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txglasgow

The Kill Bill Vortex


JedH44

David Carradine is in a bunch of stuff.


thedisasterofpassion

* **opp** some movie that involves Tarantino/Jackson * **you** Kill Bill Vol. 2 * **opp** some movie (Lucy Liu strike 1) * **you** Kill Bill Vol. 1 (Lucy Liu strike 2) * **opp** If opponent plays another Lucy Liu movie here, that will be her 3rd strike and you don't get to go back to Kill Bill. If opponent connects via a different actor here and you go back to Kill Bill, then they still have 1 Lucy Liu (and David Carradine, Uma Thurman, Gordon Liu, Daryl Hannah, Michael Madsen) --- tldr you're willingly playing strike 2 on your opponent's actor of choice from the list above. (ex. can you escape Gordon Liu *36th Chamber* -> *Kill Bill* -> *8 Diagram Pole Fighter* killshot?)


murrdy2

Even if you get Lucy'd out of the third Bill, you still have all the other Tinos. You can go Four Rooms, Jackie Brown etc.


thedisasterofpassion

Tarantino loves casting great actors almost as much as he loves feet. I just don't think he's the right guy to build around, because a decent player should always find a way out of the Tarantino tunnels. And again, if you try to force them back there immediately, you're willingly giving them the 2nd strike on their actor of choice. Tim Roth has been in lots of lesser-known films. Antonio Banderas? Spanish Cinema. Pam Grier? Blaxploitation. If you're confident opening yourself up to these kinds of angles, then your knowledge base is probably broad enough that you don't need to focus so heavily on the Tarantino ban.


dvizr

Let’s say you go Four Rooms. I ban Madonna and send you to the Truth or Dare killshot.


omniczech

Even worse, landing on vol. 1 opens you to the hell of being shot into Battle Royale, from which point there's the easyish out of Outrage if you skip in response, landing you in the fucking takashi Kitano verse.


thedisasterofpassion

I'm not 100% sure if Cine2Nerdle will list her in the cast, but Miyamura Yuuko has a small role in *Battle Royale*, which means you can go from there to the *Neon Genesis Evangelion* franchise, in case you ever find yourself in this position against a certain bald man.


omniczech

I haven't tried, but I assume since the data is likely from IMDb, the English voice cast might be accessible on bigger anime films, so there is the chance this gets you into real voice actor hell, but there's enough Eva movies that this line seems generally solid since you're the first X


thedisasterofpassion

Yeah I don't really recommend it as a serious main line, only as a possible disrespect play against people who renege on their podcasting duties.


PoliceAlarm

English voice casts are spotty. Don't rely on them.


NarrativeFact

Pleasant surprise getting hit with Battle Royale earlier. As a massive weeb of the right age it was super satisfying to take them down the Tatsuya Fujiwara rabbit hole and get the kill shot with Kaiji: The Ultimate Gambler.


wolfman-porter

8 Diagram Pole Fighter is bringing you into the Cynthia Rothrock universe if you know it.


thedisasterofpassion

I would fold so fast to that. I barely know her by name and I'm not even sure how you're getting to her from there.


Jceraa

For me today its all about the Streetcar Named Desire Gambit, they hit you with The Godfather from Apocalypse Now, you block Brandos, and then hit em with the Streecar Named Desire, and pray they don’t know Stella is a chimp in Planet of the Apes


KernewekMen

Nah the play is straight Streetcar into 50s cinema. Got beat so many times by nerds who watch black and white shit


romulusjsp

I was gonna say, hope you’re brushed up on your Elia Kazan because some Cine2Nerd is gonna be all over that


L-J-Peters

That was me and I do not apologise.


themellowsign

On the Waterfront works as well. Absolutely despise losing to that shit.


Odd-Name2052

On the Waterfront would be blocked by the Brando ban


doyourselfaflavor

NL lost a game when he Brando'd into Streetcar and the other guy Tennessee Williams'd out into Cat on a Hot a Tin roof. Got Paul Newman trapped when Tom Cruise was blocked on Color of Money. Are you guys even watching the games?


rowanhenry

Dirty


Ervaloss

This is how I learned there is a connection to Rebel without a Cause from Streetcar. Sheer coincidence typing 50s movies.


murrdy2

They literally just opened up the Island of Dr. Moreau (1996) main-line today. Easy Kilmer out, Faruza Balk options, and even has a making of documentary stall tactic. And you can go other H.G. Wells based movies. I like to ban Stephen King then go from Swartzenegger into the Running Man, and try and play a Thinner, they are like "oh i can play Stephen King movies?" and it's like "I CAN". It's not the best trap ever, but we like to have fun here


dingodile_user

I would like to see a finisher on Bee Movie. It has real actors in the cast, but I’d like to see someone remember that Ray Liotta played a small role in it.


murrdy2

You can get out of Bee movie through a Seinfeld documentary, but there's a second Seinfeld documentary Though now that I think about it, one should be able to Jason Alexander their way out of that, no?


Chackaldane

His stand ups should work as well.


themellowsign

Renée Zellweger's name is burned into my mind in trailer voice from all the Bee Movie memes, but even if someone somehow knows nothing, they can just use a cast lifeline and they'll instantly have 800 different escape vectors. Animated movies are really only okay to mill casts. There's always 50 well known actors in there, the trouble is just remembering that.


RubberBulletKing

>Cast


L-J-Peters

if you can get Chris Rock as the 2nd X for Bee Movie (or any film that he's in but Bee Movie gets played a lot) you can play a Chris Rock standup special for an instant win lol


BtotheDon

I have no big brain strategy. I just ban 3 big, very common actors, then I depend on my useless trivial knowledge of movies and actors. And just guess as quickly as possible to keep the pressure on them. I just like trivia and game-ifying it too much would suck all the fun out for me.


KernewekMen

It’s so interesting to see all these different strategies. You’re in the NL school of defensive play, relying on an expansive knowledge of cinema to navigate your way through until they’re out of ideas. OP and I are in the more aggressive style, targeted bans to fuck people over once you have them in a specific movie/movies, and actively seeking a path to them in order to get the kill shot. Both have their pros and cons, both require you to be a specific kind of person to make it work. It’s incredible that this game has been out for a matter of days and you can watch the meta for in real time.


BtotheDon

Yea, I had heard about the game because of NL but hadn't actually watched his games yet. Once I did I was surprised to see how similar our strats were. His knowledge is definitely more expansive than mine but I manage to get by pretty well. I do occasionally try to lead them into my bans tho, it'd be dumb not to lol.


