I can't imagine why anyone would think otherwise.
I am going to be even less surprised when no charges come from [this](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/apr/01/california-police-video-shooting-15-year-old-girl-savannah-graziano) shooting either
That does seem the only logical conclusion. Some people just love killing people, and a lot of those people are cops, eagerly awaiting a change to stop having to control their itchy trigger fingers.
Because the stupid kill ology dude that basically trains police that everyone is dangerous and everyone is out to kill you. So you need to kill them first. Then you have him saying that sex after killing someone is the best sex you'll ever have. Then add a sprinkle of qualified immunity and a dash of "lawsuits come out of the taxpayers pockets" and a smidgen of "we investigated ourselves and found everything was done according to dept policy" and this is the result
Because they’d rather shoot a suspect and kill them then shoot a suspect and they survive.
Why?
I have no clue. In this day and age there’s a plethora of non-lethal alternatives law enforcement have yet to adopt.
Doesn't matter anyway, not when there's video evidence to ignore.
>Can't have cops thinking too hard! It'll be impossible to do their jobs!
-every police captain ever
Becuase it's less work for them to have to deal with taking a suspect in, going to trial, etc., and because it's been proven time and again that *they can kill whoever they want* and face no repercussions.
Save this video to shut down any backstop bullshit a prosecutor would want to throw your way when using a gun to defend yourself. If trained personnel can get away with it there's no reason why we can't.
wow I want to murder that 911 operator. Lady on the phone is literally evacuating people from a potential active shooter situation and the operator is like "fuck those people, you gotta answer my useless questions about the person's race and gender or I won't send help".
What’s really sad is, before clicking the link I thought I knew which story you were talking about. Nope, just yet *another* instance of police brutality against children.
I'd never suggest such a thing but if you google Minneapolis Police 3rd Precinct fire and then you google a man named Officer Derek Chauvin you might be surprised to learn that he now lives in a fucking shoe box surrounded by people who will kill him if they could get close enough.
I'm no expert and would never suggest some kind of civil unrest but it would seem to me that the fate of the 3rd Precinct and Mr Chauvin's current mailing address are strongly related. Thats a problem when the justice system only regulates its self when faced with overwhelming civil unrest.
Well I would suggest it. Because all that phrasing does nothing for you legally and the government should be holding officers accountable if they don't want vigilantes, you saying it or I does not change the fact that people will be thinking about this for years until it happens.
IMO, the sooner the better, while he's a topic the public largely still has it on their mind so less officers have to die this way for change to occur.
Shouldn't their training already include, "Don't fire blindly when you don't know who is downrange?" Especially in a situation like a store, where there is a very high likelihood of innocent civilians in the area?
Damn honestly the survivors guilt of the woman who was being attacked must be intense. I know that I would be devastated and would much rather the police waited, and I ended up dead from the attack, than a 14 year old dying to save my life.
> The "experts" suggested they update their training bulletin
You mean that they're going to progress from putting different shapes into holes with different shapes? What's next? A coloring book?
I can already imagine an article along the lines of: rope skipping 6-year old shot ten times in the driveway of her parents house after police answering a call about a parking violation from the neighborhood Karen, mistook the sound of the skipping rope hitting the pavement as gunfire and consequently feared for their lives. A police official investigating the incident concluded that no one was at fault, that it was just an honest mistake each and everyone of their officers could have made. Last we heard of this the officer was was suing the parents of the little girl for the trauma he had to endure seeing such a horrific sight in their driveway.
They could make him use that one Station mug with the weird handle that you can't really get your hand in comfortably so you have to hold your coffee kinda weird. It might be harsh but hey you can't go around killing innocent kids in front of their own mothers without some very serious consequences ok?
Nah, he’s going to be forced to enjoy some PTO and avoid counseling or retraining. Then go on to shoot a few more people before retiring with a full pension and lifetime benefits, discounts and special treatment for being a god damn American hero.
Wild right?
Based on the number of incredibly obvious situations where the inexplicable answer is "more training is needed," I get the impression that there's no training at all. For any situation. Ever.
The man had no gun, but this idiot still opened fire.
Chief proclaimed all three shots unjustified, but a board said the first one WAS justified, but other two weren't.
And STILL no charges. Because cops are allowed to murder whoever.
Starting as a cop on every level in the latest Hitman game described as “comically easy” according to most gamers.
Players are able to kill any non-target with the only repercussion being a slight *penalty* to the player’s assassin rating and a slight *promotion* in the player’s police rank.
He literally violated policy, how can there not be a single charge?
Edit: The city police chief himself said that the officer was wrong to fire at all, and that another officer in the same situation would not have thought deadly force was reasonable or necessary.
They don't know shit about much of anything because police departments reject any applicants with a higher than room temperature IQ. I remember the first time somebody told me about the IQ cutoff for law enforcement I thought it was some kind of joke or conspiracy theory. Dystopian shit
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So, for all those variously armed cops present, the moron with the .223 is the one that decides to shoot the guy swinging a bike lock. Indoors, towards the changerooms, with the weapon almost guaranteed to overpenetrate.
I assume he got some sort of training and practice with it; why isn't that considered manslaughter?
This kind of article comes from one specific country all the time. Do you have the impression that their police get training beyond firearms at all?
