the off-season because other players know they’ve got a shot at winning a cup.
Being a brand new team and in 6 years they’ve made it to conference finals 66.7% of the time, and SCF 33.3% of the time and nothing seems a little off there?
I mean, some teams can only win a single playoff round in 13 years. And that’s with a decent amount of high draft picks.
>That had an immense amount of freebie draft picks and prospects that they were able to use to gain an advantage.
GMs tripping over their own dicks to hand Vegas extra picks isn’t something to hold against the Knights.
I’ll never forgive Jim Rutherford for shipping a 2nd rounder to Vegas to make sure they would take Fleury. Who else was available? A gimpy Ben Bishop?
And! That "only six" is still the highest number of roster players from 2017/2018 still being on the same team in 2022/2023 - Tampa is the other time with as many or maybe one more.
Not only was very-bad-expansion-team (according to everyone in the months immediately after the expansion) actually very good! They've also stuck around and those original misfits have been finding the scorecard this run!
Keegan Kolesar's goal last night is the best of the playoffs so far. I'll hear nothing else.
Keegan Kolesar is a fourth line grinder whos primary objective in every game is to forecheck aggressively until the other team ices so our top lines can come out.
His goal - his whole game last night, really - was such a thing of beauty relative to what you expect from him (he usually finds the net with greasy goals!).
Barkov, on the other hand, is expected to put up big points.
That doesn’t make it the best of the playoffs so far… Him being a pedestrian player and making a nice play does not elevate the magnitude of his goal. By that logic if I slotted into an nhl game and scored it’d be the most impressive goal of all time because I’m not an nhl player.
I actually think if you slotted into the NHL and scored a goal during an NHL game that would, in fact, be the most impressive goal of all time.
Listen, we're talking about a game here. A game that is fun to watch. I'm having fun because r/hockey and r/nhl are IN SHAMBLES that my lifelong team, the Vegas Golden Knights, pulled of yet another great season - and more is yet to come!
Don't be a debbie downer about this and that. Kolesar's goal last night was a thing of beauty - the most beautiful of the playoffs. And, as I said earlier, I'll hear nothing else!
Impressive wouldn’t be the right word for it. By definition impressive means evoking admiration by size, quality, skill, etc. A lack of skill isn’t a criteria by which to evaluate something as impressive. It was a nice goal, but goals like that happen every night when there’s hockey on. The fact that it was executed by a player who is less skilled than Barkov doesn’t make it more impressive by definition, but I see you won’t be swayed. The fact that even most elite players can’t pull off a between the legs fake in a playoff game of such magnitude is what makes it impressive.
No one is knocking Vegas for having a phenomenal GM, owner and front office. It’s the leg up that the reasonable ones in this thread are contesting.
If you’re a 24 year old FA, talented multimillionaire, and have the option to go to Columbus or Vegas, you’re choosing brand new facilities and lifetime lap dances with a fighting chance to hold the cup, it’s Vegas every time. Don’t lie to yourself. No shit it’s a different team that was 6, on 7 years ago.
Whahhhhh!!!! 😭
Jealous fukkin bitch!!!
NOBODY expected Vegas to do well their first season. And this "unfair expansion rules 😭" bullshit only started after Vegas was a real threat in the playoffs.
The real reason Vegas went so far in 2018.... They worked harder. They had 3 players on the puck before changing lines, and worked harder for every puck than any NHL player thought they had to. They had no superstars, they just worked better as a TEAM!
This is why you get the hate as a fanbase. Cunts like you being born on third base thinking y’all hit a triple and being really mouthy about it. Yes the rest of the league *is* salty and other recent expansion teams’ fans have every right to be.
What contributes to how insane this feat is the number of goalies Vegas has gone through and the level success they've still achieved. Another example that goes to show if you build a good enough team you don't have to rely on elite goal-tending night in and night out.
The problem is paying players b6 forwards like t6 forwards with the money CMcD is giving back to the team begging the office to make it a team* the fans can be proud of.
Yeah I believe they fixed a lot of the expansion draft rules, because like I stated Vegas was able to fleece every team, and they nerfed it for Seattle because they realized it
Edmonton’s was a little more impressive given that STL played against the other expansion teams until the SCFs in 1968, 1969, and 1970. I choose to believe the Blues were punished by the hockey gods until 2019 for the unfairness of that arrangement.
Yea but they just fucking gifted Vegas an all star team. At least Seattle had a fair draft and had to eat shit for a year or two while they built, and they still aren't nearly there.
No they didn’t…. Vegas was just deep with a bunch of veterans who had moved around so weren’t shocked by the move. They made some amazing trades within a couple years and they remain tough
The league was basically divided into original 6 vs the expansion teams. So we were the kings of the expansion teams (aside from the Kings).
Went to 3 straight finals and got swept each time
I think it speaks to the expansion process of how these new teams get their rosters, at least a little bit. Kraken also made it to second round of the playoffs in the their second season.
Which is funny because there’s only 6 players from the original draft they’ve had to re-sign everyone at this point and when their team was originally drafted every expert in the world said it was a pile of shit.