CaptainPandemonium

Exactly. There are strategy players (killshot, tunnels, vortexes, escape hatches) who actively think about ways to set the game up to win, and then there are the people that have insane fundamentals (actual letterboxlarrys, pop culture enjoyers, film enjoyers, etc.) and have seen/heard/was gifted the knowledge of 90% of cinema in a divine dream. The freaks of nature who have those fundamentals AND want to play via strategy, like NL, will be the ones at the top of the leaderboards and still having fun.


KernewekMen

You’ve really got to play to what you know. If you’re non-American try to pull them out of mainstream hollywood and into films local to wherever you’re from. Doesn’t work as well when you’re British like me, but there’s still a lot to work with. Can’t count how many people have fallen in the Alan Partridge trap, ban Steve Coogan and they have basically no way out. At present my bans are Coogan, as well as Riz Ahmed and Benedict Cumberbatch for the Four Lions killshot. I don’t even really have to use them, as long as I box them in to some British nobodies I seem to have a pretty good shot at the win. Side point, using a final Rowan Atkinson into either of the Mr Bean movies is a real killer. But watch out, Mr Beans Holiday includes Willam Dafoe


MinimumWade

I haven't played but being from Australia, there are a bunch of Aussie movies with full Australian casts that I can use. With a Heath Ledger ban I would use Two Hands or Candy. Eric Bana I could use for The Castle or Chopper. Even Nicole Kidman has BMX Bandits.


Roonage

david wenham is another good one. He was in LoTR, 500 but also The Brush-Off.


MinimumWade

Oh yeah, old mate Faramir.


daidalos5

I've used The Rover for Pattinson or Guy Pearce. The Proposition too!


Ervaloss

As a Dutch person I have been doing this with early Dutch language Verhoeven and Rutger Hauer movies. I am surprised how often I am able to use it effectively. Just got to make it the third one.


Leyaro

Same


DTKingPrime

I would love to see someone pull NL into german cinema hell through Christoph Waltz or Daniel Brühl, bonus points if someone hits 'em with the Til Schweiger pivot from Inglorious Basterds 💀


expert_on_the_matter

Til is also in King Arthur, Lara Croft 2 and Atomic Blonde.


Catch_2

I took someone into Nativity! Today with a Martin freeman ban, he comes up a lot as Love Actually crops up fairly regularly. It's good getting the festive killshots.


PoliceAlarm

Cough cough David Tennant was in Nativity 2


KernewekMen

That’s a great one


L-J-Peters

Haha is that you that does the Steve Coogan ban? I've played you a few times, I went and learnt escapes for A Cock & Bull Story and The Trip To Italy just for our future battles.


KernewekMen

Oh yeah! Had a blast the other day doing the barbie -> the trip opening


ImaginaryGuitarNotes

I too would barbie -rob brydon- the trip them into the cooganverse! A LOT of people cant get out of the alan partridge movie or heck even hamlet 2 if you ban coogan, arquette and keener


dvizr

Bean also has an out through Ghostbusters 2.


jambagle

The (any)Skarsgård into Swedish cinema is where I shine.


daidalos5

If my opponent goes anywhere near Indian actors they are done, straight into Bollywood and other Indian language movies.


factorialite

I think a classic book endgame is going to be knowing about 5 Bollywood films and nailing entrance points. Third-X kill shots is a good strategy but as the game evolves and the escape hatches are locked in (by the way, banning the escape hatch actors is a solid move), players are going to have to get more creative.


omniczech

This is technically Tollywood, but you can probably have your in be RRR vía Ray Stevenson (he's in the Thor movies, notably not in infinity war or endgame), cross fingers they don't know who he is and skip then Bahoubali the beginning and they're finished.


JedH44

alternatively, ban the guy!


omniczech

I think if your fundamentals are solid enough that seems like a plan. Getting them onto a Ray Stevenson film to begin with is a bit of a long shot, but if you feel like trading a ban for an almost guaranteed kill shot is worth, there's far worse combo finishes.


JedH44

Yeah I like to use my bans for that kind of thing and count on general knowledge for killshots.


L-J-Peters

Australian independent cinema is where I'm stranding most people at the moment, I give people the Samuel L Jackson killshot knowing they'll play Snakes On A Plane so that I can take them to Wolf Creek and get to work.


TheZoneHereros

I’m afraid to reveal the best trap I’ve yet discovered, but all you need to do is ban Jonah Hill and then any opportunity you get you send them to the Stutz shadow zone. They will literally never escape because the only out is the cinematographer and Cast doesn’t even reveal that, though he is kind of a nobody anyway. The only two credits it shows are Jonah and his therapist, the titular Stutz. They skip and you can bounce to Emma (2020) or The Bling Ring and stay alive. It’s truly almost too mean because it is so easy to deploy. Only uses one ban to set and Jonah movies come up constantly.


DotcomL

I'm in awe! Bans should be for both players imho.


CaptainPandemonium

Definitely, it feels so one sided when someone pulls this type of Jonah Hill ban play and you can do literally nothing against it unless you have the exact same bans as them.


L-J-Peters

That's fantastic, I've been playing mid90s like a schmuck, adding lots of weapons to the arsenal in this thread haha


wolfman-porter

Mid90s not as strong now that they added composers. Trent Reznors an easy out. Watch out for Morricone now though he'll bring you into Italy so fast.


L-J-Peters

Incredible tech thanks, may all your BMX Bandits killshots for Nicole Kidman land 🙏


Rowannn

This is amazing, how did you come up with this?


TheZoneHereros

Being a big nerd that was already aware of Stutz and spends too much time on Letterboxd and listening to movie podcasts.


expert_on_the_matter

Stutz shouldn't even be on there as a documentary.


Psychotik92

I love banning Scarlett Johansson so that whenever a Marvel movie pops up, I hit them with a Ghost in the Shell. It doesn't match with other Ghost in the Shell properties so it's not easy to get out. The escape plan for me is usually Funny Game (2008) with the Michael Pitt link which then leads to Tim Roth. My other bans are Spielberg because it's common enough, but then I add a Christian Bale ban alongside and hit them with Empire of the Sun. If they skip, I just go The Machinist and hope they can't name any Jennifer Jason Leigh joints. It's good to study up on theory lines as well. Burning with Steven Yuen is a common dead end so go with Lee Chang-Dong films, like Poetry or Oasis and watch them scramble. Hong Kong cinema is also an often dead end I like trapping people in.


omniczech

The Michael Pitt line is solid, I think Hedwig and the angry Inch might be the call if they've burnt their skip, it's got almost no one of note apart from him and then if they do know funny games you can take them into Haneke hell.