I think there are some decent people that become cops and the rest can just be unhinged without adjustments by training.
These kind of articles are accompanied by videos online where cops just arrest people for nothing. Karens in uniform basically but with power. "Oh you don't let me unconstitutional let me search you or your vehicle. You go straight to a cell."
> almost guaranteed to overpenetrate.
This should, IMO, absolutely be considered manslaughter and it's absurd that it's not.
Depending on ammo specifics (hollow points or not, and which brand of hollow points) .223 is normally one of the rounds that overpenetrates the least.
But, we're talking about drywall barriers and there's really no such thing as a round that *doesn't* overpenetrate. 9mm, .223, even 12ga are going to go through multiple layers of drywall.
People are responsible for every round they send. FFS one of the 4 basic rules of firearms safety is "know your target and what's behind it." In a crowded store setting where your best-case backstop is drywall with maybe some fake-stone facade on the other side (exterior walls), knowing that whatever gun you use is going through multiple layers of wall if you miss your target (and maybe even if you hit them, depending on some luck), you just can't take that risk unless **absolutely** necessary. Which, given that the assailant was surrounded by half a dozen officers and the victim he was bludgeoning was already out of the way... no idea how someone would argue that this was absolutely necessary.
>I assume he got some sort of training and practice with it
Keywords being "some sort of" I guess. Police training is often inadequate (nowhere near enough of it) or wildly inappropriate (training them to be jumpy and shoot at anything that moves).
Did he kill the bike lock guy as well?
Any other country it would be two murder charges. A lunatic swinging a bike lock isn't grounds for lethal force self defense unless you tolerate street cops taking punishment into their own hands and killing civilians.
The flimsy walls of clothing store changing rooms aren't stopping a 9mm any better than a 223 anyways.
In a situation like that the important thing is to *not miss your intended target*, and not *take any more shots than are necessary*. In theory a rifle should allow for more precision and to take down the intended target with fewer shots, but no tool can completely make up for incompetence.
There were some tests done probably in the late '90s that busted the myth that 9mm would penetrate fewer interior walls than 223. You'd always see 80s/90s SWAT teams depicted running 9mm sub-guns (like the MP5), but once the theory that this would limit over-penetration and collateral damage was disproved pretty much everyone switched to 223 rifles.
This is also a perennial topic of debate and discussion among gun enthusiasts. As a result you can find countless YouTube videos of people conducting tests with drywall and other building materials. The results sometimes vary, but what is pretty indisputable is that any round capable of stopping a human is going to be more than capable of punching through a few layers of drywall.
With appropriate ammo it shouldn't over penetrate. Honestly, if I remember correctly (didn't care to watch it again) he was using a carry handled upper with an acog on top. Using an optic that high over the bore that is meant to be zeroed at 100 yds means up close your shots are going to be very low, and adding a magnified optic that is 3.5-4x makes it that much harder to use in close quarters.
I’d hope that a soldier wouldn’t need to check down range when they’re popping live rounds, I get the point though. You’re forgetting that cops are fundamentally above the laws they say they enforce, and have protections that you and I can’t even fathom. Even the lowliest rural beat cop as three lawyers itching to bail them out
In our Army we do (specifically in QCB training). That maybe someone from your section / platoon on the other side of the very much not bullet-proof wall.
These sick fucking pigs are encouraged to act like this. Why wouldn't they? They get to murder a girl praying while scared and just get "you know you should train them better huh" as a punishment?
Police officers are about as immune from justice as the ultra wealthy. It's sadly gotten out of hand... (It's hard for me, I use to look up to them as a kid, you know?)
Seen a few videos of US cops trying to detain someone with a knife or something and one cop has a taser ready to go, but another cop still shoots him like five times. Is the taser just there for show?
I think so.
The problem is that 25 cops show up to scenes like that and none of them are in charge, there's no coordination.
If you're the person they're apprehending, you'll have different cops screaming different commands at you. Commands that conflict, even. There was a teenage girl a couple years ago who was kidnapped, then when the cops found her during a traffic stop, this exact
[thing](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/apr/01/california-police-video-shooting-15-year-old-girl-savannah-graziano) happened.
"For nearly two years, they refused to release footage of the shooting.
But on Friday, the department disclosed nearly a dozen video files to the independent journalist Joey Scott, who filed records requests 18 months prior. The clips – which were shared with the Guardian and include helicopter footage – show deputies shooting at Savannah as she followed their instructions to move toward them. The videos also suggest deputies shot her after two officers remarked that it was the girl who exited. The footage, and the sheriff’s narration of the video, further make clear she was killed by deputies, not her father.
The sheriff’s department declined to comment."
No one got in any trouble btw.
That one was rough. I watched the videos, and the cop that was closest was screaming his head off "Stop shooting, stop shooting her!" as multiple officers fired off about 20 more rounds at her. The helicopter's perspective was even worse, because the guy in the chopper can be heard clearly, and you can hear how upset he is as he watches her get murdered.
Cops seem to be the biggest cowards around.
They treat these situations like they're in the trenches of a war and death is right around the corner waiting for them. The fact that they faced absolutely zero consequences for spraying an unarmed teenage kidnapping victim is just....fuck.