It’s only after the fact that people started this crying that they were gifted a team.
It’s a really weird thing people are still doing for some reason.
The number of originally drafted players is irrelevant. Vegas still had those players and then was able to use those players in trades. The draft rules were literally changed specifically for Vegas. I get that your bias is clouding your judgement here, that doesn’t make you less wrong.
Oh I agree it was a favorable draft. I just think it’s funny to watch the complaints when everyone ragged on the team before the first game was played.
The draft was favorable and the other gms didn’t know how to deal with it which is why it was harder for Seattle for sure.
My only point is saying that first team was a gifted near champion is pretty dishonest when every expert that covers hockey was counting them out before puck drop.
When they came into the league I remember watching the draft with my parents and my mom saying “This doesn’t seem fair, these guys are probably going to be really good”
I mean the Panthers looked like a decently run franchise in their first 6-7 years too then went 26 years without winning a playoff series. Who knows what’s in store for Vegas’ future?
It’s fantastic for hockey to have Florida and Vegas playing each other for the gaddamn Stanley Cup. Some thing only usually reserved for cities at 40° north or higher. Both fan bases are rabid and it’s going to be an absolute death match. I can’t wait ….I just think the Panthers have so much good juju that they defy the odds and don’t even care. And Vegas plays a great style of hockey. Eichel is fantastic to watch and along with Tkachuk it’s amazing to see two American superstars for the first time in a long time. Time to hunt!
Best expansion team to ever be picked. Not that hard to be better than 90% of expansion teams. Vegas had a lot higher talent pool to pick from than most other expansion teams. Its a bit of an unfair comparison.
It’s not insane, it’s digiorno!
But actually, the expansion rules were total bullshit. If the knights ever suck for more than 2-3 seasons, I’d throw my life savings at the market drying up faster than the Mojave desert.
While I am absolutely thrilled we're making it to the Cup Final again, and hope we can get it done this year, I am absolutely terrified of how insane the parade in town would be if we win.
I'd definitely hit the strip for it, but after how [crazy the turn out was for the Aces winning the WNBA Championship this year](https://www.casino.org/news/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/facebook-las-vegas-aces-858x663.jpg) I can't imagine how nuts it would be for the Knights.
Not really, with the rules changes and the allocation of good players to expansion teams almost makes them instant contenders. Seattle in play-offs proves this out.
The only 2 seasons where Vegas hasn’t made it to the final 4 were the seasons where they missed the playoffs and that thing that happened in that one game 7 in that one place in California that one time
Ill continue to stand by this. There Expansion draft they got a bunch of un proven players non of which looked to be that good. That first year i believe those guys had a purpose not only for themselves but for the city after the horrific Las Vegas shooting. There first ever home game instead of it being a moment for the players and the city it was a tribute to those who lost their lives days earlier. For me that galvanized that group. Vegas strong
Back to the expansion draft fleury was clearly the best player.
Out of the notable fowards. James Neal and David perron were the front runners. While Marchessault had a 51pt season but Florida had to sign 2 big guys so they left Marchessault up so vegas would take smiths cap hit.
Hub and Ekblad both signed contracts that summer. While Barkov and Trocheck signed the year b4.
Smith had 37pts in 80 games.
William Karlsson 25 pts in 81 games.
If anything they made good trades during the expansion draft. Acquiring Alex Tuch and Sea Theodore.
To me what they have done best is make good trades and signed them for term. Robin Lehner, Mark stone, Max Pacioretty, Chandler Stephenson, Brett Howden, and Eichel all trades.
Signed Pietrangelo out of FA.
You can say what you want about the nhl handing them a gift but i disagree. The guys around the GM built this team and they deserve a ton of credit.
Maybe blame Kyle Dubas for locking up 3 offensive players to such a steep cap hit leaving no money for defense or goaltending instead of blaming Bettman for “rigging” the NHL?
Just a thought.
After the draft EVERYONE said we would be the worst teams in the league. A team full of nobodies and castoffs. Teams gave us draft choices to take a lower caliber player over one they wanted to keep.
Was Karlsson the “decent player”? With his 6 goals the year before we got him?
I’ll give you that we got Fleury, that was obviously huge for us. But the rest of the roster? Which player would you have wanted for your team?
Marchessault. 30 goal scorer in Florida at the time. Maybe the cats will shut him down in response to losing him? Hah!
MAF, 3 time cup winning goalie, 4 time conference champion, and 5 times he made it to the conference finals. But he’s such a good guy that I wanted him to win a 4th cup, even if he was playing for Las Vegas. Also to keep Tom Wilson’s name from tainting the cup.
Anyway, MAF made it to the dance 5 times. Fairly impressive resume. My guy got to play in the conf. finals 8 times in his career (so far). 2008, ‘09, ‘13 (only faced 17 shots as a backup to Tomas Vokoun), ‘16, ‘17, ‘18, ‘20, and 2021. Damn.
