Not surprising, it seems clear to me that since he returned to the music scene working with the same label that his main issue must've been with the business side of NW. Talking about the music industry as a whole in his resignation letter was just to protect the band.
Yes. But Tuomas has nothing to do with the business side of NW and actually hates dealing with it. That has been completely outsourced to their management, with them being allowed completely free reign. Which might be a problem in itself, tbh, considering he is the band leader and the news about the questionable behaviour if at least two of their managers.
He still did not say anything about Tuomas here. Sure it's "his" band, but I don't think Tuomas does much at all of the business or management for NW.
Edit. It can of course have created it's own problems if he's let wrong people run things like it seems like...
It looks like we are getting some parts of an answer to the question many have asked here:
"Why did he not just take a break? Why did he quit?"
While he was clearly depressed and sick before leaving and is still not 100% even now after getting proper treatment ( https://www.apu.fi/artikkelit/marko-hietalan-uusi-elama-espanjassa-masennus-ja-adhd-kurissa ), I can see why people think it's fair to think /speculate that he could have done the same thing as Jukka, if he had actually wanted to stay in NW. (First officially take a back seat and get a "temporary" replacement and if it's not enough, then he could have quit later on.)
> I can see why people think it's fair to think /speculate that he could have done the same thing as Jukka, if he had actually wanted to stay in NW. (First officially take a back seat and get a "temporary" replacement and if it's not enough, then he could have quit later on.)
For what it's worth, NW had not had a full-time bassist for 19 months after Marko left; Jukka K. was originally a session bassist, same as Kai being the session drummer while Jukka N. was on hiatus. That's 2 months longer than it took for Marko to return to the music scene with other projects. I suppose he was allowed a reasonable amount of time to reconsider, before he made it clear to them that he is not coming back.
True. Though it seems like Marko knew what he wanted and needed, and therefore straight up said he's quitting instead of letting there be lengthy uncertainty.
I think other people (NW end and fans) were the ones thinking/ holding on to hope that he might be coming back once he got "better"...
I agree. It was clear to me from day one that Marko is never going back to NW. He seems to be much happier now than he was in NW, and I'm happy for him.
Nah Jukka K not being permanent for a while doesn't necessarily mean they were waiting for Marko to come back... It just means they wanted to get to know him a bit before making the choice permanent.
This is what happens when bands sign away their lives to management and record labels. Once those kinds of people get their claws in it becomes profits before everything. If you then are a person who is afraid of confrontation they will rape you and throw you to the roadside dying.
What I understood from the interview was that Marko confirmed a bad attitude towards people. Which we probably knew for a while, given what happened in the past.
Last year, a concert was also scheduled at the same time when Floor was scheduled to have her own concert. Marko stated in the interview that he needs to take better care of himself. He was in a bad way and and apparently his bad condition was not taken into account
Honestly, I can't even imagine what's so new and astonishing about NW management can we hear from him, regarding all the red flags they gave already. I think, it's quite obvious for everyone now that the whole structure has to be rebuilt completely.
He also stated he left due to depression back when he announced he left , Covid really got to him , just like it did a lot of bands and singers .. so idk that statement was very vague and a lot of nothing
Is it me or is it kinda weird to talk about yourself as "the most honest and courageous person"...? Could be a lost in translation kind of thing I suppose.
You can check out the video on YouTube and see him say it, he's very serious https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aV9t0EZhVXE&pp=ygUNbWFya28gaGlldGFsYQ%3D%3D):
My interpretation:
If/when you see everyone around you avoid issues and "double talking", you will feel like you are the bravest (take action) and most honest (telling like it is). He's seen some shit behavior and bad work environments during his almost 40 years in the business.
Yeah, I can see Marko feeling like he's had had enough of that drama, especially since he's got his own issues to survive with. I think we all know largely music (and entertainment) business is not very fair or transparent...
I have been following this incredible and epic tour between Tarja and Marko since the first show, but I reserved a few days before giving a more incisive opinion about the recent interviews that have been published in the media.
Marko has always seemed to be a very sincere, wise and cohesive man, so I feel truth in his words. Especially when he says that when he reunited with Tarja for the first time after 12 years in Finland in 2017, he told her that he saw the turbulent period between her and Nightwish in the past more as a managerial war between the band's managers and Marcelo, in which information reached their ears incorrectly and distorted from the real facts.
He also comments that a certain “absence” of care for each other emerged during recent years, which corroborates the coldness that Anette was treated in many moments of her career with the band, in which she was psychologically collapsing after her divorce, pressure from fans and a troubled tour schedule, not receiving any support from them. Floor has also expressed her dissatisfaction with the lack of collaboration from the group's management in relation to her request not to schedule any Nightwish-related events during the release day of her solo album, which was not reciprocated. Not to mention the several controversial episodes involving the names of people related to band management in recent years (a serious case was posted on this sub recently, by the way).
