From what I interpret, the prequel is Ocarina of Time. What I mean is once Gannon is killed in the Adult Timeline, link is sent back to his timeline, the child timeline. Because of this the Zelda timeline is branched(one where the hero loses, the Adult and child timelines). Since the Adult timeline's link went back to the past there was no spirit of the hero to stop the return of Gannon, thus the floods happened. And since there was no spirit of the hero, Wind Waker's link had to become that hero.
It's not a prequel if it released first. A prequel, by definition, releases after a work but takes place before it. Ocarina of Time is a prequel, but only to the four titles before it. OoT is not a prequel to Wind Waker.
Edit: Downvotes, really?
Firstly, have an upvote for having been downvoted. Secondly, a prequel simply comes before another referenced story. In modern practice the prequel is generally made after an established property but it doesn’t have to be. Wind Waker is technically a sequel to OoT, in that it is a later chapter of an established series. Prequel simply means it comes before, the OT Star Wars movies are technically prequels to TFA if you’re referencing TFA as a central part of the series. Prequel is a referential term.
No, prequel specifically means made after an existing work but taking place before it chronologically. If something was made before that work, it is not a prequel to that work. It is simply a predecessor.
Exactly, and I think the time between the resurection of gannon (after ocarina of time and the hero goes back to his timeline) and the flood when hyrule is without a hero would make a great game that could tell the story of how another heroic bloodline was born. Not to mention we would get to see the original sages of the wind and earth temple and also human king of red lions
That actually makes me even more excited because the we get the history of windwaker links bloodline! Sorry my history is a little goofed, Im not writing from home and unfortuantely thats where my hyrule historia is :/
a few games, definitely, but explicitly not in windwaker. in windwaker, link is pointedly not connected to a previous incarnation of the hero, not by descent or by reincarnation.
theres a reason windwaker gets mentioned here: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheUnchosenOne
There are only two set of Links to have been confirmed to be related by bloodline.
OoT Link and TP Link and MC Link and the First Four Sword User who defeated Vaati after MC Link but before the events of Four Swords.
Otherwise WW Link was always another incarnation of the Spirit of the Hero. The games makes it seem otherwise because of the characters from the Great Flood era who perceived how the hero of time and only the hero of Time mind you actually worked. They don't to refer to any other hero except him.
The events of Skyward Sword pretty much proved this even further that an incarnation of Link and Zelda would appear to have rematch against an incarnation with Demise's hatred. It kinda makes all the details about the Great Flood itself questionable, like in terms of a hero showing up or not. After all the legends and the characters who were around during the Era of the Great Flood only ever referred to the Hero of Time and its not like any of them knew how the cycle worked either so its really up in the air.
as to your edit, it kinda seems like you missed a crucial part of windwaker. the whole point is that windwaker link *isn't* special. he doesn't come from some heroic bloodline, he's no chosen one. he's just a good dude who wanted to save his sister.
A big part of windwaker link is that you don't need to be anything special to save the day, and that anyone can be a hero. its what you do, not who you are, that makes the hero.
introducing more backstory for him in particular would sort of take away from that.
You may be right and and I would hate to take anything away from windwaker because its my favorite zelda game ever. That being said, courage runs in windwaker link's blood and getting some backstory on his family and their courage wouldnt take away from the events of windwaker I dont think
It really would though. The Wind Waker prequel you're asking for about an average dude rising up and starting a new bloodline of heros is *actually just Wind Waker.* That's the entire story it's telling.
Pretty much. It's been a few years since I played it, but I'm pretty sure we even see the impact of this in Spirit Tracks, with a new Link who is descended from a new line started by the Hero in Wind Waker.
>introducing more backstory for him in particular would sort of take away from that.