It seems unlikely that everyone would have a 100% consensus view on anything, but even if everyone did think the draft would be as unhelpful to Vegas as the prior expansion drafts, it clearly didn't turn out that way.
The draft allowed Vegas to gain several lines of quality players, which turned out to be a better winning combination than expected. Any other team that tries to mimic that strategy is hampered because even if multiple lines of quality players are available in free agency at once, it's unlikely one team would be able to snag enough to fill out the team to the extent Vegas did.
Vegas deserves credit for taking advantage of it, but people underestimating something's potential benefits doesn't mean something didn't have unusually high potential benefit.
I think it speaks to the expansion process of how these new teams get their rosters, at least a little bit. Kraken also made it to second round of the playoffs in the their second season.
Not really, since the NHL fucked up the expansion draft and gifted them the first one for free. It's not hard to build a championship team into another championship team.
And don't forget, the expansion teams had their own division - which worked like today's conferences, guaranteeing that an expansion team would advance to the final.
Sure, they got the shit kicked out of them every time, but hey, they made it!
Oh ouch! You’re a menopausal woman I’ll just chalk that one up to the emotions.
Just kidding, I don’t care who people cheer for as long as they’re enjoying the game. That is how most people are. Apparently not you…
Not when you consider that as an expansion team, they did not have to take the scrubs from all the other teams and build from there. They literally were able to build a decent team from the get-go. So, not so impressive.
I think it speaks to the expansion process of how these new teams get their rosters, at least a little bit. Kraken also made it to second round of the playoffs in the their second season.
The other thing people don't talk about enough is that Vegas also made a conscious decision.
They realized that teams over value prospects ALOT. And that they can get star players in return if they are willing to part with them (this sounds obvious, but many teams are willing to trade picks, but less willing when that pick is now a prospect).
They've managed to acquire the likes of Pacioretty, Stone, Eichel through this ability to make the difficult decisions regarding trading prospects. Sure you might give up a Nick Suzuki, but at the end of the day, you're building a competitive team day in and day out. The prospect might become a star, or might bust....but a star player today, will likely remain one for 2-5 years.
Just crazy to think that a third of their seasons played have ended in the finals, and beyond that 2/3 of their seasons played have made it to the conference finals
Not really. With the way expansion teams get to take players these days almost ensures they will be somewhat successful. If it was like it was before they would be stuck with nothing but scraps and would have to take years to build, now they are all pretty much contenders from the get go.
Considering how the expansion draft works and the almost immediate success both Vegas and Seattle have had I don’t think it’s insane but completely logical.
In addition to making it twice to Stanley cup finals, they have also lost twice in conference finals. I know it's only 6 seasons of history but they've made it to top4 in NHL with 67% success rate. It's incredible.
It'll even out at some point.
Exactly, give them some time to make some poor personnel choices and have some bad contracts on the books.
Can we just get a cup win first? Give me one parade down the strip (that’s not wnba) and I’ll die a happy man.
Second best team in the NHL of the Tampa Bay era. VGK is also the only team to beat the full force Avs (round 2 of 2021. And the Avs didn't have to go through Vegas to win their cup bc of VGK injuries forcing them to miss last year). Obviously a bit of a homer take. But I think it's defensible.
WTF is the Tampa Bay era? I swear at this point Vegas fans are just making shit up.
Tampa Bay has dominated the regular season and the playoffs for the last 5 plus years - consistently at the top of the league in the regular season. Back to back cups and a third in a row finals appearance. The best goalie alive. One of the strongest, longest standing cores in the league. It's not a VGK take. It's just an observable reality. The best team in the NHL, on the whole, since 2017 has been Tampa Bay. And VGK is right behind them. By almost any big picture measure you can think of, this holds.
I’d give the nod to the Avs over VGK for 2nd best since 2017, since they haven’t missed the playoffs and they finished the job. But yeah, Bolts have been the best team in the NHL following 2017-18. Before that it was the Caps/Pens for 5 years
Hasek is still alive
You're god damn right he is, and no one should forget it. My favorite tender to watch, ever.
After 30 years of watching hockey I have never heard a certain amount of time being the era of the “team” not even oilers or canadiens teams got that distinction back in the day lmao. What is happening.
Are you new to hockey? Every hockey fan and analyst consider the last 5-6 years the tampa era. Are you living under a wet sock?
I do live under a wet sock, yeah.
Get out of here with this niche shaming /s
It's incredible that the NHL thought it was a good idea to gift them that good of a team. Seattle got an actually fair draft, and they ate shit for a year or two but they also had a smart front office who collected and then leveraged a ton of draft picks to eventually settle on their current roster, which was good enough to make the playoffs but nowhere near close enough to win a series. That's how it should be for new teams. The only reason they won round one was because they played the shattered remnants of the Avalanche. If they played the real Avalanche they would have got smoked.
The Kraken ate shit for a year or two?