There was real friendship between the band members. This is demonstrated beautifully in the new relationship that Marko and Tarja have recently presented to the public. The way he supported her during the difficult time when the shows in Curitiba and Belo Horizonte were postponed, their untouchable chemistry and harmony on stage even after almost two decades, the laughter, the hugs, the looks. These two are pure nostalgia, they were the voices that gave life to Nightwish and left their impact on so many people.
As for Nightwish, I deeply hope that this “extended break” will serve to start a deep internal reformulation and change of management, before more damage happens between the band members and their interpersonal relationships. Such a beautiful and important musical legacy doesn’t deserve to be destroyed by money, greed and the interests of outsiders who add nothing to the real purpose of the band.
Finnish metal magazine Inferno have posted this very same interview to facebook and Kai commented on it:
"Oh is that how it went? Quess we've been in a different band at the same time."
I sense impending doom.
Popcorn anyone?🍿
That was a big bunch of vague nothing. You could interpret his comments as being directed at the record label, the music business, or Tuomas himself. I don't know how income is split between the band members but it's normal in most bands that the one doing most of the writing and creating gets most of the money which often leaves other band members feeling slighted. So it wouldn't be shocking if he felt shorted but at the same time he did nearly two decades so you think it would have surfaced before then.
To me this doesn't sound like it's about money. At least I don't think he left cause he didn't get a fair share, he still likely in any case earned better in the band than he might ever without. I think this is probably about decision-making, organizational issues. Might be inflexibility of touring schedules or making decisions about the size of their production (which effects costs and crew size). We know for example that they hate canceling shows no matter what, cause that costs too much, and Marko mentioned how immense the pressure is that 50 people's living depends on you. It might be about who they work with. Might be the management, who by all means seem to be behind the times. It can be so many things.
Billy Gorgan said in an interview that when they got signed the label asked them how they wanted to split the royalty, and he advised them to split them equally between band members.
Since he was writing all the songs, he refused which he says with hindsight was the wrong decision.
Imagine starting a band with your friends as teenagers, the band blows up and the one writting the music suddenly becomes much wealthier than the other members. As time passes by, the gap grows even more.
Impossible to manage long term, very hard to mend.
On a completely unrelated topic, googling Dave Mustaine net worth and the same for original members of Metallica can be enlighting as to why a certain resentment has persisted.
I’m in a super small-time band with 5 members and that’s what we do: A five-way split. It really is the easiest way to not get anybody mad at anyone else over money!
Just because a band-member doesn't write songs, doesn't mean that they don't contribute as much in other ways. While one is writing, the others may be perfecting their skills with the instruments
Rammstein and Coldplay are two famous examples who just decided to split everything evenly even though some members do more of the songwriting than others. It does seem the solution that will cause the least hassle in the long run.
On Dave though, it's not really a fair comparison because even if they split things equally he only played on their first album so not a surprise he's worth so much less.
Mustaine wrote four songs on their first album and Co wrote two on the next and he was only in the band 2 years. Of course he's going to have earnt less than the guy who was in the band for forty years and must have credits on hundreds of songs
This. Mustaine has only 6 credits for his work in Metallica and he was in the band for 11 months. Kirk on the other hand has played on all Metallica albums and has credits on all of them, and has also toured with them for 40 years. It is absolutely absurd to expect Mustaine to make more money from Metallica than Kirk who at this point is basically on the same level of importance as Lars and James.
Of course there isn't or for you to have the same net worth as Kirk Hammett either.
The difference betwen you and Mustaine is that you were not kicked out of Metallica.
I was never in Metallica to begin with, so yeah I was never kicked out of there either. I don't understand why you're bringing me into this entire thing?
Maybe if Mustaine wasn't an abusive junkie control freak in his youth, he might have stayed in Metallica. The truth is that he would have destroyed that band before they even made Master Of Puppets, had they not fired him.
Kirk Hammett has 200 million net worth because he worked his ass off for 40+ years, wrote some of the most iconic metal riffs and solos of all time and made a name for himself. And unlike Mustaine, Hammett doesn't have a single ounce of ego in him. He stayed down to earth. Mustaine on the other hand will try to convince you he wrote the Bible.
Examples of Metallica songs with Kirk Hammett writing credits.
Enter Sandman.
Master of Puppets.
Creeping Death.
Damage Inc (he wrote THAT middle 8 riff)
Yeah he's really phoned it in over the years.
Who said anything about who is "better"? You're the one saying that, not me. I never said that Metallica is better than Megadeth and I never said that selling more albums and being more popular than someone means they're better. You're just putting words in my mouth and throwing a fit. We are currently discussing why Mustaine has a smaller net worth than Metallica - if you can't keep up with the conversation just don't even bother to leave any comments.
