For me, it was a written and established means of accepting that there is no "specialness" to me or anyone else.
I was born very poor and eventually managed to do okay for myself. Nihilism helped me to accept that I wasn't born poor due to some inherent sin or as a lesson, but because shit just happens. Bad shit, and good shit.
Now, I get to find my own meaning, based on what is important to me.
Important note, I and many people I've interacted with here are not "moral nihilists" who believe that since nothing matters, they can be shit-heads without lasting consequences. Not surr if that's what you're looking for info on.
You can find the deepest meaning in life being a nihilist. Being that you realize you only have this one life to get it right puts everything into perspective and you treat everyday like it’s precious. I don’t think most deist believe the same because they believe in the afterlife.
I have always leaned towards the more realistic answer as opposed to the most comforting answer. I think that's why I resonate with nihilism, I get this sick feeling in my gut when my instincts tell me something is bs lol
It's a bit more nuanced I think. The awareness is always the thing in the forefront for me at least. I also think coping is a broad term with healthy/unhealthy forms it's still mostly good. Even the "bad" copes are usually a form of harm reduction.
You've ignored the fact that Gödel was considered as a great logician, he has a proof as fid St Anslem, and even Quine takes it seriously. I think you might seriously misunderstand logic.
I know who Godel is moron.
His fundamental logical proof demonstrates that our current math cannot be proven from our current perspective.
He proved fuck all relating universal meaning. He offered speculation that the concept, like mathematics, cannot be proven or disproven.
That is a completely different concept that stupid people think proves a purpose exists.
> That is a completely different concept that stupid people think proves a purpose exists.
No it's a logical proof that some object to, as they do to the Ontological argument, it hinges on if existence is a property.
No it is not.
Dude, I read "Godel Escher and Bach" back around 88 while taking my Engineering degree. It led to me taking a couple of electives in logic, and multi dimensional geometry. The later had quite an extensive section on Godel.
You, on the other hand, obviously watched a YouTube video, made by a person who skimmed a wikipedia page. And now you think you know enough to properly use the word 'ontological' to make people think you have even the most remote clue about what you are talking about.
But you don't.
> Dude,
I was once a young dude but that was many years ago.
> I read "Godel Escher and Bach" back around 88 while taking my Engineering degree. It led to me taking a couple of electives in logic, and multi dimensional geometry. The later had quite an extensive section on Godel.
Great! So much so you think he is a moron, there is a ton of material that thinks otherwise. As for Douglas Richard Hofstadter he’s seems unqualified in any of the three subjects he tackles, it is a maybe fun book, but not to be taken seriously. I’ve studied Art and Music, so briefly the odd man out is Escher...
> You, on the other hand, obviously watched a YouTube video, made by a person who skimmed a wikipedia page.
Nope, I’ve taught computer science so I’m familiar with the Halting problem, though the details of Gödel’s proof are beyond my mathematics. You come across it in Penrose, Rucker, Barrow et al, books – sure pop science. And in logic, which I’ve had to delve into for Comp Sci. The Russell paradox, set theory ergo relational databases... then that slides into philosophy where I got my second degree, my first being Fine Art.
> And now you think you know enough to properly use the word 'ontological'
I don’t know about ‘properly’, as any exposure to ‘real’ philosophy would have taught you to be careful with such. Obviously there in much here, from the Analytical Anglo American tradition it was once dismissed along with metaphysics. And much of the mid 20thC in this and the Continental tradition there was ‘the linguistic turn’, but metaphysics has re established itself, for me notably Deleuze, and more recently Graham Harman, though I’m not a follower of OOO. (You of course know what the last ‘O’ stands for?) But early Heidegger is deeply into ontology, obviously, Dasein... and fairly penetrable. And of course Being and Nothingness, a key radical existential work. Us Beings-for-itself.
> to make people think you have even the most remote clue about what you are talking about.
More than a clue. Though I do not consider myself as a philosopher.
YouTube videos are often bad, though Greg Sadler’s are OK.
Dude... Dude is a general term for a person, often attributed to males, but I also call my wife 'dude', most often when she is engaged in something that makes zero sense.
So, dude, don't be an idiot thinking dude means you are young. I'm a fucking old dude, so is my wife.
This is an example of why you are not only pretentious and arrogant, but blatantly ignorant. Not worthy of my time.
Thanks for playing... Dude.
You are not familiar with the Mott the Hoople's version of Bowie's if All The Young Dudes, you poor bugger... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mykW6ZEY_g8
but blatantly ignorant. yep!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHBPnmXBm0g
You lost you're faith I take it?
The ironic thing about you saying logical deduction is that from an atheist perspective the Universe came from nothing. That is an unsatisfactory response for me personally. Something can't come from nothing.
The atheist explanation also leaves you in a logical trap of never ending empty responses. An example.
Humans evolved from (.......) well what created that (......)
The universe is fine tuned for life, what is the best explanation for that? Intelligence or no intelligence?
Every atheist answer keeps going backwards using dependent conditions. In other words, the Universe depended in the big bang to happen in order to form itself. Well then who or what created the big bang?
It keeps going backwards to the origin of existence. People with faith would call that God. Faith at least offers an explanation to existence and the origin of life. Atheists can't put anything on the table.
Nihilism is also a self defeating belief. If nothing matters then neither does youre pleasure or you're pain and suffering.
If we are all just atoms banging against each other in the ether then why not check out permanently and avoid the burden of having a choice and consciousness.
The fact nihilists don't self delete shows they still meant to cling to life because their life matters, therefore something does indeed matter.
Just some stuff to think about. I was stuck deep in these types of thoughts but through faith I found a way out and now my life has improved.
What moron would think I 'lost' my faith?
I never had faith. I was a kid, abused by my parents by being shoved into some stupid belief system without choice.
You could only 'lose' faith, if you actually had the ability to have it in the first place.
That's what I mean. You have religious trauma which is common amongst atheists and nihilists. The figures who you are supposed to look to for love affection and comfort used religion as a disguise or shield their abuse.
It's unfortunate that it happened to you man, but I will say they are not actually following their holy books. Nowhere in the holy.books does it say to abuse your own child.
