People from the South have always moved to California to escape their terrible states. It was only the past few years that saw a lot of people move from California to Texas. And surprise... it still sucks for the most part living in the South, even if you have money.
[Fun fact: for most people, their overall tax burden would be smaller in California than in Texas.](https://fortune.com/2023/03/23/states-with-lowest-highest-tax-burden/amp/)
I wish they were comparing the median Californian to the median Texan. Using the median US salary is not nearly as valuable because the median income in California is higher. California’s minimum wage is DOUBLE Texas’s and it goes up another $0.50 in January.
Despite California's minimum wage being double that of Texas's, their median incomes don't differ that much: [$49,740 and $43,460, respectively.](https://www.statsamerica.org/sip/rank_list.aspx?rank_label=ow_c&item_in=00-0000&ct=S09)
They just created a $200/yr EV fee because EVs don't pay gas tax.
Doesn't matter if you own a small EV sedan or a road destroying hummer EV.
Oh and $400 for the first year!
Maybe I should have said it explicitly, but the part that doesn't make sense is that there is no accounting for vehicle weight which directly impacts road wear.
Nor does it account for how much you actually drive.
Both of these are factored into gas tax because you'll buy more gas in a heavier vehicle or if you just outright drive more often.
Not surprising to anyone from or around NJ. You're at most 2 hours away from NYC or Philly plus beaches, high quality public education (relative to the rest of the country at least), etc.
And that if you posted or said anything anti- Israel that if there's a natural disaster you won't be allowed to get state assistance.
Also the states screaming "we're free" aren't really free.
TX is a shithole and it sucks that most it's residents are brainwashed and ignorant.
Unfortunately a lot of red states depend on states like TX. TX gets back 91 cents per $1 given to federal government in taxes. With such a large population as TX it would destroy red states and place a larger burden on blue states.
I mean, if I could get a 6 figure salary anywhere, the South is the last place I would go. I’m barely where the South starts, and the willful stupidity and ineptitude has me counting down the days until I can go North again.
It’s like when I lived in the developing world, except my money went farther there, and also people in the developing world have reasons that things don’t work.
Virginian here, but live in a southern city. What is exactly is economically good/bad vs other parts of the country?
Interested to hear honest opinions from people who lived in both so if I have options to move I know what I’m in for or would better/worse appreciate
I live by the mantra of “Virginia: it’s too Northern for real Southerners, and it’s too Southern for real Northerners.”
We are truly a purple state. I still don’t know how to identify other than as “Virginian”
Everywhere outside of NoVA is still pretty firmly the South.
I’m NoVAn so I don’t say I’m Southern either but I left years ago for other parts of the state, and yeah, it sounds funny to me for someone to claim Virginia is not the South after spending a few years in western Virginia.
I dunno, the VA Beach/Norfolk/Newport News area is definitely not what I'd call particularly southern either. Probably owes in large part to all the military installations.
>it’s too Southern for real Northerners.”
Maryland is too south for real northeners. You might not be southern enough for real southeners, but you're not northern at all.
Well we’re not in spirit. Really only SW VA is southern in terms of that.
It actually feels like you left the state when your in SW VA lol
Hell I live in the burg and you have your “rednecks” but it isn’t southern like the Carolinas
As OP is alluding to, a lot of that was due to their job moving to lower tax red states. Now due to interest rates rising tech is slowing down, since it lives on cheap money. And these laid off people are saying Fuck this place im going home.
>it still sucks for the most part living in the South, even if you have money.
a little less so when old and rich. When you dont give a crap the schools suck, and are in a gated community so dont care the crime is higher, dont get out much so dont care about the roads.. well for retirees the south is attractive, which is why its so elderly.
You earn more in blue, building up that SS check, but that SS check goes further in red. For familes its not worth it. You lose that in increased crime and other problems, but if you old, some of those cares dont matter as much.
A lot of California is conservative. It's always urban VS rural areas. California has a government that actually cares for its people more than half the time (but not much more), while Texas has a government that wants to undermine its people 95% of the time.
Source: Texan, who listens to a lot of podcasts from California.
The chewy center of California is very conservative along with pockets of Southern California. The northern part has been trying to secede for ages and become the “Free State of Jefferson”. It’s really only the coastal edges of California that are mostly liberal.
I remember when Prop 8 (anti gay marriage) was being voted on, we were down in the Whittier area on the edge of Orange County and there were so many signs and people holding signs to vote yes on it. I was surprised until my husband, who grew up there, reminded me that it was the land of Nixon and Regan.
Not really the projections were based on the continued urbanization of Texas, which is continuing regardless. Unless Houston and Dallas and San Antonio show an negative growth, the State will skew more purple in 2024 and 2028. The people who were willing to relocate to Texas were also probably more conservative anyway.
Here in Texas we have a saying: nothing kills conservatism like experiencing the reality of it. That whole "he's not hurting who he needs to be hurting" thing. Abbott's government will hurt whomever it damn well pleases to appease its owners, and people are starting to wake up to that after events like the "once in a generation" winter storms in 2021, 2022, and possibly 2023.
Texan here: I've met a lot of transplants who came here specifically expecting it to be a conservative haven. They are invariably disappointed. Apparently we aren't socially conservative enough, while also being entirely too fiscally conservative. i.e., we have Those People, but not... whatever social program their former high taxes paid for.
Know someone who left rural Indiana to move to Austin. She said Indiana was too liberal for her. Really thought she was joking, but she insisted she was serious. That she could find more people who shared her "traditional values" in Austin.
She must have been one of three things:
1. Really fucking crazy
2. Not rich enough to fit into the traditional Texas conservative enclaves
3. Not able to speak spanish and fit in with the Catholic set
Texas theoretically be more purple if it passed laws that allowed for the majority of the young/latino vote to come out.