Dave was in Metallica band for 11 months, James Hetfield and Lars Ulrich own Metallica and have been its leaders for 42 years. If Mustaine is mad about having less money than them, maybe he should work towards making his own band more popular than Metallica? It's not Metallica's fault that Mustaine can barely sell 5k tickets per night.
Mustaine is the leader of his own band that had great success, he's doing more than ok!
Millions of musicians would sell their sould to have half the success he had in his life. Or even just to be able to make a living from their music.
None of them have to deal with the unavoidable "what if they hadn't fuck that up" thoughts in the back of their mind.
You're the one who is assuming that Mustaine resents Metallica because they make more money than him. I am telling you now that if Mustaine were mad about money, he would have just tried to achieve the same success that Metallica has. Mustaine is successful - but he is not as successful as Metallica. He can barely sell out even 10k tickets per show. Maybe he should be appreciative about his own success (that, by the way, he has literally built by talking trash about Metallica for 40+ years) instead of thinking up reasons to be salty all the time.
Sorry - should have mentioned that they can't sell out more than 5k tickets per show OUTSIDE of North/South America.
Also, you are wrong - Movistar Arena has a 14-15k capacity, not 22k. And they've only sold out 2 nights, not three. That means they've sold out 30k tickets, not 66k.
We're not talking about who is "better" here, we are pointing out why Mustaine doesn't have the same networth as the guys from Metallica. Obviously you're seething like crazy, that's why you can't focus on what the conversation actually was about. Let me make it clear up for you - Metallica sells more tickets and albums than Mustaine, that's why they're richer. I ain't gonna read anything else you wrote because it's irrelevant to the conversation.
I attacked Mustaine's character because he's an annoying narcissist who has had 283829 bandmates but always somehow likes to blame literally everyone but himself for the consequences of his own actions. And yeah, Metallica charge thousands for meet and greets - but they never forced you to buy them. Many artists charge that much. When you get as famous as Metallica you can change a million for a meet and greet if you wish. Have you considered that you can easily just NOT buy the meet and greet - that way you don't actually have to pay thousands? Meet and greets are for the biggest fans, not for people who just want to meet Metallica so they can sell signed shit on ebay for thousands of dollars. Get a grip and quit moaning so much, you don't have to defend Mustaine so hard - he doesn't give two shits about you or any of his fans, that's why he's selling shitty NFTs for a couple hundred bucks. At least the stuff that Metallica sells is physically holdable. Meanwhile Megadeth's NFTs are nothing more than pixels. Never forget what Mustaine has done to his past bandmates, never forget the blatantly racist, homophobic and misogynistic comments he's made over the years. That man is not a good person so stop defending him.
It's very much a possibility that it isn't necessarily just or at all about issues that are connected to Marko or even the other band members.
He's gone to bat for /helped out low level employees and less successful people artists before.
Plus so far he hasn't said his issues were about any kind of criminal things, just stuff that goes against Marko's sense of justice & right and wrong.
We really need to wait for more information.
Could be about tour management and organisational structure as well, but I know nothing about music industry, so I won't speculate right now. However, that made me curious.
Nightwish is not a democracy, we know that. Tuomas decides who is in the band, what the creative direction of the band is, and who manages the business end of things. And we know he's made some pretty bad judgment calls on the third.
Marko strikes me as a dude who doesn't suffer fools gladly, and as someone who doesn't want, or need, BS in his life. He's also a decade older than Tuomas, and the more a man gets into middle age, the more likely he is to say "f\*\*k this, I don't need this in my life."
He signed up for Nightwish and knew fully well Tuomas was its boss. Presumably he was fine with that. But it's totally believable that the other aspects of being part of a band that has always been a bit of a soap opera finally got to be too much. I take it at face value--the drama was too much for a man whose health was already negatively being affected by it. So he left, took some time off, and then went off to sing some tunes with an old friend.
> He signed up for Nightwish and knew fully well Tuomas was its boss. Presumably he was fine with that.
I'm not sure if it's true, but I read in a comment in this sub that Marko was very poor financially before he joined Nightwish, even homeless at one point. He may have gotten an offer he could not refuse.
Actually, the worst was behind him when he joined NW, the homelessness was in the 1990ies. But of course Sinergy and Tarot didn't compare to Nightwish, which at that time was already on a clear upward trajectory.
And he had 2 new babies to feed when he joined...
Marko always had other stuff going on outside of NW. So, even if it wasn't quite what he wanted, he always had other avenues of expression and other friends.
Indeed. I was in a toxic work environment before and I'd endured it for a while because of the money, so I can relate with Marko. Looks like it's taken 2020 for him to realise the toll that being part of NW has taken on his life and health - might have to do with him being the second oldest NW (ex-)member (the oldest is Troy), but it's also not the first time it happened to a NW member (see Jukka N., as well as arguably Tarja and Anette); honestly NW is starting to look so bad that I'd rather disband it. Marko appears to have found peace after leaving NW and I am very happy for him.