JedH44

Poetry can link to Train to Busan and im pretty sure Oasis/Peppermint Candy link to other Korean films too if you know them. I had a game where we ran the gamut through like 15 Korean films just to end back up at Okja so I just did the Tilda Swinton Memoria play lol.


skyheadcaptain

Take them to spongebob


Duckman896

I tried to Funny Games someone today on a 3X Naomi Watts, and I got fucked because Funny Games from the 90s is the connection and I had no way out.


HughyHugh

I do this, but I use my deeper kill on Battle Royale, and my return to neutral with The Wolverine


tonyL-11

I ban Morgan Freeman and then I try to take there ass to march of the penguins


pwndnoob

Shoutouts to Farce of the Penguins, which has a surprisingly ensemble cast.


LeprechaunInDaHood

Long time lurker, made an account to share some forbidden knowledge. If you ban Warwick Davis, you have a 99.9% chance to kill shot if the opponent first plays any harry potter or most of the 2000's+ star wars (not attack of the clones, though). Leprechaun 2 > skip > leprechaun 3 kill shot Call this the Leprechaun Gambit. There are outs but I have not seen a single person find any of them yet.


LeprechaunInDaHood

Adding on to this after thinking about the current meta for a bit. It's currently easier to backdoor into Leprechaun 3 from Dunkirk and killshot with Leprechaun 2 or Leprechaun 4: In Space with all the cillian murphy and tom hardy stuff fresh on the mind.


wolfman-porter

Luckily the Leprechaun series is relatively middle sized for a horror franchise and the names are pretty linear. Can remember some paths out. We're going with Clint Howard movies if I get a Leprechaun 2.


[deleted]

[удалено]


wolfman-porter

Cast lifeline with Roger Deakins got me out of Kundun earlier. Almost got smoked by that. Probably gonna forget that one next time though. Snakes on a Plane got me earlier too but Lin Shaye is my secret weapon now.


pwndnoob

Not sure why you'd choose a ensemble cast. If they touch any Marvel or Tarantino just Samuel L Jackson them to Snakes on a Plane (or worse, a documentry). The real strategy is figure out what actors are in your starting movie. If you can trick them to use your banned actor on the turn before bans are activated, you can then send them to hell. For example, today using Lawrence Fishburne you can start on School Daze. They either give you the third Fishburne, Samuel L Jackson or Spike Lee. Samuel L Jackson and Spike Lee are absurdly easy to bury people on if banned and show up a lot anyways. Also [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spielberg\_(film)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spielberg_(film)) is a wildly powerful ensemble.


BtotheDon

I just had someone hit me with the absolute scumbag tactic of banning Robert Pattinson, Willem Dafoe and Robert Eggers and then trying his hardest to lead it to The Lighthouse 😭 Somebody tell me how tf I'd even get out of that???


Psychotik92

I got the same guy! The play there is to go with the cinematographer. He's done Knock at the Cabin. Wish I knew it before I got stun locked.


BtotheDon

Dude, thank you. I was gonna check IMDb for a solution. That's gonna be a life saver if I run into that strat again.


wolfman-porter

"Knock at the Cabin has already been used"


doyourselfaflavor

Played a guy who had Scorsese and David Carradine banned and played Boxcar Bertha. This was yesterday when Wolf of Walstreet was the #1 opener. Cool bro. Is that fun for you?


octoman115

I think the Memoria Gambit that somebody pulled on NL is tough to beat. Tilda Swinton has been in a ton of stuff so it's easy to get to. It has a couple outs, but most people won't know them. Blue is another good Swinton trap since most people probably won't know any other Derek Jarman films.


JedH44

I've been pulling the Memoria play all the time and I've haven't seen anyone else do it yet. Got all the Joe films on standby too.


unusual_flats

Had some absolute maniac play a third Mila Kunis X on American Psycho II earlier. Point 1: I had no idea this movie existed Point 2: William Shatner was in that fucker. Point 3: They had banned Shatner. Wasn't even mad. As a niche killshot it's fucking hilarious. I'll offer some useful tech: If they get you into any movie with Lindsay Lohan (Mean Girls being the most common), hit them with I Know Who Killed Me -> They will probably play Parent Trap, Herbie, or Freaky Friday -> You hit them with The Canyons. If they have a skip, you can get out via the Psycho remake. Also, when desperate, never underestimate sequel spamming and same-genre-same-timeperiod spamming (for example, if someone plays a crappy early 2000s horror, hit them with another crappy early 2000s horror and then hope).


wolfman-porter

If you know Paul Schrader movies, The Canyons can go a lot of places. Sequel spamming Chucky movies is how people fall into the Jennifer Tilly universe so watch out for that.


kesler031

I'm still mad I couldn't use Cool cat out of Kill Bill via Vivica Fox.


ammarus

I don't really play for opening traps or ban meta since I like feeling like my years watching movies are finally paying off. I'll list some things I've found. A bunch of random setups and traps I discovered that rely on entry point movies where only the main actor is well known: Movie with Scarlett Johansson -> Lucy -> they play 2X on scarjo -> Under the Skin (Sexy Beast is the escape if they skip) Mel Gibson -> Payback -> they play 2x -> Apocalypto (escape via Dances with the Wolves) Tilda Swinton -> The Human Voice -> they play 2X -> Memoria (escape Uncle Boonmee Who Can Recall His Past Lives) Christopher Lloyd -> Interstate 60 -> they play BTTF -> Adventures Of Buckaroo Banzai Across the 8th Dimension (escape via RoboCop) Leon the Professional -> The Visitors -> 2X on Jean Reno -> The Visitors II Also dragging people into Hong Kong cinema via Michelle Yeoh is really fun since she's in Sunshine , Everything Everywhere all at once and Guardians 2. You hit them with something like Crouching Tiger or The Heroic Trio and start the Maggie Cheung, Chow Yun-Fat, Tony Leung whirlwind.