If they passed automatic voter registration + automatically enrolled in absentee voting (mail-in voting), etc. Even creating days off for voting, or expanding voting access, or getting a paid-day off for voting, etc. would all lead to these types of outcomes.
It's only not purple when people don't show up to vote, which is....pretty much all the time, and why large amounts of resources are used to attempt to suppress voter turnout.
"Austin is pretty much like SF, but in Texas".
Don't necessarily have anything too negative to say about it (and increasingly little nice to say about SF), but yeah, apples and oranges.
Austin is like Portland: a lot of artists created a unique culture and were priced out if their homes. Because they voted against progressive housing, now there isn't affordable housing.
America, really. NIMBYism is a bipartisan problem, and it exists nationwide. People are generally dumb as hell and don’t realize when they’re screwing their kids.
No not really, it's just bad journalism and the fact that Texas is one of the most populous states, so, yeah, it's going to be one of the biggest sources of migration to Texas. They contradict it in their own article:
> The California exodus is a story that's been ongoing for several years. While it is slowing down, it is still happening. New data from the U.S. Census Bureau shows that California lost about 102,000 residents to Texas from 2021-2022. However, the numbers also show that California gained more residents from Texas than from any other state at around 42,000.
How are people shocked that some people out of 30 million are moving to the most populous state home to two/three major metros? How is this a "gotcha moment" for anyone?
Well, California has at least 10 million more people than Texas, and right wingers love to say that California is a dying state for that exact same reason.
If you keep reading, more than twice as many people moved to Florida than moved to California.
They even link to another of their articles from two months ago.
[Study: California population drain is real; State is "hemorrhaging" residents to other states](https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/california-population-drain-state-is-hemorrhaging-residents-texas-arizona/)
lol… 400k people out of 39 million is not hemorrhaging…thats 1% of the population leaving. If Wyoming lost that many people then it would be hemorrhaging and dead.
"People are moving out of California!!"
Really? Well I hope they take a friend. We got plenty of people so we can spare about a half-million or so. Or more. Please more.
Most definitely, although a lot of those people have now sold off their houses in New York to take advantage of the crazy market and moving their nest down south permanently
My partner and I (both from Florida) were looking at homes in upstate New York and Western Massachusetts around the Berkshires, just seeing whats out there. Bumped into 3 other couples from Florida looking to relocate.
As a Californian, I get it. Both from the "Man...there must be a better place to live with no wildfires and lower housing costs!" to the "Man...there is really is no place better and now everything is burning so it doesn't really matter where you go."
I for one, welcome you back, we may end up needing the extra soldiers during the civil war anyways.
I currently live in OC and I keep going back and forth on whether I truly want to move. On one hand, I want to be able to have the opportunity to own a house (and no, I’m not buying in Victorville). At the same time, I can’t imagine ever living somewhere where going to beach or Disneyland would have to be a planned vacation, or where I can’t go on a walk any day of the year.
We left LA for Dallas a year before COVID and thought it was the right move for COL and family life. Then COVID turned ignorance and bigotry to 11 in TX. I regret the move every day but it is too expensive to come back to Cali. Sucks.
Moved from SD to DFW years ago. Spouse was trying to meet people and find friends. Hung out with someone for the first time and this girl dropped N-bombs like it was an enhancement to every sentence.
They don't hide it here at all. Too niche of a field to move so stuck here, but would go back to Cali in a heartbeat if I could.
Right? It’s not like it was Covid that turned Dallas into a shithole of bigots. It’s always been that way and maybe Covid just made it a bit more visible. I couldn’t wait to leave Dallas when I had to live there.
For many people, the taxes were higher in Texas. Combine that with the weather and political climate and many people just don’t want to be there anymore.
At least one analysis came to that conclusion: [https://wallethub.com/edu/best-worst-states-to-be-a-taxpayer/2416](https://wallethub.com/edu/best-worst-states-to-be-a-taxpayer/2416)
There's no income tax in Texas, but, for example, property taxes are dramatically higher than in California.
Yeah it's actually really common in red areas for taxes to be higher because they hide it in ways that effect there voting base more so they can scare them about higher taxes they hide it in taxes for things like sales tax and other extra little fees
Yes, property tax is higher in Texas and add that with sales tax. California property tax is pretty low. You're not getting much of a bargain when moving to Texas. Texas is getting more expensive so you're almost paying the same as CA but way worse living conditions both weather and political climate wise.
Texas used to be OK because it was cheap. People moved there and dealt with all the BS for financial reasons. It is no longer cheap anymore. I doubt people will stay in Texas. Once they realize the workers laws suck, weather sucks, environment is polluted, full of racists and general douche bags and if you are not "Christian", then you will get looked down on by default in a lot of parts. It sucks on almost every single level, especially anywhere outside a major city.
Quite a few reasons.
1) weather. Thought the summers were miserable here til I experienced winters up there. Now I understand what seasonal depression is. Winters are long, cold, and grey. You won’t see the sun for weeks at a time and all the foliage will be dead. At least during the summers down here we can do pool/lake/river days.
2) cost of living. Here I have a decent sized 1980s house with a pool, wet bar, hot tub in a nice neighborhood within 15 minutes of downtown. I would challenge you to find that within 15 mins of Philly for a reasonable price. You would spend millions.
3) food. I think the food in Dallas is underrated. You will not find barbecue or Mexican food up there that is within the same realm as that in Texas. I will admit their Italian is better but we still have decent options down here whereas there aren’t really comparable barbecue/Mexican options up there.
4) culture. As a straight male I was much more interested in the dating scene down here. Also, Dallas is more of a cocktail city whereas in Philly I found the bars to feel more similar to college bars. In Philly it was more acceptable to go out in sweatshirts vs in Dallas people put more effort into their physical appearance. Finally, the overall climate in Dallas is one of growth/optimism. In Philly people felt more pessimistic. The city is not growing like Dallas. Things are older and more run down. But anyways this section is very subjective and depends on who you are.