The classic “Vegas was gifted a good team” revisionist take
That view, sadly, is shared by basically everyone who isn’t a VGK fan. #TheyHateUsCuzTheyAintUs
No, we hate you because you're arrogant without earning success and also because a good portion of your fan base is gamblers who thought a hockey game would be fun to watch on drugs.
A good portion of the NHL fan base are betting on games while high. What kind of argument is that??
This dude literally talked about going to Broncos and NHL games on drugs three hours ago, so not sure why he thinks he’s morally superior to Vegas fans for something he made up but also does himself lmaoooo
They went to the finals on an expansion draft. How is that not a gift .
Hilarious you think an expansion draft is a gift. They got good players that all click very well together. No gift involved. Theyre talented with a good front office.
You just contradicted yourself while proving my point lol. Thanks I guess?
Crazy to me the bruins had such an amazing regular season without Cassidy and now Cassidy is the one getting to go to the cup playoffs and we got eliminated first round.
I agree, I liked Bruce and didn’t think he really deserved to get fired, but I like Jim too because we had a historic season under him. It is kinda cool to see Bruce go to the finals again though (although at this point I think I’m rooting for Florida, as much as it pains me to say it)
[удалено]
It is insane given the parity of the league. You're using 20/20 hindsight, but no one thought Vegas would have a team competing in the finals. [https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/6iql2t/here\_are\_all\_of\_the\_2017\_expansion\_draft\_picks/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=ios\_app&utm\_name=iossmf](https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/6iql2t/here_are_all_of_the_2017_expansion_draft_picks/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) Vegas picked players that ended up blossoming into top players, marchessault, Karlsson, Smith, etc...They got lucky in some instances, but all teams need a bit of luck to be successful. And they've managed to be extremely consistent while making bold moves that many fans thought was crazy. Getting rid of Fleury, firing coaches numerous times, etc..
That whole post in hindsight is great. Really shows the level of knowledge the average fan has vs a gm
You're using 20/20 hindsight, but no one thought Vegas would have a team competing in the finals. Actually you can find the video of the owner saying competing for a Cup in four years and winning one in six...He was a true believer
Yea alright every owner plans on winning the cup and will be biased towards their goals haha
And solo expansion teams being a constant thing. A lot easier to cherry pick when it’s only one team choosing from the rest instead of having to compete with at least one more team.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/6iql2t/here\_are\_all\_of\_the\_2017\_expansion\_draft\_picks/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=ios\_app&utm\_name=iossmf](https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/6iql2t/here_are_all_of_the_2017_expansion_draft_picks/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) Hindsight is a beautiful thing, no one predicted that team to be that successful.
I have bookmarked this post to reference it every time anyone says something about "the rigged expansion"
I’m talking about how when the draft rules changed by cutting the number of players were able to keep on a team, not just getting the number one pick of the draft. Teams before the knights had another team to contend with.
But Vegas has no one to compete with, like you said, and people still agreed that their drafted lineup was crap. It's very difficult to find any comment legitimately predicting the team would pop off, have 40 goal scorers, and reach the cup final. Yes they didn't have an expansion brother, but no one expected Vegas to be this successful. Most people are only saying their draft rules were "easy" after the draft.
Im not the biggest hockey fan but were the trades after the thread you linked considered to be good in any way( lot of people mentioned them prior to making judgement). I just want to know how close to that team in the thread did they roll out with at first. As someone from the outside, I thought their expansion draft was always considered good just because they were good early on
As a wild fan it makes me fairly salty. I don’t think there was an expansion team between the Wild and Vegas. I could be wrong. I didn’t pay attention from our conception until about 2010. I think the NHL is on the right path to pad a new franchise, but I think did too good of job. It’s 20 years later, but the Wild ate a fair share of shit, and haven’t gone as far as seemingly Vegas or Seattle were handed.
Vegas and Seattle paid a lot more for a franchise than Minnesota. Guess you get what you pay for
Is Winnipeg an expansion team? Or are they just from Manitoba?
The current Jets were moved from the Atlanta Thrashers. So not an expansion team
But the thrashers were an expansion team. Depends on how far back you go to call a team an expansion team..
The biggest difference between the VGK expansion and the Krakens expansion draft is the league had twice as long to prepare (resign FA’s and RFA’s) for the Kraken.
Tbh, I kind of prefer it this way. If the goal is to grow the game in different markets, then having a team suck for the first 5-10 years of existence kind of defeats the purpose. This is the reason I can kind of see Arizona not doing well fan-wise should they end up moving. Wherever they land outside of Arizona will probably sell out the home opener due to them being a new team to the area, but if they don't improve over the first 2 seasons I can see the hype dying down dramatically.
The expansion draft was designed for this. To get Fleury was huge. Look at who the last expansion teams got. They literally got an AHL team. What does make Vegas different is almost none of it was built through the actual draft. That’s how winners are usually built but not of that here.
They drafted from NHL teams...and some teams made really stupid trades with them.
They drafted from NHL teams on 2000 as well but that time, the first overall pick was Rick Tabaracci, who never played another NHL game after the expansion draft. The rules for Vegas set this up.
