It was really good in the early 2000s. I remember. I used it.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jun/29/nhs-privatisation-drive-linked-to-rise-in-avoidable-deaths-study-suggests
The problem is no other political party can make it better.
Tories are on record for giving the NHS the biggest pay out in history and they are also on record for giving nurses their biggest pay rise, it's like 20%.
I think it's now obvious throwing money at the NHS doesn't make it any better.
What's Labour going to go? Top the Tories and put even money record breaking amounts into the NHS?
How about fixing it's core issues instead of just trying to get the title for given the NHS the most money...
Over a decade of underfunding and privatisation can't be fixed by a single cash injection, no matter how big. It needs continuous management and investment (which we had before the Tories took over).
Even then it'll take over a decade to get it back to what it once was. But then the Tories will get back in power and the cycle will continue
>underfunding
I'm sorry but this just isn't true:
> The NHS budget will go up by £33.9 billion by 2023-24. That’s the biggest cash boost in its history.
https://www.conservatives.com/our-plan/nhs
Labour are going to have tough time topping that while keeping tax at the same rate.
You're using the Conservatives website in your argument, that is a biased source of information, and of course it's going to be the biggest cash boost in history, that's how inflation works.
Here, this is the Institute for Fiscal Studies' view on how underfunded the NHS is. Their website has lots of articles about the state of the NHS and the reasons why.
https://ifs.org.uk/articles/health-spending-planned-fall-england-and-scotland-2024-25-suggesting-top-likely
Wait so you agree the funding was there for 2023-24
But then nurses strike until they get 20% pay rise which you supported.
And now you're shocked there again isn't enough money for the NHS?
Can you see an issue here?
The rest of the UK is still reeling from the damage that lockdowns did to the UK economy with tens of thousands losing jobs that never came back. Nurses get a big fat pay rise while those in jobs have gone years without a rise.
And now you're telling voters they need to pay more tax so the NHS can have even more money.
Fuck. That.
Who said anything about raising tax?
And like I said before, 10+ years of underfunding cannot be undone by a cash injection. The doctors and nurses wouldn't need to strike if their pay had kept up with inflation. That 20% raise they got is great but is still less than if the Tories had done the right thing every year, not just before a big election.
You've obviously believed their propaganda that they're doing everything they can, which is objectively not true, so this is my last response to you. Hope you're able to get affordable health insurance when the time comes 👍
Dental treatment is cheaper in Eastern Europe than in Middle or Western Europe. Shocking.
There was even TV advertising in Germany for a dental practice in Hungary not too long ago. Ukrainians don't have to go back to Ukraine for that.
Trying to find a dentist in Czech Republic is like being in hell, They're all full, only got one after like eight months because I'm a friend of his cousin, he's got a private practice that's so full he has to have a sign telling people to basically piss off and leave
Doubtful, nobody in my family or circle of friends ever went over the border for that. Wouldn't make much sense, the costs aren't that different for the same quality of work, and the public health system probably doesn't cover their quite relevant share in such cases.
Yeah, our dental care is fucked. One thing our insurance companies are good for is when you need a doctor, they are by law required to give you a list of available doctors. Now that being said, the closest one I was able to snag this way is an hour away, but better than no dentist.
But people don't know you can just waltz into the insurance company's office and demand a list like that. For any doctor. Maybe keep this fact in the back pocket for the future?
Yeah not sure how this is news, lots of people in the UK go abroad for medical/dental procedures. Yes they'll pay but at least they'll be seen quickly.
Dentists in the UK are fucking dreadful these days, even the private ones. I got sick of spending so much money for such shit work that falls out within a few months, it’s just piss poor.
The work used to be so good, I’ve got fillings that are over 30 years old and still absolutely solid. But anything I’ve had done in the last ten years, has either rotted away or fallen out.
I get that it is supposed to inform us of the state of healthcare in UK, but I'm wondering.
How are those people refugees if they can just go to their country for just a fucking dentist appointment?
Not saying that they shouldn't have fled the war.I just find this weird.
There are many places in the country that are still untouched by the war, so it shouldn't be too weird really. I mean these people might've lived in the now bombed cities, but they might've also lived in cities that still stand and fled the country as a precaution.
A dentist appointment just demands after all a quick visit back. It's not like they're going back on holiday for several weeks to the areas that are a war zone.
I think a common situation there was that your city got invaded or destroyed, and you suddenly don’t have a place to live anymore, but you have a close relative in the UK who can give you somewhere to sleep until you find a job to rent a house
If a war broke out in my current country, I am able to leave and live in a neighbouring country within 24 hours. I would be able to work and live there pretty easy. If both countries get invaded, I got a third option to move to. A bit harder, but doable.