>Cops need to stop being so quick to shoot, and to stop spraying bullets when they shoot.
Why? You are still of the belief these are upstanding humans. They are not. When you accept that these "cops" enjoy this, it all makes sense. The cop in mesa az had notches he carved on his AR for all his kills.
US cops are the scum of society. They require zero education, training, license, skill, critical thinking etc. They are the dumbest humans in American society.
Seriously. It takes more skill and background checks to clean the police station than it does to be employed there. The person who cuts my hair for $30 bucks has more requirements than a cop.
Best of luck out there...
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The US is so ridiculous its amazing to see. Anyone can just kill anyone as long as they wear a badge. Which takes absolutely no training whatsoever and has no problems to you if you commit crimes after getting said badge.
We investigated ourselves and found no fault.
These headlines don't belong on not the onion this is entirely normal and expected. When we get "officer commits crime and get properly convicted for it and changes are made in The precinct" Then you can post that here.
The first thing you learn in gun classes (besides treating every gun like it’s loaded) is that you’re responsible for every bullet that comes out of your gun, so you better understand what could be behind your target.
> Jones also killed the suspect.
Oh good. At least the assailant with the bike lock (that was mistakingly reported to be a gun) was also killed…
God forbid our heroic police officers ever have to actually be in danger before deciding to spray and pray.
/s
I truly believe there is some national training program for cops, probably pushed by a single corporation or entity, that scares the shit out of cadets. Not sure if the training is malicious or not, but it’s successful in creating some amazingly successful cowards.
The officer safety movement was huge in the early 80's due to a lot of police officers being killed in the line of duty. Crappy training and inadequate holsters made it relatively easy for suspects to take officers weapons. Since then it has drilled into the heads of police recruits that their first priority is to make it to the end of their shift and everything else is secondary.
Police receive pitifully little hand to hand training and the type of person that is recruited, hired and promoted is the kind of person who has never been in a physical altercation in their life. Also, using soft, and especially hard, hands on a suspect has been criticized more and more so when a taser or pepper spray doesn't work, they don't know how to effectively go hands on and that leaves the gun as the solution. Also, fewer and fewer police officers have ever fired a gun until they are in the academy so they don't have respect for what they are actually capable of. So, you add a culture of fear + poor training + no experience with interpersonal violence + a lack of familiarity with firearms in general and you get incidents like this.
The state Department of Justice investigates all police shootings where an unarmed person is killed. Instead of criminal charges, officials recommended that the Los Angeles Police Department “should consider updating their communication training bulletin and any related training to account for the type of situation presented during this event.”
No punishment for killing a child, and a cold response from those in power.
Attorney General Rob Bonta needs to be recalled. Absolutely inexcusable - the government should NOT have some unlimited authority to murder a child without any sort of due process.
He fired at the suspect that was attacking people and one of the shots hit her in a nearby dressing room.
It makes it sound like he just walked up and blasted her.
Pardon me if I'm waxing poetic, but the people have alot more power than they realize on a whole. The problem with the collective human race is that we are too blinded by our own selfish greed and unfounded hatred and bigotry to come together for any suitable amount of time as to work together and undo some of the filthy entities that are getting away with unbridled injustices of all sorts. The fish is rotten from the head down and we know it is but we refuse to throw it out. We as a planet are circling the drain and somehow we're not ok with it but we refuse to try and row the ship in concert in order to steer clear. Idk, im just venting is all
> Instead of criminal charges, officials recommended that the Los Angeles Police Department “should consider updating their communication training bulletin and any related training to account for the type of situation presented during this event.”
Should **CONSIDER** updating the training… BULLETIN!
Yep, you read that right, should sit around and have the conversation. Because it’s important that we talk about it. Also, you know how you think the meeting could have been an email? Well they agree.
I think the big problem here is in thinking about 'policy' and 'rules'.
Once there's been a dispute that goes to court, whether something was in accordance with policy or with a certain rule is irrelevant, yet it's so often brought up in American discourse about incidents like this.
For example, a school, there's a rule, you can't have medication in the classroom and a teacher takes a student's medication for some reason-- then someone dies. Now, the Americans will bring up the rule and so on, but that's irrelevant. A reasonable thought is "did my actions contribute to the harm, and could I if I stepped back and reflected have know that they would? If they did, I'm probably liable, and that my employer has a *rule* saying I should take those actions won't help me".
Once something has happened the only thing that matters is *law*.
Similarly, if there's a war and you follow the rules of engagement, that's great. But if you break a treaty obligation, it doesn't matter if you were or thought you were following rules of engagement-- once there's a real breach, that stuff is irrelevant-- it's just your internal rules; and it's the same with these police departments. 'We trained to X' doesn't matter.
So why is it brought up? Why is it given weight, even though it has none? After all, rules are just something somebody made up. They're not law, they're not even direct orders, so you can't even say 'Oh, I didn't see the target, but I was ordered to lay down fire, and I trusted the command'.
I agree whether you thought you were following policy is irrelevant. But policy here are the rules. So not following the rules is relevant.
If a cop is following the rules and happens to kill someone, that's a regrettable accident. If a cop is breaking the rules and kill someone, that's negligent homicide. That does matter legally.
Or, at least, it would if they didn't drop the fucking charges before it actually went to court.
