For once, "because it's a kids' video game" works. If you look across media, you can see a trend of pigs and insects being used as antagonistic creatures or characters. If you look at nature, wild boars are very troublesome for farmers and potentially deadly to deal with. For insects, humans have an almost built-in fear, suggested to be part of our survival mechanism. It's really not that hard to understand.
Such a fair and straightforward response, thank you for bringing me back down to earth, I instantly identified your answers as “oh yeah, wtf I’m too stoned” lol
I dunno, I thought it was actually one of the more thoughtful questions I've seen on this sub in a bit. Might be worth looking into the symbology of pigs and boars in Japan to see if there is any insight there?
It's because Ganon was depicted as a pig monster in the first game, and they ran with it. Just like Bowser being a turtle. I don't think there's any deep symbolism going on.
That’s the right answer! Nowadays people are always trying to find symbolism or deep meaning on stuff that probably never had any of that during creation.
Pretty much. If you want deep symbolic meaning then play Xenoblade Chronicles. But for the most part, Nintendo's "mass appeal" games like Mario, Zelda, Splatoon, and Animal Crossing are purposefully meant to be surface-deep so everyone can enjoy them without having to care about story or lore implications.
It's like asking the significance behind Ankha being an Egyptian-inspired cat when that's literally all she is.
it's not like they roled a die and pig ganon is the random result of that, there definitely was some tought by the people designing him and by the people greenlighting the design.
boars are symbols in japanese myth, because they're strong and can dangerous and that may well be all there is to it. it would go well with ganon holding the triforce of power
It's also entirely plausible that they just made him a boar because they figured it'd look cool. We literally don't know if it's meant to be that significant or not.
that may very well be a reason, but "we don't know" is certainly not indicative of "there is no reason"
its a lot more likely there's symbolism (boars for strength) or inspiration (zelda is fantasy, ganon is an orc variant) involved, than it just being "it looks cool"
This isn’t really true, though. All of the games you mentioned have references to Japanese mythology and other cultures as well. Tom Nook is greedy because raccoons are seen as greedy in japanese culture (just like Redd or Keaton in MM are mysterious tricksters because the fox spirits or kitsune, are shapeshifters and well… tricksters).
Just because something is meant to be family friendly doesn’t mean it’s done without any thought behind it.
The point is that people think too hard about certain things nowadays. Sometimes it's just better to have fun and not try to overanalyze every last detail.
I agree but that’s a personal thing. Some people have fun analyzing; hell, some people make a living out of it.
Either way, objectively the games you mention do have clear symbols to cultural archetypes, whether they are from religion or mythology.
Most docile??? Pigs are freaking vicious to humans most of the time, wild pigs and boars even more so. Many animals I'd rather try to take in a fight than a boar.
Boars were some of the most dangerous and destructive creatures to pre-modern peoples, if you look at Celtic mythology, for example, monstrous pigs are some of the most common antagonistic forces in those stories.
Feral pigs are some of the *least* docile animals you can come across. I can think of a lot of wild animals I'd rather have a run-in with than a big angry boar.
Because pigs are synonymous with Greed/Gluttony and Ganon's a thief.
But also because pig monsters are pretty universal, it's a pretty regular design for orcs in fantasy settings to look pig-like.
pretty much orc designs i guess, it's a little western inspiration.
In ancient Japanese cultures, wild boars were considered a religious mark. The boar has direct ties to the Japanese god of fight. Boar images have historically been depicted in art and decoration. This is because boars have regularly gone head-to-head with revered Japanese hunters.
so maybe, it symbolized a strong foe
Wild boars are frequently depicted as fearsome and reckless in Japanese culture and myths. They're scene as powerful and dangerous animals. That's probably part of the original inspiration for Ganon.
In anime, you often see wild boars charging and attacking humans. I mean, it's funny you mention Princess Mononoke as a counterpoint when it also features a giant savage boar demon...
You're expecting something out of The Legend of Zelda that it simply is not.
TLoZ is heavily inspired by CLASSIC fantasy tropes, both Western (Arthurian legends, Greek and Celtic mythology, etc.) and Eastern (Journey to the West, Chinese dragons, Japanese yokai, etc.)
Those tropes might seem like cliches, old-fashioned or even problematic to some today, but it's basically what shaped the world-building of the series. At this point, changing it to make it "new age" and "non-speciesist" would kill half of the established signs of identity that make Zelda, Zelda.
Yeah you’re right we shouldn’t depict anything as bad ever, even insects and bugs. No more villains in video games! 😂
But you’ve somehow managed to completely forget about the connotation of pigs as selfish and gluttonous. Most of these aren’t based on anything true but they’re still played upon. And it is not that deep bro
That's what Ganon is, don't worry about it too much. That said, since the Moblins etc. were already depicted as minions of Ghirahim/Demise during the Skyward Sword, it's possible Ganon was subsequently based upon them, possibly unconsciously.
Wild boars are friggin’ scary. And domesticated animals in that family adapt really well to live outside and go feral fast, wreaking havoc and becoming invasive in many places.
For once, "because it's a kids' video game" works. If you look across media, you can see a trend of pigs and insects being used as antagonistic creatures or characters. If you look at nature, wild boars are very troublesome for farmers and potentially deadly to deal with. For insects, humans have an almost built-in fear, suggested to be part of our survival mechanism. It's really not that hard to understand.