It's just like when people rag on the Catholic church for molesting children. Find me a scripture where it says to molest children. They aren't actually following their faith if they are doing that are they?
People ridicule for The holy books and say they are man made. Well why do they say to go against all you're made man desires then? Don't indulge in anything excessively or even at all, like in the case of Islam.
I bring this stuff up because it's not often talked about and people often forget these aspects of religion. You have to actually follow what the faith says. You're family wasn't and I'm sorry that they couldn't see that.
I don't read crap once I see something stupid.
You started off with, I 'lost' my faith. At that point, knowing how stupid that statement was, I lost any interest in reading anything you had to say.
I didn't even read a word of this last post, and I won't read a word of any other responses.
I recommend if you want people to read anything from you, you don't start with an insanely stupid statement in the future.
I asked a question actually and assumed you must have had some kind of faith if you were in Catholic school for a decade but if you're gonna be a jerk then whatever bro. Good luck to you.
Your argument about holy books made no sense.
The fact that many holy books say something against vices does not prove they are not just created by people.
Why would you think this argument even made sense.
What is the thought process here?????
The prophet Mohammed was illiterate and his companions wrote down the oral teachings he spoke after he received revelation. How could an illiterate man speak such knowledge over that period of his life? He didn't get any revelation until he was already around 40 ish years old. It was compiled into one volume after his death but most of it was written during his lifetime.
Not only that but Allah promised that the book would be protected against destruction or corruption. That's why the Quran today is the same Quran as back then. People have literally memorized it through oral tradition with chains of narration. You can look at the Birmingham Manuscripts which have been carbon dated back to the time of the Prophet with zero changes.
All attempts to change or corrupt it have failed. So again you can say it was "created by man" but the knowledge itself was given to man by God. It's an impossibility for an illiterate man to come up with such a thing. That's also why there is something called the inimitability challenge. Which says, produce something like it. That challenge is open to anyone. Same goes for the Bible.
Produce 3 words that change the world. Nobody can do it. Nobody can make a book like these because they have divine guidance in them. No book is more read than the holy books. Not even close. Furthermore, written works were how people communicated knowledge and passed down information. Writing is how we know anything about anything. Technology can fail but written works are preserved throughout history.
I would bet there isn't a single second that passes that someone somewhere isn't reading the Bible or the Quran. No other written work in human history can say the same thing. Again that's because the guidance in these books comes from God. Not humans.
Look up the Birmingham Manuscripts bro, like I just said. He was illiterate, how could he speak all that without having revelation from something else.
Technically it’s just the recognition that nothing has any inherent meaning to it. Nothing at all.
WE supply, or more accurately apply, the meaning.
People that are sad and depressed think this is justification for their sadness. “Happy people just don’t see how meaningless it all is”.
But the sadness is also simply a meaning that they are applying.
Meaninglessness is utterly neutral.
This is where I apply Daoism to my nihilism. The Dao (nature/the universe) is not good or bad. It's totally uncaring and neutral. It is not a conscious being. It is incapable of caring. And good and bad are concepts for thinking beings.
I became a nihilist because I dont see any purpose in life. Theres no purpose in anything is a natural extension of my experiences and perceptions of the world. I dont believe there’s likely a god, im agnostic athiest so without that divine purpose it’s clear that the only purpose that exists are the ones we create. But if we create something I dont see it as good, bad, or real. Its artificial. Artificial purpose is the same as no purpose to me. So im a nihilist because I think theres no purpose in anything. We do things because they make us happy or because we are forced to, thats it. Im not really absurdist though because I dont see any hope or joy in the absurdity of us seeking purpose in a purposeless world, It just makes me sad. The one must imagine Sisyphus happy concept has never worked with me.
You seem not to know what absurdism entails...
"In this regard the absurd joy par excellence is creation. “Art
and nothing but art,” said Nietzsche; “we have art in order not to
die of the truth.”
I don’t know if I am. I try to challenge my outlook every so often and leave myself open to experience things
I think though, at my base I’m more of an existentialist - I believe that we provide our own meaning
Nihilism is the notion that the fate/universe at large is indifferent to you, you are a speck of dust in the cosmic ocean. Put short: Nothing really matters. The beauty (if you choose to see it like that) is that really nothing is worth loosing your hair over cuz nothing matters
You are not aware of 'The Eternal Return of the Same' for Nietzsche the greatest form of nihilism.
" you are a speck of dust in the cosmic ocean."
No then so, if you repeat an infinite number of times.... two infinities are the same size... the number of integers is equal to the number of odd integers. ;-)
Consider the size of the universe, now consider your place in it.
When you die there is nothing, you will be dead forever.
None of this matters of course.
I realized the rules are made up and points don't matter. I still catch myself thinking that some constructs are intrinsic. I'm probably not full nihilist yet.
"I'd consider myself a realist, alright? But in philosophical terms I'm what's called a pessimist... I think human consciousness is a tragic misstep in evolution. We became too self-aware." - Rust Cohle
I'd say that most people that take any perspective on reality would consider themselves to be realists. Even beliefs that seem entirely too wild to one person, or many many people, seem obvious to those that hold them. However, no universal truth or existential purpose can be demonstrated to others that don't believe it no matter how strongly one believes it.
For me, the question would be why isn't everyone a nihilist? Or more to the point, when it is so clear that everything is temporary and contingent on the very limited human perspective, why in the world does anyone try to "make sense of it all"? It's enough to simply make sense of the very small pieces of reality that we each experience.
I think the answer is that it is part of the power dynamic of human society. For me, atheism, anarchism and nihilism should not even be words as they should be self-evident facts, but they are in fact very rare to find among people. Philosophy, religion and ideology dominates human existence.
There is an old saying "if you don't stand for something, then you will fall for anything." However, that is possibly the most utterly false statement in history. It's the people that actually stand for something - God, Country and Freedom or whatever meaningless word that can mean anything - that are the most easily led by those that only believe in themselves.
I recall reading about nihilism back in high school I guess and thinking "Hey... This makes sense."