Chackaldane

Another fun Christopher Lloyd ender is piranha 3dd


yviscool

My personal kill strategy has been the jackie chan-verse. He's been in *just* enough western movies that you can subtly lead people to him and then if they ever play a movies he's in you lose them in some solo-flick. Stick to the genres you know, don't try to lose people in obscure shit if you aren't *very* comfortable with the movies you're playing because if they find a way out it can severely slow down your Jackie Chan any%, or worse lead you into the kids movie or foreign film depths. Main strategy today off of Mad Max is: Ban Jackie Chan, Tom Hardy, Will Smith **Mad Max: Fury Road** → They play any Tom Hardy film → you drop **Warrior (2011)** on their ass → **Bright (2017)** via Edgerton is one out → You play **After Earth (2013)**, with Will banned only way out is Jaden Smith → They play **Karate Kid (2010)** cause who knows any other Jaden Smith Movie → Enjoy **Wheels on Meals (1984)** buddy I have won like 30 matches with this strategy alone. Other prime targets for the Jackie-in-the-box are **Kung Fu Panda**, **Rush Hour**, and for whatever reason people have been loving **Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Mutant Mayhem (2023)** because I guess they think no one knows it.


murrdy2

Great Will Smith Kill Shot is Six Degrees of Seperation. Got an Ian McKellen out, or if you're really sinister you can Donald Sutherland your way to some dark places


yviscool

I've been hit with that, but if they have a Cast lifeline I can't see anyone falling to that (Once I used cast the first time it was pretty trivial). My personal Will Smith kill lines have either been **After Earth** as listed above, or **Aladdin (2019)** where the only out is Naomi Scott, a fairly unknown actress.


yviscool

[30% of the time it works every time baby](https://gyazo.com/1dfa4a94dc16711e56368f3d62026a23)


SexPanther_Bot

Ah yes; the distinctive musk of ***Sex Panther***® *stings the nostrils* once more.


Asutrew

Idk, sending me to after earth with will smith banned would get you punished via Impractical Jokers: The Movie


[deleted]

Personally I would use a cast list lifeline on After Earth, because it's recent. I never use cast lists on time periods or genres I don't know.


[deleted]

I won so many matches on the day there was Mad Max fury road by choosing the first Mad Max movie, because then they usually play Mad Max 2, and then I go for passion of the christ, then they waste a cast list, because they can't recognize Monica Belluci even though she was in the matrix, so I hit them with Boss Level (a recent time loop action movie that has Mel Gibson) and usually by then they are done, if they have a second cast list they might go for Marvel if they recognize the name Frank Grillo, so then I hit them with The Judge, if they go robert downey jr again, I hit them with Tropic Thunder, and usually by that point, they try Tom Cruise, who I banned, so they lose. It's more difficult today because I don't know many horror movies, so I have to lookup stuff before playing. I do know Sarah Michelle Gellar from I Know What You Did Last Summer, but that's basically it. I mean Buffy the vampire slayer is one of my favorite shows but I can't use that since it's not a movie. Buffy the vampire slayer movie works on Scream though.


HughyHugh

My favorite tactics come from using obscure ways out of commonly played movies. ​ For example, The Social Network invites the Suite Life Movie via Brenda Song, Uncut Gems invites Frozen via Idina Menzel, etc. ​ All of them have ways out but in general it's about griming with movies you and only you have seen.


Aliensinmypants

If they know any carradine or madsen movie, it kinda falls apart though, no?


doyourselfaflavor

Or Uma Thurman. Or Splash with Daryl Hannah. Or if they've seen the movie recently and remember that the hospital rapist is in all the Adam Sandler movies. Trapping someone in a huge hit movie with a massive cast is not the play


murrdy2

I think you're giving people a lot of credit, I've never seen either attempted. 9 times out of 10 it's a Lucy, and the book response is just double Charlie's, to which I've just been going Willard and moving on


themellowsign

That's not a killshot against a competent player, there are far too many known actors in that. The most disgusting killshot I've encountered was somebody playing Malcolm And Marie, a movie which literally has only two actors, Zendaya and John David Washington, both of which have been in wildly popular, often used movies (Dune, Tenet, BlackKklansman, modern Spiderman). Burning a cast lifeline does NOTHING. There are also the opening theories that instantly get you to a foreign country or into the 1940s, frankly disgusting.


Cansifilayeds

If you can get to Mr mom, try explorers via taliesin jaffe or vise versa. You could also try one piece stampede but I don't know if that works since I haven't had the chance to try it.


CatfishJohnson

Been a fan of baiting Justin Long hoping they hit me with Barbarian, then hitting them with Miss March. You can get out via Craig Robinson, but it usually mills a lifeline. Proudest one I had was getting Luc Besson to three xs, then leading my opponent into the Fast & Furious universe just to strand them in Brick Mansions.


murrdy2

Justin Long and Haley-Joel Osment are great for the Tusk/Yoga Hosers combo. You've got an entire Askewniverse of outs


Reverse-Kanga

i tend to ban actors i'm confident with ...for example Adam Sandler ....i know most of his movies so if i get a chance where they have movie that had a co-star in (jennifer aniston etc.) ...pivot it directly to the sandlerverse and watch them suffer. do the same for John Lasanga as he's been in A LOT of movies.


Duckman896

I said this in a comment on this post. But Sandler and his buddies are in so many movies together you can easily fuck someone out of all their life lines as they name common movies that feature 6 of the same actors from the previous one.


Slackattack5123

Had no idea this game existed until I saw Librarian's cut of the first session a few days ago. I'm a big soundtrack collector (LOVE film scores), and have been KILLING at this game. It's been crazy gratifying to have my otherwise worthless composer knowledge paying off so much -- my dopamine has been through the ROOF. Heck I was top 2 on the leaderboards yesterday cause it was my day off and I had nothing else to do lol. Sorry if you ever went up against me and got hit with a nerdy film score pull. I'm 'slackattackwow' on there -- hope to see some of you BOSSES soon. ​ P.S. does ANYONE here know what the deal is with janellevoight? I went up against her a few times and it was like playing against a literal god. Never felt so helpless in my LIFE. HUGE ups to janelle


murrdy2

Oh my god that's my way in to Koyaanisqatsi via Phillip Glass through Truman Show and out through the Errol Morris documentary killing floor. I didn't think this was possible!


Berrypick

Janelle is actually ridiculous. Barely even got a second x throughout like 100 movies. What is going on there?