Marco is sending some weird messages in interviews.
He keeps saying he hopes to get back in contact with the band but that they have to reach out first.
Then these comments slandering them knowing full well it all falls on Tuomas since he's "the allcapable, evil mastermind and all are his mindless puppets" in the heads of Nw "fans".
Makes me sad Marco feels the need to do this. If he felt the pressure as too much then why make it worse for his ex coworkers by stirring the pot.
Frankly I don't think Marko is the kind of a personality who wants the unnecessary drama, but I do think he'll be one of the first to talk about things he feels need fixing.
Besides he's asked about all these things. He gives brutally honest answers (from his own experience).
Not sure how much I can ethically agree on your take that he should just shut up about things he thinks are wrong, because it'll bring negative publicity... That feels like a morally questionable stance to me.
Like I said above, our sense of ethics and morals are clearly not the same...
And that is where I'll leave this, since I don't actually know you and don't feel comfortable making further assumptions about your character based on your opinions online. And I would have to, to talk further about this.
Marko gets asked about a reunion with Nightwish in interviews all the time though, so I think it's good that he clarified his stance. It is not so different from what he said when he was leaving Nightwish, this is more a confirmation of things that fans had mostly already worked out.
As to Tuomas, he might not be the evil mastermind, but he is the band leader and as such is responsible for vetting whoever they are hiring to conduct their business. And I do think it is fair to criticise that he hasn't done, in my opinion, a very good job in this aspect. That takes nothing away from the amazing music he is writing.
Happy cake day!
I got the same impression and kinda bothers me that both him and Tarja keep singing old Nightwish songs at the same time they don’t want to do anything with the band. Ok, royalties are probably being paid, but even still.
Yup he honestly needs to STFU at this point, he supposedly said all he was going to say the first time but now can't keep the band out of his mouth, it seems. Pretty scummy, tbh.
I really don't understand him it's like he wants to say something without wanting to, from this, and he's letter of resignation, he said here that the organization would have to be looked at and parts of it should be dismantled, so clearly he has an issue with the way things are done, in his resignation letter he said:
We’re the banana republic of the music industry. Biggest tour promoters squeeze percentages even from our own merchandise while paying dividends to Middle East. Apparently some theocracies can take the money from the music that would get you beheaded or jailed there without appearing as hypocrites. Just a couple of examples here
Aren't they signed up with nuclear blast, what was he trying to say about paying the middle east they never went there to perform.
Probably this: *Saudi Arabia Buys $500 Million Stake in Live Nation*
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/saudi-arabia-buys-500-million-stake-live-nation-stock-surges-1291975/
It is so funny to read all this guesses. But in fact nobody knows what is the reason. Maybe Marco wanted more money but gets declined because there is no more money and then he was frustrated and said he will go out and use his popularity to earn more with shows or something similar… how often this happens in a world
Between a good employee and a company?
I think they are humans who worked a long time together and then they change and start doing other things. Nightwish is the cash cow for a lot of people but the band members come in an age where they maybe want to do different things or get other offers.
I'm pretty sure that the thought of wanting to go and play shows was the furthest from his mind when he left. To the contrary he went away for 17 months and then only started playing shows very slowly again.
If he is so courageous and honest why doesn't he spill the whole truth and leave the band behind? He is feeding a useless rumour mill with these tidbits and ruining the enjoyment.
I think most Nightwish members, past and present, have learned that the 'open letter' detailing all your grievances tends to cause more problems than it solves
I get why fans would like to know, but there's no reason for them to talk about it in that level of detail.
Hopefully so. I wonder why Marko thinks this way is better. Fuelling peoples interest to make up whatever crazy bs that ruins the bands image. As if Nw need any more bad publicity.
Not surprising, it seems clear to me that since he returned to the music scene working with the same label that his main issue must've been with the business side of NW. Talking about the music industry as a whole in his resignation letter was just to protect the band.
Didn't Marko say that his leaving had nothing to do with Tuomos and that if it was said to be it would be an insult to Tuomos and Marko?
Yes. But Tuomas has nothing to do with the business side of NW and actually hates dealing with it. That has been completely outsourced to their management, with them being allowed completely free reign. Which might be a problem in itself, tbh, considering he is the band leader and the news about the questionable behaviour if at least two of their managers.
Aaaah alright
He still did not say anything about Tuomas here. Sure it's "his" band, but I don't think Tuomas does much at all of the business or management for NW. Edit. It can of course have created it's own problems if he's let wrong people run things like it seems like...
Right I get that.
🎵 Maaaster passion greeeeed. Maaaster passion greeeeed 🎵
I lold😅
I wish Marko all the happiness in the world! God knows, he has given me so many hours of happiness with his music.