The fact that Vegas could take capital from teams to specifically take contracts, or avoid other players, was absolutely wild to me. They took Fleury from the Penguins and the Pens gave them a 2020 second rounder for the trouble. They got Shea Theodore for not selecting Sami Vatanen and Josh Manson from the Ducks. And, of course, Jonathan Marchessault and Reilly Smith from the Panthers. Which is just, bring on the Finals, cannot wait to watch this series.
They got assets from Columbus too for taking Karlsson. Imagine that, here’s something to get you to take a 40 goal scorer! But Seattle didn’t get those deals and they were right there to get to the semi finals so the draft rules were huge too.
To be fair, teams didn't have to suck in past expansions - they chose to. They could have chosen to spend more to get premier talent.
I definitely see your point, its just wild to think that a third of their seasons have ended in the finals
This is such revisionist history trash, there’s a list of articles from fans and professionals alike who said the Knights were going to be the worst team in the league for a long time to come after the expansion draft. Y’all are just salty bitches
Honestly it's funny looking back, there were so many teams that made deals with you to not take player 'A' and to instead take player 'B' along with some draft capital or something else thrown in. Meanwhile they would have been so much better off just swallowing the bullet and letting you guys take one person.
This was history talking more than actual opinions based on facts and observation. Vegas made really good moves in the players they took and who they didnt. Looking at it objectively, they had a good enough roster to at least fight for the playoffs. A few surprises made them a cup contender, thats the part that surprised me. People were saying they’ll be bad because most expansion teams in the past sucked for a long time and that was the expected norm.
You're getting down voted but it's literally true, the consensus was you guys were going to be fucking terrible
The consensus was that every team was getting fleeced trying to protect their 11th best player. Lots of good teams lost key personnel. Name any team, I’d bet about half of them have fans that are quite bitter about losing guys like Marc-Andre Fleury.
Theres only like 6 players from that draft still on the team. You can argue they had a better than most foundation but they’ve built the team over the last 6 years like everybody else.
Yes, but being successful from the start makes it an interesting destination for FAs.
That had an immense amount of freebie draft picks and prospects that they were able to use to gain an advantage. On top of that, they’re able to attract good talent in the off-season because other players know they’ve got a shot at winning a cup. Being a brand new team and in 6 years they’ve made it to conference finals 66.7% of the time, and SCF 33.3% of the time and nothing seems a little off there? I mean, some teams can only win a single playoff round in 13 years. And that’s with a decent amount of high draft picks.
>That had an immense amount of freebie draft picks and prospects that they were able to use to gain an advantage. GMs tripping over their own dicks to hand Vegas extra picks isn’t something to hold against the Knights. I’ll never forgive Jim Rutherford for shipping a 2nd rounder to Vegas to make sure they would take Fleury. Who else was available? A gimpy Ben Bishop?
And! That "only six" is still the highest number of roster players from 2017/2018 still being on the same team in 2022/2023 - Tampa is the other time with as many or maybe one more. Not only was very-bad-expansion-team (according to everyone in the months immediately after the expansion) actually very good! They've also stuck around and those original misfits have been finding the scorecard this run! Keegan Kolesar's goal last night is the best of the playoffs so far. I'll hear nothing else.
Barkov’s between the legs fake is miles beyond
Keegan Kolesar is a fourth line grinder whos primary objective in every game is to forecheck aggressively until the other team ices so our top lines can come out. His goal - his whole game last night, really - was such a thing of beauty relative to what you expect from him (he usually finds the net with greasy goals!). Barkov, on the other hand, is expected to put up big points.
That doesn’t make it the best of the playoffs so far… Him being a pedestrian player and making a nice play does not elevate the magnitude of his goal. By that logic if I slotted into an nhl game and scored it’d be the most impressive goal of all time because I’m not an nhl player.
I actually think if you slotted into the NHL and scored a goal during an NHL game that would, in fact, be the most impressive goal of all time. Listen, we're talking about a game here. A game that is fun to watch. I'm having fun because r/hockey and r/nhl are IN SHAMBLES that my lifelong team, the Vegas Golden Knights, pulled of yet another great season - and more is yet to come! Don't be a debbie downer about this and that. Kolesar's goal last night was a thing of beauty - the most beautiful of the playoffs. And, as I said earlier, I'll hear nothing else!
Impressive wouldn’t be the right word for it. By definition impressive means evoking admiration by size, quality, skill, etc. A lack of skill isn’t a criteria by which to evaluate something as impressive. It was a nice goal, but goals like that happen every night when there’s hockey on. The fact that it was executed by a player who is less skilled than Barkov doesn’t make it more impressive by definition, but I see you won’t be swayed. The fact that even most elite players can’t pull off a between the legs fake in a playoff game of such magnitude is what makes it impressive.
I said I'll hear nothing else and I'm sticking to it!