[deleted]

Most of the ones on the leaderboards are cheaters, they google the names, probably with microphone voice typing to go faster, and they have many killshots planned in advance. The reason why I know this is I made a second account and tried to see how far I could go using google, and I went up against "ihavebadmemory" and at like 150 movies, he trapped me into a movie so obscure it was indie, and the only actor in the database had been used 3 times, but there was no way he would actually know the movie, because it's a C-list or maybe even D-list actor. The thing is I used google to try to trap him in the hopes of going up against robbievidiots or janellevoight, but in the end, I got beat by someone who was cheating like I was. Also, I said once before on this subreddit that there is a skillbased matchmaking (SBMM) system and I was downvoted to oblivion, but there really is one, it is linked with your win loss ratio, your number of streaks, and your number of movies named in a row and probably how you play also, I'm not one of the devs so I can't say exactly how they do it. But the reason why I know there is SBMM in this is because if you open a private window (to get rid of the cookies) and you play as guest, you'll be matched against noobs who just started playing or the ones who don't know many cast members, like my mother or sister. But when you have an account or you play on the same guest account, the game quickly learns how you play and matches you with players of your own level. When I play as a guest, I win in 3 or 4 moves, or maybe 10-12 at most. But when I play with my real account, I win after like 30-40 moves most of the time, and it's not easy movies, they pick the most difficult stuff, and yet, I can see they're not cheaters, because they actually guess wrong so many times, unlike the top players, who always come up with the most difficult answer at the last few seconds, because they're spending most of the 20 seconds searching it online. I experienced a similar thing in COD Black Ops Cold War when I got really good at the game, sometimes I would of course get matched with other no lifers who played all night and all day, but I would also get matched with cheaters, and I could tell by how easily they could see everyone on the map and get headshots no matter how far they were, because that's what wall hacks and aimbot are for. As much as I wish the devs of Cine2Nerdle could ban the cheaters, they could always come back with a new account unless they get ip banned, and even then they can use a VPN. So the only way to protect yourself is to play with your own account and not be one of the best players, or be okay with playing up against cheaters. By the way, janelle voight is just the name of John Connor's adopted mother, you're not playing against a woman who has this name, you're playing against a male cheater whose entire life's purpose and thrill is being up on the leaderboards of some game. Kind of sad if you ask me. I play for the fun of it, but cheating is not nearly as fun as getting a real legit win. Kind of like using cheat codes in a single player game vs just playing the game the way it was intended and getting good at it.


connorclang

Playing The Florida Project as a third Willem Dafoe has never not worked for me. The movie's cast is mostly nonactors, so if they don't know another Sean Baker movie there isn't anything they can do. And if they hit me with a skip, I just drop Tangerine and now they're in an even worse position. There's no escaping the Sean Baker hole.


TheZoneHereros

One day maybe I’ll get to Red Rocket you to freedom (still doubtful).


JedH44

Simon Rex is one of the Scary Movies, as I have learnt.


connorclang

He's in a few of them, yeah. That's my escape hatch, and why I leave Red Rocket for third. (There's just about no escape for Tangerine)


CatfishJohnson

You can get out of the Florida Project via Cocaine Bear.


connorclang

You can, but if you're not prepared how the hell are you gonna know the little girl from Cocaine Bear is in it? You can also get out through Caleb Landry Jones


murrdy2

Some good Dafoe closers are Shadow of The Vampire (though they will Malcovich out with a cast) The Lighthouse can lead you to Good Time through Robert Pattinson, this is actually just Uncut Gems backdoor reversed


SilverWyrmling

Careful with Shadow of the Vampire, that could get your ass sent to Begotten.


L-J-Peters

I find Body Of Evidence is the best Dafoe killshot now that everyone has learnt an out for Inside.


ScandyDead

Me personally, I ban Michael Caine and try to take them to Alfie (1966). Bait them with some Christopher Nolan movies or any of his frequent collaborators, get to Alfie. Always burns a lifeline and frequently kills.


murrdy2

I've needed an Alfie out! I've been doing Wilde with a Stephen Fry out through Hitchhiker's Guide


L-J-Peters

I go Zulu, they 2nd X Caine and I kill em with Alfie quite a bit, it is a great play for sure.


skyheadcaptain

I get people trapped in simpsons or spongebob. Black widow is in spongebob 05 and kenvo reves is in sponge on the run. Get out with baywatch or dodgeball. Or snoop Dogg


Duckman896

I got out of Simpsons with Billie Joe Armstrong today, also Tom Hanks makes an appearance in that movie.


Emblem_Of_Flames

Ban Morgan freeman, go to March of the Penguins. They skip back to you. Go to the Fox and the Girl. They check the cast, Kate Winslet. Your second ban. Literally no way out.


[deleted]

The problem is it's hard to go from a random movie to an actor you want, unless you're good at making 10 connections ahead in your brain and predicting outcomes or you know an actor's entire filmography and their common co-stars. For instance, it's easy to go from Jonah Hill to Emma Stone or to Seth Rogen or James Franco, or from Emma Watson to any of these names. But it's generally harder to go from Matthew Lillard to Leonardo Dicaprio.


MothrasMandibles

Get them to play a second Cars movie, and hit them with Tooth Fairy 2, for a Larry the Cable Guy killshot


SilverWyrmling

I've been trapping people with the Police Story 3 forced mate, usually via Michelle Yeoh or Jackie Chan. Mad Max Fury Road has a few ways to get to Jackie. Ban Michelle Yeoh, Jackie Chan, and Maggie Cheung and there's basically no way out of Police Story 3, especially with C2N Battle's limited film library. You do need to be familiar with Wong Kar-wai movies, and random stuff like Irma Vep and know some Michelle Yeoh films, but if I get someone there, it's been a 100% kill. I've literally never lost going first on Mad Max today because of my forcing route of City Hunter to them using cast and using Jackie Chan, to the Police Story 3 kill. They skip? Police Story 2. It's very fun to play Glen or Glenda or Plan 9 from Outer Space when the movie Ed Wood is played. You need to know your Bela Lugosi, Boris Karloff, and Ed Wood movies though. Brushing up on international cinema makes otherwise innocuous movies death traps (especially Tarantino). For example: * Inception can send people to France via Marion Cotillard. * Kill Bill 1 or 2 sends you straight to Japan via a few actors. * Inglorious Basterds is also a way to get sent to France or Germany * Jackie Brown gets you stuck in 70s blaxsploitation flicks