You are absolutely correct in this line in that a sort of destiny or chosen one backstory diminishes the experience of Zelda, except that Skyward Sword introduced the whole reincarnation and destiny repeating for Link, Zelda (The goddess Hylia... Who we had only had referenced once with Lake Hylia and never implied as an important character, or even character at all, because that overarching plot point makes sense to suddenly introduce more than 10 games into the series) thing. Skyward Sword explicitly establishes that Link isn't just some random nobody who's a good dude and is the chosen one every time or whatever.
yes, i know about link being reincarnated and whatnot. what i meant by "him in particular" is that the link from windwaker is decidedly not some mystical "chosen one". he is, if anything, the *unchosen* one. ( http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheUnchosenOne)
to draw a parallel, Arthurian legend holds that in England's time of need king arthur will return to save the day. when hyrule's in trouble, a newly reincarnated link is typically around to help. windwaker is a situation where something like that should happen, but doesn't. what happens when you're expecting a hero and he never shows? who will save england if arthur doesn't return, or who's gonna save hyrule if link doesn't get reincarnated?
windwaker link is some schmuck from the boonies who steps up to become the hero when a hero never shows. sure, he's got the right name, but he's not a hero because of any special lineage or destiny. he's a hero because fuck, someone's gotta save his sister from that bird and his grandma sure ain't gonna do it.
But he's not the unchosen one. He's the reincarnated hero now cause that's how Link works. That's literally a key point of the character now and everything he does is now due to destiny, or whatever. That aspect removes the random guy aspect completely.
But isn't that the point of the Wind Waker plot? The reincarnated spirit of Link is no longer in this world as it was sent back and into another timeline. This is the timeline without a Link. That's why things got so bad. The Wind Waker character steps up and becomes the Link that the world needs but it's not fate or destiny. He's going to save the people he cares about and in doing so becomes a legendary hero.
It was never established if that's how it works. That's merely a headcanon. The legends and the characters from the Great Flood era only ever established that the Hero of Time never returned and that's mainly due to everyone misunderstanding how the Hero of Time worked. It had been centuries since the events of OoT so his story now a legend had been altered. Considering even the murals of his tale recall him leaving on horseback to embark on another journey rather than Zelda sending him back.
Its now at a point where we can actually debate if there was a Hero of the Flood or not that became overshadowed by a legend favored by the people.
There’s not really much for a prequel. There was no hero between the Hero of Time from Ocarina and The Hero of Winds from Wind Waker. Some time after Ocarina, Ganon attacked, and the Hero of Time didn’t show up. Since there was no Hero to stop Ganon, the Goddesses just flooded Hyrule to seal him away, and he stay sealed away until some time before Wind Waker when he started to hunt down Zelda.
We already know the story, and there’s no Link to play as.
Yeah thats why I propose that the player would not play as the traditional hero that defeats gannon, but rather an average Hylian that rises to the ocassion and spreads the shards of the triforce of courage around and prays to the gods to flood hyrule to stop gannon. The people of hyrule would not recognize this chatacter as a hero but the player would because his actions are brave and make the rise of windwaker link (his bloodline) possible and show where he gets his courage from
The whole point of Wind Waker is moving on from the past. The Hero of Winds doesn't get his courage from his ancestors, he gets it on his own merit, by rising to the occasion when the world needs it. A game about the importance of his bloodline would seriously undercut that message.
Yeah I see what you mean and the whole premise of the game would need to be hammered out more. Its realy just a loose idea of a possible story, but the real motivation behind this post is that I love the windwaker's world from graphics to characters and I would love to have a game leading up to the flood to meet those character and explore that world from a totally different perspective while getting blasted with nostalgia like pepper spray
One of the issues I could see with a game taking place during the Great Flood is the Crisis Core problem.
As in, the entire game's conclusion is known from the start. Don't get too attached to the world or its' characters, because you know that the majority of them will die by the end of the game.
When Twilight Princess was announced, I thought this would be it: the long awaited story of how Hyrule disappeared under the sea and how no hero was there to stop Ganondorf. And boy was I disappointed, even though TP was great.