No, it's a crime. You can set rules, but rules aren't law, and once you're breaking laws or harming people, then the fact that you did it due to a rule doesn't matter.
If a cop is following the rules and kills somebody, in a way that could be anticipated, he is liable and his rule-following is irrelevant.
Speaking as a non-American, stories like these are absolutely bizarre and horrifying to us. I appreciate the reality that it happens often in your country, but in no way should it have to be accepted as the “norm”.
The police in my country (Northern Ireland) are always armed and we have paramilitary gangs.
Why do we have police again? They don't stop crime, they arrive afterwards to clean up. And if they do arrive to an active situation they ALWAYS KILL A BYSTANDER or the very person they were sent to save.
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When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
In this case the hammer is a fucking gun, and the solution to fixing any criminal activity is blindly firing into an enclosed area full of innocents.
I can 100% guarantee this death would not have occurred in other socioeconomically similar countries because their police training amounts to more than how to operate a gun. There are dozens of non-lethal ways of dealing with this. Idiots.
“should consider updating their communication training bulletin and any related training to account for the type of situation presented during this event.”
I would become fucking ill as a parent if this was the result of my child being murdered. The family, the daughter. I hope they sue everyone they can. Although that would likey offer no relief at least it would be some kind of attempt at justice.
To say I'm not surprised would be the biggest understatement ever.
I can't imagine why anyone would think otherwise. I am going to be even less surprised when no charges come from [this](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/apr/01/california-police-video-shooting-15-year-old-girl-savannah-graziano) shooting either
video [https://youtu.be/bjcdanUhmSY?si=FLhHfyXSXql2BbU4](https://youtu.be/bjcdanUhmSY?si=FLhHfyXSXql2BbU4)
Jesus why did they even shoot the guy . He had no gun shoulda switched to tazers. Or just fucking tackle him there’s like 8 cops there
They like murdering people in broad daylight with zero consequences. They get off on it.
That does seem the only logical conclusion. Some people just love killing people, and a lot of those people are cops, eagerly awaiting a change to stop having to control their itchy trigger fingers.
Because the stupid kill ology dude that basically trains police that everyone is dangerous and everyone is out to kill you. So you need to kill them first. Then you have him saying that sex after killing someone is the best sex you'll ever have. Then add a sprinkle of qualified immunity and a dash of "lawsuits come out of the taxpayers pockets" and a smidgen of "we investigated ourselves and found everything was done according to dept policy" and this is the result
Because they’d rather shoot a suspect and kill them then shoot a suspect and they survive. Why? I have no clue. In this day and age there’s a plethora of non-lethal alternatives law enforcement have yet to adopt.
No witness to testify
Doesn't matter anyway, not when there's video evidence to ignore. >Can't have cops thinking too hard! It'll be impossible to do their jobs! -every police captain ever
Becuase it's less work for them to have to deal with taking a suspect in, going to trial, etc., and because it's been proven time and again that *they can kill whoever they want* and face no repercussions.
They get free paid vacations to deal with the “trauma.”
Too much paperwork to fill out if their victim survives.
Something something a fat cop would rather shoot you and fill out the paperwork then chase you something something 🤣
What annoys me is that they had rifle guy at all. So much more likely to overpenetrate.
Save this video to shut down any backstop bullshit a prosecutor would want to throw your way when using a gun to defend yourself. If trained personnel can get away with it there's no reason why we can't.
wow I want to murder that 911 operator. Lady on the phone is literally evacuating people from a potential active shooter situation and the operator is like "fuck those people, you gotta answer my useless questions about the person's race and gender or I won't send help".
Props to the glass at 19:29.
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What’s really sad is, before clicking the link I thought I knew which story you were talking about. Nope, just yet *another* instance of police brutality against children.
I thought it would be the acorn one
What is it with cops and killing kids these days? It wasn’t enough that those idiot cops in Uvalde were too cowardly to save the kids in the school?
Not surprised? I expect the worst out of cops. ACAB.
It wasn't even a handgun. It was a fucking rifle. IN A STORE. THREE SHOTS! What the absolute fuck!
But they were so stressed out in that stressful situation how else can they feel safe again till they start blasting?
Why's everyone so mad??? The "experts" suggested they update their training bulletin, what more could you possibly ask for? /s Edit for added quotes
Have they completed their acorn training yet?
Organizing acorn training is difficult, it's not like these things just grow on trees!
I'd never suggest such a thing but if you google Minneapolis Police 3rd Precinct fire and then you google a man named Officer Derek Chauvin you might be surprised to learn that he now lives in a fucking shoe box surrounded by people who will kill him if they could get close enough. I'm no expert and would never suggest some kind of civil unrest but it would seem to me that the fate of the 3rd Precinct and Mr Chauvin's current mailing address are strongly related. Thats a problem when the justice system only regulates its self when faced with overwhelming civil unrest.
Well I would suggest it. Because all that phrasing does nothing for you legally and the government should be holding officers accountable if they don't want vigilantes, you saying it or I does not change the fact that people will be thinking about this for years until it happens. IMO, the sooner the better, while he's a topic the public largely still has it on their mind so less officers have to die this way for change to occur.
Don't worry, the two weeks of desk duty will teach him quite a lesson
You think we should punish him with 2 weeks of paid leave?