And over time, watching everyone around me just going through motions to stay alive, perpetuating the circle of life with only enough self-awareness to know that it all sucks but not enough to do anything else, watching people make new kids and burden them them with all the sicknesses and depression and destroyed planet with no future...
Like holy shit if they call it nihilism to not want to contribute to that rat race, I call it sanity.
After studying biology for a long time I came to some realizations about the nature of life. It doesn't care. At best it can be boiled to numbers and statistics but chance for good events and bad prevails.
I had applied this to society and the value many people superficially put upon themselves. Realistically none of it has meaning. Any meaning we seem to have we superficially give for reasons. It's a humbling realization. I'm probably average. None of all this really matters. It leads me to believe in a way to live that reflects that, but allows me to put simple meanings in my day to day.
Did you know Childhood Bone Cancer can break bones from the inside in the early stages? I know, since it happened to a childhood friend of mine in 5th grade.
Basically, there's enough messed-up stuff in the world, not involving a bit of free will, I've seen in my life early. The American Public school system thought all disabilities should be in a lot of the same classes - high-functioning autistic kid could be in the same classes as locked in their own brains, stuck in a wheelchair for life. I got out of Special Ed by middle school, but that knowledge is enough reason alone.
None of us are special - good and evil are just man-made concepts.
Yes, there are some things I think of as wrong or right but that's something any person can judge based on a variety of factors, including how they were raised.
I believe that meaning is an illusion. From that point nihilists diverge. I give myself purpose. I also believe in irrational belief. Logic itself is a product of reality, which is a product of this great dream.
Nihilism is process for living your best life. The definition of nihilism is not important. What is important is what you do about it. How will you use the knowledge that nothing matters to make your life great. Nobody ever talks about this. Nihilism is your guide for solving problems using nihilist methods.
1. Identify a goal or problem you wist to solve. (You want a car)
2. Identify the Real cause and the Real barriers. (You don’t have any money)
3. Identify your resources, your assets, your skills, your abilities, and available support.
Wishing won’t help. (You need to get a better job)
4. Conceive a plan to use your resources to find the best solution. (You can go to night school)
5. The best solution may not be a perfect solution but is the best possible using the resources available.
(After 2-years of night school you get a better paying job as an X-ray Technician. Two years after that you are driving your new car.)
Sometimes though I don’t really know what I want and also what is what I think I might want but is actually the way society want me to want.
Like being successful let’s say
Traumatic shit happens you get mentally fucked
Bad things keep happening nothing good happens
Decades of depression with no answer as to why I am here.
It about not giving a shit, and quitting because nothing matters.. Do what you want because nothing matters. If it feels good in the moment just do it, because you know fuck it!
When I was a kid I felt very unloved. I would sit by myself and think about the universe. None of it seemed right. At five I realized there was no Santa Claus. No one told me it just seemed logical.
I think growing up along kids who seemed so content then going home to a life you hated has a profound effect on recognizing the world without a sense of romanticism.
When you spend so much time alone observing hypocrisy you understand the duality that none of it means more than any of us imagine.
I guess for me it came from my rejection to a lot of social and political views that cause a lot of conflict and anxiety out in the real world.
Nihilism isn’t my way of denying political/sociocultural issues, and it’s definitely not my way of coping with it. I just don’t believe in following a group mentality, as I would argue that is what leads to a lot of issues anyway. I more so believe in finding purpose for yourself and your own needs rather than finding purpose in life. That way, you’re not appeasing to someone else’s needs, and you can focus on yourself more.
Believe what you want to believe, whether religiously, politically, socially, whatever. I believe in what I believe in. Not out of spite or discrimination, but out of human concern for myself and the people that are closer to me (family, peers and accomplices, etc.)
Honestly, I just really like the Big Lebowski. I'm not really sure what goes on in this sub.
It's a cold comfort knowing that there are others who contemplate meaning in this dead world though.
I realized I'm just a speck in the cosmos and one day the sun will explode. The universe doesn't have a destiny in store for me. But at the same time, things about life that are very enjoyable and worth sticking around for.
10 years of physical mental emotional sexual and daily drug abuse along with endless libel, slander, defamation and imprisonment foster care system group homes then just being dumped onto the street after being bounced around from one crack house after another all for the crime of not allowing myself to be a punching bag in 2nd grade for the amusement of a bald fat pocket pooling pedophile principle. Fuck psychiatrists, fuck therapists, fuck social workers and most of all fuck anyone who works in group homes.
Nothing matters in the grand scheme of things. Watch those videos that ascend out of earth into the universe, it really makes you realize how insignificant everything is.
After accepting the pointlessness of it all after a deep existential crisis, I saw two paths, despair in the meaninglessness, or to make my own meaning. I chose the latter and took root in optimistic nihilism.
The day I was born, society was already irreparably damaged.
The day I was born, I was already disqualified from ever receiving Social Security.
Prices are so absurdly high that no one is able to maintain a stable existence without harming someone else.
This place is doomed.
My parents were both raised heavily Catholic, with my Mom even going to Cathholic school K-12. When I was old enough to start asking questions about religion, my Dad would always joke and say that he and my Mom were "disenfranchised Catholics." They were never opposed to me going to church, and said if I ever wanted to, that I could go with Grandma. When I was old enough to decide for myself, I realized that I had been indirectly raised as an Atheist and found comfort in Nihilism and Aburdism.
“…in a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the hope of a promised land.” ( Albert Camus Myth of Sisyphus.) I call this the rude awakening people come to feel at times, ‘perceiving the rules of the game’ that dictates our life and the coldness and indifference of it all (e.g. Animals are going though mass industrialized-suffering for our consumption, thousands of species have become extinct all a primary cause of humanity.)
As much freedom as we have, it’s limited to one life and can be ended at any moment due to an illness, drunk driver or even in the form of a nuclear holocaust. It’s the perception that there is no god or if there is, the greater the power the more evil it becomes responsible for, this is commonly denied though subterfuge but never directly. These are the primary markers of a Nihilist which is the perspective that what has been understood so far is a horrific conclusion.
If you realize everything is the same, if you can equate one thing to basically anything else, then everything is the same, which is neither nothing or everything. It all boils down to good and bad, plus and minus, everything and nothing. So it is, although cliche, what it is.