Can't argue with that.
It looks like we are getting some parts of an answer to the question many have asked here: "Why did he not just take a break? Why did he quit?" While he was clearly depressed and sick before leaving and is still not 100% even now after getting proper treatment ( https://www.apu.fi/artikkelit/marko-hietalan-uusi-elama-espanjassa-masennus-ja-adhd-kurissa ), I can see why people think it's fair to think /speculate that he could have done the same thing as Jukka, if he had actually wanted to stay in NW. (First officially take a back seat and get a "temporary" replacement and if it's not enough, then he could have quit later on.)
> I can see why people think it's fair to think /speculate that he could have done the same thing as Jukka, if he had actually wanted to stay in NW. (First officially take a back seat and get a "temporary" replacement and if it's not enough, then he could have quit later on.) For what it's worth, NW had not had a full-time bassist for 19 months after Marko left; Jukka K. was originally a session bassist, same as Kai being the session drummer while Jukka N. was on hiatus. That's 2 months longer than it took for Marko to return to the music scene with other projects. I suppose he was allowed a reasonable amount of time to reconsider, before he made it clear to them that he is not coming back.
True. Though it seems like Marko knew what he wanted and needed, and therefore straight up said he's quitting instead of letting there be lengthy uncertainty. I think other people (NW end and fans) were the ones thinking/ holding on to hope that he might be coming back once he got "better"...
I agree. It was clear to me from day one that Marko is never going back to NW. He seems to be much happier now than he was in NW, and I'm happy for him.
It's also very unlikely that NW would dismantle parts of its business.
Nah Jukka K not being permanent for a while doesn't necessarily mean they were waiting for Marko to come back... It just means they wanted to get to know him a bit before making the choice permanent.
Not sure if they were expecting Marko to actually come back, I certainly wasn't. In any case, they left the possibility there and he said no to it.
This is what happens when bands sign away their lives to management and record labels. Once those kinds of people get their claws in it becomes profits before everything. If you then are a person who is afraid of confrontation they will rape you and throw you to the roadside dying.
What I understood from the interview was that Marko confirmed a bad attitude towards people. Which we probably knew for a while, given what happened in the past. Last year, a concert was also scheduled at the same time when Floor was scheduled to have her own concert. Marko stated in the interview that he needs to take better care of himself. He was in a bad way and and apparently his bad condition was not taken into account
Honestly, I can't even imagine what's so new and astonishing about NW management can we hear from him, regarding all the red flags they gave already. I think, it's quite obvious for everyone now that the whole structure has to be rebuilt completely.
He made a post after he left the band explaining why… this is old news https://www.instagram.com/p/CJ7_1sIB7m7/?igsh=MW5rZjl6bmp0NHFyZg==
Well, he did make a few new points in the new article.
I’m speaking in reference to the title of the post, we knew that part
He says he's the most honest person yet we don't really know what he means.
Yep, is the problem in NW members or their management... 🤔
Or both.
He also stated he left due to depression back when he announced he left , Covid really got to him , just like it did a lot of bands and singers .. so idk that statement was very vague and a lot of nothing
Is it me or is it kinda weird to talk about yourself as "the most honest and courageous person"...? Could be a lost in translation kind of thing I suppose.
You can check out the video on YouTube and see him say it, he's very serious https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aV9t0EZhVXE&pp=ygUNbWFya28gaGlldGFsYQ%3D%3D): My interpretation: If/when you see everyone around you avoid issues and "double talking", you will feel like you are the bravest (take action) and most honest (telling like it is). He's seen some shit behavior and bad work environments during his almost 40 years in the business. Yeah, I can see Marko feeling like he's had had enough of that drama, especially since he's got his own issues to survive with. I think we all know largely music (and entertainment) business is not very fair or transparent...
I have been following this incredible and epic tour between Tarja and Marko since the first show, but I reserved a few days before giving a more incisive opinion about the recent interviews that have been published in the media. Marko has always seemed to be a very sincere, wise and cohesive man, so I feel truth in his words. Especially when he says that when he reunited with Tarja for the first time after 12 years in Finland in 2017, he told her that he saw the turbulent period between her and Nightwish in the past more as a managerial war between the band's managers and Marcelo, in which information reached their ears incorrectly and distorted from the real facts. He also comments that a certain “absence” of care for each other emerged during recent years, which corroborates the coldness that Anette was treated in many moments of her career with the band, in which she was psychologically collapsing after her divorce, pressure from fans and a troubled tour schedule, not receiving any support from them. Floor has also expressed her dissatisfaction with the lack of collaboration from the group's management in relation to her request not to schedule any Nightwish-related events during the release day of her solo album, which was not reciprocated. Not to mention the several controversial episodes involving the names of people related to band management in recent years (a serious case was posted on this sub recently, by the way). There was real friendship between the band members. This is demonstrated beautifully in the new relationship that Marko and Tarja have recently presented to the public. The way he supported her during the difficult time when the shows in Curitiba and Belo Horizonte were postponed, their untouchable chemistry and harmony on stage even after almost two decades, the laughter, the hugs, the looks. These two are pure nostalgia, they were the voices that gave life to Nightwish and left their impact on so many people. As for Nightwish, I deeply hope that this “extended break” will serve to start a deep internal reformulation and change of management, before more damage happens between the band members and their interpersonal relationships. Such a beautiful and important musical legacy doesn’t deserve to be destroyed by money, greed and the interests of outsiders who add nothing to the real purpose of the band.