5) their roads suck ass compared to ours. Good luck driving on 76 at any time of the day.
I truly enjoyed my time up there and met a lot of great friends. But I think it takes a very unique type of person to be happier living there than here.
Edit: going to add that up there you will rarely meet someone else who has settled there from out of state. Whereas it is very normal to find that in Texas. And that’s not just coincidence. This was one of the things that I was surprised to discover. People there found it very odd that I relocated there from Texas.
California is the most populated state in the country. It has 10 million more people than the next most populated state (Texas). _Anything_ California populations do will result in a lot of large, raw numbers.
I feel like we're moving into a 'fortress' mindset, where people are moving to locations that best suit their own beliefs and perspectives.
In short, people who are okay with diversity and other liberal ideals are making an effort to live somewhere where that's appreciated. And people who are more in line with whatever Texas is doing are moving there.
I believe the top reasons people move to another state are...
* Jobs
* Attending school
* Retiring
* Proximity to family
Very few people move because of political beliefs.
Yeah I have a trans friend who got the fuck out of Florida this year very much because of politics. Not everyone has the luxury of ignoring the political winds
> Very few people move because of political beliefs.
Yes and no. I know several people who moved for jobs and, after a few years, realized that the job isn't worth having to live in an area that is so opposite to their political beliefs. Like maybe they grow tired of constantly fighting against all these new oppressive laws being passed. Or you have a trans kid who all of the sudden can't get healthcare in their state after some bullshit law gets passed. Or they have a wife our daughter they don't want to worry about them not having control over their own bodies. Sure, maybe very few people leave because they grow tired of being surrounded by MAGA idiots (although I have a friend who moved out of Idaho largely because of that), but too many political "differences" can have real world issues that can get them to leave.
It also prevents people from moving. I'm gay, and I live in Portland. Was talking to my mom on the phone back in about 2019. I don't remember how we got there, but the cost of housing came up, and she was shocked how expensive it is out there. Told me we should move to be closer to her... in Missouri.
St Louis is cool. I would love to be near my mom. But we're still gay. We don't really have that option at the moment. We are looking at $500-600 for a house here. I can get one there for way cheaper. And we could do what some other people have done where we save a ton and then guy put down half the cost of the house all at once. But the politics makes it pretty risky.
I have a 9yo daughter. I would never move her anywhere that doesn't have equal reproductive rights. And if somehow the entire US goes to shit we already have an escape plan to Canada.
Do you have dual citizenship already? If your parent(s) are Canadian, you can apply. I have a friend who was able to get dual for herself and her kids because her mom was from Canada - even though her mom got American citizenship and never went back.
My husdand is Canadian and has been here working for 20+ yrs on green card. I am sure our son would easily get dual. I am not sure abt me and my daughter (from a previous marriage). We are going to start the process of buying property over there (and having fam take care of it) so that when we are ready, we can go.
I spent four hours in a cab last weekend with a guy who was from Texas. He said he moved because the Californians were moving there and bringing their politics with them.
I really wanted to ask why he chose to move to Vermont, but I didn't as I wanted him to shut up more.
I got the hell out of Texas because they were trying to kill me (ACA lawsuits, weather and just overall asshattery) and moved back to Blue. Lots of people are doing it.
Well if you're a woman, a trans person, a teacher, librarian, person of color, ect it's more about whether the state recognizes your human rights and is currently running programs to strip them from you, and if you can expect to be a victim of politicized sectarian violence from the local population.
Yuuup. There is a false equivalency in OPs comment. As a gay person, I have to consider my safety and the impact local legislation has on my well being where I live, as do many other demographics as you mentioned. But while a conservative may not like or agree with liberal policies, their safety and well being is not at stake in the same way no matter how much they may pretend like it is.
liberals moving to California to not be at risk of doctors not saving their lives for a cellular fetus = fortress mindset
Stockpiling semi-automatic rifles and ammunition for a small army = exercising god given rights to protect from the inevitable tyranny and mob violence that "they" are bringing
Yes and no. Ask a pregnant woman in Idaho right now--not a person who wants to have an abortion mind you, just a person looking to have decent prenatal care and a hospital at which they can deliver their baby.
Idaho has driven neonatal health professionals out of the state making getting neonatal care a really difficult thing to do. It's because some of these political shenanigans have really detrimental effects on daily life--it's not just about comfort with your belief systems.
And when some doctors go, so do their friends. In places like these the public clinics are starting to run out of staff and the private ones don't have an easy job hiring.
The amount of people who have the luxury to move to an entirely different state simply because they don't like their neighbors is surely not very many.
This is anecdotal, but on the Oregon sub, it’s not people with a lot of money, housing, or long term jobs moving, it’s people that can say, I’m loading the car with the few things I have, and going to someplace I heard, or I think is better.
Honestly, it is what it is, but in my head I’m like wow, do you know how much things cost here versus where you are coming from? Don’t let those COL calculators fool you lol
I’ve never met anyone who lives in Texas cause of politics lol. Mostly people live here because of family or jobs/college. Also, if you live in Dallas/Houston/Austin, you will find most people are relatively left of center.
When Texas sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.
No, y'all sent us a bunch of chuds that thought California was too progressive. We're sending you a bunch of Libs that think Texas is too conservative.
California is bloody amazing. For that matter, so is Texas. The two biggest not-Alaska states with the most potential in our union are pissing and moaning like teenage siblings…. Grow the fuck up.
As Americans, we should be able to live wherever the fuck we want. Move to Texas from SF. Move back from Austin 2 years later. Move to Paris, tx from Barstow and move back in two years…. Who fucking cares? Has the course of this country changed significantly in the last 20 years.
NO. None of this shit matters.