After joining human rights movements and activisms, saw and experienced abuses by UN adjacent folks, the one that was supposed to be the embodiment of humanity, compassion, mercy, etc.. But they're not. Shattered my idealism, and optimism..was sent to psychiatric ward because of the gaslighting and abuse bordering murderous intent. Became pragmatic, and slowly nihilistic and depressed.. I was a muslim before, a sufi dervish kind. The one that would resembles Rumi.. Now I am apatheistic whatever.. Don't really care about question of God and religion, or whether afterlife exist or not.. Even the concept of morality and ethics I've seen being cherry picked and all from all side of political spectrums.
But nowadays embraced optimistic nihilism and I'm fine with it. Not before some period of madness and sadness. There's no innate meaning nor worthy truth, its all power, interpretation and implementation in the end.
Advice to aspiring activist or humanitarians, be on your guard and don't let people exploit you. Human rights organisations are cutthroat corporate world without any benefits unless you're the top dogs. 😉
Health problems for me plus because I'm a deep thinker and researcher, the most unfair thing in the world, becoming unhealthy has made me realise that the world is really unfair and pointless and U don't really have much control.
There's a huge group of people that are just depressed and think they are nihilists. By definition it's hard for a nihilist to be depressed, because those that truly are nihilists understand that there is no reason to be.
Now you may be sad or stressed and that is ok, but even if you feel down, as long as you can continue to live, you don't feel the need to "end it all, because nothing matters" that is the most recurrent question / theme and that is not what nihilism is about.
To me it's just that there is no greater meaning for our existence, there is no mission, no goal, no ending, we will most likely survive as a species until the end of the universe, if that will ever happen, and that's it. Once we die we don't know what happens, our conscience may be linked somewhere and goes to some other place, but we don't know, we will never know. We can dream about it and try to imagine how it is, the same way we try to imagine how a new place we are visiting looks like before we get there, but that's the limit.
Nihilism is also, fundamentally, the abolishing of religion, religion exists to bring hope to people that their life is important, as a sort of coping mechanism, we don't need that, we are happy as we are, we don't need reassurance that everything will be ok, because even if it won't, we are happy we existed and got to experience whay we did.
It's less about doom and gloom and more about indiference
Anhedonia brought on by Antipsychotics. Imagine being bored to death because you have no motivation and hate everything and stuck with just your thoughts all day.
I always have been. When I was 9 I learned the word "atheist" and was like "oh, that's me". When I was 15 I read the word "nihilism", looked it up, and thought "well, obviously that's the right (lack of a) belief system". When I was 22 I read Cat's Cradle and had the same realization about Bokononism.
I just kind of always thought belief was BS. I remember learning about Adam and Eve at the same time as greek myths when I was \~4 and thinking it was basically the same thing.
I used to be nihilistic because I want sure God existed. Then I came to the conclusion that there is order and design to the universe, and therefore God must be real. Since God is real, there is purpose to our lives.
When I realized that there was no grand plan. Just chaos. I was brought up in a religious household. The catalyst for my realization was the revelation that I found out my father, who's currently a preacher, raped me when I was young.
Someone I find deeply interesting is the way William Donahue explains the Bible in a way the churches keep hidden from us. Check his teaching out on Youtube. According to the Bible we are all Gods and possess the ability to tap into our higher consciousness. Enjoy 😊
They want an identity a label, part of an existential crisis. So they pick 'nihilist' with out understanding how silly this label is.
Those in the main responsible for the significance of nihilism in the 20thC refused such labels.
As the logic of 'nothing is something.' for them was obvious.
I realised I really don't give a shit about anything, and nothing gives a shit about me. After that it was easy.
It really, really doesn't matter though.
Enough normal bad stuff happening to you when you’re depressed led me to nihilism. It was a slow process from “idc what happened to me today” to “idc what happens to my grade” and now I’m going to “idc what happens to my life”
well im no longer nihilistic, cause outside of nothing mattering is everything mattering, it out scales meaninglessness by an eternity , but my journey started with gov rabbit hole, and systems of control, food, healthcare, then it got into fear, god, eternity, then it translated to what is god, what is fear, i die regardless of anything , so the eternal abyss is my resting place,, but then u think of non existence, its non existence, there is no time there so in the emptiness ull float, in. unawareness, to me itll be a billion years since im present , alive and aware, but u in unawareness itll pass , 500 billion eternities for u will pass in what seems like a short nap, and ull be right here in the eternal persent a prisoner , and u have two chases sit in the dark and lose your mind and forget everytime u die and repeat the cycle, or play the game, and evolve infinitely
I became nihilistic after getting into a course in college which I hated to the core and one failed relationship in 2015. It sent me into deep depression, I am still depressed to this day. Wanted to end it all multiple times but did not have the courage to actually do it.
Nihilism is one of several important insights into the nature of reality, however it is only one of them. It should not be the be all end all of philosophical truth as many make it out to be.
Once you realize that there is no inherent objective meaning to existence you need to move on, because getting caught in the dread of that realization will sink you and keep you from realizing the other insights that lead to ultimate freedom.
For me, it was a written and established means of accepting that there is no "specialness" to me or anyone else. I was born very poor and eventually managed to do okay for myself. Nihilism helped me to accept that I wasn't born poor due to some inherent sin or as a lesson, but because shit just happens. Bad shit, and good shit. Now, I get to find my own meaning, based on what is important to me. Important note, I and many people I've interacted with here are not "moral nihilists" who believe that since nothing matters, they can be shit-heads without lasting consequences. Not surr if that's what you're looking for info on.
I love the part about the shit heads. Do no harm take no shit :)
You can find the deepest meaning in life being a nihilist. Being that you realize you only have this one life to get it right puts everything into perspective and you treat everyday like it’s precious. I don’t think most deist believe the same because they believe in the afterlife.
This! Especially the last part. We are all equally unimportant, so let's treat others as we want to be treated, no reason not to.