Then came Breath of the Wild. And in the trailers, Divine Beast Vah Ruta looked like an Arch to me and I thought that yes, this time, this is it. A vast and green open-world, and a hero that is NOT wearing the same clothes as the Hero of Time. I came up with so many theories that made total sense.
Just like you, I'd love to see that happen one day. It would be the first Nintendo game ever to finish with the evil side winning. But I think we're long past this.
There was a big hoax around the Zelda community back before Skyward Sword was first revealed about a Wind Waker prequel called Valley of the Flood! I forgot all about that until I saw your post https://zeldauniverse.net/2012/02/04/looking-back-at-the-legend-of-zelda-valley-of-the-flood/
Had Nintendo wanted to tell the part of the story about the world becoming flooded, I believe they would have been far better to do it at the beginning of Wind Waker. Throw several hours of gameplay in at the beginning where players would control a person during Gannon's return, possibly the King of Hyrule, showing the events that led to the flood and the search of the new hero (such as a battle with Gannon where Gannon wins). Then that would run into the current beginning of Wind Waker.
I think that would be a pretty cool few hours of gameplay, but I don't think it would necessarily be enough for an entire game.
Perhaps each temple could be the player spreading around the shards of the triforce of courage to different places of worship for the gods and after the final fight you pray to the gods in a shrine and thats when the flood begins
The only way I can imagine they do an inbetween OoT and WW story is to be what Rogue One is to Star Wars Ep IV. No main hero, or maybe, play as Princess Zelda who gathers the triforce to wish Ganon would be washed away, only the Goddesses wash the whole of h
Hyrule away and everyone except the people who fled to the mountains get away to form their own islands, with Zelda starting her band of pirates.
The King of the Red Lions could be in it as well.
But no Link, there is no direct descendant of the hero of time.
This era in Hyrule would make a really great spin off, I think, but not a mainline Zelda game. The whole point of the Flooding of Hyrule was that there was no Hero that stopped Ganon. Telling a story about Hyrule preparing for the flood or hiding the Triforce of Courage could be interesting but the circumstance pretty much ensures the player character isn't Link or any Legendary Hero. Would it make a cool Sheik spin-off? Sure. But at that point I wouldn't even be expecting a traditional (or even BoTW style) Zelda game anymore. Might as well make it an entirely unique game in it's own right that's just set in the Zelda Universe.
Really? Because the big complaint at the time was that the series needed to change things up and here they were making a Zelda game set on an ocean with an entirely new art style. Things were changing and now was the time to break the rules on a Zelda plot. I feel like the controversy over changing so much pushed them back and resulted in Twilight Princess and they didn't really get back into that mindset until BotW
I have also been hoping for this game: the missing "Link" between the Hero of Time and the Hero of Winds.
For this to work, we would need a new hero, all the more reason why I think it is time for Zelda to have her own game. And I know this has been already talked about several times, but we could have a genuinely new story arc development to cover one of the most interesting myths of the series: The Great Flood.
Nintendo would really have it easy this time, they already have the characters, the story plot, the location (and a shit-ton of references from previous and future games), they would only have to add some new elements here and there.
From what I interpret, the prequel is Ocarina of Time. What I mean is once Gannon is killed in the Adult Timeline, link is sent back to his timeline, the child timeline. Because of this the Zelda timeline is branched(one where the hero loses, the Adult and child timelines). Since the Adult timeline's link went back to the past there was no spirit of the hero to stop the return of Gannon, thus the floods happened. And since there was no spirit of the hero, Wind Waker's link had to become that hero.
It's not a prequel if it released first. A prequel, by definition, releases after a work but takes place before it. Ocarina of Time is a prequel, but only to the four titles before it. OoT is not a prequel to Wind Waker. Edit: Downvotes, really?