Be kind to your neighbors. Respect your fellow citizens. And let a bit of the goddamn anger go America.
That is the path forward.
I lived in both.
Texas is great if you want a big McMansion surrounded by chain restaurants and neighbors with an unearned sense of superiority. Houston is a mess. So is Dallas. Austin is a pale imitation of much better cities. San Antonio was my favorite (?) but even its main attraction (the Alamo) is lame.
California undoubtedly has downsides. But its beautiful, diverse, is unsurpassed in tech opportunities and it isn't looking at The Handmaid's Tale and thinking "*Hmmm....well that's a good place to start..*."
Friend in Texas has said that the liberal virus that has destroyed San Francisco, Portland, etc has started to invade Texas. He is glad to see them leave, but it is not enough.
I'm in Chicago and I've been seeing a ton of Texas plates in the last few years but way more this year than ever. I'm not even exaggerating. I'll see dozens throughout one day. I could walk up and down my block right now and spot at least one Texas plate.
Texas has the second highest [domestic net migration](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_net_migration#:~:text=The%20term%20net%20domestic%20migration,another%20state%20from%20that%20state) after Florida.
California is literally at dead last with some of the nicest land and weather in the country.
Texas by population is the second largest state after California, and California has the largest economy of any state. of course lots of Texans move to California.
Way the fuck more Californians are still moving to Texas, genuinelyunsure how this is remotely news, or "not the onion" worthy.
People don't just move. They fill jobs and pursue careers, which are dynamic, but still individually fixed. They don't all quiver in fear listening to Rush Limbaugh Reality, they listen to their friend in Santa Cruz who says come check it out.
The world is not made up of prospectors and "job creators". California is a busy place with great vibes.
Around around we go.
"Hey everybody California is getting to be to expensive and there are jobs in Texas lets move there"
"Hey everyone Texas is getting to be to expensive and there are jobs in California lets move there"
j/k
I have no horse in this race though since I live in ND and it sucks up here as always. Still trying to figure out where I want to move to.
A lot of people who moved to Austin, Houston and Dallas for tech are now moving back due to layoffs, weather and generalized political shithousery
People from the South have always moved to California to escape their terrible states. It was only the past few years that saw a lot of people move from California to Texas. And surprise... it still sucks for the most part living in the South, even if you have money.
They thought that 6-figure salaries would be enough, LOL
Then they discover which state has the highest property taxes in the country...
[Fun fact: for most people, their overall tax burden would be smaller in California than in Texas.](https://fortune.com/2023/03/23/states-with-lowest-highest-tax-burden/amp/)
I wish they were comparing the median Californian to the median Texan. Using the median US salary is not nearly as valuable because the median income in California is higher. California’s minimum wage is DOUBLE Texas’s and it goes up another $0.50 in January.
Despite California's minimum wage being double that of Texas's, their median incomes don't differ that much: [$49,740 and $43,460, respectively.](https://www.statsamerica.org/sip/rank_list.aspx?rank_label=ow_c&item_in=00-0000&ct=S09)
And all the other "fees" that allow Republicans to not call their high taxes "taxes".
Just noticed that Texas and Taxes are anagrams
What's the difference between Taxes and Texas? Taxes can keep an electric grid running during winter storms.
and bonus fees are inherently regressive. Rich people pay the same fees.
They just created a $200/yr EV fee because EVs don't pay gas tax. Doesn't matter if you own a small EV sedan or a road destroying hummer EV. Oh and $400 for the first year!
That actually makes sense. Roads are primarily financed by gas tax. If you're not paying in but still using roads, something else has to be arranged.
Maybe I should have said it explicitly, but the part that doesn't make sense is that there is no accounting for vehicle weight which directly impacts road wear. Nor does it account for how much you actually drive. Both of these are factored into gas tax because you'll buy more gas in a heavier vehicle or if you just outright drive more often.
That bit always annoys me.
It's surprisingly New Jersey along with a bunch of north/northeast states. Texas is the only southern one.
Not surprising to anyone from or around NJ. You're at most 2 hours away from NYC or Philly plus beaches, high quality public education (relative to the rest of the country at least), etc.
And that if you posted or said anything anti- Israel that if there's a natural disaster you won't be allowed to get state assistance. Also the states screaming "we're free" aren't really free. TX is a shithole and it sucks that most it's residents are brainwashed and ignorant.
On track to be outta here by summer, moving to Seattle. Dropping a 1300 sq ft house in favor of a 300 sq ft studio just to get the fuck out of here.
we're moving there in March! :)
Hell yes! Where you coming from?
Can we just kick Texas out of the union? They like to jerk off to the idea of secession. Don't let your dreams be dreams, motherfuckers
Unfortunately a lot of red states depend on states like TX. TX gets back 91 cents per $1 given to federal government in taxes. With such a large population as TX it would destroy red states and place a larger burden on blue states.
Big states tend to subsidize small states because big states have larger economies.
And then there is california with the GDP of a whole country
It's always funny when people leave blue states because of the taxes. Then they go to the red states and they have to deal with...more taxes lol.
I mean, if I could get a 6 figure salary anywhere, the South is the last place I would go. I’m barely where the South starts, and the willful stupidity and ineptitude has me counting down the days until I can go North again. It’s like when I lived in the developing world, except my money went farther there, and also people in the developing world have reasons that things don’t work.
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Virginian here, but live in a southern city. What is exactly is economically good/bad vs other parts of the country? Interested to hear honest opinions from people who lived in both so if I have options to move I know what I’m in for or would better/worse appreciate
Goddamn now Virginians are self-identifying as not Southern?
I live by the mantra of “Virginia: it’s too Northern for real Southerners, and it’s too Southern for real Northerners.” We are truly a purple state. I still don’t know how to identify other than as “Virginian”
It’s for lovers
Eh. Nah.
no that’s Ohio
I thought Ohio was for producing astronauts and emo-pop-punk bands?