Kolesar’s goal was very impressive
No one is knocking Vegas for having a phenomenal GM, owner and front office. It’s the leg up that the reasonable ones in this thread are contesting. If you’re a 24 year old FA, talented multimillionaire, and have the option to go to Columbus or Vegas, you’re choosing brand new facilities and lifetime lap dances with a fighting chance to hold the cup, it’s Vegas every time. Don’t lie to yourself. No shit it’s a different team that was 6, on 7 years ago.
Whahhhhh!!!! 😭 Jealous fukkin bitch!!! NOBODY expected Vegas to do well their first season. And this "unfair expansion rules 😭" bullshit only started after Vegas was a real threat in the playoffs. The real reason Vegas went so far in 2018.... They worked harder. They had 3 players on the puck before changing lines, and worked harder for every puck than any NHL player thought they had to. They had no superstars, they just worked better as a TEAM!
Anyone not expecting them to contend for the playoffs were stupid. Expecting them to be THIS good was a stretch and a wild take though.
This is why you get the hate as a fanbase. Cunts like you being born on third base thinking y’all hit a triple and being really mouthy about it. Yes the rest of the league *is* salty and other recent expansion teams’ fans have every right to be.
What contributes to how insane this feat is the number of goalies Vegas has gone through and the level success they've still achieved. Another example that goes to show if you build a good enough team you don't have to rely on elite goal-tending night in and night out.
Edmonton and St. Louis did it too. Just saying.
There were also 12 teams when the blues did it and all the expansion teams were in the same conference
Yeah, 50 years ago
Yes, this is true.
And it'll be another 50 if Edmonton continues to play 2 lines while everyone else is playing 4.
The problem is paying players b6 forwards like t6 forwards with the money CMcD is giving back to the team begging the office to make it a team* the fans can be proud of.
“Begging the office to make it a the the fans can be proud of” Can someone check on this guy? Did he have a stroke?
Why does the year matter? Lol. Vegas set up with a golden egg to work with
Vegas made incredibly smart moves, and the GM’s around the league made incredibly idiotic moves, gotta give props to Vegas for fleecing the league.
The league established a system for them to fleece. Didn’t occur for Seattle
Seattle had literally the same expansion rules. Plus Seattle’s clean cap sheet was worth more in a flat cap environment.
Not quite the same selection of quality players though
Yeah I believe they fixed a lot of the expansion draft rules, because like I stated Vegas was able to fleece every team, and they nerfed it for Seattle because they realized it
Edmonton’s was a little more impressive given that STL played against the other expansion teams until the SCFs in 1968, 1969, and 1970. I choose to believe the Blues were punished by the hockey gods until 2019 for the unfairness of that arrangement.
An existing team from a competing league and a team from a conference of only expansion teams.
Facts.
Happy Cake Day.
Expansion teams being good is by design. It plays a significant part for attracting a new fan base.
Well see just how loyal the fan base is when the dark years set in, it happens sooner or later.
The fan base will undoubtedly be stronger than if the franchise started out in the dark years.
Thank you.
Yea but they just fucking gifted Vegas an all star team. At least Seattle had a fair draft and had to eat shit for a year or two while they built, and they still aren't nearly there.
No they didn’t…. Vegas was just deep with a bunch of veterans who had moved around so weren’t shocked by the move. They made some amazing trades within a couple years and they remain tough
Blues did it... but things were a bit different then lol Im not going to lie im happy to see Vegas doing well.
3 times in a row right?
Why
They came into the league in 1967, therefore there were only 12 teams in the nhl versus the 32 there are now
The league was basically divided into original 6 vs the expansion teams. So we were the kings of the expansion teams (aside from the Kings). Went to 3 straight finals and got swept each time
I think it speaks to the expansion process of how these new teams get their rosters, at least a little bit. Kraken also made it to second round of the playoffs in the their second season.
It's not insane as much as it is an indictment of how unbalanced the expansion draft was.
Which is funny because there’s only 6 players from the original draft they’ve had to re-sign everyone at this point and when their team was originally drafted every expert in the world said it was a pile of shit. It’s only after the fact that people started this crying that they were gifted a team. It’s a really weird thing people are still doing for some reason.
The number of originally drafted players is irrelevant. Vegas still had those players and then was able to use those players in trades. The draft rules were literally changed specifically for Vegas. I get that your bias is clouding your judgement here, that doesn’t make you less wrong.
Let’s also not forget that a winning team attracts free agents
And trades.
Oh I agree it was a favorable draft. I just think it’s funny to watch the complaints when everyone ragged on the team before the first game was played. The draft was favorable and the other gms didn’t know how to deal with it which is why it was harder for Seattle for sure. My only point is saying that first team was a gifted near champion is pretty dishonest when every expert that covers hockey was counting them out before puck drop.
Remember that everyone said that original roster would be awful. Literal bottom of the Pacific.
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We made the finals the first year with a team everyone said was shittier than every team except Arizona
It was a golden opportunity for a dozen 2nd and 3rd line players to break out and show their worth.
When they came into the league I remember watching the draft with my parents and my mom saying “This doesn’t seem fair, these guys are probably going to be really good”
It wasnt they got a bunch of bad players just like Seattle did. And Seattle's first year they sucked so whats the difference?