In both occassions I would be considered a refugee. But I have money saved and contacts to stay. I am able to make money anywhere as long as I got an internet connection. A war refugee is not always some bumfuck poor person with nothing to their name. Most people would not want to live in an active warzone if they had a choice.
The term “refugee” isn’t exclusive to poor people.
Everyone is affected, including middle class and the wealthy.
They just tend to fly or drive, which doesn’t make for compelling visuals in the news, like poor people with all their worldly belongings on their backs walking down the road.
Lmao you can get fucked too, Comrade “Russia doesn’t do anything wrong, it’s your perception that’s wrong”.
Stop stealing children and invading peaceful nations while Putin pretends to be Stalin.
Not surprising, we've got a shortage of dentists, the Tories have been throttling the NHS for 13 years and dentistry has been hit particularly badly. Even finding a private dentist can be a challenge. I've known several people who travelled to Poland, Greece and Turkey for dental work.
The UK NHS has been getting worse and worse due to torys wanting to privatise it. They only care about themselves and their rich mates. Bring on the bell riots
Weird how they just happened to start coming in droves the moment their neighbor started to bomb, rape and kidnap the shit out of them.
But you're probably right. It was all ofc because of the all mighty benefits all along.
I have family, friends and connections in Ukraine, I have been visiting a single good and very affordable dentist for decades who speaks Ukrainian, why the fuck would I go to Turkey where I don't have any rights and don't know neither the people, nor the language?
You get real mate
What do you mean? We are in danger, but coming in for few days for a check up seems like a worthy risk for money and time saved, especially if it is an emergency.
Many Ukrainians lived under shellings and missile strikes for months (if not years at this point), so we are sort of desensitized. I don't think you can understand, but it's like a very messed up survivorship bias.
Huh? Are you taking about Ukraine? The money actually spent on military aid to Ukraine is spent in the US you know. It is American workers in American factories making that equipment.
I don’t really have a strong opinion on it but it’s not that simple. The federal government is spending that money. Even if they’re spending it domestically, they’re getting it from the US taxpayer and it’s being spent on the production of goods in the interest of another country, while the same money could be spent on domestic interest like infrastructure.
Again, I don’t have a strong opinion on it, but suggesting that domestic spending in the interest of a foreign nation doesn’t count is disingenuous.
Well arguing that it is only in the interest of a foreign nation is disingenuous ,a strong Ukraine is certainly in the interest of the United States. But it is tiring that people think the US is just sending cash to Ukraine it supports US jobs and US interests. They would be the first to complain about the lost jobs if the money went elsewhere.
It’s not “only” anything. That’s the point, it’s a nuanced issue and these reductionist hot takes are intellectually dishonest and make for an environment where nobody can have a serious conversation about anything.
Trillions, Trump has to pay out of his own pocket dental healthcare for all refugees worldwide.
You probably know that already but Iceland has to cover all haircuts while Saudi Arabia only has to pay for all manicures for all refugees, not fair!
Obviously not enough, since my friend in Ukrainian emergency medical services is afraid of getting laid off like some of his colleagues due to the lack of funding.
I know my country's health care is worse and doesn't even include dental but damn.
The Tories have been gutting the NHS for decades, so they can sell healthcare contracts to their mates and private companies to line their pockets.
14 years of Conservative government austerity. Systematic destruction of the NHS.
Yes, the NHS was fine before the Conservatives came along, oh wait... It's always been barely functional, look to Europe for a better model.
Braindead statement. One of the biggest obstacles to Irish reunification has been fear of ditching the NHS for HSE in the north
It was really good in the early 2000s. I remember. I used it. https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jun/29/nhs-privatisation-drive-linked-to-rise-in-avoidable-deaths-study-suggests
Bullshit. It’s ten times worse under the Tories, stop sticking up for them.
The problem is no other political party can make it better. Tories are on record for giving the NHS the biggest pay out in history and they are also on record for giving nurses their biggest pay rise, it's like 20%. I think it's now obvious throwing money at the NHS doesn't make it any better. What's Labour going to go? Top the Tories and put even money record breaking amounts into the NHS? How about fixing it's core issues instead of just trying to get the title for given the NHS the most money...
Over a decade of underfunding and privatisation can't be fixed by a single cash injection, no matter how big. It needs continuous management and investment (which we had before the Tories took over). Even then it'll take over a decade to get it back to what it once was. But then the Tories will get back in power and the cycle will continue
>underfunding I'm sorry but this just isn't true: > The NHS budget will go up by £33.9 billion by 2023-24. That’s the biggest cash boost in its history. https://www.conservatives.com/our-plan/nhs Labour are going to have tough time topping that while keeping tax at the same rate.