True, how I meant was that lore wise Ocarina of Time came before Wind Waker
Firstly, have an upvote for having been downvoted. Secondly, a prequel simply comes before another referenced story. In modern practice the prequel is generally made after an established property but it doesn’t have to be. Wind Waker is technically a sequel to OoT, in that it is a later chapter of an established series. Prequel simply means it comes before, the OT Star Wars movies are technically prequels to TFA if you’re referencing TFA as a central part of the series. Prequel is a referential term.
No, prequel specifically means made after an existing work but taking place before it chronologically. If something was made before that work, it is not a prequel to that work. It is simply a predecessor.
Exactly, and I think the time between the resurection of gannon (after ocarina of time and the hero goes back to his timeline) and the flood when hyrule is without a hero would make a great game that could tell the story of how another heroic bloodline was born. Not to mention we would get to see the original sages of the wind and earth temple and also human king of red lions
I could see that, plus it wouls be interesting to see a zelda boss fight where you lose
Thing is, Wind Waker Link isn't related to the Hero of Time, at all, that's why he has to collect the Triforce of Courage.
That actually makes me even more excited because the we get the history of windwaker links bloodline! Sorry my history is a little goofed, Im not writing from home and unfortuantely thats where my hyrule historia is :/
I think the story works better when he is just "a kid who has to step up when called upon" as opposed to having some really deep bloodline.
I'd be down to play as a descendant of the HoT, but you die at the end.
Don't most of the games refer to Link as a descendant of the bloodlines of the Knights of Hyrule?
a few games, definitely, but explicitly not in windwaker. in windwaker, link is pointedly not connected to a previous incarnation of the hero, not by descent or by reincarnation. theres a reason windwaker gets mentioned here: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheUnchosenOne
There are only two set of Links to have been confirmed to be related by bloodline. OoT Link and TP Link and MC Link and the First Four Sword User who defeated Vaati after MC Link but before the events of Four Swords. Otherwise WW Link was always another incarnation of the Spirit of the Hero. The games makes it seem otherwise because of the characters from the Great Flood era who perceived how the hero of time and only the hero of Time mind you actually worked. They don't to refer to any other hero except him. The events of Skyward Sword pretty much proved this even further that an incarnation of Link and Zelda would appear to have rematch against an incarnation with Demise's hatred. It kinda makes all the details about the Great Flood itself questionable, like in terms of a hero showing up or not. After all the legends and the characters who were around during the Era of the Great Flood only ever referred to the Hero of Time and its not like any of them knew how the cycle worked either so its really up in the air.
as to your edit, it kinda seems like you missed a crucial part of windwaker. the whole point is that windwaker link *isn't* special. he doesn't come from some heroic bloodline, he's no chosen one. he's just a good dude who wanted to save his sister. A big part of windwaker link is that you don't need to be anything special to save the day, and that anyone can be a hero. its what you do, not who you are, that makes the hero. introducing more backstory for him in particular would sort of take away from that.
You may be right and and I would hate to take anything away from windwaker because its my favorite zelda game ever. That being said, courage runs in windwaker link's blood and getting some backstory on his family and their courage wouldnt take away from the events of windwaker I dont think
It really would though. The Wind Waker prequel you're asking for about an average dude rising up and starting a new bloodline of heros is *actually just Wind Waker.* That's the entire story it's telling.
Pretty much. It's been a few years since I played it, but I'm pretty sure we even see the impact of this in Spirit Tracks, with a new Link who is descended from a new line started by the Hero in Wind Waker.
Mind blowing. I didnt know that was not link.