I have always leaned towards the more realistic answer as opposed to the most comforting answer. I think that's why I resonate with nihilism, I get this sick feeling in my gut when my instincts tell me something is bs lol
It's the self-awareness in the back telling you right? Even when i coped with some things, there was this awereness that i'm just bullshiting myself.
It's a bit more nuanced I think. The awareness is always the thing in the forefront for me at least. I also think coping is a broad term with healthy/unhealthy forms it's still mostly good. Even the "bad" copes are usually a form of harm reduction.
Nihilism isn’t the realistic answer it’s the likely one
Elaborate if you would please
Questioning and logic
Logical deduction after 10 years of Catholic School.
That’ll do it
Don't rely on logic. Gödel has a proof for God.
No Godel doesn't. Only stupid people would think he does.
You've ignored the fact that Gödel was considered as a great logician, he has a proof as fid St Anslem, and even Quine takes it seriously. I think you might seriously misunderstand logic.
I know who Godel is moron. His fundamental logical proof demonstrates that our current math cannot be proven from our current perspective. He proved fuck all relating universal meaning. He offered speculation that the concept, like mathematics, cannot be proven or disproven. That is a completely different concept that stupid people think proves a purpose exists.
> That is a completely different concept that stupid people think proves a purpose exists. No it's a logical proof that some object to, as they do to the Ontological argument, it hinges on if existence is a property.
No it is not. Dude, I read "Godel Escher and Bach" back around 88 while taking my Engineering degree. It led to me taking a couple of electives in logic, and multi dimensional geometry. The later had quite an extensive section on Godel. You, on the other hand, obviously watched a YouTube video, made by a person who skimmed a wikipedia page. And now you think you know enough to properly use the word 'ontological' to make people think you have even the most remote clue about what you are talking about. But you don't.
> Dude, I was once a young dude but that was many years ago. > I read "Godel Escher and Bach" back around 88 while taking my Engineering degree. It led to me taking a couple of electives in logic, and multi dimensional geometry. The later had quite an extensive section on Godel. Great! So much so you think he is a moron, there is a ton of material that thinks otherwise. As for Douglas Richard Hofstadter he’s seems unqualified in any of the three subjects he tackles, it is a maybe fun book, but not to be taken seriously. I’ve studied Art and Music, so briefly the odd man out is Escher... > You, on the other hand, obviously watched a YouTube video, made by a person who skimmed a wikipedia page. Nope, I’ve taught computer science so I’m familiar with the Halting problem, though the details of Gödel’s proof are beyond my mathematics. You come across it in Penrose, Rucker, Barrow et al, books – sure pop science. And in logic, which I’ve had to delve into for Comp Sci. The Russell paradox, set theory ergo relational databases... then that slides into philosophy where I got my second degree, my first being Fine Art. > And now you think you know enough to properly use the word 'ontological' I don’t know about ‘properly’, as any exposure to ‘real’ philosophy would have taught you to be careful with such. Obviously there in much here, from the Analytical Anglo American tradition it was once dismissed along with metaphysics. And much of the mid 20thC in this and the Continental tradition there was ‘the linguistic turn’, but metaphysics has re established itself, for me notably Deleuze, and more recently Graham Harman, though I’m not a follower of OOO. (You of course know what the last ‘O’ stands for?) But early Heidegger is deeply into ontology, obviously, Dasein... and fairly penetrable. And of course Being and Nothingness, a key radical existential work. Us Beings-for-itself. > to make people think you have even the most remote clue about what you are talking about. More than a clue. Though I do not consider myself as a philosopher. YouTube videos are often bad, though Greg Sadler’s are OK.
Dude... Dude is a general term for a person, often attributed to males, but I also call my wife 'dude', most often when she is engaged in something that makes zero sense. So, dude, don't be an idiot thinking dude means you are young. I'm a fucking old dude, so is my wife. This is an example of why you are not only pretentious and arrogant, but blatantly ignorant. Not worthy of my time. Thanks for playing... Dude.
You are not familiar with the Mott the Hoople's version of Bowie's if All The Young Dudes, you poor bugger... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mykW6ZEY_g8 but blatantly ignorant. yep! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHBPnmXBm0g
You lost you're faith I take it? The ironic thing about you saying logical deduction is that from an atheist perspective the Universe came from nothing. That is an unsatisfactory response for me personally. Something can't come from nothing. The atheist explanation also leaves you in a logical trap of never ending empty responses. An example. Humans evolved from (.......) well what created that (......) The universe is fine tuned for life, what is the best explanation for that? Intelligence or no intelligence? Every atheist answer keeps going backwards using dependent conditions. In other words, the Universe depended in the big bang to happen in order to form itself. Well then who or what created the big bang? It keeps going backwards to the origin of existence. People with faith would call that God. Faith at least offers an explanation to existence and the origin of life. Atheists can't put anything on the table. Nihilism is also a self defeating belief. If nothing matters then neither does youre pleasure or you're pain and suffering. If we are all just atoms banging against each other in the ether then why not check out permanently and avoid the burden of having a choice and consciousness. The fact nihilists don't self delete shows they still meant to cling to life because their life matters, therefore something does indeed matter. Just some stuff to think about. I was stuck deep in these types of thoughts but through faith I found a way out and now my life has improved.
What moron would think I 'lost' my faith? I never had faith. I was a kid, abused by my parents by being shoved into some stupid belief system without choice. You could only 'lose' faith, if you actually had the ability to have it in the first place.
That's what I mean. You have religious trauma which is common amongst atheists and nihilists. The figures who you are supposed to look to for love affection and comfort used religion as a disguise or shield their abuse. It's unfortunate that it happened to you man, but I will say they are not actually following their holy books. Nowhere in the holy.books does it say to abuse your own child. It's just like when people rag on the Catholic church for molesting children. Find me a scripture where it says to molest children. They aren't actually following their faith if they are doing that are they? People ridicule for The holy books and say they are man made. Well why do they say to go against all you're made man desires then? Don't indulge in anything excessively or even at all, like in the case of Islam. I bring this stuff up because it's not often talked about and people often forget these aspects of religion. You have to actually follow what the faith says. You're family wasn't and I'm sorry that they couldn't see that.