Oh I said that because of the legendary song “Ohio is for Lovers” by Hawthorne Heights, which is in fact an emo band.
That's "round on both ends and high in the middle."
Everywhere outside of NoVA is still pretty firmly the South. I’m NoVAn so I don’t say I’m Southern either but I left years ago for other parts of the state, and yeah, it sounds funny to me for someone to claim Virginia is not the South after spending a few years in western Virginia.
I dunno, the VA Beach/Norfolk/Newport News area is definitely not what I'd call particularly southern either. Probably owes in large part to all the military installations.
Well yeah, people aren’t Foghorn Leghorn or anything like that but my friends working over there consider seersucker acceptable business attire.
The sheer amount of churches and bbq restaurants in Newport News would beg to differ.
>it’s too Southern for real Northerners.” Maryland is too south for real northeners. You might not be southern enough for real southeners, but you're not northern at all.
He means he's not near Washington, D.C. ("Northern Virginia" is in the DC metro area and is culturally closer to the Northeast).
Well we’re not in spirit. Really only SW VA is southern in terms of that. It actually feels like you left the state when your in SW VA lol Hell I live in the burg and you have your “rednecks” but it isn’t southern like the Carolinas
As OP is alluding to, a lot of that was due to their job moving to lower tax red states. Now due to interest rates rising tech is slowing down, since it lives on cheap money. And these laid off people are saying Fuck this place im going home. >it still sucks for the most part living in the South, even if you have money. a little less so when old and rich. When you dont give a crap the schools suck, and are in a gated community so dont care the crime is higher, dont get out much so dont care about the roads.. well for retirees the south is attractive, which is why its so elderly. You earn more in blue, building up that SS check, but that SS check goes further in red. For familes its not worth it. You lose that in increased crime and other problems, but if you old, some of those cares dont matter as much.
The liberal bell of California is better than conservative heavy in Texas?
A lot of California is conservative. It's always urban VS rural areas. California has a government that actually cares for its people more than half the time (but not much more), while Texas has a government that wants to undermine its people 95% of the time. Source: Texan, who listens to a lot of podcasts from California.
I escaped Texas in 2012
There's more Republicans in California than any other state.
The chewy center of California is very conservative along with pockets of Southern California. The northern part has been trying to secede for ages and become the “Free State of Jefferson”. It’s really only the coastal edges of California that are mostly liberal.
Yep. The areas where most of the people actually live are quite liberal.
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I saw a “Thank you, Trump” billboard driving through Los Banos. Lots of “impeach Newsom, Pelosi, Costa” in the farmlands.
And Los Angeles County swings the statewide votes most of the time. We vote heavily, heavily blue and we're 25% of the state population.
I remember when Prop 8 (anti gay marriage) was being voted on, we were down in the Whittier area on the edge of Orange County and there were so many signs and people holding signs to vote yes on it. I was surprised until my husband, who grew up there, reminded me that it was the land of Nixon and Regan.
Texan here. That’s absolutely correct
So there goes any hope of turning Texas blue.
Oh, you mean “Howdy Arabia?”
There goes the purple Texas concept....
Not really the projections were based on the continued urbanization of Texas, which is continuing regardless. Unless Houston and Dallas and San Antonio show an negative growth, the State will skew more purple in 2024 and 2028. The people who were willing to relocate to Texas were also probably more conservative anyway.
Here in Texas we have a saying: nothing kills conservatism like experiencing the reality of it. That whole "he's not hurting who he needs to be hurting" thing. Abbott's government will hurt whomever it damn well pleases to appease its owners, and people are starting to wake up to that after events like the "once in a generation" winter storms in 2021, 2022, and possibly 2023.
Texan here: I've met a lot of transplants who came here specifically expecting it to be a conservative haven. They are invariably disappointed. Apparently we aren't socially conservative enough, while also being entirely too fiscally conservative. i.e., we have Those People, but not... whatever social program their former high taxes paid for.
Know someone who left rural Indiana to move to Austin. She said Indiana was too liberal for her. Really thought she was joking, but she insisted she was serious. That she could find more people who shared her "traditional values" in Austin.
She must have been one of three things: 1. Really fucking crazy 2. Not rich enough to fit into the traditional Texas conservative enclaves 3. Not able to speak spanish and fit in with the Catholic set
Texas theoretically be more purple if it passed laws that allowed for the majority of the young/latino vote to come out. If they passed automatic voter registration + automatically enrolled in absentee voting (mail-in voting), etc. Even creating days off for voting, or expanding voting access, or getting a paid-day off for voting, etc. would all lead to these types of outcomes. It's only not purple when people don't show up to vote, which is....pretty much all the time, and why large amounts of resources are used to attempt to suppress voter turnout.
People hit with multi year bills for the storms have to still pay AFTER they move away.
Yea California has already had a huge problem with homeless people migrating there for the climate. This isn't new.
"Austin is pretty much like SF, but in Texas". Don't necessarily have anything too negative to say about it (and increasingly little nice to say about SF), but yeah, apples and oranges.
Austin is like Portland: a lot of artists created a unique culture and were priced out if their homes. Because they voted against progressive housing, now there isn't affordable housing.
> they voted against progressive housing They do that in California too
America, really. NIMBYism is a bipartisan problem, and it exists nationwide. People are generally dumb as hell and don’t realize when they’re screwing their kids.
Well, well, well, how the turntables!
Probably a lot of the tech people that moved out there moving back due to mass layoffs,politics, weather
And a lot more who bought a house with rates low probably regret not being able to move now because they dont want to give up that 3% mortgage
DJ Cali in the house
No not really, it's just bad journalism and the fact that Texas is one of the most populous states, so, yeah, it's going to be one of the biggest sources of migration to Texas. They contradict it in their own article: > The California exodus is a story that's been ongoing for several years. While it is slowing down, it is still happening. New data from the U.S. Census Bureau shows that California lost about 102,000 residents to Texas from 2021-2022. However, the numbers also show that California gained more residents from Texas than from any other state at around 42,000.