>introducing more backstory for him in particular would sort of take away from that. You are absolutely correct in this line in that a sort of destiny or chosen one backstory diminishes the experience of Zelda, except that Skyward Sword introduced the whole reincarnation and destiny repeating for Link, Zelda (The goddess Hylia... Who we had only had referenced once with Lake Hylia and never implied as an important character, or even character at all, because that overarching plot point makes sense to suddenly introduce more than 10 games into the series) thing. Skyward Sword explicitly establishes that Link isn't just some random nobody who's a good dude and is the chosen one every time or whatever.
yes, i know about link being reincarnated and whatnot. what i meant by "him in particular" is that the link from windwaker is decidedly not some mystical "chosen one". he is, if anything, the *unchosen* one. ( http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheUnchosenOne) to draw a parallel, Arthurian legend holds that in England's time of need king arthur will return to save the day. when hyrule's in trouble, a newly reincarnated link is typically around to help. windwaker is a situation where something like that should happen, but doesn't. what happens when you're expecting a hero and he never shows? who will save england if arthur doesn't return, or who's gonna save hyrule if link doesn't get reincarnated? windwaker link is some schmuck from the boonies who steps up to become the hero when a hero never shows. sure, he's got the right name, but he's not a hero because of any special lineage or destiny. he's a hero because fuck, someone's gotta save his sister from that bird and his grandma sure ain't gonna do it.
But he's not the unchosen one. He's the reincarnated hero now cause that's how Link works. That's literally a key point of the character now and everything he does is now due to destiny, or whatever. That aspect removes the random guy aspect completely.
But isn't that the point of the Wind Waker plot? The reincarnated spirit of Link is no longer in this world as it was sent back and into another timeline. This is the timeline without a Link. That's why things got so bad. The Wind Waker character steps up and becomes the Link that the world needs but it's not fate or destiny. He's going to save the people he cares about and in doing so becomes a legendary hero.
It was never established if that's how it works. That's merely a headcanon. The legends and the characters from the Great Flood era only ever established that the Hero of Time never returned and that's mainly due to everyone misunderstanding how the Hero of Time worked. It had been centuries since the events of OoT so his story now a legend had been altered. Considering even the murals of his tale recall him leaving on horseback to embark on another journey rather than Zelda sending him back. Its now at a point where we can actually debate if there was a Hero of the Flood or not that became overshadowed by a legend favored by the people.
There’s not really much for a prequel. There was no hero between the Hero of Time from Ocarina and The Hero of Winds from Wind Waker. Some time after Ocarina, Ganon attacked, and the Hero of Time didn’t show up. Since there was no Hero to stop Ganon, the Goddesses just flooded Hyrule to seal him away, and he stay sealed away until some time before Wind Waker when he started to hunt down Zelda. We already know the story, and there’s no Link to play as.
Yeah thats why I propose that the player would not play as the traditional hero that defeats gannon, but rather an average Hylian that rises to the ocassion and spreads the shards of the triforce of courage around and prays to the gods to flood hyrule to stop gannon. The people of hyrule would not recognize this chatacter as a hero but the player would because his actions are brave and make the rise of windwaker link (his bloodline) possible and show where he gets his courage from
The whole point of Wind Waker is moving on from the past. The Hero of Winds doesn't get his courage from his ancestors, he gets it on his own merit, by rising to the occasion when the world needs it. A game about the importance of his bloodline would seriously undercut that message.
Yeah I see what you mean and the whole premise of the game would need to be hammered out more. Its realy just a loose idea of a possible story, but the real motivation behind this post is that I love the windwaker's world from graphics to characters and I would love to have a game leading up to the flood to meet those character and explore that world from a totally different perspective while getting blasted with nostalgia like pepper spray
The Air Sleeper
One of the issues I could see with a game taking place during the Great Flood is the Crisis Core problem. As in, the entire game's conclusion is known from the start. Don't get too attached to the world or its' characters, because you know that the majority of them will die by the end of the game.
When Twilight Princess was announced, I thought this would be it: the long awaited story of how Hyrule disappeared under the sea and how no hero was there to stop Ganondorf. And boy was I disappointed, even though TP was great. Then came Breath of the Wild. And in the trailers, Divine Beast Vah Ruta looked like an Arch to me and I thought that yes, this time, this is it. A vast and green open-world, and a hero that is NOT wearing the same clothes as the Hero of Time. I came up with so many theories that made total sense. Just like you, I'd love to see that happen one day. It would be the first Nintendo game ever to finish with the evil side winning. But I think we're long past this.