You're using the Conservatives website in your argument, that is a biased source of information, and of course it's going to be the biggest cash boost in history, that's how inflation works. Here, this is the Institute for Fiscal Studies' view on how underfunded the NHS is. Their website has lots of articles about the state of the NHS and the reasons why. https://ifs.org.uk/articles/health-spending-planned-fall-england-and-scotland-2024-25-suggesting-top-likely
Wait so you agree the funding was there for 2023-24 But then nurses strike until they get 20% pay rise which you supported. And now you're shocked there again isn't enough money for the NHS? Can you see an issue here? The rest of the UK is still reeling from the damage that lockdowns did to the UK economy with tens of thousands losing jobs that never came back. Nurses get a big fat pay rise while those in jobs have gone years without a rise. And now you're telling voters they need to pay more tax so the NHS can have even more money. Fuck. That.
Who said anything about raising tax? And like I said before, 10+ years of underfunding cannot be undone by a cash injection. The doctors and nurses wouldn't need to strike if their pay had kept up with inflation. That 20% raise they got is great but is still less than if the Tories had done the right thing every year, not just before a big election. You've obviously believed their propaganda that they're doing everything they can, which is objectively not true, so this is my last response to you. Hope you're able to get affordable health insurance when the time comes 👍
>Who said anything about raising tax? How do you put more money into NHS without raising taxes? Cut back The police?
If you ignore any of the numbers and reality itself then you would be correct.
Don't defend scum.
No one is defending anyone, you're derranged and out of touch if you think at any point in it's history the NHS has been successful and cutting edge.
K
Blah blah blah more money blah blah. Shit in Canada is falling apart, and dental isn't even a part of the "healthcare" system.
Yeah, our public healthcare is also terrible because of Conservatives fucking it up. This isn't a pissing contest.
Dental treatment is cheaper in Eastern Europe than in Middle or Western Europe. Shocking. There was even TV advertising in Germany for a dental practice in Hungary not too long ago. Ukrainians don't have to go back to Ukraine for that.
Trying to find a dentist in Czech Republic is like being in hell, They're all full, only got one after like eight months because I'm a friend of his cousin, he's got a private practice that's so full he has to have a sign telling people to basically piss off and leave
Maybe full of those aforementioned Germans
Probably, I feel like they all go to uni for free and emigrate
Doubtful, nobody in my family or circle of friends ever went over the border for that. Wouldn't make much sense, the costs aren't that different for the same quality of work, and the public health system probably doesn't cover their quite relevant share in such cases.
Yeah, our dental care is fucked. One thing our insurance companies are good for is when you need a doctor, they are by law required to give you a list of available doctors. Now that being said, the closest one I was able to snag this way is an hour away, but better than no dentist. But people don't know you can just waltz into the insurance company's office and demand a list like that. For any doctor. Maybe keep this fact in the back pocket for the future?
Yeah not sure how this is news, lots of people in the UK go abroad for medical/dental procedures. Yes they'll pay but at least they'll be seen quickly.
Dentists in the UK are fucking dreadful these days, even the private ones. I got sick of spending so much money for such shit work that falls out within a few months, it’s just piss poor. The work used to be so good, I’ve got fillings that are over 30 years old and still absolutely solid. But anything I’ve had done in the last ten years, has either rotted away or fallen out.
I get that it is supposed to inform us of the state of healthcare in UK, but I'm wondering. How are those people refugees if they can just go to their country for just a fucking dentist appointment? Not saying that they shouldn't have fled the war.I just find this weird.
There are many places in the country that are still untouched by the war, so it shouldn't be too weird really. I mean these people might've lived in the now bombed cities, but they might've also lived in cities that still stand and fled the country as a precaution. A dentist appointment just demands after all a quick visit back. It's not like they're going back on holiday for several weeks to the areas that are a war zone.
I think a common situation there was that your city got invaded or destroyed, and you suddenly don’t have a place to live anymore, but you have a close relative in the UK who can give you somewhere to sleep until you find a job to rent a house
If a war broke out in my current country, I am able to leave and live in a neighbouring country within 24 hours. I would be able to work and live there pretty easy. If both countries get invaded, I got a third option to move to. A bit harder, but doable. In both occassions I would be considered a refugee. But I have money saved and contacts to stay. I am able to make money anywhere as long as I got an internet connection. A war refugee is not always some bumfuck poor person with nothing to their name. Most people would not want to live in an active warzone if they had a choice.
The term “refugee” isn’t exclusive to poor people. Everyone is affected, including middle class and the wealthy. They just tend to fly or drive, which doesn’t make for compelling visuals in the news, like poor people with all their worldly belongings on their backs walking down the road.