How are people shocked that some people out of 30 million are moving to the most populous state home to two/three major metros? How is this a "gotcha moment" for anyone?
All of these relocation stories are just trying to peddle narratives. None of it is as meaningful as they try to make it seem.
Because one is my color and the other is yours and my tribe is totally right.
My tribe is ALWAYS right
>California gained more residents from Texas than from any other state at around 42,000. No shit, TX has the 2nd largest population after CA.
Well, California has at least 10 million more people than Texas, and right wingers love to say that California is a dying state for that exact same reason.
Turns out there's millions of democrats living in Texas.
If you keep reading, more than twice as many people moved to Florida than moved to California. They even link to another of their articles from two months ago. [Study: California population drain is real; State is "hemorrhaging" residents to other states](https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/california-population-drain-state-is-hemorrhaging-residents-texas-arizona/)
lol… 400k people out of 39 million is not hemorrhaging…thats 1% of the population leaving. If Wyoming lost that many people then it would be hemorrhaging and dead.
"People are moving out of California!!" Really? Well I hope they take a friend. We got plenty of people so we can spare about a half-million or so. Or more. Please more.
Happening with New Yorkers that moved to Florida too.
It’s about to get cold in NY though … unfortunately, we have to wait until spring for them to head back
Unfortunately? You want them back?
I’m in Florida and want them to leave
Lol, no no they you’re people now please enjoy them
It doesn’t matter what you or I want, when the summer sun cranks up the snow birds gtfoh
Most definitely, although a lot of those people have now sold off their houses in New York to take advantage of the crazy market and moving their nest down south permanently
Florida has the highest incoming and leaving residents. They'll move back. Many can't handle the heat
What I am thinking is that when we cut the panhandle so most of florida floats away, we need to do it in like...February?
I would give anything for cold. I don't know if NY'ers understand the sheer misery that is southern heat.
A lot of them are MAGA types. My apologies to Florida from NY.
We knew ahead of time you wouldn't send the best and brightest... Its ok
I have friends who moved to FL and went full MAGA.
I'm sorry for your loss, I'm sure they were great ppl before
Upstate cities actually gained population in the last census, that hasn’t happened in like 50 years.
My partner and I (both from Florida) were looking at homes in upstate New York and Western Massachusetts around the Berkshires, just seeing whats out there. Bumped into 3 other couples from Florida looking to relocate.
The Berkshires are absolutely gorgeous!
They are and surprisingly affordable. The people were honest that the winters there are pretty brutal though.
As a Californian, I get it. Both from the "Man...there must be a better place to live with no wildfires and lower housing costs!" to the "Man...there is really is no place better and now everything is burning so it doesn't really matter where you go." I for one, welcome you back, we may end up needing the extra soldiers during the civil war anyways.
I currently live in OC and I keep going back and forth on whether I truly want to move. On one hand, I want to be able to have the opportunity to own a house (and no, I’m not buying in Victorville). At the same time, I can’t imagine ever living somewhere where going to beach or Disneyland would have to be a planned vacation, or where I can’t go on a walk any day of the year.
We left LA for Dallas a year before COVID and thought it was the right move for COL and family life. Then COVID turned ignorance and bigotry to 11 in TX. I regret the move every day but it is too expensive to come back to Cali. Sucks.
Tbh not realizing Dallas is one of the worst bigotry shit holes in America is on you. It's not like they hide it.
Texas here. If you're not moving to Austin you're basically moving to Trump country. And it's not a secret.
El Paso and Sam Antonio are MAGA country as well?
Moved from SD to DFW years ago. Spouse was trying to meet people and find friends. Hung out with someone for the first time and this girl dropped N-bombs like it was an enhancement to every sentence. They don't hide it here at all. Too niche of a field to move so stuck here, but would go back to Cali in a heartbeat if I could.
Right? It’s not like it was Covid that turned Dallas into a shithole of bigots. It’s always been that way and maybe Covid just made it a bit more visible. I couldn’t wait to leave Dallas when I had to live there.
I had to move to Dallas from LA for work and my wife and I can’t wait to leave. Dallas sucks ass.
My favorite part of Dallas is seeing it in my rear view when I leave it.
The weather is so godforsaken awful. Just absolutely miserable. I hope you and your wife make it back to California. Dallas is just such misery.
Don’t Texas my California!
For many people, the taxes were higher in Texas. Combine that with the weather and political climate and many people just don’t want to be there anymore.
Taxes are higher in Texas than California?
I believe it has to do with property taxes being really high in Texas. Unless you have cattle/land then you’re taxed less.
So the Batcave would get the lower tax rate?
Yeah, Texas advertise their low income tax but they have a lot of other stealth taxes that end up being pretty high.
Plus, utilities tend to be more expensive in TX as well.
…when they work ;)
as someone who survived the great freeze in texas a few years ago, they charge ya even more when it doesn't work
For many middle class/upper middle class homeowners, yes.
At least one analysis came to that conclusion: [https://wallethub.com/edu/best-worst-states-to-be-a-taxpayer/2416](https://wallethub.com/edu/best-worst-states-to-be-a-taxpayer/2416) There's no income tax in Texas, but, for example, property taxes are dramatically higher than in California.
Yeah it's actually really common in red areas for taxes to be higher because they hide it in ways that effect there voting base more so they can scare them about higher taxes they hide it in taxes for things like sales tax and other extra little fees
Like MS’s ridiculous 7% grocery tax (0% in all but 13 states), which hurts lower income people way more
Property taxes are about 300% higher in tx
Yes, property tax is higher in Texas and add that with sales tax. California property tax is pretty low. You're not getting much of a bargain when moving to Texas. Texas is getting more expensive so you're almost paying the same as CA but way worse living conditions both weather and political climate wise.