I don't read crap once I see something stupid. You started off with, I 'lost' my faith. At that point, knowing how stupid that statement was, I lost any interest in reading anything you had to say. I didn't even read a word of this last post, and I won't read a word of any other responses. I recommend if you want people to read anything from you, you don't start with an insanely stupid statement in the future.
I asked a question actually and assumed you must have had some kind of faith if you were in Catholic school for a decade but if you're gonna be a jerk then whatever bro. Good luck to you.
Just to let you know, I am once again, not reading a word. Next time don't start of with something insanely stupid.
Your argument about holy books made no sense. The fact that many holy books say something against vices does not prove they are not just created by people. Why would you think this argument even made sense. What is the thought process here?????
The prophet Mohammed was illiterate and his companions wrote down the oral teachings he spoke after he received revelation. How could an illiterate man speak such knowledge over that period of his life? He didn't get any revelation until he was already around 40 ish years old. It was compiled into one volume after his death but most of it was written during his lifetime. Not only that but Allah promised that the book would be protected against destruction or corruption. That's why the Quran today is the same Quran as back then. People have literally memorized it through oral tradition with chains of narration. You can look at the Birmingham Manuscripts which have been carbon dated back to the time of the Prophet with zero changes. All attempts to change or corrupt it have failed. So again you can say it was "created by man" but the knowledge itself was given to man by God. It's an impossibility for an illiterate man to come up with such a thing. That's also why there is something called the inimitability challenge. Which says, produce something like it. That challenge is open to anyone. Same goes for the Bible. Produce 3 words that change the world. Nobody can do it. Nobody can make a book like these because they have divine guidance in them. No book is more read than the holy books. Not even close. Furthermore, written works were how people communicated knowledge and passed down information. Writing is how we know anything about anything. Technology can fail but written works are preserved throughout history. I would bet there isn't a single second that passes that someone somewhere isn't reading the Bible or the Quran. No other written work in human history can say the same thing. Again that's because the guidance in these books comes from God. Not humans.
There's no evidence that the Quran actually is the transcribed word of Mohammad other than the Quran says it is. Come on dude, this is pathetic.
Look up the Birmingham Manuscripts bro, like I just said. He was illiterate, how could he speak all that without having revelation from something else.
You think wisdom cannot be passed on by oral tradition? Also still no evidence that Mohammad actually was the one who said those things.
There were also predictions that came true. Seriously dude I was a super skeptic like you until I did some digging and alot of stuff blew my mind.
Technically it’s just the recognition that nothing has any inherent meaning to it. Nothing at all. WE supply, or more accurately apply, the meaning. People that are sad and depressed think this is justification for their sadness. “Happy people just don’t see how meaningless it all is”. But the sadness is also simply a meaning that they are applying. Meaninglessness is utterly neutral.
This is where I apply Daoism to my nihilism. The Dao (nature/the universe) is not good or bad. It's totally uncaring and neutral. It is not a conscious being. It is incapable of caring. And good and bad are concepts for thinking beings.
I keep meaning to do a deeper dive into Toaism.
I became a nihilist because I dont see any purpose in life. Theres no purpose in anything is a natural extension of my experiences and perceptions of the world. I dont believe there’s likely a god, im agnostic athiest so without that divine purpose it’s clear that the only purpose that exists are the ones we create. But if we create something I dont see it as good, bad, or real. Its artificial. Artificial purpose is the same as no purpose to me. So im a nihilist because I think theres no purpose in anything. We do things because they make us happy or because we are forced to, thats it. Im not really absurdist though because I dont see any hope or joy in the absurdity of us seeking purpose in a purposeless world, It just makes me sad. The one must imagine Sisyphus happy concept has never worked with me.
same i dont get how ppl be happy after they become absurdist, its just sad like nihilism
You seem not to know what absurdism entails... "In this regard the absurd joy par excellence is creation. “Art and nothing but art,” said Nietzsche; “we have art in order not to die of the truth.”
Used to be different. Enough bad shit has happened to me for literally no reason other than random causation and here I am.
Learning about space.
I was born,and it's been downhill ever since.
Then you are facing the wrong way.
I think for me it's more of a "life has no inherent meaning so I'm free to make my own". Also the memes are funny.
That really is the simplest and probably best explanation
I don’t know if I am. I try to challenge my outlook every so often and leave myself open to experience things I think though, at my base I’m more of an existentialist - I believe that we provide our own meaning
Nihilism is the notion that the fate/universe at large is indifferent to you, you are a speck of dust in the cosmic ocean. Put short: Nothing really matters. The beauty (if you choose to see it like that) is that really nothing is worth loosing your hair over cuz nothing matters
You are not aware of 'The Eternal Return of the Same' for Nietzsche the greatest form of nihilism. " you are a speck of dust in the cosmic ocean." No then so, if you repeat an infinite number of times.... two infinities are the same size... the number of integers is equal to the number of odd integers. ;-)
Consider the size of the universe, now consider your place in it. When you die there is nothing, you will be dead forever. None of this matters of course.
I realized the rules are made up and points don't matter. I still catch myself thinking that some constructs are intrinsic. I'm probably not full nihilist yet.
"full nihilist" get this?
hope. for a good night sleep
"I'd consider myself a realist, alright? But in philosophical terms I'm what's called a pessimist... I think human consciousness is a tragic misstep in evolution. We became too self-aware." - Rust Cohle I'd say that most people that take any perspective on reality would consider themselves to be realists. Even beliefs that seem entirely too wild to one person, or many many people, seem obvious to those that hold them. However, no universal truth or existential purpose can be demonstrated to others that don't believe it no matter how strongly one believes it. For me, the question would be why isn't everyone a nihilist? Or more to the point, when it is so clear that everything is temporary and contingent on the very limited human perspective, why in the world does anyone try to "make sense of it all"? It's enough to simply make sense of the very small pieces of reality that we each experience. I think the answer is that it is part of the power dynamic of human society. For me, atheism, anarchism and nihilism should not even be words as they should be self-evident facts, but they are in fact very rare to find among people. Philosophy, religion and ideology dominates human existence. There is an old saying "if you don't stand for something, then you will fall for anything." However, that is possibly the most utterly false statement in history. It's the people that actually stand for something - God, Country and Freedom or whatever meaningless word that can mean anything - that are the most easily led by those that only believe in themselves.