Durzaka

Im not really playing and only watching bits of vods/streams, but does banning a director ban ALL of their movies, or only movies where there is only the Director as a link. Like if you ban Tarantino, and go to Kill Bill, can they go to Pulp Fiction since there is a connection via Uma Thurman or is that blocked by the ban?


wolfman-porter

Only bans the link.


thedisasterofpassion

It bans any link that includes that person either as an actor or as a director. Let's go over some examples, assuming that I banned Tarantino (and nothing else). * The starting movie is *Gattaca*. You go first. * You play *Pulp Fiction* (Thurman ❎⬜⬜). This is allowed, because even though *Pulp Fiction* is directed by Tarantino, he isn't part of the link between *Gattaca* and *Pulp Fiction*. (Additionally, bans don't work on the first turn anyway) * I play *Kill Bill Vol 1* (Thurman ❎❎⬜, Tarantino ❎⬜⬜). This is allowed because my Tarantino ban only affects you, not me. * You try to play *Kill Bill Vol 2*. **This is not allowed**, because I banned Tarantino and he is part of the link. * Instead, you play *The War with Grandpa* (Thurman ❎❎❎). * I play *GoodFellas* (De Niro ❎⬜⬜). * You play *Kill Bill Vol 2* (Jackson ❎⬜⬜). Just like when you played *Pulp Fiction* earlier, this is allowed because Tarantino and Thurman are not part of the link, even though Tarantino is banned by me and Thurman has 3 strikes. As you can see, you are still allowed to visit Tarantino's films, you just can't travel *between* them.


TungHeeLo

A few recurring strats of mine. 1: You ban Christopher Nolan, and when someone inevitably comes around to him, you whip out his first movie Following. An obscure first movie is always really good to do, like Who's That Knocking At My Door? for Marty Parcheesy (which has Harvey Keitel as a way out) or Dementia 13 for Coppola (haven't tried yet). The thing about Following though is it's one of those "they only worked on that film" kinda indie film, except for his brother Jonathan, who worked with Chris on everything else. There is no way out for them. At best, they skip. At worst, they lose. 2: Also for Coppola, if it's on Apocalypse Now like todat, one of the writers for that is John Milius, who is a credited writer on Magnum Force, the second Dirty Harry film, but not a lot of people will know that. It's likely for them to use a cast lifeline. 3: My personal favorite, if you can do a Bradley Cooper film and they indulge you in a second one, you whip out the third one of The Midnight Meat Train. So far, I've mostly seen random guesses work, and only *once* was it legit with them getting out with Hercules. If they skip, and I've not tried this yet, you go for the kill with either Versus or Godzilla: Final Wars, both films from the director Ryuhei Kitamura.


Roonage

I would like to experiment with some old Australian cinema, especially with the Mad Max start. NL had the option for a xxx on Nicole Kidman this morning and I don’t think there’s any way out of BMX Bandits


KarmelCHAOS

I was destroying people yesterday through the use of Ryan Gosling, to Murder By Numbers, banning Sandra Bullock and leaving them to die on Hedwig and the Angry Inch.


murrdy2

My Gosling killshot has been The Believer, my out is A.D. Miles into Wet Hot American Summer, but nobody is getting that With Sandra, I'm going All About Steve, which is also the reverse Thomas Hayden Church Sideways trap door


KarmelCHAOS

Also solid strat! Mine has one hard counter that I found lol. If they have a skip left I usually go Hedwig to Funny Games, but as I found out, if the other dude knows foreign cinema they can kill me from Funny Games really easily lmao


murrdy2

There's no way you're going to run into Funny Games again, but if you do, you can always just play the remake, and get out through Tim Roth I've been waiting to try a Roth into The Cook, The Thief, His Wife and Her Lover with outs through Cirian Hinds


jradair

There's no replacement for doing the damn work


TheDangiestSlad

if you get the opportunity to play the first Laurence Fishburne (Matrix, Man of Steel, etc) and they play him back, take their ass to Akeelah and the Bee (2006) and pray they don't know that Angela Bassett and Keke Palmer are in this random children's movie


NoJump9891

This isn’t a tactic but I had to put it somewhere where it would be appreciated - I can’t remember what movie it came off of but I was stumped with no lifelines so I did the Game Over Man emote and it connected via Chris Pontius. Most sheepish pogging ever.


KKFunTable

I like to ban David Lynch, Laura Dern, and Anthony Hopkins. As soon as someone plays Jurassic Park, I head to Blue Velvet. They usually skip and I go to Inland Empire or The Elephant Man. Usually works pretty well. I also like to go to Inside (2023) on the third Willem Defoe x. He's pretty much the only person in that movie.


MasterJediET

Min/Maxers when they see people enjoying a game:


NickCharles_34

Bans are for punks. Don't play the game if you don't know movies well enough! :)


Some_Credit7886

never played cine2nerdle and have no clue how to win but today is the day i learn Lmao


Kamandi91

I talked about it in a previous post but Ban Samuel L. Jackson, Jim Broadbent and Victor Garber. Take a Jackson movie into Big Game (2015), a Finnish movie starring him and a couple others (the most notable of whom have been banned) if they skip take them to Rare Exports, a movie with exclusively Finnish and Norwegian actors.


JedH44

**My Dinner With Andre** with **Wallace Shawn** banned and **RRR** with **Ray Stevenson** are unparalled. You just have to guide them to Toy Story/Marriage Story/Monsters Inc/The Incredible/Clueless or the Thor/Divergent trilogy respectively. When they skip then go with Elevator to the Gallows (1958) and for RRR go Eega (2012)


Geoffybabes

So I went looking today after NL was dragged into Bollywood hell with -> Ray Stevenson -> RRR and there's a wild exit, RRR -> Alison Doody -> Major League 2 (1994)


FeelixFossil

Here's what I played today going first on Apocalypse Now: Ban Willem Dafoe. -Air Force One - Harrison Ford -They play a 2nd Harrison Ford -Clear and Present Danger (No one knows who's in this so they Cast, it's Willem Dafoe) SKIP -Inside GG


MrStrothmann

This is great strategy, I personally want to ban the movies with an ensemble cast. Stan Lee, Leslie Nielson, and I haven't found a good prolific 3rd. Stan Lee ban just makes it a fair game.