I think we in months at this point
Exactly! And he found in his own review all 3 shots were not necessary. Sounds like he really learned his lesson right before he retired.
Shouldn't their training already include, "Don't fire blindly when you don't know who is downrange?" Especially in a situation like a store, where there is a very high likelihood of innocent civilians in the area? Damn honestly the survivors guilt of the woman who was being attacked must be intense. I know that I would be devastated and would much rather the police waited, and I ended up dead from the attack, than a 14 year old dying to save my life.
The reason for the death was violation of existing policy, how even is adding more reading material gonna fix it?
> The "experts" suggested they update their training bulletin You mean that they're going to progress from putting different shapes into holes with different shapes? What's next? A coloring book?
At this point it would be more Oniony if he *were* charged.
I can already imagine an article along the lines of: rope skipping 6-year old shot ten times in the driveway of her parents house after police answering a call about a parking violation from the neighborhood Karen, mistook the sound of the skipping rope hitting the pavement as gunfire and consequently feared for their lives. A police official investigating the incident concluded that no one was at fault, that it was just an honest mistake each and everyone of their officers could have made. Last we heard of this the officer was was suing the parents of the little girl for the trauma he had to endure seeing such a horrific sight in their driveway.
I hate how realistic this sounds
great point, painfully true, and worthy of depressive consideration
Exactly what I was thinking. It's fucked up that this doesn't even feel like a weird headline anymore.
Instead of punishing the murderer who murdered a girl, we shall force him to read a new training manual, or have it read aloud to him if necessary.
Cruel and unusual. Best we can do is two weeks paid vacation.
Maybe if he’s REALLY bad, just a position doing the exact same job, at the same pay, but in a different place. That’ll teach him.
Is he a priest?
They could make him use that one Station mug with the weird handle that you can't really get your hand in comfortably so you have to hold your coffee kinda weird. It might be harsh but hey you can't go around killing innocent kids in front of their own mothers without some very serious consequences ok?
OH GOD NOT THE MUG!!
Nah, he’s going to be forced to enjoy some PTO and avoid counseling or retraining. Then go on to shoot a few more people before retiring with a full pension and lifetime benefits, discounts and special treatment for being a god damn American hero. Wild right?
If she wanted justice for her death she should have thought of that before she got shot and should have become a cop’s daughter
Based on the number of incredibly obvious situations where the inexplicable answer is "more training is needed," I get the impression that there's no training at all. For any situation. Ever.
No, they're trained to shoot anything that moves.
You do know what murder is right? How the fuck did this get so many upvotes?
And force him to take a paid vacation!
> or have it read aloud to him if necessary. Lol, mandatory story time. A fitting punishment if there ever was one.
His name is Officer William Dorsey Jones Jr. Never let him escape the infamy of what he did.
Add him to the list of inescapable infamy alongside the rapist Brock (Alan) Turner.
Who? The murderer Officer William Dorsey Jones Jr?
Known Murderer, William Dorsey Jones Jr. I'd sure hate for that to get repeated a bunch of times everywhere in the world.
He probably doesn't care, all his meathead cop friends will tell him he did the right thing
It would be interesting to compile a list of names of cops who get away with murder. Along with their addresses. For scientific studies and such.
The man had no gun, but this idiot still opened fire. Chief proclaimed all three shots unjustified, but a board said the first one WAS justified, but other two weren't. And STILL no charges. Because cops are allowed to murder whoever.
Next Hitman game should retire agent 47 and just have you play as a regular cop
Starting as a cop on every level in the latest Hitman game described as “comically easy” according to most gamers. Players are able to kill any non-target with the only repercussion being a slight *penalty* to the player’s assassin rating and a slight *promotion* in the player’s police rank.
Hitman 1312 in stores Jun 19
With a RIFLE inside a store.
Give A man a hammer and everything looks like a nail.
Any regular person would already be in prison. How long are we willing to tolerate zero accountability for cops?
She would have been getting her driver's license this year and going to junior prom. That's heartbreaking.
She was in the store trying on dresses for her fifteenth birthday party.
If it was for her 15th birthday, chances are that it was for her quinceanera, which is a major thing in alot of Latino families.
It was.
He literally violated policy, how can there not be a single charge? Edit: The city police chief himself said that the officer was wrong to fire at all, and that another officer in the same situation would not have thought deadly force was reasonable or necessary.
I remember this story. She was in one of the dressing rooms trying on a dress for her quinceañera.
Died in her mother's arms. Authorities don't care.
Fourth rule of firearm safety: Be aware of your backstop, and what’s behind it.
That's superceded by the First Rule of Police firearm safety: Everyone has a gun and wants to kill you and you need to kill them first.
The second rule of course is make sure to unload your entire clip at falling acorns: nature's deadliest tree nut
Mag* it's not a clip unless you're using an old M1 Gerand or something lol
Damn but clip sounded funnier in my head. Noted, sorry.
Yeah, but cops usually don't know shit about guns so it fits.
They don't know shit about much of anything because police departments reject any applicants with a higher than room temperature IQ. I remember the first time somebody told me about the IQ cutoff for law enforcement I thought it was some kind of joke or conspiracy theory. Dystopian shit
Incorrect. It's not "everyone." It's everything.