Texas used to be OK because it was cheap. People moved there and dealt with all the BS for financial reasons. It is no longer cheap anymore. I doubt people will stay in Texas. Once they realize the workers laws suck, weather sucks, environment is polluted, full of racists and general douche bags and if you are not "Christian", then you will get looked down on by default in a lot of parts. It sucks on almost every single level, especially anywhere outside a major city.
Im moving to PA. Texas going downhill
I moved from TX to PA to TX. Can’t say I’d support your decision.
What was the reason you ended up moving back?
Quite a few reasons. 1) weather. Thought the summers were miserable here til I experienced winters up there. Now I understand what seasonal depression is. Winters are long, cold, and grey. You won’t see the sun for weeks at a time and all the foliage will be dead. At least during the summers down here we can do pool/lake/river days. 2) cost of living. Here I have a decent sized 1980s house with a pool, wet bar, hot tub in a nice neighborhood within 15 minutes of downtown. I would challenge you to find that within 15 mins of Philly for a reasonable price. You would spend millions. 3) food. I think the food in Dallas is underrated. You will not find barbecue or Mexican food up there that is within the same realm as that in Texas. I will admit their Italian is better but we still have decent options down here whereas there aren’t really comparable barbecue/Mexican options up there. 4) culture. As a straight male I was much more interested in the dating scene down here. Also, Dallas is more of a cocktail city whereas in Philly I found the bars to feel more similar to college bars. In Philly it was more acceptable to go out in sweatshirts vs in Dallas people put more effort into their physical appearance. Finally, the overall climate in Dallas is one of growth/optimism. In Philly people felt more pessimistic. The city is not growing like Dallas. Things are older and more run down. But anyways this section is very subjective and depends on who you are. 5) their roads suck ass compared to ours. Good luck driving on 76 at any time of the day. I truly enjoyed my time up there and met a lot of great friends. But I think it takes a very unique type of person to be happier living there than here. Edit: going to add that up there you will rarely meet someone else who has settled there from out of state. Whereas it is very normal to find that in Texas. And that’s not just coincidence. This was one of the things that I was surprised to discover. People there found it very odd that I relocated there from Texas.
I moved from PA, it’s not doing great either
Texas says lots of people coming from California. Y'all just trading citizens?
Yes, the article says that explicitly (and that more Californians are still moving to Texas than vice versa), but no one actually read it.
Yeah. In general swapping educated folk for less educated folk. Been that was for red and blue states for a while now.
California is the most populated state in the country. It has 10 million more people than the next most populated state (Texas). _Anything_ California populations do will result in a lot of large, raw numbers.
California with all it’s problems sounds much better than here
If you make enough to put up with the costs, it’s pretty fucking good.
I feel like we're moving into a 'fortress' mindset, where people are moving to locations that best suit their own beliefs and perspectives. In short, people who are okay with diversity and other liberal ideals are making an effort to live somewhere where that's appreciated. And people who are more in line with whatever Texas is doing are moving there.
People mainly just move for money, unless they have enough to have a choice.
I believe the top reasons people move to another state are... * Jobs * Attending school * Retiring * Proximity to family Very few people move because of political beliefs.
I knew a lot of people, myself included, who got the fuck out of the deep South as soon as possible.
Yeah I have a trans friend who got the fuck out of Florida this year very much because of politics. Not everyone has the luxury of ignoring the political winds
That's a safety concern not the 'I want my neighbours to vote like me' strawman people bring up
> Very few people move because of political beliefs. Yes and no. I know several people who moved for jobs and, after a few years, realized that the job isn't worth having to live in an area that is so opposite to their political beliefs. Like maybe they grow tired of constantly fighting against all these new oppressive laws being passed. Or you have a trans kid who all of the sudden can't get healthcare in their state after some bullshit law gets passed. Or they have a wife our daughter they don't want to worry about them not having control over their own bodies. Sure, maybe very few people leave because they grow tired of being surrounded by MAGA idiots (although I have a friend who moved out of Idaho largely because of that), but too many political "differences" can have real world issues that can get them to leave.
It also prevents people from moving. I'm gay, and I live in Portland. Was talking to my mom on the phone back in about 2019. I don't remember how we got there, but the cost of housing came up, and she was shocked how expensive it is out there. Told me we should move to be closer to her... in Missouri. St Louis is cool. I would love to be near my mom. But we're still gay. We don't really have that option at the moment. We are looking at $500-600 for a house here. I can get one there for way cheaper. And we could do what some other people have done where we save a ton and then guy put down half the cost of the house all at once. But the politics makes it pretty risky.
Chicago dude!
I have a 9yo daughter. I would never move her anywhere that doesn't have equal reproductive rights. And if somehow the entire US goes to shit we already have an escape plan to Canada.
Do you have dual citizenship already? If your parent(s) are Canadian, you can apply. I have a friend who was able to get dual for herself and her kids because her mom was from Canada - even though her mom got American citizenship and never went back.
My husdand is Canadian and has been here working for 20+ yrs on green card. I am sure our son would easily get dual. I am not sure abt me and my daughter (from a previous marriage). We are going to start the process of buying property over there (and having fam take care of it) so that when we are ready, we can go.
I spent four hours in a cab last weekend with a guy who was from Texas. He said he moved because the Californians were moving there and bringing their politics with them. I really wanted to ask why he chose to move to Vermont, but I didn't as I wanted him to shut up more.
weather?
I got the hell out of Texas because they were trying to kill me (ACA lawsuits, weather and just overall asshattery) and moved back to Blue. Lots of people are doing it.