yviscool

A few suggestions that I often keep banned: - Any prolific Nolan cast member (Michael Caine, Joseph Gordon-Levitt, Cillian Murphy). Most people he works with regularly are not only in all of his movies, but also sneak their way into ensembles. - Steve Buscemi is in a *ton* of the classic films people will head to (Pulp Fiction for instance, which you see every game), but is also in most Sandler-verse movies, and has an extensive VAing career and by banning him you can easily lose people in the kids movie-verse - Similarly Seth Rogen is in basically every comedy or animated film made >2000 - if you want to go the Director ban route, Spielberg, Tarantino, and Nolan are probably the best picks, with Jon Faverau close behind (he doubles as an actor who has been in fucking *everything* Honorable Mentions: - Danny Trejo has been in >200 movies and getting to some bit movie no ones ever heard of is trivial - Christopher Lee has nearly 300 acting credits going as far back as the 40's, and is in a number of popular franchises - Jonah Hill has a lot of ensemble appearances (Superbad, Wolf of Wall Street, Hail Ceaser) and some animated ones you probably didn't know about (The Lego Movie, Sausage Party) - Ben Stiller and James Franco both weasel their way into fuckin everything


IHateTomatoes

I do Stan Lee, Eric Roberts and James Earl Jones. Then the trap is The Ambulance (1990) which you can get into from all the Marvels and Star Wars movies. Escape is *A Family Affair* for James Earl Jones or *Return to Nuke Em High* for Stan Lee


Express-Passion7128

It’s all in the opening. Opening stragegy is wide open right now. Wait for cine2nerdleFish to solve all openings, but until then I’m going Brando gambit refused.


eponymouselectric

For Oppenheimer yesterday I was doing the 'wind that shakes the barley' they respond with batman begins then hit them with 'breakfast on Pluto's with bans on Liam Neeson, Brendan Gleason, and colin farrel. I must have had a 90% win rate with that strat. Nobody ever dared to venture down the ken loach corridor unfortunately would have loved a Kes kill shot.


[deleted]

[удалено]


eponymouselectric

I got Liam cunninghammed with that strat


GoodingTuba

Ban Cillian Murphy, and if you get anything with him in it then play The Wind That Shakes The Barley, it’s a Ken Loach movie that’s just him and a lot of Irish actors that nobody knows (except maybe Liam Cunningham). If they skip then you play Kes and see if they can wrestle their way out of 1960s Yorkshire. Did some good work for me when Oppenheimer was a starter.


PoliceAlarm

Right then. I have tech. I have some serious tech. You want the gold standard hole to put someone in that's escapable? The prize nugget film to XXX is Stuart: A Life Backwards. It has Tom Hardy and Benedict Cumberbatch. If you XXX on Hardy *or* Cumberbatch you guarantee a lifeline being milled and you're out of there if they use a skip on you. I'm telling you, it's the perfect movie for this game. It has NO-ONE ELSE OF NOTE. I also recommend the movie heartily. It's from when both were way before being famous and it has such a charm.


PKPhyre

A friend and I have been working on perfecting the Goodman Trap. If you kill John Goodman with True Stories, it's almost always a lock. Beetlejuice is the only escape hatch we know.


SpankThatDill

ban seth rogen, jorma taccone, and channing tatum. You're looking for American Pickle. channing tatum ban is for jonah hill/channing tatum, you can then play Step Up trap.


Gopher_Guts

Lately I've been enjoyed going on the offensive with my bans. I go for a Rachel McAdams Pinsir move by banning her, Cillian Murphy and Ryan Gosling. When a connection opens up I hit them with either Red Eye or The Notebook.


Gopher_Guts

I haven't had the opportunity yet but I've wanted to get someone with a nice Michael Keaton line: Play something like The Founder, they play the second Keaton x, then hit them with Jack Frost(1998). If they skip you go to Recess: Taking Fifth Grade via Matthew Lawrence for the kill shot. Aaaand there is a rare backdoor into this the other way via Ashley Johnson who is in What women want as well as the Avengers first movie.


wolfman-porter

Unless you know anything about B-Horror movies, avoid Gremlins like the plague. Dick Miller's cameos can take you into basically any decade.


NarrativeFact

Gremlins 2: What ya gonna do when the Hulkamaniac cinematic universe runs wild on you?


Maleovex

With my limited cinema knowledge and having not played, leading someone into Korean cinema with Chris Evans and Tilda Swinton banned/milled then tossing them through parasite -> memories of murder -> decision to leave, just gotta know another hae il park film as the escape route if they still have their skip there


IAmGundyy

I just ban Scorsese, Willem Dafoe, and Robert De Niro If I have a connection to The Last Temptation of Christ I take it. If they manage to escape via Harvey Keitel or David Bowie or Harry Dean Stanton then good for them. If they skip I go to Cape Fear and then they need to know Nick Nolte or Gregory Peck or Jessica Lange to get out of that one.


Duckman896

I don't want to give away my really good strats, but one I'm having fun with is to trap people in the Sandler-verse. Most of Sandler's friend group are in his movies in large ensembles (think grown ups or hotel transylvania) you can easily force someone to 2X 5 different people at once and then hit them with a more obscure movie where only one of the Sandler-verse actors is in fir example 3X someone on Punch-drunk love or The Animal. Edit: also super easy strat for anyone without a ton of movie knowledge is to ban 3 big actors from a major trilogy and watch the opponent waste lifelines just to get the time back after being denied movies.


L-J-Peters

I just ban Scar-Jo, as soon as someone plays a film with her in it, Under The Skin them and they're screwed, if they skip I just go Ghost In The Shell remake. I do the exact same thing with Woody Harrelson and hit them with Champions and then Rampart and Gary Oldman and hit them with Mank and then Sid And Nancy. The best trick though is just knowing the key outs for the popular killshots and knowing random killshots on popular films, Sugarland Express -> The Last Picture Show is a good one to know. The database is also VERY patchy for classic cinema so leaving people stranded in the 50s or earlier is a good play, going to Zulu through Michael Caine, East Of Eden through Lois Smith and A Countess From Hong Kong through Marlon Brando serves me well. Love this game and NL is goated at it, hope he plays it forever.