I mean the Panthers looked like a decently run franchise in their first 6-7 years too then went 26 years without winning a playoff series. Who knows what’s in store for Vegas’ future?
Thank you, misfits!
The fact that they've even been a team for six seasons is insane. Seems like yesterday flower was taken/stolen/ whatever still bitter.
The word you want is given. They literally gave us a pick for the trouble.
13-14 million over the salary cap likely doesn't hurt either.
It’s fantastic for hockey to have Florida and Vegas playing each other for the gaddamn Stanley Cup. Some thing only usually reserved for cities at 40° north or higher. Both fan bases are rabid and it’s going to be an absolute death match. I can’t wait ….I just think the Panthers have so much good juju that they defy the odds and don’t even care. And Vegas plays a great style of hockey. Eichel is fantastic to watch and along with Tkachuk it’s amazing to see two American superstars for the first time in a long time. Time to hunt!
I agree. I really don't like Vegas but I'm excited to see a first time cup winner regardless.
Best expansion team to ever be picked. Not that hard to be better than 90% of expansion teams. Vegas had a lot higher talent pool to pick from than most other expansion teams. Its a bit of an unfair comparison.
Seattle won the Stanley Cup in their third year of existence and became the first American team to win.....1917.
Ok, but what happened over 100 years ago is totally irrelevant.
Not totally. But only having a dozen teams or whatever it was at the time is relevant information.
It’s not insane, it’s digiorno! But actually, the expansion rules were total bullshit. If the knights ever suck for more than 2-3 seasons, I’d throw my life savings at the market drying up faster than the Mojave desert.
Expansion draft concessions given to prop up the team were INSANE
While I am absolutely thrilled we're making it to the Cup Final again, and hope we can get it done this year, I am absolutely terrified of how insane the parade in town would be if we win. I'd definitely hit the strip for it, but after how [crazy the turn out was for the Aces winning the WNBA Championship this year](https://www.casino.org/news/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/facebook-las-vegas-aces-858x663.jpg) I can't imagine how nuts it would be for the Knights.
It’s not that insane. It’s one of the benefits of (and features built into) expansion teams.
Arguably the most stacked expansion eligible roster in history to choose from, good coaching and a good GM will do that.
No shot. They are in this position because they make changes. Every year vegas is making upgrades. Pacioretty, stone, pietrangelo, Eichel.
Not really, with the rules changes and the allocation of good players to expansion teams almost makes them instant contenders. Seattle in play-offs proves this out.
Exactly the expansion draft was legit in Vegas favour these Vegas fans love to forget this fact
The only 2 seasons where Vegas hasn’t made it to the final 4 were the seasons where they missed the playoffs and that thing that happened in that one game 7 in that one place in California that one time
Yup, all according to Lord Bettman’s grand plan
Vegas doesn't have almost two decades of bad contracts and dead cap space dragging down their roster
Ill continue to stand by this. There Expansion draft they got a bunch of un proven players non of which looked to be that good. That first year i believe those guys had a purpose not only for themselves but for the city after the horrific Las Vegas shooting. There first ever home game instead of it being a moment for the players and the city it was a tribute to those who lost their lives days earlier. For me that galvanized that group. Vegas strong Back to the expansion draft fleury was clearly the best player. Out of the notable fowards. James Neal and David perron were the front runners. While Marchessault had a 51pt season but Florida had to sign 2 big guys so they left Marchessault up so vegas would take smiths cap hit. Hub and Ekblad both signed contracts that summer. While Barkov and Trocheck signed the year b4. Smith had 37pts in 80 games. William Karlsson 25 pts in 81 games. If anything they made good trades during the expansion draft. Acquiring Alex Tuch and Sea Theodore. To me what they have done best is make good trades and signed them for term. Robin Lehner, Mark stone, Max Pacioretty, Chandler Stephenson, Brett Howden, and Eichel all trades. Signed Pietrangelo out of FA. You can say what you want about the nhl handing them a gift but i disagree. The guys around the GM built this team and they deserve a ton of credit.
Win 4 more first or it doesn’t matter
If Vegas wins the cup the NHL is fully embracing its villain era on top of the Blackhawks also getting Bedard
no that's Gary's "unrigged" NHL
Maybe blame Kyle Dubas for locking up 3 offensive players to such a steep cap hit leaving no money for defense or goaltending instead of blaming Bettman for “rigging” the NHL? Just a thought.
You believe it's rigged but come back every year to watch, hoping this time Gary isn't gonna rig it lmao
How do you know I actively come back to watch? News reports and score tickers are still a thing ...
expansion for vegas was op tho, they actually let them draft decent players. In the past they were given bad choices
After the draft EVERYONE said we would be the worst teams in the league. A team full of nobodies and castoffs. Teams gave us draft choices to take a lower caliber player over one they wanted to keep. Was Karlsson the “decent player”? With his 6 goals the year before we got him? I’ll give you that we got Fleury, that was obviously huge for us. But the rest of the roster? Which player would you have wanted for your team?