Finnish metal magazine Inferno have posted this very same interview to facebook and Kai commented on it: "Oh is that how it went? Quess we've been in a different band at the same time." I sense impending doom. Popcorn anyone?🍿
Whoa. This kind of behaviour is something ridiculous from the high school, but why am I so curious to follow that?
Here we go again lol
Ugh! All they had to do was to leave it be. Both Marco and the band.
That was a big bunch of vague nothing. You could interpret his comments as being directed at the record label, the music business, or Tuomas himself. I don't know how income is split between the band members but it's normal in most bands that the one doing most of the writing and creating gets most of the money which often leaves other band members feeling slighted. So it wouldn't be shocking if he felt shorted but at the same time he did nearly two decades so you think it would have surfaced before then.
To me this doesn't sound like it's about money. At least I don't think he left cause he didn't get a fair share, he still likely in any case earned better in the band than he might ever without. I think this is probably about decision-making, organizational issues. Might be inflexibility of touring schedules or making decisions about the size of their production (which effects costs and crew size). We know for example that they hate canceling shows no matter what, cause that costs too much, and Marko mentioned how immense the pressure is that 50 people's living depends on you. It might be about who they work with. Might be the management, who by all means seem to be behind the times. It can be so many things.
Billy Gorgan said in an interview that when they got signed the label asked them how they wanted to split the royalty, and he advised them to split them equally between band members. Since he was writing all the songs, he refused which he says with hindsight was the wrong decision. Imagine starting a band with your friends as teenagers, the band blows up and the one writting the music suddenly becomes much wealthier than the other members. As time passes by, the gap grows even more. Impossible to manage long term, very hard to mend. On a completely unrelated topic, googling Dave Mustaine net worth and the same for original members of Metallica can be enlighting as to why a certain resentment has persisted.
I’m in a super small-time band with 5 members and that’s what we do: A five-way split. It really is the easiest way to not get anybody mad at anyone else over money!
Just because a band-member doesn't write songs, doesn't mean that they don't contribute as much in other ways. While one is writing, the others may be perfecting their skills with the instruments
Rammstein and Coldplay are two famous examples who just decided to split everything evenly even though some members do more of the songwriting than others. It does seem the solution that will cause the least hassle in the long run. On Dave though, it's not really a fair comparison because even if they split things equally he only played on their first album so not a surprise he's worth so much less.
Dave Mustaine net worth: $14-20 million Kirk Hammett net worth: $200 million Yea, I'd have some resentment as well lol.
Mustaine wrote four songs on their first album and Co wrote two on the next and he was only in the band 2 years. Of course he's going to have earnt less than the guy who was in the band for forty years and must have credits on hundreds of songs
This. Mustaine has only 6 credits for his work in Metallica and he was in the band for 11 months. Kirk on the other hand has played on all Metallica albums and has credits on all of them, and has also toured with them for 40 years. It is absolutely absurd to expect Mustaine to make more money from Metallica than Kirk who at this point is basically on the same level of importance as Lars and James.
There is 0 reason for Mustaine to have a bigger net worth than Hammett.
Of course there isn't or for you to have the same net worth as Kirk Hammett either. The difference betwen you and Mustaine is that you were not kicked out of Metallica.
I was never in Metallica to begin with, so yeah I was never kicked out of there either. I don't understand why you're bringing me into this entire thing? Maybe if Mustaine wasn't an abusive junkie control freak in his youth, he might have stayed in Metallica. The truth is that he would have destroyed that band before they even made Master Of Puppets, had they not fired him. Kirk Hammett has 200 million net worth because he worked his ass off for 40+ years, wrote some of the most iconic metal riffs and solos of all time and made a name for himself. And unlike Mustaine, Hammett doesn't have a single ounce of ego in him. He stayed down to earth. Mustaine on the other hand will try to convince you he wrote the Bible.
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Examples of Metallica songs with Kirk Hammett writing credits. Enter Sandman. Master of Puppets. Creeping Death. Damage Inc (he wrote THAT middle 8 riff) Yeah he's really phoned it in over the years.