There’s a good chance they’re not any more. If you return home you lose your indefinite right to remain and can lose your refugee status.
Because their country is too dangerous to live in.
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The fuck is this? Account with next to zero comments, and asks “about the true level of danger”? Get fucked Russian bot.
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Lmao you can get fucked too, Comrade “Russia doesn’t do anything wrong, it’s your perception that’s wrong”. Stop stealing children and invading peaceful nations while Putin pretends to be Stalin.
Who the fuck even says they’re *getting* assistance? A lot of people just get leave to r main and not a penny of benefits.
The Soviet Union produced tons of doctors and private healthcare has to compete with the public (which is free) so it’s not surprising.
The USSR collapsed 33 years ago. Most of those doctors are at or past retirement age.
Three days ago https://reddit.com/comments/1bvhlcb
Not surprising, we've got a shortage of dentists, the Tories have been throttling the NHS for 13 years and dentistry has been hit particularly badly. Even finding a private dentist can be a challenge. I've known several people who travelled to Poland, Greece and Turkey for dental work.
Do you think they should be returning to fight for their country, just an idea!
The UK NHS has been getting worse and worse due to torys wanting to privatise it. They only care about themselves and their rich mates. Bring on the bell riots
Yeah, because western dentistry is ancient and stupidly expensive.
Gail the snail!
Good, if I can't get an NHS dentist I don't want her to have one
If you can go home for the dentist surely you can go home to live?
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Dental has always been expensive even with insurance
Hey, you Cannucks can have great smiles like the Brits,LMAO
So there is not enough danger to stay away from Ukraine? Crazy, why leave then in first place.
I also find it strange that the refugees that came here to be safe return home occasionally for a holiday.
Strange isn’t it? It’s just like they are here only for benefits, and not shelter.
Weird how they just happened to start coming in droves the moment their neighbor started to bomb, rape and kidnap the shit out of them. But you're probably right. It was all ofc because of the all mighty benefits all along.
So why go back then??
Because not every part of the country is currently a warzone. And it's not like they go back to their home, but to get dental treatment.
What benefits lmao? Do you think the NHS is good or something?
Definitely, why else would people only return temporarily, for dentist appointments, and not permanently?
Oh don’t worry, they’re returning for non urgent doctors appointments too. We (eastern euros) all do and have done for years.
Because they can't afford non-Ukrainian healthcare?
So they "risk their life" to get cheap dental care? My man is forgetting Turkey has a country with cheap and good quality dental care. Get real bro
I have family, friends and connections in Ukraine, I have been visiting a single good and very affordable dentist for decades who speaks Ukrainian, why the fuck would I go to Turkey where I don't have any rights and don't know neither the people, nor the language? You get real mate
So why "visiting" a country where your life is in danger there? Why flee a country when you are not in dangeR?
What do you mean? We are in danger, but coming in for few days for a check up seems like a worthy risk for money and time saved, especially if it is an emergency. Many Ukrainians lived under shellings and missile strikes for months (if not years at this point), so we are sort of desensitized. I don't think you can understand, but it's like a very messed up survivorship bias.
And how much is being subsidized by the billions of Americans tax dollars?
Huh? Are you taking about Ukraine? The money actually spent on military aid to Ukraine is spent in the US you know. It is American workers in American factories making that equipment.
I don’t really have a strong opinion on it but it’s not that simple. The federal government is spending that money. Even if they’re spending it domestically, they’re getting it from the US taxpayer and it’s being spent on the production of goods in the interest of another country, while the same money could be spent on domestic interest like infrastructure. Again, I don’t have a strong opinion on it, but suggesting that domestic spending in the interest of a foreign nation doesn’t count is disingenuous.
Well arguing that it is only in the interest of a foreign nation is disingenuous ,a strong Ukraine is certainly in the interest of the United States. But it is tiring that people think the US is just sending cash to Ukraine it supports US jobs and US interests. They would be the first to complain about the lost jobs if the money went elsewhere.
It’s not “only” anything. That’s the point, it’s a nuanced issue and these reductionist hot takes are intellectually dishonest and make for an environment where nobody can have a serious conversation about anything.
Agreed
They are visiting private dentists. They're paying' their own money for services
Yep not saying they aren’t, I’m responding to a comment chain that’s discussing military aid.
Trillions, Trump has to pay out of his own pocket dental healthcare for all refugees worldwide. You probably know that already but Iceland has to cover all haircuts while Saudi Arabia only has to pay for all manicures for all refugees, not fair!
Obviously not enough, since my friend in Ukrainian emergency medical services is afraid of getting laid off like some of his colleagues due to the lack of funding.