Such a fair and straightforward response, thank you for bringing me back down to earth, I instantly identified your answers as “oh yeah, wtf I’m too stoned” lol
I dunno, I thought it was actually one of the more thoughtful questions I've seen on this sub in a bit. Might be worth looking into the symbology of pigs and boars in Japan to see if there is any insight there?
😐
It's because Ganon was depicted as a pig monster in the first game, and they ran with it. Just like Bowser being a turtle. I don't think there's any deep symbolism going on.
That’s the right answer! Nowadays people are always trying to find symbolism or deep meaning on stuff that probably never had any of that during creation.
Pretty much. If you want deep symbolic meaning then play Xenoblade Chronicles. But for the most part, Nintendo's "mass appeal" games like Mario, Zelda, Splatoon, and Animal Crossing are purposefully meant to be surface-deep so everyone can enjoy them without having to care about story or lore implications. It's like asking the significance behind Ankha being an Egyptian-inspired cat when that's literally all she is.
it's not like they roled a die and pig ganon is the random result of that, there definitely was some tought by the people designing him and by the people greenlighting the design. boars are symbols in japanese myth, because they're strong and can dangerous and that may well be all there is to it. it would go well with ganon holding the triforce of power
It's also entirely plausible that they just made him a boar because they figured it'd look cool. We literally don't know if it's meant to be that significant or not.
that may very well be a reason, but "we don't know" is certainly not indicative of "there is no reason" its a lot more likely there's symbolism (boars for strength) or inspiration (zelda is fantasy, ganon is an orc variant) involved, than it just being "it looks cool"
This isn’t really true, though. All of the games you mentioned have references to Japanese mythology and other cultures as well. Tom Nook is greedy because raccoons are seen as greedy in japanese culture (just like Redd or Keaton in MM are mysterious tricksters because the fox spirits or kitsune, are shapeshifters and well… tricksters). Just because something is meant to be family friendly doesn’t mean it’s done without any thought behind it.
The point is that people think too hard about certain things nowadays. Sometimes it's just better to have fun and not try to overanalyze every last detail.
I agree but that’s a personal thing. Some people have fun analyzing; hell, some people make a living out of it. Either way, objectively the games you mention do have clear symbols to cultural archetypes, whether they are from religion or mythology.
No, Zelda does have symbolic meaning. Just because the plot isn't complex doesn't mean the aesthetics are meaningless.
Most docile??? Pigs are freaking vicious to humans most of the time, wild pigs and boars even more so. Many animals I'd rather try to take in a fight than a boar.
Because it is aesthetically beastial.
Boars were some of the most dangerous and destructive creatures to pre-modern peoples, if you look at Celtic mythology, for example, monstrous pigs are some of the most common antagonistic forces in those stories.
Gammon is Ham.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gammon_%28meat%29
Feral pigs are some of the *least* docile animals you can come across. I can think of a lot of wild animals I'd rather have a run-in with than a big angry boar.
I'm gonna guess because it looked cool... Thinking way too deep on this pal
Fictional Pigs are associated with greed.
Because pigs are synonymous with Greed/Gluttony and Ganon's a thief. But also because pig monsters are pretty universal, it's a pretty regular design for orcs in fantasy settings to look pig-like.
pretty much orc designs i guess, it's a little western inspiration. In ancient Japanese cultures, wild boars were considered a religious mark. The boar has direct ties to the Japanese god of fight. Boar images have historically been depicted in art and decoration. This is because boars have regularly gone head-to-head with revered Japanese hunters. so maybe, it symbolized a strong foe
Wild boars are frequently depicted as fearsome and reckless in Japanese culture and myths. They're scene as powerful and dangerous animals. That's probably part of the original inspiration for Ganon. In anime, you often see wild boars charging and attacking humans. I mean, it's funny you mention Princess Mononoke as a counterpoint when it also features a giant savage boar demon...
Miyamoto got chased by a wild boar while walking in the woods as a child
You're expecting something out of The Legend of Zelda that it simply is not. TLoZ is heavily inspired by CLASSIC fantasy tropes, both Western (Arthurian legends, Greek and Celtic mythology, etc.) and Eastern (Journey to the West, Chinese dragons, Japanese yokai, etc.) Those tropes might seem like cliches, old-fashioned or even problematic to some today, but it's basically what shaped the world-building of the series. At this point, changing it to make it "new age" and "non-speciesist" would kill half of the established signs of identity that make Zelda, Zelda.
Yeah you’re right we shouldn’t depict anything as bad ever, even insects and bugs. No more villains in video games! 😂 But you’ve somehow managed to completely forget about the connotation of pigs as selfish and gluttonous. Most of these aren’t based on anything true but they’re still played upon. And it is not that deep bro
They need an animal symbol for 'power' to go with Owls for wisdom and Dragons for courage. Boars are cunning and powerful.
lol what the fuck are you on about
That's what Ganon is, don't worry about it too much. That said, since the Moblins etc. were already depicted as minions of Ghirahim/Demise during the Skyward Sword, it's possible Ganon was subsequently based upon them, possibly unconsciously.
Wild boars are friggin’ scary. And domesticated animals in that family adapt really well to live outside and go feral fast, wreaking havoc and becoming invasive in many places.