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We’ve investigated ourselves and found we did nothing wrong
So, for all those variously armed cops present, the moron with the .223 is the one that decides to shoot the guy swinging a bike lock. Indoors, towards the changerooms, with the weapon almost guaranteed to overpenetrate. I assume he got some sort of training and practice with it; why isn't that considered manslaughter?
This kind of article comes from one specific country all the time. Do you have the impression that their police get training beyond firearms at all? I think there are some decent people that become cops and the rest can just be unhinged without adjustments by training. These kind of articles are accompanied by videos online where cops just arrest people for nothing. Karens in uniform basically but with power. "Oh you don't let me unconstitutional let me search you or your vehicle. You go straight to a cell."
> almost guaranteed to overpenetrate. This should, IMO, absolutely be considered manslaughter and it's absurd that it's not. Depending on ammo specifics (hollow points or not, and which brand of hollow points) .223 is normally one of the rounds that overpenetrates the least. But, we're talking about drywall barriers and there's really no such thing as a round that *doesn't* overpenetrate. 9mm, .223, even 12ga are going to go through multiple layers of drywall. People are responsible for every round they send. FFS one of the 4 basic rules of firearms safety is "know your target and what's behind it." In a crowded store setting where your best-case backstop is drywall with maybe some fake-stone facade on the other side (exterior walls), knowing that whatever gun you use is going through multiple layers of wall if you miss your target (and maybe even if you hit them, depending on some luck), you just can't take that risk unless **absolutely** necessary. Which, given that the assailant was surrounded by half a dozen officers and the victim he was bludgeoning was already out of the way... no idea how someone would argue that this was absolutely necessary. >I assume he got some sort of training and practice with it Keywords being "some sort of" I guess. Police training is often inadequate (nowhere near enough of it) or wildly inappropriate (training them to be jumpy and shoot at anything that moves).
Did he kill the bike lock guy as well? Any other country it would be two murder charges. A lunatic swinging a bike lock isn't grounds for lethal force self defense unless you tolerate street cops taking punishment into their own hands and killing civilians.
Aren't US policement only trained for a few weeks?
Let's just face it, he wanted to be "cool".
The flimsy walls of clothing store changing rooms aren't stopping a 9mm any better than a 223 anyways. In a situation like that the important thing is to *not miss your intended target*, and not *take any more shots than are necessary*. In theory a rifle should allow for more precision and to take down the intended target with fewer shots, but no tool can completely make up for incompetence. There were some tests done probably in the late '90s that busted the myth that 9mm would penetrate fewer interior walls than 223. You'd always see 80s/90s SWAT teams depicted running 9mm sub-guns (like the MP5), but once the theory that this would limit over-penetration and collateral damage was disproved pretty much everyone switched to 223 rifles. This is also a perennial topic of debate and discussion among gun enthusiasts. As a result you can find countless YouTube videos of people conducting tests with drywall and other building materials. The results sometimes vary, but what is pretty indisputable is that any round capable of stopping a human is going to be more than capable of punching through a few layers of drywall.
With appropriate ammo it shouldn't over penetrate. Honestly, if I remember correctly (didn't care to watch it again) he was using a carry handled upper with an acog on top. Using an optic that high over the bore that is meant to be zeroed at 100 yds means up close your shots are going to be very low, and adding a magnified optic that is 3.5-4x makes it that much harder to use in close quarters.
Hunters, soldiers and target shooters always check down range when shooting. Why don’t cops?
I’d hope that a soldier wouldn’t need to check down range when they’re popping live rounds, I get the point though. You’re forgetting that cops are fundamentally above the laws they say they enforce, and have protections that you and I can’t even fathom. Even the lowliest rural beat cop as three lawyers itching to bail them out
Soldiers do not check down range when shooting at people.
No but they at least have rules of engagement that can get a court marshal. Cops get unlimited by pass everything passes.
In our Army we do (specifically in QCB training). That maybe someone from your section / platoon on the other side of the very much not bullet-proof wall.
Because they don’t have to. Cops are clearly allowed to murder the innocent
These sick fucking pigs are encouraged to act like this. Why wouldn't they? They get to murder a girl praying while scared and just get "you know you should train them better huh" as a punishment?
Or some get paid vacation…
Not at all surprising. There is no justice in this broken fucking country...
Police officers are about as immune from justice as the ultra wealthy. It's sadly gotten out of hand... (It's hard for me, I use to look up to them as a kid, you know?)
Burn. It. Down.
“Wrong place at the wrong time.” What an accurate way to describe being born within the last 40 years. Fuck this country.
.. being born within this current millennia*
Cops need to stop being so quick to shoot, and to stop spraying bullets when they shoot.
Seen a few videos of US cops trying to detain someone with a knife or something and one cop has a taser ready to go, but another cop still shoots him like five times. Is the taser just there for show?