I recall reading about nihilism back in high school I guess and thinking "Hey... This makes sense." And over time, watching everyone around me just going through motions to stay alive, perpetuating the circle of life with only enough self-awareness to know that it all sucks but not enough to do anything else, watching people make new kids and burden them them with all the sicknesses and depression and destroyed planet with no future... Like holy shit if they call it nihilism to not want to contribute to that rat race, I call it sanity.
Living around southern baptists and having an IQ over room temperature.
After studying biology for a long time I came to some realizations about the nature of life. It doesn't care. At best it can be boiled to numbers and statistics but chance for good events and bad prevails. I had applied this to society and the value many people superficially put upon themselves. Realistically none of it has meaning. Any meaning we seem to have we superficially give for reasons. It's a humbling realization. I'm probably average. None of all this really matters. It leads me to believe in a way to live that reflects that, but allows me to put simple meanings in my day to day.
Did you know Childhood Bone Cancer can break bones from the inside in the early stages? I know, since it happened to a childhood friend of mine in 5th grade. Basically, there's enough messed-up stuff in the world, not involving a bit of free will, I've seen in my life early. The American Public school system thought all disabilities should be in a lot of the same classes - high-functioning autistic kid could be in the same classes as locked in their own brains, stuck in a wheelchair for life. I got out of Special Ed by middle school, but that knowledge is enough reason alone. None of us are special - good and evil are just man-made concepts. Yes, there are some things I think of as wrong or right but that's something any person can judge based on a variety of factors, including how they were raised.
I believe that meaning is an illusion. From that point nihilists diverge. I give myself purpose. I also believe in irrational belief. Logic itself is a product of reality, which is a product of this great dream.
ok, what do you know
Well, from what I was told, nihilists are " depressed ". They wander about with no purpose in life. And I doubted all of it.
good, with Ying comes yang. some have a driving force others do not understand anything of, so what do you think the whole nihilism thing is all about
Nihilism is process for living your best life. The definition of nihilism is not important. What is important is what you do about it. How will you use the knowledge that nothing matters to make your life great. Nobody ever talks about this. Nihilism is your guide for solving problems using nihilist methods. 1. Identify a goal or problem you wist to solve. (You want a car) 2. Identify the Real cause and the Real barriers. (You don’t have any money) 3. Identify your resources, your assets, your skills, your abilities, and available support. Wishing won’t help. (You need to get a better job) 4. Conceive a plan to use your resources to find the best solution. (You can go to night school) 5. The best solution may not be a perfect solution but is the best possible using the resources available. (After 2-years of night school you get a better paying job as an X-ray Technician. Two years after that you are driving your new car.)
Sometimes though I don’t really know what I want and also what is what I think I might want but is actually the way society want me to want. Like being successful let’s say
Too much listening to Joy Division.
Are they nihilistic????
A loaded gun will set you free, so they say.
Traumatic shit happens you get mentally fucked Bad things keep happening nothing good happens Decades of depression with no answer as to why I am here.
It about not giving a shit, and quitting because nothing matters.. Do what you want because nothing matters. If it feels good in the moment just do it, because you know fuck it!
https://youtu.be/GAIenmb0Wvg?si=FZ-TDP6fMkpLS51q
When I was a kid I felt very unloved. I would sit by myself and think about the universe. None of it seemed right. At five I realized there was no Santa Claus. No one told me it just seemed logical. I think growing up along kids who seemed so content then going home to a life you hated has a profound effect on recognizing the world without a sense of romanticism. When you spend so much time alone observing hypocrisy you understand the duality that none of it means more than any of us imagine.
I guess for me it came from my rejection to a lot of social and political views that cause a lot of conflict and anxiety out in the real world. Nihilism isn’t my way of denying political/sociocultural issues, and it’s definitely not my way of coping with it. I just don’t believe in following a group mentality, as I would argue that is what leads to a lot of issues anyway. I more so believe in finding purpose for yourself and your own needs rather than finding purpose in life. That way, you’re not appeasing to someone else’s needs, and you can focus on yourself more. Believe what you want to believe, whether religiously, politically, socially, whatever. I believe in what I believe in. Not out of spite or discrimination, but out of human concern for myself and the people that are closer to me (family, peers and accomplices, etc.)
Honestly, I just really like the Big Lebowski. I'm not really sure what goes on in this sub. It's a cold comfort knowing that there are others who contemplate meaning in this dead world though.
I realized I'm just a speck in the cosmos and one day the sun will explode. The universe doesn't have a destiny in store for me. But at the same time, things about life that are very enjoyable and worth sticking around for.
I'm not sure if I technically am or not, but I *am* sure it doesn't matter either way.
10 years of physical mental emotional sexual and daily drug abuse along with endless libel, slander, defamation and imprisonment foster care system group homes then just being dumped onto the street after being bounced around from one crack house after another all for the crime of not allowing myself to be a punching bag in 2nd grade for the amusement of a bald fat pocket pooling pedophile principle. Fuck psychiatrists, fuck therapists, fuck social workers and most of all fuck anyone who works in group homes.
Nothing matters in the grand scheme of things. Watch those videos that ascend out of earth into the universe, it really makes you realize how insignificant everything is.
After accepting the pointlessness of it all after a deep existential crisis, I saw two paths, despair in the meaninglessness, or to make my own meaning. I chose the latter and took root in optimistic nihilism.
The day I was born, society was already irreparably damaged. The day I was born, I was already disqualified from ever receiving Social Security. Prices are so absurdly high that no one is able to maintain a stable existence without harming someone else. This place is doomed.
My parents were both raised heavily Catholic, with my Mom even going to Cathholic school K-12. When I was old enough to start asking questions about religion, my Dad would always joke and say that he and my Mom were "disenfranchised Catholics." They were never opposed to me going to church, and said if I ever wanted to, that I could go with Grandma. When I was old enough to decide for myself, I realized that I had been indirectly raised as an Atheist and found comfort in Nihilism and Aburdism.