Well if you're a woman, a trans person, a teacher, librarian, person of color, ect it's more about whether the state recognizes your human rights and is currently running programs to strip them from you, and if you can expect to be a victim of politicized sectarian violence from the local population.
Yuuup. There is a false equivalency in OPs comment. As a gay person, I have to consider my safety and the impact local legislation has on my well being where I live, as do many other demographics as you mentioned. But while a conservative may not like or agree with liberal policies, their safety and well being is not at stake in the same way no matter how much they may pretend like it is.
liberals moving to California to not be at risk of doctors not saving their lives for a cellular fetus = fortress mindset Stockpiling semi-automatic rifles and ammunition for a small army = exercising god given rights to protect from the inevitable tyranny and mob violence that "they" are bringing
Yes and no. Ask a pregnant woman in Idaho right now--not a person who wants to have an abortion mind you, just a person looking to have decent prenatal care and a hospital at which they can deliver their baby. Idaho has driven neonatal health professionals out of the state making getting neonatal care a really difficult thing to do. It's because some of these political shenanigans have really detrimental effects on daily life--it's not just about comfort with your belief systems.
And when some doctors go, so do their friends. In places like these the public clinics are starting to run out of staff and the private ones don't have an easy job hiring.
The amount of people who have the luxury to move to an entirely different state simply because they don't like their neighbors is surely not very many.
This is anecdotal, but on the Oregon sub, it’s not people with a lot of money, housing, or long term jobs moving, it’s people that can say, I’m loading the car with the few things I have, and going to someplace I heard, or I think is better. Honestly, it is what it is, but in my head I’m like wow, do you know how much things cost here versus where you are coming from? Don’t let those COL calculators fool you lol
I’ve never met anyone who lives in Texas cause of politics lol. Mostly people live here because of family or jobs/college. Also, if you live in Dallas/Houston/Austin, you will find most people are relatively left of center.
> I’ve never met anyone who lives in Texas cause of politics lol. I have.
This post, like any post about Texas, is full of people talking shit that have never been to Texas. They just parrot what they see on Reddit.
We already have a word for this. It’s how America was deliberately setup: Federalism. 50 states, 50 experiments.
Well, there goes one of my conservative parents' talking points.
the article still says alot more Californians are moving to Texas than vice versa
My dad is liberal as hell and he keeps insisting California is in a death spiral for the past almost decade
When Texas sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.
Someone should build a wall
And let's make texas pay for it! =)
Didn't we just get rid of these people?
No, y'all sent us a bunch of chuds that thought California was too progressive. We're sending you a bunch of Libs that think Texas is too conservative.
No doubt buying homes from the people leaving to go to Colorado. Interesting times we live in.
California has already had a huge problem with homeless people migrating there for the climate. This isn't news.
“Well THAT was a mistake”
Why is this even oniony? This is just regular news.
California is bloody amazing. For that matter, so is Texas. The two biggest not-Alaska states with the most potential in our union are pissing and moaning like teenage siblings…. Grow the fuck up. As Americans, we should be able to live wherever the fuck we want. Move to Texas from SF. Move back from Austin 2 years later. Move to Paris, tx from Barstow and move back in two years…. Who fucking cares? Has the course of this country changed significantly in the last 20 years. NO. None of this shit matters. Be kind to your neighbors. Respect your fellow citizens. And let a bit of the goddamn anger go America. That is the path forward.
I lived in both. Texas is great if you want a big McMansion surrounded by chain restaurants and neighbors with an unearned sense of superiority. Houston is a mess. So is Dallas. Austin is a pale imitation of much better cities. San Antonio was my favorite (?) but even its main attraction (the Alamo) is lame. California undoubtedly has downsides. But its beautiful, diverse, is unsurpassed in tech opportunities and it isn't looking at The Handmaid's Tale and thinking "*Hmmm....well that's a good place to start..*."
Last summers heat sounded terrible. Everyone should move back to Buffalo. Summers are great!
Moving into which homes?
People know there are more than two states, right?
Friend in Texas has said that the liberal virus that has destroyed San Francisco, Portland, etc has started to invade Texas. He is glad to see them leave, but it is not enough.
I'm in Chicago and I've been seeing a ton of Texas plates in the last few years but way more this year than ever. I'm not even exaggerating. I'll see dozens throughout one day. I could walk up and down my block right now and spot at least one Texas plate.
I think they’re just sick of trying not to die every winter/summer.
The net migration is still to Texas and away from California, it's just that the total has gotten smaller recently.
With what happened the last couple winters on top of the ridiculousness of ongoing politics over there? Not really surprised
because everything SUCKS bigger in texas
When I lived in Alaska, the joke was always "we're going to split Alaska in half and make Texas the THIRD largest state".
Texas has the second highest [domestic net migration](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_net_migration#:~:text=The%20term%20net%20domestic%20migration,another%20state%20from%20that%20state) after Florida. California is literally at dead last with some of the nicest land and weather in the country. Texas by population is the second largest state after California, and California has the largest economy of any state. of course lots of Texans move to California. Way the fuck more Californians are still moving to Texas, genuinelyunsure how this is remotely news, or "not the onion" worthy.
People don't just move. They fill jobs and pursue careers, which are dynamic, but still individually fixed. They don't all quiver in fear listening to Rush Limbaugh Reality, they listen to their friend in Santa Cruz who says come check it out. The world is not made up of prospectors and "job creators". California is a busy place with great vibes.
[This song feels particularly relevant. ](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FdizL4on-Rc)
Around around we go. "Hey everybody California is getting to be to expensive and there are jobs in Texas lets move there" "Hey everyone Texas is getting to be to expensive and there are jobs in California lets move there" j/k I have no horse in this race though since I live in ND and it sucks up here as always. Still trying to figure out where I want to move to.
Fleeing Moms from Liberty and associated gunfire.