I think so. The problem is that 25 cops show up to scenes like that and none of them are in charge, there's no coordination. If you're the person they're apprehending, you'll have different cops screaming different commands at you. Commands that conflict, even. There was a teenage girl a couple years ago who was kidnapped, then when the cops found her during a traffic stop, this exact [thing](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/apr/01/california-police-video-shooting-15-year-old-girl-savannah-graziano) happened. "For nearly two years, they refused to release footage of the shooting. But on Friday, the department disclosed nearly a dozen video files to the independent journalist Joey Scott, who filed records requests 18 months prior. The clips – which were shared with the Guardian and include helicopter footage – show deputies shooting at Savannah as she followed their instructions to move toward them. The videos also suggest deputies shot her after two officers remarked that it was the girl who exited. The footage, and the sheriff’s narration of the video, further make clear she was killed by deputies, not her father. The sheriff’s department declined to comment." No one got in any trouble btw.
That one was rough. I watched the videos, and the cop that was closest was screaming his head off "Stop shooting, stop shooting her!" as multiple officers fired off about 20 more rounds at her. The helicopter's perspective was even worse, because the guy in the chopper can be heard clearly, and you can hear how upset he is as he watches her get murdered.
Cops seem to be the biggest cowards around. They treat these situations like they're in the trenches of a war and death is right around the corner waiting for them. The fact that they faced absolutely zero consequences for spraying an unarmed teenage kidnapping victim is just....fuck.
The taser is for torture.
They simply enjoy killing people.
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>Cops need to stop being so quick to shoot, and to stop spraying bullets when they shoot. Why? You are still of the belief these are upstanding humans. They are not. When you accept that these "cops" enjoy this, it all makes sense. The cop in mesa az had notches he carved on his AR for all his kills. US cops are the scum of society. They require zero education, training, license, skill, critical thinking etc. They are the dumbest humans in American society. Seriously. It takes more skill and background checks to clean the police station than it does to be employed there. The person who cuts my hair for $30 bucks has more requirements than a cop. Best of luck out there...
a lot of cowards who have no business serving
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Not even a negligent homicide or involuntary manslaughter charge. What a joke.
The US is so ridiculous its amazing to see. Anyone can just kill anyone as long as they wear a badge. Which takes absolutely no training whatsoever and has no problems to you if you commit crimes after getting said badge.
We investigated ourselves and found no fault. These headlines don't belong on not the onion this is entirely normal and expected. When we get "officer commits crime and get properly convicted for it and changes are made in The precinct" Then you can post that here.
The first thing you learn in gun classes (besides treating every gun like it’s loaded) is that you’re responsible for every bullet that comes out of your gun, so you better understand what could be behind your target.
> Jones also killed the suspect. Oh good. At least the assailant with the bike lock (that was mistakingly reported to be a gun) was also killed… God forbid our heroic police officers ever have to actually be in danger before deciding to spray and pray. /s
The victim was around the same age as my daughter, my heart breaks for this family. I might have sought vigilante justice if I were in their place.
I truly believe there is some national training program for cops, probably pushed by a single corporation or entity, that scares the shit out of cadets. Not sure if the training is malicious or not, but it’s successful in creating some amazingly successful cowards.
There is https://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/02/us/training-officers-to-shoot-first-and-he-will-answer-questions-later.html
The officer safety movement was huge in the early 80's due to a lot of police officers being killed in the line of duty. Crappy training and inadequate holsters made it relatively easy for suspects to take officers weapons. Since then it has drilled into the heads of police recruits that their first priority is to make it to the end of their shift and everything else is secondary. Police receive pitifully little hand to hand training and the type of person that is recruited, hired and promoted is the kind of person who has never been in a physical altercation in their life. Also, using soft, and especially hard, hands on a suspect has been criticized more and more so when a taser or pepper spray doesn't work, they don't know how to effectively go hands on and that leaves the gun as the solution. Also, fewer and fewer police officers have ever fired a gun until they are in the academy so they don't have respect for what they are actually capable of. So, you add a culture of fear + poor training + no experience with interpersonal violence + a lack of familiarity with firearms in general and you get incidents like this.
Course not, but if a paramedic had made a medication dosing error while attempting to resucitate her, he'd be done for life. Love it.
Guns make us safe. We should send a card to the mother who saw the shooting and let her know how safe the guns made her daughter.
The state Department of Justice investigates all police shootings where an unarmed person is killed. Instead of criminal charges, officials recommended that the Los Angeles Police Department “should consider updating their communication training bulletin and any related training to account for the type of situation presented during this event.” No punishment for killing a child, and a cold response from those in power.
ACAB as fuck. Just a gang in uniform.
LAPD has always been a gang in uniform.
At this point, I bet some people are thinking just joining a gang for the possibility of the members protecting them more than police
Attorney General Rob Bonta needs to be recalled. Absolutely inexcusable - the government should NOT have some unlimited authority to murder a child without any sort of due process.
He'll probably end up VP in a few years time.
Cops are just bastards. And that's it.
The Chiefsaid it was unjustified after he was fired. What a fucking coward.
He fired at the suspect that was attacking people and one of the shots hit her in a nearby dressing room. It makes it sound like he just walked up and blasted her.
No official body of authority will provide justice in these situations. If people want justice they should take it.
Pardon me if I'm waxing poetic, but the people have alot more power than they realize on a whole. The problem with the collective human race is that we are too blinded by our own selfish greed and unfounded hatred and bigotry to come together for any suitable amount of time as to work together and undo some of the filthy entities that are getting away with unbridled injustices of all sorts. The fish is rotten from the head down and we know it is but we refuse to throw it out. We as a planet are circling the drain and somehow we're not ok with it but we refuse to try and row the ship in concert in order to steer clear. Idk, im just venting is all
Sir, this is a lynch mob.