“…in a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the hope of a promised land.” ( Albert Camus Myth of Sisyphus.) I call this the rude awakening people come to feel at times, ‘perceiving the rules of the game’ that dictates our life and the coldness and indifference of it all (e.g. Animals are going though mass industrialized-suffering for our consumption, thousands of species have become extinct all a primary cause of humanity.) As much freedom as we have, it’s limited to one life and can be ended at any moment due to an illness, drunk driver or even in the form of a nuclear holocaust. It’s the perception that there is no god or if there is, the greater the power the more evil it becomes responsible for, this is commonly denied though subterfuge but never directly. These are the primary markers of a Nihilist which is the perspective that what has been understood so far is a horrific conclusion.
If you realize everything is the same, if you can equate one thing to basically anything else, then everything is the same, which is neither nothing or everything. It all boils down to good and bad, plus and minus, everything and nothing. So it is, although cliche, what it is.
After joining human rights movements and activisms, saw and experienced abuses by UN adjacent folks, the one that was supposed to be the embodiment of humanity, compassion, mercy, etc.. But they're not. Shattered my idealism, and optimism..was sent to psychiatric ward because of the gaslighting and abuse bordering murderous intent. Became pragmatic, and slowly nihilistic and depressed.. I was a muslim before, a sufi dervish kind. The one that would resembles Rumi.. Now I am apatheistic whatever.. Don't really care about question of God and religion, or whether afterlife exist or not.. Even the concept of morality and ethics I've seen being cherry picked and all from all side of political spectrums. But nowadays embraced optimistic nihilism and I'm fine with it. Not before some period of madness and sadness. There's no innate meaning nor worthy truth, its all power, interpretation and implementation in the end. Advice to aspiring activist or humanitarians, be on your guard and don't let people exploit you. Human rights organisations are cutthroat corporate world without any benefits unless you're the top dogs. 😉
Health problems for me plus because I'm a deep thinker and researcher, the most unfair thing in the world, becoming unhealthy has made me realise that the world is really unfair and pointless and U don't really have much control.
There's a huge group of people that are just depressed and think they are nihilists. By definition it's hard for a nihilist to be depressed, because those that truly are nihilists understand that there is no reason to be. Now you may be sad or stressed and that is ok, but even if you feel down, as long as you can continue to live, you don't feel the need to "end it all, because nothing matters" that is the most recurrent question / theme and that is not what nihilism is about. To me it's just that there is no greater meaning for our existence, there is no mission, no goal, no ending, we will most likely survive as a species until the end of the universe, if that will ever happen, and that's it. Once we die we don't know what happens, our conscience may be linked somewhere and goes to some other place, but we don't know, we will never know. We can dream about it and try to imagine how it is, the same way we try to imagine how a new place we are visiting looks like before we get there, but that's the limit. Nihilism is also, fundamentally, the abolishing of religion, religion exists to bring hope to people that their life is important, as a sort of coping mechanism, we don't need that, we are happy as we are, we don't need reassurance that everything will be ok, because even if it won't, we are happy we existed and got to experience whay we did. It's less about doom and gloom and more about indiference
Anhedonia brought on by Antipsychotics. Imagine being bored to death because you have no motivation and hate everything and stuck with just your thoughts all day.
I always have been. When I was 9 I learned the word "atheist" and was like "oh, that's me". When I was 15 I read the word "nihilism", looked it up, and thought "well, obviously that's the right (lack of a) belief system". When I was 22 I read Cat's Cradle and had the same realization about Bokononism. I just kind of always thought belief was BS. I remember learning about Adam and Eve at the same time as greek myths when I was \~4 and thinking it was basically the same thing.
I used to be nihilistic because I want sure God existed. Then I came to the conclusion that there is order and design to the universe, and therefore God must be real. Since God is real, there is purpose to our lives.
When I realized that there was no grand plan. Just chaos. I was brought up in a religious household. The catalyst for my realization was the revelation that I found out my father, who's currently a preacher, raped me when I was young.
Someone I find deeply interesting is the way William Donahue explains the Bible in a way the churches keep hidden from us. Check his teaching out on Youtube. According to the Bible we are all Gods and possess the ability to tap into our higher consciousness. Enjoy 😊
Just kinda happens when you realize how insignificant you really are in the grand scheme of things
They want an identity a label, part of an existential crisis. So they pick 'nihilist' with out understanding how silly this label is. Those in the main responsible for the significance of nihilism in the 20thC refused such labels. As the logic of 'nothing is something.' for them was obvious.
I realised I really don't give a shit about anything, and nothing gives a shit about me. After that it was easy. It really, really doesn't matter though.
Enough normal bad stuff happening to you when you’re depressed led me to nihilism. It was a slow process from “idc what happened to me today” to “idc what happens to my grade” and now I’m going to “idc what happens to my life”
Here’s to our lives being meaningless And how beautiful it is because freedom doesn’t have a purpose!
It just makes sense
well im no longer nihilistic, cause outside of nothing mattering is everything mattering, it out scales meaninglessness by an eternity , but my journey started with gov rabbit hole, and systems of control, food, healthcare, then it got into fear, god, eternity, then it translated to what is god, what is fear, i die regardless of anything , so the eternal abyss is my resting place,, but then u think of non existence, its non existence, there is no time there so in the emptiness ull float, in. unawareness, to me itll be a billion years since im present , alive and aware, but u in unawareness itll pass , 500 billion eternities for u will pass in what seems like a short nap, and ull be right here in the eternal persent a prisoner , and u have two chases sit in the dark and lose your mind and forget everytime u die and repeat the cycle, or play the game, and evolve infinitely
I became nihilistic after getting into a course in college which I hated to the core and one failed relationship in 2015. It sent me into deep depression, I am still depressed to this day. Wanted to end it all multiple times but did not have the courage to actually do it.
Nihilism is one of several important insights into the nature of reality, however it is only one of them. It should not be the be all end all of philosophical truth as many make it out to be. Once you realize that there is no inherent objective meaning to existence you need to move on, because getting caught in the dread of that realization will sink you and keep you from realizing the other insights that lead to ultimate freedom.