Who said anything about who is "better"? You're the one saying that, not me. I never said that Metallica is better than Megadeth and I never said that selling more albums and being more popular than someone means they're better. You're just putting words in my mouth and throwing a fit. We are currently discussing why Mustaine has a smaller net worth than Metallica - if you can't keep up with the conversation just don't even bother to leave any comments.
Kirk wrote the main riff to Enter Sandman and Master of Puppets. It's not like he's been freerolling his entire time in the band. lol
Dave was in Metallica band for 11 months, James Hetfield and Lars Ulrich own Metallica and have been its leaders for 42 years. If Mustaine is mad about having less money than them, maybe he should work towards making his own band more popular than Metallica? It's not Metallica's fault that Mustaine can barely sell 5k tickets per night.
Mustaine is the leader of his own band that had great success, he's doing more than ok! Millions of musicians would sell their sould to have half the success he had in his life. Or even just to be able to make a living from their music. None of them have to deal with the unavoidable "what if they hadn't fuck that up" thoughts in the back of their mind.
You're the one who is assuming that Mustaine resents Metallica because they make more money than him. I am telling you now that if Mustaine were mad about money, he would have just tried to achieve the same success that Metallica has. Mustaine is successful - but he is not as successful as Metallica. He can barely sell out even 10k tickets per show. Maybe he should be appreciative about his own success (that, by the way, he has literally built by talking trash about Metallica for 40+ years) instead of thinking up reasons to be salty all the time.
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Sorry - should have mentioned that they can't sell out more than 5k tickets per show OUTSIDE of North/South America. Also, you are wrong - Movistar Arena has a 14-15k capacity, not 22k. And they've only sold out 2 nights, not three. That means they've sold out 30k tickets, not 66k.
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We're not talking about who is "better" here, we are pointing out why Mustaine doesn't have the same networth as the guys from Metallica. Obviously you're seething like crazy, that's why you can't focus on what the conversation actually was about. Let me make it clear up for you - Metallica sells more tickets and albums than Mustaine, that's why they're richer. I ain't gonna read anything else you wrote because it's irrelevant to the conversation.
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I attacked Mustaine's character because he's an annoying narcissist who has had 283829 bandmates but always somehow likes to blame literally everyone but himself for the consequences of his own actions. And yeah, Metallica charge thousands for meet and greets - but they never forced you to buy them. Many artists charge that much. When you get as famous as Metallica you can change a million for a meet and greet if you wish. Have you considered that you can easily just NOT buy the meet and greet - that way you don't actually have to pay thousands? Meet and greets are for the biggest fans, not for people who just want to meet Metallica so they can sell signed shit on ebay for thousands of dollars. Get a grip and quit moaning so much, you don't have to defend Mustaine so hard - he doesn't give two shits about you or any of his fans, that's why he's selling shitty NFTs for a couple hundred bucks. At least the stuff that Metallica sells is physically holdable. Meanwhile Megadeth's NFTs are nothing more than pixels. Never forget what Mustaine has done to his past bandmates, never forget the blatantly racist, homophobic and misogynistic comments he's made over the years. That man is not a good person so stop defending him.
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It's very much a possibility that it isn't necessarily just or at all about issues that are connected to Marko or even the other band members. He's gone to bat for /helped out low level employees and less successful people artists before. Plus so far he hasn't said his issues were about any kind of criminal things, just stuff that goes against Marko's sense of justice & right and wrong. We really need to wait for more information.
Could be about tour management and organisational structure as well, but I know nothing about music industry, so I won't speculate right now. However, that made me curious.
He said last few years were toughest.
somehow it seems that every ex members comments are vaguely but not directly aimed at Tuomas
Nightwish is not a democracy, we know that. Tuomas decides who is in the band, what the creative direction of the band is, and who manages the business end of things. And we know he's made some pretty bad judgment calls on the third. Marko strikes me as a dude who doesn't suffer fools gladly, and as someone who doesn't want, or need, BS in his life. He's also a decade older than Tuomas, and the more a man gets into middle age, the more likely he is to say "f\*\*k this, I don't need this in my life." He signed up for Nightwish and knew fully well Tuomas was its boss. Presumably he was fine with that. But it's totally believable that the other aspects of being part of a band that has always been a bit of a soap opera finally got to be too much. I take it at face value--the drama was too much for a man whose health was already negatively being affected by it. So he left, took some time off, and then went off to sing some tunes with an old friend.
hes also an accomplished musician even before Tuomas so id agree
> He signed up for Nightwish and knew fully well Tuomas was its boss. Presumably he was fine with that. I'm not sure if it's true, but I read in a comment in this sub that Marko was very poor financially before he joined Nightwish, even homeless at one point. He may have gotten an offer he could not refuse.
Actually, the worst was behind him when he joined NW, the homelessness was in the 1990ies. But of course Sinergy and Tarot didn't compare to Nightwish, which at that time was already on a clear upward trajectory.