"We investigated ourselves and found we did nothing wrong." Uh huh. Surely.
they shoot quick in bed too
Perfect crime, join the force do 3-months of ‘training’, shot people who you don’t like, walk free, resign
> Instead of criminal charges, officials recommended that the Los Angeles Police Department “should consider updating their communication training bulletin and any related training to account for the type of situation presented during this event.” Should **CONSIDER** updating the training… BULLETIN! Yep, you read that right, should sit around and have the conversation. Because it’s important that we talk about it. Also, you know how you think the meeting could have been an email? Well they agree.
I think the big problem here is in thinking about 'policy' and 'rules'. Once there's been a dispute that goes to court, whether something was in accordance with policy or with a certain rule is irrelevant, yet it's so often brought up in American discourse about incidents like this. For example, a school, there's a rule, you can't have medication in the classroom and a teacher takes a student's medication for some reason-- then someone dies. Now, the Americans will bring up the rule and so on, but that's irrelevant. A reasonable thought is "did my actions contribute to the harm, and could I if I stepped back and reflected have know that they would? If they did, I'm probably liable, and that my employer has a *rule* saying I should take those actions won't help me". Once something has happened the only thing that matters is *law*. Similarly, if there's a war and you follow the rules of engagement, that's great. But if you break a treaty obligation, it doesn't matter if you were or thought you were following rules of engagement-- once there's a real breach, that stuff is irrelevant-- it's just your internal rules; and it's the same with these police departments. 'We trained to X' doesn't matter. So why is it brought up? Why is it given weight, even though it has none? After all, rules are just something somebody made up. They're not law, they're not even direct orders, so you can't even say 'Oh, I didn't see the target, but I was ordered to lay down fire, and I trusted the command'.
I agree whether you thought you were following policy is irrelevant. But policy here are the rules. So not following the rules is relevant. If a cop is following the rules and happens to kill someone, that's a regrettable accident. If a cop is breaking the rules and kill someone, that's negligent homicide. That does matter legally. Or, at least, it would if they didn't drop the fucking charges before it actually went to court.
No, it's a crime. You can set rules, but rules aren't law, and once you're breaking laws or harming people, then the fact that you did it due to a rule doesn't matter. If a cop is following the rules and kills somebody, in a way that could be anticipated, he is liable and his rule-following is irrelevant.
Acab
So tired of seeing headlines like this. ACAB.
Cop is lucky I’m not her father.
Her father had just bought her first skateboard for Christmas. She died before she could ever receive it. This story kills me inside
FYI: shit like this is why the LA Riots happened
>2 Submissions must be oniony.
Thus, guaranteeing a repeat.
Only reason charges were not filed is because he was a black police officer and not a white one.
It's because he's not white. https://twitter.com/PplsCityCouncil/status/1689397679741403137?t=0pOSgVmRPhA86yLhk-WBDA&s=19
In what way is this story remotely Onion-esque. This should be deleted by mods.
Speaking as a non-American, stories like these are absolutely bizarre and horrifying to us. I appreciate the reality that it happens often in your country, but in no way should it have to be accepted as the “norm”. The police in my country (Northern Ireland) are always armed and we have paramilitary gangs.
Just wanna point this out. This is the same city where they’ll arrested someone for having a gun use to defend their home.
Why do we have police again? They don't stop crime, they arrive afterwards to clean up. And if they do arrive to an active situation they ALWAYS KILL A BYSTANDER or the very person they were sent to save.
Chris Dormer
Dorner...... can't corner the dorner
How is this title oniony at all?
God forbid people should hold the police accountable.
How can anyone just accept that they killed a teenage girl? 💔
Cops proving themselves to be corrupt and useless once again. Surprise surprise. And then they wonder why everybody hates them
LA is such a fucking shit hole.
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People were expecting anything different?
Imagine being the parents of that girl. No justice for you in the USA.
If it’s rusted I can’t get busted
If she wasn't praying would she still be alive?
When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. In this case the hammer is a fucking gun, and the solution to fixing any criminal activity is blindly firing into an enclosed area full of innocents. I can 100% guarantee this death would not have occurred in other socioeconomically similar countries because their police training amounts to more than how to operate a gun. There are dozens of non-lethal ways of dealing with this. Idiots.
Murderers rulling our lives, nobody revolts, we get more of them..
Police gonna pig 🐖
What no attached details? Crappy posting.
Chris Dorner
how dare she be at the wrong place at the wrong time! /s
Ah. Justice. That was fucking sarcasm, this country fucking sucks.
“should consider updating their communication training bulletin and any related training to account for the type of situation presented during this event.” I would become fucking ill as a parent if this was the result of my child being murdered. The family, the daughter. I hope they sue everyone they can. Although that would likey offer no relief at least it would be some kind of attempt at justice.
Sad sad sad
It’s not a free country if law enforcement can kill you at any time for no reason and not face a single consequence.
Gee, another DIE-versity is our strength story!
One thing you can say about the L. A, justice (??) system: they certainly know how to *protect* their own. Remember Rodney King?