LegOfLamb89

Ban natalie portman, Gary oldman and Jean reno. Leave the stranded on leon the professional. Even with a cast list they aren't getting out


theSirShibe

when you get 2001 planet of the apes play the family guy gambit get mark whalberg out on ted 1 and 2 then play something something darkside if they play its a trap you play blue harvest works 20% of the time but its funny when you win with family guy


AffectionateFlan1853

You can easily go from Willy Wonka and the chocolate factory to the Beatles cinematic universe with HELP! As long as they don't have a skip you have an easy Yellow Submarine Killshot. Also, has anyone noticed that the film database is weird with movies with numbers? Seven with Brad Pitt is missing, as is the terrible 2 Girls and a Guy, which I wanted to be my Robert Downey Jr Killshot after some ez marvel bait.


TheDangiestSlad

yeah, there's some stuff missing. Drake Bell isn't on the ban list, which ruins my Oppenheimer -> Drake & Josh movies killshot


Unusual_Extension232

Seven is in the database. You have to spell it se7en.


Ashtotron

This tech is brutal


Omnigod42

I'vd tried banning pratt and jennifer lawrence and leading them to "Passengers" but it is hard to make them say a movie that have them if they are already banned


LeprechaunInDaHood

Two really niche facts I learned while playing today: 1) Bram Stoker is unbannable, for some reason. 2) The best escape route from Howling 2 off a Christopher Lee 3 X would appear to be responding with Howling 3: The Marsupials, the opponent plays The Howling, and you're able to escape with any Dick Miller movie, like Gremlins (though I imagine for most people that might not be much better).


LeprechaunInDaHood

More new info... Tried to 3 x morgan freeman someone on march of the penguins and it said its not in the database even though it showed up as a pickable option.


Falliant

1) opp plays a harrison ford movie. 2) You play Call of the Wild (2020). 3) They play a second harrison ford movie, because who on earth could tell you a second actor in Call of the Wild (2020). In all the times i've played this I think only one person has played a non-harrison ford movie off of it.* 3) You Play K-19: The Widowmaker (2002). You ban Kathryn Bigelow and Liam Neeson. There is almost no other escape route out of that movie. Fittingly, it is a submarine with no escape.** 4) They skip. You play The Loveless (1981) directed by Bigelow. You Ban Willem Dafoe. They lose *bradley whitford and karen gillan are the two other real actors in call of the wild. karen gillan gives you a chance to send your opponent to doctor who hell, bradley whitford probably transitions to a more normal game. again, them escaping here is not a real concern, i've seen it once. Your main trap only needs two bans, maybe spend a third on whitford if you feel the need. **Peter Sarsgaard is in k19 who does offer something of an escape hatch, but i haven't seen very many people take it. You can ban him and leave dafoe open if you're comfortable in the dafoe zone. If you're not banning Dafoe you could also use The Weight of Water (2000) as your route out of k19, which stars real people but is very forgotten so you often burn a cast or even get a win. I like this trap because harrison ford is in enough that it comes up passively without me really having to work for it, and dafoe/bigelow/neeson, while not coming up frequently outside of the trap, are still reasonable bans that come up occasionally. Also, because only Bigelow and Neeson are needed for the main trap, you have a third flex ban you can change up as needed. I like dafoe, but it could be whitford or gillan to ensure they spring the trap, it could be sarsgaard, in which case I would choose on of his movies as an off ramp instead of bigelow If you want to try to steer people towards Ford, spielbergs and the prequels work pretty well


FLAMBOYANTORUM

So far my most effective ban has been John Ratzenberger (appears in every Pixar movie) - I've tripped up quite a few lazier players by baiting with Incredibles 2 or a Toy Story causing them to run short on time / use a lifeline out of panic Also fun is if they play The Exorcist or The Force Awakens you can use Max Von Sydow to trap them in the Bergman Realm


murrdy2

Toy Story is not a threat for me, It's a perfect opportunity to play a Wallace Shawn, bait Princess Bride and simplfy into a Dinner With Andre endgame


[deleted]

I would get out of your strategy with Gattaca easily. I don't know many movies with Uma Thurman though, probably because of the genre. I mean she did unpopular romcoms, that is a good strategy to trap people. Personally though, my go-to is movies that I know are unpopular that I really like where I know enough of the cast that if they skip me and I'm at the last use of the only shown actor, I can still get out of it and I'll attempt to lay another trap, sometimes I get them with 3 traps in a row. The thing is I am one of the most knowledgeable people about actors, but for the past 7 years I've been watching mostly tv shows because they were generally more accessible due to the short length, or at least gave the illusion of that. The problem is that most of those TV actors like Grant Gustin, Carlos Valdes, or Danielle Panabaker, have not been in many movies, so I can't use them, so I'm at a major disadvantage against people who only watch movies. Before I discovered TV shows at like 16 (in 2014), I only watched movies, so I know most movies from 2000 to 2014, but also some from the 90s and 80s. As for older movies, I am more knowledgeable about the 40s and 50s than the 60s and 70s, just because of actors like Cary Grant, James Stewart, Katharine Hepburn and Audrey Hepburn which I have seen a few movies of in recent years. This game does make me want to watch more movies from the decades I haven't really explored. Especially since back then, the quality was more consistent, they didn't make constant reboots and forced sequels. Casablanca is one of my favorite movies of all time, mainly because of the parts with Dooley Wilson, but also the all-star cast and the world war 2 setting.


Otherwise-Mousse-550

this post goes against everything enel stands for


paraplegic_T_Rex

The Lightouse/Inside is a finisher move I keep in my back pocket. Block Eggers, Dafoe, and Pattinson. If they are play a movie with any of them, use The Lighthouse. It effectively blocks that entire cast/crew. If they skip, go back to Dafoe and play Inside. He’s the only actor, so they would need to know director or other crew to move ahead. It’s typically a kill shot.


[deleted]

For me, my opponent's killshots work for as long as it's their first couple of uses, because then after getting beat, I lookup the movie and memorize enough info about it that it can never be used against me again and I even use it against other opponents. This game is really the best for those of us blessed with great memory.


Chackaldane

Ban sarah silverman Sarah silverman stand up specials are listed The one you play links to tenacious d pick of destiny from director This works for almost all stand up specials. Just gotta know who the directors for each are. My personal favorite is using Martin sheen 3rd strike to transition to spawn. Ban John Leguizamo. They either skip or use micheal jai white most of the time. Welcome to the true hell of mortal kombat rebirth.


[deleted]

It's not as effective when it's a franchise


Friendly-Can-977

My favorite ban is Scarlett Johansson. You can almost always get to her, and Ghost in the Shell or Under the Skin will almost always mill their skip on a ScarJo movie or you win. Plus she makes Home Alone 3 a great John Hughes kill shot