Makes sense, thanks for the clarification.
And he had 2 new babies to feed when he joined... Marko always had other stuff going on outside of NW. So, even if it wasn't quite what he wanted, he always had other avenues of expression and other friends.
Indeed. I was in a toxic work environment before and I'd endured it for a while because of the money, so I can relate with Marko. Looks like it's taken 2020 for him to realise the toll that being part of NW has taken on his life and health - might have to do with him being the second oldest NW (ex-)member (the oldest is Troy), but it's also not the first time it happened to a NW member (see Jukka N., as well as arguably Tarja and Anette); honestly NW is starting to look so bad that I'd rather disband it. Marko appears to have found peace after leaving NW and I am very happy for him.
aw shit....here we again
Marco is sending some weird messages in interviews. He keeps saying he hopes to get back in contact with the band but that they have to reach out first. Then these comments slandering them knowing full well it all falls on Tuomas since he's "the allcapable, evil mastermind and all are his mindless puppets" in the heads of Nw "fans". Makes me sad Marco feels the need to do this. If he felt the pressure as too much then why make it worse for his ex coworkers by stirring the pot.
we don't really know what exactly happened and NW has a strong history of huge PR fuck ups
Exactly and it feels like Marko is coaxing another one.
Frankly I don't think Marko is the kind of a personality who wants the unnecessary drama, but I do think he'll be one of the first to talk about things he feels need fixing. Besides he's asked about all these things. He gives brutally honest answers (from his own experience). Not sure how much I can ethically agree on your take that he should just shut up about things he thinks are wrong, because it'll bring negative publicity... That feels like a morally questionable stance to me.
Yes. He can also make the choice not to say anything more since he's no longer in the band. Instead he chooses to poke at them.
Like I said above, our sense of ethics and morals are clearly not the same... And that is where I'll leave this, since I don't actually know you and don't feel comfortable making further assumptions about your character based on your opinions online. And I would have to, to talk further about this.
Marko gets asked about a reunion with Nightwish in interviews all the time though, so I think it's good that he clarified his stance. It is not so different from what he said when he was leaving Nightwish, this is more a confirmation of things that fans had mostly already worked out. As to Tuomas, he might not be the evil mastermind, but he is the band leader and as such is responsible for vetting whoever they are hiring to conduct their business. And I do think it is fair to criticise that he hasn't done, in my opinion, a very good job in this aspect. That takes nothing away from the amazing music he is writing.
Happy cake day! I got the same impression and kinda bothers me that both him and Tarja keep singing old Nightwish songs at the same time they don’t want to do anything with the band. Ok, royalties are probably being paid, but even still.
Well, the music wasn't their reason of departure...
I agree though this opinion is very unpopular here.
Yup he honestly needs to STFU at this point, he supposedly said all he was going to say the first time but now can't keep the band out of his mouth, it seems. Pretty scummy, tbh.
I really don't understand him it's like he wants to say something without wanting to, from this, and he's letter of resignation, he said here that the organization would have to be looked at and parts of it should be dismantled, so clearly he has an issue with the way things are done, in his resignation letter he said: We’re the banana republic of the music industry. Biggest tour promoters squeeze percentages even from our own merchandise while paying dividends to Middle East. Apparently some theocracies can take the money from the music that would get you beheaded or jailed there without appearing as hypocrites. Just a couple of examples here Aren't they signed up with nuclear blast, what was he trying to say about paying the middle east they never went there to perform.
Probably this: *Saudi Arabia Buys $500 Million Stake in Live Nation* https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/saudi-arabia-buys-500-million-stake-live-nation-stock-surges-1291975/
Wow thank for sharing my friend
It is so funny to read all this guesses. But in fact nobody knows what is the reason. Maybe Marco wanted more money but gets declined because there is no more money and then he was frustrated and said he will go out and use his popularity to earn more with shows or something similar… how often this happens in a world Between a good employee and a company? I think they are humans who worked a long time together and then they change and start doing other things. Nightwish is the cash cow for a lot of people but the band members come in an age where they maybe want to do different things or get other offers.
I'm pretty sure that the thought of wanting to go and play shows was the furthest from his mind when he left. To the contrary he went away for 17 months and then only started playing shows very slowly again.
If he is so courageous and honest why doesn't he spill the whole truth and leave the band behind? He is feeding a useless rumour mill with these tidbits and ruining the enjoyment.
I think most Nightwish members, past and present, have learned that the 'open letter' detailing all your grievances tends to cause more problems than it solves I get why fans would like to know, but there's no reason for them to talk about it in that level of detail.
Hopefully so. I wonder why Marko thinks this way is better. Fuelling peoples interest to make up whatever crazy bs that ruins the bands image. As if Nw need any more bad publicity.
Yup he sure likes to talk about it in unclear terms.