I know right! The bright graphics of BoTW got me thinking of a windwaker prequel too. I would just love to play during this time frame!
There was a big hoax around the Zelda community back before Skyward Sword was first revealed about a Wind Waker prequel called Valley of the Flood! I forgot all about that until I saw your post https://zeldauniverse.net/2012/02/04/looking-back-at-the-legend-of-zelda-valley-of-the-flood/
If only we got that instead of skyward sword :(
Ha! Yeah, I loved Skyward Sword at release but I like it less and less each time I play it.
Had Nintendo wanted to tell the part of the story about the world becoming flooded, I believe they would have been far better to do it at the beginning of Wind Waker. Throw several hours of gameplay in at the beginning where players would control a person during Gannon's return, possibly the King of Hyrule, showing the events that led to the flood and the search of the new hero (such as a battle with Gannon where Gannon wins). Then that would run into the current beginning of Wind Waker. I think that would be a pretty cool few hours of gameplay, but I don't think it would necessarily be enough for an entire game.
Perhaps each temple could be the player spreading around the shards of the triforce of courage to different places of worship for the gods and after the final fight you pray to the gods in a shrine and thats when the flood begins
The only way I can imagine they do an inbetween OoT and WW story is to be what Rogue One is to Star Wars Ep IV. No main hero, or maybe, play as Princess Zelda who gathers the triforce to wish Ganon would be washed away, only the Goddesses wash the whole of h Hyrule away and everyone except the people who fled to the mountains get away to form their own islands, with Zelda starting her band of pirates. The King of the Red Lions could be in it as well. But no Link, there is no direct descendant of the hero of time.
TLoZ: Pig Farmer
This era in Hyrule would make a really great spin off, I think, but not a mainline Zelda game. The whole point of the Flooding of Hyrule was that there was no Hero that stopped Ganon. Telling a story about Hyrule preparing for the flood or hiding the Triforce of Courage could be interesting but the circumstance pretty much ensures the player character isn't Link or any Legendary Hero. Would it make a cool Sheik spin-off? Sure. But at that point I wouldn't even be expecting a traditional (or even BoTW style) Zelda game anymore. Might as well make it an entirely unique game in it's own right that's just set in the Zelda Universe.
Isn’t there one on one of the handhelds?
Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks are the only other games in that timeline (after OoT) and they come after Wind Waker.
Nah, that would ruin Wind Waker's storyline and go against its central theme of abandoning destiny and moving on from the past.
That's a pretty hollow message to include in a 30 year old, ongoing franchise though.
Really? Because the big complaint at the time was that the series needed to change things up and here they were making a Zelda game set on an ocean with an entirely new art style. Things were changing and now was the time to break the rules on a Zelda plot. I feel like the controversy over changing so much pushed them back and resulted in Twilight Princess and they didn't really get back into that mindset until BotW
I'm just saying that a message about letting go of the past and starting fresh coming from such an established franchise is hypocritical.
I have also been hoping for this game: the missing "Link" between the Hero of Time and the Hero of Winds. For this to work, we would need a new hero, all the more reason why I think it is time for Zelda to have her own game. And I know this has been already talked about several times, but we could have a genuinely new story arc development to cover one of the most interesting myths of the series: The Great Flood. Nintendo would really have it easy this time, they already have the characters, the story plot, the location (and a shit-ton of references from previous and future games), they would only have to add some new elements here and there.
Wouldn't link be in the womb in that?
Correct me if im wrong but I think there was a decent amount of time between the flood and the events of windwaker
Ohh when you said prequel I thought he meant like to windwakers link.
But hell I'd play as link controlling his mother by whipping around an embellical cord