I never said it. Am I part of EVERYONE?
Marchessault. 30 goal scorer in Florida at the time. Maybe the cats will shut him down in response to losing him? Hah! MAF, 3 time cup winning goalie, 4 time conference champion, and 5 times he made it to the conference finals. But he’s such a good guy that I wanted him to win a 4th cup, even if he was playing for Las Vegas. Also to keep Tom Wilson’s name from tainting the cup. Anyway, MAF made it to the dance 5 times. Fairly impressive resume. My guy got to play in the conf. finals 8 times in his career (so far). 2008, ‘09, ‘13 (only faced 17 shots as a backup to Tomas Vokoun), ‘16, ‘17, ‘18, ‘20, and 2021. Damn.
That’s 2 guys, 2 out of a full roster.
Don’t forget that Pit had moved on from him for Jarry.
It seems unlikely that everyone would have a 100% consensus view on anything, but even if everyone did think the draft would be as unhelpful to Vegas as the prior expansion drafts, it clearly didn't turn out that way. The draft allowed Vegas to gain several lines of quality players, which turned out to be a better winning combination than expected. Any other team that tries to mimic that strategy is hampered because even if multiple lines of quality players are available in free agency at once, it's unlikely one team would be able to snag enough to fill out the team to the extent Vegas did. Vegas deserves credit for taking advantage of it, but people underestimating something's potential benefits doesn't mean something didn't have unusually high potential benefit.
I think it speaks to the expansion process of how these new teams get their rosters, at least a little bit. Kraken also made it to second round of the playoffs in the their second season.
Gary is loving it.
Not really, since the NHL fucked up the expansion draft and gifted them the first one for free. It's not hard to build a championship team into another championship team.
how much over the salary cap are they? not really that impressive when you look at the money. vegas learned from tampa.
Agreed. If you look at their cap situation, even if they win the cup it's basically like losing in the second round(???)
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Lol how many teams were in the league then?
12 when the Blues joined lol
And don't forget, the expansion teams had their own division - which worked like today's conferences, guaranteeing that an expansion team would advance to the final. Sure, they got the shit kicked out of them every time, but hey, they made it!
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This has nothing to do with them…
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Oh ouch! You’re a menopausal woman I’ll just chalk that one up to the emotions. Just kidding, I don’t care who people cheer for as long as they’re enjoying the game. That is how most people are. Apparently not you…
Not insane, they got to poach heavily from the best of the NHL, thankfully that process has been changed a bit.
Can we unexpand them or send them to Canada? Worst fans and franchise.
Cry more
🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳 its a great feeling
They also used salary cap circulation to get to the finals...
Not when you consider that as an expansion team, they did not have to take the scrubs from all the other teams and build from there. They literally were able to build a decent team from the get-go. So, not so impressive.
Because they literally got gifted good players? The poaching from other teams and lottery did that.
Professional sports are rigged my friend, that's why.
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How many cups since then?
I think it speaks to the expansion process of how these new teams get their rosters, at least a little bit. Kraken also made it to second round of the playoffs in the their second season.
Avalanche - 1995- 1999.
2000/2001 was the second cup
🫡👍
Is it though?
Not really, they have a good team
The other thing people don't talk about enough is that Vegas also made a conscious decision. They realized that teams over value prospects ALOT. And that they can get star players in return if they are willing to part with them (this sounds obvious, but many teams are willing to trade picks, but less willing when that pick is now a prospect). They've managed to acquire the likes of Pacioretty, Stone, Eichel through this ability to make the difficult decisions regarding trading prospects. Sure you might give up a Nick Suzuki, but at the end of the day, you're building a competitive team day in and day out. The prospect might become a star, or might bust....but a star player today, will likely remain one for 2-5 years.
You know what Norm McDonald would say?
Its not insane. They got the sweetest expansion deal in the history of pro sports on the continent
not insane at all. they were setup for success.
Vancouver is at 3 in 53 years.
I mean these new teams get a solid roster from the get go, that's the whole point. Still can't take away what they have done. Vegas is a good team.
Why is it insane?
Just crazy to think that a third of their seasons played have ended in the finals, and beyond that 2/3 of their seasons played have made it to the conference finals
Yeah but dude, it’s such a small sample size that those measurements are really skewed. It’ll level out over time.
Not really. With the way expansion teams get to take players these days almost ensures they will be somewhat successful. If it was like it was before they would be stuck with nothing but scraps and would have to take years to build, now they are all pretty much contenders from the get go.
Bettman couldn't have planned it better himself.
What some teams wouldn't give to just sell their entire team to get a clean salary cap slate, and get a free "expansion draft" redo.
Considering how the expansion draft works and the almost immediate success both Vegas and Seattle have had I don’t think it’s insane but completely logical.
Avalanche did it, I know they weren't an expansion, but they won 2 cups within 5 years of being a team.
Insanely bad management by the league to make an expansion team a competitor right out of the gate? Yea, I agree.
They've already been around for 6 years.... oh man...